Author Topic: 1.5 months of substantial POIS improvement using Deplin (high-dose methylfolate)  (Read 1214 times)

LookingForACure

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Hi all, it's been a little while since I've been active on this forum but I am excited to inform all of you that I have made significant progress in my battle against POIS after beginning to use the anti-depressant medical food Deplin (AKA methylfolate or vitamin B-9). First to give some background on my case, I've suffered since I started masturbating around age 13, and my symptoms are primarily cognitive. Specifically, in the days following orgasm, I experience the following:
  • Issues with socialization. I feel awkward, slow, and like social situations do not come naturally to me, despite being relatively charismatic when I'm healthy
  • Impaired learning ability
  • Impaired problem solving ability
  • Difficulty grasping concepts
  • Reduced motivation and willpower. For example, I find it unusually difficult to resist both distractions and unhealthy food
It's not entirely clear how long my symptoms last, but I experience substantial improvement between days 4 and 6. As time has went on, I also feel as if I've developed other triggers. Some of these are known (such as exercise and certain types of food), while others are not. For example, I notice that often even after a few weeks of abstinence I will randomly experience POIS symptoms. My hypothesis is that this may have to do with urinary semen release, but I am not totally sure. I also feel that I rarely reach a truly healthy baseline, with my best days being only "good enough".

I have found a few ways to reduce my symptoms throughout the years:
  • Ironically exercise, which can be a trigger, can also help quite a bit with my social and cognitive symptoms if the intensity is low enough.
  • Adderall, and to a lesser extent caffeine, provide substantial relief to my social symptoms for the duration of the drugs' action. Adderall in some cases is powerful enough for me to feel fully normal socially even on day 1 POIS.
  • A selenium and iodine supplement I took in late 2019 provided substantial improvement to my POIS symptoms and general well-being for 10-14 days. Unfortunately, this effect disappeared and I was not able to replicate it consistently. I think it's unlikely the effect was placebo, as I've tried many supplements with much higher expectations and not experienced the same level of benefit. Unfortunately despite hours of research, I was not able to make sense of the benefits I experienced in relation to POIS.
  • Candibactin AR and BR, two mixed herbal antimicrobial supplements, provided me long-lasting and significant POIS relief for a period of two months at the end of last year. The effect was very powerful and certainly beyond placebo, and has convinced me that my POIS may be at least partially gut-related.

The final thing that has helped me with my symptoms in the past is supplemental methylfolate. I've tried it a number of times, in doses ranging from 400mcg to 5mg per day, but the benefits would attenuate after a few days and disappear after a week almost every time. I decided on a whim to try deplin, a prescription version of methylfolate that comes in doses of 7.5mg or 15mg (I take 15mg). The effect has been transformative. While I do not feel 100% normal, I am able to remain relatively functional even while masturbating daily which is something that I haven't been able to do in the past. If I take a couple days off, I find that I feel even better. I also have noticed that methylfolate has relieved my need to exercise. I used to become extremely cognitively sluggish if I missed more than 3 or 4 days, which was annoying considering that intense exercise could trigger symptoms. All-in-all, it has significantly improved my quality of life and so I'm really excited to share it with you guys. I also have not noticed the effects weaken since I began, which is encouraging.

For those who are interested in trying deplin, you can get it in two ways (note, this does NOT constitute a medical recommendation - do your due diligence before trying anything suggested on this forum!). First, you can talk to a psychiatrist (possibly also a GP?) and ask if they'd be willing to write you a prescription. Deplin is rarely covered by insurance, but can be ordered through the manufacturer for a little less than $60 a month (https://www.deplin.com/brand-direct-health). Second, you can order 15mg supplements on amazon or reputable online seller (example: https://www.amazon.com/MethylPro-L-Methylfolate-15-Strength-Supplement/dp/B0731TW6J4/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=methylfolate+15mg&qid=1628731011&sr=8-8). Unfortunately, supplements are unregulated so it's hard to know exactly what you are getting, but they are more easily available for those with limited medical care of finances.

