Author Topic: Possible cause of pois  (Read 5534 times)

MrVat7

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Possible cause of pois
« on: December 07, 2013, 03:06:13 AM »
-->A possible clue that may cause POIS.

People who had vasectomy had reported having symptoms similar to POIS, Also people who had put sperm into their bloodstream. When sperm enters into bloodstream body treats it like a foreign material and body's immune system fights to kill it. If a person who has POIS has somehow a open duct to blood (possible in the vas deferens ) so whenever a person gets an O, sperm get into blood. Howsoever small quantity. Sperm in the CNS are attacked by antibodies which also kills (or damage ) receptors. If so happens cognition, memory , flue like symptoms gets on.

If sperm gets into blood it can also cause neurodegenerative disorders in later life, like Multiple sclerosis. Above theory exactly fits POIS symptoms and those caused by sperm in blood.

I am planning for getting blood checkup. I'll get the updates on.

FloppyBanana

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 04:11:28 AM »

If sperm gets into blood it can also cause neurodegenerative disorders in later life, like Multiple sclerosis.

As I understand it there no evidence to suggest that POIS causes Multiple sclerosis (MS). I have never heard of any POIS sufferer getting MS. Please refrain from making such wild statements and consider the impact it may have to newcomers to this forum. It may scare them.
FB
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

FoxyTree

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2021, 08:42:13 PM »
In short, I believe MS and POIS to both be immune disregulation disorders and like Austism spectrum disorder (sorry last name i've heard of) are likely if not the "same disorder" they are 'cousin' disorders which have similar or the same treatments ultimately.
My Wife has Multiple Sclerosis (clinical Diag 2007), and experiences most of the symptoms of POIS after orgasm, with symptoms going away, some suddenly, others gradually, for 3-7 days after orgasm.
She has had these POIS symptoms since at least 1997, her MS was diagnosed in 2007, but at least 1 neurologist has told us, the initial onset of the Multiple Sclerosis could have been as early as the early 1990s when my wife recalls having unexplained numbness, weakness, and tingling in her fingers, with associated fogginess of thought, and a general feeling of malaise unassociated with any other physical or mental conditions (e.g. not associated with her period, with an injury, etc.)
This is of course just my wife's story, and if POIS is like most diseases, it is better classified as "a grouping of symptoms that seem to have a common source/cause(s)" much like Autism has gone through a varied change in it's definition and classification.  As such, it would align with Multiple Sclerosis, which is itself, more of a spectrum disorder than a cut-and-dry disorder.  Multiple sclerosis is widely believed to be caused by one or more immune disfunctions where in the myelin shealth protecting nerve cells is attacked by the immune system resulting in damage up to complete destruction of the shealthing. Much like electrical cords in our houses and devices, the nervous systems does not function well when its "wires" are uninsulated and thus can short circuit in any number of ways.
In my wife's case, there is the "baseline" disfunction she seems to have from her Multiple Sclerosis (MS) which includes issues with cognition and motor function as well as overall physical and mental fatigue and weakness in specific muscle groups.  While there is some variation in the severity of the various MS related symptoms from hour to hour and day to day, they fluctuate little outside of her going through a stressful event such as having her period, having to be outside in hot weather, exercising more than normal, etc. resulting in a fairly predictible set of limitations we can plan our lives around.
Then there are the group of symptoms she has starting about 1 minute after an orgasm and which stay last at a level of "this is effecting my everyday life" for 3-7 days.  These symptoms include worsening of what appears to be some of the same symptoms she suffers with daily as part of what has been attributed as "MS symptoms" (e.g. fatigue, motor control issues, specific muscle weakness, brain fog, cognitive issues, etc.) as well as some which could be MS symptoms, but which are only experienced during these 3-7 days post orgasm, and a third set which are symptoms which we strongly believe have zero connection to MS as they are as strong now as they were 10 years PRIOR to the MS diagnosis.
One theory is that my wife suffers from some combination of disorders related to autoimmunity. If a person's immune system is disregulated, misformed, or in some way not functioning as we understand to be "normally." Abnormal immune systems can be unpredictable to even the most experienced medical professionals, let alone the average person.  Now if you add in the fact the medical profession is coming out more and more frequently with "corrective" statements regarding disorders and diseases (e.g. Autism's progress from single disorder to spectrum, etc.), it is no wonder we have so much confusion about which disease causes which symptoms and what disorder I do or do not have all so I can try to treat myself in a manner that improves my life to a better place past the current suffering/limitations/etc. I am experiencing now.
As such, I can't see why the two can't be connected, and in fact, may simply be different expressions of the same illness at the root, just expressing themselves via different mechanisms. It could also be that there is a synergistic relationship between the two.
With my wife, she has in the past, experienced fatigue after orgasm. Then again, she also experiences fatigue after what most people would call a 'very short walk around the block' level of exercise, which may at worse, raise a slight sweat on even a very out of shape person.  Could it be that her immune system is simply "out of sorts" due to past traumas on that system from various life experiences (really bad night on the town, having surgery, etc.) and that basically a Hard Reset is required.  Until then, the immune system may be so disregulated and outside of normal function that not only does it view everyday stresses onthe body and the subsequent chemical releases inside the body (e.g. Cortisol, adrenaline, hormones, etc.) are viewed as something "bad" which this disregulated immune system sees as a threat to which it must respond.  Then in its disregulated response, the disregulated immune system attacks parts of the body instead of "real" intruders like bacteria or virus.  If this is the case, then couldn't it be that, as some have suggested, one of the triggers for this disregulated response is one or more chemicals introduced into the body at or around the time of orgasm (hormones, GABA, etc.).
I am certainly no expert on POIS, but I would say with 99% certainty, my wife suffers from it as well as suffering from clinically diagnosed MS (lesions visible on MRI's, etc.)

