Author Topic: My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex doesnt generate POIS symptoms  (Read 13978 times)

FernandoPOIS

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  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
I am a physiotherapist and have had university disciplines such as biology, biochemistry, biophysics, physiology, pathology and pharmacology. I have postgraduate courses in spinal treatment, but I have spinal problems since I was 19 because of my height (190 cm) and weak muscle structure in my spine. Surely this led me to study about this, but I never thought I might suffer from something related to orgasm.

If we have exacerbated allergic symptoms when we have an orgasm, I might say we have a small anaphylaxis. The treatment for anaphylaxis is injectable adrenaline. In this way we can say that an antihistamine associated with pseudoephedrine would be a good idea to contain our symptoms. It worked for me when I used Allegra D and had almost 100% reduction of symptoms. Read about anaphylaxis, symptoms and treatment and draw your conclusions.

Regular sex does not lead me to POIS symptoms. I had POIS with normal sex only once and it was after a stressful event that made me very upset due to family issues.
What would be the probable theory of the fact that normal sex does not cause me symptoms:
1) During normal sex, we are with the whole body with blood circulating, and erection is stronger and the genital region also shows more blood circulating in the place. It may be that the barrel through which the sperm passes is larger in size and thus irritates less the barrel (in case this is the problem that leads to the picture). This is why some people benefit from the effect of Niacin, which is a vasodilator. Doses of 200 mg are already enough to cause the flush in some people. I tried Niacin once and did not like the effect. It caused me a lot of anxiety and a bad feeling in my chest.
2) Respiratory pattern is different: During normal sex, we breathe more deeply to be able to carry blood to most muscles of the body, since we use practically all the muscles during the act. Breathing plays a key role in the functioning of the vagus nerve which is largely responsible for the body's inflammatory/allergic response. That is, a vagus nerve functioning well does not respond abnormally to the probable stimuli that require response. --> https://youtu.be/NTBYjjPEygM
3) Body movement: During normal sex we move a lot. Body movement also releases the vagus nerve and increases circulation in all muscles.

   Looking at the photo of the profile and some others pictures on Facebook Group (POIS) I noticed that we most have:
--> Bad posture, weakness of the deep flexor muscles of the neck, forward head posture, weakness of rhomboids and trapezius, upper body part (trunk) small relative to the legs, anterior pelvic tilt (which is caused by weakness of the abdominals and gluteus and shortening of hip flexors).
--> Insufficient connective tissue. Causes delay in drainage of catabolites. Treatment for deficiency of connective tissue: Vitamin C, collagen and anti oxidants. I believe that a good diet can maintain what is necessary but a supplement can help. Since it has no cure, it would have to take the supplements for the rest of its life.

To evaluate the posture of each of the Forum POISCENTER, I posted on another topic a request to evaluate the posture through photos of the participants --> https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2718.0

   As a physiotherapist, I conclude that most would have great improvements in symptoms if do postural treatment, aerobic exercise and depression/anxiety treatment.
 - Strengthened the weak muscles and release the tight ones associated with deep respiratory exercises. Nowadays we spend a lot of time in front of the computer or with our heads down with our cell phone. This greatly worsens our posture leading to the picture described above. That is, we have a bad genetics and even worse this part, we do not take care of the posture.
 - The question of the vagus nerve is not only related to a moment of pain in the spine. If you have weakness of the deep flexors of the neck and rhomboids, shortening of pectorals and latissimus dorsi you take your spine to a position that forces your breath and at the same time the forehead posture compresses the cranial canal through which the vagus nerve. You have to relax the deep muscles of neck and spine, and after that you have to do a postural reeducation. Pectoral stretch and latissimus. But to get results you need to consult a physiotherapist who will do this scientifically and correctly, not only with youtube videos. There will be a great improvement even in your energy during the day and a good posture also improves the corporal consciousness and this leads to a psychological improvement.
That is a two way path. If you can control the central nervous system will improve the muscles. But the opposite also works. If you improve the muscular part you get improvement in the central nervous system and also the autonomic nervous system.
In my POIS (masturbation) symptoms are 90% smaller if I have no pain in the spine / neck the day I have orgasm.
 - Aerobic exercise (preferably running or swimming): Decreases the tension in the trapezius because it directs the respiration to the lower abdomen. With the improvement of the respiratory pattern we have an improvement of the work of the vagus nerve.
It improves blood flow in the region of the lower limbs and pelvis including perineum region.
It improves blood circulation in the rib cage by relaxing all the muscles of the trunk.
Improvement of the venous return, lymphatic drainage of the whole body, reduction of catabolites (products accumulated in the tissues).
 - Depression also increases muscle tension in the neck. We contract the muscles of the place as an instinct for survival. The opposite is also true. The weakness of the neck muscles tend to lead to emotional insecurity. Several theories mainly related to Germanic Medicine and Biological Reading describe these clinical pictures related to muscular conditions. So it is important to treat Anxiety and/or depression. Try the safest way, using anti-depressants and anxiolytics that do not cause as much dependence and make withdrawal easy. I would recommend Zoloft (Sertraline) because it is better known and has fewer side effects.

Chronic inflammatory conditions: Following the report of most of the members of the forum, it is clear that we all have a chronic inflammatory condition that appeared before, or after, the symptoms of POIS. In my case are the pains in the spine that comes to me every day. The parasympathetic nervous system is responsible for reestablishing our bodily functions after orgasm. The problem is that this system is very tired due to its constant work in combating this chronic inflammation and ends up acting in a deregulated way and generating all the symptoms we know of exacerbated immune response.

