wiped.

[Daveman]

I'd say that if you have the high scores even well out of POIS, you should look at it. Although I think Habibou, that CFS might also give you a high score on ADHD even if you don't have ADHD.

Each disease makes it's symptoms, but the symptoms don't always make the Disease.

We have POIS everyone. If you think you have something else or could have something else in parallel go for it. Take the time out, re-think your strategy, follow the lead and we'll see you back here in a few months. If not, all the better for you.

As we've been trying to say. How many of us have non-stop looked for one cure after another. Maybe it;s this, maybe it's that.  I have symptoms of "God knows what" so I must have "God knows what". Ooops nope, I guess I didn't. Now I have symptoms that look like "Allah knows what", so I must have "Allah knows what", so lets try that cure... Ooops nope well now my symptoms seem like........ on and on and on.

When are we going to get off the freaken merry-go-round.

We need research!!! When will we see this. We spend far more trying God knows what than we do in the only thing that's going to finally solve this problem.

[hurray]

Research is hugely important, but it isn't something that happens quickly. We have had people on these forums attempting suicide, and many more for whom POIS is a large factor in their depression (or vice versa). If a small subset of people with POIS also suffer from depression, it is a link well worth discussing I think. If curing the depression cures the "POIS", then that is in itself a discovery.

If (as I suspect) there turns out to be different types of POIS (say POIS A, POIS B, POIS C), maybe cornelius had POIS C and has discovered the cure (eliminating depression through therapy and medication, controlling ADHD through medication). That frees us up to focus on POIS A and POIS B, making the discovery of some additional universal POIS symptoms more likely.

The fact that we have found so few POIS symptoms that applies to every case certainly suggests that there may be more than one variant of POIS at work here - of course it also suggests that some of us may have misdisgnosed ourselves with POIS.

[Daveman]

I agree particularly with your last statement.

Perhaps I tend to worry myself too much in seeing yet another being redirected into a fruitless attempt to solve POIS and having to come back and start over. We've just seen it too many times. And especially when SSRI become involved, if those are not handled properly, and there are so many doctors willing to prescirbe them at the drop of a hat, one enters into a whole world which could involve, many times, fruitless psychological treatments with doctors that are only inerested in having a long term patient.

I just have to stop worrying about that.

I have also said often here that many times it is necesary to treat parallel illnesses first, get straightened around over all, and THEN get into POIS. But the problem is when we chase one thing, then another then another and we never seem to get off of the merry-go-round.

[Daveman]

And I guess THAT's why I say that research is so important. To give us a real direction, a real definition so we can stop chasing our tail.

We can do what ever we want while the finding for research is in progress and the research finally comes through. But the problem is that once we distract ourselves from the main goal, getting the research, we put the research on the back burner HOPING that we will find something ourselves. We don't focus on the funding, and try to look for temp solutions meantime, we focus on temp soutions full time, and MAYBE think about funding meantime. If something we think that has promise comes along we dump the funding. So in the whole process, the funding takes second and third place when it should take first and second.

Aaargh!

[hurray]

The research fund is extremely important, and there is a decent percentage chance that it will lead to a breakthrough in our understanding of POIS. We need to understand the mechanisms that cause POIS, let us hope that the research when it finally comes will give us the explanations we are desperately looking for. It certainly doesn't hurt to have a plan B in place though.

Discussing POIS theories is a little like discussing politics - there is never likely to be a satisfying conclusion to the debate where everyone agrees that we should vote for candidate X rather than candidate Y. But sometimes the merry-go-round produces some real gems. If we weren't filling Google with our discussions of POIS, victor.kons would likely have never found our forums and shared his Vitamin B3 discovery with hundreds of other fellow sufferers. Not a cure-all, but something that is providing real help to real POIS sufferers right now.

The more we talk, the more likely it is that new members will stumble upon our community and share their own discoveries. People who feel involved in the process are probably more likely to make a financial as well as a thoughtful contribution to the community.

People can discuss POIS and donate at the same time - it's not a question of choosing one or the other, thankfully  

[Habibou]

Cornelius,
I got POIS (only cognitive symptoms) while I was scared to be aroused because I had a huge pain between legs... I got stressed each time I got excited and it looks like like your story.
You mean your psychotherapy was the key to avoid the cognitive symptoms after a sexual activity? When did it change? Did you find out what locked you (turning point)?
Did you have the feeling of a huge pressure in the brain while on POIS?
I have seen you were under cognitive symptoms most of the time before Strattera, I am either tired mentally or totally out mentally (under POIS).
So by now, you have a totally normal life as if you never got POIS?

[Vincent M]

Also, concerning the research fund, I think the more treatments we can find on our own that help reduce POIS sufferers' symptoms right now the more pois sufferers will be feeling better and thus become more effective at their jobs thus earning more money that they can then funnel into the research fund. This is certainly the case in my situation as the treatments that I learned here have gotten me to the point where I have a job and am earning money. Maybe in a year I'll have enough money saved up that I can spare some for the research fund.

