Castration, why did it work

[Disaster]

You may find this interesting

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5674119/


The longitudinal effect of ejaculation on seminal vesicle fluid volume and whole-prostate ADC as measured on prostate MRI


Conclusion

The longitudinal effect of ejaculation on SV volume was demonstrated. Significant reductions in SV volume and whole-gland ADC were observed post-ejaculation, supporting a 3-day period of abstinence before prostate MRI.

Key Points

? Seminal vesicle volume significantly reduced 24 h post-ejaculation remaining reduced at day 2

? Seminal vesicle fluid volume significantly increased from day 1 to day 3 post-ejaculation

? There was a significant reduction in whole-gland prostate ADC values day 1 post-ejaculation

? 3-day abstinence from ejaculation is required to ensure maximal seminal vesicle distension

[Disaster]

? Both seminal vesicle and prostate secretions are controlled by androgens, and, in the presence of low circulating testosterone, ejaculate volume is reduced?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/ejaculatory-duct-obstruction

[Disaster]

I guess what we are looking for is called Hypospermia which means low semen volume.

This has a list of different meds that affect sperm and semen
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5354694/

Most of the medication do not affect the volume and they do it by causing harm

[aswinpras06]

The Mast cell activation theory clearly fits this.  The urinary tract is lined with extremely large number of  mast cells.  In pois sufferers this get activated by semen.  No semen means no mast cell degranulation.  Fits 100%

When you say a statement like that it would be helpful to back it up with a link that backs it up. I have Dysautonomia and many people with Dysautonomia have Mast Cell Activation disorders, but it is not an exact science and it is extremely hard to get tested for it. I am in many mast cell groups and I have read many articles that Dr. Afrin wrote, he is the expert on the subject. Occasionally he will answer emails but before I would bother him with this I would want to know where you learned that information..?

Here are some of the links about mast cells activated by semen.  I will try to get some more recent research articles on this by next week.

https://www.mastattack.org/2016/01/the-sex-series-part-five-seminal-allergy-post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-and-burning-semen-syndrome/

http://strengthflexibilityhealtheds.com/lets-talk-about-sex-baby-lets-talk-about-you-and-me-lets-also-talk-about-how-you-can-be-allergic-to-semen-and-how-it-relates-to-mast-cell-activation-syndrome-mcas-and-ehlers-danlos-syndrome-eds/

[Mr Raba]

My CFS specialist said that viruses like Epstein (mono) have an affinity for the sex glands.  There are many common virus in this family. They also have an affinity for nerves.

Maybe there is viral release in semen and subsequent immune activation to control it. I always test as if I had recent mono. I explain to PCP docs that this is consistent with reactivation.

If viruses are causing a chronic infection of the male sexual organs and POIS episodes, removal may be working by removing a focal point.

Just a thought to consider.

[Disaster]

.

TESTICLE #1:
I had developed abnormally large and painful testicles... so my First surgery was to remove 1 testicle.
I had a huge improvement in symptoms and health immediately.
However, within about 3 months, the remaining testicle grew almost double it's size to compensate for the missing one. And I was back to square one.


TESTICLE #2:
Second surgery was to remove the second testicle. Much more complicated.
I have to say- that was a very hard thing to do, personally, emotionally- so I really understand that.  I didn't want to change my sex, become more feminine, or have any desire to harm myself.   However, I figured I was worse off with POIS, than I was without my testicles... so I decided to go for it.

The second surgery helped reduce my POIS again by about 30% or close to that. However, it also caused some problems, which took time to properly treat. 

TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT:
The problem was that I didn't produce Testosterone any more. So I needed to see a very good Endocrinologist, who could properly administer the right amount of Testosterone. Initially, I was given too much, 1ml per week, and became very jittery.. and a lot of other things.  But after about a year, we found the right dose to be exactly .35mls per week- much lower.  I have been on that dose now for almost a decade. I regularly give myself a shot of testosterone every week.  Testosterone is a critical male hormone, as we all know, and without it, one can become depressed, weak, frail, lose muscle and other things...etc. Also you can't have an erection without it... which could possibly be worse than having POIS... depending.