Long time in sitting position, reduces noradrenaline production by 70%. The body understands that it does not need this hormone and starts to produce it in smaller quantity. Because dopamine is precursor to naradrenaline, this system understands that it is not necessary to produce dopamine as well. The reduction of noradrenaline and dopamine are cause for discouragement. Chronic discouragement leads to depression.
--> Stand up and move, this will increase the amount of neurotransmitters.
--> Standing position strengthens the glutes, muscles of the perineum and spine!

Thinking about the anatomy of the Vagus Nerve, it is evident that the movement of the trunk region is necessary for good health and slip of this nerve.
The physical therapy postural treatment promotes a stretching and strengthening of all the structures through which this nerve traverses.
The aerobic exercises promote the Neural Mobilization of this nerve causing that the respiratory movements of the thorax lodge and contract this nerve as it happens the movement of the diaphragm muscle.
About the technique called Neural Mobilization:
The main function of the Nervous System is the conduction of impulses; however, this is extremely dependent on the mechanical part of this system. It is not for the Nervous System to only drive impulses by means of great amplitudes and complexities of motion, but also to adapt mechanically to these movements, to retract and to lengthen itself, being able to even limit these amplitudes in certain combinations of movements. When this is altered, what is called Adverse Neural Tension occurs, which consists of an abnormal mechanical and physiological response when the normal amplitude of the Nervous System and its elongation capacity are tested. The proper activity of the Nervous System depends on its integrity. The impairment of the mechanics and physiology of the Nervous System may result in other dysfunctions of the nervous system as well as of the musculoskeletal structures that receive its innervation.
Neural Mobilization is a technique that aims to restore the movement and elasticity of the Nervous System, which promotes the return to normal functions and the reduction of the symptomatic picture. Although Neural Mobilization is not widely known, this idea of applying mechanical treatment to neural tissue is not new. Principles and methods of neural elongation already existed since the year 1800 and progressively.
Considering that Adverse Neural Tension is one of the factors that limits movement, it is presumed that its resolution or decrease through Neural Mobilization would result in a better neural dynamics and, consequently, would allow a greater range of motion.
Neural Mobilization has been used in the treatment of the most diverse pathologies of the nervous system, as well as of the dysfunctions of the tissues innervated by it.
Researches have been developed with the objective of evaluating the efficacy of Neural Mobilization as a method of diagnosis and treatment in the most varied dysfunctions affecting this system and the structures innervated by it.....http://www.scielo.br/pdf/fm/v24n4/10.pdf

 ---> When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is directly related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine.

After treating all kinds of infection I believe we should suppress the exacerbated activity of the immune system. We are dealing with an abnormal immune reaction that leads to symptoms that affect the whole body. Suppression should be done only to contain the symptoms because suppression every day (with corticosteroids for example) will make us susceptible to other diseases without mentioning the side effects. I also believe in the issue of serotonin but there are many men with serotonin deficiency who do not have POIS.

I believe that many of the supplements presented here by members can lead to improvement. I will consult a doctor specialized in supplements and take the necessary tests to evaluate my need for minerals, herbs and vitamins.

We do not know exctaly the cause of POIS, but we can handle the symptoms to have a more comfortable life.

POIS Rescue Treatment - Anti Anaphilaxis treatment (Made by myself after 6 months of research and 9 years suffering)
All these medications are safe, often even used by children for allergy treatments. We can try one or everything together! Talk to your Doctor. My last POIS symptoms I cured just using Allegra D and Coffee.

 1) Before de O: Take orange juice with beets (energy and vasodilator)

 2) After the O:

It will depend on the sitomas that are usually more prominent in each individual.

 - Bricanyl: (terbutaline) 20 ml if you have 80 kg (weight). Adrenergic b2 agonist. Relaxes the trachea and bronchi and increases adrenaline -->>        decrease the allergic effect. Use if you have a cough or shortness of breath.
 - Dramamine + Vit B6: Anti Histamine H1 and decreased vertigo. Less sedative effect compared to normal Dramamine.
 - Fenergan (Prometazine): antihistamine with effects on the central nervous system (sedative). Take the night to have a better sleep.
 - Allegra D: Anti Histamine H1 (Fexofenadine) and (pseudoephedrine) constrictor vessel: Decreases coryza and stimulates Central Nervous System.     Pseudoephedrine estimulates adrenaline -->> descrease allergy
 - Buscopan (Scopolamine): Anti-muscarinic and anticholinergic. Decreases the effects of excess acetylcholine.
 - Caffeine: Improves muscle tone and cognition. Take this when you wake up in the morning.
 - Ranitidine (Anti Histamine): take if you feel discomfort in the stomach like nausea or pain.
 - Taurine (Before and after the O): Mental and physical energy.
 - Arcalion (Sulbutiamine): Stimulate the central nervous system and reduce fatigue.
 - Vit B 12: Improvement of the nervous conduction and energy.
 - Passionflower and chamomile to try to lessen anxiety. Tea or pills.
 - Dipirone: generally help by inhibiting prostaglandins and the inflammatory response of pain.


I hope to be contributing to improve everyone's lives. I believe we can win this battle and thus lead a more comfortable life.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 08:46:24 AM by FernandoPOIS »
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Observer

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Hello Fernando and welcome to the forum! These are very interesting thoughts.

I definitely have experienced a great relief with meditation and niacin. It seems that controlling your breathing is also a key issue.

It was shown that niacin blocks the conversion of noradrenaline (good hormone, makes you happy) to adrenaline (too much adrenaline can cause cascading and debilitating effects and trigger the release of cortisol afterwards: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/understanding-the-stress-response . Some effects will then ensue: brain fog, depression, impaired cognition,etc), and it could be stopping POIS from happening in the first place.

