POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Michael218 on July 08, 2017, 01:12:59 AM
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Hi - if there's a thread on NE wet dreams, can some one kindly paste the link? I've read scattered posts but I am AMAZED that there is not one thread that I can find on people's success in taking vitmains/supplements/drugs after a NE. The only effective plans in threads are for taking them before 'o'.
This forum has been around for years. Surely we can get the methods people use after a NE and the success rates they have with those methods... I read one post about taking 2 benadryl's immediately after 'o' plus Zyrtec every day which totally wiped out symptoms for one guy. What are people doing for NE's and what percentage of your symptoms are reduced as a result of what you're doing?
Cheers,
Mike
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I know Quantum takes his usual pre-pack, and has helpfully mentioned that while it isn't an impressive result, it still does help a bit. How much is 'a bit' though, Quantum? 20% reduction in symptoms if taken after 'o'?
If we can figure out how people can best treat their NE's (rather than knowing only how to prevent POIS symptoms), isn't that information crucial to determine what CAUSES pois?
Can we compile a list of people's treatment plans for NE's and how much their treatment plans are reducing symptoms...? Or did I miss the party on that one.
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Just to be clear, what do you mean by "treating NEs"?
About successful treatments, I guess its complicated, there are many different types of POIS documented by Quantum in his types chart thread (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.0) with different relief methods. I've read a lot on the forum during the last 1-2 years and still I think I didnt even see half of it, but I stumbled upon many different such methods/drugs/supplements people use before, directly after ejaculation or later in the POIS cycle, some to prevent symptoms, some to relieve/mask them. In my opinion its incredibly hard to determine which things help and and which don't, "scientific" and patient experiements need to be conducted which are basically flawed/biased by our lack of objectivity and control studies and are affected by the time the ejaculations occur, how they occur, other external influences. You could use for example elimination approaches to finding things that help nonetheless there is a lot of effort and persitence involved and in the end there is always doubt. Often things seem to help once or twice or a month and then cease to have effect. What is left for me in the end is only exercise and meditation which at least help in dealing with/masking the symptoms (in terms of percentage at best by 50%). One month ago I started doing a daily POIS journal entry for myself listing symptoms, major events, influences, methods tried etc (took me a while from the idea of doing this to acutally have the required discipline). I hope this will one day give me enough data to clearly identify some patterns (right now I have only many assumptions/hunches on whats going on) but it's a long way ahead.
I understand your point and like your idea with the list of treatment plans. Information is all over the place and it might help to sort/list/confirm/debunk all the things. Maybe we can find better ways to collect data so it isnt read and forgotten about. I consider Quantum a very valuable contributor and a pioneer in this matter (not only because of his pois type charts), its a very cool thing of him to put in the time, certainly not to be taken for granted.
I hope what I wrote is somehow helpful to anyone, these are just some thought I've been having recently. I hope I can contribute more in the future, I like sorting/organizing information, but beside my job and coping with POIS there is so little time and energy left.
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder71/67100071.jpg)
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Most of us dont have a good remedy for post orgasm, that is why you are not getting any response.
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Gotcha. Thanks. Thought I may have missed a crucial thread on it...
Yeah, the issue is time... perhaps if we all chip in, instead of o
1 or 2 people doing everything, we can figure this thing out.
It's important that we speak up and document our successes and failures for different remedies, the information is still very scattered... the more members documenting their experiences, the more we we will be able to identify the root cause...
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i have a list that i have compiled over years of different treatments tried. I will post it others can add to it.
There is also a treatment summary list in the treatment sections.
We need clinical research to answer the questions you are asking.
May be a group of us can work together and do some intensive research with google scholar while we wait for clinical research.
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I know Quantum takes his usual pre-pack, and has helpfully mentioned that while it isn't an impressive result, it still does help a bit. How much is 'a bit' though, Quantum? 20% reduction in symptoms if taken after 'o'?
If we can figure out how people can best treat their NE's (rather than knowing only how to prevent POIS symptoms), isn't that information crucial to determine what CAUSES pois?
Can we compile a list of people's treatment plans for NE's and how much their treatment plans are reducing symptoms...? Or did I miss the party on that one.
Hi Michael,
I just came back from a 2 weeks vacations, and now can answer your questions.
First, my pre-pack, when taken not long after I had a NE ( so as a "post-pack"), will have a 50% to 70% effectiveness. this could be considered major relief, but I am more used now to 80%-100% relief, when taken approx. 30 minutes before release. But I will have to keep on taking some supplements, every 4 hours for one day or two, just like when my pre-pack have not prevented all symptoms ( I have explained this at the end of the post where I have detailed my prevention method at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 )
And, about a NE thread on this forum, the best one is at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2151.msg17197#msg17197 . Take the time to read it through, you may find something useful for you in it ( I have myself submitted some comments in it, and have added some others months later as I had some more suggestions to make). There are no ways to completely avoid NE, I think, so, as I have already mentioned, I use "pre-programmed releases" at convenient time, with the use of my pre-pack, whenever I think I may have a NE soon, so then I can use my pre-pack.
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Just to be clear, what do you mean by "treating NEs"?
About successful treatments, I guess its complicated, there are many different types of POIS documented by Quantum in his types chart thread (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.0) with different relief methods. I've read a lot on the forum during the last 1-2 years and still I think I didnt even see half of it, but I stumbled upon many different such methods/drugs/supplements people use before, directly after ejaculation or later in the POIS cycle, some to prevent symptoms, some to relieve/mask them. In my opinion its incredibly hard to determine which things help and and which don't, "scientific" and patient experiements need to be conducted which are basically flawed/biased by our lack of objectivity and control studies and are affected by the time the ejaculations occur, how they occur, other external influences. You could use for example elimination approaches to finding things that help nonetheless there is a lot of effort and persitence involved and in the end there is always doubt. Often things seem to help once or twice or a month and then cease to have effect. What is left for me in the end is only exercise and meditation which at least help in dealing with/masking the symptoms (in terms of percentage at best by 50%). One month ago I started doing a daily POIS journal entry for myself listing symptoms, major events, influences, methods tried etc (took me a while from the idea of doing this to acutally have the required discipline). I hope this will one day give me enough data to clearly identify some patterns (right now I have only many assumptions/hunches on whats going on) but it's a long way ahead.
I understand your point and like your idea with the list of treatment plans. Information is all over the place and it might help to sort/list/confirm/debunk all the things. Maybe we can find better ways to collect data so it isnt read and forgotten about. I consider Quantum a very valuable contributor and a pioneer in this matter (not only because of his pois type charts), its a very cool thing of him to put in the time, certainly not to be taken for granted.
I hope what I wrote is somehow helpful to anyone, these are just some thought I've been having recently. I hope I can contribute more in the future, I like sorting/organizing information, but beside my job and coping with POIS there is so little time and energy left.
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder71/67100071.jpg)
Thank you, paradoxx, for your good words about my posts, they are truly appreciated :)
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Thanks for your replies guys - always a huge help.
Quantum, 50-70% is HUGE. If more people were aware of how good your prepack was, surely they would try it our. Surprised more people haven't spoken up about your pre-pack. Almost makes me want to have a NE and get POIS so I can try it out!
Thanks again for your detailed helpful reply.
I tend to agree with previous speculation regarding the brain becoming very unbalanced at the time of orgasm - due to lacking something which the Vitamin B's or whatever is in your pre-pack make up for if taken at the right time prior to orgasm. To me this seems logical, being that they are only or most effective when taken prior to release, not after. Although 50-70% is extremely good as a post-pack!
Are we making any progress with doctors or research? Has this forum raised enough money to investigate it more deeply?
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Paradox,
Thank you for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. Totally agree, there's so much data all over the place and it would be great to have it all summarised and put into spreadsheets or as a more simplified report on what works, how many people it works for, the degree to which it works, etc. This has already been done in a few amazing posts by Quantum and others. It's also a question of time, and people having the motivation to spend the time to submit their data. Agree, Quantum is INCREDIBLE. Perhaps a few of us can chip in, divide tasks, so only a few people are burdened by updating info. Let's make this is a collaborative effort. We all suffer this bitch of a condition. We should all help one another in any way we can!
