Author Topic: Ideas on Endothelial Dysfunction (Read 42214 times)

Nas · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2018, 10:45:14 AM »

*sigh*
It's going to be really hard to convince a health professional that I have POIS, nonetheless that I suffer from Endothelial dysfunction, nonetheless that I need dexamethason to test for angiopoietin 1 upregulation. He'll just think that I'm being delusional. I'm really stuck here.
I guess I'll just continue 1mg dexamethasone for the rest of the week and then terminate it, I doubt any benefit would come from such a low dose anyways.

Bulbo · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2018, 08:33:43 PM »

Hi Nas
Dont take any steroids continuously for more than 5 days... it can reduce immunity, central obeisity, hypertension and many other side effects... also after taking steroids for a few days continuously u cannot stop steroids abruptly... u hv to taper the dose and stop... for ecammple if u hv been tkking 8 mg for five days resuce the dose to 4 mg for 2 more days and then stop

Nas · « **Reply #22 on:** June 29, 2018, 09:57:26 PM »

Hi Bulbo,
I'm only taking 1mg plus I'm using 4 more days than I'll stop.
I realize the consequences of this medication but I want to hit a week to perhaps give a chance for the medication to prove it self.

Nas · « **Reply #23 on:** July 01, 2018, 10:41:35 PM »

Hey guys,
So after about 5 days of trying 1mg dexamethason, I'm terminating this method.

So here is my conclusion:
1- The medication really accelerates your recovery from POIS, I was more social, clear headed, motivated and focused in three days of dexamethason after orgasm than an entire week of normal POIS recovery.
2- Unfortunately, Dexamethason comes with side effects, which unfortunately bit my ass on the fifth day. As someone who deals with pure OCD and depression as a POIS symptom, at first dexamethason seemed great for those two until yesterday I was watching a video on YouTube, then suddenly I started experiencing soul crushing pure OCD thoughts that put me in a state of panic and anxiety; I couldn't even sleep that day and until right now I'm feeling some of the effects of OCD. So definitely I do not recommend Dexamethason if you suffer from psychological issues.

Yet I also would like to remind everybody, that for someone who tried so many of the treatments that have been tested on this forum and got a 30% improvement max. This was still a great experience. Dexamethason definitely works for me but It's not a safe method of treatment at all.

When it comes to the theory of Endothelial dysfunction this is still not a proof that Dexamethason healed my Endothelium, because there is an equal chance that Dexamethason healed my brain inflammation that I suffer from. I never usually find success with NSAID's nor with Histamine blockers though so I'm not sure about that.

Thus, to properly test weather the vascular permeability factor is the driving reason for POIS symptoms I need to use much safer methods and treatments for Endothelial Dysfunction. There are many methods that I found articles about, but most of them focus on Endothelial function when it comes to elevated blood pressure related illnesses. Hence the blood pressure lowering treatment methods suggested by many articles. So I wonder is it a good idea to try ACE inhibitors or Beta blockers even though POIS causes us lower blood pressure? Looking forward for your suggestions.

swell · « **Reply #24 on:** July 02, 2018, 12:47:28 AM »

I dont find info on this maybe someone here has. My body is strange with abnormaly small torso and abnormaly long legs. 10 years ago I thought I will grow into a normal body like others but that never materialized. I never been able to run for too long and have to catch breadth. I have speech issues I think as I run out of air while talking. Is there a condition that relates to abnormal small torso size for male?

aswinpras06 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 02, 2018, 10:03:32 AM »

Hi Swell

Even I have a small built torso and feel out of breath while talking and this exists from my childhood days. I've reached 40 years now and still have the same problem. Doctors I have consulted have attributed this to my allergic rhinitis and sinus issues, but don't have a solution for it. This may be due to chronic inflammation in our airway. But till now I could not find out the exact reason because the doctors are not that helpful and they usually send for speech therapy which I tried for six months, with no improvement.

swell · « **Reply #26 on:** July 02, 2018, 11:01:43 AM »

I too same, allergic rhinitus and sinus issues. I got tested for every allergy substance I could but all tests came negative. Doc even injected into bloodstream still came negative. Good to know not that I want people to suffer but that others have same issue. I get too much nasal discharge all times which cause more problems like affects the tone/pitch of my voice - which hate it. I am trying NAC and Alpha Lipoic both in sustained release twice daily. NAC is supposed to clear airways, but to me it does very little. The only thing that really helps is 'guaifaniscene'. But for some reason I dont like taking it daily.