I would like to know what you think about this theory:

Ive got a theory here, that might explain alot of symptoms of POIS, and why niacin/continual vitamin b complex supplmentation is working for alot of us. To make it short, POIS could be a debilitating reaction to a massive adrenaline surge during orgasm. This reaction can last for DAYS, yes days. Hyperadrenergic disrorders are different from just plain stress/anxiety, in that it really is an overload of pure adrenaline coursing through your veins that can be caused by orgasm, eating, running, etc. Many patients who have hyperadrenergic POTS, report that it can sometimes take days to recover from an adrenaline surge episode, and the symtpoms include dizziness, brain fog, muscle pain, palpitations, dry mouth, digestive problems....

And guess what vitamin b3 has been shown to be really good for??? thats right, adrenaline surges... Look at this quote, "Accordingly, they decided to use high doses of niacin, another natural methyl acceptor, to reduce the conversion rate of noradrenaline to adrenaline and then to adrenochrome. Double-blind controlled experiments conducted on acute schizophrenics with high doses of niacin (usually 3 to 6 g daily) were very successful, outperforming the then conventional treatments and reducing suicide rates.26 Niacin can lower the body's production of adrenochrome and its derivatives."-Dr. Abram Hoffer, MD, FRCP (C) and Dr. Harold D. Foster, PhD, Feel Better, Live Longer with Vitamin B-3

As to how Niacin could be specifically working for this problem: Niacin is a known methylacceptor(it grabs and steals methyl groups). Adrenaline is made from norepinephrine by the addiion of a methyl group. Therefore the niacin protection could be clocking the conversion of norepinephrine to adrenaline, protecting people from the adrenaline surge, and also probably preventing a relative defieincy in noreinephirine( a neutotransmittor heavily involved with depression, lack of concentration, brain fog, etc, if there is a lack of it).

In sum, the vast majority of us could be dealing with a hyperadrenaline episode during orgasm, which can last for days, and which would make a lot of sense as to why niacin works for up to several hours(its blocking the massive adrenaline surge).


https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=508.0

Best Regards,

swell

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This is very interesting.  I relate to a lot you say.  I am also 190cm (6ft 2.5in) and my upper body/chest is abnormally small like that of a 5ft person and I'm very conscious of this.  I have not had sex but somehow I believe you that normal sex 'might' not cause POIS.  I strongly do believe out of experience impaired blood circulation has to do something with POIS.  Since childhood I have breathing issues and get out of breath after only running a short distance.  I thought maybe my chest organs are too small as well and there ability to support the ejaculatory process need may not be sufficient.

Questions for you or others:
1. You refer to a 'picture'.  What are you talking about.  I dont see a picture in your post or any link.
2.  I take daily Adderall (which is supposed to potently increase dopamine and 'norepinephrine').  I have started Niacin 500mg recently.  Didn't know that Niacin blocks 'norepinephrine/noradrenaline'.  Does that mean Adderall is not currently working for half its functions?
3.  What is POIS Rescue Pump - anti anaphylaxis treatment???  Could you give some links or talk more.
4.  Your stack does not address the skin effects of POIS.  Maybe you dont have them?

I am a physiotherapist and have had university disciplines such as biology, biochemistry, biophysics, physiology, pathology and pharmacology. I have postgraduate courses in spinal treatment, but I have spinal problems since I was 19 because of my height (190 cm) and weak muscle structure in my spine. Surely this led me to study about this, but I never thought I might suffer from something related to orgasm.

If we have exacerbated allergic symptoms when we have an orgasm, I might say we have a small anaphylaxis. The treatment for anaphylaxis is injectable adrenaline. In this way we can say that an antihistamine associated with pseudoephedrine would be a good idea to contain our symptoms. It worked for me when I used Allegra D and had almost 100% reduction of symptoms. Read about anaphylaxis, symptoms and treatment and draw your conclusions.

Regular sex does not lead me to POIS symptoms. I had POIS with normal sex only once and it was after a stressful event that made me very upset due to family issues.
What would be the probable theory of the fact that normal sex does not cause me symptoms:
1) During normal sex, we are with the whole body with blood circulating, and erection is stronger and the genital region also shows more blood circulating in the place. It may be that the barrel through which the sperm passes is larger in size and thus irritates less the barrel (in case this is the problem that leads to the picture). This is why some people benefit from the effect of Niacin, which is a vasodilator. Doses of 200 mg are already enough to cause the flush in some people. I tried Niacin once and did not like the effect. It caused me a lot of anxiety and a bad feeling in my chest.
2) Respiratory pattern is different: During normal sex, we breathe more deeply to be able to carry blood to most muscles of the body, since we use practically all the muscles during the act. Breathing plays a key role in the functioning of the vagus nerve which is largely responsible for the body's inflammatory/allergic response. That is, a vagus nerve functioning well does not respond abnormally to the probable stimuli that require response.
3) Body movement: During normal sex we move a lot. Body movement also releases the vagus nerve and increases circulation in all muscles.