I'm open to answering any questions anyone might have. Best of luck!


Mushnikk

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"Candibactin AR and BR, two mixed herbal antimicrobial supplements, provided me long-lasting and significant POIS relief for a period of two months at the end of last year. The effect was very powerful and certainly beyond placebo, and has convinced me that my POIS may be at least partially gut-related."

Another case of SIBO/gut dysbioses like John21.

I will report results after my ongoing trial with Candibactin.


LookingForACure

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"Candibactin AR and BR, two mixed herbal antimicrobial supplements, provided me long-lasting and significant POIS relief for a period of two months at the end of last year. The effect was very powerful and certainly beyond placebo, and has convinced me that my POIS may be at least partially gut-related."

Another case of SIBO/gut dysbioses like John21.

I will report results after my ongoing trial with Candibactin.



Yeah I think gut dysbiosis is likely the root for many of us. I should mention though that I did get tested for SIBO and was pretty much negative. My Hydrogen didn't even come close ot the threshold, and I think my methane maxed out at 11 ppm during one timestep. This was enough to be slightly above the threshold (10 ppm), but far lower than the majority of people I see who have significant issues. SIBO tests are also known to have a ton of false positives.

Charles_b

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"Candibactin AR and BR, two mixed herbal antimicrobial supplements, provided me long-lasting and significant POIS relief for a period of two months at the end of last year. The effect was very powerful and certainly beyond placebo, and has convinced me that my POIS may be at least partially gut-related."

Another case of SIBO/gut dysbioses like John21.

I will report results after my ongoing trial with Candibactin.

I tried candibactin in the past year, and the BR (berberine) made me feel like I was going to die (vomiting, horrible pounding headache, increased anxiety).  The same thing happened when I tried Berberine separately another time - My thoughts were either that a.) My liver can’t handle berberine for some reason, or b.) The berberine was really killing something significantly overgrown causing herxing.

I may try it again at a very very low dose, as it seems like it may be doing something at least against pathogens.

Quantum

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Hi all, it's been a little while since I've been active on this forum but I am excited to inform all of you that I have made significant progress in my battle against POIS after beginning to use the anti-depressant medical food Deplin (AKA methylfolate or vitamin B-9). First to give some background on my case, I've suffered since I started masturbating around age 13, and my symptoms are primarily cognitive. Specifically, in the days following orgasm, I experience the following:
  • Issues with socialization. I feel awkward, slow, and like social situations do not come naturally to me, despite being relatively charismatic when I'm healthy
  • Impaired learning ability
  • Impaired problem solving ability
  • Difficulty grasping concepts
  • Reduced motivation and willpower. For example, I find it unusually difficult to resist both distractions and unhealthy food
It's not entirely clear how long my symptoms last, but I experience substantial improvement between days 4 and 6. As time has went on, I also feel as if I've developed other triggers. Some of these are known (such as exercise and certain types of food), while others are not. For example, I notice that often even after a few weeks of abstinence I will randomly experience POIS symptoms. My hypothesis is that this may have to do with urinary semen release, but I am not totally sure. I also feel that I rarely reach a truly healthy baseline, with my best days being only "good enough".

I have found a few ways to reduce my symptoms throughout the years:
  • Ironically exercise, which can be a trigger, can also help quite a bit with my social and cognitive symptoms if the intensity is low enough.
  • Adderall, and to a lesser extent caffeine, provide substantial relief to my social symptoms for the duration of the drugs' action. Adderall in some cases is powerful enough for me to feel fully normal socially even on day 1 POIS.
  • A selenium and iodine supplement I took in late 2019 provided substantial improvement to my POIS symptoms and general well-being for 10-14 days. Unfortunately, this effect disappeared and I was not able to replicate it consistently. I think it's unlikely the effect was placebo, as I've tried many supplements with much higher expectations and not experienced the same level of benefit. Unfortunately despite hours of research, I was not able to make sense of the benefits I experienced in relation to POIS.
  • Candibactin AR and BR, two mixed herbal antimicrobial supplements, provided me long-lasting and significant POIS relief for a period of two months at the end of last year. The effect was very powerful and certainly beyond placebo, and has convinced me that my POIS may be at least partially gut-related.

