Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[b_jim]

I think Guthrie is right
Anyway, another guy told me niacin seems to improve his pois.

[Guthrie]

are you still getting good results from niacinimide

Yes, I had another O on Thursday night, two hours after taking 1100 mg niacinamide.  I had about 85-90% symptom reduction the next day. 

Also, I had an unplanned O Saturday night, without taking any niacinamide.  But, my POIS today while worse compared to the niacinidamide-aided episode, was still somewhat milder than the full 'normal' POIS.  So I wonder whether the niacinamide might have had some carry-over from thee days before, and if so, whether perhaps taking Niacin every day might be useful for building up its POIS-fighting properties.  Perhaps it's something to test in the future.

[lauracostis]

are you still getting good results from niacinimide

Yes, I had another O on Thursday night, two hours after taking 1100 mg niacinamide.  I had about 85-90% symptom reduction the next day. 

Also, I had an unplanned O Saturday night, without taking any niacinamide.  But, my POIS today while worse compared to the niacinidamide-aided episode, was still somewhat milder than the full 'normal' POIS.  So I wonder whether the niacinamide might have had some carry-over from thee days before, and if so, whether perhaps taking Niacin every day might be useful for building up its POIS-fighting properties.  Perhaps it's something to test in the future.

interesting, thanks Guthrie

[Observer]

It is like that i have never had POIS. During this days i have had 2-3 orgasms when i decided, and because i wanted. And i feel like i was feeling 7 years ago, when i did not have POIS. The ejaculation is not triggering any kind of symptoms: I am Full of energy, optimistic, clear-thinking, more focused and more motivated. I could say right now that i am happy. POIS have made me a different person; i got the feeling sometimes that i have missed a lot of things over the last years, but it does not matter anymore; i am happy right now, i have a lovely gf which has show me inmense understanding&help  and i am able to go out and socialize giving the best of myself just after having an o.

Yesterday , i took again 200 mg of Niacin. I did not get the flush, at least i did not notice it. And i ejaculated like more than an hour after; the result was the same: No POIS. Every day i feel better, but the last question remains for me: Why? . I will not rest until i get this question answered.

[Egordon]

So, i've got a new gf and have been taking 300mg of Niacin before, ya know, and despite not feeling an especially large flush I've gotten a 90%+ reduction in symptoms. You guys were absolutely right! Sorry about the skepticism. I've also noticed that when I "have to" take twice within say 18-20 hours, I feel terrific about 5 hours later. Like at 100%. I mean, it could be the afterglow from all that action, but it makes me wonder if some of us would see major benefits from adding a BIG dose of Niacin to our diets everyday. It also makes me wonder if the 1000mg+ slow release tablets would have any effect if they were taken with regularity.

[mellivora]

An updated version of the summary in this post can be found at the following link. As new observations of using Niacin and Xanthinol are posted on the forum, I shall add them to the summary
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958

This thread is getting quite long! I've read it from start to finish today and decided to bring together all the posts so far in a sort of summary. I'm also seeing Dr Goldmeier tomorrow and wanted a summary to send him. If you think I have misinterpreted your posts please let me know. Also let me know if you've anything to add. For those listed on here,
it might be useful to have a two line summary of your usual POIS symptoms so we can see whether you are a sufferer with mostly cognitive or physical symptoms or both so I can add you in. (sorry I haven't had time to go through and pull out your symptoms from old posts - its taken all dat to read and digest everything already). I hope what I've done is accurate and OK. If I haven't included you and you want to be included in the list please let me know. Perhaps this info would have been better in a spreadsheet but this is what I've had time to do and I'm not sure everything fits neatly into a spreadsheet yet...

Summary of POIS sufferers' experiences with Niacin/Niacinamide/Xanthinol Nicotinate taken from the forum POISCENTER.COM

[/b]

Unless otherwise stated 'Niacin' below means nicotinic acid in tablet form.