After the Second surgery, and finding the right dose of Testosterone... I was finally able to start working again, and get my own apartment again. My POIS had been reduced significantly but still present. I still had POIS, but not quite as catastrophically. My condition still prevented me from having a relationship, and required me to schedule my Orgasm/ ejaculation on days when I knew I could take 2 days to recover.  But it went down from 6-7 days to 2 days I'd say.

I stayed that way for a few years.  Then I think it was in 2009, that I had the 3rd and 4th surgeries. I had to go to India for those. It was over $6,000 I think. none of it covered by insurance.


PROSTATE:
The 3rd and 4th surgeries were done a few days apart.  First the Urologist did a TURP. I originally wanted to entirely remove my Prostate, but I researched it, and found it was risky, could lead to incontinence, lack of erection.  So I opted for a TURP-- which is fairly non invasive, removal of a lot of the Prostate Tissue. But keeping it. The Prostate is one of the sex organs, and produces a component of Semen.


SEMINAL VESICLES:
The other organs that make semen are the Seminal Vesicles, and the Cowper's gland.  The Seminal Vesicles contribute probably the bulk of the Semen fluid. I had those removed. That is an unusual and invasive surgery because they are hidden behind the prostate. The Cowper's gland does not contribute much volume, and my Urologist recommended keeping it in, so I did.


POST OPERATIVE RECOVERY:
So the danger of these operations is that it's possible to become incontinent, and or lose ability to have an erection.  I did not have either of those things.  I had a solid recovery... it took some time though, and definitely a few weeks before I was on my feet again. After recovering, I was able to have an erection again, and have an orgasm, however now it was Dry Ejaculation. No Semen came out. The feeling was pretty much exactly the same orgasm though.


SUPPLEMENTS/ MEDICINE:
I currently take medicine to control the size of my Prostate, to keep it from enlarging again. I find this is really important to follow up with.  I take FLOMAX- a prescription from my local urologist. And I take SUPER BETA PROSTATE- which is and herbal supplement, quite powerful, actually effective also to reduce the Prostate.

Hi Animus,

Again I am so happy you gave more details on everything and ever since I read it I have been thinking about it more and more. I do believe that your case provides clues and the more details we have the more clues we will end up with. I have some questions that may bring those clues out. I think one of the big things is that you still had POIS even though you removed both Testicles. Is all seminal fluid equal? I think not but I think that there are probably components of each organs fluids that are the same. And that might be where the answer lays.  For example I believe that sperm is only produced in the testicles. So if you removed them and still had POIS sperm production/regeneration or sperm in general was not causing your symptoms. So in your case we can cross that off the list

1.?is the consensus that I did have POIS, a severe case of it.? It has been a long time since I watched the video but could you go into detail about all of your symptoms before you were symptom free? The more detail the better and if you could say if certain symptoms were more pronounced. Maybe rate them 1-10. And then rate them after each surgery. For example tiredness/sleepiness 10 before, after #1 testicle it was 7, after both testicles removed it was 6, after TURP and Seminal removal it was 3, after Prostate meds it was 0. Something like that. It may give us clues.

2.#1 Testicle removal. Did you ever get any specific explanation to why your testicles were enlarged? That isn?t a symptom I typically read on the forum or the Facebook group. I wonder if that gives a clue to why you had POIS.

3.You said ?I suffered strongly from POIS through my 30s..? Does that mean you got POIS for the first time in your 30s or you had it all your life through your 30s? I just want it to be clear. I think we will eventually find that there is a different subtype from the guys who have POIS from childhood compared to adult on-set POIS. So I think it is important to know which yours was.

4.?currently being able to have orgasm 2 or 3 times per week? Is that the limit? What happens if you have 7 orgasms per week? Just curious if you ever tried that and what happens. Personally I can have 2-3 in one night normally and that seems like a low amount in a week.


5.?The 3rd and 4th surgeries were done a few days apart? which was done 1st the TURP? I wish you can done them a little further apart to see the amount of improvement for a longer time for each. What was the amount of improvement on each surgery or could you not tell because they were so close together?

