| November June (O 10 hours before + O 3 days before) |
Hei Victor,I tried XN one year ago, on summer 2010. It was not really me who experimented, it was my therapist who experimented, she tried different drugs for stimulating the brain activity, because due to my tests I had starting edema of a brain. I don't know the correct english names for this drugs and right now have no time to lookup, writing from the airport, these drugs were: cerebrolisin, piracetam, glukosa, niacin, cavinton. She treated me against edema, but I complained about my disease and after I came to her after a sex, each time she had a hard time to bring me to normal state, she had a problems with making me a dropper, because in POIS my heart start to go crazy and my blood pressure reacted unusually to drugs, e.g. it started to drop very fast after taking medicines, whereas in normal state it was stable. So she had to find some cure to help me overcome POIS symptoms, so that she would be able to treat my edema. So it was like a technical task for her. The situation was bad also because I had problems with my stomach and she were unable to use niacin, because it is not good for a stomach, so she decided to change the medicine to equivalent, e.g. to XN. And, one time when she suffered again with me, she recommended me to inject myself XN, before I will have a sex and go for a dropper, and since that time I experimented with XN and found minimal doze for myself, which works for me.
Many questions about it :
When did you try XN?
What did you try before XN success for you?I had POIS since my first O, I was 14 years old boy when I started to feel these terrible symptoms. At first it was only brain fog which disturbed me. To prevent brain fog I had learned poems and texts by heart, after O, and it helped to quickly neutralize POIS symptoms, but over time I needed to study longer and longer texts and around the age of 22 it stopped working for me completely and I've started to attend various doctors. I had a terrible experience with doctors, I went through the road of unbeliveable pain and misery. My only wish was to diagnoze the disease, but I didn't succeded in that. I've failed, tried again and then failed even more, feeling terrible frustration.
What were your symptoms, exactly? (more cognitive? physic? = could you describe them in details please!)My symptoms was started as cognitive only, but after the age of 22 I think I started to feel terrible physic symptoms too. I felt aches in the various parts of my body while in POIS, I noticed that I have face edema, my heart was going crazy. I used to run in the morning, I very very like to run, but I noticed that while in POIS if I run, I had terrible symptoms after that, e.g. they become worser. I also have cognitive symptoms - brain fog, idiotic thinking, depression, loss of memory, aggression. The last time I had this symptoms they have lasted for 3 days.
Do you feel free of symptoms or not totally?If I do injection I feel that I'm an absolutely NORMAL person, e.g. I have no POIS symptoms that disturb me, no brain for at all, I can sit and drive the car after sex, without fears. But I do feel that I had a sex, e.g. I feel that its different after sex, I feel maybe that I'm a bit tired, but I don't feel something bad, its all very light.
How many suffers you know got a success with that?I'm for sure remember 3 sufferers, but maybe I don't remember someone, I shouted to the syndrom-x blog at Friday, but didn't got a reply from anyone yet.
Did you have some blood tests in immunology/hormonally + brain MRI? which ones? what were the results?Yes, I have such tests. But right now I'm writing from the airport and have no tests with me, I will find these tests and post the results as soon as I will land.
Good work ! ^^ thank you !You are absolutely welcome. We are all in the same boat.
I'd say these tests indicate that you DO have an autoimmune reaction. Your IgE is 190% 10 hours after orgasm. This is definitely type I, and just as Dr. Waldinger predicts.
My 2 cents worth :-)
XN seems to be very B3 related (Niacin), and my DR after much talking of my condition had stated that I should try taking B3. There are 2 kinds, one will make you very flush and one will not, he said to find the non-flush type.....
I had read someone talking about the Niacin and 5 hour energy giving someone an allergic reaction, this was not allergies, this is what the one form of Niacin does....
Anyway thought it was an interesting coincidence.
I am going to start taking my B3 and see....
PS.
mod edit - Niacin bold-enlarged-emphasis above is mine, demo
what sideeffects did your doctor tell you to watch out for using xanithol nicotinateMy doctor told me to read XN instruction for sideeffects and that I shouldn't scary of Niacin Flush when I take XN. But in reality for me flush was very minor and I quickly adapted to niacin, so I don't have visible redness on the skin after taking XN now. You can obviously search over internet about XN sideeffects and instruction in english.
how do you spell xanithol nicotinate in russian i think i found a legitimate ukrainian pharmacy that is willing to ship around the world and take major currenciesI spell it "ksantinola nikotinat". I don't know French, unfortunately. And I don't know any credible internet pharmacies.... So really I can't help you here, sorry, google and healthy skeptics are your friends in the search for pharmacy.
pharmalad.com
what do you guys think.
Holy Moly! After re-reading POIS-SUFFERER's post above, it suddenly hit me: my POIS has strangely but dramatically improved recently - 90% to 100% POIS relief, over my usual 80% relief with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)...Demo, I like to think that this is the B3 which helps, this would made things easy for many of you, because you don't have XN easily available, but I can't be sure until someone really tries niacin and XN and says that they have the same positive effect for him...
At the same time, I also was recently put on NIASPAN® (niacin extended-release tablets) for my cholesterol!
I hope this is real and not just a happy interlude!
Stay tuned!
Wow.
This is NOT a recommendation for you to try it, though I really hope this helps the forum's research! And - as always - work closely with your physician, and keep in mind that we are all different! What works for one person might not work for someone else. And could even be harmful.
Hello victor , my symptoms are very much like yours , am currently 23 ,my symptoms started at my first onset of puberty and was strictly cognitive at that time , it was devastating for me because my IQ was my only asset at school , i'm very happy for you that you found stability and knew how to control pois , wish you all the best :)No, cerebrolysin didn't help with POIS for me at all
I'm having trouble finding XN injections where I live , but there is ceberolysin trade name is cerebrolysin , did it work for you ?
"Fenugreek contains high concentrations of choline, tryptophan, ascorbic acid, niacin and potassium."Guess what is also a mild vasodilator garlic
Holy Moly! After re-reading POIS-SUFFERER's post above, it suddenly hit me: my POIS has strangely but dramatically improved recently - 90% to 100% POIS relief, over my usual 80% relief with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)...
At the same time, I also was recently put on NIASPAN® (niacin extended-release tablets) for my cholesterol!
I hope this is real and not just a happy interlude!
Stay tuned!
Wow.
This is NOT a recommendation for you to try it, though I really hope this helps the forum's research! And - as always - work closely with your physician, and keep in mind that we are all different! What works for one person might not work for someone else. And could even be harmful.
Demo, I like to think that this is the B3 which helps, this would made things easy for many of you, because you don't have XN easily available, but I can't be sure until someone really tries niacin and XN and says that they have the same positive effect for him...
Victor
It would be good to have a medical view on this Niacin finding and the possible link with our POIS.
Niacin monitoring -Thats interesting.
Today (POIS onset) was 90%+ POIS-free. After my dose of 500mg (daily) NIASPAN, it feels like it jumped to 100%.
Placebo effect? Time will tell.
(Keep in mind that TRT is still my main POIS "cure", with 2.5 years proven 80% efficacy).
1. I'm taking XN starting from February 2010, and through all this time it simply works, so probably its not a placebo.
2. I have not experimented of taking XN too much, when I have the POIS, but I noticed that when in POIS it has far less effect, e.g. you need to take very high dose to feel the relief. But again, I didn't experimented much with it. Your dose of 500mg looks big enough, thats why you might feel the relief of up to 20% to your TRT, but I wonder how much niacin in this dose?
Victor
Victor,
Your doctor that originally directed you to XN must really be commended for her effort and concern. So many just say they can't help you.
I tried to give my donation but my "card doesn't work on international websites" >:( I will send it with another card soon so ! But you are right, we really all need to take part of it at our own scale :) each $ is welcome !
100$ isn't a lot but it is a good start !
I have bought "Nicobion 500mg" (french version) to take orally which is same as vitamine PP/ vitamine B3, Niacin, nicotinamide. Will update :)
Xanthiol Nicotinate is a form of niacin (Vitamin B3) which is a vasodilator used in peripheral vascular disorders and insufficiency. Also has been used (in pill form as niacin) to treat short-term memory disorders, lack of concentration, attention and vigilance (works possibly because it dilates constricted cerebral vessels).
In point 2 are you refering to when you had forgotten to take XN before so as to prevent POIS? The question is related to point 1. If XN stops your POIS, you wouldn't have POIS to try the XN.Yes, you are right.
I guess what you mean is that taking it too late (i.e. after the orgasm) it doesn't work much.
I assume you don't take XN daily either right? Just when you know you are going to have an orgasm.Yes, you are right again and indeed this is very important point. I believe that only relatively big doses have the effect (though they are big they are in the range of allowed doses that are written in instruction for XN for example), I don't believe that small and often niacin doses will help. But these are my beliefs that come from experiments on myself.
Common herbs with vasodilatory actions:
? Achillea millefolium (Yarrow)
? Allium sativum (Garlic)
? Amoracia rusticana (Horseradish)
? Berberis vulgaris (Barberry)
? Cimicifuga racemosa(Black cohosh)
? Coleus forskholii (Coleus)
? Coptis spp. (Goldenthread)
? Crataegusspp. (Hawthorn)
? Eleutherococcus senticosus(Siberian ginseng)
? Ginkgo biloba(Ginkgo)
? Melissa offiicnalis (Lemon Balm)
? Olea europaea (Olive leaf)
? Panax ginseng(Chinese Ginseng)
? Petroselinum crispum (Parsley)
? Scutellaria baicalensis (Baical Skullcap)
? Tilia europaea (Linden Flower)
? Trigonella foenum-graecum (Fenugreek)
? Urtica dioica (Nettles)
? Valeriana officinalis(Valerian)
? Viburnum spp. (Cramp, Bark, Black Haw)
? Veratrum viride (American Hellebore)
? Verbena officinalis (Vervain)
? Xanthoxylum americanum (Prickly Ash)
? Zingiber officinale(Ginger)
Victor,Agree with you. I've entered some data about her (Bruslenko Olga Vasilevna) at the link you provided.
Your doctor that originally directed you to XN must really be commended for her effort and concern. So many just say they can't help you.
She, it was a she wasn't it, should receive some recognition.
can you send me her data? We have a database for POIS related assistance in all parts of the world. The program is a little rough still, I need to get time to clean it up, but it's at http://poiscenter.com/db/collaborator_list.php. Enter her data there so others in your area may be able to go to someone "useful". Also at some point, if we find that XN is a key in all of this, I would like to give her the credit for taking the initiative.
Any key advances on POIS will go into history, as we are at the beginning of a solution.
If you go to the database and have problems entering her data, send it to me via PM and I'll be sure it gets in there.
I am trying some Niacin 100 mg, twice daily at the moment. Can't try the O at the moment, though until the weekend. Damned Meetings and Work. ...Will keep you posted. Would love to hear if others are trying this stuff also.
Yes, seems so :) We are weekend men ;)I am trying some Niacin 100 mg, twice daily at the moment. Can't try the O at the moment, though until the weekend. Damned Meetings and Work. ...Will keep you posted. Would love to hear if others are trying this stuff also.
I just bought some Niacin too. It looks as if a lot of us have gone out and bought B3. But nobody is writing in about their recent experimentation! Are we are all waiting for the weekend to O!?!
what sideeffects did your doctor tell you to watch out for using xanithol nicotinatepharmalad has "ksantinola nikotinat", which means xanthinol nicotinate. I cant read anything on the site so I dont know if they are offering it in tablets or ampules for injection. It is not commonly taken in injection form so I would suspect that they are offering it in tablet form.
how do you spell xanithol nicotinate in russian i think i found a legitimate ukrainian pharmacy that is willing to ship around the world and take major currencies
pharmalad.com
what do you guys think.