Cheers, and again, appreciate your reply.
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Thanks for your replies guys - always a huge help.
Quantum, 50-70% is HUGE. If more people were aware of how good your prepack was, surely they would try it our. Surprised more people haven't spoken up about your pre-pack. Almost makes me want to have a NE and get POIS so I can try it out!
Thanks again for your detailed helpful reply.
I tend to agree with previous speculation regarding the brain becoming very unbalanced at the time of orgasm - due to lacking something which the Vitamin B's or whatever is in your pre-pack make up for if taken at the right time prior to orgasm. To me this seems logical, being that they are only or most effective when taken prior to release, not after. Although 50-70% is extremely good as a post-pack!
Are we making any progress with doctors or research? Has this forum raised enough money to investigate it more deeply?
Yes, it's a good level of relief. But it has to be reminded that I had always less severe POIS from a NE than form a "waking state" release.
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Paradox,
Thank you for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. Totally agree, there's so much data all over the place and it would be great to have it all summarised and put into spreadsheets or as a more simplified report on what works, how many people it works for, the degree to which it works, etc. This has already been done in a few amazing posts by Quantum and others. It's also a question of time, and people having the motivation to spend the time to submit their data. Agree, Quantum is INCREDIBLE. Perhaps a few of us can chip in, divide tasks, so only a few people are burdened by updating info. Let's make this is a collaborative effort. We all suffer this bitch of a condition. We should all help one another in any way we can!
Cheers, and again, appreciate your reply.
Thanks again for you words of appreciation, Michael and paradoxx !
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I now add Claritin-D 24 hrs in the morning after an NE. This is done in addition to the pre-pack immediately after an NE. The cognitive symptoms are 90% gone.
See my comments in Quantum's post: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.0
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Amazing timing romies. Thank you so much for that added info. I had a NE this morning. Hilarious how the issue of POIS has shifted for me from planned release being the problem to now only worrying about NE's. One can try their best to plan your release just before you think you're due for one... but in the end, it's very unpredictable. I had a programmed release on Friday night with my prepack and was perfect. Come Sunday early morning and bang, a NE.
The quest to treat NE's begins... Romies, I'll read into your prepack, although from what I skimmed through, it sounds like you take yours daily? Perhaps was wrong, will have another read over your post.
Thank you again! Huge help.
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Question or 2 for Quantum & Romies coming. :)
Right, so I re-read your post romies. Had confused it with some one elses. Nice to see you derived your pack from Quantum!
I went out tonight to the pharmacy - damn expensive here in Sydney. Bought some Quercetain, Flaxseed Oil and Peppered Curcumin to add to the rapidly growing supplement buffet. Seriously it is a joke - there are about 20 different supplements on this shelf now. G-d only knows which ones actually help.
I'm currently in a NE POIS cycle so apologies if this post sounds a bit all over the place. It wasn't too bad today - pumping a fair amount of Magnesium, Fish Oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fenugreek & Vitamin E and today's been relatively better for a 1st day POIS. My 2nd day is the real killer - wondering how the Quercetain, Flaxseed Oil and Curcumin will affect things. I wonder how effective they are 1 day into POIS? None of the big pharmacies sell 5-HTP here, but it's easy enough to get online so that will have to wait.
My symptoms are predominantly mental - quite a lot of brain fog, memory, concentration, anxiety, social anxiety, etc.
Romies - I looked for Claritin-D 24 hour release but it doesn't exist here. It's called Clarityne-D in Australia and it's only 12 hour release. You mentioned it wasn't effective in the 12 hour, so I didn't buy it. I asked if there were any other brands with the same ingredients with a 24 hour release and they didn't know of one. They had just normal 'Clarityne' 24 hour release which is the OTC but isn't a decongestant. Specifically for NE's, is there anything else I can take to treat this ridiculousness that lasts for 2 days? Only concerned about the mental symptoms, don't care about the physical ones.
Also, Quantum - what would you say are the most crucial supplements in your prepack regarding conquering the mental symptoms alone? As mentioned, the B's often work well taken before release but in the case of a NE, B's worsen symptoms, so the plan is to test the efficacy of your prepack after NE's.
Lastly, since I don't really eat fish (only once in a while) I always include fish oil in my prepack. Actually I try to take the Fish Oil a few days a week but often forget. So tonight I purchased the Flaxseed Oil. I always thought they served the same purpose with the Omega 3's - so what do you think about taking both? Is it too much?
Sorry if these questions sound ridiculous... I have never been one to pay attention to these kind of details.
Thanks for all the help.
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Quantum, I just read this. Flaxseed oil vs. Fish oil. Nevermind the source, am sure there are millions of articles that say both flaxseed oil is better and others say fish oil is. Wondering why you choose Flaxseed Oil?
https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/nutrition/the-best-omega-3-supplement-flaxseed-oil-vs-fish-oil/
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Hi Michael,
First, it's great to see the huge progress you have made in the last months. You now have an effective pre-pack to control the symptoms of any "waking state" release, when you take it before. That's a great, great improvement !
Next step is NE management, of course. I agree, they are unpredictable, and can happen a few days after a waking state release, or before the usual delay. I have that too, but happily, it happens far less often as I age ( I am 52).
Did you try taking the exact same pre-pack you take before a planned release, as soon as you are aware that you had a NE ? If so, what were the results ? From what you have written, I guess that the B-complex part of your pre-pack version does not work very well as a "post-NE pack". In that regard, I think getting some quercetin, curcumin and flaxseed is something worth trying. I use them, and they are also useful post-NE, even if best when taken as a pre-pack. Also, they are all safe supplements, and all three are largely recognized as healthy substances.
Whenever I have "leftover POIS symptoms", be it from a NE or else, I have to take some supplements every 4 to 6 hours, to control those symptoms. I usually cycle between supplements from one supplement dose to another, for better results. This imply I use some interesting supplements that are not in my pre-pack. I stopped stacking things in my pre-pack when it got to a point of reliable efficiency. but that does not mean that supplements like vitamin C, ginkgo, Moducare, taurine, pine bark extract, berry extracts, and so on, are not helping against my POIS, and I often use them and similar ones against remaining symptoms.
I think you would be afraid of how many supplements I have here in stock...lol . Many POIS sufferers tried so many supplements, alone or in combination, that we often end with a full cupboard. I even have a box in the basement with those that I did not tolerate well, along with a note of what happened when I tried them ( we never have too much information, so I collect alI the info I can). However, I have around 30 supplements I use, that I know have positive effects for me, be it for my POIS, for sport, or other reason like when I have a cold or else. My current trend is to eat more veggies and fruits through my green smoothies, and take less supplements, but my anti-POIS pre-pack is still essential and cannot be skipped.
Claritin D 24hours is not available in Canada neither. But, it is over the counter and easy to mimic. If someone takes on regular Claritin 24hours, along with a 60mg tablets of pseudoephedrine, at the same time, and then 12 hours after, results are equivalent. There are many brands of plain, 12 hours pseudoephedrine, like Sudafed, ask the pharmacist to show one to you if interested in trying it, and make sure that the formulation has no other ingredients in the formula ( and, of course, check with the pharmacist if this is suitable and safe for you).
About fish oils and flaxseed, I must underline that I do not take the flaxseeds for their omega-3 content, but for the lignans in it, which are good antioxidants, and NMDA receptors blockers, so good against excitotoxicity and anxiety. For omega-3 , fish oils are a far more effective source, but flaxseed oil is an alternative if you are vegan. So, you will see that I have BOTH omega-3 and flaxseed oil in my pre-pack, but for different reasons :)
I have developed my pre-pack as a whole, so it's hard to say which is the more important - they all are. I have made many tests over many months, I have tried many pre-pack versions, and at the end, this one was satisfying. I even have considered the cost/effectiveness ratio of it, so I have eliminated more expansive supplements like Moducare, which was otherwise part a an equally effective previous version of my pre-pack ( I had already in mind the project of sharing my pre-pack composition on the forum in order to help other members, so i wanted it to be more accessible, cost-wise).
Let me know about your progress with NE symptoms management, Michael !
