Author Topic: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective  (Read 38639 times)

Quantum

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After many years with POIS ( 37 years now),  I  have found things that helps me decrease the severity of my symptoms.  Then, in last November  (2014) , I have found this forum.  After many months of testing the new information I have found on this forum,  I have refined and added to my prevention and control method, and have currently a 80% to 100% rate of success.  So here is what I do, and it works for me safely.

Before describing the combination of supplements I take before release, which is a key in my higher rate of success,  I cannot left untold the following parts of my overall POIS control method, because without these, I do not think the supplements alone would bring me as much relief as they currently do:

Healthy diet:   about 15 years ago, I have started to eat a more healthy diet.  It has been an on-going process.  Now, I may have an ultra-healthy diet.  Not a cure in itself, but it sure has help reduced the fatigue and the severity of the POIS symptoms I used to have.  So, no refined sugars, no artificial flavor or color, no preservatives, no MSG, no aspartame, no suspect ingredients ( yes I read all the food labels), no fruit juices ( just whole fruits), no HFGS, no milk ( I can eat cheese, but milk causes tons of mucus production in my sinuses and in my bowels, I have replaced it by hemp,almond or rice drink in my morning organic cereals ),.....  I have introduced organic food, healthy spices, healthy veggies, veal liver, dried fruits and nuts, organic wheat grass juice, omega-3, sources of tryptophan, lots of source water, etc... I take probiotics with Lactobacillus and Bifidus strains.  All that have taken care of any bowel inflammation problems I had, which, in my opinion, worsen POIS ( I already have written about this)  Also,  I have reduced quantities I eat by half, at least ( and did not have lost a pound).  I am not a diet-freak:  I eat meat, fish, eggs, dark chocolate, I sometime drink wine, and I do not eat tofu at all – it's tasteless!  I eat at the restaurant with friends – it's just like, I won't order French fries and will chose something healthier on the menu.

Regular exercise:   a good sweat two times a week ( my preference are badminton and tennis in double – the social/team aspect is a real bonus for me).  Exercise is good for the brain and for the body.   On the second day of POIS, if I have residual symptoms, they will be gone after exercise.  I never work out/exercise two days in a row, because I recover very slowly, and ejaculation plus two times of sport, within 2 days, is too much for me to take, and I may have 30 to 40% POIS symptoms relapse because I got too tired, and that's way too much for my new standards of emotional quality of life.  If I get 20% symptoms the day following ejaculation,I avoid exercising that day, and wait for another day.  With 90% to 100% relief, no problem to exercise that day or the day after. 

Abstaining from release as much as possible:   my prevention method is based on one or two ejaculations a month, and seems to also work at once a week  ( I do not think it would work for me with multiple ejaculations in the same week).  It would take me 5 to 8 weeks without ejaculation, approx., before I may have a NE, so with one or two releases a month, I usually do not have NE.  That way, I can manage at what time I will have a release ( timing is important , as you all know!), and will be able to have taken my pre-pack before. Obviously, with my wife, my 2 kids, my business, my friends, I have much to enjoy in life, and I have not much time to devote to “POIS life suspensions”, waiting to get my life back, so I have E the less often possible. Furthermore, I am now 50 y/o, and sex has not the same importance for me now.   Of course, in a relationship for 28 years ( yes guys, it is possible, even with POIS), it is important to keep an active sexual life, and I have done so, through the years. I have managed to develop some useful strategies ( like not every relation have to end with me having a release, etc...), and found a long time ago that magnesium and green tea were helping me with POIS, so I have managed to survive...hehe...

Psychotherapy: anxiety from any sources adds up.  My childhood has left me with a tendency for anxiety ( you can call it a general anxiety disorder), and I had to live with anxiety way before POIS.  POIS will worsen my anxiety level a lot, whatever it is at the moment.  After 8 years of psychotherapy, my regular anxiety level is now low.  I'd rather raise from 1 to 3, than raise from 7 to 10, which was very detrimental to me and to those around me.   The anxiety from POIS is not “all in my head” of course, but a part of it is/was.  I have to be careful and keep my baseline anxiety as low as possible.

Daily yoga and meditation: also help to keep my baseline anxiety level as low as possible.  Again, my main POIS symptoms, apart from fatigue and hypotension, are mostly emotional:  anxiety, Irritability, mood swings, dysphoria, social phobia, lack of motivation, low self esteem, and the like.  Daily yoga and meditation have been of great help in staying centered and calm. ( P.S. 2016-01:  after reading about the Polyvagal Theory, about Heart Rate Variability ( HRV ), and also about the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, it has become clear to me that yoga and meditation are also a good way to reduce inflammation because they raise the vagal nerve activity, which in turn reduces the inflammation reactions in the body through the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, involving the spleen and the immune cells in it - see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2200.msg17995#msg17995 for details.  Other ways to raise Heart Rate Variability, like spending time with loved ones, is also as good ! )

Now, here is the composition of what I call my “pre-ejaculation pack”, or pEp, or pre-pack,  which are the supplements I take before release in order to prevent my POIS symptoms. This is my current version, and every elements is there for a reason ( written in brackets ). You will notice I like low and safe doses of several things, instead of high doses of just a few things, so what I take are safe doses:

1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )
1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, mast cells stabilizer, anxiolytic )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase , NMDAR blocker, mast cells stabilizer [EGCG] )
1 x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2 x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1 x Omega-3 triple concentration, 600 mg EPA/ 300 mg DHA ( emotional support/anxiolytic, ant-inflammatory effect )
1 x Lycopene  10mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker, and supposed mast cells stabilizer )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia )

If I have time to, I swallow the 11 pieces of my pack with « rosemary water », that is, a glass of water with one drop of rosemary essential oil in it ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also has gaba-enhancing properties through GABA transaminase inhibition, and rosemary also contains luteolin, a mast cells stabilizer ).