Progecitor

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2021, 01:08:52 AM »
You may want to consider some of the information that I picked up along the way of research.
If your wife has a stable condition with medications she probably shouldn't go around trying a variety of supplements, but if she wanted to ameliorate her POIS symptoms as well than these appear safe with MS.

Keep in mind that I had a very very bad response to biotin, but others claim it to be useful. Artemisinin had a somewhat positive effect in my case and another POISer claimed that it can alleviate brain fog. One example of SIRT1 activator is resveratrol for which I have a very good response, but it doesn't work for everyone. Thus POIS is probably a much more heterogeneous disease than MS and it is hard to extrapolate anything reliable.

Furthermore, both the IL-12/Th1 as well as IL-23/Th17 responses although essential for generating immunity against pathogens have also been shown to play a major role in numerous inflammatory diseases. For example, excessive Th1 responses are associated with multiple sclerosis, Crohn's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and crescentic glomerulonephritis. A distinctive positive clinical response to very high-dose biotin supplementation has been reported in multiple sclerosis.
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpcell.00141.2016

Since, artemisinin can shift the immune responses from Th1 to Th2, therefore, it can be helpful in the treatment of multiple sclerosis (MS) after more investigation.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08923973.2017.1379087

SIRT1 has been linked to immune-related diseases such as tumors and autoimmune diseases and was decreased in the PBMCs of multiple sclerosis patients during relapses.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2021.726751/full
The cause is probably a combination of autoimmunity and SASP leading to excessive oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation. Antioxidants, testosterone, NO and norepinephrine boosters, ERbeta, sigma-1, SIRT-1 and dopamine agonists, PDE4, PDE5 inhibitors and CD36 antagonists are effective.

FoxyTree

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2021, 07:35:03 PM »
You may want to consider some of the information that I picked up along the way of research.
If your wife has a stable condition with medications she probably shouldn't go around trying a variety of supplements, but if she wanted to ameliorate her POIS symptoms as well than these appear safe with MS.

....

Unfortunately, my wife's MS is not as stable as it once was. She has a set back over the last few years, starting just prior to COVID hitting and continuing on through today, which just happens to be the worse day she's had in about 2 years.  No signs of an infection or anything, just seems to have worn herself out and needs some rest.

