Author Topic: Breath in a bag?  (Read 2237 times)

poiseidon

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Breath in a bag?
« on: February 18, 2015, 04:11:23 AM »
For some reason I recently tried to breath in a paper bag for half a minute. Full POIS at the time.
I thought that it would make POIS worse due to oxygen deprivation. I felt instead a calm, warm and more importantly lucid state. Time slowed down, vision got less blurry, face muscle relaxed a bit and thoughts became sharper and deeper (in term of concentration) while I was still breathing. The last breath, that's the one than I held in my lungs for a good 10/15 seconds feeling a pleasant and sparkling pressure on my sinuses, which have been highly affected by my latest amazing years with POIS.

Now the question is, does anybody experience this after trying? Are there any real danger on doing that in the long run? Would this give some insight on POIS or on symptoms treatment?
After spending loads on supplements I found out that the only thing that works is abstinence. Full stop. And it's free.
Meditation if done correctly is great too.
Also avoiding computers produce faster recoveries and fewer temptations.

demografx

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Re: Breath in a bag?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 11:36:58 AM »
Hi, poiseidon. We're getting closer to that POIS Island Retreat you proposed a while back :)

What prompted you in the first place to do the bag/breathing experiment? For POIS-testing?

Demo


10 years of major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.

Quantum

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Re: Breath in a bag vs breath exercises and meditation
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 11:54:31 AM »
Hi Poiseidon,

Breathing in a paper bag is really helpful only when you have hyperventilation.  In hyperventilation, you are breathing too fast and too much, leading to lower level of CO2 in your blood, because you breath it out too much.  The paper bag helps you to breath back in a part of the CO2 you have released out, and less oxygen/more CO2 is taken in, and it rebalances your blood pH  ( hyperventilation leads to respiratory alcalosis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation#Treatment ) .

However, fast and shallow breathing, even if not caused by hyperventilation, can be linked to anxiety.  What I think had been beneficial for you when you did this, is what I experiment when meditating.  The focus on your breath, and the slowing down of your breath cycle, is what had a calming effect on you. I suggest you try breathing exercise/meditation without the bag, just to see if you can get the same calming effect, without the risk of oxygen deprivation ( unless your physician have diagnosed you with an hyperventilation syndrome, but it does not seem to be your case). Slowing down the respiratory cycle sure does have a calming effect on me, and I never have used a paper bag, which I think may cause some harm if done often because of the oxygen deprivation.

I meditate for years, and made it a daily practice in my life, and it helps in every aspect of my life - calm, serenity, clarity of mind, focus, sense of connecting with life, relationship, social interactions.   The benefits you mentioned from your paper bag experiment are along that line as well.  Every morning, I meditate for between 10 to 20 minutes.  This is what helps me the most, more than any supplement ( my most severe POIS symptoms are emotional ones, like irritability, anxiety, mood swings, .... so, yes, calming techniques are quite relevant in POIS , at least for me ). 

Meditating doesn't have to be complicated.  For those interested, I can share a simple meditation technique I use almost every day, which is an ancient one and easy one, called the 4X4 breathing.  Sit in a comfortable position, back straight ( can be on a chair - the lotus or half-lotus position is really not a must!).  Not lying down, it is not the best for keeping the focus. Then, depending on your lung capacity and your experience, you count in segment of 3, or 4.   First segment, the in breath, you slowly count "1-2-3", than same length of time, you hold your breath for " 1-2-3", than same slow "1-2-3" on the out breath, then hold ""1-2-3" on empty lungs.  This is one cycle, and then, breath in again.  When more able to slow down cycle, you can count in segments of 4.   Ten cycles is very calming.  20 cycles is very, very calming.  When I am very anxious and tensed, 40 cycles can be necessary, but that is becoming rare, because there is a cumulative benefit at doing it every day.

The most calming part of the cycle is the out breath and holding on empty lungs.  That is why some are doing 3 segments only (inhale - exhale - hold ).  I prefer the four segments, but there is no law in this, one has to try and see what is effective for himself.  The only thing, when you are very tensed, you may sense a little anxiety when holding your breath after the exhale, lungs empty.  If you are too anxious to inhale before it's time, just accelerate the whole cycle rhythm a bit, and with time, it will be easier to slow down.

Let me know of the results if you decide on giving it a try.



« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 12:00:53 PM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

poiseidon

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Re: Breath in a bag?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 03:12:35 PM »
Hi, poiseidon. We're getting closer to that POIS Island Retreat you proposed a while back :)

What prompted you in the first place to do the bag/breathing experiment? For POIS-testing?

Demo


Ahah I know! That's why I tried the paper bag thing, I've seen in it a movie. If flying to the Secret Island Retreat made me too much exited I'd breath it out landing with a calm and wealthy look. :)

BTW it's been a while since I posted anything but I have been following you guys on a weekly basis just checking things out. I have been working in the past year and a half staying busy. It gave me little time to think about POIS and for me, that, is a major POIS killer. But it has been also a couple of month I lost my job and that's a downer not just because you need to work if you want to eat but more importantly because I currently have nothing that keeps me away from myself. I wouldn't say POIS made me lose my job but it didn't help me to keep it either.