For my pre-pack to be effective, I have to take it at least 15 minutes before release, and best if 30 to 60 minutes before.  But not always possible, in a relationship... when things happen spontaneously, I take my pEp just at the beginning, and since I have become, with time, better than a taoist monk at delaying release, it is no big deal for me to make it last 15 to 20 minutes, so the active ingredients have time to make it to my blood stream and everywhere in my body.  Obviously, since there is many different supplements in my pEp, I always have one pack prepared in advance at my bedside, along with some water.  If I am not disciplined and take it after release, even if only 2 to 10 minutes after, the prevention and control is far less effective  ( better than nothing, but not impressive and very disappointing when I have known better relief).


Now, a short explanation about why I have chosen these particular supplements.

Of course, it is tailored to my own symptoms.  For example, I have low blood pressure as one of my main symptoms, so green tea extract helps with that.
 
Blocking the NMDA receptors is good to lower anxiety level and for other psychological symptoms, so I have put a few in there  ( Mg have been in fact the first effective tool I have found against my POIS , 15 to 20 years ago).  NMDA receptors blockers in general seems to be good for me.  As a side note, taurine is, among other things, a NMDA receptors blocker, and I read some members had good results with it ( I think about B_jim, in particular).  It has a good effect for me too, as taurine helps with anxiety, but I have it in powder, so I did not include it in my pEp for practical reasons.  I don't know if the effectiveness of taurine, magnesium, L-theanine, zinc, or the lignam in flaxseed oil, is related to their NMDA receptor blocking properties, but they are all beneficial for my POIS.  Anyway, NMDAR blockers are known for their neuroprotective properties against excitototicity, and I believe there is excitotoxicity involved in POIS pathophysiology ( in particular, I think, from quinolinic acid, as I have mentioned before).   I have read that some POIS sufferers had good results with tramadol, a potent NMDAR blocker, but I didn't try it, I have chosen not to treat myself with prescription drugs, since I can have good results with natural products and OTC products.

GABA agonists are good for anxiety, so molecules enhancing GABA activity like rosmarinic acid, that can be found in rosemary and other spices and  herbs like lemon balm, marjoram, basil, oregano, are good for me.

IDO and TDO inhibitors are good to protect the brain from the change in tryptophan metabolic pathways that I think may be in cause in POIS.  It works best for me if I use at least one IDO inhibitor with one TDO inhibitor, to block both metabolic ways by which kynurenine is produced ( this may be not the exact scientific reason why TDO inhibitors and IDO inhibitors works for my POIS, but what is sure is that they do help.  However, the kynurenine pathways implication has been scientifically proven in other illnesses, like depression, Huntington disease, and in some auto-immune diseases, so this is not folklore )

Serotonin is good for calm, well-being, socialization, and it also helps raise blood pressure. So 5-HTP, a direct serotonin precursor,  is good for me, in low dose.

Antioxidants are useful in blocking the formation of pro-inflammatory cytokines( like IL-6, TNF-alpha, etc...) , from the hypersensitivity/allergy reactions I think are part of POIS pathophysiology ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 for more details about this) .  So, my hypothesis is that by using a combination of various antioxidants, it blocks many different paths of production of those cytokines, and reduce the "cytokine storm" of the hypersensitivity reactions following release.  Antioxidants all have some anti-inflammatory properties.  By blocking different parts of the auto-immune reaction, and blocking different inflammatory cytokines, they have specific effects.  Some are known, like the known positive effects of lycopene on prostate inflammation, or the known anti-allergic properties of quercetin and bromelain.  In my own experience, anti-oxidants have a positive effect on my energy level, and on my overall health.




My POIS severity is not always the same, and I do not know why.  Sometime, when POIS is harsher, my pre-pack is not enough to get 100% prevention and relief ( that is why I say that I have from 80% to 100% relief with my method).  If there are some POIS symptoms even if I have taken my pre-pack , I will take some other supplements every 3 to 4 hours as needed.  I monitor my blood pressure, and I also have ways to estimate my level of fatigue and level of anxiety and irritability, so I can very accurately determine how relieved I am.

For low blood pressure: Currently, I have no more low blood pressure problems if I take my pre-pack correctly.  However, If I notice after release that my BP is becoming borderline low ( which is for me, something like 107/68), I take some rosemary or some green tea extract, or sometime another 25mg of 5-HTP with some green tea extract. Also, as needed throughout the day, I take water with salt added to it ( salt causes fluid retention, which makes blood pressure to raise - that's why salt must be avoided by those who have hypertension).  Salted water is cheap and very effective to raise blood pressure.   For tolerance, you have to see what one's is able to take.  I can take 1/4 teaspoon in a glass of water with no problem.  It takes about 20 to 30 mins to show results on the blood monitor.  Once my diastolic ( the second, smaller figure) raises at 70 or higher, I feel ok.
Having no more hypotension and extreme fatigue is in itself a great, great success for me in POIS control, and can be accounted as a 50% relief at least.  Hypotension has been causing me a loooooot of fatigue, lightheadedness, intolerance to exercise, cold sweat, depressive feelings,  sense of powerlessness, trouble going through my day at work, and so on ….


For residual fatigue : even if I have no hypotension ( low blood pressure), I can sometime feel a certain level of fatigue, even if I have taken my pEp (pre-pack). I then take one or two of the following, at moderate dose, which are essentially antioxidants and or IDO or TDO inhibitors:  ginkgo biloba, vitamin C, grape seed extract, milk thistle,  Vitalux\AREDS blend of antioxydants (cheap and easily found in pharmacies as they are used as eye vitamins, against age-related macular degeneration - ARMD ),  lycopene, green tea extract, Moducare, peppered turmeric, or other good antioxidants blend, like SuperVision, from Webber Naturals.