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back. I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription.I bet that vitamin B complex injection makes you feel good even if it does not stop POIS
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back. I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription.In Ukraine you definitely do not need prescription to get injectable XN, they sell it to anyone without prescription, so I don't see the reason for online pharmacies to require prescription from you. I think the same is true for Russia. Btw, I think you will have a better chance to get XN from Russian online pharmacy, obviously because Russia is a big country.
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:Yep, 2ml ampules is what I use, one ampule for 4 doses.
http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx
just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE 300mg/2ml 2ml Inj. $1.50
let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap. according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.
found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:
http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx
just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE 300mg/2ml 2ml Inj. $1.50
let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap. according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back. I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription.In Ukraine you definitely do not need prescription to get injectable XN, they sell it to anyone without prescription, so I don't see the reason for online pharmacies to require prescription from you. I think the same is true for Russia. Btw, I think you will have a better chance to get XN from Russian online pharmacy, obviously because Russia is a big country.
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
Victor
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampulesusing filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them. The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital. As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do. I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials. Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.
do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
I dont really ever buy anything from online pharmacies, but online pharmacies that sell scheduled drugs without a prescription are very sketchy.found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:
http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx
just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE 300mg/2ml 2ml Inj. $1.50
let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap. according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.
how did you find it. have been trying for to long.
am convinced pharmacies are good when they dont sell controlled substances and steroid
that is why i like pharamalad
I an not a good person for answering such questions, because I don't have medical education. I don't want to answer this question to not have you stick to wrong way of doing things, better ask someone with trusted knowledge and experience in this field.lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampulesusing filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them. The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital. As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do. I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials. Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.
do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
Please, Pay very attention buying drugs from an on line website, moreover in a foreign country !Yeah ordering online iis scary but reading their policies they look okay I will do google India search to see if they are trustworthy
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampulesusing filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them. The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital. As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do. I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials. Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.
do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
Ccconfucius have you ordered any yet, please let me know the details if you do. It actually took me a very long time to find a retail site that was selling it.
nice find!lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampulesusing filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them. The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital. As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do. I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials. Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.
do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
Ccconfucius have you ordered any yet, please let me know the details if you do. It actually took me a very long time to find a retail site that was selling it.
this website have 10mll viials $1.50 a piece.
http://www.gpzservices.com/show_big_cart.asp?Return_To=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egpzservices%2Ecom%2Fitems%2Fproducts%2Fvials~presealed%2F-br-clear%2Flist%2Ehtm%232453684
I bought some Nature's Bounty 500mg Niacin capsules. The bottle says "Flush Free" on the side. I don't get the flush or the tingling/itching, even when I take 2 pills at a time. I wish I could report my findings to everyone, but my POIS symptoms are so circumstantial that it's impossible for me to say after taking it once (just before an O). I will say though that my symptoms were very weak this time - so I can't say that I know that it didn't work! that's good, right? Somebody who's more in tune with his POIS needs to experiment and report back.
The capsules are niacinimide then?
The suspicion is that the flush and or histamine release is what helps, so niacin (the flush kind) is what we need to try.
However it's good that we test the non-flush kind, becasue at this point in time we are still talking conjecture.
You could try a few more times then switch to a flush type (careful with the dose the first time), 500 would probably give you one heck of a ride!
Hi Guys.I can say that I've no POIS today, but I felt like I was on the edge of getting POIS after I've tried Nicotinic Acid instead of XN and had an O... And my stomach became crazy, I don't understand is it because of nicotinic acid, or because I took some alcohol on the birthday party of my relative.... Anyways I'm going to continue experiments with nicotinic acid. Also there is XN in tablets. I had tried it one time and failed, but I think now that might be I need to increase the dose and try again.
Thought I'd just report, that I woke up with no POIS symptoms this morning even from my O yesterday afternoon, but later in the morning/day whilst at work POIS symptoms started occuring. Cold Sweats, tiredness (yawning, eye strain) and brainfog. However intensity was maybe 60%. I can't help but feel that the Niacin 'wore off' somehow - either that or it was just Placebo effect - I don't know.
Victor - I am very encouraged that the Nicontinic Acid gave you the same effects as XN. It would be great once you are able to prove that conclusively with a 'clean test'.
I think injections could be healthier. Victors XN dose is 150 mg. I want to try 1000mg in Pill. Perhaps it will work.
But way better to get it [done] by a professional the first times ! [:)]
mod edit: emphasis mine on Habibou's words above - demo
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is. It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.Yep, but lemme check :) , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?
It should be noted ....... nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.
I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.
......
Point 3 is contradicting my experience. After injection of XN I can have O, even many O's in 3-4 hours after injection and I will not have POIS.It should be noted ....... nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.
I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.
......
Although it's just one report, take a look at jivetalk's post here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg1932#msg1932).
He had a successful test using a single does shortly before orgasm.
My goal is threefold:
1) Attempt to find a combination with an easily available version of Niacin which doesn't have to be injected.
2) Reduce the amount ingested with time, instead of 200 to 300 daily and a higher does of say 500 just before orgasm, take ONLY 200 to 300 once just before orgasm.
3) verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm.
Point 1 makes us less prone to breaking the law and or resorting to inscrupulous methods for obtaining the releif
Point 2 should reduce the negative effects on the liver, given that ingestion is sporadic and of lower dosage.
Point 3 could be a key factor in understanding the POIS mechanism.
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is. It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.Yep, but lemme check :) , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?
Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.
Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...
Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.
Victor
I meant that I had some tension feelings in the right bottom area of a chest and I felt some weakness, I think this is because overdose of XN.It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is. It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.Yep, but lemme check :) , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?
Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.
Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...
Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.
Victor
Victor - Thank you!
Can you clarify what you mean by 'Liver seems reacting' and you 'feel unhealthy'- Would like to understand this to see if I have any of the same reactions to Niacin.
Victor. As far as point #3....Daveman, I understand everything and fully agree with you. Also this is the normal scientific approach for finding out facts about real life objects and processes.
First we have to be consistent and focused in our testing. If we have results that don't fit with our hypothesis, it does't necesarily mean that we have failed, unless we have been so disorganized that we can't make heads nor tails of the results.
I don't think our tests should be such that we qualify "feel better" as success and "no gain" as failure.
Often, a failure points directly to a direction for a solution. But that can only happen if we have an hypothesis based on as many facts as we can muster, and we can see clearly enough how specifically the failure points to an error in the hypothesis.
Like a row of dominos stood up one in line with the other. If we are so intent on watching the last domino fall that we don't see that the one in the middle is crooked, then we'll never find the solution. The last domino didn't fall, so that line of investigation is a failure???? NO.
We need an hypothesis (as erred as it may be) and we set up the experiment, one domino after the other and watch all dominos. If the hypothesis is quite erred, it will cost us quite a bit more. But we at least can go, one domino at a time, adjusting until the last one falls, or until we can see that there's no way that the dominos can be laid out so as to make thelast one fall.
In the above case, point 3 is:
"verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm"
Perhaps the histamine reaction caused by XN / Niacin raises the threshold temporarily (up to 5 hrs) so that the negative histamine release chain that happens with POIS is blocked!
One hypothesis.
noIt should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is. It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.Are XN tables easily available in USA?
Victor
Niacin Acid Tablets Report.
Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.
Victor
Yes, I recuperated Dave, thank you. The problem is that I have too weak and sensitive liver and stomach, so any form of tablets and pure niacin acid are pretty hard for me, but I want to come up with some useful results.Niacin Acid Tablets Report.
Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.
Victor
Great news so far. So I guess you recuperated from the overdose! (XN 600mg)? You had me worried there for a while.
How many of the Niacin acid tablets did you take this time? And did you flush? tingle?I took two tablets, 50mg each, had no flush at all. But I think I made a mistake, 100mg is too small dose for me, although the instruction states that 100mg is max one time dose for this tablets. Yesterday night I had a hard time to sleep and had a tension feelings in my head. Today I've waken up with 20% of POIS I think, had the disgusting feeling of POIS beginning. I had a thought - omg, am I going to break out to POIS completely.... After two hours of morning walk with my wife from 4 am to 6 am, I had a feeling of body fighting the POIS and now I think I'm recovered, but lets see how it goes during the day.
It almost seems like the flushing effect should be in full bloom for the orgasm.I think you are almost right. But I think the flush effect is the indicator only at the start, after a while your body starts to get used to drug and after that there will be almost no flush. At least this is the case for XN, but still the original dose works, I don't need to increase it.
If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/I had the statement in my instruction that 500mg is max one-time dose for these XN tablets. I think you have either different XN tablets or you have slow release pills.
Thanks jivetalk, great tests.... although the quantity consumed is getting to be quite high.Thanks Daveman.
It would be better that we reduce our orgasm cycles enough to be able to keep the "histamine release threshold a little lower" and therefore Niacin dosage lower, than to damage our livers. One or even two oragsms per week with Niacin / XN is a lot better than POIS without it and cycles of two orgasms per month.
Just a note, Rather than the flush being the cause of symptom reduction, the hypothesis is that the histamine release caused by the flush may be short curcuiting the histamine cycle of orgasm which causes POIS. So even though the actual FLUSH lasts a short time, the histamine release has been triggered.
If the threshold is too high, even the flush won't trigger it. And the hypothesis is, that in taking the Niacin / XN we cause the histamine release and raise the threshold for the period of the orgasm.
If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/I had the statement in my instruction that 500mg is max one-time dose for these XN tablets. I think you have either different XN tablets or you have slow release pills.
Victor
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.
Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.
Sample below...
Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.
Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.
This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.
Studies suggest NADH may also help:
Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.NADH looks to be a nicotinamide. The amide version of niacin/ nicotinic acid does not cause flushing, and therefor may not help us. (I'm not saying it's not worth a try, I just wanted to point this out)
Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.
Sample below...
Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.
Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.
This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.
Studies suggest NADH may also help:
Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.
Right now I'm trying to determine minimal doses and effect on my POIS of different XN and different Niacin acid forms (oral / injectable), to provide other people with the direction for doing their own experiments. And when we have a few people with some results we can build statistics. Based on this statistics we can refine our hypothesis and continue doing more informative experiments.
Victor
... So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly. Took one 150mg xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro....
I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.
... Unfortunately you don't have XN in tablets easily available in USA and Europe, but from whatever reason I thought that you have.
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....
... Unfortunately you don't have XN in tablets easily available in USA and Europe, but from whatever reason I thought that you have.Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....
International Antiaging Systems (IAS) or (Antiaging-systems.com) ships XN pills via a supplement named Xan-Pro. It costs $20 for a 50 pill bottle and can be shipped world-wide. I've ordered countless items on this website over the last 5 years and have never had a problem. A couple of us have even ordered the Xan-Pro from IAS and have already gotten it. So I don't think it's a stretch to say that XN is easily available! I ordered some last week and I got it to my place in California within 7 days- Awesome!
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.
Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.
Sample below...
Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.
Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.
This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.
Studies suggest NADH may also help:
Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.
Jivetalk,
There are other providers of this compund? How expensive is it and how hard is it to get?
We can always test it. Sometime the derivitives are better for "the intended use" but might not be better for POIS. At this stage, I tink we should be open to testing of a larger range, but should be careful not to mix the tests or confuse the influence of one type over the effects of another.
I've been thinking of setting up some labs here to better control all the various tests.
We should have one lab to test XN, another to test Nicotinic Acid, amybe another to test a derivitive similar to this mentioned here. But we should try to resist mixing and change between test types.
If we have interested parties and individuals who will volunteer for more controlled tests of individual elements, let me know and I start to set up the space.
Hi all,
I also had a chance to test Niacin on myself. On Thursday, I took 300 mg of Niacin on a mostly empty stomach, about 40 minutes before O. The 'flush' came on pretty quickly (within 5 minutes or so); it was definitely quite noticeable and lasted about an hour--continuing for about 20 minutes after the O.