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Thanks Quantum. It is indeed "huge progress". Never thought I'd see the day. Quality of like increasing overnight literally by 70%. I attribute the remaining 30% to NE's and the fact that release is still programmed which may become an issue in a relationship. But even POIS symptoms themselves have dramatically shifted to manageable with the introduction of mindfulness/presence. Send my regards over there in Canada to Eckhart Tolle if you run into him at Starbucks. :)
I can't remember if I took the entire prepack or just the B3 and probably B1, B6, B12 with it after my last NE. Think I tried the whole prepack the first time and it did prolonged POIS and made anxiety worse, and the next NE just the B3 which prolonged it and worsened anxiety. Basically, enough the scare me out trying it again.
I am still VERY curious about what was recently brought up again in a different post regarding having another release after a NE using the prepack. You mentioned at least one person had success with this. I would LOVE to try this but now is not an ideal time to play around with things. May consider trying it if NE's become a bigger issue. I do like your previous words on avoiding looking at all the beauties and avoiding movies, etc... no doubt this makes us more prone to NEs.
I get totally lost in all the medical terminology which you guys discuss regarding the causes - this may need to change if I am to treat it better and contribute more.
Thanks for the clarifying claritin. May give that 12 hour a try then. I am curious why you don't try it and a few other suggestions such as a release after NE with your prepack? Guessing the same reason as all of us - you are scared shitless of pois to the power of 2. :) Wish we had more data from other users here. Any way to reach out to folks? Get some phone numbers, call and discuss for 2 minutes a set group of questions? Anonymously of course. Or by email or whatever. Which leads in to my next question, how the hell do you explain POIS to your family? Assuming most/all don't just tell it how it is. There is no need to explain/label it as such, but when you're in the midst of a cycle and you are clearly 'off key', family senses something wrong. My grandmother assumed I didn't sleep well last night when she saw me this morning. I just said I don't feel great. I don't mention POIS, but I don't like to lie. I was thinking this morning to create some excuse, 'I get neuroinflammation from time to time, triggered by random events, etc. Being from a very inquisitive family doesn't make excuses easy... Any ideas? What do you do?
Yes I read your other on why you use flaxseed, but had written my post before reading it. Thanks for clarifying.
As always, thanks for your incredibly valuable and helpful responses. Apologies for the lengthy posts.
Hi Michael,
First, it's great to see the huge progress you have made in the last months. You now have an effective pre-pack to control the symptoms of any "waking state" release, when you take it before. That's a great, great improvement !
Next step is NE management, of course. I agree, they are unpredictable, and can happen a few days after a waking state release, or before the usual delay. I have that too, but happily, it happens far less often as I age ( I am 52).
Did you try taking the exact same pre-pack you take before a planned release, as soon as you are aware that you had a NE ? If so, what were the results ? From what you have written, I guess that the B-complex part of your pre-pack version does not work very well as a "post-NE pack". In that regard, I think getting some quercetin, curcumin and flaxseed is something worth trying. I use them, and they are also useful post-NE, even if best when taken as a pre-pack. Also, they are all safe supplements, and all three are largely recognized as healthy substances.
Whenever I have "leftover POIS symptoms", be it from a NE or else, I have to take some supplements every 4 to 6 hours, to control those symptoms. I usually cycle between supplements from one supplement dose to another, for better results. This imply I use some interesting supplements that are not in my pre-pack. I stopped stacking things in my pre-pack when it got to a point of reliable efficiency. but that does not mean that supplements like vitamin C, ginkgo, Moducare, taurine, pine bark extract, berry extracts, and so on, are not helping against my POIS, and I often use them and similar ones against remaining symptoms.
I think you would be afraid of how many supplements I have here in stock...lol . Many POIS sufferers tried so many supplements, alone or in combination, that we often end with a full cupboard. I even have a box in the basement with those that I did not tolerate well, along with a note of what happened when I tried them ( we never have too much information, so I collect alI the info I can). However, I have around 30 supplements I use, that I know have positive effects for me, be it for my POIS, for sport, or other reason like when I have a cold or else. My current trend is to eat more veggies and fruits through my green smoothies, and take less supplements, but my anti-POIS pre-pack is still essential and cannot be skipped.
Claritin D 24hours is not available in Canada neither. But, it is over the counter and easy to mimic. If someone takes on regular Claritin 24hours, along with a 60mg tablets of pseudoephedrine, at the same time, and then 12 hours after, results are equivalent. There are many brands of plain, 12 hours pseudoephedrine, like Sudafed, ask the pharmacist to show one to you if interested in trying it, and make sure that the formulation has no other ingredients in the formula ( and, of course, check with the pharmacist if this is suitable and safe for you).
About fish oils and flaxseed, I must underline that I do not take the flaxseeds for their omega-3 content, but for the lignans in it, which are good antioxidants, and NMDA receptors blockers, so good against excitotoxicity and anxiety. For omega-3 , fish oils are a far more effective source, but flaxseed oil is an alternative if you are vegan. So, you will see that I have BOTH omega-3 and flaxseed oil in my pre-pack, but for different reasons :)
I have developed my pre-pack as a whole, so it's hard to say which is the more important - they all are. I have made many tests over many months, I have tried many pre-pack versions, and at the end, this one was satisfying. I even have considered the cost/effectiveness ratio of it, so I have eliminated more expansive supplements like Moducare, which was otherwise part a an equally effective previous version of my pre-pack ( I had already in mind the project of sharing my pre-pack composition on the forum in order to help other members, so i wanted it to be more accessible, cost-wise).
Let me know about your progress with NE symptoms management, Michael !
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P.S am compelled to document that this is usually my killer day of POIS, the 2nd (and usually last) day of POIS cycle.
This appears to be the first time I have felt far less (almost non-existent) anxiety in a normal POIS cycle. Can't say how tomorrow will be, usually by the 3rd day it's back down to earth without much sign of POIS.
Attributing it to the Quercetain, Peppered Curcumin, Flaxseed Oil, 2 Nurofen tablets and a few extra Fish Oil tablets to fight off the neuroinflammation or symptoms.
There is hope... :)
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P.S am compelled to document that this is usually my killer day of POIS, the 2nd (and usually last) day of POIS cycle.
This appears to be the first time I have felt far less (almost non-existent) anxiety in a normal POIS cycle. Can't say how tomorrow will be, usually by the 3rd day it's back down to earth without much sign of POIS.
Attributing it to the Quercetain, Peppered Curcumin, Flaxseed Oil, 2 Nurofen tablets and a few extra Fish Oil tablets to fight off the neuroinflammation or symptoms.
There is hope... :)
That's good news, Michael !
All these products are worthy members of my own anti-POIS arsenal. Taking one alone do not show significative change, but stacked together, they make a big difference.
It is very interesting that you can repeat the same good results that I have, and that some other members have, with this kind of combination of products. This prove that there is more in this pack than just placebo effect. That's obvious in my own case that it is not just placebo effect, because of over 2 years of reliable effectiveness, but seeing this effectiveness for other members is further proof that these substances, used together, can be effective against POIS, and not just for myself.
About the disclosure or not about having POIS, I would say it is better to stay in general terms, like you do, and not to go into specifics. This is a rare disorder, not known by anyone, hard to understand, and, moreover, it is linked to your intimacy. Opening up about this looks to me more like tons of problems and unwanted questions, and some may even question your sanity. Furthermore, if "Doctors" say you have nothing and all exams are good, I let you guess what happens next.....because poeple tend to think that doctors must know about anything about any illness that exists.
Personally, I only disclosed this condition to my spouse, and my psychotherapist, and never talked about it to my family. They may think that I am a kind of madman, a depressed, anxious, unstable man, because I didn't have anything to control my symptoms for years, and I often been in acute POIS phase, not being myself at all, for years. Later, my employers thought that I was unstable too, being highly efficient one day, and near useless the day after, but I have no regrets to have never talked about anything to them. Anyway, it's only less than 3 years ago that I have found I am not alone in the world with this condition, and found that there was a name for it.
