Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[jivetalk]

Okay Guys, so here is the first Niacin Pills Report:

I have been taking Niacin (Niacinic Acid) Pills 100mg twice a day since Monday. First time O was last night, but I took 300 mg of Niacin prior to O to ensure that I got the Niacin Flush.

So How am I feeling today?

Well...I feel that my POIS day 1 isn't as bad as it normally is, but its no where near 100% gone either, I would say POIS intensity is 60-70%. However it is very hard to say if this was due to Niacin, it could be a placebo effect, or it could be just the POIS itself. Sometimes my POIS intensity isn't as bad as other times, it just depends on the day.

I am finding that taking niacin is increasing my blood flow, I think I can feel it. The Flush that I get from Niacin isn't really that strong either, it is more of just a mild tingling sensation.

I will just have to keep experimenting. Am very interested in the results of Victor's injectible Niacin Experiment, and any one else's experiences with Niacin. I don't think anyone else has reported back on Niacin as yet...

[Daveman]

Thanks for the report jivetalk,

Yes, I think the flush, and particularly the tingling/itching is important. If you don't get the tingle and itch, even though you get the flush, then the histamines aren't being released.... which in my opinion is the essencial part to breaking the POIS cycle.

So from my reading, it might be better NOT to take it regularly before hand, just a good enough does an hour ahead. If  you take the niacin regularly, you build up the tolerance, and more is needed to produce the histamine release.

So You know that 100 twice a day then 300 just before will give you a light tingle. Probably without the 200 per day before hand, the same 300 just before should give you a good reaction.

The effect should(?) then be better.

Each one will probably have diferent levels of reactivity, depending on state of health, and levels of toxins. So it's a good idea to find your levels first, taking doses that produce a strong tingle and or itching. I would say the tests shouldn't be regular, that is maybe once every 2 or 3 days take a certain dose to see how much you need and how much you can tolerate.

Once you know the dose, don't take the niacin until just before orgasm.

[lauracostis]

If I had to guess, I would think that "Injectible xanthinol" may work because of the powerful vasodilating effect on the body.  In the medical world we consider the flush a side effect of niacin and try to avoid it or the patients wont take their medication. I dont remember Victor saying anything about getting a flush when taking xanthinol.

Victor, can you tell us if you got any flushing or itching after taking xanthinol nicotinate injections.

[lauracostis]

Victor have you tried your new nicotanic acid injections yet, I am interested to see if that works also.

[B_Daniel]

I bought some Nature's Bounty 500mg Niacin capsules.  The bottle says "Flush Free" on the side.  I don't get the flush or the tingling/itching, even when I take 2 pills at a time.  I wish I could report my findings to everyone, but my POIS symptoms are so circumstantial that it's impossible for me to say after taking it once (just before an O).  I will say though that my symptoms were very weak this time - so I can't say that I know that it didn't work!  that's good, right?  Somebody who's more in tune with his POIS needs to experiment and report back.

[jivetalk]

2nd Niacin Pills Report:

Okay decided to O again for the Team this afternoon. This time, I upped my Dosage of Niacin. I have stopped taking the pills on a daily basis as per Davemans suggestion (Thanks Daveman. So anyway - About 45 minutes prior, I took 3 x 100mg tablets, then about 15 minutes prior I took another 2 x 100mg. Definately had the Niacin Flush during the 'deed'.

Results:

OMG - I feel fine. In fact I feel really good. I seem to have a lot more energy. Seems to have kicked me out of the POIS that I had yesterday also. Very Very minor signs of brain fog - I feel I could sit down and have a good conversation with someone, which is very rare for me after O. Am pretty excited about this so thought I'd write on the forum. Of course this still could be Placebo, or one of those rare times that an O kicks me out of POIS. I am still cautiously optimistic. Will keep experimenting and reporting.

P.S- I am not sure about the long term effects of Niacin, I am tempted to up my dosage - but Probably won't until I research Niacin a bit more and what ill effects it might have.

[jivetalk]

B_Daniel:

My experience has been, The Flush is what really helps. I was told there are two types of Niacin- Flush and Non Flush - both for different purposes.
You can really feel the flush in the head and face when it occurs, strangely in the same place that the POIS 'headaches/fog'.

I would recommend trying the Flush version 'Nicotinic Acid' - but only if you have no pre-existing medical conditions of course.

Still - although I am getting promising results so far - I am still to convince myself that it is the Niacin that is helping me.

[victor.kons]

Hi All,

I've tried injection of 1% Niacin acid instead of XN today, the dose was 1ml. The initial feelings of this drug activity was that it is not as strong as XN and it takes more time to have the flush. The flush was a bit less strong as well I think. I had an O in 25 mins after injection.

Looks like Niacin Acid actions the same as XN for me, but I need twice the dose of XN or even a bit more, to have the same effect. Anyways - no POIS after 1ml dose of niacin acid - this is the result for now. But my experiment was not absolutely clean, because I had XN injection yesterday, so I need to try for a while Niacin Acid to be sure. Will keep you updated.