Results:
The O was at 6:00 pm. In the hour or so immediately following the O, I felt better than usual. I didn't feel the usual initial feelings of POIS 'creeping up.' So that was a positive start. However, later in the evening, I was feeling a bit out of it, so I began to think that the niacin hadn't prevented POIS.
However, when I woke up the next morning (Friday), I found that I did NOT have the usual POIS brainfog and emotional/cognitive fatigue. I would say that the POIS feelings were only at about 15-20% of their usual. It was certainly a noticeable difference, so perhaps the niacin was effective! Moreover, the 15-20% lasted throughout the whole day.
So, I would so that the initial experiment was a success. I'm not sure what accounted for the less-good feelings of the later evening of Day 0, but Day 1 was certainly a big improvement. Did the niacin simply shorten the POIS episode, so that it mostly ended while I slept on Thursday night? Or perhaps it prevented POIS entirely, while the problems of the Day 0 evening were not POIS, but a reaction to the niacin.
In any case, I will need to test it again. Perhaps I should use a little less niacin, since a one-hour flush seems a bit long. But, it will be good to see if the overall effect is replicable, and if so, how the dosage affects things, and also whether being 'in flush' right at the moment of O makes a difference.
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.NADH looks to be a nicotinamide. The amide version of niacin/ nicotinic acid does not cause flushing, and therefor may not help us. (I'm not saying it's not worth a try, I just wanted to point this out)
Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.
Sample below...
Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.
Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.
This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.
Studies suggest NADH may also help:
Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.
from wikipedia...
Nicotinamide, also known as niacinamide and nicotinic acid amide, is the amide of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3 / niacin).. Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacologic and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing
... So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly. Took one 150mg xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro....I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.
Silverandcol - I'm confused about this as well. The Xan-Pro (XN) that you bought comes in 150mg tablets. So are you saying you took (1) Xan-Pro tablet AND also (1) 42mg Niacin pill???
Hi B_Daniel,
This is excellent. If the XN pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.
Hi B_Daniel,
I think they are slightly different somehow, but you may be right...I'm only basing this on the fact that NADH is marketed separately from - Niacidimide.
In Any case, even though you purchased the Niacidimide, did you try that for POIS at all?
Hi B_Daniel,
This is excellent. If the XN pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.
I need to experiment more so that I have some actual evidence to bestow upon the group. My short update so far though is that I tried my Xan-Pro (XN) for the first time last night. I took 2 (150mg) tablets. Problem was I essentially took the pills right after the O. Today I feel like crap, with 75%+ POIS. I've done nothing all day but mess around online and watch TV. What a way to live my life. Next time I can assure you I'll be taking the XanPro far in advance of the O - and hopefully I'll have more promising results to share.
jivetalk!!
Great news, lets hope that others can get the same results.
Make those T-Shirts and lets sell then to raise funds for our research.
We are so close with this that the research should be able to devise a definitve cure much more easily. Something that doesn;t damage the stomach and liver and something that doesn't cause the flush.
But in the meantime..EXTATIC
.....
Make those T-Shirts and lets sell then to raise funds for our research.
We are so close with this that the research should be able to devise a definitve cure much more easily. Something that doesn;t damage the stomach and liver and something that doesn't cause the flush.
But in the meantime..EXTATIC
As far as I know, Niacin pills are available over the counter just about anywhere. That's the beauty of it.
Any place that sells vitamins should have them.
I should be picking up Niacin tomorrow. I'm in day 2 so I'll very likely wait until I'm "free".
This will give me a bit of time to test the dosage (for flush and reaction), maybe up to two tests depending how the first one goes. I'm going to start with 100mg, being as I'm not sure how I'll react.
The vasomotor response of dopamine and dopaminergic agonists was studies on feline isolated middle cerebral arteries in vitro and pial arterioles in situ following microapplication. The action of various inhibitors was tested to define the receptors involved. The contractile response could be blocked by alpha-receptor as well as serotonin receptor antagonists. The mode of inhibition suggested that serotonin receptors rather than alpha-adrenoceptors mediated the dopamine-induced contraction. A dose-dependent dilation could be evoked by the dopaminergic agonists on actively contracting pial arteries in vitro and by apomorphine in situ. The relative potency for the agonists together with blocking experiments indicated that the vasodilation was mediated by specific dopamine receptors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/676925QuoteThe vasomotor response of dopamine and dopaminergic agonists was studies on feline isolated middle cerebral arteries in vitro and pial arterioles in situ following microapplication. The action of various inhibitors was tested to define the receptors involved. The contractile response could be blocked by alpha-receptor as well as serotonin receptor antagonists. The mode of inhibition suggested that serotonin receptors rather than alpha-adrenoceptors mediated the dopamine-induced contraction. A dose-dependent dilation could be evoked by the dopaminergic agonists on actively contracting pial arteries in vitro and by apomorphine in situ. The relative potency for the agonists together with blocking experiments indicated that the vasodilation was mediated by specific dopamine receptors.
Btw, forgot to say. I tried having 2 - 3 O's after taking 150mg in Niacin Acid tablets and had no POIS after that. Seems effect of niacin lasts for many hours.
Victor
Victor, would you mind to answer me some questions, they are very important for me.Hi Observer.
Have you changed your diet since you know you have POIS?
Do you feel a worsening of POIS symptoms when you take foods with high glycemic index(Sugars, red meat, creams, desserts...)?
If the answer is yes; if you take foods like this(with high levels) before taking Niacin and having an Orgasm, do you develop symptoms? I ask you that because i have noted that if i have eaten a big salad, fruits, and then i took fenugreek prior having an orgasm, i will develop less POIS symptoms than if i take meat, desserts and then fenugreek...
The last question: You take your nicotinic acid pills, you have the flush, and you have the orgasm 1-2-3 hours later. It doesn´t matter if you eat a lot of desserts after that, that you´re going to not have POS because you have fully eliminated the symptoms?
Thank you very much!
Quote from: victor.konsQuote from: jivetalkI still feel some flush, but it is much less stronger than before. And I ensure that I have first O at least 60 minutes after Niacin.Quote from: victor.konsQuote from: KingkongI'M reading each of you since almost 2 1/2 years from now. I'M 51 years old and I'M a pois sufferer since 12 years now. But like some of you, I tried NIACIN recently and the result are very very good for me.Hi Kingkong,
1) The day of O, I'M taking 300 mg 30 minutes before O.
2) If I don't sleep about one hour after O, I'M 50-60% POIS free, IF I sleep for maximum 1 hour after O' when I wake up, Im 90% free.
3) The day after O (day 1), I'm taking 100 mg when I wake up in the morning. During the day, I take other 100 mg when I feel that POIS is coming back. I can take maximum 900 mg the day of O and maximum 500 mg the day after.
4) Day 2, I'M taking 100 mg in the morning, an another 100 mg in the afternoon and I'M still 90 % POIS free.
5) Day 3, 100 mg and I'M 95% POIS free.
6) DAy 4, 100 mg, 100% POIS free.
I must say that I'M very happy whith this result and my girl friend too!
Demografx, I didn't receive your mail that every one must receive from you. Tank you.
Thank you for your report! I'm glad that Niacin helps you too.
From what you write it looks like you are taking too much Niacin after O, whereas the point is to take the minimum _necessary_ dose of Niacin _prior_ to O so that you don't have to take any Niacin after O, because taking Niacin after O has far less effect. You said that you wait 30 minutes, sounds like too short time before O. After taking niacin pills we usually wait 60 minutes, you should feel the flush and let it starting go away before you have the O.
Victor
Hi Victor, As you know I've been taking 300mg for a little while now - and I can barely feel the Flush anymore if I take it at night (after dinner). (I can feel it if I take it on an empty stomach in the morning)
When you take 150mg especially after food - Do you still feel the Flush at all? or do you Just time it, and ensure that you O at least 60 minutes after Niacin?
Victor
Thanks Victor
this supports the allergy theory of niacin. it uses up the histamine necessary to cause allergic reaction from orgasm.
Niacin, taken orally as nicotinic acid, can produce redness, warmth, and itching over areas of the skin; this "niacin flush" usually occurs when doses of 50mg or more are taken and is a result of the release of histamine by the cells, which causes vasodilation. This reaction is harmless; it may even be helpful by enhancing blood flow to the "flushed" areas, and it lasts only 10-20 minutes. When these larger doses of niacin are taken regularly, this reaction no longer occurs because stores of histamine are reduced.
It's my impression that the flush, and particularly the histamine release is required, but we could try this. As you say, if all the histamine is "used up", this may be all that's required.
BTW I understand that the flush and the histamine release are two different things. The flush my instigate the histamine release, but does not guarantee it. The flush produces the conditions where the histamine release mechanism can activate.
Anyways we should have a couple of people taking a dose close to the flush barrier. They shouldn't reduce their dose to try to test this theory, but should let their system raise the flush barrier. With time and regular dosage this will happen automatically. Or to speed it up, they could take the same dosage that they are now taking but a couple of times more per day, spaced out throughout the day. This way the same dosage before orgasm won't produce the flush.
And we can see then if POIS is still "short-curcuited" or not. Orgasm frequency shouldn't be changed in this period.
This test should be done with someone who already has a stable positive niacin reaction against POIS.
I wonder why though we would go this route, when the idea is to try to keep the niacin ingestion to a minimum? Regular and increased doses, always have the risk of damaging the liver.
I suppose one answer to this question may be that it may be inevitable that the flush threshold will rise with time, and higher and higer doses will be required. So if we can function below the flush threshold with continued POIS relief we can avoid taking more and more to maintain the flush.
However it may be healthier to maintain orgasm frequency below a certain level, so as not to overwork the system. 2 or 3 per week is still MUCH better than once every 4 to 6 wks.
I think we may all agree as well, that niacin MAY not be a cure and is only a temporary solution until we find the cure. HOPEFULLY, the niacin effect will also lead us to understanding the cure.
Hey guys, I took Niacin for the first time yesterday and took it twice, once int he morning and once at night. I took 200mg and didnt feel much so at night I took about 400mg. I didnt feel much more than a little tingling and waited until it subsided to have an orgasm. It did not prevent my POIS. I dont know if I didnt take enough or its sumply not working but 400 mg seems like a lot for the first day. Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?
It did not prevent my POIS. I dont know if I didnt take enough or its sumply not working but 400 mg seems like a lot for the first day. Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?
Yes I did. I guess i'll try taking more but 400 seemed like a lot for the first day.
kk -
That is reallllly helpful information! We've been speculating about the full stomach/ weak results thing but it's good to get more evidence of that through you.
I've still got a whole bunch of outstanding Niacin quesions:
One thing I've been hypothesizing, and which your post helped me to recall, kk, is that - And tell me if this is crazy - but taking Niacin and having an O a few days in a row seems to reduce my POIS by a little more every day. Now intuitively you'd think the opposite. You'd think stringing 4 O's, 4 days in a row would completely shut me down, lights out. But 4 days, 4 times Niacin, 4 O's, and I'll start to feel really good.
So then if that's the case, i wonder whether I'd be feeling as good had I had (1) O, and then taken Niacin for 4 days after, or if having that O helps somehow?
Next question of mine is whether the flush is necessary. Here's the thought process. We eat. Then take B3. Then O. Reduced Results? It seems that way. BUT, Every time somebody has taken niacin on a full stomach, it was their first couple times trying Niacin. And maybe it works better after a few times in a row? OR on the other hand, as we've all been guessing already, it could not work as well because A) niacin doesnt absorb as quickly on the full stomach or B) We don't get the flush. B is really A too, but A is not B, if you follow.
So ppl keep reporting your results!
As far as the full stomach, I saw a couple of places on internet, I don't have the links right now, that eating before taking the Niacin reduces the flsuh. This was advice for those who don't seek the flush, which is the case for most Niacin users. Even doctors will recommend things, like taking asperin beforehand or taking it on a full stomach to reduce the flush.