   Looking at the photo of the profile e some others pictures on Facebook Group (POIS) I noticed that we most have: bad posture, weakness of the deep flexor muscles of the neck, forehead posture, weakness of rhomboids and trapezius, upper body part (trunk) small relative to the legs, anterior pelvic tilt (which is caused by weakness of the abdominals and gluteus and shortening of hip flexors).
   As a physiotherapist, I conclude that most would have great improvements in symptoms if do postural treatment, aerobic exercise and depression/anxiety treatment.
 - Strengthened the weak muscles and release the tight ones associated with deep respiratory exercises. Nowadays we spend a lot of time in front of the computer or with our heads down with our cell phone. This greatly worsens our posture leading to the picture described above. That is, we have a bad genetics and even worse this part if we do not take care of the posture.
 - The question of the vagus nerve is not only related to a moment of pain in the spine. If you have weakness of the deep flexors of the neck and rhomboids, shortening of pectorals and latissimus dorsi you take your spine to a position that forces your breath and at the same time the forehead posture compresses the cranial canal through which the vagus nerve. You have to relax the deep muscles of neck and spine, and after that you have to do a postural reeducation. Pectoral stretch and latissimus. But to get results you need to consult a physiotherapist who will do this scientifically and correctly, not only with youtube videos. There will be a great improvement even in your energy during the day and a good posture also improves the corporal consciousness and this leads to a psychological improvement.
That is a two way path. If you can control the central nervous system will improve the muscles. But the opposite also works. If you improve the muscular part you get improvement in the central nervous system and also the autonomic nervous system.
In my POIS (masturbation) symptoms are 90% smaller if I have no pain in the spine / neck the day I have orgasm.
 - Aerobic exercise (preferably running or swimming): Decreases the tension in the trapezius because it directs the respiration to the lower abdomen. With the improvement of the respiratory pattern we have an improvement of the work of the vagus nerve.
It improves blood flow in the region of the lower limbs and pelvis including perineum region.
It improves blood circulation in the rib cage by relaxing all the muscles of the trunk.
 - Depression also increases muscle tension in the neck. We contract the muscles of the place as an instinct for survival. The opposite is also true. The weakness of the neck muscles tend to lead to emotional insecurity. Several theories mainly related to Germanic Medicine and Biological Reading describe these clinical pictures related to muscular conditions. So it is important to treat Anxiety and/or depression. Try the safest way, using anti-depressants and anxiolytics that do not cause as much dependence and make withdrawal easy. I would recommend Zoloft (Sertraline) because it is better known and has fewer side effects.

 ---> When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is directly related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine.

After treating all kinds of infection I believe we should suppress the exacerbated activity of the immune system. We are dealing with an abnormal immune reaction that leads to symptoms that affect the whole body. Suppression should be done only to contain the symptoms because suppression every day (with corticosteroids for example) will make us susceptible to other diseases without mentioning the side effects. I also believe in the issue of serotonin but there are many men with serotonin deficiency who do not have POIS.

I believe that many of the supplements presented here by members can lead to improvement. I will consult a doctor specialized in supplements and take the necessary tests to evaluate my need for minerals, herbs and vitamins.

We do not know exctaly the cause of POIS, but we can handle the symptoms to have a more comfortable life.

We can try one or everything together! Talk to your Doctor.
My last POIS symptoms I cured just using Allegra D and Coffee.

POIS Rescue Pump - Anti Anaphilaxis treatment (Made by myself after 6 months of research and 9 years suffering)

All these medications are safe, often even used by children for allergy treatments.

 1) Before de O: orange juice with beets (energy and vasodilator)

 2) After the O:
 - Bricanyl: (terbutaline) 20 ml w / 80 kg. Adrenergic b2 agonist. Relaxes the trachea and bronchi and increases adrenaline by decreasing the allergic effect.
 - Dramamine + Vit B6: Anti Histamine H1 and decreased vertigo. Less sedative effect compared to normal Dramamine.
 - Allegra D: Anti Histamine H1 (Fexofenadine) and (pseudoephedrine) constrictor vessel: Decreases coryza and stimulates Central Nervous System.
 - Caffeine: Anticholinesterase. Improves muscle tone.
 - Huperzine A: Anti cholinesterase improves cognition.
 - Taurine (Before and after the O): Mental and physical energy.
 - Arcalion (Sulbutiamine): Stimulate the central nervous system and reduce fatigue.
 - Citoneurin: Improvement of the nervous conduction.
 - Passionflower and chamomile to try to lessen anxiety. Tea or pills.

I hope to be contributing to improve everyone's lives. I believe we can win this battle and thus lead a more comfortable life.


« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 11:21:26 PM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

DEANNX

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hi op, does your symptoms include unable to gain weight, losing fat on your skins especially facial skins, and sagging face???do you find only sex but not masturbating help?

thanks

Nas

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Hello Fernando and welcome to the forum! These are very interesting thoughts.

I definitely have experienced a great relief with meditation and niacin. It seems that controlling your breathing is also a key issue.

It was shown that niacin blocks the conversion of noradrenaline (good hormone, makes you happy) to adrenaline (too much adrenaline can cause cascading and debilitating effects and trigger the release of cortisol afterwards: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/understanding-the-stress-response . Some effects will then ensue: brain fog, depression, impaired cognition,etc), and it could be stopping POIS from happening in the first place.

I would like to know what you think about this theory:

Ive got a theory here, that might explain alot of symptoms of POIS, and why niacin/continual vitamin b complex supplmentation is working for alot of us. To make it short, POIS could be a debilitating reaction to a massive adrenaline surge during orgasm. This reaction can last for DAYS, yes days. Hyperadrenergic disrorders are different from just plain stress/anxiety, in that it really is an overload of pure adrenaline coursing through your veins that can be caused by orgasm, eating, running, etc. Many patients who have hyperadrenergic POTS, report that it can sometimes take days to recover from an adrenaline surge episode, and the symtpoms include dizziness, brain fog, muscle pain, palpitations, dry mouth, digestive problems....

And guess what vitamin b3 has been shown to be really good for??? thats right, adrenaline surges... Look at this quote, "Accordingly, they decided to use high doses of niacin, another natural methyl acceptor, to reduce the conversion rate of noradrenaline to adrenaline and then to adrenochrome. Double-blind controlled experiments conducted on acute schizophrenics with high doses of niacin (usually 3 to 6 g daily) were very successful, outperforming the then conventional treatments and reducing suicide rates.26 Niacin can lower the body's production of adrenochrome and its derivatives."-Dr. Abram Hoffer, MD, FRCP (C) and Dr. Harold D. Foster, PhD, Feel Better, Live Longer with Vitamin B-3

As to how Niacin could be specifically working for this problem: Niacin is a known methylacceptor(it grabs and steals methyl groups). Adrenaline is made from norepinephrine by the addiion of a methyl group. Therefore the niacin protection could be clocking the conversion of norepinephrine to adrenaline, protecting people from the adrenaline surge, and also probably preventing a relative defieincy in noreinephirine( a neutotransmittor heavily involved with depression, lack of concentration, brain fog, etc, if there is a lack of it).