The final thing that has helped me with my symptoms in the past is supplemental methylfolate. I've tried it a number of times, in doses ranging from 400mcg to 5mg per day, but the benefits would attenuate after a few days and disappear after a week almost every time. I decided on a whim to try deplin, a prescription version of methylfolate that comes in doses of 7.5mg or 15mg (I take 15mg). The effect has been transformative. While I do not feel 100% normal, I am able to remain relatively functional even while masturbating daily which is something that I haven't been able to do in the past. If I take a couple days off, I find that I feel even better. I also have noticed that methylfolate has relieved my need to exercise. I used to become extremely cognitively sluggish if I missed more than 3 or 4 days, which was annoying considering that intense exercise could trigger symptoms. All-in-all, it has significantly improved my quality of life and so I'm really excited to share it with you guys. I also have not noticed the effects weaken since I began, which is encouraging.

For those who are interested in trying deplin, you can get it in two ways (note, this does NOT constitute a medical recommendation - do your due diligence before trying anything suggested on this forum!). First, you can talk to a psychiatrist (possibly also a GP?) and ask if they'd be willing to write you a prescription. Deplin is rarely covered by insurance, but can be ordered through the manufacturer for a little less than $60 a month (https://www.deplin.com/brand-direct-health). Second, you can order 15mg supplements on amazon or reputable online seller (example: https://www.amazon.com/MethylPro-L-Methylfolate-15-Strength-Supplement/dp/B0731TW6J4/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=methylfolate+15mg&qid=1628731011&sr=8-8). Unfortunately, supplements are unregulated so it's hard to know exactly what you are getting, but they are more easily available for those with limited medical care of finances.

I'm open to answering any questions anyone might have. Best of luck!

Hi, LFAC, I am glad you have found a method to control your POIS symptoms !
When this method will have steadily worked for you for about 3 months, let me know - I will add your method in the POIS Types Chart and their method for POIS relief, at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448


About methylfolate, I personally have a major intolerance to it, and I do not know why yet.  In 2016, I tried 400mcg a few times, and I was sick for about 3 days each time  ( nausea, no energy, POIS-like fatigue, etc...).  I tried it again this year in light of my genome results - it is supposed to be beneficial for me - and just only 100mcg, 1/4 of a 400 mcg tablets of 5-methylfolate, and I feel very bad for 1 to 2 days.  Take note that to be sure to avoid the so-called "methyl trap"effect or other side effects of taking methylfolate, I took it with B12, vitamin C, potassium, b6... everything needed... but still got sick from it. So, until I understand why methylfolate has this effect on me, I will not take any other methylfolate supplements.   


However, I have no problem with leafy greens, which contain methylfolate, neither with folic acid supplements ( no side effects).


POIS still holds a lot of mysteries... what cures one POIS sufferer can worsen another!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 08:08:05 AM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Iwillbeatthis

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About methylfolate, I personally have a major intolerance to it, and I do not know why yet.  In 2016, I tried 400mcg a few times, and I was sick for about 3 days each time  ( nausea, no energy, POIS-like fatigue, etc...).  I tried it again this year in light of my genome results - it is supposed to be beneficial for me - and just only 100mcg, 1/4 of a 400 mcg tablets of 5-methylfolate, and I feel very bad for 1 to 2 days.  Take note that to be sure to avoid the so-called "methyl trap"effect or other side effects of taking methylfolate, I took it with B12, vitamin C, potassium, b6... everything needed... but still got sick from it. So, until I understand why methylfolate has this effect on me, I will not take any other methylfolate supplements.   