So, I think you should go for structured answers, like you already do, about neuroinflammation in your body, that make you feel sick ( which is the truth). They do not have to know that this is triggered by ejaculation. You can say don't know why al these symptoms happen, which again is quite true, considering that we know almost nothing about POIS, but that you have found some natural products that are helping you feeling better, and you will cope with that. You can even say that your doctor didn't find anything, but you think it seems to be a mysterious condition like fibromyalgia or else, that doctors don't know yet about and don't know how to diagnose and treat.
I hope this will help you in your reflection.
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Okay great, we are on the same page with disclosure... I never planned to mention the specific perceived trigger but to keep it vague without being dishonest.
Sorry to hear that it's only been 3 years, I bet they have been great though and you must have a rare appreciation for life that few people have these days. I can sense that in your responses and willingness to help others.
I am sure the Quercetain, Peppered Curcumin and Flaxseed combined with Nurofen did the trick. I have never not had shocking anxiety on my 2nd day of POIS. Unless there are residual effects from the previous night (release was Friday 11 pm and the NE took place Sunday at 5 am. The B's would be out of the system by then right? Read somewhere in this forum they are out of the body in 6 hours or so, if I remember correctly. I didn't take any B supplements on Saturday.
Interesting anyway. Will keep testing. At least for now I won't be terrified by the next NE. If it's placebo than fantastic, it simply shows me the perceived expected anxiety is causing my actual anxiety and I will simply work on remaining mindful in this period. Don't think so though, there's a clear difference it seems in my view about anxiety caused by an imbalance and natural anxiety.
Anyway, work in progress... grateful for your response as always Quantum. If in fact your prepack is helping reduce NE symptoms by even half, you have changed another person's life completely... either way, can't thank you enough.
All the best there!
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Michael,
I am very grateful for your kind words. I am happy that what I have found can be helpful for others, and yes, I am happy to help others, like you have figured out. Not a lot of members have tried my pre-pack method so far, but in the last year, some have, like yourself, and have reported good results.
You are right about the B vitamins, they are water-soluble, so the excess do not gather in the body, but is excreted in the urine, as you can see by the deep yellow color of it in the hours following the uptake. After 6 to 8 hours, not much effect remains, unless you use an extended release formula.
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Romies, I'll read into your prepack, although from what I skimmed through, it sounds like you take yours daily? Perhaps was wrong, will have another read over your post.
Michael218,
Sorry for missing your posts earlier. I hope you are feeling better now.
About my pre-pack: I don't not take it daily. It is only used before having sex, immediately after an NE (I keep an emergency pack on my night-stand), and before weight training (a simpler version: Curcumin, Quercetin, sometimes Celebrex)
About Clarityne-D: my experiences with the 12 hour-release was too harsh. But maybe the Australian formulation has a different drug delivery mechanism, so it could be different. In the US, the 24-hour version is much smoother than the 12-hr version.
I am not sure Claritin itself is that important. Sudafed (the D part of Sudafed) (even the instant release version) spread out during the day may be sufficient.
Sudafed does have side effect, increased blood pressure and heart rate for example. So it is not for everyone. And I will skip it if I don't have any mission critical task on that day.
About Flaxseed oil vs. Fish oil, see the page 48 and 49 of the following book with references to peer-reviewed journals.
https://books.google.com/books?id=v6fuDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA1&dq=enteroimmunology&pg=PA48#v=onepage&q=enteroimmunology&f=false
The short answer to your question is
1. if you are already eating a lot of Omega-6 fatty acid, flaxseed oil (ALA) does not help much.
2. flaxseed oil is very hard to store, too easily oxidized
3. you may need 1 gram of EPA+DHA a day for 30-60 days, which translates to 2-3 gram of fish oil a day (fish oil is not 100% EPA+DHA).
"leftover POIS symptoms" after an NE.
I found that I sometimes need 1-2 5HTP (12-hr time-released) tablets to give me energy after an NE. As long as you are not on any SSRI, 5-HTP should be pretty safe for 1-2 days. You might have been depleted of typtophan after an NE without a pre-pack. Anxiety is often associated with low serotonin (typtophan --> 5htp --> serotonin (5ht))
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Quantum & Romies - thanks for the replies.
Romies, you mention "sometimes" Celebrex? Celebrex is prescription here. Am curious why you only use it sometimes - how are your results with only the Curcumin and Quercetain excluding Celebrex? Good enough? As for Sudafed, I took it for a cold last week and it made me feel very strange. Unless the symptoms are terrible after the next NE and the Curcumin, Quercetain & Nurofen aren't effective, I may give it a try. 5-HTP is expensive here and isn't found in many stores for legal reasons. Just ordered Natrol 100 mg slow release off iHerb (thanks for noting the brand and details Romies). I will go for the 100 mg considering my mental symptoms are shocking.
Is iHerb a reliable source of vitamins/supplements? I am concerned there are fakes around. Have spent way too much abroad in countries within Asia and South America where they have counterfeits everywhere and you need to be very careful. Perhaps people can recommend a reliable store? Not sure about the advertising rules on this forum, but surely a link to a reputable online store that ships internationally is fair game considering the degree of collective suffering experienced here. :)
Is there any exciting research going on about POIS that people are waiting on? I wouldn't have a clue.
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Romies, you mention "sometimes" Celebrex? Celebrex is prescription here. Am curious why you only use it sometimes - how are your results with only the Curcumin and Quercetain excluding Celebrex? Good enough?
Yes, Celebrex is also Rx-only in the US, where I am based. I use it perhaps 30-40% of the time, precisely because it is a Rx-med with known side effects.
If I am not sleep deprived, not having a recent O, and I don't have a stressful day the day after (meaning I can live with 10-20% of the symptoms), I would just go with Curcumin and Quercetin only. You need COX2 for PGF2alpha for muscle growth, so I don't want to throw the baby away with the bath water.
As for Sudafed, I took it for a cold last week and it made me feel very strange. Unless the symptoms are terrible after the next NE and the Curcumin, Quercetain & Nurofen aren't effective, I may give it a try.
There are many different formulation of Sudafed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudafed
I wonder whether yours has phenylephrine instead.
For me, the active ingredient in Claritin D is Pseudoephedrine. If you don't have the 24-hr time-released Pseudoephedrine, I would say a 60mg instant release taken at morning, noon and late afternoon maybe sufficient. I metabolize Pseudoephedrine pretty quickly, in 4-5 hrs. But if you were a slow metabolizer, you may want to skip the afternoon dose.
Even though Pseudoephedrine is OTC, it is "scheduled listed chemical product" in the US. So I have to give my driver's license to the pharmacist for logging when buying it. It is probably treated the same way in Australia. But, you don't need to consume that many per month. For me, a pack last for several months.
And for non-NE Os, I don't need Pseudoephedrine.
5-HTP is expensive here and isn't found in many stores for legal reasons. Just ordered Natrol 100 mg slow release off iHerb (thanks for noting the brand and details Romies). I will go for the 100 mg considering my mental symptoms are shocking.
Natrol 100mg 12hrs is what I am taking too.
When I am not in a POIS-state (i.e. not tryptophan/5htp depleted), 5-htp makes me sleepy, because it gets converted to Melatonin.
When I am in a POIS state, 5htp gets converted to serotonin, and gives me the energy that coffee/tea cannot deliver.
You use the different to tell whether your POIS is related to TDO/IDO activation which depletes tryptophan and serotonin.
Is iHerb a reliable source of vitamins/supplements? I am concerned there are fakes around. Have spent way too much abroad in countries within Asia and South America where they have counterfeits everywhere and you need to be very careful. Perhaps people can recommend a reliable store? Not sure about the advertising rules on this forum, but surely a link to a reputable online store that ships internationally is fair game considering the degree of collective suffering experienced here. :)
Not sure about iHerb. Does Amazon deliver to Australia?
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Quantum & Romies - thanks for the replies.
Is iHerb a reliable source of vitamins/supplements? I am concerned there are fakes around. Have spent way too much abroad in countries within Asia and South America where they have counterfeits everywhere and you need to be very careful. Perhaps people can recommend a reliable store? Not sure about the advertising rules on this forum, but surely a link to a reputable online store that ships internationally is fair game considering the degree of collective suffering experienced here. :)
I ordered once from iHerbs and it was O.K. But I have found since https://www.vitacost.com/, and I like their service, their prices, large inventory, efficient shipping, and their private brands products, and have been using this intermet store for about 2 to 3 years now.