For residual anxiety, irritability, and other emotional symptoms:   I will add some omega-3, some flaxseed oil, some l-theanine, some other magnesium, or other NMDAR antagonists, like taurine and  zinc .   If it is near bedtime, I can use Relora or Passionflower, but not during the day, they cause me too much drowsiness.

My POIS used to last 2 to 3 days.  Now, with my current method of prevention and control,  I sometime have no POIS at all.  Sometime I have to take some supplements 1 or 2 hours after release. and sometime I may have to take a few supplements again up to 8 to 12 hours after release, when the effect of my pre-pack seems to fade away a bit, But rarely now do I need to take some supplements the day after. 

I know that what works for me won't necessarily works for another one.  But I hope the success I have with these supplements and this overall method will helps inspire and motivate others to build a similar overall approach for themselves.  Take note that it took me quite some time, I didn't get to 80% -100% success quickly.  Some of the elements of my pre-pack are known beneficial to me for over 10 to 15 years, like magnesium, green tea extract and rosemary essential oil.  Some other are more recent, and some came only since I have found this forum.  The idea is that I have found some core components that I know for sure are beneficial for me, then I have kept them at the same low to moderate dosage, and slowly have added other supplements one by one, not changing everything each time, or I will have never succeeded in knowing what works or not for me.  I have a file of every pre-pack versions I have used in the last year, what time before release I have taken it, and what results I got  ( Blood pressure monitoring, symptoms after 1 hour, after 2 hours, after 4 hours, ….)  so it has helped me keep a rational and scientific approach in developing my pre-pack. 

Considering the nature of this post, I have to add this disclaimer: you are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Thank you

Quantum
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 09:23:37 AM by Quantum »
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Quantum

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Just to make it clear that I not only had successes in developping my relief method, and had to try and test many things before finding a combination that really works well for me and is safe, I will mention a few things that didn't not work for me, or that made me worse. I will not list all I have tried, but my most relevant “fails”

Niacin
Niacin did not add anything for me, neutral (no negative effects), but no positive effects for my hypotension, or fatigue, or anxiety and other emotional symptoms.  In my opinion, it seems more beneficial for those who have cluster 3 symptoms, like brain fog or muscle weakness  ( for more information about my way of seeing POIS symptoms grouped in clusters, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2027.0 ).   I never had any brain fog or any other cognitive symptoms, and muscle pain and muscle weakness are not an issue for me neither – that is maybe why waiting for a niacin flush does not worth it for me.

Methylation support
Some members, in particular Kurtosis,have achieved total control over their POIS symptoms with methylation support supplements, so I got interested in methylation because of that ( I have read almost all his posts on this forum, as well as elsewhere too).  I have been reading about methylation for weeks, until I knew all I had to know about this, before trying methylation support ( I could write for hours about BH4, SAMe, L-methionine, TMG, L-methylfolate, the various cobalamine types, the methyl cycle, the methyl trap, the so-called detox reactions, the herx reactions, the various supplements used in methylation, the various SNPs involved, and the like).  Then came for me the time for testing.   I have been very, very careful.  But, well, you know, we are all different.  It didn't work at all for me. Even the smallest dose of l-methylfolate ( 1/8 of a 400mcg tablet, which means only 50mcg) would make me ill, even if taken with the appropriate amount of methylcobalamine.  I had extreme fatigue, tachycardia, and all sorts of symptoms. Like it already happened for other people sharing on CFS forums and trying methylation support,  l-methylfolate have apparently sent me in a mild to moderate hypokalemia/low potassium ( even with only 1/8 of a 400mcg tablet!).  I didn't have blood tests done, but my symptoms indeed progressively disappeared with potassium supplementation ( DO NOT take potassium without your health professional advice, it may be very detrimental to you – I took it in a very safe way, and because I am a pharmacist and know very well what doses to take and what are the signs of hypo or hyperkalemia.  Both can send you to ER, and can even cause fatal cardiac arythimia).  I tried l-mehtylfolate only 3 times, in decreasing doses, and felt ill for 2 to 3 days each time ( less the third time, because I took even less MTHF, and started potassium sooner). I sure have no interest to test further, until more is understood about methylation. TMG ( trimethylglycine, betaine), another methyl support supplement, makes me ill too, in the same manner.   Some people with ME\CFS that have been far less careful than me and have started with normal to high doses like 400mcg to 800mcg has ended up in ER with severe hypokalemia ( low potassium), and doctors just couldn't understand or believe that it has been caused by methylfolate or methylcobalamine.  So for now, I play it safe and won't take anymore of these.

These tests with methylation support has for sure revealed that I have something very unusual and not normal in my metabolism of potassium or/and l-methylfolate and TMG – maybe something as weird and unknown as hypokalemic periodic paralysis, or something similar. It may be an unknown channelopathy . Currently, no one knows what causes hypokalemia in some people when methyl support supplements are added.  I knew for a long time that I need to take more potassium than normal during and after sport ( I make my own electrolytes drink for that purpose), but these tests with methylation support supplements revealed that I may have a much more elaborate electrolytes problem in my body than I previously thought.  Take note that this has nothing to do with results shown in blood tests – I have all normal blood tests, and even had a refund on my business life insurance premium because I have top shape results in everything.  Those electrolytes movements disorders semms to happen inside some tissues or at the cellular level, and likely goes under the radar of current medical knowledge for the most part, except a few ones, just like familial hypokalemic or hyperkalemic periodic paralysis was suspected of being hysterical in nature before the role of potassium retained in muscle tissues has been identified in its pathophysiology ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channelopathy if interested in knowing more about this topic).

