[UPDATED:Last update May, 23rd.] Antivirals.

[Quantum]

I understand your conservatism Quantum and it is necessary so we can be more careful and critical of our findings. For me though being desperate in these last days, you don't understand how much more hopeful I've become even if it turned out not to work I'm still thankful for even having the delusion of a remedy - yes, I'm unfortunately that desperate. For us we have to be much more risk takers and crazy theorizers so we can move the status quo and try new things and build hope to keep going on.

Nas, I truly share your emotional pain, and I do hope you will continue to feel better, and will always have something to hope for, concerning POIS, that will keep you going on.   I am still affected by POIS, and been for over 40 years, and there are times I find it very heavy, even if my pre-pack makes it easier...it's not a cure, just a relief, and only if I follow many strict rules.  I still feel, me too, this emotional burden that POIS is, and my active implication on this forum has helped me a lot to do something with the years of frustrations and despair that POIS have brought into my life.   

[Muon]

Of course that is our goal. Mouns is from Germany, the one of the bests helt care on the world! And they cant help him! Whot we expect?
We must resarsh hard and use all medicine test posible and do conections.

No I'm from the Netherlands. I went to Germany because our healthcare system is f****d up. You cannot throw money at a lab for tests, everything has to go through doctors plus insurance companies. They have privatized healthcare in the Netherlands years ago and as a result doctors spending more time on paperwork than on patients and more attention went into quantity instead of quality.

There is no money for research and most doctors won't bother trying to solve it and the one that cares is being thwarted by the system. I have zero faith in doctors, I went to a top immunologist and showed the data and his words were; ''it could be anything'' ,10 mins later I was already standing outside his office without any follow up testing. Patients like me cost too much money, they won't get their hands burned.

[demografx]

...my active implication on this forum has helped me a lot to do something with the years of frustrations and despair that POIS have brought into my life.

Quantum, thank you, you have described perfectly why I’ve been involved here for 10+ years

[Hopeoneday]

Thanks a milion to mods aspeualy, Demo, Quantum..thanks for all things you was doing till now.

[demografx]

Hopeoneday, THANKS!
                           

[aswinpras06]

Acyclovir is a treatment every one can try.  If we get success then all our efforts can be diverted on, how to prevent the virus from getting active from its latent state.  I personally feel infection by some dormant virus(bacteria or fungal) is the most reasonable explanation for the symptoms we get.  If somehow it is prevented(either by antihistamines,desensitization,taurine etc) then we may get a cure.  But antivirals cannot be taken for long time and some other prevention method must be discovered to prevent the viral reactivation.

If it doesn't work, then we know that virus is not the cause for Pois.  I will try acyclovir and post within next 15-20 days.

[aswinpras06]

l-lysine and monolaurin capsules are claimed to be as effective as prescription antivirals by many natural health websites.  They can be tried safely unlike acyclovir which needs a doctor prescription and  also, requires monitoring in case of renal problems.

[Nas]

Ok so my first orgasm with Aciclovir. I took 400mg in the morning then 400 in 11:00 am. Half an hour later I orgasmed and usual symptoms apeaered : Brain fog, difficulty making full sentences, anxiety, etc.
I did notice that I was slightly more out-going than usual on POIS, and while not perfect at all. I still felt that things could've been worst. But that could be just me and not the effect of the medicin.
Overall I would say it's a failure. I might continue for perhaps a week or so and if things didn't improve the test will be  terminated.

[Hopeoneday]

Thanks Nas.

[POISrival]

Ok so my first orgasm with Aciclovir. I took 400mg in the morning then 400 in 11:00 am. Half an hour later I orgasmed and usual symptoms apeaered : Brain fog, difficulty making full sentences, anxiety, etc.
I did notice that I was slightly more out-going than usual on POIS, and while not perfect at all. I still felt that things could've been worst. But that could be just me and not the effect of the medicin.
Overall I would say it's a failure. I might continue for perhaps a week or so and if things didn't improve the test will be  terminated.

Have you taken acyclovir after orgasm?

Btw I will post updates soon. Acyclovir works like magic for me.

[Hopeoneday]

Hi Rival. keep as update , this info is pure gold for us.