Forum member username is in bold capitals followed by a summary of the experiences of that member. Each paragraph below the username usually represents a new trial or set of trials by that person.

Positive niacin/xanthinol nicotinate/nicotinamide experiences

[/b]

VIKTOR.KONS (mostly cognitive symptoms but developed physical symptoms including aches later in life)

Injects 0.5ml Xanthil Nicotinate up to 3 hours before sex. Gets a mild flush No or virtually no POIS symptoms. Tried this for over a year with 4-6 orgasms per week and 2 to 3 per day. He never had to increase the dose to continue the effectiveness.

Tried injecting 1ml Niacin instead of Xanthil Nicotinate. Took more time to have the flush. No POIS symptoms (Orgasm 25mins after injection). However, this is just one day after having Xanthil Nicotinate so possibly there was still some influence from the XN. Second try with (1ml?) niacin injection – bad stomach but could have been alcohol induced. Felt “on the edge of POIS”

tried 600mg Xanthil Nicotinate tablets: very strong flush in 6 mins. NO POIS symptoms but felt “unhealthy”

100mg Niacin tablet: no flush (possibly didn't take enough). 1st day after orgasm: POIS symptoms experienced at 10-20% normal level. 2nd day: no symptoms.

300mg Niacin tablet: felt an increase in strength, heart was working better (this is after long day at work when he was feeling tired and heart (rate?) had gone down. Felt flush in 5 mins and in an hour it was strong. NO POIS SYMPTOMS

150mg Niacin tablet 1 hour before orgasm. Has tried this 3 times and each time had no symptoms.

200mg powdered Niacin. Flush in 5 mins. NO POIS SYMTOMS. (Reports that there were no negative feelings in the stomach which he'd sometimes had with non-powdered tablets).


JIVETALK
Was taking niacin regularly (100mg twice per day). Then took 300mg prior to orgasm. POIS symptoms remained at about 60-70% intensity.

Stopped taking the regular 100mg doses of niacin. Then about 45mins before orgasm took 300mg. Felt the flush during orgasm. Initially felt good with only minor symptoms. Next day, no symptoms and then later in afternoon about 60% symptom intensity.

300mg Niacin tablets 60 mins before orgasm. Woke feeling very hot but no symptoms. Subsequently, every few hours POIS symptoms started appearing but, each time, taking a 100mg niacin tablet made them recede (happened 5 times – total 500mg niacin taken throughout this day and about 10% symptoms overall throughout this day). Day3: slight head pressure but not like POIS. 4th day: no POIS at all, “feel great”.

Monday night: 300mg Niacin 40 mins before orgasm. No initial brain fog, slept fine. Tues morning: no brain fog then later 5-10%. Tues night: 300mg Niacin 40 mins before orgasm. No brain fog. Wed morning: no pois symptoms.

Has subsequently been taking 100-200mg Niacin on the day of orgasm. POIS symptoms are consistently reduced to 10-20% of normal intensity.

GUTHRIE
300mg Niacin on a mostly empty stomach 40 mins before orgasm. Flush appeared in 5 mins. Flush lasted about 1 hour continuing 20mins after orgasm. Felt better than usual initially. Later in evening, POIS symptoms appeared. Next day POIS symptoms were only 15-20% usual intensity.

Subsequently tried several trials with 100-200mg Niacin. Flushed but not for as long. However, POIS symptoms were not reduced as much as with the initial 300 mg trial.

Tried 300mg again, 2 hours prior to orgasm. Next day, POIS was only 15-20% intensity.

Took two 1100mg Niacinamide (non-flushing) 2.5hours prior to orgasm. No flush. Next day, all symptoms were only 5-10% usual intensity.Reports feeling better than after the 300mg niacin trials.

Thursday night: 1100mg niacinamide. Next day, 10-15% symptoms. Also, unplanned orgasm saturday night. Milder symptoms than normal (is there a residual effect from the niacinamide?) but not as big a reduction in symptoms as just after taking Niacinamide.

