Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[Starsky]

If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/

I had the statement in my instruction that 500mg is max one-time dose for these XN tablets. I think you have either different XN tablets or you have slow release pills.

Victor

Retardtabletten, i think they mean slow release. Victor did you have sensitive liver before taking XN injections or just now?

[jivetalk]

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

[Starsky]

Nicotinic acid vs. XN


"The treatment effect of nicotinic acid and xanthinol nicotinate on human memory was compared with placebo in 96 healthy subjects. Forty-three subjects were young (35-45 years), 30 subjects middle aged (55-65 years) and 23 subjects were old aged (75-85 years). Pre- and post-treatment scores were measured on a battery of memory tasks, covering sensory register, short-term memory and long-term memory. The treatment regime was 1 dragee t.i.d. for 8 weeks. The administration of xanthinol nicotinate (500 mg, containing 141.7 mg nicotinic acid), nicotinic acid (141.7 mg) and placebo (lactose) was double-blind. Pre- and post-treatment scores were analysed by means of a multivariate covariance technique, the pre-treatment score serving as covariate. Nicotinic acid treatment resulted in improvement of sensory register and short-term memory, while xanthinol nicotinate improved sensory register, short-term memory and long-term memory. In comparison with placebo, both active compounds yielded improvements of 10-40%, depending on type of task. Treatment effects of nicotinic acid were predominantly found in the young and middle-aged, whereas treatment effects of xanthinol nicotinate were predominantly found in the old. These results are interpreted by the supposed activity of nicotinic acid at the cell membrane, improving neuronal transmission, and of xanthinol nicotinate inside the cell, enhancing cell metabolism and oxygen supply in the brain. "

[Daveman]

Last night (at about 3AM, because I'm in day 2 today) I was remembering that when I was younger (about 30 or so), I would take Niacin and Vitamin C before going out for a big party where I knew I would be drinking and getting a good hangover, and then I'd take one maybe once during and before going to bed.

This reduced my hangovers dramatically. It would always surprise me! I can't say they were stopped, but were down to maybe 20% of what it would have been. This was a consistent trick/cure.

So it reminds me a lot of all of this. As I was waking up this morning as a matter of fact, I felt as though I could just as easily be hung-over rather than entering POIS day 2. And it clicked. Is there something in common?

Alcohol also casues histamine release, I think because the system needs to get rid of the toxins caused by the alcohol assimilation. Does the Niacin raise the histamine release barrier or something. Can anybody think of some other mechanism?

I guess I'll have to look on internet to see if they say anything about this "hangover cure".

[Daveman]

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

Jivetalk,

There are other providers of this compund? How expensive is it and how hard is it to get?

We can always test it. Sometime the derivitives are better for "the intended use" but might not be better for POIS. At this stage, I tink we should be open to testing of a larger range, but should be careful not to mix the tests or confuse the influence of one type over the effects of another.

I've been thinking of setting up some labs here to better control all the various tests.

We should have one lab to test XN, another to test Nicotinic Acid, amybe another to test a derivitive similar to this mentioned here. But we should try to resist mixing and change between test types.

If we have interested parties and individuals who will volunteer for more controlled tests of individual elements, let me know and I start to set up the space.

[Habibou]

Yes, I try Nicobion (Niacin) 500mg and try to get it before the O. The matter is I got too many NE those last days so i cant see the effect while i took it before the O ! But it is clear I deleted some symptoms with Niacin.

I try to understand the mechanism of the "oral type" and the "injection type on the internet, it is fascinating! I will update when i can translate it.

[Guthrie]

Hi all,

I also had a chance to test Niacin on myself.  On Thursday, I took 300 mg of Niacin on a mostly empty stomach, about 40 minutes before O.  The 'flush' came on pretty quickly (within 5 minutes or so); it was definitely quite noticeable and lasted about an hour--continuing for about 20 minutes after the O.

Results:
The O was at 6:00 pm.  In the hour or so immediately following the O, I felt better than usual.  I didn't feel the usual initial feelings of POIS 'creeping up.'  So that was a positive start.  However, later in the evening, I was feeling a bit out of it, so I began to think that the niacin hadn't prevented POIS.

However, when I woke up the next morning (Friday), I found that I did NOT have the usual POIS brainfog and emotional/cognitive fatigue.  I would say that the POIS feelings were only at about 15-20% of their usual.  It was certainly a noticeable difference, so perhaps the niacin was effective!  Moreover, the 15-20% lasted throughout the whole day.

So, I would so that the initial experiment was a success.  I'm not sure what accounted for the less-good feelings of the later evening of Day 0, but Day 1 was certainly a big improvement.   Did the niacin simply shorten the POIS episode, so that it mostly ended while I slept on Thursday night?  Or perhaps it prevented POIS entirely, while the problems of the Day 0 evening were not POIS, but a reaction to the niacin.