Regarding Kurtosis success with his POIS relief, I share with him the first part of his way of achieving this success.  His first step has been about intestinal flora management with probiotics supplementation, healthy diet, and elimination of any unhealthy food.  It is something I have started more than 15 years ago, and I can also testify that I have more energy now at 50 then I had at 30 years old.

As for the step 2 that Kurtosis is describing, I find it very interesting that, even if the hypothesis and theory behind it is different, he have been using supplements that are also working for me, like antioxidants of various sources, and many of my favorite ones, like curcumin, polyphenol blends, green tea extract, and cocoa ( that I take in the form of 85% or 90% dark chocolate), as well as blueberries. He also have used omega-3, which I am very found of.  But I do not tolerate l-methylfolate or TMG ,which have been very beneficial for him,  even if I tolerate methylcobalamine very well.   However, I tolerate food that contains methylfolate, and Kurtosis have mentioned that he sees more effectiveness in eating more greens and fruits than with pills alone.  In my case, it is clear that methylfolate pills with methylcobalamine do not work at all and are detrimental.  So, this shows once again that there is no "One size fits all" solution for POIS.

Even if my current view, involving upregulation of some enzymes of the tryptophan pathways by pro-inflammatory cytokins is different from Kurtosis view based on the NO/ONOO- cycle, I take note that they both have in common the over-activation of the NMDA receptors.  In my hypothesis, the NMDA receptors overstimulation ( excitotoxicity) is the end effect of the chain of event, throught the kynurnine pathways production of toxic products. In Kurtosis view, NMDA receptors over-activation is at the start of a vicious cycle.  I think both views could be fused in one, more complex view, in one continuous flow of event.  But of course, for now, this is only theorical, and I have no scientific proof of these hypotheses.

Vasectomy
I can mention that I underwent vasectomy 12 years ago, and, like already mentioned elsewhere on this forum, it didn't change anything for my POIS ( it wasn't the goal of the procedure anyway, but I sure have hoped at that time that it would have helped..... but it didn't ).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 09:31:42 AM by Quantum »
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G-man

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I can corroborate with Quantum that these supplements may be responsible for reducing POIS symptoms:

Curcumin
5-HTP
Green tea extract
Rosemary
Grape seed extract

In May I reported that I noticed a drastic reduction in my symptoms from taking supplements that my doctor recommended for rebuilding my gut. You may have noticed that I have been silent for a while. After about 4-6 weeks of taking the supplements daily, they began to lose their effectiveness. Since then I have been perplexed as to why that happened.

Two weeks ago I tried taking the supplements in Quantum's pEp (minus quercetin, lycopene, and potassium citrate) before an O, and it was barely effective in reducing my symptoms. Most of the supplements I take on a daily basis, so I decided to stop taking all my daily supplements. This Wednesday (two days ago) I tried taking Quantum's pEp before an O and had an 80% reduction in symptoms. I think the key here is taking the supplements only before O and when symptomatic.

Here is a list of the ingredients in the supplements I was taking for my gut; I'm thinking it is likely that the curcumin, green tea extract, rosemary, and grape seed extract contributed to the reduction in symptoms I experienced a couple months ago:

GALT Fortifier: Colostrum, Beta Glucan, Fish Protein, Okra (Dried Fruit), Lemon Balm (Leaf), Pepsin 1:10,000, Rosemary (leaf)

Vitanox: Calcium, Rosemary leaf 5:1 extract, Green Tea leaf 25:1 extract, Turmeric rhizome 25:1 extract, Grape seed 120:1 extract

Gut Flora Complex: Anise fruit essential oil, Andrographis ariel parts 10:1 extract, Phellodendron stem bark 20:1 extract, Oregano leaf essential oil

30 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

Quantum

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I can corroborate with Quantum that these supplements may be responsible for reducing POIS symptoms:

Curcumin
5-HTP
Green tea extract
Rosemary
Grape seed extract

In May I reported that I noticed a drastic reduction in my symptoms from taking supplements that my doctor recommended for rebuilding my gut. You may have noticed that I have been silent for a while. After about 4-6 weeks of taking the supplements daily, they began to lose their effectiveness. Since then I have been perplexed as to why that happened.

Two weeks ago I tried taking the supplements in Quantum's pEp (minus quercetin, lycopene, and potassium citrate) before an O, and it was barely effective in reducing my symptoms. Most of the supplements I take on a daily basis, so I decided to stop taking all my daily supplements. This Wednesday (two days ago) I tried taking Quantum's pEp before an O and had an 80% reduction in symptoms. I think the key here is taking the supplements only before O and when symptomatic.

Here is a list of the ingredients in the supplements I was taking for my gut; I'm thinking it is likely that the curcumin, green tea extract, rosemary, and grape seed extract contributed to the reduction in symptoms I experienced a couple months ago:

GALT Fortifier: Colostrum, Beta Glucan, Fish Protein, Okra (Dried Fruit), Lemon Balm (Leaf), Pepsin 1:10,000, Rosemary (leaf)

Vitanox: Calcium, Rosemary leaf 5:1 extract, Green Tea leaf 25:1 extract, Turmeric rhizome 25:1 extract, Grape seed 120:1 extract

Gut Flora Complex: Anise fruit essential oil, Andrographis ariel parts 10:1 extract, Phellodendron stem bark 20:1 extract, Oregano leaf essential oil


Hi, G-man

Great to hear that you have reach a 80% reduction in symptoms with a pre-pack similar to the one I am using.