POIS_SUFFERER
Been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not nicotinamide), non-flushing. It's been working well


B_DANIEL

450mg of xan-pro tablets (Xanthinol Nicotinate). Mild flush for 20mins. Then had orgasm. Next day, POIS symptoms only 20% usual intensity (and symptoms seemed to fade away later in the day?)

In subsequent weeks: has been taking 1.5 (150mg) XN tablets one hour before orgasm. He can have 3 orgasms within a few hours after taking XN with only minor POIS creeping in one-two days later.  Only takes tablets on empty stomach otherwise doesn't have the flush.

Tried Niacin (quantity unspecified) 5 hours before orgasm. It didn't appear to be effective taken that long before orgasm.

KING KONG

300mg Niacin 30 mins before orgasm. If he does not sleep about one hour after orgasm he has symptoms of 40-50% normal. If he sleeps for maximum 1 hour after orgasm and then wakes up, his symptoms are only 10% normal intensity.

The day 1 after orgasm he takes regular 100mg doses to help keep POIS symptoms away (up to max 900mg for the day). Day 2 after orgasm he takes 100mg in morning and 100mg in afternoon and symptoms are 10% intensity. Day 3 100mg tablet keeps symptoms at 5% intensity. Day 4: a 100mg tablet and he has no POIS symptoms



HURRAY(mostly cognitive/brain fog symptoms)
Has done two trials of the following: 250mg Niacin prior to orgasm. He gets the flush. After orgasm, symptoms are 30-40% usual intensity.

KK (not sure if this is the same person as King Kong? POIS lasts 5-7days and is worst on days 3 and 4).

300mg one hour after dinner. No flush. The day after orgasm, symptoms were 70-90% intensity.

3 days later: 300mg after dinner. Did get a flush but not until 2.5hours after taking tablets. He had already orgasmed by then, Same results as last time but by day 4 he felt almost back to normal (usually 3rd and 4th days are the worst for him)

500mg Niacin about 12 hours after dinner. Had flush lasting 10mins. Orgasm soon after. Next day symptoms were 30-40% intensity. Days 2 and 3 were even better.

300mg about 12 hours after dinner. Same results as the previous trial.

STARSKY
did his own allergy test with and without taking 300mg Xanthinol Nicotinate. Putting semen on his skin and waiting 30mins usually gives him a reaction. If he has taken XN, he doesn't get a reaction. 6 hours after taking XN, the skin reaction to semen comes back to its 'normal' level.

VINCENT MARKUS

100mg Niacin after dinner. Orgasm 1 hour after. Didn't notice a flush but seemed to have more energy than normal in the afternoon of the following day.

200mg Niacin 10 hours after eating. Flush about 30mins after taking tablets. Orgasmed as flush wore off. Felt a bit tired but could think clearly (can't usually). Had a couple more orgasms in the night. Next day felt ok but not 100%. His general stamina and physical energy were increased.


OBSERVER
Had a nocturnal emission.  Had POIS symptoms. Ate a light breakfast. Took 100 mg Niacin. Intense flush. 50 minutes later – had an orgasm. No POIS symptoms.

200mg Niacin. Weak flush. Orgasm 1 hour later. No POIS symptoms

100mg Niacin. No flush (was after a meal) so took 200mg more. Moderate flush. Orgasm 1 hour later. No POIS symptoms.

200mg weak flush. Orgasm a little after the flush. Some POIS symptoms (mild brain fog)

Next day and with some POIS: 200mg Niacin (on empty stomach). Intense flush. No POIS symptoms (maybe a lttle tired in morning but fine in afternoon.

Has repeated several trials with 200mg since without suffering POIS symptoms

EGORDON
200mg Niacin. Flush. Only 10-20% cognitive symptoms after orgasm.

After this initial success, he took supplements including 100mg Niacin/day. Then he took 400mg Niacin on top. No flush. Orgasmed anyway. Usual physical symptoms (burning in eyes and tension in shoulders) mostly didn't appear. Cognitive symptoms about 50% intensity.

