Author Topic: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?  (Read 54648 times)

Quantum

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Hi Nas,

Sorry if the "free lunch" expression has sounded inappropriate to you - this English expression may have a more negative connotation than what my French mind thought.  Moreover, it wasn't suppose to appear twice in my post, that's what happens when I write and have not much time to read back my post.


Did you take a brief look at the reference I gave you, and did you take a look at some interesting webpages coming up with the search I have mentioned ?  I went back to these results and spotted a few, and read a bit, and some are well written and useful:

http://autoimmune-paleo.com/what-inflammation-does-to-your-brain/ :  it talks about the effect on the brain of systemic inflammation.  The author talks about her brain fog problem and how she handles it.   Sounds a lot like what some POISers share on the forum.

http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/En/HealthAZ/ConditionsandDiseases/InflammatoryConditions/Pages/Antibody-mediated-.aspx :  about Antibody-mediated inflammatory brain disorders, a rather rare cause of specific types of encephalitis

A well written scientific article about peripheral immune reaction causing an immune reaction in the brain: http://www.dana.org/Publications/ReportOnProgress/Consequences_of_the_Inflamed_Brain/ 

Well, this could go on for a while. And they are all worthy of being read and understood.  But, yes, we lack some research about the specifics of POIS, like what is the antigen, what cytokines go up first, what is the cascade of immune events taking place, and so on.  By knowing some of these, we could target directly those immune events, and block the the inflammatory response before it becomes systemic.  For now, we do it using empirical experiments with a variety of drugs, vitamins, natural products, diet adjustments and lifestyle adjustments.  But I do think it is better than nothing, having those different methods to be tried, and collectively, they all learn us something about POIS ( because there is a reason why they are effective at reducing the symptoms).

 


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Nas

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Yeah, I'm sorry didn't read about the articles you posted to me, but I read the lady with the brain fog one and yes, she has our same problem.
So I was thinking how do people treat an inflammation in the brain ? should we use the typical encephalitis treatment such as acetaminophen (Tylenol, others), ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin IB, others) and naproxen sodium (Aleve, others) ? Did some people get positive experiances with these types of medication ?
Also, like I'm not an expert in the medical field or anything but isn't inflammation something inevitable ? like there is no that we can stop the inflammation process in the body ?
I'm sorry if I'm raining down on you with questions btw, you can answer when ever you want, take your time.

Quantum

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No problem for the questions, Nas, I am not working today, and its a autumn day, here, quite cold, and dark.
About anti-inflammatory drugs succes for POISers, you should read Dirkstar recent post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2383.msg20048#msg20048 .  He gets good results, but stomach irritation is limiting his use of Ibuprofen. 

You will also read, in the same post, about the interesting insight a neurologist had about his condition, years ago.


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Nas

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Hello, Quantum.
A very interesting update, so yeasterday I masturbated then afterwards in about 4 hours, I went to a Nurologist and told him about me having an auto-immune disease. He gave me an EEG for a potential inflammation in the brain and the result came out clear, I had no nothing.
So as usual the doctor asumed that my symptoms are psychological and gave  me cipralex ( Escitalopram ) and some vitamens. Knowing I missed class for it I was very disapointed for the result. But given the fact that the result came clear, does this mean that we do not suffer from brain inflammation ?

Quantum

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Hello, Quantum.
A very interesting update, so yeasterday I masturbated then afterwards in about 4 hours, I went to a Nurologist and told him about me having an auto-immune disease. He gave me an EEG for a potential inflammation in the brain and the result came out clear, I had no nothing.
So as usual the doctor asumed that my symptoms are psychological and gave  me cipralex ( Escitalopram ) and some vitamens. Knowing I missed class for it I was very disapointed for the result. But given the fact that the result came clear, does this mean that we do not suffer from brain inflammation ?

Interesting initiative form your part, Nas.  First, I would like to know, did you have POIS symptoms at the time of the test, and if so, which ones ?  Did you feel that you were sleepy, and cognition was slowed down, like when drowsy ?

What is your usual time of symptoms onset after O ?