Warning! Don't try this on yourself without consultation of qualified medical personnel, you can make yourself permanent injury.

Victor

[hurray]

Great news jivetalk and Victor - are we approaching a potential cure to POIS at last?

Even if it only works for a percentage of us it would be an incredible discovery! I look forward to hearing more news!

[Daveman]

I bought some Nature's Bounty 500mg Niacin capsules.  The bottle says "Flush Free" on the side.  I don't get the flush or the tingling/itching, even when I take 2 pills at a time.  I wish I could report my findings to everyone, but my POIS symptoms are so circumstantial that it's impossible for me to say after taking it once (just before an O).  I will say though that my symptoms were very weak this time - so I can't say that I know that it didn't work!  that's good, right?  Somebody who's more in tune with his POIS needs to experiment and report back.

The capsules are niacinimide then?

The suspicion is that the flush and or histamine release is what helps, so niacin (the flush kind) is what we need to try.

However it's good that we test the non-flush kind, becasue at this point in time we are still talking conjecture.

You could try a few more times then switch to a flush type (careful with the dose the first time), 500 would probably give you one heck of a ride!

More like 100 to start.

Edit: Written about the same time as the two posts above (before seeing them) anyways, in line with those results. Good work everybody. Hope it leads somewhere. I'm also interested in "what it means for the whole POIS process", and a REAL cure.

[B_Daniel]

The capsules are niacinimide then?

The suspicion is that the flush and or histamine release is what helps, so niacin (the flush kind) is what we need to try.

However it's good that we test the non-flush kind, becasue at this point in time we are still talking conjecture.

You could try a few more times then switch to a flush type (careful with the dose the first time), 500 would probably give you one heck of a ride!

My capsules were not niacin (also known as vitamin B3, nicotinic acid and vitamin PP).  Nor was it the corresponding amide, nicotinamide ("niacinamide").  It was Inositol Hexanicotinate  (IHN), which is an inositol that has been esterified with niacin on all six of inositol's alcohol groups.  IHN is usually sold as "flush-free" or "no-flush" niacin in units of 250, 500, or 1000 mg/tablets or capsules.  This form of niacin does not cause the flushing associated with the immediate-release products, and evidence that it has lipid-modifying functions is contradictory, at best.  (This info came straight from Wiki)

I'm glad I researched all that.  I had no idea there were 3 different types of Niacin prior to some Wikipedia research a few mins ago.  Jivetalk and Daveman, thanks for clueing me in.

[jivetalk]

Hi Guys.

Thought I'd just report, that I woke up with no POIS symptoms this morning even from my O yesterday afternoon, but later in the morning/day whilst at work POIS symptoms started occuring. Cold Sweats, tiredness (yawning, eye strain) and brainfog. However intensity was maybe 60%. I can't help but feel that the Niacin 'wore off' somehow - either that or it was just Placebo effect - I don't know.

Victor - I am very encouraged that the Nicontinic Acid gave you the same effects as XN. It would be great once you are able to prove that conclusively with a 'clean test'.

[victor.kons]

Hi Guys.

Thought I'd just report, that I woke up with no POIS symptoms this morning even from my O yesterday afternoon, but later in the morning/day whilst at work POIS symptoms started occuring. Cold Sweats, tiredness (yawning, eye strain) and brainfog. However intensity was maybe 60%. I can't help but feel that the Niacin 'wore off' somehow - either that or it was just Placebo effect - I don't know.

Victor - I am very encouraged that the Nicontinic Acid gave you the same effects as XN. It would be great once you are able to prove that conclusively with a 'clean test'.

I can say that I've no POIS today, but I felt like I was on the edge of getting POIS after I've tried Nicotinic Acid instead of XN and had an O... And my stomach became crazy, I don't understand is it because of nicotinic acid, or because I took some alcohol on the birthday party of my relative.... Anyways I'm going to continue experiments with nicotinic acid. Also there is XN in tablets. I had tried it one time and failed, but I think now that might be I need to increase the dose and try again.

Victor

[Starsky]

I bought in a german online store Xantinol nicotinate retard tablets 1000mg. I will be testing it on weekend.

[victor.kons]

As I think about XN and about experiments with Niacin Acid the episodes from the past come to my mind. I think these episodes might be helpful in understanding the effects of niacin acid variants to the POIS symptoms.

I remember that my doctor at first recommended me to try niacin acid injection at home half an hour before I have the O. I've tried it and reported back to her that it doesn't have the effect. Then she tried many many different drugs to help me with POIS symptoms in the hospital without result and in two month she was almost gave up. Then I've asked her to try niacin acid one more time, because I had some feelings about it, she said that it would be better to try XN, because of my stomach issues. I've tried it and reported back to the doctor that XN really works. She was surprised very much, because XN is actually the niacin acid variant, but at the same time pure niacin acid didn't have effect.. She said that I should try injections of XN of 1ml two times a day during two weeks. Then while I did injections I had many O without POIS symptoms. After two weeks of XN injections I've stopped to do them and tried to have an O on the next day, and I've got all the POIS symptoms. So... regular injections seems do not have a positive effect at least noticeable.