300mg Niacin (not sure if he's stopped the regular 100mg doses at this point). Large flush. POIS is less than 10% intensity.

Orgasming twice (each with 300mcg? Niacin before) in 18-20hrs leads to him feeling “terrific” 5 hours later. No POIS symptoms.

Negative niacin results/ other observations:

[/b]

GABIN (russian forum member):
Tried  niacin tablets in doses 200-250mg. Reported that it had no effect on POIS symptoms.

JON
200mg in the morning. Didn't feel much effect(ie no flush) and didn't orgasm either. Took a further 400mg at night.Only felt a little tingling (no significant flush). Then orgasmed but there was no POIS prevention.

Took nearly 500mg Niacin. The more he became aroused the more he felt a lot of heat in his head (not sure if this was a flush, it didn't really pass). This was one hour after taking Niacin. Afterwards (presume after orgasm?) felt “crippled", couldn't get up, nerves were sensitive. Wasn't painful to move, just difficult. Groin very sensitive. Doesn't think it helped POIS although a week later perhaps he was more recovered than usual.

Almost 500mg Niacin. Again only a little tingling in the face, no real flush. Orgasmed and sleep was “uncomfortable”. Very irritating to move like he's frozen in bed. Felt a little better than usual the first day after orgasm but POIS symptoms still there.

We are not sure if Jon took flushing or non-flushing or slow-release niacin.

HABIBOU
Ate bread and Nutella. Took Niacin 500mg on half-full stomach. Intense flush after 20mins. Orgasm about 1 hour later. Still got part of the flush after orgasm. Developed POIS symptoms.

CCCONFUCIUS
observed that the flush was “way worse” with 200mg Niacin than with 300mg Xanthinol nicotinate. Also noticed the Niacin “spiked” his heart rate.

[mellivora]

Something from this thread that I think is worth flagging up again:
If Observer has an unplanned orgasm (don't we all!). He seems to be able to get rid of symptoms by taking his usual dose of Niacin and then having another orgasm. To me that's incredibly significant. I get symptoms for about 7 days after O and to be able to knock symptoms on the head like this even after an unplanned O would be amazing. I haven't tried Niacin yet so I don't know if it works for me. I plan to pick some up tomorrow and will report back.

Starsky's allergy test with and without Xanthinol nicotinate was also really interesting.

Thanks for all the tests everyone!! Good luck!

[Vincent M]

This thread is getting quite long! I've read it from start to finish today and decided to bring together all the posts so far in a sort of summary.

VINCENT MARKUS

100mg Niacin after dinner. Orgasm 1 hour after. Didn't notice a flush but seemed to have more energy than normal in the afternoon of the following day.

200mg Niacin 10 hours after eating. Flush about 30mins after taking tablets. Orgasmed as flush wore off. Felt a bit tired but could think clearly (can't usually). Had a couple more orgasms in the night. Next day felt ok but not 100%. His general stamina and physical energy were increased.

I'd like to add that the past few weeks I've taken 200mg of niacin on saturday night an hour or two after dinner and orgasm an hr after taking the niacin. I don't feel better immediately, but the next day  my physical energy and stamina increases allowing me to do heavy exercise for an hour or two.

[Observer]

Something from this thread that I think is worth flagging up again:
If Observer has an unplanned orgasm (don't we all!). He seems to be able to get rid of symptoms by taking his usual dose of Niacin and then having another orgasm. To me that's incredibly significant. I get symptoms for about 7 days after O and to be able to knock symptoms on the head like this even after an unplanned O would be amazing. I haven't tried Niacin yet so I don't know if it works for me. I plan to pick some up tomorrow and will report back.

Starsky's allergy test with and without Xanthinol nicotinate was also really interesting.

Thanks for all the tests everyone!! Good luck!