I hope it will stay effective for you.  I am using the same version of pEp, a few time a month, for about 6 months, and in my case it is still effective.  Although I have lowered my frequency of ejaculations to between 1 to 3 a month because it is easier to manage this way, I have used this pre-pack in my "testing" phase at up to once a week, and it was still effective. As you yourself have been doing, I am not taking any of the supplements of my pEp on a dally basis, only before E.  If I have some symptoms after E, even if I took my pre-pack, I use the supplements I have detailed in the first post of this thread on a as needed basis ( those include many of the supplements already contained in my pEp).

Instead of taking supplements on a daily basis in order to feel better, I rely on what I have mentioned to stay healthy and maintain my well-being and stamina:  healthy nutrition, exercise, stress and anxiety management through yoga and meditation, psychotherapy, and of course, having fun and connecting with people I appreciate.  I do add spices like curcumin and black pepper in my food, but not in the amount found in a capsule.  I also use supplements before and after sport, but not the same as for POIS.  For sports, I take essentially electrolytes ( Mg, K, Na), and antioxidants.


Let me know after a certain period of time if your pre-pack is still effective for you.

Working from this version, you may find one or two more components to get to 90% or 100% relief.  I wish you so.


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Prancer

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Good tips G-man and Quantum.

So far Quantum, that's what has worked the best in my case. I'm talking about stress management, good diet/nutrition (about to try the gluten-free diet like GLC mentioned), exercise, sleep, and yes, socializing with and being around the people that I really like also helps to take my mind off the symptoms and make me feel a lot better.
Symptoms (mostly cognitive): brain fog/difficulty thinking, lack of motivation, fatigue, trouble finding the right words, racing thoughts, possible OCD, anxiety, social withdrawal, extreme frustration and irritability, general discomfort.

Born in 1989, and symptoms since I was 14.

Quantum

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Good tips G-man and Quantum.

So far Quantum, that's what has worked the best in my case. I'm talking about stress management, good diet/nutrition (about to try the gluten-free diet like GLC mentioned), exercise, sleep, and yes, socializing with and being around the people that I really like also helps to take my mind off the symptoms and make me feel a lot better.

Hi Prancer,

I totally agree, connecting with people we appreciate is part of my POIS prevention strategy, too.  The opposite, that is, avoiding extended contact with people I do not go along very well is also important in preserving my well-being, and keep my baseline anxiety at a low level.   It may sound like a cliché, but love, manifested as appreciation, compassion, humor, joy, forgiveness, or anything similar,  is the most potent medication for any illness, in my own experience.

As an update on my pre-pack use ( the one I have described in this thread), I have used it this week again, the exact same mix, and had a 100% success - no POIS, and I played badminton that same day and same energy as usual.  This has been my first release in a month, so that too may have been been a factor in the fact that I had no symptoms at all, but again, as I have said, severity of my symptoms are not always the same, and I do not always know why.  However, not having symptoms at all would be very, very rare before, like once in 2 years, and POIS could have been back the next time with very severe symptoms and last for days.  So, now, having repeatedly 80% to 100% relief cannot be attributed to chance only, but to my overall prevention method, including my pre-pack, diet, exercise, stress management, and contacts with loved ones.

I wish you a lot of good time with the people you appreciate, Prancer !

 


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VagSmasher

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After many years with POIS ( 37 years now),  I  have found things that helps me decrease the severity of my symptoms.  Then, in last November  (2014) , I have found this forum.  After many months of testing the new information I have found on this forum,  I have refined and added to my prevention and control method, and have currently a 80% to 100% rate of success.  So here is what I do, and it works for me safely.

Before describing the combination of supplements I take before release, which is a key in my higher rate of success,  I cannot left untold the following parts of my overall POIS control method, because without these, I do not think the supplements alone would bring me as much relief as they currently do:

Healthy diet:   about 15 years ago, I have started to eat a more healthy diet.  It has been an on-going process.  Now, I may have an ultra-healthy diet.  Not a cure in itself, but it sure has help reduced the fatigue and the severity of the POIS symptoms I used to have.  So, no refined sugars, no artificial flavor or color, no preservatives, no MSG, no aspartame, no suspect ingredients ( yes I read all the food labels), no fruit juices ( just whole fruits), no HFCS, no milk ( I can eat cheese, but milk causes tons of mucus production in my sinuses and in my bowels, I have replaced it by soy drink in my morning organic cereals ),.....  I have introduced organic food, healthy spices, healthy veggies, veal liver, dried fruits and nuts, organic wheat grass juice, omega-3, sources of tryptophan, lots of source water, etc... I take probiotics with Lactobacillus and Bifidus strains.  All that have taken care of any bowel inflammation problems I had, which, in my opinion, worsen POIS ( I already have written about this)  Also,  I have reduced quantities I eat by half, at least ( and did not have lost a pound).  I am not a diet-freak:  I eat meat, fish, eggs, dark chocolate, I sometime drink wine, and I do not eat tofu at all – it's tasteless!  I eat at the restaurant with friends – it's just like, I won't order French fries and will chose something healthier on the menu.

Regular exercise:   a good sweat at least two times a week ( my preference are badminton and tennis in double – the social/team aspect is a real bonus for me).  Exercise is good for the brain and for the body.   On the second day of POIS, if I have residual symptoms, they will be gone after exercise.

