Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[lauracostis]

It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.  I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.

again there are thousands of drugs that have different uses for the oral and injectable form of the same drug

[victor.kons]

It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

Yep, but lemme check , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?

Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.

Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...

Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.

Victor

[Daveman]

It should be noted .......  nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.
......

Although it's just one report, take a look at jivetalk's post here.

He had a successful test using a single does shortly before orgasm.

My goal is threefold:
1) Attempt to find a combination with an easily available version of Niacin which doesn't have to be injected.
2) Reduce the amount ingested with time, instead of 200 to 300 daily and a higher does of say 500 just before orgasm, take ONLY 200 to 300 once just before orgasm.
3) verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm.

Point 1 makes us less prone to breaking the law and or resorting to inscrupulous methods for obtaining the releif
Point 2 should reduce the negative effects on the liver, given that ingestion is sporadic and of lower dosage.
Point 3 could be a key factor in understanding the POIS mechanism.

However:
I agree that we have to be careful with our livers and bodies, for that reason I limit my use of Ibuprofen, even though in the short term it releives my symptoms.
Whether its a high dose or even a medium to low dose, given that we are potentially going to be consuming over long periods, we should have our livers check regularly, as Demo indicated earlier. The same goes for NSAIDs and other drugs that we are taking, especially those that can be bought and take without perscription.

[victor.kons]

It should be noted .......  nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.
......

Although it's just one report, take a look at jivetalk's post here.

He had a successful test using a single does shortly before orgasm.

My goal is threefold:
1) Attempt to find a combination with an easily available version of Niacin which doesn't have to be injected.
2) Reduce the amount ingested with time, instead of 200 to 300 daily and a higher does of say 500 just before orgasm, take ONLY 200 to 300 once just before orgasm.
3) verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm.

Point 1 makes us less prone to breaking the law and or resorting to inscrupulous methods for obtaining the releif
Point 2 should reduce the negative effects on the liver, given that ingestion is sporadic and of lower dosage.
Point 3 could be a key factor in understanding the POIS mechanism.

Point 3 is contradicting my experience. After injection of XN I can have O, even many O's in 3-4 hours after injection and I will not have POIS.

Victor

[Daveman]

Victor. As far as point #3....

First we have to be consistent and focused in our testing. If we have results that don't fit with our hypothesis, it does't necesarily mean that we have failed, unless we have been so disorganized that we can't make heads nor tails of the results.

I don't think our tests should be such that we qualify "feel better" as success and "no gain" as failure.

Often, a failure points directly to a direction for a solution. But that can only happen if we have an hypothesis based on as many facts as we can muster, and we can see clearly enough how specifically the failure points to an error in the hypothesis.

Like a row of dominos stood up one in line with the other. If we are so intent on watching the last domino fall that we don't see that the one in the middle is crooked, then we'll never find the solution. The last domino didn't fall, so that line of investigation is a failure? NO.

We need an hypothesis (as erred as it may be) and we set up the experiment, one domino after the other and watch all dominos. If the hypothesis is quite erred, it will cost us quite a bit more. But we at least can go, one domino at a time, adjusting until the last one falls, or until we can see that there's no way that the dominos can be laid out so as to make thelast one fall.

In the above case, point 3 is:
"verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm"

Perhaps the histamine reaction caused by XN / Niacin raises the threshold temporarily (up to 5 hrs) so that the negative histamine release chain that happens with POIS is blocked!

One hypothesis.

[jivetalk]

Niacin Pills Report #3:

Dosage: 300 mg about 60 minutes prior to O (3 x 100mg Tablets)

Had another very intense O's last night, but took the dosage above. You know, one of the ones where its very very good, but you're thinking towards the end and afterwards 'Oh no, im going to paying for that for the next few days and possibly weeks!'.

Anyway..No POIS after O last night...... went to sleep and was able to sleep (maybe I'm getting used to the Niacin). However, woke up this morning VERY VERY Hot. I could also certainly feel more blood circulation running through me...I Had to kick the covers off....But....still..No POIS.
After getting up and very suprised I had no POIS and was feeling quite good. About 1/2 to 1 hour after being up and about, I could start to feel POIS slightly coming on. Based on my second Report, where I felt that somehow the Niacin 'Wore off' I decided to take another 100mg tablet. 15 Minutes later, had the flush and the POIS receded....I think I have a plan..

2 Hours later - I Could feel me being on the verge of POIS again...so popped another pill. Same effect, the POIS receded. I did this five times today taking a total of 500mg, and I am sitting here prior to going to bed with very little signs of POIS. I would say throughout the day I had around 10% POIS, which is a HUGE difference for me - But that could just be because I was Soooooo concious of it.

I can't get my hands on any Slow release niacin, but that is effectively what I have done today - 500mg in Slow Release Form.