6.?to keep it from enlarging again? Did you have BPH or enlarged Prostate, sounds like you are implying that. If so which test showed it and how large enlarged was it? If you had BPH why could you not get the TURP in America since it is routine for BPH? This is interesting to me because I do think that my prostate becomes enlarged when I am aroused and then it?s possible it spasms during orgasm because I have a lot of soreness in that area sometimes more than others. But I never had it tested to see if it is enlarged regularly.

Lastly what is stands out is that the testicles make Testosterone and Testosterone increase production of semen.  So in your case it also looks like we can cross off testosterone as a suspect because your body doesn?t regenerate it and injecting it doesn?t trigger your POIS. So Sperm and Testosterone are off your list of suspects.

I am going to research to find the chemical make up of semen from each of the organs in question.  Then I may be able the come up with a shortened list of suspects.  To be honest I?m not real convinced about your regeneration theory because you would still have to narrow it down to ?what about the regeneration? and that could still be a chemical thing. I will research into this a little more but for the most part all of the energy in the human body comes from Mitochondria. There is a disease called Mitochodrial disease that I am very familiar with, there are about 100 types of Mitochondrial diseases and POIS doesn?t exactly fit that mold, mainly because of the psychological and neurological symptoms. But basically there are so many variation of Mito disease because Mitochondria operate like a factory and there are many moving parts and different  Mito disease have different ?part? problems. There is also something called Secondary Mitochondrial disease that happens when the mitochondria get injured by something like a drug toxicity.  And that can affect one organ or the whole body. A lot of medications are Mito toxic in different way. So it?s possible that a chemical that has ill effects is causing some kind of secondary Mito toxic effect. Let?s just say it will be very very hard to get researchers into proving this. They tried to do that with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome but failed. The better or easier thing to do is figure out the chemical trigger. Either something in the semen, something released during orgasm or some physical mechanism that then triggers a chemical release.

[nanna1]

My CFS specialist said that viruses like Epstein (mono) have an affinity for the sex glands.  There are many common virus in this family. They also have an affinity for nerves.

Maybe there is viral release in semen and subsequent immune activation to control it. I always test as if I had recent mono. I explain to PCP docs that this is consistent with reactivation.

If viruses are causing a chronic infection of the male sexual organs and POIS episodes, removal may be working by removing a focal point.

Just a thought to consider.

This is the best explanation of the Animus case I've heard so far. Thanks Mr Raba!

[Animus]

I think Quantum summed up my background very well.  Very accurately and scientifically.

I apologize, but won't be able to take part on this thread on a daily basis, as my business is very busy right now.

But briefly, Yes,
The surgeries removed both Testicles. Removed the Seminal Vesicles. Surgically reduced the Prostate, but left it in.  Cowper's gland was also left in on recommendation of my Doctor. Because the amount of semen the Cowper's produces is very fractional, small.. and he felt it would be also good just to have some lubrication of the urethra. 

I started on a weekly dose of Testosterone replacement.  Because of many things, but mainly because one can get depressed, lose muscle mass, etc. when you are low T... And I also still wanted to have sex every now and then.

Other than that- I take Avodart to further reduce my Prostate.
I think I did a "pie-chart" once for the group, showing the different components of Semen
(which includes Sperm from the Testicles, and  other ejaculatory fluids from the Seminal Vesicles, Prostate, Cowper's...
Now, this is a Pie chart that I made through my own research at the time... so please don't cite it as any official chart.!

I found this ? The ejaculate is composed of secretions from various sources. Two-thirds of the ejaculate volume is contributed by the seminal vesicles, one-third is contributed by the prostate, up to 10% is derived from the testicle and epididymis, and a small component is derived from the bulbo-urethral glands.2?

Exactly!!

[Animus]

You may find this interesting

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5674119/


The longitudinal effect of ejaculation on seminal vesicle fluid volume and whole-prostate ADC as measured on prostate MRI


Conclusion

The longitudinal effect of ejaculation on SV volume was demonstrated. Significant reductions in SV volume and whole-gland ADC were observed post-ejaculation, supporting a 3-day period of abstinence before prostate MRI.