Abstaining from release as much as possible:   my prevention method is based on one or two ejaculations a month, and seems to also work at once a week  ( I do not think it would work for me with multiple ejaculations in the same week).  It would take me 5 to 8 weeks without ejaculation, approx., before I may have a NE, so with one or two releases a month, I usually do not have NE.  That way, I can manage at what time I will have a release ( timing is important , as you all know!), and will be able to have taken my pre-pack before. Obviously, with my wife, my 2 kids, my business, my friends, I have much to enjoy in life, and I have not much time to devote to “POIS life suspensions”, waiting to get my life back, so I have E the less oten possible. Furthermore, I am now 50 y/o, and sex has not the same importance for me now.   Of course, in a relationship for 28 years ( yes guys, it is possible, even with POIS), it is important to keep an active sexual life, and I have done so, through the  years. I have managed to develop some useful strategies ( like not every relation have to end with me having a release, etc...), and found a long time ago that magnesium and green tea were helping me with POIS, so I have managed to survive...hehe...

Psychotherapy: anxiety from any sources adds up.  My childhood has left me with a tendency for anxiety ( you can call it a general anxiety disorder), and I had to live with anxiety way before POIS.  POIS will worsen my anxiety level a lot, whatever it is at the moment.  After 8 years of psychotherapy, my regular anxiety level is now low.  I'd rather raise from 1 to 3, than raise from 7 to 10, which was very detrimental to me and to those around me.   The anxiety from POIS is not “all in my head” of course, but a part of it is/was.  I have to be careful and keep my baseline anxiety as low as possible.

Daily yoga and meditation: also help to keep my baseline anxiety level as low as possible.  Again, my main POIS symptoms, apart from fatigue and hypotension, are mostly emotional:  anxiety, Irritability, mood swings, dysphoria, social phobia, lack of motivation, low self esteem, and the like.  Daily yoga and meditation have been of great help in staying centered and calm.

Now, here is the composition of what I call my “pre-ejaculation pack”, or pEp,  which are the supplements I take before release in order to prevent my POIS symptoms. This is my current version, and every elements is there for a reason ( written in brackets ). You will notice I like low and safe doses of several things, instead of high doses of of a few things, so what I take are safe doses:

1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy )
1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, GABA agonist )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase , NMDAR blocker )
2 x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2 x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1 x Lycopene  5mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia )

If I have time to, I swallow the 11 pieces of my pack with « rosemary water », that is, a glass of water with one drop of rosemary essential oil in it ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also is a GABA agonist ).

For my pre-pack to be effective, I have to take it at least 15 minutes before release, and best if 30 to 60 minutes before.  But not always possible, in a relationship... when things happen spontaneously, I take my pEp just at the beginning, and since I have become, with time, better than a taoist monk at delaying release, it is no big deal for me to make it last 15 to 20 minutes, so the active ingredients have time to make it to my blood stream and everywhere in my body.  Obviously, since there is many different supplements in my pEp, I always have one pack prepared in advance at my bedside, along with some water.  If I am not disciplined and take it after release, even if only 2 to 10 minutes after, the prevention and control is far less effective  ( better than nothing, but not impressive and very disappointing when I have known better relief).


Now, a short explanation about why I have chosen these particular supplements.

Of course, it is tailored to my own symptoms.  For example, I have low blood pressure as one of my main symptoms, so green tea extract helps with that.
 
Blocking the NMDA receptors is good to lower anxiety level and for other psychological symptoms, so I have put a few in there  ( Mg have been in fact the first effective tool I have found against my POIS , 15 to 20 years ago).  NMDA receptors blockers in general seems to be good for me.  As a side note, taurine is, among tother things, a NMDA receptors blocker, and I read some members had good results with it ( I think about B_jim, in particular).  It has a good effect for me too, as taurine helps with anxiety, but I have it in powder, so I did not include it in my pEp for practical reasons.  I don't know if the effectiveness of taurine, magnesium, L-theanine, zinc, or the lignam in flaxseed oil, is related to their NMDA receptor blocking properties, but they are all beneficial for my POIS.  Anyway, NMDAR blockers are known for their neuroprotective properties against excitototicity, and I believe there is excitotoxicity involved in POIS pathophysiology ( in particular, I think, from quinolinic acid, as I have mentionned before).   I have read that some POIS sufferers had good results with tramadol, a potent NMDAR blocker, but I didn't try it, I have chosen not to treat myself with prescription drugs, since I can have good results with natural products and OTC products.

GABA agonists are good for anxiety, so the rosmarinic acid in rosemary, turmeric and other spices and  herbs like lemon balm, marjorem, basilic, oregano, are good for me

IDO and TDO inhibitors are good to protect the brain from the change in tryptophan metabolic pathways that I think may be in cause in POIS.  It works best for me if I use at least one IDO inhibitor with one TDO inhibitor, to block both metabolic ways by which kynurenine is produced ( this may be not the exact scientific reason why TDO inhibitors and IDO inhibitors works for my POIS, but what is sure is that they do help.  However, the kynurenine pathways implication has been scientifically proven in other illnesses, like depression, Huntington disease, and in some auto-immune diseases, so this is not folklore )

Serotonin is good for calm, well-being, socialization, and it also helps raise blood pressure. So 5-HTP, a direct serotonin precursor,  is good for me, in low dose.

Antioxidants are useful in blocking the formation of pro-inflamatory cytokines, from the hypersensitivity/allergy reactions I think are part of POIS physiopathology ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 for more details about this) .  So, my hypothesis is that by using a combination of various antioxidants, it blocks many different paths of production of those cytokines, and reduce the "cytokine storm" of the hypersensitivity reactions following release.  Antioxidants all have some anti-inflammatory properties.  By blocking different parts of the auto-immune reaction, they have specific effects.  Some are known, like the known postive effects of lycopene on prostate inflammation, or the known anti-allergic prorperties of quercetin and bromelain.  In my own experience, anti-oxidants have a positive effect on my energy level, and on my overall health.