At the same time irregular injections of XN during long time do not tend to higher and higher doses, the needed dose is the same after a year. My dose I think is close to 0.4 ml, when I have 0.3 ml dose I'm still okay, but begin to feel light POIS symptoms - like sand in the eyes tiredness, irritation, but no brain fog...

I can't say that I feel the huge flush when I inject XN, but, I certainly feel something, I can't explain it, but I feel that something goes on in the body, something like vasolidation and of course I feel light flush too, but only light. When I tried 1ml niacin acid injection this Saturday, although I didn't have POIS after it, I felt that I was on the edge of POIS, and though I felt light flush, I think it was not enough to have such flush. And the same was with XN tablets - I felt the light flush, but it was not enough I think. I believe with enough dose the XN tables and niacin acid will work and I want to check this....

Victor

[Daveman]

Most probably, XN is stronger, and especially when injected, goes direct to the system. So probably has a better probablilty of success. Still, we are fairly early in the testing.

It would obviously be much better if we could find a successfull application of regular off the shelf Niacin rather than need an injectable XN which is hard to find, with it's inherent dangers of being injectable.

In any case, testing for both types is early.

So we should continue with both where the ideal situation would be:

• to test just before orgasm only, to mitigate the effect of flush desensitization, and to benefit from the reduced need for constant ingestion.
• to optimize dose tp produce a good flush reaction, a minimum dose beyond light

After these tests, if both work, it's obviously better to use the off the shelf Niacin. Even those who test well with XN, should then test with regualr Niacin as well.

[Starsky]

I think injections could be healthier. Victors XN dose is 150 mg. I want to try 1000mg in Pill. Perhaps it will work.

[Daveman]

I think injections could be healthier. Victors XN dose is 150 mg. I want to try 1000mg in Pill. Perhaps it will work.

That's a slow release pill right?

My hunch is that it won't work too well because it releases a regular dosage over time and therefore doesn't produce the histamine release as a one time dose just before orgasm would.

These type of slow release pills are made to "flush out" the system, by opening the capillaries, the idea being to flush out colesterol and other junk from the system, methodically. But flush in this sense isn't the same "flush" as a one time dose of Niacin where you feel like you're blushing, body hot and often accompanied by itching.

The slow release pills cause better irrigation at cell level for a prolonged period. But don't stimulate the histamine release because the "flush" is below a threshold. The higher the dose and more constant the dose, the higher the threshold. Where 100 mg might initially stimulate histamine release, with constant use (more than 2 or 3 days) the threshold goes up, and the histamine release does not happen again unless a higher dose is taken.

Whereas Victor takes 150mg of XN injectable, one might have to take 250 or more orally. And one would have to take perhaps at least 300mg of niacin to get the saem effect.

However if Victor were to take 150mg per day, whether he has an oragasm or not, it would stop working.

I read of a person who was taking daily doses of greater than 500mg. after building up the dosage over time. She complained that every once in a while like every 2 mo. or so, she suffered extreme flush and itching, almost intolerable.

The answer was that constant doses build up the flush threshold. She had gotten to a threshold that permitted taking more than 500mg per day. But if she varied her dose, or even forgot for one day, taking the same 500mg would put her past the threshold. So fi for some reason she lowered her dosage, she should not continue with the regular dose, but back off and build it up again.

It SEEMs that we need the flush with histamine release (itch and or tingling), just before orgasm to break the cycle.

So, it's good you take the 1000mg pill. If it doesn't work, at least we can be prepared for why. If it does work, then we need to more completely understand the process.

[demografx]

I get unpredictable results from my daily Niaspan 500mg (extended release niacin).

The reason, apparently from what we have all learned from Victor et al: my strategy as suggested by my GP is to counteract the flush! (325mg uncoated aspirin 30 mins prior to Niaspan, 1st 2 days, then body adjusts and won't flush).

Exactly the opposite. It is funny: the flush is why people don't stay on niacin therapy!

My main reason, though, for niacin therapy is for cholesterol, not POIS.

[demografx]

In a discussion with nordnurse, I learned the following:

"Self-injecting deep IM [intramuscular] into the buttock is very difficult because it's awkward.  Requires a 2" long needle, must be done straight in (90-degree angle) -- or it's not deep IM.  

Also, must be done in the upper, outer quadrant of the buttock -- or else there's danger of hitting the sciatic nerve -- which is not a pleasant experience. And can cause permanent injury. "


Thank you, Stefanie (from NORD)!!!

Good conclusion and recommendation follows below!

But way better to get it [done] by a professional the first times !  []

mod edit: emphasis mine on Habibou's words above - demo