There still might be a doubt as to whether the flush is required / helpful. I understood that it IS better with the flush....
Reading the post that Starsky made, I'm thinking that getting the flush assures you that there is a sufficient dose enough to assure adequate B3 in the system to manage histmaine /serotonine/ dopamine production also required after orgasm.
Hi all,To be fair I can't stop thinking about this :) I think we should try this for sure! Especially the people that tried taking Niacin already and don't have 100% reduce of POIS symptoms should try the same dose they took but with powdered Niacin and see whether there will be a difference.
Some very very interesting articles on Niacin, How much you can take, finding the flush threshold, and Niacin being used to cure other diseases.
http://www.doctoryourself.com/niacin.html
http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html
http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html
I tried this bit of advice the other night....."If you want a flush right away, you can powder the niacin tablet. " ....... This was about 3 hours after a heavy meal. Within about 5-10 Minutes I was flushing! I did take 300mg of powdered Niacin (crushed with a spoon).
Victor - Perhaps this is an alternative to using XN injections if we are able to have the flush appear so soon?. . What do you think?
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesn't give me the flush or i don't notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i don't flush.
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesnt give me the flush or i dont notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i dont flush.I confirm that I have less flush with XN too, but its as effective as Niacin to prevent POIS for me.
okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.
The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesnt give me the flush or i dont notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i dont flush.
Hi Victor
Is there any theory so far that would explain why Niacin and XN seem to work so well.
I tried 200mg niacin and the flush was way worse than 300mg xanthinol nicotinate, but what scared me was the way it spiked my heart rate.Thats what I would advice too. XN is generally easier for the body from whatever reason. Niacin is harder beast and one should start low and build up gradually.
I will advice people to try xanthinol nicotinate instead of niacin if they are going to try niacin start low and build up. My heart rate level was once again scary.
I tried 200mg niacin and the flush was way worse than 300mg xanthinol nicotinate, but what scared me was the way it spiked my heart rate.Thats what I would advice too. XN is generally easier for the body from whatever reason. Niacin is harder beast and one should start low and build up gradually.
I will advice people to try xanthinol nicotinate instead of niacin if they are going to try niacin start low and build up. My heart rate level was once again scary.
Victor
Yes, it IS vitamine B3.
BTW, Does Dr. Goldmeier know about the effects of Niacin, or at least how it potentially helps?
Yeh, I made that mistake twice, sometimes, I just can't help it though =(. Taking after is definitely way less effective. I do have the theory though that if you are already in POIS, you can remove it by taking xan-pro the next day right before ejaculation. Not sure why that would work but I have a feeling it would clear away the previous POIS by giving you a flushed orgasm.
If you have POIS symptoms run out after this it would be absolutely fantastic. And if this is so, several of us should verify this finding, it could be VERY informative for our NORD POIS research, I think.
Yeh, I made that mistake twice, sometimes, I just can't help it though =(. Taking after is definitely way less effective. I do have the theory though that if you are already in POIS, you can remove it by taking xan-pro the next day right before ejaculation. Not sure why that would work but I have a feeling it would clear away the previous POIS by giving you a flushed orgasm.
I quote this on purpose. Unfortunately, i had an NE before waking up and i could feel the hateful POIS symptoms growing on my body(bad digestion) and on my mind(feeling weird, brain fog increasing) .I usually get POIS symptoms very fast after the O. , and i could notice that something is going on on my head seconds after the Orgasm. So, frustrated, i decided to read this post again to find the quote in bold.
I ate a light breakfast, mostly fruits and compotes and then i decided to take 100 mg Niacin. This time was very different from yesterday. I got a very intense flush. My ears and neck were so red, and i can feel the hot everywhere. Some parts of my body and my arms turned red, too. Then i waited 50 minutes to have an Orgasm. All i can say is that Niacin is better than Fenugreek, better than Garlic and Goji Berries all combined. I feel no POIS, absolutely no brain fog(maybe i´m a little bit tired due to i didn´t sleep well) and i am waiting to make the lunch(one that has more than vegetables) to watch if the brain fog appears. I will update later.
I will update later.
I just took my first 100 mg niacin with the intention to watch the effects it produces on my body, (I do not want to have an O- at this moment, i want to stop at 200 mg the next week), and it seems that the flush has been weak( I just ate a lot), and maybe i feel a small increase of heart rate.By the way, I want to ask jive-talk if he is having the same good results with niacin or if he has achieved to lower the doses. I will update with my niacin results.
This has to be one of the best days of my life. I have had two orgasms in the same day and i feel 100% free of brain fog, my mind is clear, excellent mood... A decisive victory against POIS but the battle is not over. It would have been impossible if not were for all the people that come here to fight against this condition. Thank you very much. :)
Observer. Congratulations - I am VERY VERY Glad for you.
Please Keep us Posted.
Observer. Congratulations - I am VERY VERY Glad for you.
Please Keep us Posted.
Thank you very much jivetalk for your support! :)
Today, (usually the worst day) i slept very well and i can function as a normal person. I will continue to post my next experiences with niacin.
Can anybody relate on any level?
Niacin, my personnal 1st trial :
I have eaten little glucide (bread,Nutella) took Niacin 500 mg in a half full stomach and got an intense flush after 20 minutes (tingling inside the brain and red upper part) . I started to get aroused when I felt this flush and then decided to get an O about 1 hour later and I still got a part of the flush after the O. I am feeling in POIS right now :-[.
I hope it was just a wrong way to use it... do you have some advice? thank you :)
Thank you Daveman :) I only get the 500 mg pill 1*500 mg :s The only version I found in the UK !
They do not say anything about the release but I guess it was since the flush was fast to come and intense. I took the "Solgar" brand Niacin 500mg.
Hey guys Id like to share my experience with Niacin. I had to take nearly 500 mg because smaller doses werent affecting me. I didnt feel a flush until I got stimulated and erect. The more aroused I became is when I started to feel a lot of heat in my head (felt like in my brain) and ears. I figured it was the flush but it didnt really pass (Mind you this was a good hour after I had taken the niacin). Afterwards I felt kind of crippled couldnt really get up, for some reason I was hesitant to move and my nerves were very sensitive, It wasnt physically painful to move but it was very difficult. My groin area was also very sensitive. I dont feel that it helped my POIS although near a week after I do feel more completely recovered than usual.
Can anybody relate on any level?
Thanks,
Jon.
Thank you for your advice :) ! 6 Hours after the O, i have a very heavy head, everything seems locked inside the brain +nose+throat. I will try to split one pill and see when i start to get the flush (100 mg, 200 mg...) and will wait until it is totally finished, will update.
You have to be a damn detective to figure out if these Vitamins are flush-free or not.. it's damn ridiculous!I think you are right here B_Daniel. These pills seem to vary very much. And we need somehow distinguish the good fast release Niacin. My Niacin tablets come in doses of 50mg. But here is a funny thing. I've bought the tablets of the different producer and they seems working far much worser. They even smell different. The "good" Niacin tablets have specific smell that is pretty strong. The "bad" Niacin tablets of other producer smell much weaker. So... seems its a task in itself to find good Niacin supplier. Sigh...
We have now had SO many instances of people buying 500mg, 750mg, and 1000mg Niacin pills and not getting good results.
I think it is a fair rule of thumb, that if your niacin comes in pills of over 250mg, you have the slow-release, or some other format, regardless of what the label on the bottle does or doesn't say. So if you're using a 500mg Niacin and it's not working, go find a 100mg pill and try again!
You have to be a damn detective to figure out if these Vitamins are flush-free or not.. it's damn ridiculous!I totally agree with you :) and thank you also Quasar for the 100 mg/500 mg components research. I live in France so I will have to order it (been to London exceptionally to see Dr Goldmeier) and thank you for the link !
We have now had SO many instances of people buying 500mg, 750mg, and 1000mg Niacin pills and not getting good results.
I think it is a fair rule of thumb, that if your niacin comes in pills of over 250mg, you have the slow-release, or some other format, regardless of what the label on the bottle does or doesn't say. So if you're using a 500mg Niacin and it's not working, go find a 100mg pill and try again!
Victor, do you really dont feel the difrence how niacin and xn change the impact of POIS? I think XN is much better.
Can you cut the pill in half? Try to take 250mg, or crush it into a powder and take 1/5 (100mg)? Remeber, Victor mentioned that in powdered form it enters the system a little faster so 100mg might be like 125mg.Powdered tablets are better, the faster they enter the system - the better you feel the flush and the less the chances that you will have O too early, also stomach should be less irritated, because substance is not so concentrated. I think its better to take powdered forms of XN/Niacin for all of us.
It's always better to start on the safe side, and if it's not enough increase slowly.
I took XN, what i noticed... i dont get a rash on my skin while i try to test my allergy. Before XN i got it every time.
Can you cut the pill in half? Try to take 250mg, or crush it into a powder and take 1/5 (100mg)? Remeber, Victor mentioned that in powdered form it enters the system a little faster so 100mg might be like 125mg.Powdered tablets are better, the faster they enter the system - the better you feel the flush and the less the chances that you will have O too early, also stomach should be less irritated, because substance is not so concentrated. I think its better to take powdered forms of XN/Niacin for all of us.
It's always better to start on the safe side, and if it's not enough increase slowly.
Victor
I took XN, what i noticed... i dont get a rash on my skin while i try to test my allergy. Before XN i got it every time.
What do you mean in this case "test your allergy"?. I ask because I had been wondering if we could start a desensitization program and take XN or Niacin in the meantime to reduce suffereing. But if it reduces the allergic effect, it might hinder the desensitization process!
When i put the semen on my skin and wait 30min it doesnt react with XN. I think desensitization occurs even when you take antihistamines.
I have a 1g slow release pills from a german pharmacy - drug called COMPLAMIN speziall, which i crushed, but i take now this product http://www.supersmart.com/en--Vitamins--Xanthinol-nicotinate-150-mg--0444
Just a question as well.. If you take Niacin after O, does it still have an effect, and if so, IS the effect as strong as if you take it before having an orgasm? If anyone has had any experience with this, I would lovee to hear :D
The skin reaction to semen comes back to "normal" after 6 h after intake of XN.Starsky, according to your results it looks like XN/Niacin works as anti-allergen/anti-histamine drug for preventing POIS-allergy symptoms. But I wonder why other anti-allergen's/anti-histamines seem not have such a strong effect?
Just a question as well.. If you take Niacin after O, does it still have an effect, and if so, IS the effect as strong as if you take it before having an orgasm? If anyone has had any experience with this, I would lovee to hear :D
I have had 4 Orgasms more after taking the niacin:
First: 200 mg Niacin - weak flush- waited 1 hour to orgasm : NO POIS symptoms.
Second: 100mg + 200 mg - Did not feel the flush after the first dose(i ate so much) so decided to jump - moderate flush waited 1 hour: NO POIS symptoms again!!!
Third: 200 mg - weak flush - Had the orgasm a little after the flush: Some POIS symptoms developed, mild brainfog.
Fourth: The next day , and with some POIS, i had another orgasm: 200 mg - intense flush(empty stomach) : NO POIS symptoms, maybe i feel a little tired during the morning, but on the afternoon i was 100% again.
I suggest you to have another orgasm if you already have POIS symptoms (but with the niacin flush). That would wippe of the previous POIS symptoms, it has happened to me twice!!!. Niacin is the right option!! :)
It is great to hear your continued success with Niacin Observer!
Thank you for your report Observer! Your results support the idea that powdered form is better, wonderful.
It is great to hear your continued success with Niacin Observer!
Thank you very much jivetalk!! I am sure that 200 mg Niacin is the right option, maybe a little less, because with 100 mg Niacin i still got some very minor symptoms during 1-2 days, (still a very big improvement). I am always getting the flush( and an intense one) since i crush the niacin(3 days ago) and i take in the powder form... 100% effective, absolutely no POIS, always flush, no stomach problems... This is wonderful!!!