My POIS severity is not always the same, and I do not know why.  Sometime, when POIS is harsher, my pre-pack is not enough to get 100% prevention and relief ( that is why I say that I have from 80% to 100% relief with my method).  If there are some POIS symptoms even if I have taken my pre-pack , I will take some other supplements every 3 to 4 hours as needed.  I monitor my blood pressure, and I also have ways to estimate my level of fatigue and level of anxiety and irritability, so I can very accurately determine how relieved I am.

For low blood pressure: Currently, I have no more low blood pressure problems if I take my pre-pack correctly.  However, If I notice after release that my BP is becoming borderline low ( which is for me, something like 107/68), I take some rosemary or some green tea extract, or sometime another 25mg of 5-HTP with some green tea extract.  Having no more hypotension and extreme fatigue is in itself a great, great success for me in POIS control, and can be accounted as a 50% relief at least.  Hypotension has been causing me a loooooot of fatigue, lightheadness, intolerance to exercise, cold sweat, depressive feelings,  sense of powerlessness, trouble going through my day at work, and so on ….

For residual fatigue : even if I have no hypotension ( low blood pressure), I can sometime feel a certain level of fatigue, even if I have taken my pEp (pre-pack). I then take one or two of the following, at moderate dose, which are essentially antioxidants and or IDO or TDO inhibitors:  ginkgo biloba, vitamin C, grape seed extract, milk thistle,  Vitalux\AREDS blend of antioxydants (cheap and easily found in pharmacies as they are used as eye vitamins, against age-related macular degeneration - ARMD ),  lycopene, green tea extract, Moducare, peppered turmeric, or other good antioxidants blend, like SuperVision, from Webber Naturals.

For residual anxiety, irritability, and other emotional symptoms:   I will add some omega-3, some flaxseed oil, some l-theanine, some other magnesium, or other NMDAR antagonists, like taurine and  zinc .   If it is near bedtime, I can use Relora or Passionflower, but not during the day, they cause me too much drowsiness.

My POIS used to last 2 to 3 days.  Now, with my current method of prevention and control,  I sometime have no POIS at all.  Sometime I have to take some supplements 1 or 2 hours after release. and sometime I may have to take a few supplements again up to 8 to 12 hours after release, when the effect of my pre-pack seems to fade away a bit, But rarely now do I need to take some supplements the day after. 

I know that what works for me won't necessarily works for another one.  But I hope the success I have with these supplements and this overall method will helps inspire and motivate others to build a similar overall approach for themselves.  Take note that it took me quite some time, I didn't get to 80% -100% success quickly.  Some of the elements of my pre-pack are known beneficial to me for over 10 to 15 years, like magnesium, green tea extract and rosemary essential oil.  Some other are more recent, and some came only since I have found this forum.  The idea is that I have found some core components that I know for sure are beneficial for me, then I have kept them at the same low to moderate dosage, and slowly have added other supplements one by one, not changing everything each time, or I will have never succeeded in knowing what works or not for me.  I have a file of every pre-pack versions I have used in the last year, what time before release I have taken it, and what results I got  ( Blood pressure monitoring, symptoms after 1 hour, after 2 hours, after 4 hours, ….)  so it has helped me keep a rational and scientific approach in developing my pre-pack. 

Considering the nature of this post, I have to add this disclaimer: you are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Thank you

Quantum


Please send me a link to the study that shows curcumin is a GABA agonist...

Thank you

Vag
Symptoms: Brain Fog, Frustration, stuffed nose, anger, anxiety, and feel zoned out.

Quantum

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Please send me a link to the study that shows curcumin is a GABA agonist...

Thank you

Vag

Hi VagSmasher,

I think you refer to these parts of my post :

« 1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, GABA agonist ) »

and

« GABA agonists are good for anxiety, so the rosmarinic acid in rosemary, turmeric and other spices and  herbs like lemon balm, marjoram, basil, oregano, are good for me »

You are completely right, Vag, curcumin has not been shown to have – or not – an effect on the GABAergic system – the mechanism of its anxiolytic properties are not clearly known yet.  I have mistakenly put curcuma/turmeric in my list of spices containing rosmarinic acid, sorry for that, as curcuma is not a source of rosmarinic acid ( but all the other spices in my list are).  Rosmarinic acid has gabaergic properties, as it inhibits an enzyme that metabolizing GABA ( for those interested by the details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosmarinic_acid#Biochemical_activities .  )

For some studies trying to find the mechanism of curcuma anxiolytic properties, see :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24721902
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20633542
http://www.ajbrui.net/ojs/index.php/ajbr/article/view/337

The prime reason I have chosen to include curcumin in my prevention pre-pack was for its IDO inhibitor properties.  The anxiolytic effect is also good for me, too.  I will correct my original post from
« 1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, GABA agonist ) »
to
« 1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anxiolytic ) » ,
and will remove turmeric from the spices list containing rosmarinic acid.

I have no proof that it is the IDO inhibitor properties of curcumin and rosmarinic acid that are really beneficial for my POIS.  The inhibition of the kynurenine pathways by inhibiting IDO and TDO has been studied and proven useful in other conditions.  However, there is not a lot of research done on POIS, the only thing I can be sure of is my empirical success using the method described in the first post of this thread, and part of this success came with the use of IDO and TDO inhibitors, among other things.

Thanks, Vag, for pointing this out to me.  I try to keep my posts as scientifically accurate as possible - I think it is important if we want to make valuable steps toward solving the POIS puzzle.


 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 10:18:35 PM by Quantum »
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G-man

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Quantum,
What are your thoughts about the cause of POIS being some kind of channelopathy?
30 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

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Quantum,
What are your thoughts about the cause of POIS being some kind of channelopathy?

