Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[Starsky]

Muscle pains, swollen lymph nodes and physical weekness.  But i dont feel so sick that i cant stand up in the morning.

[victor.kons]

We talked about this with Vincent. After a year of niacin usage his pois is at the same level. It didnt get better or worse due to niacin usage. He didnt noticed any tolerance to niacin, he gets always the same results with 150mg.

I'm taking XN for 2 years and feel no difference in my POIS symptoms at rare cases when I don't take XN. And I don't need increase in dosage. I'm using 150mg dosage all the time, or 0.5 ml if I do injections. Sometimes I use Niacin instead of XN, I feel no difference between XN and Niacin, dosages and results are the same.

Victor

[sameer7777]

Ok guys I am giving it another try this time half tab around 125 mg as the original tab is 250 mg of Gnc
I will break it in half thanks guys
Remember me
Sameer

[Starsky]

How do you want to check if its working if you are already in Pois?

[Observer]

I have one important thing to point out, something has happened, because i am not getting 100 percent relief from niacin -200mg- the last times, i feel with  mild cognitive symptoms or to be like "on the verge" of POIS symptoms. I wonder that this has happened twice in the last 4 days because i am taking one anti-histamine pill (you know i am allergic to a lot of things, and i suffer from allergy to acarus in my home-town -subtropical area- http://ekofyz.ic.cz/img/acarus.jpg I get runny nose, cough,etc). Is it possible that anti-histamine is affecting the over-all  result of the niacin because the histamine release is lower than without the anti-histamine? What do you think about this?

[Observer]

I have one important thing to point out, something has happened, because i am not getting 100 percent relief from niacin -200mg- the last times, i feel with  mild cognitive symptoms or to be like "on the verge" of POIS symptoms. I wonder that this has happened twice in the last 4 days because i am taking one anti-histamine pill (you know i am allergic to a lot of things, and i suffer from allergy to acarus in my home-town -subtropical area- http://ekofyz.ic.cz/img/acarus.jpg I get runny nose, cough,etc). Is it possible that anti-histamine is affecting the over-all  result of the niacin because the histamine release is lower than without the anti-histamine? What do you think about this?

I stop taking this anti-histamine pill and had another orgasm after taking 200 mg of niacin and the results were the same as ever: No brain fog, no cognitive symptoms.
The anti-histamine by itself produces some lethargy and right now i am just fine. I do not know what to think about this, if i felt that way because of the anti-histamine or the anti-histamine reduced the effect of niacin(it was more difficult to get the flush too).

[Observer]

Anti-histamine H1+Niacin is worse for POIS than just niacin. I think that i should raise the dose of niacin if i am taking anti-histamines.

I stopped taking anti-histamines and had another O. again with niacin and that blocked my symptoms!

[Starsky]

Observer, do you have this blocking effect without a flush?
I think if you want combine antihistamine and niacin you should take niacin first, after a 1h or after the flush take antihistamine and after 1h ejaculate.

[Starsky]

A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.

[Observer]

Observer, do you have this blocking effect without a flush?
I think if you want combine antihistamine and niacin you should take niacin first, after a 1h or after the flush take antihistamine and after 1h ejaculate.

Hi Starsky,

Yes i indeed have this blocking effect without a flush, or at least on the "verge" of flush or with very mild flush.
I do not want to combine the antihistamine with niacin for the POIS itself- because niacin is working already 100 percent-, but right now it has occured that i have been taken antihistamine H1 to fight against my brutal allergy to acarus! .
So, one day i took the antihistamine in the morning and then i took the niacin in the afternoon and the results were not as good as always. So that make me wondering about the potential effects of antihistamine with the niacin.

[b_jim]

A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.

Hmm...  
We can also think niacin is a cofactor of histamines synthesis and avoid its depletion after histamines rush caused by semen allergy.
The work of desensitization is to avoid the trigger of inflammation by the time.
Or maybe there are different mechanisms to explain the succes of B3.

I don't thonk the niacin flush can be compared to flu-like symptoms in Pois. It's very short and restricted to only few symptoms.