Key Points

? Seminal vesicle volume significantly reduced 24 h post-ejaculation remaining reduced at day 2

? Seminal vesicle fluid volume significantly increased from day 1 to day 3 post-ejaculation

? There was a significant reduction in whole-gland prostate ADC values day 1 post-ejaculation

? 3-day abstinence from ejaculation is required to ensure maximal seminal vesicle distension

Very Valuable Information!!  Great job.

[Animus]

Hello all! 
Disaster, thank you for your inquiries, and your great start on the research!!.  as a general note, I unfortunately have very limited time for the forum for the next 3 months, as our work projects are entering a very busy phase...

But I want to thank you for digging Deep! into the issues.  I hope that your curiosity, and motivation, as well as all the other members posting on here.... will be well channeled and sustained toward the research goals.  We all will have you to thank for it. We have a great opportunity now to make some progress.  Hypospermia great job identifying that.

I'll try to answer the questions...
There are going to be many questions regarding my procedures, and the results- I totally understand...  And there are going to be many theories too, subgroups, and possible subtypes, etc. alternate explanations. 

But what I would like to start out by saying is that for our Best chances for a cure, I think we should focus on the Similarities, and not the Differences... And what we know has worked.  We all have slightly different theories, and yes, I don't agree with everyone's theory here. I would like to address them all, (but I can't because of the time factor.) 

Mast cells, Viruses, Allergies, etc.  they all have one common thread: Semen. Whether the cause of POIS is Semen Production ( the Refactory Period), or the activation of Urinary Mast cells, or triggering of an Allergy, etc.... I followed the Theory of Semen Production (Refactory Period) as the Cause of POIS.  And I had success. 

But I did a risky, difficult, and experimental procedure -3 or 4 surgeries.  Our goal, as I see it, is to develop a Safe Clinical Trial which members can undergo...   as an alternative to repeat this surgical solution.   The goal of my procedures was very simple: eliminate Semen Production.  The method was removal of the organs.  However there may be less invasive methods available...  which have the possibility of being done in a clinical trial. 

If I had the time, what I would do is investigate non-surgical ways of eliminating Semen Production... as the Straightest Path to a Cure.
Radiation of Prostate, Seminal Vesicles
Chemotherapy...
perhaps partial surgery.
Chemical castration.
etc.
This is the direction I would put my energy, and encourage investigation.  Each and Every one of these Procedures needs to be Hunted Down,.. completely understood and evaluated for it's potential use in a clinical trial!

as far as the Mast cell theory-
we know that having vasectomy does not end POIS. a vasectomy prevents semen from travelling through the Urethra during ejaculation, so it does not come in contact with the Mast cells.  I think it redirects it into the bladder...  so it would seem to me that the mast cell theory does not hold.

thanks & best luck.
I'll try to stay in touch as much as possible. And of course with the moderators too.
You are doing great work, Disaster, you're on the right track, I think. Thank you &
best regards,
Animus

[aswinpras06]

as far as the Mast cell theory-
we know that having vasectomy does not end POIS. a vasectomy prevents semen from travelling through the Urethra during ejaculation, so it does not come in contact with the Mast cells.  I think it redirects it into the bladder...  so it would seem to me that the mast cell theory does not hold.

Vasectomy is  blocking the vas deferens from carrying the sperm into urethra and not semen.   So the mast cell activation by other components of semen is still possible after a vasectomy. 

[Disaster]

The Mast cell activation theory clearly fits this.  The urinary tract is lined with extremely large number of  mast cells.  In pois sufferers this get activated by semen.  No semen means no mast cell degranulation.  Fits 100%

When you say a statement like that it would be helpful to back it up with a link that backs it up. I have Dysautonomia and many people with Dysautonomia have Mast Cell Activation disorders, but it is not an exact science and it is extremely hard to get tested for it. I am in many mast cell groups and I have read many articles that Dr. Afrin wrote, he is the expert on the subject. Occasionally he will answer emails but before I would bother him with this I would want to know where you learned that information..?