Hi G-man,

Channelopathies is a relatively new field of research, and POIS is not weel known neither, so it is very hard to say.  However, I was very interested about hypokaliemic periodic paralysis when I first heard about it (  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypokalemic_periodic_paralysis ), because there are some similarities with POIS, in particular the sudden onset, and then the spontaneous recovery after a certain time, from a few hours to a few days.  But it took many years to find out the cause of HPP, which was though to be hysterical in nature before the potassium channel problem has been discovered.

My prevention method relies more on controlling my symptoms, and also controlling the hypersensitivity/allergy reactions, and neurotoxicity I think are involved in the pathophysiology of POIS.  To the best of my current knowledge, there seems to be pro-inflammatory cytokines productions, causing many symptoms, and in particular, kynurenine toxic products affecting the brain, and that is why I think TDO and IDO inhibitors are effective in my case ( for those who would like more details about this last part, I have written about it in details elsewhere on this forum, like at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 ).

I don't know if there is a thread yet about channelopathies and POIS, but it could be interesting to start one if you have found interesting information, G-man.
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G-man

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I touched on channelopathies briefly here, but did not draw any parallels with POIS
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1457.0

You mention pro-inflammatory cytokine production being a likely cause of our symptoms. I'm curious to find out what these cytokines are targeting in our body and what is triggering their production. I was wondering if these cytokines are possibly targeting an ion channel or one of their associated proteins. Or if the cytokines could be targeting a specific hormone, neurotransmitter, or their respective receptors.
30 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

Quantum

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I have mentioned in my initial post in this thread that there is a healthy diet part in my method of prevention and control of my POIS.  I have started this many years ago, and it is still on going.  Recently, I have added carrageenan to my "banned" list of food ingredients.  I have discovered lately that this thickening agent may cause some inflammation and problems in the gastrointestinal tract ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan#Health_research )

I have noticed it was part of the ingredients of the organic soy beverage I have been using every day for years ( the SoNice brand).  So, as part of my constant optimization "program", I have switched to another organic soy beverage brand ( Natur-a) that is not using carrageenan, but rather the 100% safe xanthan gum as a thickening agent. It tastes as good as the previous one - the vanilla one is my favorite with cereals, and chocolate is great to simply drink :) 

I have written an e-mail to the company producing the soy beverage I used to buy.  They answered that, even if carrageenan is approved by the current health authorities, they are aware that people who take their health seriously prefer formulas without this ingredients, so they intend to develop a new formula without it, in the future.  The reply I have received also brought to my attention that their new almond beverage line has no carrageenan in it  ( a proof that I wasn't the first to write to them about carrageenan, since organic soy beverage buyers are usually very health conscious).

There is no clear danger proven yet from carrageenan, but my decision-making criteria in healthy food is clear: if there is a safe alternative, better avoid the dubious ingredient.  As the saying goes, there is no smoke without fire  (In French, we say "Il n'y a pas de fumée sans feu" )

This is also interesting to note that a food being organic do not automatically means that it is perfect for your health. You still have to read the label and look thoroughly to all of the ingredients in it. 

Also, I have chosen to change my morning organic cereals for a gluten free product from the same organic brand I have been buying from for years.  I never had any noticeable symptoms from gluten-containing food, and I am not going into a total gluten-free diet, but I felt like it would be a good move to reduce my daily gluten intake, and my main source of it was my morning cereals.  It could be a little additional notch at reducing overall inflammatory reactions in my body.   And, since I tend to eat a lot of what works for me, and stick with it, I have to make sure that what I include in my daily safe list is really healthy for me.

It has been only a few weeks since I have made these changes, and they are not major changes.  I feel as good as lately  and may feel the change only in the long run.  One thing is sure, it cannot be harmful to have included healthier food than before in my daily diet. 


« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 08:54:29 PM by Quantum »
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Quantum

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I have just found out that quercetin has been proven efficient in reducing chronic prostatitis symptoms  ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10604689 ).  I didn't know it has an affinity for the prostate. I have included it in my pre-E pack because of its good effect on reducing allergy symptoms and inflammation in general.  It is good news that it also has some specificity for the prostate, it is another good reason for it to be effective against POIS symptoms.

The preparation of quercetin I use contains bromelain, which enhance the absorption of quercetin.  The bioavailability of quercetin is low, which means that, naturally, only a small fraction of the ingested dose will make it into your blood flow.  With bromelain, the absorbed fraction is greater.   it is for the same reason that the piperin of black pepper is used with turmeric in order to boost curcumin absorption.
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Quantum

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Considering the new notions I have learned about lately, I have updated the "Daily yoga and meditation" part of my original post in this thread as follows:

( P.S. 2016-01:  after reading about the Polyvagal Theory, about Heart Rate Variability ( HRV ), and also about the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, it has become clear to me that yoga and meditation are also a good way to reduce inflammation because they raise the vagal nerve activity, which in turn reduces the inflammation reactions in the body through the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, involving the spleen and the immune cells in it - see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2200.msg17995#msg17995 for details.  Other ways to raise Heart Rate Variability, like spending time with loved ones, is also as good ! )
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Quantum

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Hi everyone, just a short update.  After 16 months, my pre-pack still brings me relief on a consistent basis.  Of course, I am not cured of POIS, but I didn't have a full blast POIS for 16 months, now.  The worst since December 2014 is maybe 20%, which is nothing compare to what I have been through in the 36 years before that !  And, it happens quite often that I have no symptoms at all :)

Also, I am conscious that I am getting older, at 51, so logically, POIS should take a heavier toll on me now.  I am still limiting my number of release, but in a relationship, total abstinence is not an option.  So, I am very happy now to be able to have 2 to 4 releases a month without becoming dysfunctional for a few days each time.



« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 08:33:19 PM by Quantum »
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