New study shows Gum disease link to Alzheimer’s

[Iwillbeatthis]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2191814-we-may-finally-know-what-causes-alzheimers-and-how-to-stop-it/



Some of you might find this article this interesting. I do remember when I had my teeth professionally cleaned I felt amazing afterwards and I also have bad gums. So maybe there is some bacteria like this which is also causing POIS.

[b_jim]

I remember a doctor saying that the general health of mouth and teeth is the reflect of the health of the whole body.

[demografx]

Interesting, b_jim.

[Iwillbeatthis]

Yes b_jim and in Chinese Medicine they use the tongue and pulse to diagnose the patients. I assume that many POISers will have bad gums.
When I saw a Chinese Medicine doctor he said my tongue was very dark which is a sign of poor circulation in the body.

[Muon]

Nice article. Something that seems totally unrelated and under are nose could be responsible for something like Alzheimer's.
I have both poor blood circulation and a dark tongue. I wonder if this affect parts of the brain? Blood circulation-->brain function-->POIS?

[berlin1984]

Apparantly all kind of pathogens can leak down from the mouth :-(

Personally, I have an inflamed/painful mouth feeling one day(?) after O.

Independant of that I also have diagnosed peridontal disease without pain (and bleeding gums if I don't take care).

As I'm currently quite hooked on nanna1's theories about latent viruses (and immune activation), I thought I'd post the herpes links:

"Reactivation of HCMV in periodontitis lesions tends to be associated with progressing periodontal disease. Herpesvirus-associated periodontitis lesions harbor elevated levels of periodontopathic bacteria, including Actinobacillus actinomycetemcomitans, Porphyromonas gingivalis, Bacteriodes forsythus, Prevotella intermedia, Prevotella nigrescens and Treponema denticola. It may be that active periodontal herpesvirus infection impairs periodontal defenses, thereby permitting subgingival overgrowth of periodontopathic bacteria. Alteration between latent and active herpesvirus infection in the periodontium might lead to transient local immunosuppression and explain in part the episodic progressive nature of human periodontitis"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11155159/

"It has been suggested that the coexistence of these viruses and possibly of other viruses with periodontal bacteria and host immune responses can be seen as a precarious balance that has the potential to lead to periodontal destruction."
"Some periodontal bacteria can reactivate a latent herpes virus."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4774289/

"the available data suggest that periodontitis occurs more frequently and progresses more rapidly in herpesvirus-infected than in non-infected periodontal sites."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15553977/

I find it amusing that https://www.dentistryiq.com/dental-hygiene/patient-education/article/16360043/4-supplements-that-dental-professionals-need-to-discuss-with-periodontal-patients recommends Echinacea as "Inhibits enzymes that break down tissue." even though the method of action might then be (also) the anti-viral properties of Echinacea.

For my own health, I'm now trying some candy with Lactobacillus Reuteri that is supposed to help with the gums by overriding the pathogenic community in the mouth. (independent of trying nanna1's immune activation stack)

[berlin1984]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2191814-we-may-finally-know-what-causes-alzheimers-and-how-to-stop-it/

This article does not mention Herpes at all, however this does: https://www.alzheimers.net/alzheimers-and-herpes/
"The research supports the idea that amyloid beta may start out in a helpful role to support your body in fighting against common infections. With age, the immune system weakens and more infections take hold, which creates a build up of amyloid beta ? something that scientists believe then contributes to Alzheimer?s."
"The studies tracked the health of people who had been diagnosed with a version of herpes (one focused on HSV-1, the other VZV) and found that people who had the virus were more likely to develop Alzheimer?s"
"Notably, in both cases, the people who received treatment for herpes saw their risk drastically decrease. In one study, the decrease was 45%; in the other it was an even more impressive 80%."


This is for sure very interesting stuff..

[berlin1984]

Personally, I have an inflamed/painful mouth feeling one day(?) after O.

It's maybe too early to say for sure, but I think I greatly improved this by switching to a different toothpaste. I used to use this toothpaste before because my dentist recommended it explicitly for my case, but I somehow forgot that fact and had switched to other tooth pastes in between.

It's called Paradontax and if it is not available in your country, you could check the ingredients and get a similar one.
They claim that it is 4x as effective as "normal" toothpaste in fixing the cause of bleeding gums. (Their normal toothpaste, not the whitening one).

Besides the normal tooth paste ingredients, it contains some herbs that all have antiviral property:
* Eccinacea (see the dentistryiq.com article above mentioning it)
* Salvia
* Peruvian rhatany
* Myrrh

The other ingredients you can also find in normal tooth paste (like mint) by the way also has antiviral properties.

So I hope this continues to fix my POIS-associated mouth ache (where I'm very keen on hopeing it is the immune system cause and I can fix it.)

EDIT: This post might have been a false lead. The tooth paste doesn't help as much as I think. What I now think helps is eating yoghurt.
"In conclusion, periodonitis was significantly associated with the less intake of yogurt among the Korean adults, but the calcium contained in yogurt is not likely to cause it."https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5662169/
 
 

[Muon]

So I hope this continues to fix my POIS-associated mouth ache (where I'm very keen on hopeing it is the immune system cause and I can fix it.)

I bet mast cells are playing a role here. I can get nasal drip from toothpaste.