Here are some of the links about mast cells activated by semen.  I will try to get some more recent research articles on this by next week.

https://www.mastattack.org/2016/01/the-sex-series-part-five-seminal-allergy-post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-and-burning-semen-syndrome/

http://strengthflexibilityhealtheds.com/lets-talk-about-sex-baby-lets-talk-about-you-and-me-lets-also-talk-about-how-you-can-be-allergic-to-semen-and-how-it-relates-to-mast-cell-activation-syndrome-mcas-and-ehlers-danlos-syndrome-eds/

Unfortunately these links are editorials from not reliable medical sources. I was hoping you had links to Pubmed studies or a reliable medical journal article. Something along those line. Unfortunately anyone can write anything on the internet and make it seem legit. I know a lot about Mast Cell disorder and I have spoken to Dr. Afrin, who is the expert on it. Mast cell activation symptoms are very different than POIS. Also I believe that Mast cell activation could be present on a small level but as a symptom not the cause. Kind of like a fever is a symptom of an infection and not the cause. Yes the fever happens and yes the fever causes symptoms but the infection is what causes the fever..

[Disaster]

Hello all! 
Disaster, thank you for your inquiries, and your great start on the research!!.  as a general note, I unfortunately have very limited time for the forum for the next 3 months, as our work projects are entering a very busy phase...

But I want to thank you for digging Deep! into the issues.  I hope that your curiosity, and motivation, as well as all the other members posting on here.... will be well channeled and sustained toward the research goals.  We all will have you to thank for it. We have a great opportunity now to make some progress.  Hypospermia great job identifying that.

If I had the time, what I would do is investigate non-surgical ways of eliminating Semen Production... as the Straightest Path to a Cure.
Radiation of Prostate, Seminal Vesicles
Chemotherapy...
perhaps partial surgery.
Chemical castration.
etc.
This is the direction I would put my energy, and encourage investigation.  Each and Every one of these Procedures needs to be Hunted Down,.. completely understood and evaluated for it's potential use in a clinical trial!

Animus, I appreciate all of those kind words! I know you are very busy so do not feel pressure to answer all of my 6 questions at one time. Answer whenever you have time and however many you have time to answer.

This post and research is now constantly on my mind. I had an idea to test the semen reduction volume. In theory BPH medications like the one you are taking reduces semen production/volume so I was thinking that if semen volume was a problem for us or any POIS guy the  a trial on a BPH medication should show some reduction even if it’s 20%. Probably it is best tested on those of us who have longer lasting symptoms to measure reduction based on duration of symptoms.. for example if someone has 7 days of symptoms and they have 5-6 days after the BPH med then it is more obvious of a help then if someone has 1-2 days of symptoms. And maybe everyone could do this through their urologist and have the improvement documented..

[drop247]

Be careful with BPH medication. There are websites just like this one full of guys with Post-finasteride syndrome (PFS).

[Disaster]

Be careful with BPH medication. There are websites just like this one full of guys with Post-finasteride syndrome (PFS).

Thank you for the heads up. Definitely need medical supervision and research any of the meds before taken. Perhaps we can find one with a lower Side effect rate...

[Animus]

Hello all! 
Disaster, thank you for your inquiries, and your great start on the research!!.  as a general note, I unfortunately have very limited time for the forum for the next 3 months, as our work projects are entering a very busy phase...

But I want to thank you for digging Deep! into the issues.  I hope that your curiosity, and motivation, as well as all the other members posting on here.... will be well channeled and sustained toward the research goals.  We all will have you to thank for it. We have a great opportunity now to make some progress.  Hypospermia great job identifying that.

If I had the time, what I would do is investigate non-surgical ways of eliminating Semen Production... as the Straightest Path to a Cure.
Radiation of Prostate, Seminal Vesicles
Chemotherapy...
perhaps partial surgery.
Chemical castration.
etc.
This is the direction I would put my energy, and encourage investigation.  Each and Every one of these Procedures needs to be Hunted Down,.. completely understood and evaluated for it's potential use in a clinical trial!

Animus, I appreciate all of those kind words! I know you are very busy so do not feel pressure to answer all of my 6 questions at one time. Answer whenever you have time and however many you have time to answer.