However, I have no problem with leafy greens, which contain methylfolate, neither with folic acid supplements ( no side effects).


POIS still holds a lot of mysteries... what cures one POIS sufferer can worsen another!

Your reactions to methyl folate sound like detox reactions and many people get the same symptoms when trying methyl folate.

The same thing happened to me I couldn't tolerate methyl folate or folinic acid at all in even small doses it would make my brain feel toxic. If I take Liposomal glutathione with the methyl folate then it makes it work properly with no bad effects. A few drops under the tongue for the liposomal glutathione.

https://www.livingwithmthfr.org/genetic-education/amino-acids/glutathione-gsh
" Always make sure you have supported Glutathione before giving folate. Methionine ? Homocysteine ? CBS ? Cystathionine ? CTH + Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate ? Cysteine + Glutamate ? GCLM + GCLC ? y-GluCys + Glycine ? GSS + ATP ? GSH ? GLRX ? GSSG ? GSR ? GSH"

Also if you are sensitive to methyl vitamins then it is advised to start at tiny microdoses so dilute a tiny dose in water and sip it throughout the day.

"For the B vitamins, there are two rescue supplements you need to have on hand before you start experimenting and you need to start with very low doses and gradually work your way up only if tolerated, or you may be very sorry, like needing a trip to the emergency room sorry. 1000mcg is not a low dose. 1mcg is a low dose."

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/start-low-and-go-slow-1_21_2014-pdf.6300/ - Guide for methylation supplements on how to Start low and Slow

There is no point in trying larger doses of b12 and folate until you have sufficient lithium levels as lithium is required for b12 and folate transport so if you take b12 and folate without lithium it will just deplete you lithium levels faster and make you feel worse. Lithium also balances excess glutamate and regulates dopamine levels.

From Amy Yasko Feel good nutrigenomics

"Assessing lithium and balancing GABA/glutamate would be most important for those that have already been supplementing with 5MTHF and higher doses of B12. Usually adults have a harder time handling the detox that those supports may cause before short cut supports and Glutamate is in control. This is especially helpful for those that are seeing high levels of folate, and or B12 levels in their blood work or those that are seeing a negative reaction supporting with lithium. Lithium helps with B12 transport and those high levels of folate and/or B12 may indicate a transport issue."

While you support methylation with supplements it will raise you glutamate levels as your body detoxes and excretes heavy metals, the only effective way I have found to lower glutamate levels is use the Nerve Calm RNA from Holistic Health Dr my Yaskos website. It also works for POIS brain fog.

Sam E (universal methyl donor) is definitely also needed to make the folate and b12 work for me however 200mg becomes way too harsh for my body after two weeks so I dose with around a quarter of a pill and wrap the rest up in foil and put in a supplement container in my fridge. I also nibble a tiny bit of a b12, folate, p5p lozenge with it. You could use it with folic acid too.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 04:04:48 AM by Iwillbeatthis »

Quantum

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About methylfolate, I personally have a major intolerance to it, and I do not know why yet.  In 2016, I tried 400mcg a few times, and I was sick for about 3 days each time  ( nausea, no energy, POIS-like fatigue, etc...).  I tried it again this year in light of my genome results - it is supposed to be beneficial for me - and just only 100mcg, 1/4 of a 400 mcg tablets of 5-methylfolate, and I feel very bad for 1 to 2 days.  Take note that to be sure to avoid the so-called "methyl trap"effect or other side effects of taking methylfolate, I took it with B12, vitamin C, potassium, b6... everything needed... but still got sick from it. So, until I understand why methylfolate has this effect on me, I will not take any other methylfolate supplements.   


However, I have no problem with leafy greens, which contain methylfolate, neither with folic acid supplements ( no side effects).


POIS still holds a lot of mysteries... what cures one POIS sufferer can worsen another!

Your reactions to methyl folate sound like detox reactions and many people get the same symptoms when trying methyl folate.