An EEG is very non-specific, it can only shows a slowing down of the brainwaves or abnormal pattern, as in epilepsy.  It cannot, in itself, show inflammation,   It will show an abnormal functioning of the brain , like in the case of the meningitis, but this is a far more severe state than in POIS, where patient are heavily affected, and deeply confused, or near a coma state.  I have not enough experience with EEG results to tell if they can detect the level of brain dysfunction present in POIS.  If you are very very slowed down, and really confused, like in easily detectable encephalopathies, it will show on the EEG.  But what if your brain is just slower than usual, and your emotions a less stable than usual ? I do not know if this would show on a EEG. If your are not in a real knock out state, it may be necessary to have a "before" and "after", to see some slowing down of the wave pattern.  And that is not easy, because if you are in an active state, and than just sit down and meditate for 10 minutes, you will see a slowing down of the waves, and that is not POIS.  So, I have no clear idea on how to use an EEG in POIS, it could take weeks of testing with many subjects to see its usefulness.  I would rather see measurement of different inflammation markers in the blood, like C-reactive protein, or IL-1 or IL-6, or TNF-alpha, or others, as an easier way to go, and I hope it is what Waldinger is currently doing.

I do hope we can come with an objective test for POIS, but there is no test up to date.  Even if current tests, and maybe that includes EEG, do not detect anything abnormal, we all, poisers, do know very well that something is not normal.  We just have to wait to find what tests will be useful and show it clearly.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 02:51:50 PM by Quantum »
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certainlypois2

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what about the type of mri that is done for Multiple Sclerosis,
Also will  fmri test show if there is inflammation or cell damage.

Nas

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Yes, I was suffering from POIS at that time.. So that's very interesting I also didn't think that a weak inflammation would show up in an EEG but the doctor probably didn't want take tests any further.
And btw I have the tests papers wanna see them ? I can upload them somewhere.

Quantum

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what about the type of mri that is done for Multiple Sclerosis,
Also will  fmri test show if there is inflammation or cell damage.

Hi CP2,

the fMRI in multiple sclerosis shows how unusual areas of the brain are solicited for specific tasks, indirectly showing that the usual area as been affected by the disease, and that the brain plasticity as allowed to find an alternative pathway to do the task( see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17425733 ).  But in POIS, I think we do not have any permanent brain damage - after a few days, we come back to normal.

MRI in general will show where lesions can be found in the brain, and what part do not functions properly.  One's can only deduced that this part not functioning properly is affected by inflammation.  You cannot see it directly, like when you have a swollen knee  ( not to my knowledge, though, I am not a neurologist - there may be cases where it is possible ).

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Quantum

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Yes, I was suffering from POIS at that time.. So that's very interesting I also didn't think that a weak inflammation would show up in an EEG but the doctor probably didn't want take tests any further.
And btw I have the tests papers wanna see them ? I can upload them somewhere.

Hi Nas,

So, we have deducted the same - the degree of inflammation in POIS may not be high enough so the corresponding dysfunctions shows in the brainwaves patterns. 

About your results, I have not the necessary training to interpret raw EEG datas.  I know very well the different EEG frequency bands, and their meaning, but reading a EEG output needs an trained eye.  You can take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography#Normal_activity to see what a normal graph looks like.  What I suspect that happens in POIS is a general slowing down of the waves, so that even in waking state, there will be more theta waves ( 4-7Hz), alpha waves  8-12 Hz) and low beta waves ( 12-15), and less of the waves associated with cognitive functions,  mid beta (15-18Hz) and high beta ( 18-38Hz) and very low gamma ( 38-70Hz - often not measured at all).


In my own case, which is not the norm in POIS, I suspect mid and high beta are spared ( I have no cognitive symptoms), but theta waves should go on a frenzy , and alpha may be weakened ( like if the connection between my rational mind and my strong emotions is being cut, and I go reckless like a young, unhibited 3 years old.... not the kind of maturity my spouse is looking for in a 51 years old adult!).  But that's only pure speculation, I do not have a EEG  ( but I have already considered buying one of those new personal EEG sensor devices that are not so costy now).



« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 11:50:55 AM by Quantum »
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Nas

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You think I can conivince the doctor to take different tests maybe ? Or it's just not worth the extra spending ?


Nas

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Hello Quantum,
So I was wondering for the possible treatment of a small brain inflammation that are not anti-viral or anti-bacterial. What would you take for that ?

Quantum

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Hi NAs, I am leaving for work in a few minutes, but here are some comments:

I looked at your EEG resutls, and the Dr was looking for seizures ( manifestation of epilepsy) or focal anomalies ( some local neurons groups not running properly).  He found none.  But we have no comments if there was a general slowing down of the brainwaves  ( only a comment on alphawaves, which are slow waves).  I do not think the problem in POIS is focal, in just a specific region, I think it hinders brain as a whole, something is affecting its basic functioning, all over the brain, or in large areas, but we have not much data to verify this, of course.