[Muon]

Ok so my first orgasm with Aciclovir. I took 400mg in the morning then 400 in 11:00 am. Half an hour later I orgasmed and usual symptoms apeaered : Brain fog, difficulty making full sentences, anxiety, etc.
I did notice that I was slightly more out-going than usual on POIS, and while not perfect at all. I still felt that things could've been worst. But that could be just me and not the effect of the medicin.
Overall I would say it's a failure. I might continue for perhaps a week or so and if things didn't improve the test will be  terminated.

What if you have absorbility or motility problems? Try grinding your tablet into powder and dissolve (if possible) in lots of water at least 300 mL and flush it down. Here is some info like peak plasma concentration time window: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aciclovir#Pharmacokinetics
Perhaps a virus is vulnerable when you are in POIS mode and that could be the time window to strike at it.

Now to think of it, what if other patients have motility and absorbility problems. Perhaps they can achieve better results with the same medicine if they dissolve it and use lots of water.

[Nas]

UPDATE #1:

I still take lamivudine and Acyclovir. I notice the improvement after taking acyclovir.
I have a mind clarity that i haven't got in 10 years or with any other drugs It's not a placebo effect.

My analysis:
-one of the antivirals works. Most probably the acyclovir
-There is a dormant virus that activates according to the state of my body. Sometimes the mind disruption lasts for weeks. The more the stress i live in, the worse my pois is.
-they are all connected to eachother; my mind, my body, my immune system, my nervous system..etc. That's why many medications seem to work and seem to show improvement.

My recommendation(It's not based on any scientific or medical evidence, only based on my own experience, so it's everyone's responsibility to follow this advice, which comes from a deep sense of sympathy with everyone with whom i share the POIS misery ):

A 10 day course of an antiviral like acyclovir. 400 mg twice daily should be enough. NO orgasm during that period. Get enough sleep. You might feel fatigue with the drug. Rest and avoid stress, physical or psychological, as much as possible. get an orgasm on the 11th day and continue with acyclovir.

Hey POISer,
Glad aciclovir worked out for you!
Personally I'm yet to find any effect from the medication.
I'm following Muon's advise of grinding the tablet and dissoliving into a cup of water but that also doesn't seem to work.
This is again one of these fraustrating moments in POIS where a medication can be a renowned success for someone but have abseloutly no effect on the other.

[Muon]

UPDATE #1:

I still take lamivudine and Acyclovir. I notice the improvement after taking acyclovir.
I have a mind clarity that i haven't got in 10 years or with any other drugs It's not a placebo effect.

I'm confused POISrival. Do you still take them both or only the Acyclovir?

[romies]

I think he critical part, for defining a clear pathophysiology for POIS, is to explain how ejaculation can lead to trigger an inflammation reaction ( how can ejaculation cause a "steering problem" in the immune system function).   Even if we have some hints that DNA viruses could be implicated in POIS, we would still have to figure out what, in ejaculation, triggers the systemic symptoms we see in POIS.   It is clear that, out of POIS, most members have no particular symptoms, and are quite healthy if abstaining for long enough and have no NE.  But, in those time, those dormant viruses are still present in the body. and the immune system have them in check, in a proper way, since they do not manifest.   

Then comes ejaculation, and act on the body,  eoither on the immune system or neurological system or hormonal system, in a way that we don't know of, and cause a dysfunction to happen, somewhere in the complex machinery of the immune system.

In Nanna's hypothesis ( see above link to his post), this triggering mechanism would be linked to " a combination of high prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and low cyclic AMP ".   As seen in is diagram, the PGE2 would be the stress trigger that activates the JNK gene, which than promote demethylation of the methyl groups which were keeping the DNA viruses dormant, thus causing a reactivation of the virus, a flare up.  Usually, flare ups of DNA viruses are local manifestations, like cold sores of shingles .  I am open to this hypothesis by Nanna, but since there is, to my knowledge, no known reactivation of DNA virus leading to systemic symptoms like in POIS, this would be a first in medical science, so it is too early to conclude anything about this.   

However, I think all this discussion,  here and is Nanna's thread, is very constructive, and the more ideas we exchange, the more dynamic the discussion is, and the more we progress toward a better understanding of POIS.  And, for example, if some members get consistent results after some months of antiviral therapy, we will have made some progress.  Even if they don't have any results, we would still have made some progress.