( disclaimer: I have no financial interest in vitacost.com and I am not linked to them in any way other than being a customer)
They ship in 160 countries ( https://www.vitacost.com/international-shipping ), but there are some restrictions linked to your own country regulations. When this happens, you are warned instantly at check out, which I like because it makes things clear and avoids future complications ( for example, some product cannot be shipped here in Canada in quantity exceeding one month supply, and I am warned at check out, so I can modify my order accordingly before confirmation of the order. Some products can simply not be shipped to Canada, and I am warned as well, and I must delete them from my cart in order to be able to proceed further.).
Is there any exciting research going on about POIS that people are waiting on? I wouldn't have a clue.
For clinical study/formal medical research, nothing new for now.
I think this is on this forum lately that very valuable posts have been made about POIS :)
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Thanks guys. Sounds good Romies, am looking forward to receiving the 5htp, hopefully it arrives given Australia's regulations but 1 bottle of it should slip through customs. Lacking a bit in energy today and mood (after last night's 'o'), so hopefully it will help with that.
So far continued success with the B's. Very slight anxiety today and a bit lacking in energy after last night, but an 80% reduction overall which is great.
Quantum, is it safe to take these high potency B vitamins once a week or so? I also wonder, if in a relationship, in the beginning, things happen more regularly... people here have mentioned taking the B1, 6, 12 daily enables them to release more often without worrying about the timing and empty stomach? But is that safe, even to do that in the first few weeks of a relationship? Challenges eh.
Gotta be careful, there is about 50 mg of B6 in this magnesium supplement, and took 2 of those last night a few hours apart, along with the high potency B6 on its own. Only remembered later the magnesium has B6 too. I believe this can be potentially harmful to take too much B6.
Bit confused as to the 'fasting' prior to o, given that it's not sure if the B3 is doing the work or the B1, 6, 12 or all. Been fasting 2 hours lately and haven't had any real issues.
Your prepack Quantum/Romies certainly simplifies things, if it works for people.
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P.S thanks for the sites! Will look at Vitacost next order. Sounds great. Amazon am a little sceptical due to it being private sellers... who knows where they store it, how long for, etc? May be worth a try though if the ratings are good for the seller. Will wait and see. We take these vitamins so often and for the long term so I guess cost effectiveness is a factor.
Cheers.
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Quantum, is it safe to take these high potency B vitamins once a week or so? I also wonder, if in a relationship, in the beginning, things happen more regularly... people here have mentioned taking the B1, 6, 12 daily enables them to release more often without worrying about the timing and empty stomach? But is that safe, even to do that in the first few weeks of a relationship? Challenges eh.
Gotta be careful, there is about 50 mg of B6 in this magnesium supplement, and took 2 of those last night a few hours apart, along with the high potency B6 on its own. Only remembered later the magnesium has B6 too. I believe this can be potentially harmful to take too much B6.
Bit confused as to the 'fasting' prior to o, given that it's not sure if the B3 is doing the work or the B1, 6, 12 or all. Been fasting 2 hours lately and haven't had any real issues.
Your prepack Quantum/Romies certainly simplifies things, if it works for people.
Hi Michael,
This link about B6 should help you see what fits for you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16320662 .
Also, I think it should be best for you to find a source of magnesium that has no B6 in it, that would make your dosing easier, and would eliminate any risk of confusion.
I'm glad that the pre-pack simplifies your life. You mention the early stage of a relationship. Being in a relationship, either at early stage, or 26 years later ( in my situation), we have to be conscious that POIS remains of source of complications. Even with an efficient pre-pack, POIS stays rather complicated and can get in the way of spontaneity. POIS also puts a limit on the frequency, depending of the protection limit your control method brings you ( usually, even with a good relief method, sky is not the limit...), and that can be bothersome and become a problem if there are more releases in the same week. Note that even for guys with no POIS, there is always a personal limit anyway as to how many times you can have a release per day and per week - humans are not machines - but POIS sufferers are far more limited for obvious reasons.
Like I have already said, a relationship when you have POIS, if you want it to last more than a few months or so, would be with a person who is more centered on the heart than on sex, and has an intelligence above average ( I know, I know, it's not that easy to find......). If you are with a closed-minded person, who is rather selfish, and have a high libido, you will have rather useless and frequent arguments, or you will try to "follow the rhythm" and your sexual drive, and end up with a constant hellish life, having significant POIS symptoms most of the time. It's like trading almost everything else in your life for a more intense sexual life. In both of the above cases, I predict a short-lived relationship.
It's tougher when you are younger to stay put with a less frequent sexual activity, even when in couple, but there is some give and take, because POIS symptoms are a bit easier to go through when you are young ( and you are sometime in vacations. too, and that simplifies things a lot !) However, it's easier to accept a less intense sexual life as you age, and overall, you have a much more satisfying life, with kids and a family life, a social life with friends, sports, a professional life, and so on. Just my opinion, which is based 'just' on near 40 years of POIS ;)
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Hi Quantum - I definitely see it the same way. That was not really the essence of the question, the issue was more to avoid POIS at the beginning of a relationship.
1.) Avoiding POIS in the very first 2-4 weeks, whereby things may eventuate relatively more spontaneously.
2.) One wouldn't reveal POIS at the very beginning of any relationship, so if you do experience symptoms in those first few weeks as you get to know the other person, you may be perceived as 'off key' in those few days. So the idea is to avoid POIS symptoms from getting in the way of a newly developing relationship in those first few weeks where everything is more magnified in a relationship, until the other person has a deeper understanding of who you are. The scenario assumes there is depth and character in the other person, and the relationship has nothing to do with sex. Ideally that deeper understanding would already be there at the time when things progress sexually, but that isn't always the case...
Interesting to read your response though, you raise good points! And thanks for the B6, I planned to buy a new Magnesium free of B6 after this monster box of pills is used up anyway.
Thanks!
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Holy crap. Thanks for the link Quantum, much needed wake up call on the B6 early in the piece. Life saver. Cheers!
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Hi guys, just wondering - what supplements exactly are you guys taking to get rid of remaining 10-20% symptoms if they appear and how often are you taking them? Particularly the anxiety/mental symptoms...
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Hi Michael,
I can quote what I wrote in the post describing my method of managing my symptoms, it is still valid to this day:
For low blood pressure: Currently, I have no more low blood pressure problems if I take my pre-pack correctly. However, If I notice after release that my BP is becoming borderline low ( which is for me, something like 107/68), I take some rosemary or some green tea extract, or sometime another 25mg of 5-HTP with some green tea extract. Having no more hypotension and extreme fatigue is in itself a great, great success for me in POIS control, and can be accounted as a 50% relief at least. Hypotension has been causing me a loooooot of fatigue, lightheadedness, intolerance to exercise, cold sweat, depressive feelings, sense of powerlessness, trouble going through my day at work, and so on ….
For residual fatigue : even if I have no hypotension ( low blood pressure), I can sometime feel a certain level of fatigue, even if I have taken my pEp (pre-pack). I then take one or two of the following, at moderate dose, which are essentially antioxidants and or IDO or TDO inhibitors: ginkgo biloba, vitamin C, grape seed extract, milk thistle, Vitalux\AREDS blend of antioxydants (cheap and easily found in pharmacies as they are used as eye vitamins, against age-related macular degeneration - ARMD ), lycopene, green tea extract, Moducare, peppered turmeric, or other good antioxidants blend, like SuperVision, from Webber Naturals.
For residual anxiety, irritability, and other emotional symptoms: I will add some omega-3, some flaxseed oil, some l-theanine, some other magnesium, or other NMDAR antagonists, like taurine and zinc . If it is near bedtime, I can use Relora or Passionflower, but not during the day, they cause me too much drowsiness.
I say that I take "other antioxidants". you can include in that the pine bark extract talked about lately on the forum, it works well. I have bought pomegranate extract last year and it is a valuable antioxidant too. Astaxanthin is another very good antioxidant I use.
those I have mentioned for anxiety are really those who work best for me: omega-3, flaxseed oil, L-theanine, magnesium, taurine, etc... along with other things that helps, like epsom salts bath ( which is a good way to absorb magnesium, because epsom is composed of sulfate magnesium ), meditation, exercise, etc... GABA supplement capsules are good too, but in the evening, because I feel they make me a bit drowsy, like valerian, passiflora, or Relora.