For the kind of brain inflammation I think there is in POIS, I use turmeric( curcuma passes thtough the blood-brian barrier)) taken with some black pepper, rosmarinic acid ( like in rosemary), milk thistle, and also alpha-lipoic acid, an excellent antioxidant that easily passes into the brain  ( what is antioxiadant is antiinfalmmatory as well).  When my stomach is ok, general NSAIDS like ibuprofen or naproxen are also good.  You can also check the composition of my pre-pack, almost everything in it is beneficial against inflammation.   By combining two or three things, in safe doses, results are better - there is no single substance to date that seems to be efficient alone in POIS. 

Ask your health advisor about what you intend to use, of course.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 08:29:21 AM by Quantum »
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Nas

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I was wondering though what a medical professional would perscribe for brain inflammation ? like, are there medications for non-viral, non-bacterial inflammation ?

Nas

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These are my scan graphs just for the sake of refrence they won't do any better stuck at my phone, maybe an actual doctor can see them and have some comments about them.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1uR2kQKGjb5cmhZYnpZaDZtaE0

Quantum

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I was wondering though what a medical professional would perscribe for brain inflammation ? like, are there medications for non-viral, non-bacterial inflammation ?


Hi Nas,

then, you will be interested in this article:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3772457


Recently, at the old NSF forum, a medical student wrote that taking dexamethasone ( dose not specified) when POIS symptoms appears reduces severity and duration of his POIS symptoms.  Dexamethasone is a potent corticosteroids, with many side effects, and is availaible on prescription only.  Oral corticosteroids are often use by doctors to stop flares or attacks of an auto-immune disease, like RA.  Some POIS sufferers have reported here too.  Member stevennoc has reported an initial success with dexamethasone here :  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3772457  , unfortunately, no follow up after this 2014-09 post. 

There are mentions of prednisone on this forum ( use the search box on upper left of the poiscenter homepage).

Mentions too on the old forum, type "prednisone pois site:http://thenakedscientists.com" in a search engine.

The same 2 searches will yields some results by using dexamethasone as search term .
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 10:52:15 AM by Quantum »
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Nas

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Hello Quantum, how's everything.
So I was wondering when you are on POIS, what's better ? to stay away from socializing or to keep socializing ? Because I feel like I'm a different person when talking to some one while on POIS but I just can't miss out on more lectures in class anymore but at the same time I don't like to be unable to speak properly to the prof. when under POIS.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 07:59:15 PM by Nas »

Quantum

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Hi Nas,

I had a wonderful Holidays time, and I hope you had the same.

About social contact while being in a POIS "attack", I think that timing of release is very important.  Like if you are studying or working, you have to know your usual time span limit between 2 NEs, and plan a voluntary release at a time you will have a few days to recover, instead of risking a NE at a very inappropriate time.   It will be better still if you can take a pre-pack or something specific before release, that you know will lower the severity and duration of your symptoms.

If you still have absolutely no anti-POIS method that works for you,  and have to go about your life while in POIS, well, I suggest you take note of your questions and ask them at the next lecture, when out of POIS, rather than while in POIS, if you have a severe brain fog and have a hard time speaking with clarity.  Don't be too hard on yourself, and find some strategies to make your life easier. 

With your friends, it's up to you, but if you think you might say things or have behaviors that may harm your friendship, it is better to find some excuses to go back home and rest, rather than multiplying your problems because you have hurted your girlfriend or one of your friends.   There have been time I would stay away from my spouse for a day or two, because the anxious and exhausted madman I would become would have say very regrettable things.   So, it also depend on how severe is your current POIS attack - when the symptoms are less severe, it is possible to keep social contacts without hurting anyone or without appearing phased out.

I wish you a happy new year, with the less possible POIS days !
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 08:41:18 PM by Quantum »
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Nas

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Happy new year to you too Quamtum. I also had a wonderful time with my family and loved ones. The thing is I had sex with a girl and I fucked my self really bad on this one with POIS. I shouldn't have done it right now but I just couldn't help it !! oh well.
I am though still with no actual medication to help me ease my POIS. I'm thinking of buying Doxepin, after the last post on this forum with the guy who tried it and worked for him and the guy who tested for ALA he also said that tricyclic anti-depressed lessened his symtoms. Currently I have no Pre-Pack that I can take but if I had to make one Ibuprofin would definitly be part of it.

Quantum

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Hi Nas!

Glad you had a good time with your family.

Sex drive is not always  easy to manage.  It's natural to be attracted to sex, what is not normal is the POIS we have.  So don't be to hard on yourself.

I have added to my previous post, while you wrote your answer.  I don't know what part exactly I added on my edit, so just take a look.

Take care!

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