Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[Starsky]

Victor, can you say your POIS over that year got worse or better. If you dont take niacin will your reaction be worse or better than a year ago? Secondly, are you thinking about desensitization or are you happy with your situation?

[Daveman]

Victor indicates:
The flush is just indicator.

I read somewhere, that the niacin flush, according to docotrs is an indication that you have reached your sturation level of niacin.

For instance, someone who most needs niacin normally requires more niacin. Each of us has our level, depending on a number of factors. So without the flush it is more difficult to know if you have taken enough or even perhpas more than you require.

It is interesting though what Guthrie says, about how he feels that taking a heavier dose seems to work even better. So we are going to have to experiment.

However, given that we all have different requirement levels, the flush is still a good reference point.

[victor.kons]

Victor, can you say your POIS over that year got worse or better. If you dont take niacin will your reaction be worse or better than a year ago? Secondly, are you thinking about desensitization or are you happy with your situation?

I think my POIS is the same, but the state of the body is better in the sense I am more productive. If I don't take Niacin at first reaction will be better, because the body is not so exhausted, but the reaction is still very strong. I am happy that I shouldn't fight with POIS 2/3 of life time, but I do think about desensitization, and as usual no time for myself.

Victor

[silverandcol]

Interesting discovery here guys, even kind of scary haha.  I took 250 mg of niacin and then prepared to wait an hour before ejaculating.  However I decided to take a nice warm shower.  And what would you know.  In 20 mins I was feeling super flushed.  I have never been this flushed before and it is making me freak out.  I think the warm shower really helped increase the action of the Niacin.  So instaed of the one hour wait with resistance to niacin over using it for a month, I was able to get an extreme flush in 15 mins. 

Guys might want to try that if you don't want a one hour wait before orgasm =D.

[Daveman]

Did you try the orgasm before the hour? If so how did it go?? Not the orgasm, the POIS 

[silverandcol]

Yeh I did, I am not feeling more then 20% POIs, but I need to wait for tommorw and see what is up.

[lauracostis]

Victor indicates:
The flush is just indicator.

I read somewhere, that the niacin flush, according to docotrs is an indication that you have reached your sturation level of niacin.

For instance, someone who most needs niacin normally requires more niacin. Each of us has our level, depending on a number of factors. So without the flush it is more difficult to know if you have taken enough or even perhpas more than you require.

It is interesting though what Guthrie says, about how he feels that taking a heavier dose seems to work even better. So we are going to have to experiment.

However, given that we all have different requirement levels, the flush is still a good reference point.

here is something interesting I found:

"One simple test you can do yourself is to get some nicotinic acid in a 50mg dose. Nicotinic acid is the flush producing niacin. If you have a flush from one dose of 50mg of nicotinic acid (taken on any empty stomach) then you have histamine levels.
A low histamine person would probably require a dose of about 250mg of nicotinic acid to have that flush. If no flush from 50mg of nicotinic acid then you might try 100mg dose to double check this. If that doesn't work you might try once more a total of 200mg or 250mg of nicotinic acid just to make sure that you do in fact have low histamine levels and that supplement is the kind to cause a flush."

[b_jim]

My last experience wasn't good. I will increase to 60 then 80mg. But I don't think Pois can be only a niacin deficiency. Autumn is coming and the temps are lower. After orgasm, I become much more sensible to cold. Autoimmune is still the best theory for me.

[Daveman]

B_Jim,

Trying to be as flexible as possible, although I agree with you, IF there is a niacin deficiency, one would have to identify the cause of the deficiency.

There may be a B3 deficiency or a B3 dependancy. The former impies that we are low in B3, the latter implies that we don't use the B3 that we have in an efficient way or need more than most.

There are many reasons that this could happen.

Of course my favorite is that, as a result of very high histamine demand, our B3 is heavily consumed. This leads to a deficiency which doesn't leave any important material for construction of neurotransmitters that the brain needs. (dopamine, serotonine etc.).

I feel as though that's why it works when taken prior to orgasm. If we take it prior, we build a good store of B3 for the heavy histamine production to follow. As such, there still remains a good supply for other production required in the chain that follows.

If we take it after, it;s too late. The principal orgasmic chain tries to do it's thing whith what is available, and falls short. Taking it later does little as the production phases of the chain have passed. This might also explain why a subsequent orgasm after taking more B3 has significant effect in recuperation.

It's like feeding the beast when it's hungry. Once it's sick, it doesn't want to eat!!

[b_jim]

Sorry my mood is bad these last days.
I wil post something about histamines on the histamines's topic.

Edit : I don't know. A lot of arguments are difficult to explain
-Animus case
-Demographx's case
-Anti-histamines don't work.
-The delayed's cases (flu-like symptoms coming after several hours)
 

[Daveman]

B_Jim,

It would be wonderful if we had explanations for all of this.