Since we're here I would like to share another recent experience:
I got a Stomach Flu and if you guys never had it, I gotta say it's pretty nasty. Here we say that you end up peeing from your butt-hole and shitting from your mouth, most likely at the very same time (in this cases is very convenient living in Italy since every house has bidet next to the WC). It didn't hit me hard thou compared to rest of the house; to the point where while everybody around me was having a near-death-experience I was the annoying dude that was OK. And here comes the interesting part... Since I thought I was out of danger I let myself go. I had 3 Os in the morning (a nice day killer :) ). Then (don't know if it's correlated but it's not the point) the flu started to kick in around 11AM. I ate a little bit and for the rest of the day the nausea built up stronger and stronger. Parallel, POIS symptoms got fewer and fewer. By 01AM of that night POIS was gone. All I had was a really annoying nausea that never ended up in vomiting. That aside I've never felted any better in months POIS-wise.
But if I wanted to sleep I had to get rid of nausea so I sticked two fingers in my throat and... OH BOY! There was stuff even from the day before. Basically my stomach was stuck because of the virus. Minutes after, the feeling that I had in my intestine was the same as water going down the sink. It was like whatever was left there, simply drowned down. I really felt it. From the upper intestine at the speed of light passed all my gut to far end. You can imagine in which state. Seconds after I was in full blown POIS and it has been worse than usual for days.
So what I'm trying to say is that I had a vivid evidence that intestine, at least for me, plays a major role in the SYMPTOMS of POIS. As long as food was stuck in the stomach I felt "great" as it went down the gut, worst day ever. Sorry for being so graphic :D ...
After spending loads on supplements I found out that the only thing that works is abstinence. Full stop. And it's free.
Meditation if done correctly is great too.
Also avoiding computers produce faster recoveries and fewer temptations.

poiseidon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: Breath in a bag vs breath exercises and meditation
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 03:20:29 PM »
Hi Poiseidon,

Breathing in a paper bag is really helpful only when you have hyperventilation.  In hyperventilation, you are breathing too fast and too much, leading to lower level of CO2 in your blood, because you breath it out too much.  The paper bag helps you to breath back in a part of the CO2 you have released out, and less oxygen/more CO2 is taken in, and it rebalances your blood pH  ( hyperventilation leads to respiratory alcalosis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation#Treatment ) .

However, fast and shallow breathing, even if not caused by hyperventilation, can be linked to anxiety.  What I think had been beneficial for you when you did this, is what I experiment when meditating.  The focus on your breath, and the slowing down of your breath cycle, is what had a calming effect on you. I suggest you try breathing exercise/meditation without the bag, just to see if you can get the same calming effect, without the risk of oxygen deprivation ( unless your physician have diagnosed you with an hyperventilation syndrome, but it does not seem to be your case). Slowing down the respiratory cycle sure does have a calming effect on me, and I never have used a paper bag, which I think may cause some harm if done often because of the oxygen deprivation.

I meditate for years, and made it a daily practice in my life, and it helps in every aspect of my life - calm, serenity, clarity of mind, focus, sense of connecting with life, relationship, social interactions.   The benefits you mentioned from your paper bag experiment are along that line as well.  Every morning, I meditate for between 10 to 20 minutes.  This is what helps me the most, more than any supplement ( my most severe POIS symptoms are emotional ones, like irritability, anxiety, mood swings, .... so, yes, calming techniques are quite relevant in POIS , at least for me ). 

Meditating doesn't have to be complicated.  For those interested, I can share a simple meditation technique I use almost every day, which is an ancient one and easy one, called the 4X4 breathing.  Sit in a comfortable position, back straight ( can be on a chair - the lotus or half-lotus position is really not a must!).  Not lying down, it is not the best for keeping the focus. Then, depending on your lung capacity and your experience, you count in segment of 3, or 4.   First segment, the in breath, you slowly count "1-2-3", than same length of time, you hold your breath for " 1-2-3", than same slow "1-2-3" on the out breath, then hold ""1-2-3" on empty lungs.  This is one cycle, and then, breath in again.  When more able to slow down cycle, you can count in segments of 4.   Ten cycles is very calming.  20 cycles is very, very calming.  When I am very anxious and tensed, 40 cycles can be necessary, but that is becoming rare, because there is a cumulative benefit at doing it every day.

The most calming part of the cycle is the out breath and holding on empty lungs.  That is why some are doing 3 segments only (inhale - exhale - hold ).  I prefer the four segments, but there is no law in this, one has to try and see what is effective for himself.  The only thing, when you are very tensed, you may sense a little anxiety when holding your breath after the exhale, lungs empty.  If you are too anxious to inhale before it's time, just accelerate the whole cycle rhythm a bit, and with time, it will be easier to slow down.

Let me know of the results if you decide on giving it a try.

Hey man thanks for the insights. That's the thing! I tried so many times with normal deep breathing but the relief has never been as powerful as with the bag (we gotta find a fancier name for this :)..). Actually it feels like my lungs are paralyzed while in POIS...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 03:23:04 PM by poiseidon »
After spending loads on supplements I found out that the only thing that works is abstinence. Full stop. And it's free.
Meditation if done correctly is great too.
Also avoiding computers produce faster recoveries and fewer temptations.

demografx

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Re: Breath in a bag?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 08:54:06 PM »
Great discussion, guys! :)
10 years of major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.

Vandemolen

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Re: Breath in a bag?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2019, 01:28:07 PM »
Before I knew what POiS was I thought I became sick because of my breathing during sex. Now I know what POIS is, I think that chronic hyperventilation makes the symptoms worse. Now I am in a POIS like state for 6 months I recognize a lot of the chronic hyperventilation symptoms.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 06:13:48 AM by Vandemolen »
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.