[berlin1984]

Do you mean Post-nasal drip or a runny nose? I get a runny nose from milk (but not cheese) and from wheat (and I cut them out, see signature..)

My wife gets a sneeze attack from the "strong"/"fresh" chewing gums and I don't. I love the strong menthol effect of those chewing gums. And nanna1 seems to too.

Crazy Idea: Maybe the reason my POIS got into my interest again recently is because of Corona I work from home and have access to a tooth brush and therefore don't take the airwaves strong chewing gums anymore that had unwittingly a positive effect?

[Muon]

Do you mean Post-nasal drip or a runny nose?

Both can happen.

[Muon]

Personally, I have an inflamed/painful mouth feeling one day(?) after O.

Independant of that I also have diagnosed peridontal disease without pain (and bleeding gums if I don't take care).

IL-1 Superfamily Members and Periodontal Diseases

Bleeding gums can also be a sign of abnormal levels of coagulation factors, for example, lower levels of von Willebrand factor/Factor VIII.

[Tijmen]

I also get a allergic reaction to toothpaste: sore throat, headache, post nasal drip. I have had gum disease problems for as long as I can remember. I now switched to coconut oil for brushing my teeth. My grandma has Alzheimer, and my mom and dad have pretty bad memory issues. I also remember having cracked dry lips when I used to go school, which might indicate a fluoride allergy. This is a interesting point, and if I notice any change in my pois after using coconut oil for some time I will let youguys know.

[Muon]

I also get a allergic reaction to toothpaste

I put my money on MCAS. Do you suffer from premature ejaculation (PE)? Memory problems and PE are associated with low BDNF levels.

[Tijmen]

I also get a allergic reaction to toothpaste

I put my money on MCAS. Do you suffer from premature ejaculation (PE)? Memory problems and PE are associated with low BDNF levels.

Yes, I'm 90 procent sure I do have MCAS (or histamine intolerance). I also have hay fever and dust mite allergy. I am already on a low histamine diet, which has helped with my digestion and overall mood/ anxiety levels a lot (there are more things that I noticed, but I don't want to make this an entire lecture about me lol). And I do have PE, which is probably due to high histamine levels. I haven't had any luck with anti-histamine's on my pois so far unfortunately.

[jon1_reclaim]

Hi I will beat this,

I can concur, I get great after effect from getting a general clean up with the dentist and also suspect there is some kind of link to which you are referring.

I also , just posted about OVEX threadworm/parasite treatment , this helps and I think there are links with both of these things.

I am not a Dr, but these two things assist very positively.

I have a host of natural mouthwashes i lean towards , I have seen threads on candida being a potential cause too, and bucket all these things together as having some part in the picture.

[berlin1984]

Apparantly all kind of pathogens can leak down from the mouth :-(

Personally, I have an inflamed/painful mouth feeling one day(?) after O.

I went to a different dentist now and got a bacteria check done (not paid by German insurance, done by the IMD berlin lab that was mentioned quite a few times in this forum https://www.imd-berlin.de/fachinformationen/diagnostikinformationen/parodontitis-molekularbiologischer-nachweis-parodontitis-assoziierter-markerkeime.html ).
I will post the results into the medical results thread at a later point (still waiting for some other results).

Conclusion is: Dentist wants me to take antibiotics. (And this is a dentist more in the natural corner of doctors, so I guess he wouldn't easily suggest this).
Metronidazol and Amoxicillin.

Related snippet, in my opinion:

"In addition, compared to controls clearance of bacteria from the blood was delayed in ME/CFS patients following exercise.. These findings suggest a role for an altered gut microbiome and increased bacterial translocation following exercise in ME/CFS patients that may account for the profound post-exertional malaise experienced by ME/CFS patients."

(My theory: Bad mouth bacteria -> bad gut bacteria -> exercise or orgasm -> bacteria going all around the body?!)

Let's see where this goes. (I will have time to only take them sometime in the next weeks. And I guess I should read through threads like https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2775.0 before).

[Muon]

Metronidazol and Amoxicillin.

Internist put me on 11-day Metronidazol I believe for positive lactose hydrogen breath test. It didn't do anything for me. Mast cells or other immune cells activating in your mouth could be responsible for poor oral health, inflaming stuff. I believe MMP-8 is an inflammation marker for periodontitis.

[berlin1984]

Internist put me on 11-day Metronidazol I believe for positive lactose hydrogen breath test. It didn't do anything for me.

Just for completeness sake: There is the therapy recommendation here: https://www.imd-berlin.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Diag_Info/139_Parodontitis_Markerkeimanalyse_Rueckseite.pdf

If one has high values for A.actinomycetemcomitans (i do) then you also need Amoxicillin or Ciprofloxacin in addition to Metronidazol

[jon1_reclaim]

Hi Berlin- Re ? Conclusion is: Dentist wants me to take antibiotics. (And this is a dentist more in the natural corner of doctors, so I guess he wouldn't easily suggest this).
Metronidazol and Amoxicill?

All I can say is I had a bad experience with antibiotics and would strongly avoid if at all possible.

Also , I have tried the following and it has helped my gums immensely-

Gargle with boiled water (add some cold to make it bearable , but still warm) + salt/turmeric and sometimes lemon.

I am no doctor , but this gargle morning/evening does me wonders if I feel my mouth is getting plaquey/too much.

A good plaque clean up by the dentist is always great too in general.