I have my opinions, and can expalin every point you mention above, but in the end, until we actually have a proper research program in place, we just won't know for sure.

We just have to get beyond this doubt. One thing this 4.5 years has shown, is that pointed in a real and positive direction, we ARE going to find the answers. But divided and all pushing in separate directions we just aren't going to advance. Anyways.... hope your mood improves. for your sake. 

Thanks for the post to come in histamines.

[Egordon]

Hey Guys,

I just took 400 mg of niacin (on an empty stomach, of course) -- a big dose, i know -- pre-O and had a kind of interesting experience. Because the supplements i've been taking have about 100mg of niacin, i've built up a higher tolerance for it, and, as a result, it take a lot for me to get a flush these days. So I took a big dose, still didn't get a flush and O'd anyways, in hopes that it would still have the desired effect. Although my physical symptoms are gone -- there's little burning in my eyes or tension in my shoulders -- my cognitive symptoms only seem to have been reduced by about 50%. This is unfortunate because when I first started niacin, I'd get a decent flush at 200mg, and that flush would take care of about 80 - 90% of my cognitive dysfunction.

In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?

[lauracostis]

B_Jim,

Trying to be as flexible as possible, although I agree with you, IF there is a niacin deficiency, one would have to identify the cause of the deficiency.

There may be a B3 deficiency or a B3 dependancy. The former impies that we are low in B3, the latter implies that we don't use the B3 that we have in an efficient way or need more than most.

There are many reasons that this could happen.

Of course my favorite is that, as a result of very high histamine demand, our B3 is heavily consumed. This leads to a deficiency which doesn't leave any important material for construction of neurotransmitters that the brain needs. (dopamine, serotonine etc.).

I feel as though that's why it works when taken prior to orgasm. If we take it prior, we build a good store of B3 for the heavy histamine production to follow. As such, there still remains a good supply for other production required in the chain that follows.

If we take it after, it;s too late. The principal orgasmic chain tries to do it's thing whith what is available, and falls short. Taking it later does little as the production phases of the chain have passed. This might also explain why a subsequent orgasm after taking more B3 has significant effect in recuperation.

It's like feeding the beast when it's hungry. Once it's sick, it doesn't want to eat!!

If anyone goes into the doctor to get a blood lab of any type, ask the doc to add histamine and b3 levels onto the test.

dave the only way the histamine theory works is if the first part of pois is high histamine levels followed by deficient histamine levels that have all been used up for the second part of pois.  I look at the signs of high level and low levels.  Half of each of the symptoms listed fit well, the other half are the exact opposite, so  maybe it could be beneficial to try and separate these symptoms into first and second parts of pois.  if the first part(not half, because they may not be equal in length)fits high histamine levels and the second distinct part fits low histamine levels, then we might have something.  

this web page does a good job of ranking symptoms:   http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html

[b_jim]

" first part of pois is high histamine levels followed by deficient histamine levels that have all been used up for the second part of pois "

It's the conclusion I gave in my post on histamine topic. But for the first part I'm sceptic. There are some interractions between histamine and B3 but not so easy to understand.

Anyway, I'm  taking b3 for the moment.

[victor.kons]

In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?

Yes, there were experiences that contradict this and these experiences were described in this thread too many times already.

Victor

[Egordon]

In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?

Yes, there were experiences that contradict this and these experiences were described in this thread too many times already.

Victor

Where? Can someone help me find them?

EDIT: Found them. It seems Guthrie, Observer, POIS Sufferer and Viktor have had better results. Maybe I need to stop taking niacin for awhile to see if i'm just being nostalgic about how much the flush did for me. I mean, I certainly felt better than I ordinarily would have after taking it without the flush, i just remember getting even better results in the past though.

[silverandcol]

Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...

[lauracostis]

Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...

maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.

[Guthrie]

Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...

maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.

Yes, in terms of histamine, it seems like two opposite possibilities have been floated on our forum: 1) the POIS symptoms are related to a release of histamine; and niacin causes a release of histamine beforehand, using it up, so that it is not released with orgasm, and so does not trigger the immune response.  *OR* 2) The POIS symptoms are related a deficiency of histamine.  Taking niacin produces more histamine, so that the normal amount of histamine can present with orgasm.

So do we have too much histamine, or not enough?

[lauracostis]

Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...

maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.

Yes, in terms of histamine, it seems like two opposite possibilities have been floated on our forum: 1) the POIS symptoms are related to a release of histamine; and niacin causes a release of histamine beforehand, using it up, so that it is not released with orgasm, and so does not trigger the immune response.  *OR* 2) The POIS symptoms are related a deficiency of histamine.  Taking niacin produces more histamine, so that the normal amount of histamine can present with orgasm.

So do we have too much histamine, or not enough?

are you still getting good results from niacinimide