This post and research is now constantly on my mind. I had an idea to test the semen reduction volume. In theory BPH medications like the one you are taking reduces semen production/volume so I was thinking that if semen volume was a problem for us or any POIS guy the  a trial on a BPH medication should show some reduction even if it’s 20%. Probably it is best tested on those of us who have longer lasting symptoms to measure reduction based on duration of symptoms.. for example if someone has 7 days of symptoms and they have 5-6 days after the BPH med then it is more obvious of a help then if someone has 1-2 days of symptoms. And maybe everyone could do this through their urologist and have the improvement documented..

Yes, yes.. 
It's true BPH medication is the "low hanging fruit" here.  in a way, this will inhibit the Prostate.. which will account for +/-30 percent of seminal fluid.  So yes, that is a good way to start.
There is also the seminal vesicles. and the Testicles.  Yes, . it would be useful to demonstrate the effects with 7 days POIS versus 3-4 days.
I use Super Beta Prostate. I find it quite powerful on the Prostate. It's available for about $18. per 60 pill bottle. I take 10 per day, versus the 2 recommended. that is what I have found to work for me... over many years of taking it. 

[Disaster]

What brand of Super Beta Prostate do you use? Looks like there are some knock off brands that also have the same name. I have to look closer into the chemical make up of each organs fluids. This may allow us to target one over the other for more precise effects and more beneficial results.

So far this is what I have:

Composition of Semen
Semen is a substance produced by the male reproductive organs. It is composed of spermatozoa (sperm) in a semi-viscous fluid. Structures within the male reproductive tract that are involved in the production of semen include:
* Testes and epididymis
* Prostate
* Seminal vesicles
* Bulbourethral gland
Semen is produced as a combination of secretions from the different regions of the male reproductive tract. Each fraction differs in chemical composition and function. The combination of these fractions during ejaculation results in the optimal environment for transporting sperm to the endocervical mucus in the female.
* Spermatozoa are produced in the testes. They mature in the epididymis. The testes also produce testosterone and inhibin.
* Fluid from the seminal vesicles accounts for approximately 70% of semen volume. The seminal vesicles are the source of fructose in semen. Fructose is used by the spermatozoa as an energy source.
* The prostate gland supplies about 20% of the volume of semen. Its fluids include acid phosphatase and proteolytic enzymes that lead to coagulation and subsequent liquefaction of semen. The prostate also contains most of the IgA found in semen.
* The bulbourethral gland produces mucoproteins that make up about 5% of the volume of semen.


Testicles-Produces Sperm, Testosterone and Inhibin
Epididymitis-Sperm Matures here
Seminal Vesicles-Fructose (energy for sperm)
Prostate-acid phosphatase and proteolytic enzymes (lead to coagulation and subsequent liquefaction of semen)
Bulbourethral gland/Cowper's Gland-Mucoprotein, high content of  Immunoglobulin A and epithelial-derived glycoprotein

[Disaster]

Hi Guys, just so this thread stays on the topic of Castration, I started a new Topic called Semen Volume Reduction

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3182.0

[Hopeoneday]

I did some tests.
In this tests i did expel only
small amount of semen, only tiny amount, then i stoped ejaculation
on purpose.
I did want to see, wil i get some pois like symptomes, like prostate pain,
legs jerks, legs weakness, inflamed eys...

Intresting, from only small amout of semen expelling , from that i get pain
in prostate, inflamed eys , legs jerks, weakness wich is less then from full eyaculation.

I hawe suspicios, i think that cascade
of symptomes starts from place when prostate ducts opened and when semen hit that area some sort of reaction happend(like inflamation).
( i do not get thouse symptomes
from prejaculate ).

[Disaster]

I do not think I could control my semen amount like you did. I could imagine it causing more pain by staying in my penis especially when it is blocking my pee after. Also we don?t know it could be that POIS when the volume reaches the Urethra. so in your case the same volume is rushing through the Urethra it is just not exiting all the way through the penis by you reducing your ejaculation. Also it could be that one or more of these glands are over producing semen because as far as I know I never heard anyone saying they had their fluid volume measured. So if that is the case than it is possible that causes some spasms which trigger inflammation cascade, over reaction to from some nerves, ect.. That is why I have to do more research into how accurate ultrasound and MRI are for measuring semen fluid volume before ejaculation.  Probably the best place to get it measured is a fertility clinic if they were willing to test it..