Rosemary is mentioned for my low blood pressure, but is also good for my anxiety.
Curcumin is mentioned for fatigue, but is also good for my anxiety.
I take some supplements every 3 to 4 hours as needed, and I alternate, I do not take the same as previous dose.
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Hi guys, just wondering - what supplements exactly are you guys taking to get rid of remaining 10-20% symptoms if they appear and how often are you taking them? Particularly the anxiety/mental symptoms...
For me, the remaining anxiety/mood/fatigue have two possibilities (can be different on different days).
1.If my OCD tendency goes up, and mood is down, I am probably in a low-serotonin state. 5-HTP is helpful for me. In the worst case, I will need 2 doses of 200mg timed-release 5htp, 12 hr apart, in addition to the initial dose after an NE.
If a dose 5-htp makes you sleepy (because of the melatonin converted from serotonin), then you don't need any more 5htp dose for that particular NE-POIS episode
2. If there is no OCD tendency, and mood is okay. All the NMDAR antagonists quantum suggested would do. But they do make me drowsy, so I usually just make sure I am not Mg-deficient when I might have a NE.
Mg-Malate is one of the few Mg supplement that energizes me, probably due to the malic acid in it.
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Thanks for that guys. Appreciate it. In another POIS cycle, had a planned release with prepack at about 9-10 pm which was fine but then a NE at 1 am. How lucky. Feels like it's going to be a heavy cycle for 2-3 days.
I read that Daveman had success taking Niacin in POIS and having another orgasm 1 hr after as his normal routine and it takes him out of POIS.
I wonder if it's worth trying... my prepack is about 10-12 pills and they are maximum doses eg. B6 I take 200 mg, Niacinamide 500 mg, B12 1000 mcg, etc.
Too much to do that twice in less than 24 hours as a 1-off?
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Also, noticed you guys take straight magnesium. Most magnesium here contains some B6 to help absorb the magnesium - so how do you ensure your magnesium capsule is absorbed well? I bought a plain magnesium capsule with no B6, so I am curious about this...
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Hi Michael,
Well, sadly, NEs are not always predictable, and you are still young enough to have a NE just following a recent release.
About the niacin and another O, I am not the one who would try this kind of gamble, and play "double or quit" with another O. You do what you think is the best for you, but I usually lean on the safe side. 3 releases in 2 days will be hard on you if the gamble do not pay off. ( At any rate, you should read this detailed message by Observer, about this protocol, as well as my comment just following it: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2481.msg21604#msg21604 )
About magnesium, I have been using it for decades ( with no B6). In fact, for years, magnesium has been the only anti-POIS tool I had ( remember that I have been alone with POIS for 37 years or so before finding this forum). So, I would say, I know my magnesium was absorbed because it was relieving my symptoms. Of course, a part of it was not, and that is what causes loose stools. Now that I have a lot of anti-POIS tools in my pack, I do not have to take high and frequent magnesium doses. I have less side effects, and also, much better relief. Maybe, If I had taken preparations of magnesium with B6, I may have taken less magnesium to get a relief, who knows.... but here in Canada, it is not common to have B6/Magnesium preparations.
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Thanks for the prompt and much needed reply while in POIS. Today is a bit of a struggle, I feel mentally weak, slow memory recall, fogged, and have less patience than normal.
It's a gamble for this POIS cycle but if proven effective, it would be used for all future NE's, in which case it is definitely worth trying. That being said, I need to be alert for tomorrow so I won't take the risk. I really hope to get more mental relief from your curcumin/5-htp/quercetain/magnesium/ibprofen combo so that tomorrow, which is usually my POIS doomsday, it will be less severe. How on earth will I restore brain function, will be popping a shitload of pulls today to try to reduce the inflammation and restore a stable mind.
Taking your combo 2-3 times a day won't kill us if done once in a while (hopefully).
Thanks for your info re magnesium - I have 500mg magnesium chelate (says to take up to 3 capsules twice daily with food). I find it confusing though with magnesium, there are different variations. Mine is natures own and contains "magnesium amino acid chelate 500 mg equiv. To elemental magnesium 100 mg" as stated on the bottle. So I guess it's really only 100 mg.
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Point taken with Observer's post, re if Niacin doesn't work for you it won't work afterwards. Obviously you would apply your own prepack variation for the test.
To me, the basic principle makes sense. I sense my POIS is the brain getting overstimulated at orgasm, and can feel it - a tingly, buzzing brain followed by inflammation. So if you're in POIS, it seems logical to me to make your mind go through the same process to awaken and stimulate your neurotransmitters again to that pre-orgasm point, but this time the protection of the pre-pack preventing the extreme high dropping to an extreme low immediately after ejaculation - returning you to your normal state.
Any record of other pre-pack users trying this successfully? Apart from Niacin users?
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Point taken with Observer's post, re if Niacin doesn't work for you it won't work afterwards. Obviously you would apply your own prepack variation for the test.
To me, the basic principle makes sense. I sense my POIS is the brain getting overstimulated at orgasm, and can feel it - a tingly, buzzing brain followed by inflammation. So if you're in POIS, it seems logical to me to make your mind go through the same process to awaken and stimulate your neurotransmitters again to that pre-orgasm point, but this time the protection of the pre-pack preventing the extreme high dropping to an extreme low immediately after ejaculation - returning you to your normal state.
Any record of other pre-pack users trying this successfully? Apart from Niacin users?
Hi Michael,
I do not think my pre-pack would have the same effect that niacin does for a "second E after a previous one", I feel like it could be something specific to niacin. For me, while in POIS, a second release have always lead to amplification of symptoms. I never tried a second E after taking a pre-pack after the first, because I always take my pre-pack, either before, which is clearly the best, or minutes after a release if I have been"caught" by surprise because of a spontaneous "event" with my spouse. For NE, I aslo take my pre-pack as soon as I can... the relief I get this way is enough, I wouldn't try another release to see what would happen... If i would be in my 20s or 30s, I may have tried, but a hard POIS cycle may be tougher to get through when over 50, I guess.
It would be interesting to have other testimonies about this approach, for those who see in this an interesting possibility for NE management ( because otherwise, I think a pre-pack is clearly a better and simpler approach).
Regarding the different magnesium salts, the concentration is in salt weight, not in elemental weight, so it is good to have the elemental magnesium equivalence per tablet. If you want more info, you can go to https://www.paleohacks.com/magnesium/help-me-figure-out-magnesium-how-to-calculate-elemental-magnesium-17726 ( I didn't double check the mg equivalence given there, but it seems ok).
Curcumin, magnesium, and the like are quite safe to use, and recommended dosage usually allow for repeat in the same day. Let me know what results you have with your "post-packs".
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In another POIS cycle, had a planned release with prepack at about 9-10 pm which was fine but then a NE at 1 am. How lucky. Feels like it's going to be a heavy cycle for 2-3 days.
Most of the Quantum's pre-pack supplements have a serum (blood) half life of 6-8 hrs. Ibuprofen is the only exception, but Quantum rarely use Ibuprofen himself. So I would say that you should be still protected when you had the NE.
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Also, noticed you guys take straight magnesium. Most magnesium here contains some B6 to help absorb the magnesium - so how do you ensure your magnesium capsule is absorbed well? I bought a plain magnesium capsule with no B6, so I am curious about this...
The magnesium amino acid chelate are already good for absorption. In addition to the ones you talked about, there are many highly-absorb-able magnesium supplements without B6, such magnesium citrate, magnesium malate etc. Too much magnesium citrate causes diarrhea, a sign that your gut cannot take in any more magnesium. Magnesium malate does not have such effect in my experience.
Too much magnesium can make one sleepy, so you don't want to overdose yourself.
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Thanks guys. My earlier reply accidentally was deleted. Today was a bit of a struggle, even with the Quantum/romies superpack. It was relatively okay I guess, but my concentration and ability to conceptualise was a bit off... I am the main carer of a few members of my family so not having this functionality is very challenging, but anxiety levels have improved quite a lot which was always the worst component of my POIS.