Quantum · « **Reply #27 on:** July 02, 2018, 08:04:04 PM »

Quote from: Nas on July 01, 2018, 10:41:35 PM

Hey guys,
So after about 5 days of trying 1mg dexamethason, I'm terminating this method.

So here is my conclusion:
1- The medication really accelerates your recovery from POIS, I was more social, clear headed, motivated and focused in three days of dexamethason after orgasm than an entire week of normal POIS recovery.
2- Unfortunately, Dexamethason comes with side effects, which unfortunately bit my ass on the fifth day. As someone who deals with pure OCD and depression as a POIS symptom, at first dexamethason seemed great for those two until yesterday I was watching a video on YouTube, then suddenly I started experiencing soul crushing pure OCD thoughts that put me in a state of panic and anxiety; I couldn't even sleep that day and until right now I'm feeling some of the effects of OCD. So definitely I do not recommend Dexamethason if you suffer from psychological issues.

Yet I also would like to remind everybody, that for someone who tried so many of the treatments that have been tested on this forum and got a 30% improvement max. This was still a great experience. Dexamethason definitely works for me but It's not a safe method of treatment at all.

When it comes to the theory of Endothelial dysfunction this is still not a proof that Dexamethason healed my Endothelium, because there is an equal chance that Dexamethason healed my brain inflammation that I suffer from. I never usually find success with NSAID's nor with Histamine blockers though so I'm not sure about that.

Thus, to properly test weather the vascular permeability factor is the driving reason for POIS symptoms I need to use much safer methods and treatments for Endothelial Dysfunction. There are many methods that I found articles about, but most of them focus on Endothelial function when it comes to elevated blood pressure related illnesses. Hence the blood pressure lowering treatment methods suggested by many articles. So I wonder is it a good idea to try ACE inhibitors or Beta blockers even though POIS causes us lower blood pressure? Looking forward for your suggestions.

Hi Nas,

Corticosteroids are the "fight or flight" hormones, so they surely not calm down. But they are very strong to stop the immune response, and therefore, to lower inflammation.

As with any medication that has significant side effects, it is often to find to lowest efficient dosage. Another POIS sufferer have reported that a single low dose of corticosteroids, just before or after O, was helpful.

Hopefully, I am glad you decided not to try the 20mg dose

FernandoPOIS · « **Reply #28 on:** July 02, 2018, 08:33:33 PM »

Hi Swell

On this feature of presenting the small torso:
As I mentioned on my topic on causes and treatments for POIS (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2714.0), I noticed that members of the Facebook group (POIS) presented small trunk relative to the legs, thin neck, small jaw and prominent cheeks. The men I've seen in the group who have white skin, the cheeks are red as well. Physical characteristics just like mine.

Regarding the possible metabolic alterations, I highlight the mutation in the MTHFR gene as a probable cause of these physical characteristics in most of the men who suffer from this disease. There may also be problems with other enzymes. Each one has to do a genetic test to see what enzymatic changes it has.

I joined a Facebook group about MTHFR and the people in the group are very much like the men I saw in the Facebook POIS group.

After gathering the information I found in the following places: This forum (POISCENTER), Facebook Groups and Google searches I strongly believe that men who suffer from POIS have a deficiency in the general development of the body with much evidence like little muscle mass in the trunk and problems related to connective tissue (colagen).

In my specific case, I have a very small trunk, long neck. Since I was 14, I'm too ashamed to take off my shirt. My body looks like a 12-year-old boy despite my height (1.90). All of my photos I took on the beach when I was 14 or 15 were burned. I'm very ashamed. I believed that this would change when I arrived at the age of twenty years or more. But this never happened. I'm still very thin. I managed to improve this condition a little with a few years of bodybuilding, but after the beginning of POIS, I had to stop the exercises.

In parallel to this, I trained soccer since I was a child and maybe because I dedicated a lot I excelled in this sport and almost became a professional. But it had many physical limitations. Had large bruises after someone beat my leg. Always have vascular problems. I already had 2 varicose veins surgery. The first with 29 years old and the other this year (36 years old)

The main question is:

If we have this characteristic and there is no way to change, we must take care to try to improve this condition.