[Daveman]

Thanks for your objective and factual post. It could help several of us.

I insist though, it is not at all my case, and likely not that of many, but once again simply taking a dose of niacin has completely blocked my POIS reaction. With all the anxiousness and tension associated with thinking the niacin won't work, or it's too go a dream to be true, even on day "0" I actually forget that I have POIS.

By day 1 it will be all gone.

But if you can help even 1 or 3 or 10 like you've helped yourself, ALL THE BETTER.

[Habibou]

That mainly means that talking to a psychologist was the key for getting out of POIS. So you mean the different pills you got did not really change anything?...
You said you do not have any post O headache, but cognitive brain fog... what is the real difference?

[sameer7777]

my blood sugar came normal so i took Cipralex !! terrible results !!
my God my diabetes came normal so i took the decision and thought its depression , as i am feeling all social phobia and too much stress ....
i took cipralex and my symptoms get worse , the whole day i felt nausea ...... my stomack trend to constipation , my whole body esp my head is numb , insomnia is terrible i cant sleep ..... this all i feel after O , now with out O i have more worse symptoms ..... now i have to detox the cipralax , kindly help me how to do it quick ...... i cant sleep .... GOD please help me .................

[hurray]

Also, concerning the research fund, I think the more treatments we can find on our own that help reduce POIS sufferers' symptoms right now the more pois sufferers will be feeling better and thus become more effective at their jobs thus earning more money that they can then funnel into the research fund. This is certainly the case in my situation as the treatments that I learned here have gotten me to the point where I have a job and am earning money. Maybe in a year I'll have enough money saved up that I can spare some for the research fund.

That's a very good point Victor - symptom reduction in any form could help many of us to get new/better jobs, allowing us to donate more.

[hurray]

Thanks for another excellent post!

Now I know you asked us not to focus on the Strattera - probably because you don't want to seem like you are "pushing" drugs on us, and you want to maintain your main message that eliminating depression is what has worked for you.

However, you did say

my experience on Strattera(Paxil) was completely negative

- as Strattera and Paxil are different drugs, perhaps you meant Seroxat/Paxil? You go on to say

I am on one called Strattera, which is really helping me "keep it together" at work.

and

Please don't focus solely on the Strattera - all that takes care of is the distractibility.

For myself, the ability to keep it together at work is very important - I can deal with a lot of things more easily if I am professionally successful - such as contributing to the POIS research fund   I understand that you regard Strattera as helping you treat your ADHD rather than POIS.Thank you for your advice on ADHD - I will see a neurologist about it as soon as money allows.

It's difficult to comment on the brain-fog/clouded-thinking thing - it's so subjective...  At the time, I thought that I was functioning at 100% on those POIS-free days, but now I see that I was barely coping with extreme stress / depression. Even still, those days felt magical to me -- I was able to think clearly and go out and about, and enjoy life (as much as one can while being sexually abstinent). It felt fantastic, and it was always a battle to resist sexual activity to stay in that state for as long as possible. I am much better on a daily basis now, than I ever was on those abstinence days.

It occurs to me that some of us may suffer from different types of brain fog. My own major cognitive symptoms in order of effect are:

1) Extreme social anxiety - the urge to stay in a darkened room by myself rather than (say) go to work.
2) Lethargy, a great unwillingness to do any kind of productive work
3) Difficulty focussing on any mental activity

I'm really not sure about other physical symptoms -- I never had post-coitus headaches, or the flu-like effects that many (but far from all) members report. I always felt lethargic, and never wanted to go out or get exercise mainly out of a reluctance "to go through the effort".
My tactile senses change following ejaculation -- perhaps my skin dries out(?). Perhaps that is the same for you; your senses changing rather than your hair?

My dry hair is definitely a real physical effect - if I'm unsure how bad my cognitive symptoms are, I can just run my finger through my hair. If my hair is extremely "straw-like", it's bad news. Bad POIS also makes the skin on my forehead very dry - I tried using moisturiser, which gave me no cognitive relief.

I hope you can maintain your breakthrough - well done!

[Habibou]

I think exactly the same as Hurray ! We should try to see why Strattera worked ... even if Cornelius does not want to explain his cure by that !

[mellivora]

I recommend Wiseman's 59 Seconds for improving my outlook - it's possibly the only scientifically-grounded self-help book out there (and it works!).

Cornelius, thank you so much for this recommendation! I ordered this book after I read your post and I am working my way through it. Although I am only part way through it, I hope everyone here reads this book, it really is excellent. Its a bargain. I would like to say to the people here, whether you think you are in need of such a book or not, if you read it and act on it, I would be surprised if you found it anything other than beneficial to you. Its not a cure for POIS but, while it is too early for me to judge the longterm benefits, it appears to be a great catalyst to improving aspects of one's life, so far with very minimal effort! (after that glowing review I almost feel the need to say that I don't know Professor Wiseman and I am not associated with this book in any way other than as a reader!).