Thank you for your sumary Mellivora. I just only want to add that sometimes when i was suffering POIS in the past and i had another orgasm, my symptoms improved. The first time i used the niacin i had a NE as you said, but i only took 100 mg(very intense flush). That made me to recover to 10-20% POIS(still felt minor brain fog during that day/ the next day in some moments). I repeated the experiment tge time when i took the niacin but had the orgasm so soon that unfortunately i developed symptoms. Then, i waited to the next day, and had another good orgasm after taking 200 mg niacin - 1-2 hours after i was feeling very, very well, no POIS.

[Guthrie]

Mellirova -- AMAZING summary!! Thanks so much for compiling it -- it is really helpful to see all at once!

And, let us know what Dr. Goldmeier's response is to the nicain compilation-report!

[Animus]

Mellirova -- AMAZING summary!! Thanks so much for compiling it -- it is really helpful to see all at once!

And, let us know what Dr. Goldmeier's response is to the nicain compilation-report!

thank you for the summary Mel-
Animus

[mellivora]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll add in your new observations Vincent and modify yours as you describe Observer. Probably not until later today or tomorrow as my time is short this morning.


Meant to say:
B_Jim I haven't added you in yet. It sounds from your posts like you are building up from relatively smaller doses of Niacin so far but haven't had much success as yet?? I hope your future tests go ok. I'll add more when I'm clearer about where you are at.

Silverandcol: sorry, I know I've not added you yet either. I wasn't sure from your posts exactly what you have tried so far and the success rate you have had. If you could summarise your experiences for us in terms of what you have tried so far, what strength tablets, flush or not flush, when you take them (eg. amount of time before orgasm) and the effect it has had on your POIS symptoms that would be great. Also an idea of how many trials you have done so far would be useful. Then I'll add you to the summary. Thanks.

[Daveman]

Mellivora,

Thanks for your summary! I have been quite involved with personal concerns, and just recently saw this.

We should probably create a XN / Niacin summary thread which is just for your summary. We could still keep using this thread, and as certain precedure tend to surface we can include them to the summary thread.

[mellivora]

Hi,
As I mentioned, I was scheduled to have another appointment with Dr Goldmeier today. When I got there, it turned out he couldn't be there today and I saw a member of his team who is primarily a psychologist. Unfortunately this means I couldn't discuss with him our niacin results (although I did outline them to his colleague anyway). However, I sent the summary our results so far to Dr Goldmeier  last night along with an introductory email explaining our progress so I hope to get a reply from him in due course and shall follow up if I don't hear from him.

I have started a new thread called "Potential opportunity to launch a scientific POIS study" under  "Funding a Research Grant" on this forum in reaction to a discussion I had with a colleague of Dr Goldmeier's today. Please go there and have a look. (you can click the link below)

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=233.0

[mellivora]

We should probably create a XN / Niacin summary thread which is just for your summary. We could still keep using this thread, and as certain precedure tend to surface we can include them to the summary thread.

Hi Daveman,
good idea! I shall create a new thread for the summary and update it as new results come in. I think I'll also have a line at the top which has the date of the last update and the username of the person who's trial it was. That way people will always know how up to date the summary is at any one time.
Thanks.

[mellivora]

Thank you for your sumary Mellivora. I just only want to add that sometimes when i was suffering POIS in the past and i had another orgasm, my symptoms improved. The first time i used the niacin i had a NE as you said, but i only took 100 mg(very intense flush). That made me to recover to 10-20% POIS(still felt minor brain fog during that day/ the next day in some moments). I repeated the experiment tge time when i took the niacin but had the orgasm so soon that unfortunately i developed symptoms. Then, i waited to the next day, and had another good orgasm after taking 200 mg niacin - 1-2 hours after i was feeling very, very well, no POIS.

Observer, thanks, I'd like to clarify my understanding of some things you have written here before I modify the summary. Please forgive all my questions, I want to get this right..

(i)After your NE, you say you took 100mg which led to some recovery. Do you mean you just took 100mg Niacin (no O) or that you took 100mg and then had an O? Was this O 50 mins after your 100mg dose as in your original post? Also can you remember how long after the NE you had this second O?