In any case, I will need to test it again.  Perhaps I should use a little less niacin, since a one-hour flush seems a bit long.  But, it will be good to see if the overall effect is replicable, and if so, how the dosage affects things, and also whether being 'in flush' right at the moment of O makes a difference.

[Daveman]

Guthrie,

In my post about the hangover prevention http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg2055#msg2055, it was similar in that I still had a hangover, but it was 15 to 20% of what it should have been, like you say here with your first test.

It would ALWAYS astound me, and it ALWAYS worked. It felt as though it was there in the background being "held back", or like it was being experienced through some kind of "filter".

I hope to buy some Niacin shortly too. This is exciting!

[B_Daniel]

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

NADH looks to be a nicotinamide.  The amide version of niacin/ nicotinic acid does not cause flushing, and therefor may not help us.  (I'm not saying it's not worth a try, I just wanted to point this out)

from wikipedia...
Nicotinamide, also known as niacinamide and nicotinic acid amide, is the amide of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3 / niacin).. Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacologic and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing

[B_Daniel]

Right now I'm trying to determine minimal doses and effect on my POIS of different XN and different Niacin acid forms (oral / injectable), to provide other people with the direction for doing their own experiments. And when we have a few people with some results we can build statistics. Based on this statistics we can refine our hypothesis and continue doing more informative experiments.

Victor

I think I speak for many of us here when I thank you, Victor, for trying all these different combinations and dosages of Niacin Acid and XN pills for us. 

You've already got a treatment that works for you through the XN injections, but you're putting yourself through POIS to help the rest of us, who can't get access to the XN injections.  It's greatly appreciated!  You're clearly a stand-up guy! 

[B_Daniel]

... So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly.  Took one 150mg  xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro....

I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.

Silverandcol - I'm confused about this as well.  The Xan-Pro (XN) that you bought comes in 150mg tablets.  So are you saying you took (1) Xan-Pro tablet AND also (1) 42mg Niacin pill???

[B_Daniel]

... Unfortunately you don't have XN in tablets easily available in USA and Europe, but from whatever reason I thought that you have.

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....

International Antiaging Systems (IAS) or (Antiaging-systems.com) ships XN pills via a supplement named Xan-Pro.  It costs $20 for a 50 pill bottle and can be shipped world-wide.  I've ordered countless items on this website over the last 5 years and have never had a problem.  A couple of us have even ordered the Xan-Pro from IAS and have already gotten it.  So I don't think it's a stretch to say that XN is easily available!  I ordered some last week and I got it to my place in California within 7 days- Awesome!

[jivetalk]

... Unfortunately you don't have XN in tablets easily available in USA and Europe, but from whatever reason I thought that you have.

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....

International Antiaging Systems (IAS) or (Antiaging-systems.com) ships XN pills via a supplement named Xan-Pro.  It costs $20 for a 50 pill bottle and can be shipped world-wide.  I've ordered countless items on this website over the last 5 years and have never had a problem.  A couple of us have even ordered the Xan-Pro from IAS and have already gotten it.  So I don't think it's a stretch to say that XN is easily available!  I ordered some last week and I got it to my place in California within 7 days- Awesome!

Hi B_Daniel,

This is excellent. If the XN  pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.

[jivetalk]

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

Jivetalk,

There are other providers of this compund? How expensive is it and how hard is it to get?

We can always test it. Sometime the derivitives are better for "the intended use" but might not be better for POIS. At this stage, I tink we should be open to testing of a larger range, but should be careful not to mix the tests or confuse the influence of one type over the effects of another.

I've been thinking of setting up some labs here to better control all the various tests.

We should have one lab to test XN, another to test Nicotinic Acid, amybe another to test a derivitive similar to this mentioned here. But we should try to resist mixing and change between test types.

If we have interested parties and individuals who will volunteer for more controlled tests of individual elements, let me know and I start to set up the space.

I think the NADH is quite easily available based on the internet searches I've done - It does look quite expensive though in comparson to Niacin or XN, and comes in much lower doses 5 or 10 mg. Wether it is effective for POIS or not is yet to be seen. As mentioned, I'm going to try XN after I've done a series Niacin tests to see how I go......

It would be interesting though to see if something like NADH does work, because it has been used to treat Chronic Fatigue and Short Term Memory loss etc...It could be an alternative for those with Liver problems or those with strong side effects.
 
In regards to tests, I'm in Australia, so I won't be able to physically attend - But of course happy to hear your ideas and help in any way.

[jivetalk]

Hi all,

I also had a chance to test Niacin on myself.  On Thursday, I took 300 mg of Niacin on a mostly empty stomach, about 40 minutes before O.  The 'flush' came on pretty quickly (within 5 minutes or so); it was definitely quite noticeable and lasted about an hour--continuing for about 20 minutes after the O.