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Romies, I did not take Quantum's prepack prior to o. I have a different pack, but even with mine I added Curcumin and 5htp this time to try smth new with it. After the NE I immediately took an additional quercetain/curcumin/5htp/nurofen combo. And have been alternating adding lots of omega 3's and magnesium. Unfortunately I still had a bit of anxiety today, but it was just bearable.
Anyway. Have come a long way. Gotta try harder to avoid NEs, but figure out a way to manage them. Worse than the symptoms themselves is the concern that you may have a NE at a crucial time in your life where you need your brain functioning....
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Thanks guys. My earlier reply accidentally was deleted. Today was a bit of a struggle, even with the Quantum/romies superpack. It was relatively okay I guess, but my concentration and ability to conceptualise was a bit off... I am the main carer of a few members of my family so not having this functionality is very challenging, but anxiety levels have improved quite a lot which was always the worst component of my POIS.
Hi Michael,
I think that's quite good, to have much less anxiety than what you usually have after a NE (and, do not forget, after two releases within 24 hours). You are making progress! Some adjustement is still needed, but you are no more defenseless against your POIS symptoms :)
Since you are younger, maybe you need to have planned release more often, I don't know. Young members will have to figure this one out, because for me, at 52 y/o a planned release every 2 to 3 weeks is far enough, and it is not often needed because I am in a relationship. I think, anyway, that a NE can come, a few time a year, at a surprise, even when we do anything correctly, so I feel it will always be useful to have some "post-pack" in case it happens, to at least reduce the symptoms. Even if we do not know how to cure our POIS, it is great to never again have to go through a full, 100% POIS cycle, and have to deal with only like 30% or 40% of our usual POIS symptoms severity.
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I wanted to re-post here a link to an article on NE that has been shared by rudolphacunha this week:
https://www.seedoc.co/why-nightfall-happen-when-i-eat-much-and-when-i-recovered-it-happen-every-week-it-makes-me-dull-any-treatment/
Many tips are given, maybe some will find something useful in it to reduce nocturnal emissions to a minimum.
"Hi, problems of nightfall are quite common in this age group. it is not a medical disorder and happens most often due to excess accumulation of semen.
generally the condition is not seen after marriage.
1. eat less of oily and fast food
2. almonds 3-5 daily
3. eat less in dinner, drink more water
4. masturbation is not contraindicated, rather it is one of the safest form of personal sexual gratification but off course not in excess.
Night fall or wet dreams is a very common occurrence among men, especially among adolescents . This condition is characterized by involuntary ejaculation during sleep in the night or in the early hours of the morning. The problem of night fall can be very frustrating for young men because most of the times they don’t understand the reason for it and also because it is a very embarrassing thing to discuss with not only their parents but also with their peers.
The frequency of these nocturnal emissions varies from person to person, most men only experience this condition in their adolescent years but few may suffer from it all their lives. this condition is very common and nothing really to worry about except in very few cases where it is very frequent spread over a long period of time.
Exercising regularly and avoiding spicy foods can lessen the frequency of nightfall.
1. Should start jogging or brisk walking for at least 30 minutes every day.
2. Should avoid consumption of any liquid for at least 2 hours before going to sleep.
3. Should go for urination just before going to bed.
4. Should avoid watching porn or erotic chats etc.
5. Start listening to soothing music which gives peace of mind and gives soothing effects like the meditation gives.
6. Should start reading good books at the time to keep the brain relaxed for a sound sleep.
7. If night fall happens then one should not worry about this, because if people keep on thinking about nightfall or have the fear of night fall at the time of sleeping then you get more chances to have the night fall again.
8. Should avoid constipation because an upset digestive system also sometimes causes night fall.
9. If the person is having the habit of taking milk at night then they should take milk in the evening instead of at night.
10. Start doing masturbation once in a while may help control night fall.
Remember to talk to your doctor before you start or stop your medications and never self medicate. "
Obviously, for those with POIS like us, #10 tip should be a "planned release", that is, taking a pre-pack that you know helps control and lower your symptoms, 1 hours before release, so you won't get full blast POIS cycle.
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Yeah, totally agree Quantum. Can't compare to before when POIS was simply unbearable and unmanageable. Very very pleased so far with the results and am encouraged to find further solutions. For younger people, we generally need to do planned release more often to avoid NE. I would say porn is a bad idea in this case, because the more porn you watch, even for planned release to avoid NE's, the more your subconscious stores imagery from the movies. As is the case with starring at all the beauties in day to day life.
I am open to more ideas to minimising POIS after a NE... if anyone has any more ideas, let's discuss...
Wish there was a way to test these situations without the risk! Like you Quantum, pois on top of pois is a natural disaster for me.
Liked the article on avoiding NEs, found it useful - thank you!
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Hi Michael218,
Have you tried the POIS Cascade Stack (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.0). The supplements are not timed around the orgasm, they are timed around your eating schedule and any effects should last throughout the night. The water soluble supplements are taken on an empty stomach and the fat solubles with a meal. Be sure to pay attention to the dosage because some of the supplements have overdose side effect.
For me, this stack caused a complete remission of my POIS symptoms. No more sneezing, headache, runny nose, or fatigue. I don't notice the same irritability that I used to get the day after an orgasm. I also don't get sick after my workouts anymore. My recovery time (before the stack) from weight training used to be about 7 days with serious DOMS, and now it's 3 days with no DOMS (I only feel the soreness while stretching that muscle group). I do get drowsy immediately after orgasm, but so do non-POIS people.
Also I'm trying two new things to reduce my overall stress:
1. I have started wearing blue-blocking glasses to reduce stress from staring at a computer screen all day. Blue light from LCD screens (computer, smart phone, fluorescent bulbs) reduce melatonin production (from serotonin) and lead a host circadian rhythm problems.
2. I have joined a social group to interact with more people. This post describes how social interaction reduces stress: (link 1 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21550#msg21550)), and this post discusses a plausible mechanism for how stress might influence POIS: link 2 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21532#msg21532).
I don't know if these these stress reduction techniques affect POIS, but reducing stress is just generally healthy. So I thought someone might be interested.
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Yeah, totally agree Quantum. Can't compare to before when POIS was simply unbearable and unmanageable. Very very pleased so far with the results and am encouraged to find further solutions. For younger people, we generally need to do planned release more often to avoid NE. I would say porn is a bad idea in this case, because the more porn you watch, even for planned release to avoid NE's, the more your subconscious stores imagery from the movies. As is the case with starring at all the beauties in day to day life.
I am open to more ideas to minimising POIS after a NE... if anyone has any more ideas, let's discuss...
Wish there was a way to test these situations without the risk! Like you Quantum, pois on top of pois is a natural disaster for me.
Liked the article on avoiding NEs, found it useful - thank you!
You bring an interest point, Michael. If someone use a planned release, with pre-pack, at a time when there will be time to recover after in case there are some symptoms, it is better to do so without the aid of porn or without too much stimulation, so that it can help avoid "aftermath NE", a NE that comes not long after a previous ejaculation, like in the following night or 1 to 2 days after.
I think it is not uncommon to feel that some sexual activity calls for some more, in the following days, and I think the more intense it is, the more intense memories we have from it, and the more we fill the urge to repeat the experience. This urge may be come from drives outside of the conscious control, and so can manifest during our sleep.
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For me, this stack caused a complete remission of my POIS symptoms. No more sneezing, headache, runny nose, or fatigue. I don't notice the same irritability that I used to get the day after an orgasm. I also don't get sick after my workouts anymore. My recovery time (before the stack) from weight training used to be about 7 days with serious DOMS, and now it's 3 days with no DOMS (I only feel the soreness while stretching that muscle group). I do get drowsy immediately after orgasm, but so do non-POIS people.
Also I'm trying two new things to reduce my overall stress:
1. I have started wearing blue-blocking glasses to reduce stress from staring at a computer screen all day. Blue light from LCD screens (computer, smart phone, fluorescent bulbs) reduce melatonin production (from serotonin) and lead a host circadian rhythm problems.