When you take niacin in powdered form do you just swallow the powder with water like you would with a pill?Yes, exactly.
When you take niacin in powdered form do you just swallow the powder with water like you would with a pill?
I doubt you'd want to take 200 to 300mg of niacin daily due to possible liver damage. I'm not sure what the safe amount is to take daily.
I doubt you'd want to take 200 to 300mg of niacin daily due to possible liver damage. I'm not sure what the safe amount is to take daily.
Actually, I don't think this is necessarily true. Obviously, it is important to be cautious in taking any supplement. However, in pretty much all the different sources I've looked at, the 'liver-risky' dosage is often listed at 3 g (= 3000 mg) per day. The lowest number that I've seen anywhere for a 'liver-risky' dosage is 1 g (= 1000 mg) per day. On top of that, it is specifically the slow-release form of niacin that has the most risks for the liver. As such, from what I've read, it seems that taking up to 1000 mg per day of the 'regular' (i.e. 'flushing') variety of niacin does not appear to be dangerous for the liver. And so 300 mg per day would certainly seem to fall well within this non-risk range.
If I'm wrong about this, please correct me -- we shouldn't gloss over risks, but we also should avoid over-stating them.
Flush has occurred in all the cases, but the intensity has been very very different and POIS has been blocked in some way!----> This points to me that the intensity of the flush is not the most important factor whenever you get it, but the amount of niacin taken, that it seems could change a lot depending on the person.
I agree on Guthrie that we should find a reasonable dose to not inflict damage on the liver and we need take it only when neccesary(i think it must be an error taking it every day!), and the dose that is working on me 100% seems to be more than 100 mg and less than 200 mg.
I think you may have misunderstood some of the information out there. It's ONLY safe to take 1000mg of niacin a day if you're taking the slow release version. A great many people take between 500 - 1500 mg of niacin a day for cholesterol regulation, but all of that diffuses into your body over the course of 10 or so hours, so there's not an especially large shock to your liver.
Evidence exists that sustained-release niacin, with respect to both dosage and severity, is more hepatotoxic than crystalline niacin. Three patients who developed hepatitis during treatment with sustained-release niacin were rechallenged with equivalent or higher doses of crystalline niacin, with no evidence of recurring hepatocellular damage.
Although the mechanism for niacin-induced hepatitis is unknown, these cases support previous observations that crystalline niacin may be less hepatotoxic than sustained-release preparations in certain patients. NIACIN (nicotinic acid) is an effective hypolipidemic agent available in several forms, including crystalline preparations ("regular" niacin) and various forms of sustained-release (or slow-release SR) capsules and caplets.
I see. Thanks Daveman.
I'm not sure if Niacin is working for me, I get a strange effect from it. Ive took almost 500 mg both times ive used it and have barely felt a flush either time, Only a little tingling in the face. Both times I had the O and both nights my sleep was very uncomfortable, Almost like im frozen in bed and it is very irritating to move, A very weird feeling. I do admit that I feel a little better ont he first day of POIS than usual but the effects are still there. Im using Gnc Niacin 250 mg tablets. Anyone else having these symptoms? Also does anyone know if its ok to take Cialis with Niacin.
Thanks guys.
I see.. interesting. Yes I do take it at night about 45 minutes before orgasm. Good tips, I will try not eating for a few hours and I will crush it. Can I ask what type of Niacin did you buy?
Quote from: GuthrieHas anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?
I have been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not Nicotinamide) and I am told it is a non-flushing type and its been working very well.... at 1000mg dose few hours before.... but I have noted that taking it daily and having O when ever seems also to work decently also.....
And I need to also say AGAIN that my brain fog left once I stopped taking caffeine, no coffee, no softdrink/soda with caffeine, no chocolate.....
However I still suffer from anger, some social withdrawl, and as long as I am on Niacinamide the all over horrible body feelings are down 70%
PS.
OK, sounds interesting. I think it's still compatible with this line though
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0
Guthrie, keep us posted on how the Niacinamide is working. I agree with you that the flush may not have anything to do with the effectiveness of Niacin on pois. I stated earlier that in the medical field that the flush is a side effect and has no effect on any of the therapeutic uses we have for Niacin. What I am trying to say is that I don't know of any uses for niacin in medicine where the flush needs to be felt to have a therapeutic effect on the patient. It would be nice to see some more tests by people so we can determine the effectiveness of flush free niacin, which would be better to take to aviod having a flush every time especially for people who highly sensitive to the niacin flush. I personally took 50mg a few years back and had the worst possible reaction.Quote from: POIS-SUFFERERQuote from: GuthrieHas anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?
I have been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not Nicotinamide) and I am told it is a non-flushing type and its been working very well.... at 1000mg dose few hours before.... but I have noted that taking it daily and having O when ever seems also to work decently also.....
And I need to also say AGAIN that my brain fog left once I stopped taking caffeine, no coffee, no softdrink/soda with caffeine, no chocolate.....
However I still suffer from anger, some social withdrawl, and as long as I am on Niacinamide the all over horrible body feelings are down 70%
PS.
A new and enouraging development: when I read POIS-SUFFERER's response, I was somewhat surprised. Niacinamide (= Nicotinamide) is a non-flushing form of niacin. So, since we had generally had been attributing the success of both niacin and XN to its flushing properties, then one would think that the non-flushing form wouldn't be effective for POIS. But, it apparently *was* working for POIS-SUFFERER. So, what to make of this seeming contradiction?
I said to myself, "Hmmm, what would Galileo do?" So, I went out and got a bottle of Niacinamide (which is a non-flushing form -- not the same as 'slow release niacin', which *is* flushing, but has a spread-out, rather than concentrated effect). Last night, I took two 550 mg capsules, for a total of 1100 mg. There was no flush whatsoever. Two and a half hours after taking the capsules, I had an O. The next day: essentially 90% POIS-free!!! Possibly even 95%! And, this was in terms of basically all of my normal POIS symptoms: brain fog, mood, concentration, energy. Definitely a noticeable difference even from the effect of my last trial, with 300 mg of the regular (flushing) variety of niacin, and which had worked pretty well (80-85%). It may be that the overall amount (1100 mg vs. 300 mg) had something to do with it as well.
So, while I'll have to test it again to rule out one-time effect or placebo, the non-flushing Niacinamide seems pretty clearly to have worked *very* well. This seems to reconfigure our basic hypotheses about why niacin works: from this result, it would seem that it is not the flushing that makes a difference at all! Rather, it would seem to have to be some property that regular (flushing) niacin also shares with the non-flushing variety.
So, what is that property? Not sure at this point, but even just this result can help point us in the proper direction. I will certainly be testing it again, and others may want to try Niacinamide/Nicotinamide to see how your results compare to the flushing variety. In my case, it was also an added bonus not to have to experience the flush, which was often pretty uncomfortable for me with the itching/heat.
We shall see...
I don't think anyone stated anywhere that the flush is needed to prevent POIS symptoms. I think no one said so. But it was told that it is recommended to seek for the flush at the start of taking Niacin. Because flush is an indicator that you indeed have Niacin and when flush goes out it is a good indicator that you have waited long enough and could proceed with O. But the flush is just an indicator.Guthrie, keep us posted on how the Niacinamide is working. I agree with you that the flush may not have anything to do with the effectiveness of Niacin on pois. I stated earlier that in the medical field that the flush is a side effect and has no effect on any of the therapeutic uses we have for Niacin. What I am trying to say is that I don't know of any uses for niacin in medicine where the flush needs to be felt to have a therapeutic effect on the patient. It would be nice to see some more tests by people so we can determine the effectiveness of flush free niacin, which would be better to take to aviod having a flush every time especially for people who highly sensitive to the niacin flush. I personally took 50mg a few years back and had the worst possible reaction.Quote from: POIS-SUFFERERQuote from: GuthrieHas anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?
I have been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not Nicotinamide) and I am told it is a non-flushing type and its been working very well.... at 1000mg dose few hours before.... but I have noted that taking it daily and having O when ever seems also to work decently also.....
And I need to also say AGAIN that my brain fog left once I stopped taking caffeine, no coffee, no softdrink/soda with caffeine, no chocolate.....
However I still suffer from anger, some social withdrawl, and as long as I am on Niacinamide the all over horrible body feelings are down 70%
PS.
A new and enouraging development: when I read POIS-SUFFERER's response, I was somewhat surprised. Niacinamide (= Nicotinamide) is a non-flushing form of niacin. So, since we had generally had been attributing the success of both niacin and XN to its flushing properties, then one would think that the non-flushing form wouldn't be effective for POIS. But, it apparently *was* working for POIS-SUFFERER. So, what to make of this seeming contradiction?
I said to myself, "Hmmm, what would Galileo do?" So, I went out and got a bottle of Niacinamide (which is a non-flushing form -- not the same as 'slow release niacin', which *is* flushing, but has a spread-out, rather than concentrated effect). Last night, I took two 550 mg capsules, for a total of 1100 mg. There was no flush whatsoever. Two and a half hours after taking the capsules, I had an O. The next day: essentially 90% POIS-free!!! Possibly even 95%! And, this was in terms of basically all of my normal POIS symptoms: brain fog, mood, concentration, energy. Definitely a noticeable difference even from the effect of my last trial, with 300 mg of the regular (flushing) variety of niacin, and which had worked pretty well (80-85%). It may be that the overall amount (1100 mg vs. 300 mg) had something to do with it as well.
So, while I'll have to test it again to rule out one-time effect or placebo, the non-flushing Niacinamide seems pretty clearly to have worked *very* well. This seems to reconfigure our basic hypotheses about why niacin works: from this result, it would seem that it is not the flushing that makes a difference at all! Rather, it would seem to have to be some property that regular (flushing) niacin also shares with the non-flushing variety.
So, what is that property? Not sure at this point, but even just this result can help point us in the proper direction. I will certainly be testing it again, and others may want to try Niacinamide/Nicotinamide to see how your results compare to the flushing variety. In my case, it was also an added bonus not to have to experience the flush, which was often pretty uncomfortable for me with the itching/heat.
We shall see...
Victor, can you say your POIS over that year got worse or better. If you dont take niacin will your reaction be worse or better than a year ago? Secondly, are you thinking about desensitization or are you happy with your situation?I think my POIS is the same, but the state of the body is better in the sense I am more productive. If I don't take Niacin at first reaction will be better, because the body is not so exhausted, but the reaction is still very strong. I am happy that I shouldn't fight with POIS 2/3 of life time, but I do think about desensitization, and as usual no time for myself.
Victor indicates:here is something interesting I found:
The flush is just indicator.
I read somewhere, that the niacin flush, according to docotrs is an indication that you have reached your sturation level of niacin.
For instance, someone who most needs niacin normally requires more niacin. Each of us has our level, depending on a number of factors. So without the flush it is more difficult to know if you have taken enough or even perhpas more than you require.
It is interesting though what Guthrie says, about how he feels that taking a heavier dose seems to work even better. So we are going to have to experiment.
However, given that we all have different requirement levels, the flush is still a good reference point.
B_Jim,If anyone goes into the doctor to get a blood lab of any type, ask the doc to add histamine and b3 levels onto the test.
Trying to be as flexible as possible, although I agree with you, IF there is a niacin deficiency, one would have to identify the cause of the deficiency.
There may be a B3 deficiency or a B3 dependancy. The former impies that we are low in B3, the latter implies that we don't use the B3 that we have in an efficient way or need more than most.
There are many reasons that this could happen.
Of course my favorite is that, as a result of very high histamine demand, our B3 is heavily consumed. This leads to a deficiency which doesn't leave any important material for construction of neurotransmitters that the brain needs. (dopamine, serotonine etc.).
I feel as though that's why it works when taken prior to orgasm. If we take it prior, we build a good store of B3 for the heavy histamine production to follow. As such, there still remains a good supply for other production required in the chain that follows.