How to:
Correct feeding and supplementation to correct enzymatic deficiencies.
Correct physical exercises to improve posture, muscle condition, and vagus nerve work.

aswinpras06 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 03, 2018, 01:49:59 AM »

You're are an excellent observer Fernando. The thin body which many of us have may be due to fat malabsorption which inturn is most likely caused by enzymatic deficiency. Good and correct nutrition is the key factor in overcoming this. So far I have little success in increasing my body weight. But good sleep helps a lot.

Muon · « **Reply #30 on:** July 03, 2018, 11:15:37 AM »

Hi Nas,

With such low dosage and having good effects could indicate you are affecting the right system. What that system is, is a big question mark. ACE inhibitors and beta blockers work via different mechanisms though. Yes most of the endothelial related papers are focussing on abnormal blood pressure as the central problem instead of tackling endothelial dysfunction/inflammation regardless of blood pressure or cholesterol problems.

Off-topic:
Some ideas about low muscle mass; Metabolism problems by POIS, malabsorption in general, Gastrointestinal motility problems by autonomic dysfunction or decreased blood supply to muscles.

Nas · « **Reply #31 on:** July 05, 2018, 02:38:06 AM »

Hi guys,
So I stumbled upon an online article about repairing a leaky Blood Brain Barrier:https://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/how-to-repair-a-leaky-blood-brain-barrier-ways-heal-fix-supplements-mental-health-neuroinflammation-treatments-causes-gaba-injury-hyperpermeability

What's interesting is that this article suggests ?in his book Why Isn?t My Brain Working, Dr. Datis Kharrazian explains that the blood-brain barrier can break down and become ?leaky?. This allows harmful substances to enter your brain, contributing to brain inflammation, which has been shown to cause cognitive problems and mental illness"

And many of the treatment methods have been discussed in this forum such as: Omega-3, gluten free diet, healing the gut, B-vitamines, Curcumin, Vitamin D-3, etc.

Quantum · « **Reply #32 on:** July 05, 2018, 10:14:52 AM »

Quote from: Nas on July 05, 2018, 02:38:06 AM

Hi guys,
So I stumbled upon an online article about repairing a leaky Blood Brain Barrier:https://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/how-to-repair-a-leaky-blood-brain-barrier-ways-heal-fix-supplements-mental-health-neuroinflammation-treatments-causes-gaba-injury-hyperpermeability

What's interesting is that this article suggests ?in his book Why Isn?t My Brain Working, Dr. Datis Kharrazian explains that the blood-brain barrier can break down and become ?leaky?. This allows harmful substances to enter your brain, contributing to brain inflammation, which has been shown to cause cognitive problems and mental illness"

And many of the treatment methods have been discussed in this forum such as: Omega-3, gluten free diet, healing the gut, B-vitamines, Curcumin, Vitamin D-3, etc.

Hi Nas,

Good article, from my point of view. Many of my favorite supplements are talked about in it. Broccoli is in each of my green smoothies, I take omega-3 every day, 1000ui of vit D every day too ( not much sun in my part of the world), curcumin with black pepper in my breakfast cereals every morning. All these are good for inflammation in general, and if they also help eliminate a leaky blood-brain barrier, that's great. Stress management, through meditation, yoga, brain wave entrainment, are also part of my life for years.

I am in far more better condition than when I was younger. It's the results of those many healthy choices over the years. But we have to begin somewhere. This article is a very good starter, I think.

Nas · « **Reply #33 on:** July 09, 2018, 12:34:04 AM »

Hello guys,

So I stumbled recently on an article discussing the BBB permeability that also discussed how to test for a leaky BBB. Here is the link: ( https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/blood-brain-barrier-causes-tests-leaky-brain/#Health_Tools_I_Wish_I_Had_When_I_Was_Sick ).

One of the testing methods was testing for MMP-9 enzyme levels in the blood as an indicator:

"Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) play a role in the disruption of the blood-brain barrier (BBB), especially MMP9. MMPs are endopeptidases (enzymes that break down peptide bonds) that degrade the extracellular matrix.

Disruption of the BBB occurs after a stroke, and worsens brain injuries. Many animal and postmortem studies of brain tissues from stroke patients have shown an increase in MMP9 levels following a stroke.

In one study, researchers studied the effect of MMP9 on rat brains with traumatic brain injuries. After the brain injury, MMP9 levels significantly increased, as did BBB disruption. Additionally, treatment with an MMP inhibitor reduced BBB disruption"

Testing for these can be a huge step in confirming our high BBB permeability problem and it can also confirm a case of chronic inflammation or Auto-immune disease potentially.