I concur Qunatum's points here. What mediates the orgasm/ejaculation to mast-cell/IDO/TDO/COX activation is one of the biggest puzzle that I hope we can solve collectively soon, or to have testable hypothesis on.

In POIS, my hypothesis is that, rather than a "power" issue, it is rather that some regulatory mechanism is not working properly, and the system is unbalanced.  Many people have a very competent and strong immune system, far enough to prevent shingles, and to not have POIS.  I still think that there must be something more specific in POIS, there is an immune dysfunction that is not present in normal, well-functioning immune systems, no matter how "strong" they are.  As a comparison with a car, I would say that it is not the power of the engine that has to do with crashing into a tree, but a problem with the steering system of the car.  The immune system is a very, very complex system, with many different feedback loops, one controlling the other.   If there is some dysfunction somewhere in those cascades, problems occur.   If the dysfunctions of the immune system leads it to cause unwanted productions of numerous pro-inflammatory immune messengers ( cytokines, histamine, TNF alpha, etc...), you feel ill, because of this uncontrolled inflammatory reaction in your body.  Your immune system have taken a bad path, or a bad direction, somewhere along the way, because of a "steering system" issue, and the usual control feedbacks didn't prevent this immune frenzy to occur... and we crash into the POIS wall...

My position is a little bit more conservative.  For me, the presence of a chronic viral infection is one of many contributors that will cause those who are prone to POIS to get to the "critical level" needed for POIS to manifest. In this hypothesis, a bad diet with irritating chemicals and too much sugars and too few vitamins, too much emotional stress, not enough exercise, and so on, opportunistic infections, methylation issues, bad SNPs, are all contributing to POIS manifestation, by each increasing overall leve of inflammation in the body.   In this hypothesis there is, apart, from these contributing factors, one or more specific, rare factors, that makes someone prone to have POIS.  I say "rare factors", because POIS is a rare syndrome, and having a dormant DNA virus infection is not rare, eating too much sugars is endemic in Occidental diet, as well as bad diet, and, to some extent, lack of exercise, and too much stress has now been accepted as the new 'normal" in our modern society.   So, if all those contributing factors are present for almost everybody, there must be something more "rare" in order to have POIS.

I agree on these points as well. I had both shingles and cold sores in the past, but none of those episodes correlate with my POIS symptoms/episodes.

And I had this much milder form of POIS after vigorous exercise, which is closer to mast cell activation syndrome in my current understanding. 

[aswinpras06]

Here's my update on using acyclovir 400mg twice a day for 5 days.

My persistent sinus congestion has eased to a more manageable level after acyclovir.

Also a head shower, which usually brings all the symptoms of pois ( some times even worse than pois) did not happen after taking acyclovir.  Just a few minor sneezes and some fatigue which got over the next day.  No digestive problems at all, which usually happens for me after a hot head shower.

I am yet to try an orgasm because I have few important assignments next week.  Very frustrating because I could not complete my experiment with acyclovir, for pois.   I will try it later this month again.

I have an request to all friends here.   "Apart from orgasm what else causes you the same symptoms as pois."    For me an hot shower(especially on the head) can bring all the symptoms of pois without an orgasm. 

If others have similar stories it will be very useful for us to know the root cause of this.

[Muon]

Got lots of problems with triggers like heat, food, stress, fatigue, exercise you name it. This symptomatology is similar as seen in mast cell diseases.

[aswinpras06]

Hi Muon

Do you mean if you exercise,or eat a food which is not suitable for you, or if you've stress, you get the same symptoms as POIS.

[Muon]

Overlapping symptoms yes. Like a higher environmental temperature makes the body heavy (also in POIS) and gets some sort of activity going resulting in a feeling your body is getting wrecked but without pain. Another thing what heat can do is decreasing digestion which is the same POIS can do. Or joint pain as a reaction to food while POIS can cause the same joint pain. I can make an entire list of these things but haven't done yet because I get highly annoyed by the thought alone of placing this sheer amount of info on the forum.

[Hopeoneday]

Thanks aswi... Muon , my trigers the same like you.