In sum, the vast majority of us could be dealing with a hyperadrenaline episode during orgasm, which can last for days, and which would make a lot of sense as to why niacin works for up to several hours(its blocking the massive adrenaline surge).


https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=508.0

Best Regards,

A very nice theory Observer. But I wonder how does that lead to inflammation in the brain ?

FernandoPOIS

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  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
Hello Observer

About Niacina:
I am 36 years and I have POIS since 2009. I started looking for treatment and researching possible causes only this year. Prior to this period I considered POISP to be a column problem related to the autonomic nervous system. Without researching, I just avoided what made my symptoms worse. I realized that when I was without spinal pain, my symptoms were much smaller. In February of this year, I had a very strong crisis with severe spinal pain, cognitive, respiratory symptoms and I was very depressed mainly in the first 2 days. The symptoms lasted 6 days. After this crisis I decided to start researching.
Since I am married, I have 4 sexual relations a month, I can stay without masturbating. In this way, I end up not developing POIS symptoms since they only appear with masturbation. But I understand how difficult it is for those who do not have a fixed partner. In this way, I have not used any medication to prevent POIS.
About what you have described about niacin, I believe I can help many men, but I have also seen many reports that it is not helping some others. I do not know if each responds to a different dose. I believe everything that helps in dilation vas in the period before orgasm should help. And contrary to this, I believe that in order to contain the symptoms of POIS we must use medicines that make the vessel constricted.
The adrenaline being released in a chronic manner promotes generalized constriction vessel and I believe our genital region should suffer from this condition. This is probably the source of POIS.
We should also consider that this chronic constriction vessel caused by stress, anxiety or other condition (perhaps muscle or connective tissue) may also be interfering with the moment of recovery after orgasm.
I believe that medications that work to improve noradrenaline like antidepressants or beta / alpha blockers should help reduce stress. I do not make use because I am the type of person who always tries less aggressive methods of treatment. I do not like the side effects of these drugs in the short term. In the long run I have also read things that scares me, especially about the weaning of antidepressants related to noradrenaline (Duloxetine for example). People who use these medicines suffer a lot at the time of stopping treatment and have symptoms such as dizziness, severe headaches and panic syndrome. I would only recommend it in the latter case.
To improve our body's relationship with Adrenaline I prefer to try meditation, aerobic exercise and stress management with activities that give us pleasure even with a little alcohol.

Hello Swell

1. The photo that I refer to is in the Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1457009341209480/
See the photo of each one and identify the characteristics that I mentioned.
2. I do not believe that Adderall works based on reports from several members. I have little knowledge about the beneficial effects of this medication.
3. The POIS rescue pump is the treatment (medicines and suplements) that I proposed to diminish the effects (symptoms) after the orgasm. Containment of the anaphylactic symptoms that this allergic reaction causes in our body.
4. I have no skin symptoms. But I believe anti-allergy medications also help in this case.

Hello DEANNX

I have a hard gaining weight and I lose fat very easily. I have little muscle mass, circulatory problems in the lower limbs. My veins are weak in the whole body. I've had varicose veins surgery and I'm already developing varicose veins in my arms. My face is also a bit flabby as I believe it is from the majority who suffer from POIS (from what I saw in the photos in the Facebook group). Another relevant information is that I always get purple on my skin with anything I hit. if I hit my hip at a table I'll have a huge purple spot. It is a problem of connective tissue that has no treatment. My condition is similar to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome but I do not have this condition. I have been to several doctors who have told me that I only have weaker connective tissue but do not have a set of symptoms that indicate a disease.
I believe that this connective tissue problem is a condition related to some specific species of the human race as indigenous people since in Chile many presents Ehlers-Danlos. By the biotype we also found these traits in habitants of India, China and Mongolia. From what I noticed in the group of Facebook many who have POIS have thin neck, face with prominent cheeks and forehead. These characteristics show that we have little muscle mass and weakness of the postural musculature.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:37:46 PM by Fernando from Brazil »
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Hopeoneday

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Hi fernando. All i can tell you that my father is 75 years old and he still play socker 1 times a week, smoke tobaco from his 10 year old(read 65 years tobaco), i allways saying to him that he is born with cigarete i his mouth. I so him hundreds of time how he spit tobaco reside from lungs.  He can eat alien( yes alien) an dont evan single burp after that. Wehen he want sleap , you can coutn to 10 he is sleapeng all redy(evan after full stomach of food) In his 75fife he work all day around house etc...
He is perfectly helty.





Dr-pois.

FernandoPOIS

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  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
Hi Hopeoneday

I tell you the same thing. My father has an excellent health condition at 65 years of age. He has no scoliosis and no connective tissue problem. But unfortunately my physical trait is similar to the men in my mother's family.
I did not say that my theory about POIS is conditioned to genetic factors, and everyone who suffers from the problem has the same characteristics. I believe that most of us (not all) are suffering from POIS because of muscle weakness and poor connective tissue associated with a sedentary lifestyle (sitting in front of a computer weakening all postural muscles and producing little norepinephrine, endorphins and serotonin ).
Many who suffer from the problem have good muscle status and good posture, but this will only be possible with a study where all patients with the problem are evaluated. Here in the Forum I can not see the physical characteristic of each one. As I mentioned in the post, my ideas are based on the photos I saw on Facebook in a POIS discussion group. Along with this idea (or theory) is added the fact that I present the biotype very similar to those I saw there on Facebook.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

DEANNX

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Do you lose weight and fat only after masturbation????Does sex also affect your fat gain and muscle weakness?

