Author Topic: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?  (Read 39358 times)

Quantum

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Hi Nas,

I totally understand what you mean. 

In this case, go very slowly, and make a short test only once in a while, when you know you are due for a NE anyway, and that you will have a couple day off to recover.


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Nas

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I agree, easier said than done though.

Nas

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Ok, so for an update.
It's been 5 days since I started taking Loratadin daily and today after taking 2x25 mg benadryl before O it definetly did not work.
I really don't think the Anti-histamine method is giving any benifit so I don't see a reason to stay on it.
Also that checks off any connection to histamine with the cognative symtoms of POIS which means anti-histamine did not stop the reaction towards semen and it did not stop the post reaction after that, that happenes in the brain.
Also, It seems that for most people who have gained benefit from it mostly suffer physical symptoms, which I can see why because the loratadin did lessen some physical issues I slightly suffer from like back pain and muscle pain.

certainlypois2

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Ok, so for an update.
It's been 5 days since I started taking Loratadin daily and today after taking 2x25 mg benadryl before O it definetly did not work.
I really don't think the Anti-histamine method is giving any benifit so I don't see a reason to stay on it.
Also that checks off any connection to histamine with the cognative symtoms of POIS which means anti-histamine did not stop the reaction towards semen and it did not stop the post reaction after that, that happenes in the brain.
Also, It seems that for most people who have gained benefit from it mostly suffer physical symptoms, which I can see why because the loratadin did lessen some physical issues I slightly suffer from like back pain and muscle pain.
From my experience you have to use it more than five days, read happy2's post on thenakedscientist. He used it for a month before he did any orgasm and now uses it everyday. zyrtec  not Claritin got rid of all his symptoms. Warning  zyrtec made me very  sleepy for the first week.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 05:12:47 PM by certainlypois2 »

Nas

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I don't understand why I need to keep taking it for a month ? if something works then it should show it from the first try. Only if it has to build up chemically, which I don't see why a histamine has to build to show any effect.

Nas

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Hi, Quantum.
Just a question, does injecting ones semen under the skin cause allergy ?

Nas

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I'm starting to think that we might be having a leak in our urethra that cause the blood to be in contact with the sperm.

Quantum

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Hi, Quantum.
Just a question, does injecting ones semen under the skin cause allergy ?

Hi Nas,

Yes, it can, but there are conflicting reports about the value and meaning of these tests, because it seems there is no direct link between having a skin reaction to own semen and having POIS.

See that interesting excerpt from a Chinese study on POIS at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=426.msg15859#msg15859 .  At the end of this post by Colm, you find this excerpt of the study:

"One interesting finding of the current (Chinese) study was that three healthy control individuals had positive skin reactions to autologous seminal fluid. Their responses were more pronounced than that of the affected patient. The IC (titer 1:10 and 1:100) was grade 2+ positive, while the SPT was negative in three healthy control individuals.'

So, as to now, skin reaction to own semen do not seem to be a reliable test for POIS, because healthy subjects with no POIS can have this reaction too.  I think the only thing that it shows is that it is not natural to have semen injected under the skin and that it can lead to some local irritation, even with those with no POIS ;)  ( of course, some POIS subjects have experimented POIS symptoms too after such intradermal injections, not only local redness and iching)

Prick tests and contact test - like just spreading your semen on an area of your skin, has been negative even in some POIS subjects (meaning, no reaction), so they are not conclusive neither.  I, myself, have absolutely no redness and no itching if I let my semen in contact with my skin for a prolonged period of time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a case of a POIS sufferer that have no reaction with skin injection, it does not seem to be a specific and reliable test.

Like I said after commenting a recent review article dy Dr Waldinger, I think the days of intradermal autologous semen testing and desensitization by autologous semen are now over, and that Dr Waldinger is heading his work on POIS in another direction, that is, finding the antigen in semen/prostatic fluid that may initiate the hypersensitivity reaction he suspects is at the base of POIS.  He have clearly mentioned that desens is a very time consuming and expensive method, and that insurance companies do not accept to pay for it ( which was a way to say, I guess, that he will no longer doing any of this).  In addition, he seems to be evolving his conception of POIS more to an auto-immune disease ( type IV hypersensitivity reaction) than just purely a type I , allergy, hypersensitivity reaction, and auto-immune diseases are not diagnosed with skin testing and not treated with desens.   




I'm starting to think that we might be having a leak in our urethra that cause the blood to be in contact with the sperm.

Yes, having a defect in the inner "coating" of the urethra might be part of the problem.  This has already been discussed, and is part of the possible factors leading to POIS. 