[Starsky]

Niacin-induced “Flush” Involves Release of Prostaglandin D2 from Mast Cells and Serotonin from Platelets: Evidence from Human Cells in Vitro and an Animal Model
Dean Papaliodis, William Boucher, Duraisamy Kempuraj, Margaret Michaelian, Adams Wolfberg, Michael House and Theoharis C. Theoharides
+ Author Affiliations

Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Molecular Immunopharmacology and Drug Discovery Laboratory (D.P., W.B., D.K., M.M., T.C.T.) and Departments of Obstetrics and Gynecology (A.W., M.H.), Internal Medicine (T.C.T.), and Biochemistry (T.C.T.), Tufts University School of Medicine, Tufts Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts
Address correspondence to:
Dr. Theoharis Constantin Theoharides, Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Tufts University School of Medicine, 136 Harrison Avenue, Boston, MA 02111. E-mail: theoharis.theoharides@tufts.edu
 

FULL ARTICLE: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full.pdf

ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush

[Starsky]

I think Demografx was taking Aspirine to reduce the flush. Aspirie inhibits the effect of prostaglandins, but taking aspirine and niacin didnt make a difference for him so i think prostaglandins are not important. What is left is SEROTONIN. The effect of serotonin can be blocked by taking antihistamines, so i think thats the explanation of Observers case. What my allergist said, histamine and serotonin have the same group of receptors and serotonin can bind to histamine receptors(dont know to which one) and could work as an antihistamine.

[Willem]

FULL ARTICLE: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full.pdf

ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush

Nice find!

[Daveman]

A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.

Hmm...  
We can also think niacin is a cofactor of histamines synthesis and avoid its depletion after histamines rush caused by semen allergy.
The work of desensitization is to avoid the trigger of inflammation by the time.
Or maybe there are different mechanisms to explain the succes of B3.

I don't thonk the niacin flush can be compared to flu-like symptoms in Pois. It's very short and restricted to only few symptoms.

ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush

These two posts are quite compatible.

Dr. Waldinger's group, upon recently hearing about niacin, suggested (although they clarified, without much study yet), that it was probably as a result of niacin running out histamines during the flush, thereby depleting them whereby they could not become involved in the  auto-immune chain reaction that creates POIS.

This goes contrary to Starsky's findings. However my tendency is to believe that it is not so much the histamine "run-out" that is so important as it is B_Jim's point that niacin is a co factor in production of histamines AND dopamine/serotonin.

A common sense that I have had with my niacin experience ( almost identical to Observer's) is that "it feels" like one of two things, either that niacin is consuming some substance, let's say some auto-immune antagonist or more probably contributing to the bolstering of what ever is being depleted.

I can almost feel some process happening right from the orgasm through the first hours after orgasm.

If I fall a little short of the flush, the result of this above process falls short and is somewhat partial. Today for instance I feel light POIS after last nights orgasm where I didn't actually get a flush. (100mg) Still this worst case, still reduces effects of POIS by 80%.

[Jon]

I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..

[Daveman]

I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..

I tried niacin without orgasm recently. Had a very strong flush, but did not have an orgasm, just wanted to see how it felt.

Usually after taking niacin and an orgasm, I get a sort of springtime energy feeling. I feel healthy and spirited. Taking it just by itself with no orgasm, there were no effects whatsoever in the days to follow.

[mellivora]

I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..

Hi Jon. Is Niacin working for you now? At the moment, from your previous reports, I have you down as someone for whom Niacin has not been effective. If it is working for you, could you possibly summarise your recent experience with Niacin including the type and dose you have been taking and an estimate (percentage if possible) of how much it has reduced your symptoms. Thanks. I can then update your info in my summary here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958 (you are currently near the bottom of the summary with those for whom Niacin hasn't worked).

[b_jim]

I can confirm I don't have skin reaction when i put semen on the skin of my forearm.
I took only 20mg of niacin.

So I have a important chance to be negative if I made the prick test.
I think anti-histamine meds can't help me. The only symptom I have some minutes after orgasm is cold feeling. My other symptoms start 3-4 hours later.

[Starsky]

Did someone try B3 in injections? When I take niacin 1hr after meal i get pois. ARGH!