The same thing happened to me I couldn't tolerate methyl folate or folinic acid at all in even small doses it would make my brain feel toxic. If I take Liposomal glutathione with the methyl folate then it makes it work properly with no bad effects. A few drops under the tongue for the liposomal glutathione.

https://www.livingwithmthfr.org/genetic-education/amino-acids/glutathione-gsh
" Always make sure you have supported Glutathione before giving folate. Methionine ? Homocysteine ? CBS ? Cystathionine ? CTH + Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate ? Cysteine + Glutamate ? GCLM + GCLC ? y-GluCys + Glycine ? GSS + ATP ? GSH ? GLRX ? GSSG ? GSR ? GSH"

Also if you are sensitive to methyl vitamins then it is advised to start at tiny microdoses so dilute a tiny dose in water and sip it throughout the day.

"For the B vitamins, there are two rescue supplements you need to have on hand before you start experimenting and you need to start with very low doses and gradually work your way up only if tolerated, or you may be very sorry, like needing a trip to the emergency room sorry. 1000mcg is not a low dose. 1mcg is a low dose."

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/start-low-and-go-slow-1_21_2014-pdf.6300/ - Guide for methylation supplements on how to Start low and Slow

There is no point in trying larger doses of b12 and folate until you have sufficient lithium levels as lithium is required for b12 and folate transport so if you take b12 and folate without lithium it will just deplete you lithium levels faster and make you feel worse. Lithium also balances excess glutamate and regulates dopamine levels.

From Amy Yasko Feel good nutrigenomics

"Assessing lithium and balancing GABA/glutamate would be most important for those that have already been supplementing with 5MTHF and higher doses of B12. Usually adults have a harder time handling the detox that those supports may cause before short cut supports and Glutamate is in control. This is especially helpful for those that are seeing high levels of folate, and or B12 levels in their blood work or those that are seeing a negative reaction supporting with lithium. Lithium helps with B12 transport and those high levels of folate and/or B12 may indicate a transport issue."

While you support methylation with supplements it will raise you glutamate levels as your body detoxes and excretes heavy metals, the only effective way I have found to lower glutamate levels is use the Nerve Calm RNA from Holistic Health Dr my Yaskos website. It also works for POIS brain fog.

Sam E (universal methyl donor) is definitely also needed to make the folate and b12 work for me however 200mg becomes way too harsh for my body after two weeks so I dose with around a quarter of a pill and wrap the rest up in foil and put in a supplement container in my fridge. I also nibble a tiny bit of a b12, folate, p5p lozenge with it. You could use it with folic acid too.
Hi, IWBT,
Thanks for having taken the time to give me all this information.

Unfortunately, before trying methylfolate, I was aware of this, the possibility of detox reaction, Herx reaction, methyl trapping, and so on.  I did everything for this to not happen, but I felt bad anyway.  The only thing you mention that I did not do, is taking liposomal glutathione ( I have only a regular capsule of glutathione).   

However, my MTHFR genomic results are not bad.  The only significant SNP is that I am heterozygous for rs1801131 ( A1298C).  This means a 17% less active MTHFR enzyme.  The rest is ok, including the C677T.

Considering that I eat organic veggies for about 5 years now, always including green ones like kale and broccoli, which are natural sources of 5-methylfolate, and that I have had a very, very healthy diet for about 10 to 15 years, I can suppose that my detox through methylation is at least done in major part.  So, considering the kind of reaction I have when taking 5-MTHF, and considering that I miss only 17% of the enzyme activity, I suspect that there is something else at play here. I will wait to know more about this before insisting on taking more 5-MTHF, which I take anyway without any problem through my green organic veggies - on the opposite, my green smoothies make me feel great.

Possibly, the more complete nutritional qualities of my organic veggies bring along some other known or unknown nutrients that are essential for me to use with 5-MTHF.  If this is the case, the supplement of methylfolate alone would fall short, in my case, and cause more harm than good. 

« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 04:05:35 PM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259