Observer

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Hello Fernando and welcome to the forum! These are very interesting thoughts.

I definitely have experienced a great relief with meditation and niacin. It seems that controlling your breathing is also a key issue.

It was shown that niacin blocks the conversion of noradrenaline (good hormone, makes you happy) to adrenaline (too much adrenaline can cause cascading and debilitating effects and trigger the release of cortisol afterwards: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/understanding-the-stress-response . Some effects will then ensue: brain fog, depression, impaired cognition,etc), and it could be stopping POIS from happening in the first place.

I would like to know what you think about this theory:

Ive got a theory here, that might explain alot of symptoms of POIS, and why niacin/continual vitamin b complex supplmentation is working for alot of us. To make it short, POIS could be a debilitating reaction to a massive adrenaline surge during orgasm. This reaction can last for DAYS, yes days. Hyperadrenergic disrorders are different from just plain stress/anxiety, in that it really is an overload of pure adrenaline coursing through your veins that can be caused by orgasm, eating, running, etc. Many patients who have hyperadrenergic POTS, report that it can sometimes take days to recover from an adrenaline surge episode, and the symtpoms include dizziness, brain fog, muscle pain, palpitations, dry mouth, digestive problems....

And guess what vitamin b3 has been shown to be really good for??? thats right, adrenaline surges... Look at this quote, "Accordingly, they decided to use high doses of niacin, another natural methyl acceptor, to reduce the conversion rate of noradrenaline to adrenaline and then to adrenochrome. Double-blind controlled experiments conducted on acute schizophrenics with high doses of niacin (usually 3 to 6 g daily) were very successful, outperforming the then conventional treatments and reducing suicide rates.26 Niacin can lower the body's production of adrenochrome and its derivatives."-Dr. Abram Hoffer, MD, FRCP (C) and Dr. Harold D. Foster, PhD, Feel Better, Live Longer with Vitamin B-3

As to how Niacin could be specifically working for this problem: Niacin is a known methylacceptor(it grabs and steals methyl groups). Adrenaline is made from norepinephrine by the addiion of a methyl group. Therefore the niacin protection could be clocking the conversion of norepinephrine to adrenaline, protecting people from the adrenaline surge, and also probably preventing a relative defieincy in noreinephirine( a neutotransmittor heavily involved with depression, lack of concentration, brain fog, etc, if there is a lack of it).

In sum, the vast majority of us could be dealing with a hyperadrenaline episode during orgasm, which can last for days, and which would make a lot of sense as to why niacin works for up to several hours(its blocking the massive adrenaline surge).


https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=508.0

Best Regards,

A very nice theory Observer. But I wonder how does that lead to inflammation in the brain ?

Why are we sure that we have "inflammation" in the brain? The simple depletion of some neurotransmitters can cause this feeling of fogginess and depression. I do not know if this same lack (or excessive production) of neurotransmitters can cause inflammation in the brain... It seems that some scientists are saying that some states of the brain (depression, schizophrenia, OCD) are caused by brain inflammation, then we cannot rule out this hypothesis.

However, the most important thing is what causes this "brain inflammation" or these symptoms. In my opinion, it is caused by an overactivation of the sympathetic system during the Orgasm, which triggers a release of adrenaline and depletes the nor-adrenaline. It should not be that way, after the Orgasm it is the para-sympathetic system (the one that calms you down) the one that should work (or at least, it does it in 99.9% of men out there).

An activation of the sympathetic system (flight or fight) causes non-vital organs to shut down, as they are no longer vital for your ultimate survival. This can explain other systemic symptoms that occur during POIS.

In my opinion, the decrease in Heart Rate Variability (the only conclussion we got from the POIS study before it was cancelled) points to a sympathetic system activation and a abnormal response during the Orgasm.

The function of the Autonomic Nervous System (sympathetic -vs- parasympathetic) is measured via something called HRV (Heart Rate Variability).  Also known as 'Cycle Length Variability,' this simple test has been the standard for determining the state of the Autonomic Nervous System (Parasympathetic -vs- Sympathetic) for decades, both in mainstream medicine and alternative medicine (DR. ROYAL LEE was a big advocate).  Heart Rate Variability is simply the variability or difference between the peeks seen on an EKG.  Bear in mind that this is not a measurement of a variation on the height of the peeks (intensity of the heart beat), but in the distance between the peeks (frequency). 

In other words, Heart Rate Variability measures one's ability to rapidly (milliseconds) increase or decrease one's pulse rate in response to stress or changes in environment.  Just remember that the faster your body can vary your rate (high variability) is good, indicating you lean toward the parasympathetic side of things.  Likewise, a low variability indicates Sympathetic Dominance (see EKG above for example of HRV).


http://www.doctorschierling.com/blog/sympathetic-dominance-low-heart-rate-variability-and-your-ill-health

I have been experiencing with breathing control methods besides niacin (I guess you should do it right, if you want more info, feel free to PM me) and have been getting good results (I think there was a COLM's post about it), so it might be possible to control this response in some way.

FernandoPOIS

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  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
DEANNX

What happens is that due to nausea I end up eating less and in this way I get a little slimmer, but I recover the hunger as the symptoms are getting less intense. After normal sex this does not happen because I do not have POIS symptoms.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Nas

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Thank you for the explanation Ovserver.
But you're right; I can't prove that we have brain inflammation without testing, but the claim is based on the fact that it's how brain fog usually occurs. Plus the non-activation of certain neurotransmitters in fight or flight situation seems far stretched IMO, given how I usually focus more when I'm in an adrenaline rush.

Also Niacin didn't work for me really and I'm open to try your breathing technique but I'm not very hopeful about it.