If we take it after, it;s too late. The principal orgasmic chain tries to do it's thing whith what is available, and falls short. Taking it later does little as the production phases of the chain have passed. This might also explain why a subsequent orgasm after taking more B3 has significant effect in recuperation.
It's like feeding the beast when it's hungry. Once it's sick, it doesn't want to eat!! :)
In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?Yes, there were experiences that contradict this and these experiences were described in this thread too many times already.
In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?Yes, there were experiences that contradict this and these experiences were described in this thread too many times already.
Victor
Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction. In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red. I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol. Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity. It still gave a positive reaction. I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm. Maybe...maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.
Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction. In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red. I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol. Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity. It still gave a positive reaction. I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm. Maybe...maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.
are you still getting good results from niacinimideYea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction. In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red. I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol. Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity. It still gave a positive reaction. I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm. Maybe...maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.
Yes, in terms of histamine, it seems like two opposite possibilities have been floated on our forum: 1) the POIS symptoms are related to a release of histamine; and niacin causes a release of histamine beforehand, using it up, so that it is not released with orgasm, and so does not trigger the immune response. *OR* 2) The POIS symptoms are related a deficiency of histamine. Taking niacin produces more histamine, so that the normal amount of histamine can present with orgasm.
So do we have too much histamine, or not enough?
are you still getting good results from niacinimide
interesting, thanks Guthrieare you still getting good results from niacinimide
Yes, I had another O on Thursday night, two hours after taking 1100 mg niacinamide. I had about 85-90% symptom reduction the next day.
Also, I had an unplanned O Saturday night, without taking any niacinamide. But, my POIS today while worse compared to the niacinidamide-aided episode, was still somewhat milder than the full 'normal' POIS. So I wonder whether the niacinamide might have had some carry-over from thee days before, and if so, whether perhaps taking Niacin every day might be useful for building up its POIS-fighting properties. Perhaps it's something to test in the future.
This thread is getting quite long! I've read it from start to finish today and decided to bring together all the posts so far in a sort of summary.
VINCENT MARKUS
100mg Niacin after dinner. Orgasm 1 hour after. Didn't notice a flush but seemed to have more energy than normal in the afternoon of the following day.
200mg Niacin 10 hours after eating. Flush about 30mins after taking tablets. Orgasmed as flush wore off. Felt a bit tired but could think clearly (can't usually). Had a couple more orgasms in the night. Next day felt ok but not 100%. His general stamina and physical energy were increased.
Something from this thread that I think is worth flagging up again:
If Observer has an unplanned orgasm (don't we all!). He seems to be able to get rid of symptoms by taking his usual dose of Niacin and then having another orgasm. To me that's incredibly significant. I get symptoms for about 7 days after O and to be able to knock symptoms on the head like this even after an unplanned O would be amazing. I haven't tried Niacin yet so I don't know if it works for me. I plan to pick some up tomorrow and will report back.
Starsky's allergy test with and without Xanthinol nicotinate was also really interesting.
Thanks for all the tests everyone!! Good luck!
Mellirova -- AMAZING summary!! Thanks so much for compiling it -- it is really helpful to see all at once!
And, let us know what Dr. Goldmeier's response is to the nicain compilation-report!
Hi Daveman,
We should probably create a XN / Niacin summary thread which is just for your summary. We could still keep using this thread, and as certain precedure tend to surface we can include them to the summary thread.
Observer, thanks, I'd like to clarify my understanding of some things you have written here before I modify the summary. Please forgive all my questions, I want to get this right..
Thank you for your sumary Mellivora. I just only want to add that sometimes when i was suffering POIS in the past and i had another orgasm, my symptoms improved. The first time i used the niacin i had a NE as you said, but i only took 100 mg(very intense flush). That made me to recover to 10-20% POIS(still felt minor brain fog during that day/ the next day in some moments). I repeated the experiment tge time when i took the niacin but had the orgasm so soon that unfortunately i developed symptoms. Then, i waited to the next day, and had another good orgasm after taking 200 mg niacin - 1-2 hours after i was feeling very, very well, no POIS.
I wasn't sure what dose of Niacin you took this time. For now I have put 100?mg...Do you remember what dose it was?
(ii) No, i don´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin.
Observer, thanks for clarifying your post, please can you check I've updated your section correctly. Where you said:I wasn't sure what dose of Niacin you took this time. For now I have put 100?mg...Do you remember what dose it was?
(ii) No, i didn´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin.
mellivora, if you do take niacin again perhaps you should take it with food. Although this will prevent the flush some of us have found niacin still helps even without the flush. As I said previously I now take 200mg only once a week soon after dinner. I no longer get a flush because of this but i think i still get the same positive effects.Thanks Vincent, that's good advice. Interesting that you still get the same effect without the flush. Thanks
I started taking Niacin (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VITAMIN-B-3-NIACIN-100mg-x100Caps-24Hr-Despatch-B3-/230534445413?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item35acec7965) on a regular basis last week (2x per day) and it really helps, but only if taken prior to orgasm, otherwise quite useless in terms of alleviation (what a find!).JRD I'd like to add your experiences with Niacin to the Summary I've been compiling. Could you tell us what dose (eg. 100mg) of Niacin you have been taking please? How long before orgasm do you take it? And how strong are your symptoms after using Niacin compared to your symptoms without (eg. 10% of normal intensity )Thanks! I'm pleased to hear its working for you.
I've also been augmenting myself with the whole variety of vitamins & minerals (including high doses of Zinc, Selenium, B12, etc.) without any noticeable success.
However, as I've found, the longer I abstain, the weaker the neuropsychiatric manifestation is, but I simultaneously start suffering from that "flu-like symptoms", which is quite new for me, since I've never been able to hold it out more than a few days. These symptoms usually start to kick in after 8-10 days of abstinence.
JRD I'd like to add your experiences with Niacin to the Summary I've been compiling. Could you tell us what dose (eg. 100mg) of Niacin you have been taking please? How long before orgasm do you take it? And how strong are your symptoms after using Niacin compared to your symptoms without (eg. 10% of normal intensity )Thanks! I'm pleased to hear its working for you.
QuoteJRD I'd like to add your experiences with Niacin to the Summary I've been compiling. Could you tell us what dose (eg. 100mg) of Niacin you have been taking please? How long before orgasm do you take it? And how strong are your symptoms after using Niacin compared to your symptoms without (eg. 10% of normal intensity )Thanks! I'm pleased to hear its working for you.
Thanks. I use 100mg Nicotinic Acid from Nature's way and I took one capsule approximately 30 minutes before orgasm (I had an orgasm 3 times in two hours). I have to say it doesn't matter if I experience flush, which is most likely the result of taking a Niacin supplement on an empty stomach. However, I had both flush (quite strong) and non-flush episodes.I would say, that using Niacin means my symptoms are more manageable, milder, although still at 30 - 40% of their intensity and fatique/weakness at 60 - 70%.
Thanks. I use 100mg Nicotinic Acid from Nature's way and I took one capsule approximately 30 minutes before orgasm (I had an orgasm 3 times in two hours). I have to say it doesn't matter if I experience flush, which is most likely the result of taking a Niacin supplement on an empty stomach. However, I had both flush (quite strong) and non-flush episodes.Thanks JRD, I have added you to the summary. One thing I'm not clear on:
I started taking Niacin (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VITAMIN-B-3-NIACIN-100mg-x100Caps-24Hr-Despatch-B3-/230534445413?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item35acec7965) on a regular basis last week (2x per day) and it really helps, but only if taken prior to orgasm, otherwise quite useless in terms of alleviation (what a find!).And in your 2nd post you said you took 100mg before orgasm. When you say you are taking Niacin twice per day do you mean 100mg early in the day and another 100mg 30mins before O?
Are you taking regular doses of Niacin anyway (eg.daily) whether you orgasm or not?
And in your 2nd post you said you took 100mg before orgasm. When you say you are taking Niacin twice per day do you mean 100mg early in the day and another 100mg 30mins before O?
Thanks JRD. In case you haven't already read, you might find it interesting that, at the start of his trials, Jivetalk was taking 100mg Niacin twice per day and then would take 300mg before an O. However, when he stopped taking his daily doses and only took Niacin before O, he seemed to get much better results. Last we heard he was taking just 100-200mg before O with symptoms reduced to 10-20% intensity. So perhaps you might find you get better results by stopping your regular doses.
You need to try XN. Its much better! Buy some stuff online. I can give you over PM some online stores which can ship it to Chile.if your heart beats right now slowly go up, it is going to beat harder.
Anyways, TODAY I FEEL BETTER THAN I'VE FELT IN AT LEAST A COUPLE OF YEARS!!
Slept like a baby, woke up in the morning with very light POIS symptoms, lighter than I've had in at least a year in the best of times. Then it just got better!
By 11:30, I had been doing stuff, forgetting that I even had POIS. All day, I get a sensation of springtime and youth in my head. I feel freaken GREAT!
So we'll have to see how consistent this is, but first test VERY ENCOURAGING!!!!!!
CC, you mean that I should be careful as I increase doses, because the heart beats harder with higher doses?exactly that.
Congratulations, Daveman!that is the problem with vitamins you never sure if they are all potent.
The Niacin itself reduces tiredness for me too. I have now hard time with finding Niacin tablets, so I've switched back to XN injections for now. Currently I can find only Niacin tablets produced by VAT "Vitaminy", these tablets don't work for me, and I don't understand why. They are the same Niacin Acid tablets I used before, but they are just made by a different producer.
Victor
Thats why I think people shouldn't stop trying Niacin after first failed attempt. It might perfectly be the case that they've got Niacin of insufficient quality and because of that there is no effect. My opinion is that at least 2 - 3 different Niacin suppliers need to be tested to draw the conclusion that Niacin is inefficient for POIS-er person.Congratulations, Daveman!that is the problem with vitamins you never sure if they are all potent.
The Niacin itself reduces tiredness for me too. I have now hard time with finding Niacin tablets, so I've switched back to XN injections for now. Currently I can find only Niacin tablets produced by VAT "Vitaminy", these tablets don't work for me, and I don't understand why. They are the same Niacin Acid tablets I used before, but they are just made by a different producer.
Victor
Thats why I think people shouldn't stop trying Niacin after first failed attempt. It might perfectly be the case that they've got Niacin of insufficient quality and because of that there is no effect. My opinion is that at least 2 - 3 different Niacin suppliers need to be tested to draw the conclusion that Niacin is inefficient for POIS-er person.
Victor
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.
Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid
For me as indicated, VERY effective.
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.
Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid
For me as indicated, VERY effective.
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.
Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid
For me as indicated, VERY effective.
That is also the brand i use.
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.
Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid
For me as indicated, VERY effective.
Thanks Daveman. Really happy for you that the first trial went so well. I have some Nature's Way Niacin capsules on order - I figured they'd be worth trying given that they don't cost much here. I've added you to the summary. I wasn't sure how long after taking the Niacin you orgasmed so haven't written that in specifically. If we get more feedback from people as to the brands they are using I'll add a post below the summary detailing these.
Good job Daveman. In next months, if it's an evidence that B3 is a positive way to reduce Pois, we should send a mail to dr Waldinger.
Good job Daveman. In next months, if it's an evidence that B3 is a positive way to reduce Pois, we should send a mail to dr Waldinger.
That is also the brand i use.
Thanks CC. Could you outline your experiences with Niacin (or XN) a bit more. Sounds like it is working for you? At the moment the only entry I have for you in the summary is:
"CCCONFUCIUS
observed that the flush was “way worse” with 200mg Niacin than with 300mg Xanthinol nicotinate. Also noticed the Niacin “spiked” his heart rate."
It would be great to add your data to the others in the summary which you can read here:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958
If you've already posted your experiences in more detail then sorry I must have missed it, just point me to the post, thanks.