2. I have joined a social group to interact with more people. This post describes how social interaction reduces stress: (link 1 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21550#msg21550)), and this post discusses a plausible mechanism for how stress might influence POIS: link 2 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21532#msg21532).
I don't know if these these stress reduction techniques affect POIS, but reducing stress is just generally healthy. So I thought someone might be interested.
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Hi Nanna,
it's great that you have results for both POIS and for symptoms after sports ( it's not uncommon among POIS sufferers to also have longer than usual recovery time after sports and exercise).
And, spending quality time with people we appreciate is a powerful healing practice , I totally agree :)
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Thanks for the replies guys. Nanna, I read your earlier post about your cascade pack but was a little put off by taking 10+ pills a day although the fact that you have total success with it and release doesn't need to be timed and, NEs are taken care of under this plan, I should definitely take it on board... the fact that you listed your physical symptoms first, and didn't include anxiety on your list makes me wonder if we have the same kind of POIS. I do suffer some physical symptoms but honestly, I couldn't care less about feeling fatigued as long as my brain/mood feels nice and balanced as it does outside of POIS.
The challenge I face is that I take so many supplements prior to orgasm that I really have no idea what i'm doing (for now). But my POIS is really that unbearable that any risk of taking another pack that may not work is a difficult one to take...
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I really appreciate you taking the time to point out your prepack again in this thread though for me, Nanna. Thanks again.
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Quantum/Romies- what do you think about taking your prepacks in addition to my prepack just once to determine whether your prepack works for me also? I get about 70-80% reduction with mine but I wonder if taking your prepack additionally would produce even better results and thus enable me to determine whether I may be able to switch to your prepack alone in future. Is that a bad idea in your view? Can taking your prepack or a compressed version of it (eg. Quercetin-curcumin-5htp) interfere with or reduce the effectiveness of my (rather large) prepack? Any thoughts?
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Hi Michael,
Gratz for your already great 70-80% reduction in your POIS symptoms :)
As you know, I have tweaked mine till I obtained 80% to 100% relief. What I did is adding elements one by one, and see if I got better results after a few releases ( my POIS tend to variate in intensity from one time to another, so I have to look at the average results).
I remember your pre-pack is mostly composed of B complex vitamins, and some antioxidants like vit C and E. There is no bad interactions reported with these and the 3 products you mention in your post ( quercetin-curcumin-5HTP). On the opposite, there are, for example, synergic formulas containing quercetin and vitamin C. I cannot tell you what to take or not take, that is against forum rules, but I can share that, for myself, what has worked is slowly adding elements to my pre-pack, in safe doses, till I get good enough results.
The high number of individual components can get cumbersome to take at some point. My pre-pack is like 11 pieces to take. Well, it's worth it ! I do not mind taking all these, because it protects me from the bite of the POIS beast. I have always have 2 little bottles prepared in advance, containing all the elements of my pre-pack, to ease the process.
If someone would get to the "maximum" number of pieces found acceptable to take at once, it would be then a work to interchanging those elements suspected to be less active for more efficient ones. In my case, I had a hypothesis about what causes my POIS symptoms, so the choice of the elements in my pre-pack were quite clear for me. But, as I have already shared, I do not know if all of my hypothesis are right ( IDO/TDO inhibition, pro-inflammatory cytokines blockage, and so on), but I do know that I get very good results with my pre-pack, and that is what is the most important.
This method of developing a great, custom, pre-pack, took me about six months, and I would say that after a couple of months, I already have most of it figured out ( and for sure I had at least 70-80% relief, like yourself at this point). After, it was a question of fine tuning it, and a question of evaluating the results over time.
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Quantum/Romies- what do you think about taking your prepacks in addition to my prepack just once to determine whether your prepack works for me also? I get about 70-80% reduction with mine but I wonder if taking your prepack additionally would produce even better results and thus enable me to determine whether I may be able to switch to your prepack alone in future. Is that a bad idea in your view? Can taking your prepack or a compressed version of it (eg. Quercetin-curcumin-5htp) interfere with or reduce the effectiveness of my (rather large) prepack? Any thoughts?
Hi Michael,
Here is my understanding of your regimen before. correct me if I am wrong.
Prepack: Vitamin's B1 (250mg), B6(200mg), B12 (1000mcg), B3 (500 mg, niacinamide), Vitamin C (1000 mg), Vitamin E (500IU), Fenugreek (1000 mg), Alfalfa (2 capsules).
Post pack:Zinc (40mg) and Mg(400mg)
I did have these POIS symptoms similar to yours before my current prepack regimen: brain fog, anxiety, depression, low energy, no motivation. I also had other allergy-like symptoms and upper-respiratory symptoms.
My analysis:
1. If Nurofen does not seem to work, stop taking it. Nurofen alone can activate mast cell for some people and cause more cognitive problems.
2. I might need to take a 2nd/3rd dose of 5htp (12 hrs apart) for a really bad POIS (rarely happens). 5htp is the main ingredient for me to alleviate anxiety (I become content and not caring much about all the worries).
3. I don't know much about Fenugreek or Alfalfa. But the other ingredients do not conflict with Quercetin-curcumin-5htp, because I take daily supplements of B6(morning), B12(morning), Vitamin C(before sleep) too.
Fenugreek and Alfalfa are not MAOI, so the risk of serotonin syndrome is low. However, if Alfalfa is mostly a tryptophan source for you, then you don't need it when you take 5-htp.
the last 2 times I had POIS because of an NE or missing taking the prepack, taking B3 afterwards made it really bad. Increased anxiety and symptoms lasted an extra 1-2 days! So no more B3 afterwards for me. I took it once after a NE and it made it worse, and also took it with the other B's (1,6,12) and it also made it much worse. So, no B's for me during POIS.
B3 (niacin or niacinamide) consumes a lot of methyl group during metabolism. I personally cannot tolerate them in large dose. Taking 500mg niacinimide alone will give me 6-10 hrs brainfog, even longer after exercise or an O.
Niacinamide effects on me: (my best guestimate)
1. reduced methyl group availability --> BH4 deficiency --> Dopamine, Serotonin deficiency
2. reduced methyl group availability --> unable to metabolize NorEpinephrine --> anxiety.
See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21918528
BTW, Niacin flushing never worked for me.
Potential solutions:
1. I take a daily low dose (400mcg each) Methylfolate, and methyl-B12 for this methylation issue. I suspect you may also need extra methyl group.
2. Take some SAMe as part of your post-NE pack. If it makes your anxiety worse, then you are likely to have over-methylation. But I suspect you have undermethylation. and SAMe will alleviate your symptoms. See recent posts from nanna1 about SAMe
You can find some references about the effect of niacinamide here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/nicotinamide-nad-p-h-and-methyl-group-homeostasis.18026/
and earlier (2012-2013) posts by Kurtosis are very informative on this topic.
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=5614
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Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the help.
Romies, you mentioned SAMe may help alleviate symptoms. In another post you mentioned Creatine was better than SAMe as its cheaper so I went out and bought a tub of Creatine last night. So taking Creatine is essentially performing the same function or did you specify SAMe for a reason in this case? I just took some creatine so we'll see how that goes. Also bought some Lecithin to see if that provides any further benefit.
Will report back on the Creatine at a later date.
Thanks again.
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Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the help.
Romies, you mentioned SAMe may help alleviate symptoms. In another post you mentioned Creatine was better than SAMe as its cheaper so I went out and bought a tub of Creatine last night. So taking Creatine is essentially performing the same function or did you specify SAMe for a reason in this case? I just took some creatine so we'll see how that goes. Also bought some Lecithin to see if that provides any further benefit.
Will report back on the Creatine at a later date.
Thanks again.
1.SAMe increase methylation a lot. Some people may not be able to tolerate it. For creatine, methylation is a 2nd-order effect, much milder and easier to tolerate.
2.Many people can only tolerate a certain amount of sulfur intake a day. Methionine in SAMe is a major sulfur-containing amoni-acid. With all other sulfur sources you may already have in your diet. SAMe may cause trouble.
I tolerate Creatine and SAMe both pretty well. But I go with Creatine for much lower price and less side effects (at least for me).