(ii) Where you say "I repeated the experiment", do you mean you had another NE and then had an O after which you took niacin (but the O was too soon after the NE). And then next day you took 200mg Niacin and then had an O that resulted in no POIS symptoms?
Actually, when you say you had the O too soon, do you mean too soon after NE or too soon after taking the Niacin?

One more question! In the past when you were able to improve your POIS by having a second orgasm, did you ever notice there being a particular length of time after the first orgasm that the second should be to give an improvement in symptoms. ie. How long after the first O did you generally have the second O when it was effective. Or did this vary?

Thanks.

[Observer]

Hi Mellivora;

(i) It was my original post.That was the first time i took the niacin and had an orgasm, because i have already taken the niacin but without an O., just to watch the effects and build up a dose for the appropiate time. I took 100 mg Niacin and then had an O after 50 minutes while i was having the effects of POIS due to a NE. The NE occured like 4-5 hours before taking the niacin and having the "flushed orgasm".

(ii) No, i don´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin. Immediately after having the O. i knew that something had not gone very well and i was going to develop POIS symptoms. That afternoon/night i suffered brain fog, was not feeling well. Then the day after i had another O  after taking 200 mg niacin and my previous POIS symptoms were whipped of.

I do not remember any particular time-frame between that two orgasms. I remind that this happened to me few times, that i started to feel better after an O while in POIS, because the rule was, more orgasms ---> worse POIS, and the proportion was overwhelming like 9 vs 1 (worsening POIS vs improving POIS) .

I hope this answers your questions.

[mellivora]

I have made a new thread for the summary of our niacin experiences here:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958

I meant to call the thread FORUM SUMMARY: rather than just SUMMARY: but I can't seem to change that now. No problem really. The idea behind that thinking was that we can have other 'forum summaries in future on other topics that have long threads.

I'll continue to update the summary when I can as new posts about niacin are made. T At the top of the summary in italics, you can see how up to date the summary is at any one time. The posts are now in alphabetical order of username.

Observer, thanks for clarifying your post, please can you check I've updated your section correctly. Where you said:

(ii) No, i don´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin.

I wasn't sure what dose of Niacin you took this time. For now I have put 100?mg...Do you remember what dose it was?

[Observer]

Observer, thanks for clarifying your post, please can you check I've updated your section correctly. Where you said:

(ii) No, i didn´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin.

I wasn't sure what dose of Niacin you took this time. For now I have put 100?mg...Do you remember what dose it was?

Yes,that time i took 200 mg like the other times. I think that the problem was that i did not wait too long after taking the niacin..

[mellivora]

Some words of caution:

I used Niacin for the first time yesterday after an unplanned O. I know it has been found by one or two forum members that it doesn't work if taken only after O. I wanted to try something that had worked for Observer - namely clearing symptoms by taking niacin and then orgasming again. Uncharacteristically for me,  I wasn't too careful with it and took more than I should have. I was so desperate to clear my symptoms for a fun day I had planned for today. Normally I am very cautious about any new med.  Anyway, I discovered this evening that I passed blood with my faeces indicating internal bleeding. I suspect this is for two reasons: (i) I took a fair bit of Niacin (nicotinic acid), especially for my first time (yesterday first 150mg (without O) then later in the day 300mg with O. This morning another 100mg. (ii) I have been taking glucosamine for a strained joint/tendons  in my finger. Both Niacin and glucosamine can cause bleeding. I knew this yet I still proceeded because I really wanted a result.

I shall report my experience more fully soon. For now let me remind everyone to be careful, take things slowly and monitor yourself closely with these experiments. POIS is terrible but we don't want to create other complications through our eagreness to cure ourselves. Briefly, my experiment doesn't seem to have  helped my symptoms. I am stopping glucosamine and it will be some time before I try Niacin again. Next time it will be before O only. I shall also try to visit a doctor for a checkup tomorrow.