I am still calculating with the fact, that the so-called POIS may be the result of the way, we experience sexual arousal and orgasm. Porn addiction, being a male, frequent self-stimulation and many other variables can represent "positive" co-factors in the development and chronicity of this condition. Niacin, on the other hand, is capable of regulating this way of achieving orgasm due to its aphrodisiac properties.
He clearly suffers from what we call "POIS" and yet he can have intercourse with his wife being brain fog-free.
Any reasonable explanation for this?
An orgasm with fenugreek could be 5 or 6 times less pleasurable than a normal one - i would hardly call fenugreek an aphrodisiac then-.
... the fact, that the so-called POIS may be...
I think we should forget about Dmitry (oh, as soon I wrote this name, I forgot it ;D), and try to understand why it worked !
And if possible, get more information about the suffers who got "cured" with that.
The cognitive effect is proved. I talked about it with my doctor who told me :
-It was a real double(Xanthinol+Nicotinate) effect vasodilator.
-The nicotinate is found in cigarettes and really help to focus on things (one of the only benefit to smoke...never did that) since it helps more glucose and O2 coming into the brain cells.
-Never take a vasodilator if you get heart disorder/operation
-Intramuscular Injections are more efficient than the digestive way and reaches a maximum 100 minutes after injection (it is true what we heard so)
I think that IF XN works, then the POIS is for a part :
only an over cerebral vessels constriction which lasts from the O (arousal for some) until some time (the POIS recovery).
It would mean that our brain takes a very long time to relax the constricted cerebral vessels. Thus, our brain gets less (perhaps a very small difference) O2 and glucose than before. With the time, the vessels get relaxed and we go back to the normal with O2 and glucose income
My theory would be for the "cognitive" symptoms :
brain fog/memory loss/ ability to focus + ears blowing/locked nose and throat/feeling the heartbeat in the brain (pressure due to constricted vessels), and so on...
I am 90% cognitive POIS, I had NO semen allergy , nor positive immune reaction tests due to the O. That is why I build up my own theory (based on the potential XN) which could fit into my case (cognitive) !
I think we should forget about Dmitry (oh, as soon I wrote this name, I forgot it ;D), and try to understand why it worked !
And if possible, get more information about the suffers who got "cured" with that.
The cognitive effect is proved. I talked about it with my doctor who told me :
-It was a real double(Xanthinol+Nicotinate) effect vasodilator.
-The nicotinate is found in cigarettes and really help to focus on things (one of the only benefit to smoke...never did that) since it helps more glucose and O2 coming into the brain cells.
-Never take a vasodilator if you get heart disorder/operation
-Intramuscular Injections are more efficient than the digestive way and reaches a maximum 100 minutes after injection (it is true what we heard so)
I think that IF XN works, then the POIS is for a part :
only an over cerebral vessels constriction which lasts from the O (arousal for some) until some time (the POIS recovery).
It would mean that our brain takes a very long time to relax the constricted cerebral vessels. Thus, our brain gets less (perhaps a very small difference) O2 and glucose than before. With the time, the vessels get relaxed and we go back to the normal with O2 and glucose income
My theory would be for the "cognitive" symptoms :
brain fog/memory loss/ ability to focus + ears blowing/locked nose and throat/feeling the heartbeat in the brain (pressure due to constricted vessels), and so on...
I am 90% cognitive POIS, I had NO semen allergy , nor positive immune reaction tests due to the O. That is why I build up my own theory (based on the potential XN) which could fit into my case (cognitive) !
Very interesting Demo, it seems to be a central finding ! thank you It seems to explain a lot more, and sounds very familiar for me at least.. The pois episode, intense long lasting warmth through the whole body, sweating. I noticed I ask everybody if the room is warm for them, just to check if I am not an exception there.
french article translated" niacin is a main factor in the sexual hormones production, blood stream, energy production AND histamine release"
"Some people cant support very well histamine release/absorption and it implies : Headaches, skin troubles, heart palpitations, dizziness, intense warmth feeling, digestive troubles (nausea, colon disorders, stomach.
The symptoms disappear alone in some hours after the histamine absorption."
Histamine could explain the "fake allergic reaction feeling" and the huge amount of it could explain why a simply "antihistamine" never worked for us.
Perhaps the Niacin by injections could prevent the wrong reaction by regulating the Histamine release during arousal and the O.
It would be good to have medical view on this Niacin findings and the possible link with our POIS. I hope Dr Waldinger would have a look on it !
gnc people giving me 250 mg of niacin
should i take it ..... its a normal tab its not no flush !!
what do u say ???????
That's what I am trying to say...pois seems like shortage of sme chemical in the brain...niacin is a vitamin which helps people suffering through depression and serorin deficiency...an orgasm decreases the level of these useful chemicals inn brain...in normal people the level is not low that's why maybe they don't feel so upset the way we do because I think we poisers already have a shortage of these chemicals specially serotonin that's what I think...there's no allergy nothing...if medications given for serotinin deficiency work for us then maybe there's nothing like pois its just the chemical imbalance...
Today I asked the doctor about Vitamin B3. He said that the reason why some of us find relief is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body. And when you have an O. the body will not spread histamines. And because of the histamines we have this allergy reaction. He said that maybe there is a risk the POIS gets worse because of Niacin. And you have to take a higher dose to get the same effect. And a lot of Niacin brings side effects as liver damage. BUT HE DIDN'T DO ANY RESEARCH ABOUT THIS! This is just his opinion.
Niacin doesn't help me a lot. Maybe 10 to 20% less symptoms. I use 200 mg Niacin. I get a big flush. I do not dare to take more.
I found my relief in the injection therapy (50% less symptoms). But I told about that in another topic. :)
Observer, they should do the skin prick without niacin too. I would say the red spot could be the same, because the theory about histamine storage that is being used is too simple. We get the same results with flush, without flush or even with flushfree niacinamide. I get always POIS whilse taking niacin, the only diference is that i dont get any cognitive symptoms or brainfog.
We talked about this with Vincent. After a year of niacin usage his pois is at the same level. It didnt get better or worse due to niacin usage. He didnt noticed any tolerance to niacin, he gets always the same results with 150mg.I'm taking XN for 2 years and feel no difference in my POIS symptoms at rare cases when I don't take XN. And I don't need increase in dosage. I'm using 150mg dosage all the time, or 0.5 ml if I do injections. Sometimes I use Niacin instead of XN, I feel no difference between XN and Niacin, dosages and results are the same.
I have one important thing to point out, something has happened, because i am not getting 100 percent relief from niacin -200mg- the last times, i feel with mild cognitive symptoms or to be like "on the verge" of POIS symptoms. I wonder that this has happened twice in the last 4 days because i am taking one anti-histamine pill (you know i am allergic to a lot of things, and i suffer from allergy to acarus in my home-town -subtropical area- http://ekofyz.ic.cz/img/acarus.jpg I get runny nose, cough,etc). Is it possible that anti-histamine is affecting the over-all result of the niacin because the histamine release is lower than without the anti-histamine? What do you think about this?
Observer, do you have this blocking effect without a flush?
I think if you want combine antihistamine and niacin you should take niacin first, after a 1h or after the flush take antihistamine and after 1h ejaculate.
A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.
FULL ARTICLE: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full.pdf
ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush
A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.
Hmm... :)
We can also think niacin is a cofactor of histamines synthesis and avoid its depletion after histamines rush caused by semen allergy.
The work of desensitization is to avoid the trigger of inflammation by the time.
Or maybe there are different mechanisms to explain the succes of B3.
I don't thonk the niacin flush can be compared to flu-like symptoms in Pois. It's very short and restricted to only few symptoms.
ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush
I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..
I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..
20 mins post O , seems to be reduce brain fog (usually is high) ..other symptoms are at the same level like past. i'm feel tired but not confused.. not so bad ;)
I feel like have a shield or firewall agaist the brain fog.. but not working @ 100%..maybe 70%
astinenza? No ,non fa per me.. c'ho provato per anni ma non sono mai riuscito .
Thank u for reply, how long flush going on? i'm little bit scared from a kind of video on youtube ...a man scratching a lot for long time.. :) i'm little bit axiogen :)
Which way to don't build a niacin resistance?
ps: take niacin 3hrs ago half stomach and no flush.. :S
I took 90 mg at 3 in the morning on an empty stomach, small flush .. pois present at 90%: (
It 'just 10 mg from 100 mg that had taken effect, it is strange that it does not work
little tingling, no strong red. the only difference is that after 8-9 hours and I slept.
Today I took 90 g reduced the dots by 60%.
as a precision balance used? mine is not very precise.
So with 90 mg, you are what I call "borderline" flush. That usually gives me partial relief.
Is there any connection of pois and sedentary life?
I have the same experience as observer. 10-20 mins after flush gives the niacin the maximum effect for me too. Mid-flush gives some relief but not much.
Also, after I started exercising, my POIS has gotten better. My thinking was that my physical symptoms were mainly in the thighs, lower back and legs so I started focusing my weight training in the gym on those areas so make them stronger. Combine that with niacin and life with POIS is not that bad for me anymore. Also just eating healthy and staying fit in general has helped me a lot so far.
I'm taking 500mg of niacin now and sometimes I have to take 8-900mg to get the flush. For me it seems like my body is getting used to it as I need more and more to get the flush, but I can't say that for certain. I'm only taking it once or twice a week.
Last night I ate a lot, I woke up on an empty stomach and I took the niacin flush 90g ... no, I got another 50 g, no flush, I have taken another 30 g, no flush, no flush another 50 g .. . I had an O and there is pois . Why?
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373
not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?
your niacin brand is nicotic acid?
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder? i take powder
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373
not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?
your niacin brand is nicotic acid?
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder? i take powder
I crush the tablets and turn them into powder.
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373
not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?
your niacin brand is nicotic acid?
I agree with Observer. I have taken capsules that I have left out (I sometimes leave one capsule beside the bed for emergencies ;), but the effect is always weaker. I have since been sure to leave the capsules in a closed container.
The powdered form would be great, but I would put it into smaller 100ml sealed jars. That's probably the problem. Because as you said, lesser amounts have given you a flush.
You might see if some powder that is closer to the center of the mass of powder is "stronger". With any luck, only the surface material has lost strength.
How much is in a bag?
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder? i take powder
I crush the tablets and turn them into powder.
why crush the tablets??
I have suggested before and I do it again try having orgasm in the morning after u wake up and then no orgasm for a week or as long as u can control...the day u have orgasm and the other day will be all u will suffer and from the third day life will be normal...it works for me please try it friends instead of having any drugs
i think yes... u crush the tables couse powder have more effective..right?
Although xanthinol nicotinate is a common form of niacin found outside of the U.S. and can be found as complamin or complamina among many other names ( full list of generic names from most countries found here http://www.agenericdrugs.com/?s=Complamina%20Retard). However, the only problem is that the injectable form is not that desirable because people can just take the pill form, so is not offered by online pharmacies because no one is looking for it.r u going to try it soon.
Thanks :D Feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and it's actually not POIS! I actually have a personal announcement to make: Niacin works for me. It works WELL. I said before that it didn't seem to work for me even though I was getting the flush. But I was not waiting long enough after the flush to O, and for the past two weeks I've been reaping the benefits of HIGHLY reducted POIS symptoms! It was as simple as that, get the FULL flush (face exploding kind, I need at least 500 mg at fasting to attain this, and i need 4-5 hours fasting), and wait at LEAST 20 minutes for the flush to abate. It hasn't fully hit me, the implications of this, but it's starting to. I'm getting a little emotional just write this...!