Notes:
1. I don't think it is actually the FLUSH that is curing the POIS symptoms. The Flush itself only lasts about 5 minutes at the most for me, actually feels quite pleasant - not too strong. However it is well and truly gone by the time the O occurs. As Victor has noted, he can O quite a number of times after XN, but I am sure that the FLUSH would have only lasted a very short time.
2. I do feel slighlty jittery on the Niacin, but nothing too serious.
3. As noted, I have had a little insomnia the past few times I have taken Niacin.
4. I can certainly feel increased blood floor/heart beats whilst on the Niacin
5. I would normally be in VERY heavy POIS right now, tired, lazy, very foggy brain. But I'm actually quite alert, right now, I would say maybe 5% POIS if Anything at all..
6. I also note, usually when I am in POIS  - and I Yawn - I feel VERY EMPTY. As if my Body is Lacking Something severely (vitamins or something) and need to sleep, not sure if anyone else gets that. I did yawn a few times today, but Nothing like a POIS yawn. Just more a normal standard Yawn - and kept going...
7. Going to keep experimenting to see if I can reproduce the results....
8. If this is a Placebo..I hope it continues  :-)

[jivetalk]

It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

Yep, but lemme check , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?

Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.

Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...

Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.

Victor

Victor - Thank you!

Can you clarify what you mean by 'Liver seems reacting' and you 'feel unhealthy'- Would like to understand this to see if I have any of the same reactions to Niacin.

[Daveman]

Thanks jivetalk, great tests.... although the quantity consumed is getting to be quite high.
It would be better that we reduce our orgasm cycles enough to be able to keep the "histamine release threshold a little lower" and therefore Niacin dosage lower, than to damage our livers. One or even two oragsms  per week with Niacin / XN is a lot better than POIS without it and cycles of two orgasms per month.

Just a note, Rather than the flush being the cause of symptom reduction, the hypothesis is that the histamine release caused by the flush may be short curcuiting the histamine cycle of orgasm which causes POIS. So even though the actual FLUSH lasts a short time, the histamine release has been triggered.

If the threshold is too high, even the flush won't trigger it. And the hypothesis is, that in taking the Niacin / XN we cause the histamine release and raise the threshold for the period of the orgasm.

[victor.kons]

It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

Yep, but lemme check , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?

Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.

Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...

Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.

Victor

Victor - Thank you!

Can you clarify what you mean by 'Liver seems reacting' and you 'feel unhealthy'- Would like to understand this to see if I have any of the same reactions to Niacin.

I meant that I had some tension feelings in the right bottom area of a chest and I felt some weakness, I think this is because overdose of XN.

Victor

[victor.kons]

Victor. As far as point #3....

First we have to be consistent and focused in our testing. If we have results that don't fit with our hypothesis, it does't necesarily mean that we have failed, unless we have been so disorganized that we can't make heads nor tails of the results.

I don't think our tests should be such that we qualify "feel better" as success and "no gain" as failure.

Often, a failure points directly to a direction for a solution. But that can only happen if we have an hypothesis based on as many facts as we can muster, and we can see clearly enough how specifically the failure points to an error in the hypothesis.

Like a row of dominos stood up one in line with the other. If we are so intent on watching the last domino fall that we don't see that the one in the middle is crooked, then we'll never find the solution. The last domino didn't fall, so that line of investigation is a failure? NO.

We need an hypothesis (as erred as it may be) and we set up the experiment, one domino after the other and watch all dominos. If the hypothesis is quite erred, it will cost us quite a bit more. But we at least can go, one domino at a time, adjusting until the last one falls, or until we can see that there's no way that the dominos can be laid out so as to make thelast one fall.

In the above case, point 3 is:
"verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm"

Perhaps the histamine reaction caused by XN / Niacin raises the threshold temporarily (up to 5 hrs) so that the negative histamine release chain that happens with POIS is blocked!

One hypothesis.

Daveman, I understand everything and fully agree with you. Also this is the normal scientific approach for finding out facts about real life objects and processes.

Right now I'm trying to determine minimal doses and effect on my POIS of different XN and different Niacin acid forms (oral / injectable), to provide other people with the direction for doing their own experiments. And when we have a few people with some results we can build statistics. Based on this statistics we can refine our hypothesis and continue doing more informative experiments.

Victor

[lauracostis]

It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

Are XN tables easily available in USA?


Victor

no

[silverandcol]

Ok for my xan-pro report, I messed up a little bit but it is okay.  So I orgasm-ed  first and then took the xan-pro pills right after it.  Then I had to work next day so I went to sleep in like 15 minutes even with the slight flushing coming on.  I didn't notice anything else because I was sleeping.  Next day was kinda sucky, I would say 85% POIS.  I fucked up a bit a work because of my inattentiveness and whatnot from POIS, making me regret I ever ejaculated at all.  Good thing my boss is cool.  So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly.  Took one 150mg  xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro.  I waited about 30ish minutes then did my business.  It was pretty interesting. It seemed the orgasm was less intense(maybe because it's the 2nd day of orgasm.)  Also I did not get the super strong rush of blood to my face when I usually orgasm.  It definitely felt like a different orgasm.

