Something to read

[sameer7777]

interesting , what do u say masterbation without looking at porn .......//

[Observer]

I agree highly with this portion of what you said, Daveman. To some extent we can minimize our symptoms through abstinence and other lifestyle changes, however human willpower is a limited resource. General good diet and exercise is good for everyone, but it will not solve POIS for most of us. We need medicines, drugs, and surgical solutions. And for that we need time, trial and error, money, and scientific research.

But you´ll find a great relief with these two, specially the first!!!

[Observer]

OK, let's take a look at some withdrawal symptoms of porn (masturbation) addicts, taken from yourbrainonporn.com:

1.
---

JRD, this people says that they are experiencing symptoms of their withdrawal of porn, and they continue to struggle 2 weeks after stopping watching porn.

I don´t need 2 weeks to recover. I usually needed 3-5 days, and nowadays i have shortened the recover:  1-3 days and lowering the intensity of symptoms 70-80% However i am having some bad POIS episodes during this time occasionaly(but not as bad as in the past.) . I have been more than a month without an orgasm and i felt with 200% energy. That only needed a Nocturnal emission to destroy the recover.
I don´t get why i have a runny nose and red eyes after an O. This seems to me like some auto-immune response and not what you´re describing. If i stop having O. i won´t experience any withdrawal symptom, i would just get better or fully recovered until the next unconscious or wanted orgasm.

[JRD]

I think, the real problem may be in the role of orgasm as a substitutional factor for other natural activities like socializing, work, hobbies, etc. In such case, it becomes the source of instant pleasure/escape, highly addictive because of its availability and stimulative properities and of course capable of making physiological changes.

A former porn addict usually speaks about becoming a new person after MONTHS of abstinence, not just days or weeks. They go through a difficult withdrawal in the first few days, but the progress is not linear, it involves the change of pleasure seeking attitude, which would normally tend to result in relapse (i.e. fullfilling their leisure time with thinking about sexual contents, masturbating, dreaming about sex-related things, which are bringing a pleasure etc.).

Rebooting not only stops activating the old pathway, it also helps return your brain to normal sensitivity. Remember: Numbed brains are desperate for stimulation. This is why your free will lies in restoring normal brain sensitivity. Needless to say, rebooting is only a critical first step, not a permanent cure. Human brains are vulnerable: Too much of any intense stimulus can lead to a downward spiral. And your brain has a strong porn pathway, which will always be easy to reactivate. Rebooting doesn't guarantee you can safely use Internet porn in the future.

Heavy users also sometimes report obsessive-compulsive behaviors, depression, severe stress at the thought of socializing, and concentration problems. And users who try to stop viewing porn report lingering withdrawal symptoms such as shaking, insomnia, mood swings, splitting headaches, anxiety, depression, lethargy, foggy thinking, stomach pains, disturbing dreams, flu-like symptoms, and a strong desire to strangle someone. These symptoms suggest that their brains are indeed struggling with brain changes common to addiction. Porn recovery sites are springing up all over the Web.

source: yourbrainonporn.com

I see the abysmal difference between the speculative auto-imunne theory based on some kind of unknown, medically unrecognized obscure mechanism and the well-known principle of withdrawal reactions, which are common for a various types of dependence. And I don't say, there aren't other possible causes, but this one seems to represent the best explanation so far...in my opinion.

http://yourbrainonporn.com/intoxicating-behaviors-300-vaginas-a-lot-of-dopamine

[Daveman]

- "we would need to figure out why this addiction occurs in some people and not most people."

Well, try to imagine somebody, who has been drinking alcohol for the whole life, without any cravings or signs of dependence -> the vast majority of drinkers. Then, there is a small group of them vulnerable to this type of stimuli, being able to build up an addiction with all the phenomenons like tolerance, withdrawal syndrome and relapsing behaviour. It doesn't mean there is something physically wrong with them, they're just prone to certain type of behaviour with all of its consequences.

Sexual fantasies and porn-induced imagination appear to be enough for somebody to experience all of this. There is a whole bunch of other critical factors like an age of onset, frequency or intensity, motivation, chronicity, sex etc. I can see how powerful a flow of stimulation (which is free of charge and in an unlimited amount) you experience before/during orgasm is and yet it seems to be "just a standard" for you.

I would say, POIS is an extreme end of this type of addiction - many sufferers remember being in some type of prodromal phase earlier in their life before the real exacerbation of the disease, which can be interpreted as a mild form of dependence. Later, the disease got worse, eventually stronger in their aspects like a length of suffering or a new kind of symptoms. I suppose, many men don't even recognize a subtle difficulties or can't find out a connection with orgasm, until they start suffering from full-blown post orgasmic complications.

Hormonal dysbalance or atypical levels of hormones, premature ejactulation or ED, typical symptoms, typical length of a few days to few weeks necessary for alleviation, worsening of a condition even after thinking about sex or getting aroused, craving for sex and otherwise strong health - in my opinion, all of this is really definable for this interpretation.

I'm a regular guy, normal sex. Even in my peak years, normal sex. Normal everything. Healthy, never had big or strange problems, never went overboard on anything.

Had a vasectomy at age 23, and a reversal at age 45, began POIS at age 50. Completely in line with the this "unknown, medically unrecognized obscure auto-immune mechanism".

They say that we CAN'T be alergic to our own sperm. That it is isolated by a blood barrier. This is what permitted use of the vasectomy technique. But it IS allergenic. IF it crosses the blood-barrier, it would cause havoc. It would be rare, but I ask you WHAT WOULD RESULT IF IT CROSSED THE BARRIER? Gee we'd get POIS, which by the way is RARE.

You support YOUR concept, which of course is built on solid statistics of the well-known principle of withdrawal reactions, so of course one of OUR theories is short of being "crap". There are several very well respected researchers working on theories related to this, what do you call it? "unknown, medically unrecognized obscure [auto-immune] mechanism".

I know you feel that your concept is only understandable by you, and we don't understand what you are trying to get at. Perhaps it may be that we, the sufferers, (no listen, I'll just speak for myself, they can make up their own minds) that me a living sufferer of POIS, feel that you, a theorist, don't understand and obviously haven't made the effort to REALLY evaluate what we are trying to say.

I have already tried to say that there is potential for a weak strain of individuals (in the systemic sense) to be overly susceptable to addictive type disorders or imbalances, that even normal activity may initiate addictive withdrawl reactions. There  may be some of us more prone, and some even tend toward, sexual exhaustion in terms of behaviours and cycles. But there are too many others that don't fit.

And As I said, propose to me a solution OTHER than saintly restrictions to cure the problem. Becasue if we are overly sensitive, there must be a reason. Find and cure THAT.

It's a better life to suffer with POIS than to fool ourselves into thinking that living a very difficult lifestyle as a saint will cure our POIS.

So if you insist in this theory, propose something USEFUL.

[JRD]

I do not write this with the intention of inciting an angry responses, I am neither a professional, nor a guy wanting to downplay somebody else's suffering. I am too desperate and I really wish there were some rational explanation of why we experience these problems.

Take a look at one of the rare, modern, yet popular diseases like MS - millions of dollars spent on many studies, many theories, many clues, similar symptoms, similar organic changes, similar progression, similar incidence, etc. and NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING about its etiology. Do you really think a bunch of internet guys + a few thousands of dollars for research will help you to understand this disease, in case there is some real, unexplained mechanism just as behind MS is? I don't think so.

You've mentioned a vasectomy - it surely is a whole new level of the problem, but how many other sufferers did undergo a vasectomy or have an injury to this area?

And once again, I do not intend you to think other theories are crap, I'm just saying this one seems to be the "smoothest" in terms of simplicity and probability.

"I have already tried to say that there is potential for a weak strain of individuals (in the systemic sense) to be overly susceptable to addictive type disorders or imbalances, that even normal activity may initiate addictive withdrawl reactions. There  may be some of us more prone, and some even tend toward, sexual exhaustion in terms of behaviours and cycles. But there are too many others that don't fit." - Yes. This is a good reason to think about orgasm-induced conditions (POIS, addiction, etc.), which share many similarities.

[Daveman]

I do not write this with the intention of inciting an angry responses, I am neither a professional, nor a guy wanting to downplay somebody else's suffering. I am too desperate and I really wish there were some rational explanation of why we experience these problems.

Take a look at one of the rare, modern, yet popular diseases like MS - millions of dollars spent on many studies, many theories, many clues, similar symptoms, similar organic changes, similar progression, similar incidence, etc. and NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING about its etiology. Do you really think a bunch of internet guys + a few thousands of dollars for research will help you to understand this disease, in case there is some real, unexplained mechanism just as behind MS is? I don't think so.

You've mentioned a vasectomy - it surely is a whole new level of the problem, but how many other sufferers did undergo a vasectomy or have an injury to this area?

And once again, I do not intend you to think other theories are crap, I'm just saying this one seems to be the "smoothest" in terms of simplicity and probability.

"I have already tried to say that there is potential for a weak strain of individuals (in the systemic sense) to be overly susceptable to addictive type disorders or imbalances, that even normal activity may initiate addictive withdrawl reactions. There  may be some of us more prone, and some even tend toward, sexual exhaustion in terms of behaviours and cycles. But there are too many others that don't fit." - Yes. This is a good reason to think about orgasm-induced conditions (POIS, addiction, etc.), which share many similarities.

Do you have POIS JRD? Perhaps you are more a sexual exhaustion candidate, or....

And with respect to:
"Do you really think a bunch of internet guys + a few thousands of dollars for research will help you to understand this disease"
Just Watch

With respect to:
"You've mentioned a vasectomy - it surely is a whole new level of the problem, but how many other sufferers did undergo a vasectomy or have an injury to this area?"

You didn't catch the point at all, and shows that you only have a superficial understanding of the auto-immune approach. The vasectomy isn't the point! It's that I developed 20 years of anti-bodies, and THEN had a reversal. The reversal exposed the sperm AND antibodies to sensitive tissues for over 5 years which caused damage to sensitive tissues, eventually opening the blood barrier. This is a SIMPLE explaination. Now on every orgasm, an auto-immune battle "type I" inflames tissue which opens the floodgates to a more deeply penetrating type IV.

It why it doesn't happen to every vasectomy patient, and even why many vasectomy patients with reversals don;t have POIS, because my situation is quite unique. I was even warned (not specifically about POIS, but the auto-immune potential in a patient that has had a vasecomy for so long, and then attempting a reversal.

As I said, I don't expect that auto-immune is the only cause, but I don't feel that it is cockamamie as you imply. I even accept the potential in part of your theories. But as I said, if we are so sensitive that normal activity creates the type of reaction you suggest, show me a real solution or approach that leads to reducing the abnormal sensitivity.

Your point is made, now start helping us with this real solution!

Meantime let us work on ours.

[Stef]

JRD,

I stay out of controversial issues on the POIS forums (and the other forums that I'm involved with through NORD), but because of some of the statements you've been making, I feel seriously compelled to comment:


(1) "I would say, POIS is an extreme end of this type of addiction..."

Huh???  You've got to be kidding here, JRD.
 
You apparently don't realize that POIS symptoms frequently occur the very first time that a 12 or 14-year-old boy masturbates or has an ejaculation under any condition! It appears that you haven't taken the time to read the posts by the men on this forum who are literally bearing their souls, with great strength and bravery, about their experiences -- all in an attempt to try to find a cure for whatever POIS actually is.
So far, there is just a little bit that is known about POIS. It is clearly known that it is a rare disorder, that only the most bare bones research has been done to date, and that it is a completely miserable, life-altering, heart-breaking physical disorder that takes a major toll on everyone affected, loved ones included.
It's also known that physicians are often totally off the mark in trying to treat POIS -- because they don't understand it and have frequently never heard of it, and that they often treat it as a psychiatric condition, labeling the person with a psychiatric diagnosis, and perhaps with only the best of intentions, causing even more years of suffering.

Last known fact -- boys and men affected by POIS are living under a terrible cloud of isolation and shame.  Research is going to send that isolation and shame down the tubes.
 
Fortunately, some of that awful sense of isolation has been lifted because of this forum and the Naked Scientist Forum -- the afflicted men who have stumbled onto either or both forums are the lucky ones.


(2) "Take a look at one of the rare, modern, yet popular diseases like MS - millions of dollars spent on many studies, many theories, many clues, similar symptoms, similar organic changes, similar progression, similar incidence, etc. and NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING about its etiology. Do you really think a bunch of internet guys + a few thousands of dollars for research will help you to understand this disease, in case there is some real, unexplained mechanism just as behind MS is? I don't think so."

Excuse me?  JRD, where are you coming up with all this inaccurate information about MS?

For the record, there are subsets of MS, some very, terribly severe, and some more mild. I worked with another RN who has MS and had no idea that she even had this wretched disorder! She was on a medication that specifically targeted the cells that cause her MS symptoms.  She was (probably still is) one of the Head Nurses in the Surgical ICU I used to work at over at Mount Sinai Hospital in NYC. This type of specialized nursing forces one to be on their feet constantly--and very alert.  Her MS symptoms were not at all apparent, and did not get in the way.

It's not yet known if there are subsets of POIS -- but you are comparing oranges to apples.

While the EXACT cause of MS with its many subsets is still not known -- it has not stopped researchers from understanding the autoimmune aspect of it -- and finding targeted therapies that absolutely work in many of the subsets. There are some excellent treatments for some of these forms of MS -- that have each been the result of research that started with very small grants.

(3) "And once again, I do not intend you to think other theories are crap, I'm just saying this one seems to be the "smoothest" in terms of simplicity and probability."

It seems that you're trying to persuade the men here that the "addiction" theory fits POIS, "in terms of simplicity and probability."  However, JRD, it does not appear that anyone here is looking for smooth, simple, or probable.  POIS has several definite physiological components (autoimmunity and immunology, just to name two possible components) that cause terrible symptoms.   

Yes -- a few internet guys (assuming you are referring to the almost 400 men who have left triple that amount or more of posts on these forums) are going to shake this up and get that basic research started.

Nothing about addiction theory makes any sense with respect to POIS -- not one iota.

Before writing on this forum, please read the posts.  You might see why I and others who might be responding to your comments are so frosted by your theories.  You may be well-meaning -- I'm assuming that you are -- but you're writing comments that are medically inaccurate and -- most of all -- potentially demoralizing to these men.  They are on a mission to get better (like heat-seeking missiles!) and they are going to succeed.





[/quote]

[JRD]

I've just mentioned MS as an example of how difficult it is to find a proper cause, even if many professionals, money and interest are involved -> it is a long distance run. Same with other diseases with variable profiles such as schizophrenia etc. - yes, there exist a lot of approaches, studies, theories of possible causes and treatments, but nothing really happens, no specific cure, only symptomatic ones. Does it mean POIS is different, it lies closer to its explanation than the other ones?

"Research is going to send that isolation and shame down the tubes" - I must say, I really value your courageous attitude, but since I am not a professional, I am unable to differentiate between the proper theory and some nonsensual speculations. So tell me, how is it possible, that probably something wrong with orgasm causes aforementioned symptoms (psychological/physical), just them and not the other ones? And why some members suffer from milder version of POIS symptoms chronically, no matter whether they masturbate or not?

I've been suffering from this problem since the age of 12 or 13, which means I spent most of my youth staying at home, unable to socialize, find a girlfriend, reach some achievements etc. For me believing it is not simple means, it represents something, that cannot be explained in a recent few years or decades, i.e. to live in this misery for the rest of my life! I hope I am mistaken.

[Observer]

I'm a regular guy, normal sex. Even in my peak years, normal sex. Normal everything. Healthy, never had big or strange problems, never went overboard on anything.

Had a vasectomy at age 23, and a reversal at age 45, began POIS at age 50. Completely in line with the this "unknown, medically unrecognized obscure auto-immune mechanism".

They say that we CAN'T be alergic to our own sperm. That it is isolated by a blood barrier. This is what permitted use of the vasectomy technique. But it IS allergenic. IF it crosses the blood-barrier, it would cause havoc. It would be rare, but I ask you WHAT WOULD RESULT IF IT CROSSED THE BARRIER? Gee we'd get POIS, which by the way is RARE.

Daveman, i´m sorry if this has been asked before but this seems to me very interesting. Are you saying that the semen during the ejaculation doesn´t(shouldn´t) get in contact with this blood barrier; and in the extreme and rare case that this happens is when you can develop POIS??. Do you think that the result of you getting POIS maybe your vasectomy?.
Please, forgive my ignorance but i just wanted to know this case. I had an inguinal hernia and i had a surgery when i was a child. Thank you!

[Vincent M]

JRD, say your theory is right and that POIS is just a result of an extreme addiction to porn, masturbation, and orgasm. What then? I know of some members here who have abstained completely from orgasm and masturbation for an entire year, only to return to the full-blown misery of POIS symptoms after a single orgasm. I myself went 5 whole months maintaining a complete state of abstinence only to find myself back in full POIS after one orgasm.

Sexual desire is a natural urge that can simply not be suppressed for long periods of time. If your theory is correct then the only way to cure POIS would be to completely eliminate our ability to have an orgasm.

And have you forgotten Animus's cure? He eliminated semen production in his body and now can have orgasms with no POIS symptoms. How does that fit into your theory? And how about the ability of the male birth control drug, Silodosin, to eliminate POIS symptoms by causing anejaculation? Please tell me this. I brought it up before but I haven't seen you respond to these two important points.

[Stef]

Hi again, JRD,

I apologize if I came off harsh earlier.

I haven't walked in your shoes, don't know what you've been through, and wasn't even sure if you had POIS. And truly, I'm very sorry to hear that you've been suffering with this since starting adolescence.  It is just a miserable, isolating scourge that needs real medical attention from dedicated researchers.

The internet has enabled people with rare disorders to finally find each other and raise awareness about their conditions, and provide support and encouragement at the same time. I'd never heard of POIS until Demo contacted me at NORD around two years ago. I could find NOTHING about it at that time on any of the medical databases that we rely upon.  But in just two years (maybe less!) POIS awareness has radically changed for the better.

POIS comes through my google alerts that don't even have the word "POIS" in them.  I purposely set these alerts up under several alternative words -- semen, autologous semen allergy, genital allergy in men, post-vasectomy ejaculation, vasculitis of male genital system -- many variations of anything I can think of that may lead the way to researchers, specialists, blogs, etc.  It's a big part of what my role is at NORD -- connecting patients with specialists, and finding researchers.

And now that there is a research fund in place at NORD, I've started a list of docs who've published articles that seem related to some of the POIS issues.  Thinking outside the box is very important with rare conditions.

Almost no research has been done on POIS, but the researchers are out there-- (it's the funding that isn't) -- and the only way to get the treatment is to get some solid research. But not finding the absolute cause of an illness (like MS!) does not mean it can't at least be treated with great success. 

POIS does seem to affect some differently  -- but each human is unique and is affected in unique ways.  One man's food is another man's poison (pun not intended!).  Research will be able to narrow down subsets in POIS over the years, but that does not mean that a different treatment will be needed for each subset. In fact, for what it's worth, I doubt that POIS subsets will really matter, other than to help physicians in diagnosing this condition.

I truly believe that the answer -- more specifically -- the treatment-- is near rather than far. There might be a very straight-forward cause, possibly related to semen mixing into the bloodstream where it DOES NOT BELONG!  (You all probably know by now -- semen is supposed to be completely locked in to an airtight system that starts in the prostrate and ends with the tip of the urethra) -- and identifying a treatment or two that block that reaction (talking drug treatment here--but not psychiatric drugs!!). The key will be for that one researcher (or one research group) to figure out which chemical creates the havoc -- I bet that is how the treatment will be discovered. I don't think it actually matters how it gets there (although would be good to know --through what gap or congenitally malformed membrane in the male genital tract that semen may be escaping).  Relief from this condition is the goal of your group's research grant.

I agree with Daveman very strongly on this -- trying to live a life of total celibacy is next to impossible and cannot be the answer.  Sexual urges are natural and  a sign of good health (not talking pedophilia here!) -- humans are supposed to have sexual urges!

Try to stay hopeful, JRD -- POIS has only recently come out of its closet.

[Daveman]

.........

So tell me, how is it possible, that probably something wrong with orgasm causes aforementioned symptoms (psychological/physical), just them and not the other ones? And why some members suffer from milder version of POIS symptoms chronically, no matter whether they masturbate or not?

........

It IS possible. There are good explanations even within the auto-immune context. And potentially within other contexts. Have you read Dr. Waldingers papers in enough detail? That would be a start. From there you may be in a position to understand the explanations.

We want to be open in our research approach, but as you indicate we have limited funds. In our 4 years we have formed a solid direction, and not from just a plain "internet-guys conjecture". Not only Dr. Waldinger has a somewhat reasonable direction opened, but several others, and not all the same, but within a paradigm that fits a very promising common direction. NOT NECESARILY 100% sperm allergy related.

It might not even surprise me that elements of your theory fit a piece of the same puzzle.

We've had a lot of chat in our 4 years of solutions that attack the symptoms as though they are the problem. And that doesn't work. You can attack the symptoms to releive the suffering, but not to solve the problem.

Let's look at your theory as a pointer to a deeper problem, a hyper-sensitiiivity to some kind of sexual exhaustion or behavioural addiction imbalance. Then solve whatever is causing that abnormal sensitivity. You know, at that level, maybe there's greater common ground than you think.

[JRD]

There is only one certainty in this discussion -> the fact, that our problems are triggered by orgasm. I haven't read all the posts on NSF yet, but as far as I know, no universal approach has been found, which leads me to think:

- we may experience completely different diseases with slightly similar profiles (symptoms, length etc.)
- we may experience the same disease at various severity levels -> if this is the case, then there are - with regards to experience of many sufferers - different mechanisms involved, but probably the only one existing cause. At this point I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to find out this essential cause. For me, autoimmune or hormonal approaches are then on the same side as a claim about "the orgasm cure" published by Counterpoints.

Yes, I know about Animus's solution and although it seems to be quite invasive to me, I like its results!

"You can attack the symptoms to releive the suffering, but not to solve the problem." - Yeah and I think, it is quite probable this would be the only progress in the next few years. Some people do it with more or less success right now (supplements and other preparations) and in the future, there will be more efficient anti-POIS drugs, capable of suppresing symptoms, but unable to remove the cause.

Anyway, I wish all the best.

[nyan]

There has been too much "evidence" or let's say written experience with things similar to Counterpoint's method which pretty much throws the autoimmune theory in the garbage bin. If you like a theory you stick to it and rationalize everything toward its ideas. But yeah anyone who says something different is "misleading" other sufferers or might not be a POIS case at all.

Sad sad... many egos will be crushed in the long run.

[Daveman]

Anything that isn't scientifically proven or supported is conjecture.

There has been very little scientifically proven, slightly more that has been scientifically supported, and this is what has to be followed.

All the gut feelings and ideas and conjectures are only that. Whether they are mine, or Counterpoints or JRDs or whoever.

We ARE on a path in letting some of the best scientiststs in this area clear up the picture for us. They are not going to accept pure conjecture, may however use it to decide a course of action. But THEY know, better than we which path to follow.

WE tend to let our emotions direct and blind us.

[Daveman]

Anyway, I wish all the best.

I hope that doesn't mean you have given up on us.

All I ask is that you point your conjecture toward a real solution.

What is the cause of this hypersensitivity you feel we have to addictive withdrawl symptomology.

We are on the edge of looking for help from expert researchers. What could you suggest to them in terms of where to go on this?

 

[Daveman]

Daveman, i´m sorry if this has been asked before but this seems to me very interesting. Are you saying that the semen during the ejaculation doesn´t(shouldn´t) get in contact with this blood barrier; and in the extreme and rare case that this happens is when you can develop POIS??. Do you think that the result of you getting POIS maybe your vasectomy?.
Please, forgive my ignorance but i just wanted to know this case. I had an inguinal hernia and i had a surgery when i was a child. Thank you!

The semen certainly doesn't nor shouldn't get in contact with the blood. Everybody (who studies this whole area) knows that. It's why I'm so surprised that it doesn't occur to them that IF IT DID, POIS would result. But they are so conviced that it is impossible!!!

It is well known by those who practice vasectomies, that the system will very likely start to produce anti-bodies to sperm. But tha blood barrier is so strong that everything is kept away from the bloodstream, within a sealed and controlled enviironment. At this point, antibodies are developed and even bind to sperm, which is disposed of internally as waste.

If sperm at this point should get into the blood, an auto-immune reaction would take place as the anit-bodies would attack the sperm within the bloodstream. But the blood barrier is so secure, that it was determined safe to do vasectomies.

Now, if you should eventually have a reversal, the sperm are now allowed to venture through the complete reproductory tract. My urologist told me that in this case, the anti-body attacks withing the reproductory system, in particular in the epydidimis, woudl sure kill most of the sperm. So one can't always count on fertility. Furthermore, especially in cases where the vasectomy has been in place for longer periods before the reversal, that the autoimmune reation would likely destroy and close the vas deferens becasue of inflamation. So far, still not MUCH fear of failure of the blood barrier.

So the docotors' perception is that the blood barrier is very solid.

However I am witness to everything the urologist said and more. After about 5 yrs of reversal and heavy auto-immune reactions within the reproductory system, my vas swell and harden everytime after orgasm. I have pains up into the prstate and gall baldder area.

I suppose that the initial inflamatory reaction, type I, on lymphatic tissues creates a breach in the barrier which permits the initiation of the type IV reaction, which now becomes system wide.

Once system wide, we can expect inflamation on soft tissues (joints) and inflamation of menegial tissues (nerve coverings) would well explain brain fog and general myalgia.

My "injury" is just one example. Your operation could well be another. Some may even be born with some "breach point".


This is in answer to both your and JRDs question of how and why?

[nyan]

Everytime I read Daveman's posts it's like "vasectomies, vasectomies, vasectomies". I actually translate that into "me, me, me. me".

Going as far as having vicious and arrogant remarks as like "Do you even have POIS" is a no no in my book. I'm giving up on this forum because things have not changed since the first post on the nakedscientist. People riddled with placebo effects and a highly speculative theories about auto-immune reactions.

[JRD]

Postorgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) is a post-ejaculatory complex of local and/or systemic symptoms that nearly always occurs within seconds, minutes, or hours post-masturbation, coitus, or spontaneous ejaculation. Recent data suggest an autoimmunogenic/allergic underlying mechanism.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2010.02167.x/abstract

Postorgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) is a combination of local allergic symptoms and transient flu-like illness. In this study, the investigators propose five preliminary criteria to establish the diagnosis.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2010.02166.x/abstract

We describe two men with marked symptoms following orgasm. In each case, the symptoms were consistent with those found in postorgasm illness syndrome (POIS).
"The apparent differing etiologies/clinical associations of these cases highlight the need for careful history, examination, and investigations in patients presenting with POIS. We recommend that each case needs individual consideration and investigation, and treatment needs to be tailored to the likely cause. It seems likely that POIS represents a spectrum of syndromes of differing etiologies. Further research into the neurobiochemical sequelae of orgasm will be useful in understanding the pathological processes in these cases."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2010.01707.x/abstract

As far as I know, the aim of Waldinger's work is to evaluate and treat patients experiencing flu-like symptoms + a few related conditions. That is his interpretation of POIS. But the most people complain about cognitive problems, prioritize other than flu-like symptoms and describe varying time before onset of symptoms and different length of their duration.

In my opinion, it is important not to exclude ANY theory (even if it is based on conjecture), just because it may be the right one for our "POIS subtype". And for me, thats what counts - be it Counterpoints's "good orgasm", an addiction (thus neurochemical/psychosomatic) approach, autoimmune suspection, just about anything.

I think the best step would be to summarize all the successful or alleviating processes (even ideas) mentioned on NSF and post it here in one dedicated topic.