But it seems to be some other component of the semen than sperm, because vasectomy do not cure POIS.  It proves that if there is an antigen, it may come from prostatic fluid, Cowper's gland, seminal glands, but not from the testis.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 09:46:36 AM by Quantum »
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Nas

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Yes, abseloutly and I myself didn't experiance any rash on my skin, but as you said when it enteres the blood it's a different subject.
Which is why I might suspect a leak in the urethra or something simmilar.

certainlypois2

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I don't understand why I need to keep taking it for a month ? if something works then it should show it from the first try. Only if it has to build up chemically, which I don't see why a histamine has to build to show any effect.

I am not sure  why may be quantum can respond better to that, the only thing i can think is histamine release is  continues for several days. For those of us with  constant pois like me and happy2 extra histamine is released everyday for whatever reason.

Nas

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Hi Quantum
Just another update, I tried abstaining from masturbating for 3 weeks and kept taking loratadin before sleep. Yesterday and the day before I ran out of loratadin, and today I got a wet dream and I didn't experiance not even the slightest of relief.
It looks like abstaining for me could only last for 2-3 weeks before getting NE, any good advice on how to avoid NE cause I think I talked to someone in FB group who said that he doesn't get any NE, which probably what motivated me to abstain.

Quantum

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Hi Quantum
Just another update, I tried abstaining from masturbating for 3 weeks and kept taking loratadin before sleep. Yesterday and the day before I ran out of loratadin, and today I got a wet dream and I didn't experiance not even the slightest of relief.
It looks like abstaining for me could only last for 2-3 weeks before getting NE, any good advice on how to avoid NE cause I think I talked to someone in FB group who said that he doesn't get any NE, which probably what motivated me to abstain.


Hi, Nas.

Is 3 weeks your usual "delay" between 2 NE, or do you think taking loratadine has help to extend the no-NE period? 

There are many factors in NE prevention and control.   Be sure to read carefully this thread, if not done yet:  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2151.msg17197#msg17197 .   There are even recent addition, like dream awareness/control of the outcome of the dream through lucid dreaming, control of dreams.

Personally, I avoid anything that will build up tension, be it sexual tension or emotional tension.  So I avoid looking at attractive women, or sexy photos, or the like, and not in a frustrated manner, but just in peace and in line with my own decision to not build up any tension.   Dreams are build in part with the leftover thoughs of the day, so avoiding sexual thoughts during the day helps in NE avoidance, for sure.   

I also avoid becoming intense in any emotion.  Intense anger, or sadness, or frustration, will search for a release, and NE may be this release.  So the less tense I am, emotionally, the longer I will extend the no-NE period. 

Even If I have a quite reliable relief method, not ejaculation at all is still the best way to stay myself and feel good.  So it worth it to manage NE and lower them as much as possible.  Weird concept for non-POISers, but obvious way to go for any of us!

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Nas

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Actually I'm quiet curuios, I think my NE used to occur for about 2 weeks of no masturbation, but I was suprised that I did actually stay for nearly 3 weeks ( I should've mentioned this but it's not exactly three weeks it's more like 11 days ) but yeah maybe the loratadine helped somehow ?
Also considering switching to cetrizine cause no body seem to be effected at all by loratadine around here.
Anyways I don't think I had any emotional or sexual reactions yesterday but I think my OCD may have caused some emotional tension, which I don't think that'll be able to do much for.

Nas

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Hello Quamtum, I was wondering, can we describe our lack of ability to talk and socially react ( one of the brain fog symptoms ) " expressive aphasia " or am I just going too deep for this one ? If so can all the brain involved symptoms be described as Focal CNS ? what do you know about Focal CNS and its relation to POIS ? Just a bot curious for this one.

Quantum

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Hello Quamtum, I was wondering, can we describe our lack of ability to talk and socially react ( one of the brain fog symptoms ) " expressive aphasia " or am I just going too deep for this one ? If so can all the brain involved symptoms be described as Focal CNS ? what do you know about Focal CNS and its relation to POIS ? Just a bot curious for this one.

Hi Nas,

Yes, for some there seems to be expressive aphasia, or at least a type of aphasia ( for the difference between the many types, there is a good chart here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphasia#Types )

For others, there is also another type of communication disorder, like slurred speech ( for detailed list of the different communication disorders, including speech disorders, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_disorder ).  They can understand , but they have pronunciation problems or stuttering, like if they have coordination/control problem over the muscles used to pronounce words.   It is not unlike coordination problems and clumsiness reported by many members, for daily activities and sport alike.