Next morning I was able to get up at 3:30am even before my alarm went off.  I was not lethargy stricken and being nearly impossible to get out of bed.  It was quite a good feeling of not being 100% POIS smashed.  Throughout the day at work I felt a little POIS, not sure if placebo though.  I would say about 50% POIS, not fully 100% sharp.  It's sometimes hard to tell at work because if it does not stress me out or challenge me enough I can't tell how much POIS I have.  I will play some games real soon though to see how the POIS is really effecting me.

TLDR: Xan-Pro is looking decently effective at reducing POIS symptoms when taken before orgasm.  (maybe the after helped too, I need to properly test this.) =D

[Daveman]

Explain again the Xan-Pro. You were talking about a 1000 mg slow release the other day. Is it the same?

I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.

Also, the second test, although positive, might have been even better if you didn't have the POIS of the day before.

So we'll have to see how it goes when you take it "clean".

Sounds good though.

Please confirm the makeup of the Xan-Pro. Thanks

[victor.kons]

Niacin Acid Tablets Report.

Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.

Edit: I took two tablets, 50mg each, had no flush at all. But I think I made a mistake, 100mg is too small dose for me, although the instruction states that 100mg is max one time dose for this tablets. Yesterday night I had a hard time to sleep and had a tension feelings in my head. Today I've waken up with 20% of POIS I think, had the disgusting feeling of POIS beginning. I had a thought - omg, am I going to break out to POIS completely.... After two hours of morning walk with my wife from 4 am to 6 am, I had a feeling of body fighting the POIS. After that I felt 10-20% of POIS throughout the day. The second day was POIS free.


Victor

[Daveman]

Niacin Acid Tablets Report.

Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.

Victor

Great news so far. So I guess you recuperated from the overdose! (XN 600mg)? You had me worried there for a while.

How many of the Niacin acid tablets did you take this time? And did you flush? tingle?

It almost seems like the flushing effect should be in full bloom for the orgasm.

[Starsky]

If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/



That are the only ones that i found in Germany. On the leaflet thay write, that you can take up to 4 pills a day, 4g. They sell it OTC.

[victor.kons]

Niacin Acid Tablets Report.

Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.

Victor

Great news so far. So I guess you recuperated from the overdose! (XN 600mg)? You had me worried there for a while.

Yes, I recuperated Dave, thank you. The problem is that I have too weak and sensitive liver and stomach, so any form of tablets and pure niacin acid are pretty hard for me, but I want to come up with some useful results.

How many of the Niacin acid tablets did you take this time? And did you flush? tingle?

I took two tablets, 50mg each, had no flush at all. But I think I made a mistake, 100mg is too small dose for me, although the instruction states that 100mg is max one time dose for this tablets. Yesterday night I had a hard time to sleep and had a tension feelings in my head. Today I've waken up with 20% of POIS I think, had the disgusting feeling of POIS beginning. I had a thought - omg, am I going to break out to POIS completely.... After two hours of morning walk with my wife from 4 am to 6 am, I had a feeling of body fighting the POIS and now I think I'm recovered, but lets see how it goes during the day.

It almost seems like the flushing effect should be in full bloom for the orgasm.

I think you are almost right. But I think the flush effect is the indicator only at the start, after a while your body starts to get used to drug and after that there will be almost no flush. At least this is the case for XN, but still the original dose works, I don't need to increase it.

Victor

[victor.kons]

If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/

I had the statement in my instruction that 500mg is max one-time dose for these XN tablets. I think you have either different XN tablets or you have slow release pills.

Victor

[jivetalk]

Victor & SilverandCol,

Thank you So much for your trial and reports - I am reading them keenly.

As you know I am also trying the Niacin, but as per my last report, 2nd Day I could feel a little POIS coming on, but was able to combat it with more Niacin. I think this feeling is what you Victor have described as 'Body Fighting POIS'.
I also noticed on the 3rd Day a slight Head pressure, nothing like POIS - As if I didn't drink enough water, or sort of a slight 'hangover' feeling. 4th Day today, and I feel GREAT, No POIS whatsoever.

I am wondering if XN pills may be more effective now after reading your reports. Will have to wait and see....

Is there anyone else here trying niacin or XN? Would be great to hear your experiences. Please Note if you are. Please heed all the warnings/dangers that have been made by members here.

[jivetalk]

Thanks jivetalk, great tests.... although the quantity consumed is getting to be quite high.
It would be better that we reduce our orgasm cycles enough to be able to keep the "histamine release threshold a little lower" and therefore Niacin dosage lower, than to damage our livers. One or even two oragsms  per week with Niacin / XN is a lot better than POIS without it and cycles of two orgasms per month.

Just a note, Rather than the flush being the cause of symptom reduction, the hypothesis is that the histamine release caused by the flush may be short curcuiting the histamine cycle of orgasm which causes POIS. So even though the actual FLUSH lasts a short time, the histamine release has been triggered.

If the threshold is too high, even the flush won't trigger it. And the hypothesis is, that in taking the Niacin / XN we cause the histamine release and raise the threshold for the period of the orgasm.

Thanks Daveman.