Nas · « **Reply #34 on:** July 09, 2018, 01:28:50 AM »

I also stumbled on another article concerning the role of the Blood-Testis-Barrier (BTB) and the Sertoli cells on protecting auto-antigenic germ cells. Here is the link: ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4043859/ )

" The focus of this manuscript is to review the evidence that the Blood-Testis-Barrier (BTB)/Sertoli cell (SC) barrier along with the SCs ability to modulate the immune response is vital for protecting auto-antigenic germ cells. In normal testis, the BTB/SC barrier protects the majority of the auto-antigenic germ cells by limiting access by the immune system and sequestering these ?new antigens?. SCs also modulate testis immune cells (induce regulatory immune cells) by expressing several immunoregulatory factors, thereby creating a local tolerogenic environment optimal for survival of nonsequesetred auto-antigenic germ cells. Collectively, the fortress created by the BTB/SC barrier along with modulation of the immune response is pivotal for completion of spermatogenesis and species survival."

Highlights:
"
1- Appearance of germ cells, expressing novel cell surface and intracellular proteins, after induction of the systemic tolerance makes them auto-immunogenic.
2- Sertoli cells (SCs) protect germ cells by forming the Blood-Testis-Barrier (BTB)/SC barrier, includes the tight junctions between Sertoli cells along with the body of the SCs, and modulating the local environment of the testis.
3- The BTB/SC barrier sequesters the majority of auto-antigenic germ cells and prevents the immune cells from gaining access to these developing germ cells.
4- Immunomodulatory factors expressed by SCs protect the nonsequesetred auto-antigenic germ cells by inducing regulatory cells either directly and/or indirectly."

The only problem I am confused by though, is that the BTB is situated between the testicles and the blood vessels, yet POIS only occurs during ejaculation? So if anything this can be supposedly explained as that the endothelial cells in the urethra are the ones that are leaky and not the BTB. This kind of confuses me so I am looking forward for your response. If we have an endothelial dysfunction in the reproductive system, where will it be? in the BTB, the prostate or the urethra?

Muon · « **Reply #35 on:** July 09, 2018, 11:47:18 AM »

Perhaps we should map all the layers of tissue making up the 'walls' within the entire Genitourinary system first. Like what is the order of layers or cells within walls of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminal_vesicle or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urethra . I still don't have a clear picture in front of me.

swell · « **Reply #36 on:** July 09, 2018, 02:13:41 PM »

If pois related to an endothelial dysfunction this could be an easy test. It has Glisodin, SOD molecules protected through GI degradation and other compounds for endothelium regulation?

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item01997/Endothelial-Defense-with-Full-Spectrum-Pomegranate-and-Cordiart

Nas · « **Reply #37 on:** July 09, 2018, 02:45:49 PM »

Quote from: swell on July 09, 2018, 02:13:41 PM

If pois related to an endothelial dysfunction this could be an easy test. It has Glisodin, SOD molecules protected through GI degradation and other compounds for endothelium regulation?

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item01997/Endothelial-Defense-with-Full-Spectrum-Pomegranate-and-Cordiart

Hmmm, I wonder if that Endothelial protection would be useful at all in our case, maybe should order it and see what.

Nas · « **Reply #38 on:** July 09, 2018, 02:49:23 PM »

Quote from: Muon on July 09, 2018, 11:47:18 AM

Perhaps we should map all the layers of tissue making up the 'walls' within the entire Genitourinary system first. Like what is the order of layers or cells within walls of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminal_vesicle or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urethra . I still don't have a clear picture in front of me.

Yeah this part is quite confusing.

Muon · « **Reply #39 on:** July 09, 2018, 03:27:46 PM »

If you categorize and divide the Genitourinary system into two parts, organs where organic material is being stored/produced and transport tubes. I think POIS reactions take place on the inside of transport tubes. I do get symptoms when pre-ejaculate is dripping out so that's why I suspect tissue which transport fluids.

Now if you compare storage tissue with transport tissue you may find differences in their structure and this will eliminate layers which are the same for both. You may focus on what they do not have in common.

I do get reactions from food as well upon contact with the oral cavity. I suspect there is something wrong with mucous membranes in general.

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Author Topic: Ideas on Endothelial Dysfunction (Read 42214 times)