Results:
The O was at 6:00 pm.  In the hour or so immediately following the O, I felt better than usual.  I didn't feel the usual initial feelings of POIS 'creeping up.'  So that was a positive start.  However, later in the evening, I was feeling a bit out of it, so I began to think that the niacin hadn't prevented POIS.

However, when I woke up the next morning (Friday), I found that I did NOT have the usual POIS brainfog and emotional/cognitive fatigue.  I would say that the POIS feelings were only at about 15-20% of their usual.  It was certainly a noticeable difference, so perhaps the niacin was effective!  Moreover, the 15-20% lasted throughout the whole day.

So, I would so that the initial experiment was a success.  I'm not sure what accounted for the less-good feelings of the later evening of Day 0, but Day 1 was certainly a big improvement.   Did the niacin simply shorten the POIS episode, so that it mostly ended while I slept on Thursday night?  Or perhaps it prevented POIS entirely, while the problems of the Day 0 evening were not POIS, but a reaction to the niacin.

In any case, I will need to test it again.  Perhaps I should use a little less niacin, since a one-hour flush seems a bit long.  But, it will be good to see if the overall effect is replicable, and if so, how the dosage affects things, and also whether being 'in flush' right at the moment of O makes a difference.

Thank you very much for your report Guthrie. The more reports we get from members the more evidence we have that this is real. Please keep us posted on our subsequent tests.

Note: I too felt a bit of POIS on the subsequent day. Taking another single Niacin Pill seemed to help me out.

[jivetalk]

Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

NADH looks to be a nicotinamide.  The amide version of niacin/ nicotinic acid does not cause flushing, and therefor may not help us.  (I'm not saying it's not worth a try, I just wanted to point this out)

from wikipedia...
Nicotinamide, also known as niacinamide and nicotinic acid amide, is the amide of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3 / niacin).. Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacologic and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing

Hi B_Daniel,

I think they are slightly different somehow, but you may be right...I'm only basing this on the fact that NADH is marketed separately from - Niacidimide.
In Any case, even though you purchased the Niacidimide, did you try that for POIS at all?

[silverandcol]

... So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly.  Took one 150mg  xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro....

I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.

Silverandcol - I'm confused about this as well.  The Xan-Pro (XN) that you bought comes in 150mg tablets.  So are you saying you took (1) Xan-Pro tablet AND also (1) 42mg Niacin pill???

O sorry I just took one pill, I was simply listing the ingredients lol.

[B_Daniel]

Hi B_Daniel,

This is excellent. If the XN  pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.

I need to experiment more so that I have some actual evidence to bestow upon the group.  My short update so far though is that I tried my Xan-Pro (XN) for the first time last night.  I took 2 (150mg) tablets.  Problem was I essentially took the pills right after the O.  Today I feel like crap, with 75%+ POIS.  I've done nothing all day but mess around online and watch TV.  What a way to live my life.  Next time I can assure you I'll be taking the XanPro far in advance of the O - and hopefully I'll have more promising results to share.

[B_Daniel]

Hi B_Daniel,

I think they are slightly different somehow, but you may be right...I'm only basing this on the fact that NADH is marketed separately from - Niacidimide.
In Any case, even though you purchased the Niacidimide, did you try that for POIS at all?

I actually didn't purchase the niacidimide, I don't know why I wrote that.  I purchased the inositol hexanicotinate.  It comes in 500mg pill sizes, and I took 2, then had the O.  I felt pretty good the next day.  But I put the qualifier here that it had been over a week since my O prior to that, and sometimes my POIS is naturally very minor in that situation.  I will experiment with that again... but only after another 2 experimentations with the XanPro....    Now I see why daveman recommends we have different groups of ppl try diff variations of Niacin - Not 1 person try all 3!  My tests are never clean bc of it!

[silverandcol]

Hi B_Daniel,

This is excellent. If the XN  pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.

I need to experiment more so that I have some actual evidence to bestow upon the group.  My short update so far though is that I tried my Xan-Pro (XN) for the first time last night.  I took 2 (150mg) tablets.  Problem was I essentially took the pills right after the O.  Today I feel like crap, with 75%+ POIS.  I've done nothing all day but mess around online and watch TV.  What a way to live my life.  Next time I can assure you I'll be taking the XanPro far in advance of the O - and hopefully I'll have more promising results to share.

Yeh, I made that mistake twice, sometimes, I just can't help it though =(.  Taking after is definitely way less effective.  I do have the theory though that if you are already in POIS, you can remove it by taking xan-pro the next day right before ejaculation.  Not sure why that would work but I have a feeling it would clear away the previous POIS by giving you a flushed orgasm.