I personally believe in a immunological-neurological explanation to POIS. But I guess untill we can prove that POISers have brain inflammation your theory is as valid as mine.

I did uploaded my brain scan here but no one seemed to have analyzed it to confirm or deny it. The doctor that I did the scan with denied that but it was a vague denial; I didn't trust his opinion especially when he was busy, he looked at the graph quickly and when I told him I didn't want an anti-depression drug he perscribed it to me anyways.

FernandoPOIS

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NAS

We do not need to have an inflammation in the brain to feel the effects of POIS. The symptoms of POIS are an allergic reaction.
Severe desecadated allergy (almost an anaphylaxis)
Of course depending on the state of each there will be a greater amount of symptom in a certain area of the body.

What are the symptoms of a severe allergic reaction?

generalised flushing of the skin
nettle rash (hives) anywhere on the body
sense of impending doom
swelling of throat and mouth
difficulty in swallowing or speaking
alterations in heart rate
severe asthma
abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting
sudden feeling of weakness (drop in blood pressure)
collapse and unconsciousness
A patient would not necessarily experience all of these symptoms in the same episode.

https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/hcp/what-is-anaphylaxis/signs-and-symptoms/
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Hopeoneday

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Fernando, thouse cervical pain in spine  is one of the key to some of  as poisers.
I fell like a felling that something in my spyne liqued is diturbed and cant work properly, neurotransmiters cant fire and recieve normal, when i destroyed by pois, those pain can last 20 to 30 days sometimes, get stiffed chest muscules and than life became like hell, in thouse period of time i am so weak because my nerws sistem is destroyed.
In thouse period of times i cant evan light exercise because my body cant respond to my will power and i get respiratory suppresion and colapsing , risking heart atac or strouke.
I alwas go to my hand on my spine and i wish if i could rip of "that thing from my spine("Inflamation").
I am 2 meter tall, when i am out of pois the peple are scared of me, but when i am in pois, thay feell my weaknes, a womens specualy(when i am in pois, womes thinks that they can say to me whot ewer they want because fell my weaknes).
About posture, weak muscules, bad habits sitery style etc...i know dozzents of people who looks like "RODNY" , a litle stronger wind bllu them owey-BUT- they dont hawe a pois.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 01:50:42 PM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

FernandoPOIS

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  • 37 year old. POIS Since I was 28. Vagus Nerve Heal
HOPEONEDAY

Try to heal your Spine!

The vagus nerve originates in the cerebral bulb, inside the skull, and exits at the base of the head, the jugular foramen (along with the jugular vein) and travels the neck bilaterally, down the thorax, crossing the diaphragm, reaching the viscera. The function of the vagus nerve is to balance the autonomous system of the organism, composing the parasympathetic system. It is related, among other things, to regulation of heart rate, blood pressure, digestion, bowel functioning and regulation of the respiratory pattern.

--> The compression of the jugular foramen (space where the vagus nerve passes when it leaves the skull) is done in several ways:
1) If we breathe very shallowly (as in situations of chronic stress) you cause the neck and trapezius muscles to become tense and this leads the head to an anterior position in relation to the trunk.
2) If we have a poor posture due to weakness of the postural muscles (mainly deep neck flexors) this leads the head to an anterior position with respect to the trunk.
3) If we have tight pectoral muscles and tight latissimus dorsi muscles: This leads the head to an anterior position in relation to the trunk.
Anything that takes your head in a position forward of your shoulders (Forward Head Posture) will compress the vagus nerve at your exit.
4) Not just the output of the vagus nerve, but muscle tension throughout the nerve path also disrupts your work.

-->This is a physical finding, considered by physiotherapists, chiropractors and osteopaths. This information is not easily found on Google. In general doctos' offices you will never hear this. Traditional medicine is based on alleviating the symptom with medicines and does not seek the true cause of the problem. The most you will hear in a doctor's office is that you should do physical activity.
-->> The truth is that the science behind every physical problem lies in the hands of physiotherapists who study for years but can not put their results in scientific publications because the scientific standards do not fit into results just spoken by patients themselves. It has to be proven through blood and imaging tests.
--> The results obtained by physiotherapists are seen daily within their clinics when patients return to a new session talking about the improvements they are achieving each session. It is a difficult job that is achieved gradually every week. But the long-term result is much greater than just temporary relief from an analgesic or muscle relaxant.
I do not believe in many things like acupuncture, homeopathy and other treatments that are seen every day on the internet. I believe in physical therapy because I live this daily and since I have a posture problem, I benefit greatly from the postural treatment.

The cure for any problem of pain sensitivity, inflammatory problems and allergic problems has a direct relation to the health of the vagus nerve. I'm not saying that the cure for everything depends only on the vagus nerve, but how your body reacts to every aggressive stimulus depends on a good nerve conduction made by this nerve.

The principle of everything is you try to put your head in the same alignments of the shoulders. Begin by relaxing the tense muscles and then strengthen the deep flexors of the neck and extenor of the thoracic spine. Each physiotherapy patient has their priorities at the beginning of a treatment and only a physical therapist specialized in posture will be able to evaluate what will be the best benefit for each one. I may be passing a strengthening for you but this segment of yours is already strengthened, so we must start with another path. But if you do everything that relates to postural improvement, there will certainly be improvement.