My take on this, and I have already written about this, is that the generalized inflammatory response that manifests in a POIS attack also affect the brain.  This inflammation in the brain causes symptoms of a type of low-grade encephalitis, that may cause more inflammation in certain area than others, leading to focal CNS symptoms.  For comparison, take a look at this list of encephalitis symptoms: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/encephalitis/basics/symptoms/CON-20021917 .  Granted, we do not have the most severe sym^potms on the list, and do not lose consciousness or have seizure, but those are hallmarks of severe encephalitis.  As I said, I think POIS symptoms, those related to cluster 3 and 4 ( cognitive, emotional, focal CNS symptoms, as you say) are related to an acute, mild to moderate encephalitis, that resolve in a certain number of days  What do you think about this hypothesis ?

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Nas

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Yes, this one is the one that I mostly believe in, but I don't get why the brain would inflammate in the first place, the inflammation if occured should happen where the semen was in contact with the urethra but as we see sometimes the whole body get's attacked. Also the fact that POIS is not a normal allergy, like the semen does not cause alergic reaction if it was in contact in the skin, it only cause it when it gets ejaculated, is also kind of wierd.

Quantum

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Nas, Waldinger himself, the doctor who first talked about POIS as an allergy to semen, has abandoned that allergy view, and is now describing POIS as "a systemic auto-immune reaction expressing itself in multiple physical and mental problems" ( http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19956#msg19956 ).  So, no, it is not a simple allergy like a Type 1 hypersensitivity reaction, it is far more complex than that.

If you want to get a clearer view as to why an immune reaction from a local point in the prostate area can trigger symptoms in the brain, you have to study a bit more the immune system, its complexity, its interactions with the hormonal system and the whole body, and see that there is a domino effect at play in this.  That is part of why it is usually day 2 that is the worst for symptoms severity - the cascading immune reations have been getting momentum for 24 hours.  Just like in many cold and flu.

Those are my opinion on POIS, though, not everybody agree with this, but I am open to discussion on any hypothesis anyway.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 12:06:54 PM by Quantum »
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Nas

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What I wanted you to say, is that, if I gone to a doctore and told him that I have brain inflammation, how am I going to justify it ? is it caused by some bacteria, viruses or something, or that the brain is just inflammating by it self ? I would also like to know specifcly the mechanics of how the brain could inflammate without an external cause  and how common is it in the medical field.

Quantum

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What I wanted you to say, is that, if I gone to a doctore and told him that I have brain inflammation, how am I going to justify it ? is it caused by some bacteria, viruses or something, or that the brain is just inflammating by it self ? I would also like to know specifcly the mechanics of how the brain could inflammate without an external cause  and how common is it in the medical field.


"The exact cause of encephalitis is often unknown, but the most commonly diagnosed cause is a viral infection. Bacterial infections and noninfectious inflammatory conditions also may cause encephalitis." (from http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/encephalitis/basics/causes/con-20021917 ).  "Is often unknown", so you have to rely on hypothesis.

Here, dig this, if you are interest in a well-researched hypothesis in other diseases that I believe is possibly at play in POIS:  http://fr.slideshare.net/adonissfera/tryptophan-and-madness


Other than that, you will find no free lunch about brain inflammation for your doctor appointment, in order to make his POIS basic education, and will have to search the net by yourself, using search terms like "auto-immune brain inflammation " - I tried it and many results came up, indeed.  Many sounds very interesting.  You can even type those search terms directly in PUBMED, they will lead you to tons of scientific references.


I doubt, though, that your doctor will listen to any explanation about something he never heard about and do not exist in medicine textbooks and is not talked about in medicine schools.  Before you end your "presentation", he will either say he has nothing to offer you, or is not interested in searching for this condition he has no clue about, or will refer you to psychiatrist, judging you are simply a bad case of somatization coming from mental issues ( that happened often, to many POIS sufferers).  He may order lots of blood tests and other exams before choosing one of these 3 options, but these tests will all come back normal, as with any POIS sufferers  ( at the exception of a small number having low testosterone, like Demo, who is relieved by TRT ).



 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 05:35:02 PM by Quantum »
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Nas

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I wasn't looking for freelunch with the doctor or anything I was just waiting for you to tell me that " the cause of inflammation is often unknown " that's the answer I was looking for.
Well, I guess you're right POIS is fairly new and it doesn't even have enough researches so that the medical world can even consider it, even though I really wish that someone in the medical field came to help, it's not exactly easy for someone to just look for a cure to a really rare disease that has been only discovered since only 10 years and not having his education in medicalfield about it.