Near the top of my things to do with the amount of life that I will get back with this is to advocate for treatment of this illness. I've tasted POIS freedom, and I don't want to have to deal with it ever again! That means an even better solution than niacin flushing HAS to be found! AND word has to spread, and it IS spreading virally like a disease! (bad analogy? =p)
I'm 99% convinced my Pois is linked to glycemia and probably insuline but I don't understand why.Try checking your blood sugar level before niacin and after 2 hours of taking it you'll be suprised as Nicotinic acid (niacin) among glucocorticoids , protease inhibitors, atypical antipsychotocs are all drugs that induce hyperglycemia , and are one of the main drugs that cause drug induced diabetes mellitus
Niacin is a cofactor of insuline synthesis but niacin supplements don't really improve my symptoms.
There is something very logical with niacin as cofactor of insuline and then cofactor of *something* in Pois (maybe histamine or steroid hormones or .... something else ).
When I reduce glycemic index food, I reduce insuline secretion and then I save something, maybe niacin.
Another point is fenugreek and garlic. Fenugreek is one the most hypoglyemic plant known and garlic has a moderate hypoglycemic effect too.
Same thing for Cinnamon.
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.
It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.
From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.
But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.
It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.
From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.
But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.
It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.
From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.
But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.
In addition to what you said i also have to think if it would affect my dessensitization program or not.
Am going to try everyday for two weeks see if it even helps my symptoms, if it does i will transition into every copule of days.
I was going to do everyday rapaflo instead, but that is making me tired and it might actually have more sideffects.
It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.
From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.
But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.
Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707668/full
It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.
From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.
But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.
Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?
The flush ISN'T the reason that the symptoms are releived, but it is like the marker that you've taken enough to help. Without the flush the beneficial effects are much less.
I've had a couple of times that I didn't have a flush, but I felt like I was "on the verge". I had reduced symptoms, but the POIS was only reduced by 50% instead of my usual 85 to 90%.
It would be interesting to see if taking it daily and having a constant dose of niacin in the system aleviates symptoms, even though the person isn't getting the flush.
Evidence so far implies that without the flush the system hasn't reached a level where it is saturated. Taking it daily raises the level of saturation. Without saturation, there is much less protection.
Although I'm not so sure that the PGD2 and 5-HT don't contribute to the beneficial effects of niacin.
They may cause the flush, and although the flush isn't the reason than niacin is beneficial, the elements that cause it might be.
So we may still be "in the dark".
The experiment would still be worth a try, but we'd have to know how to interpret the data!
As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.I get it, thanks.
First, you have to see if niacin works for you.
Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.
As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.I get it, thanks.
First, you have to see if niacin works for you.
Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.
I'll try it when I get the niacin.
I'm so excited that my niacin had just arrived.
'Niacine has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.'
Daveman, do you mean symptoms lasts for a day even though you take niacin before an O?
Should I see the flush all over my body for it to be considered heavy?
I only notice mild rash on my ears, back of my head, and neck.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/bald-mens-cure-hopes-buoyed-by-pge2-protein-discovery-16134562.html
Did some noticed hair loss from taking niacin?
Did the niacin worked for you if you have taken too much o niacin? If you are having a very strong flush that last for 1 hour does it work for POIS?
As you guys know, I`m a new member and I was wondering what the best thing is to start with. Like a long before an `O` should I take niacine and should I take also something else with it??
What do you guys recommend me?
Thank you.
Do you get symptoms of prostatits when you take niacin or you dont get this symptoms of POIS anymore?
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/24038104_The_Anti-Inflammatory_Effects_of_Prostaglandins
This theory gives us a better understanding of the problem: Ejaculation while we are flushing (PGD2 in its inflammatory phase) makes POIS worse, after the flush (PGD2 as antinflammatory factor or its metabolites) no POIS.
What does "DONATE FUNDS" mean? Why should I donate? What is it all about???
Please Click H E R E (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0http://www.poiscenter.com/forums/index.php)
My husband has taken Niacin about 5 times. This is because of the POIS forums - thanks!! He told me that the first day he was at 90% free of POIS. He was so happy - first time since puberty.
Last night he crushed it up onto a teaspoon. It tasted awful. Went to sleep about 45 minutes. He thought he had awoken because of the flush. We had sex. Today, he had all of his symptoms. So flush or No flush? It must depend on the person and the amount.
My husband has taken Niacin about 5 times. This is because of the POIS forums - thanks!! He told me that the first day he was at 90% free of POIS. He was so happy - first time since puberty.
Last night he crushed it up onto a teaspoon. It tasted awful. Went to sleep about 45 minutes. He thought he had awoken because of the flush. We had sex. Today, he had all of his symptoms. So flush or No flush? It must depend on the person and the amount.
Update on my husband.
Short summary - took Niacin 5 times, flushed, 70-90% symptoms gone!
Last weekend - not sure if flushed and POIS :(
Last night he said "This is the worst I have ever felt" So we will not consider sexual intercourse (I just wanted to use that phrase) for at least two weeks. My concern is that "it is the worst" after each time. He is not whining, it really is worse than the last time. And, I dont mean to be dramatic or scary, or even humorous, but I honestly think Im killing my husband with sex. For him, 300mg Niacin is the way to go - just working on tweaking the dose, time, and frequency.
If you have a partner - please tell them to email me. If you haven't tried Niacin - I would say, "Ask your GP first." But he may just tell you "Its psychological, here is some Zoloft."
I would like to try niacin but i am scared because i am also affected by irritable colon and i've read that xanthiol nicotinate could trigger stomach pain as it happened to some of the members of this forum.
is there a safe way to take it?
I had a quick question on niacin. To the people who find it useful, if you are in the middle of a POIS episode, does it take you out of one if you take niacin and orgasm? Or, do you still have to wait for the episode to end, and the niacin just protects you from future episodes?
Because I tried niacin, and i felt it didnt do much for me... but I was in the middle of an episode and I feel like maybe it was the previous episodes symptoms rather than the niacin not working...
This has to be one of the best days of my life. I have had two orgasms in the same day and i feel 100% free of brain fog, my mind is clear, excellent mood... A decisive victory against POIS but the battle is not over. It would have been impossible if not were for all the people that come here to fight against this condition. Thank you very much. :)
Today It is my "birthday", This 4th September was a special day... It was the first day when I could be finally myself after an O. It was the day when I hit back strongly at the POIS monster after so much time suffering from the illness- 7 years - and it has been an AMAZING year ... Thank you everyone here for your incredible help, we are a strong team and I am sure that in the end everyone will get rid of the suffering that this illness has brought to our lives.
Hi Folks,
let me share what's going on with my niacin experiments.
I'm still using a batch of few-months-old 500mg full-flush niacin (Nicotinic Acid), while I'm waiting to receive fresh 100mg caspules.
It's been a couple of times that I wake-up early morning and, being sure this way that I've had enough fasting hours and I'm far from any other supplements, I take 500mg of that niacin and wait in bed for the flush to happen. Well, something very weak happens 30 mins after, but eventually I fall deeply asleep again. Then I wake up (later than usual) in the morning 2-3 hours after, and a small flush happens again as I take my supplements or eat something. In other words, I never get a full-blown flush this way, especially on empty stomach when it's supposed to happen.
500mg are quite a bit, and I'm using this big amount because it's not so fresh, the flush doesn't occur right away nonetheless.
Also, the fact that a small flush occurs few hours after when I eat something means that some of that niacin is still around, waiting to be fully metabolized, is my assumption wrong? As if niacin metabolization is somehow slowed down. Or is it normal this way?
Finally, I slept in and didn't wake-up very refreshed. Not so unusual for me, but something to be considered anyway.
I'll wait for the fresh batch and test with smaller doses, but does this all say anything to any of you?
Thanks,
Andrea
Hi Folks,
let me share what's going on with my niacin experiments.
I'm still using a batch of few-months-old 500mg full-flush niacin (Nicotinic Acid), while I'm waiting to receive fresh 100mg caspules.
It's been a couple of times that I wake-up early morning and, being sure this way that I've had enough fasting hours and I'm far from any other supplements, I take 500mg of that niacin and wait in bed for the flush to happen. Well, something very weak happens 30 mins after, but eventually I fall deeply asleep again. Then I wake up (later than usual) in the morning 2-3 hours after, and a small flush happens again as I take my supplements or eat something. In other words, I never get a full-blown flush this way, especially on empty stomach when it's supposed to happen.
500mg are quite a bit, and I'm using this big amount because it's not so fresh, the flush doesn't occur right away nonetheless.
Also, the fact that a small flush occurs few hours after when I eat something means that some of that niacin is still around, waiting to be fully metabolized, is my assumption wrong? As if niacin metabolization is somehow slowed down. Or is it normal this way?
Finally, I slept in and didn't wake-up very refreshed. Not so unusual for me, but something to be considered anyway.
I'll wait for the fresh batch and test with smaller doses, but does this all say anything to any of you?
Thanks,
Andrea
That happened to me with a batch that I bought on Amazon I think it was, don't remembe the brand right now.
It said pure niacin, nothing more. I was in capsules, 500mg. I opened up the capsule and separated out 150 mg.
I noticed that it didn't really taste like the niacin I had used successfully. Maybe similar, but it seemed that the powder didn't dissolve rapidly like the "good stuff" did.
I took a whole 500mg (for me if it was the regular niacin, I'd be burning up, but didn't get anything until a couple of hours later. And like you said, it lasted on and off for several hours).
So I assumed it was a buffered niacin. The powder coated with gelling substance that doesn't let all the niacin get to your system at the same time.
Once you get good niacin, BE CAREFUL. DON'T take 500 at once
My good stuff is Nature's Way 100 mg capsules.The only one I can vouch for, but there are others.
A quick update on my niacin experiments.
I finally got the Nature's Way 100mg cps, which are recommended by many here.
I decided to have a try yesterday, after 2 weeks abstaining from sex.
I took 200mg at 22:20, after 3 hours fasting.
40 mins after waiting for the flush, I took 100mg every 15 mins until I reached 500mg: still no flush.
I had an O around midnight, even without flush.
I had a challenging night with seasonal allergies symptoms despite the anti-histamines and didn't sleep very well.
I have mild flu-like symptoms today, mixed to allergy.
Few considerations and questions:
- Whatever the niacin brand and batch, I can't have a flush now up to 500mg on empty stomach: any ideas why? I remember I sometimes had unwanted flushes in the past with 500mg of niacin after meal.
- Has anyone with seasonal allergies (pollens) noted an aggravation of allergic symptoms (nose, throat irritation) after using niacin?
- I'm not able to say if today I only have light POIS (flu-like pains, cold hands) because of niacin, or for some other factors. Including the fact that 2 weeks of abstention are quite a bit, longer than usual.
I take 260mg niacinammide daily as part of my B-Complex, I wonder is that contributes to niacin "tolerance" in some way...
I guess the next way to try is on morning as I wake-up, as I already did with the old brand, unfortunately with similar effects.
I caught a cold (guess how?) now and must wait.
Ironically, I don't drink alcohol and pork meat and very sparingly deep fried food, so it could be very easy for me to flush ;-)
What I usually do eat on evening are fresh (goat) cheeses, I wonder if the high content in fats and proteins has an influence. In other words, if niacin would work better after a carbs, protein or fats meal.
Today I don't feel the symptoms as strong as I would without Niacine. It's hard to measure but I would say the symptoms reduced 60 to 70%. It's still early so I don't know what the rest of the day will bring, also day 2 is normally my worst day after an orgasm so we have to see how that goes. But until now I would describe my experience with Niacin as positive :)
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2013/240108/
The symptom of hot flashes is among the most common and early described side effects of ADT as it was reported by Huggins and Hodges in 1941 in 9 of the first 21 prostate cancer patients ever to undergo ADT. Hot flashes are caused by inappropriate stimulation of thermoregulatory centers in the hypothalamus, resulting in peripheral vasodilatation [11]. Hot flushes are described by patients as the perception of intense warmth and subsequent cooling, flushing of the skin, perspiration, and chills in the upper part of the body, usually the neck and face. Associated symptoms may include anxiety and palpitations. Hot flashes usually last from a few seconds to several minutes but can persist for up to 20?min.