When strengthening your deep neck flexors do not let your head fall forward. You need to shrink your chin and at the same time stretch the back of the cervical spine. If you take the head forward during this muscle contraction will not have the expected result and may even worsen the position of the head. There are several videos on YouTube that teach you how to improve this postural pattern.
Consult a physiotherapist specializing in osteopathy or a good masseur and do a deep myofascial release to relax the muscles.
After this do a treatment named Global Postural Reeducation based on the theory of Philippe Souchard.
A very important thing. It's no use doing all the exercises if we sit around all day. Some recommendations: Try to stay stand up as long as possible during the day. At home when you stop to watch TV you prefer to lie in a lying position with your legs straight. Do not mess around on the cell phone all day. Allow only a few moments for this and preferably do so with your arms resting on something high so that you remain with your head in a good alignment. This part of the cell phone I would say is already enough to reduce much of the symptoms of back pain.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

swell

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Thank you Fernando for sharing this knowledge.  I relate to somethings you say but have hard time put my head around that posture is cure for POIS.  In US we have Chiropractors they are really good and have seen them a lot.  It improve general health but nothing big change on POIS or any disease.  They do this kind of stuff - postural realignment, spinal re-alignment etc.  Physiotherapists in US are not that good.  They like doctors here dont deviate from already proven material studied in school.  You go and talk to a US doc about POIS or symptoms.  He/She will just show you door or diagnose you with hyperchondria or depression.

Where is more information on your POIS Rescue Pump?  You have a website or anything?  When I google it, I get a link to this very post.
I did try to join FB group though they did not approve me yet : )

1. The photo that I refer to is in the Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1457009341209480/
See the photo of each one and identify the characteristics that I mentioned.
2. I do not believe that Adderall works based on reports from several members. I have little knowledge about the beneficial effects of this medication.
3. The POIS rescue pump is the treatment (medicines and suplements) that I proposed to diminish the effects (symptoms) after the orgasm. Containment of the anaphylactic symptoms that this allergic reaction causes in our body.
4. I have no skin symptoms. But I believe anti-allergy medications also help in this case.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 07:38:35 PM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

FernandoPOIS

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Since I am a physiotherapist, I could not be prescribing medicines, but the ones I give are used even by children. They will not hurt anyone. I believe until it can be taken all the same day. Maybe can cause nausea, I do not know.

If you read the package leaflet for each of the medicines I put on this list you will see that they are just ways to relieve the symptoms.

For example: Antihistamines serve to decrease activity of histamine and mast cells.
Adrenergics like Brycanil and Pseudoephedrine serve to increase the adrenaline force in our body. Adrenaline is used in case of anaphylaxis, when a person who is allergic to shrimp for example eats it in a restaurant and develops more prominent allergic symptoms.
Caffeine and Huperzine are used to increase the activity of acetylcholine and thus decrease hypotonia.
Arcalion and Taurine serves to improve all types of physical and mental fatigue, whether of muscular or neurological origin.
Passion flower and Chamomile are soothing. They work for me, but many can only calm themselves with strong medicines like rivotril or other benzodiazepine.
Citoneurim is B complex High Dose used to improve nerve condition in people with problems such as herniated disc, for example.

They do not address the cause of the problem.
For me, the cure is a strong and mobile spine as an athlete or dancer. In this way the vagus nerve will do its job perfectly.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

swell

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Related questions please respond all: 
1. why is it called Orgasmic illness?.  I never had POIS on an orgasm.  I get POIS always on ejaculation.   Do others validate this experience or am I only one?
2. Once I am in POIS, I get relief from going to O. and stopping right before an E.  Has anyone else observed this???  I thought that experiencing orgasm make your body produce testesterone and maybe something else and stopping before an ejaculation helps preserve that newly produced testesterone and thus gives you a helping POIS relief.   
3.  I get POIS only on ejaculation.  I dont get POIS on pre-ejaculate (pardon me I mean: precum).  Is that true for others?
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

FernandoPOIS

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1. Do you have orgasm without ejaculation? I think it's normal to ejaculate whenever you have orgasm. Some people have had their symptoms even without ejaculating, only when one has the sensation.
2. I do not remember seeing any symptom relief comments in the way you are describing. But if it's working for you it's very good and we can try it too.
3. I think so. POIS happens whenever you have an orgasm or ejaculation. But there are also members who reported having the same symptoms coming close to the act of ejaculation. I think I read this in this forum, but I do not have to find this quote now.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

swell

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1.  Yes.  for me I viewed ejaculation as some strange disease I carried until bit recently.  I experience pois symptoms that very serious skin muscle and mental which convinced me that masturb. is  harmful.  As coping method I got habit of resisting ejaculation but experiencing the orgasm part over and over and since that does not cause any pois symptom in me it became intrinsic habit.  I will not recomend my method to anyone as it is to me a very bandaid solution and may be there is any harmful effect to body for stopping the ejaculation?.  When I research online I read conflicting views on it.  In yoga and tantra sex they encourage this behavior of stopping ejac. after experiencing orgasm and developing control on this process which I have very good, but then some medical practitioners say why would you want to stop it it is healthy to get ejaculation and maybe even harmful to stop it.  Maybe they say it because of history of stigma on this topic but I dont know.  Something terrible is happening to my body and no one understands me except this tiny forum.  I am not depressed I know it, but docs diagnose me with depression because of my this conversation.  Sorry currently I am in pois that is why so concerned.
     
2.  Post POIS, when already in pois, going for an o, does to me have a mild relief sufficient relief to be thankful but not enough to get excited.  Maybe for others since your pois is not that serious as mine it could suffice.  I dont know.   
3.  Orgasm is first step and ejaculation is second process step.  If POIS happen on orgasm step then mine is either not pois or if it is then there are even more variations to pois?

1. Do you have orgasm without ejaculation? I think it's normal to ejaculate whenever you have orgasm. Some people have had their symptoms even without ejaculating, only when one has the sensation.
2. I do not remember seeing any symptom relief comments in the way you are describing. But if it's working for you it's very good and we can try it too.
3. I think so. POIS happens whenever you have an orgasm or ejaculation. But there are also members who reported having the same symptoms coming close to the act of ejaculation. I think I read this in this forum, but I do not have to find this quote now.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:20:25 AM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA