Author Topic: Blood vessel theory  (Read 4134 times)

Twp06242014

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Blood vessel theory
« on: October 29, 2014, 02:25:43 AM »
this is just a theory but i am curious what everyone else thinks.

Related to my recent sauna therapy (still to soon to post definitive conclusioms), i have had a theory in recent months that POIS is somehow caused or related to the blood vessels, specifically the issue of vasconstriction and vasodilation. 

Niacin causes vasodilation (blood vessels widen and carry more blood) and many people have seen their greatest relief with Niacin.  When blood is vasodilated it is pished towards more cells and tissues, including in the brain.  So blood goes further to places it wasnt initially going to and can supply nutrients etc.

Many things can cause vasoconstriction (narrowing of blood vessels) including drug use (smoking), hormones, temperature, etc.  If youre in a cold climate often that might cause it

The solution seems to be to find a way to turn vasoconstricted blood vessels long term into more vasdilated blood vessels.  i have been experimenting with regular Sauna use to promote sweating (vasodilation) but like i said its too early to say anything definitively.  It could take many months or years of regular sweating or vasodilation to return to a more normal blood vessel vasodilation.

Long term niacin use seems kind of risky to me but i have not kept informed on that topic.




b_jim

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 03:32:01 AM »
Yes, I think there is a vaso-constriction after orgasm simply because after orgasm... i feel cold. My hand become white, like minor Raynaud's syndrome.
I think post-coital headaches and such symptoms can be easily explained by vaso-constriction. And it explain the effect of niacin, why not sauna, shower, sport...
It's a good start point. I agree.

Quote
When blood is vasodilated it is pished towards more cells and tissues, including in the brain.  So blood goes further to places it wasnt initially going to and can supply nutrients etc.

I'm not very convinced by this, but maybe you are right.
My opinion :
From the moment the body catch a cold lot of defensive mechanism are activated. So, catch up Waldinger's theory, it's not sperm allergy but orgasm itself which leads to illness state by vaso-constriction.

Now, there are point very interesting for me  :

- neurotrasmitters in sperm : dopamine and serotonine are present in sperm in rich quantities then loss by ejaculation. It may explain lot of cognitive symptoms and success with curcumin or drugs.

- role of taurine. Taurine is present in sperm. In my case it plays a major role in muscular symptomes, general energy, muscle tremors and glycemia controle  after ejacuatlion. Possible link with testosterone.



Taurine = Anti-Pois
Suffering from lyme disease

sameer7777

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 07:32:03 AM »
I AGREE WITH THIS THEORY , IS THERE ANY MEDICINES WE CAN TRY !!!!!!!!!!
pls don't expose me.
AFTER SEX/MASTERBATION (FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS)
1)BACK NECK PAIN GOES TO DOWN SPINE
2)NERVES LIKE SQUEEZED OUT
3)MORNING FEET NERVES PAIN
4)NASAL INFLAMMATION
5)BRAIN FOG
6)DEPRESSION
7)HIGH SUGAR LEVELS (TRIED INSULIN FOR 1 YEAR MAKE ME MORE SICK

Twp06242014

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 10:19:50 AM »
Yes, I think there is a vaso-constriction after orgasm simply because after orgasm... i feel cold. My hand become white, like minor Raynaud's syndrome.
I think post-coital headaches and such symptoms can be easily explained by vaso-constriction. And it explain the effect of niacin, why not sauna, shower, sport...
It's a good start point. I agree.

Quote
When blood is vasodilated it is pished towards more cells and tissues, including in the brain.  So blood goes further to places it wasnt initially going to and can supply nutrients etc.

I'm not very convinced by this, but maybe you are right.
My opinion :
From the moment the body catch a cold lot of defensive mechanism are activated. So, catch up Waldinger's theory, it's not sperm allergy but orgasm itself which leads to illness state by vaso-constriction.

Now, there are point very interesting for me  :

- neurotrasmitters in sperm : dopamine and serotonine are present in sperm in rich quantities then loss by ejaculation. It may explain lot of cognitive symptoms and success with curcumin or drugs.

- role of taurine. Taurine is present in sperm. In my case it plays a major role in muscular symptomes, general energy, muscle tremors and glycemia controle  after ejacuatlion. Possible link with testosterone.

Thanks for the reply.  One interesting note that I read is that exercise does not clear away toxins or have the same effect as sweating.  This is apparently due to the fact that exercise activates the sympathetic nervous system.

Also I agree that repeated orgasm leads to vasoconstriction. 

Twp06242014

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 10:23:07 AM »
Also I want to add that some people recommend to alternate between hot and cold to increase the Elasticity of the blood vessels, the ability to vasodilate and vasoconstriction quickly.  I would theorize that we POIS sufferers have a long term Inelastic vasoconstricted vessels.   So it's important not just to dilate but to make the vessels themselves more flexible again

sameer7777

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2014, 10:24:09 AM »
Very interesting I agree with the theory.... We must make research on this
pls don't expose me.
AFTER SEX/MASTERBATION (FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS)
1)BACK NECK PAIN GOES TO DOWN SPINE
2)NERVES LIKE SQUEEZED OUT
3)MORNING FEET NERVES PAIN
4)NASAL INFLAMMATION
5)BRAIN FOG
6)DEPRESSION
7)HIGH SUGAR LEVELS (TRIED INSULIN FOR 1 YEAR MAKE ME MORE SICK

Labyrinth

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 05:50:59 PM »
i believe that if there is vasoconstriction is secondary to pois induced activity of brain that constric blood vessels is reflexive mechanism
POIS of 10 yrs now

POISrival

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 06:50:13 PM »
This theory makes the most sense to me.

I looked up natural vasodilators and found three of things POISers have found helpful
VitB3
Garlic
olive leaf extract


http://www.highbloodpressureinfo.org/natural-vasodilators.html

and here in this one spanich is mentioned
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-the-different-types-of-natural-vasodilators.htm

You also might wanna check this post i made, It goes hand in hand with your theory
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1290.msg12014#msg12014
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 06:58:27 PM by Meha »
POIS is my worst enemy

berlin1984

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 12:02:55 PM »
Trying to link with the CFS theories..

The Blood Vessel Crunch: A Unifying Hypothesis for ME/CFS
http://simmaronresearch.com/2020/05/blood-vessel-crunch-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
"Could an autoimmune process attacking the B2 adrenergic receptor be causing the symptoms of ME/CFS?"
"This dysbalance between vasoconstrictor and vasodilator forces ? with the vasoconstrictors winning ? triggers the release of  painful vasodilating substances in an attempt to open the blood vessels."
" They believe that just about every symptom in ME/CFS could be caused when vasodilatory substances spill over into the general circulation, around the muscles, the lymph nodes, the gut and the bladder.
Provided that enough of these vasodilatory substances were present, every stress on the cardiovascular system could result in fatigue, pain, flu-like systems etc."
"Even mental stress, they believe, could cause pain by triggering the sympathetic nervous system to clamp down further on the blood vessels of the skeletal muscles, causing them to emit vasodilators in an attempt to get more blood, and producing pain, flu-like symptoms, etc"


The quotes are my own pickings, maybe someone with more knowledge (I never thought about the vaso-things) about biology and medicine could read and check if there is paralleism with POIS.

slon_ik

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2020, 06:15:01 PM »
Trying to link with the CFS theories..

The Blood Vessel Crunch: A Unifying Hypothesis for ME/CFS
http://simmaronresearch.com/2020/05/blood-vessel-crunch-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
"Could an autoimmune process attacking the B2 adrenergic receptor be causing the symptoms of ME/CFS?"
"This dysbalance between vasoconstrictor and vasodilator forces ? with the vasoconstrictors winning ? triggers the release of  painful vasodilating substances in an attempt to open the blood vessels."
" They believe that just about every symptom in ME/CFS could be caused when vasodilatory substances spill over into the general circulation, around the muscles, the lymph nodes, the gut and the bladder.
Provided that enough of these vasodilatory substances were present, every stress on the cardiovascular system could result in fatigue, pain, flu-like systems etc."
"Even mental stress, they believe, could cause pain by triggering the sympathetic nervous system to clamp down further on the blood vessels of the skeletal muscles, causing them to emit vasodilators in an attempt to get more blood, and producing pain, flu-like symptoms, etc"


The quotes are my own pickings, maybe someone with more knowledge (I never thought about the vaso-things) about biology and medicine could read and check if there is paralleism with POIS.

Да, я считаю что сосуды однозначно связаны с POIS.

Сразу надо заметить, что сообщения выше про разные способы сужения и расширения сосудов весьма индивидуальны и малоэффективны )) Дело в том, что сосуды разной толщины имеют разные механизмы  сужения и расширения. И в разных частях тела сужение сосудов идёт независимо друг от друга. А POIS это проблема с сосудами в определенных местах, к примеру в голове. И как сжимать сосуды именно в голове, и больше нигде? Ниацин и сауна не избирательны.

И более того, POIS это не просто расширение сосудов, а именно перепад с быстрого сужения на быстрое расширение. И что делать в этом случае вообще не понятно ))

Но это все следствие. А причина в сбое регуляции стресса эякуляции. Этот сбой ведет к излишнему воспалению. И это воспаление проявляется в области сосудов, как расширение капилляров, чтобы воспалительные агенты выходили из крови в органы. В голове это вызывает туман. В других частях тела это индивидуальные воспаления разных органов, или же состояние гриппа. Это все хорошо изучено и в этом нет сбоя. Сбой именно в регуляции воспаления в гипоталамусе.

И теперь если мы будем пытаться лечить это воспаление, то ничего не выйдет. Потому что это лишь следствие. И надо заметить, что организм и сам компенсирует это воспаление. К примеру,  у многих наблюдается гипоксия, мы слабо дышим. Но если начинаем дышать сильнее, чтобы устроить гипервентиляцию, то усиливаются симптомы POIS, усиливается воспаление.

Кому то помогают НПВС , но и там свои побочки.

В общем, сосуды однозначно в теме, но диагностика и лечение тут малоэффективны.


Yes, I believe that vessels are uniquely associated with POIS.

It should be noted right away that the messages above about different ways of narrowing and dilating blood vessels are very individual and ineffective)) The fact is that vessels of different thicknesses have different mechanisms of narrowing and expansion. And in different parts of the body, vasoconstriction occurs independently of each other. POIS is a problem with blood vessels in certain places, for example, in the head. And how to constrict blood vessels in the head, and nowhere else? Niacin and sauna are not selective.

Moreover, POIS is not just a vasodilatation, but a change from rapid constriction to rapid expansion. And what to do in this case is not clear at all))

But this is all a consequence. And the reason is a malfunction in the regulation of ejaculation stress. This failure leads to unnecessary inflammation. And this inflammation manifests itself in the area of ​​blood vessels, as an expansion of capillaries, so that inflammatory agents are released from the blood to the organs. It creates a fog in the head. In other parts of the body, these are individual inflammations of different organs, or the condition of the flu. This is all well studied and there is no glitch in it. Failure is in the regulation of inflammation in the hypothalamus.

And now if we try to treat this inflammation, then nothing will come of it. Because this is only a consequence. And it should be noted that the body itself compensates for this inflammation. For example, many people have hypoxia, we breathe poorly. But if we start breathing harder to create hyperventilation, then POIS symptoms intensify, inflammation intensifies.

Someone is helped by NSAIDs, but there are also side effects.

In general, the vessels are definitely in the subject, but diagnosis and treatment are ineffective here.

Journey

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2020, 01:58:05 AM »
What's root cause?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 02:40:54 AM by Journey »

berlin1984

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2020, 01:18:27 PM »

Cursed

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Re: Blood vessel theory
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2020, 08:45:11 AM »
What's root cause?

My guess is that it's autoimmunity against adrenergic receptors, which leads to failure of appropriate vasomotor control leading to symptoms.