Thank you again Cornelius!

[Vincent M]

I recommend Wiseman's 59 Seconds for improving my outlook - it's possibly the only scientifically-grounded self-help book out there (and it works!).

Cornelius, thank you so much for this recommendation! I ordered this book after I read your post and I am working my way through it. Although I am only part way through it, I hope everyone here reads this book, it really is excellent.

What points have you found most helpful in the book? Could you perhaps give us some quotations  of the parts you find to help you the most?

[Vincent M]

I think exactly the same as Hurray ! We should try to see why Strattera worked ... even if Cornelius does not want to explain his cure by that !

Personally I think the Strattera is playing a larger role in Cornelius's recovery than he believes. It makes me want to try Strattera myself to see if it'd help improve my brain fog by improving my ability to concentrate and focus.

[Habibou]

Totally agree Marcus ! I want to try it also but I do not know how to manage with my doctor to ask it...

[Jon]

Hey guys, I am also interested in the Strattera. I don't know how many of you guys feel this but let me try my best to explain..

In general I don't feel like I can get up and just live my life to the fullest, I feel like I can't just go about traveling the world or experiencing things without a limit. I always need the aid of foreign ointment (Extra rest and supplements) to make it through my days strong. The feeling is hard to explain but its almost like theres a limit to things always.

Also, It is almost as if in POIS its not that I have anxiety or worry about people, but rather I feel as though I don't have the necessary chemicals to deal with everyday things, and especially people. Anything that you I have to deal with during the day effects me negatively, Like my 'antivirus wall' has been shut down and all the viruses are getting in. There is no natural defense to anything. I don't know if you guys know what I mean, maybe not.. But I have wondered for a few years now if my adrenaline type chemicals (norepinephrine, epinephrine) need a boost due to POIS. That is what Strattera is, A norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.

Thoughts ?

[mellivora]

I agree, the first chapter in "59 seconds" on happiness and the exercises Cornelius has posted above were very helpful and seemed to work. Its amazing how quickly the exercises seemed to give me a boost of happiness. (by the way, I don't consider myself depressed and have never felt the need to turn to anti-depressants etc but with POIS to deal with who doesn't need some help now and then?!). Its important to note that it has been shown that one needs to actually write the answers to these questions, not just think about the answers for the technique to be effective.

The rest of the book is really fascinating and helpful to varying degrees, no doubt dependent on what you feel you need help with. There are a few occasions where I think Dr Wiseman makes inferences that I don't think can necessarily be made from the research studies he cites but I still thoroughly recommend the book. I told a psychologist that Dr Goldmeier works with that I'd read the book and found it helpful. She knew about the book and also thought it was a good one (although she thought in one or two places Dr Wiseman contradicted himself which is probably true). The chapter on happiness is, as I said, the 'stand-out' chapter for me.

Dr G's psychologist colleague recommended to me another book. It is recent (2011) and authored by a professor from Oxford University. Its called:
"Mindfulness: a practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world" and is by Mark Williams and Danny Penman

I have only just started reading it.

I have not been a big reader of self-help books in the past.  There are probably some  bad self-help books out there. The two above seem to be endorsed by people who should know and based on science.  I think anyone can probably benefit from them. They can only help us.

[superasn]

Hi cornelius,

I just read your post and I thank you for sharing it. The more I read it the more sense it makes. I've too been suffering from depression for a very long time (since school maybe) but till date I've always felt that it's nothing I can't fix on my own (tried self-help books, 5HTP, etc). It has helped but very little. Also for a very long time I have felt extremely low (like you put it "running on empty") but I just tried to power through it. I don't know if it makes sense but in my country, seeing a Psychiatrist is still kind of a big deal here :/

Anyway, I started getting the POIS symptoms a few years back myself but here is the part of your post that clicked. Very rarely it has happened that after I masturbate I occasionally forget about it the next day and you know what? When I do forget, I don't get the horrible headaches and other symptoms as well. But as soon as something happens to make me remember it (even faintly), I have had the headaches and other symptoms return out of thin air in just a few hours.

Another thing. One two occasions it has happened that when something really really bothered me I had the same symptoms (headache, nausea, tiredness, irritability, left eye seems it wants to pop, etc) manifest within hours which I couldn't really explain before since I didn't do any sexual activity. So, I ignored it. But this part also fits with your post.

Long story short, I just finally called a Psychiatrist up and made an appointment with him. I give kudos to you for helping me take this action.

Regards,
S.

Update: It been just over one and a half month and condition has gotten better since taking the drugs my Psychiatrist prescribed (Escitalopram - 1yr and Alprazolam - 2 weeks). The symptoms have reduced a lot. Thank you cornelius for bringing it to everyone's attention. I can only wish I had started it sooner but better late than never.. Here is to everyone of us getting better!