I will research these, but to be honest, she seems to not do so well on supplements.
Thank you for all your advice.

porthos

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2022, 02:56:01 PM »
I agree with this theory.... i suffer from pois ofer 10 years.... and i found out why i have POIS not because any thing wrong on my body not because im missing something its just Urinary tract health...once i got something chemical since then my urinary tract is soooo weak i should take care like a baby.... Avoiding soaps avoiding anything chemical and even mastrubating when i mastrubate too often the urinary tract gets irritated which causes again to pois. an example even lubricants are bad for my urinary tract AVOID THAT ! so when your urinary tract gots irritated the semen enters your blood vessels somehow and there it starts my pois. After 2 months of taking extramely care of my urinary tract i get my health back no pois.... ALmost forgot sometimes women has bad vaginal flora because they wash it with soap or something they get the same reactions but no pois symptoms like men do :)  dont be silly with chemicals

Progecitor

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2022, 04:49:20 PM »
You may want to consider some of the information that I picked up along the way of research.
If your wife has a stable condition with medications she probably shouldn't go around trying a variety of supplements, but if she wanted to ameliorate her POIS symptoms as well than these appear safe with MS.

....

Unfortunately, my wife's MS is not as stable as it once was. She has a set back over the last few years, starting just prior to COVID hitting and continuing on through today, which just happens to be the worse day she's had in about 2 years.  No signs of an infection or anything, just seems to have worn herself out and needs some rest.

I will research these, but to be honest, she seems to not do so well on supplements.
Thank you for all your advice.

You may also want to read these. Given that resveratrol is also considered an estrogen receptor beta ligand it could be one of the best supplements for MS. The pregnancy hormone estriol was also proven beneficial for MS in clinical trials. Estriol preferentially activates estrogen receptor beta.

Estrogen receptor beta ligand treatment after disease onset is neuroprotective in the multiple sclerosis model
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jnr.23219

Testosterone and estrogen in multiple sclerosis: from pathophysiology to therapeutics
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14737175.2018.1481390

I hope she gets better!
The cause is probably a combination of autoimmunity and SASP leading to excessive oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation. Antioxidants, testosterone, NO and norepinephrine boosters, ERbeta, sigma-1, SIRT-1 and dopamine agonists, PDE4, PDE5 inhibitors and CD36 antagonists are effective.

berlin1984

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2022, 03:52:09 PM »
Avoiding soaps avoiding anything chemical

Interesting you write that. I'm not using soap except for washing my hands, when showering I only use it for under my armpits.
I don't use shampoo either.

Still I have some (sometimes a lot) POIS symptoms, so I think for me POIS is not an UTI but some other disbalance in the body.

However I agree with you that semen microbiome (and whatever other microbiome is down there) should be look at more...

Do you think you changed sometime else than the soap? Diet? Lifestyle? Stress? Antibiotics?

Maybe you can also post to https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4012 ?

porthos

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2022, 08:14:34 PM »
Avoiding soaps avoiding anything chemical

Interesting you write that. I'm not using soap except for washing my hands, when showering I only use it for under my armpits.
I don't use shampoo either.

Still I have some (sometimes a lot) POIS symptoms, so I think for me POIS is not an UTI but some other disbalance in the body.

However I agree with you that semen microbiome (and whatever other microbiome is down there) should be look at more...

Do you think you changed sometime else than the soap? Diet? Lifestyle? Stress? Antibiotics?

Maybe you can also post to https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4012 ?


Nope i suffer from pois over 10 years and i figured out in this 10 years only thing that causing me pois = Mastrubating or any chemicals including condom, lubricants, shampoo...
An example i overdosed my jacuzzi with chloor tablets result= POIS

My skin gets irritated with a chemical inside a creme that i put on my face... MY hands became like ORC hand because i use handsoap.... my body is over sensetive for many chemicals and if this touches your UTI game over for me....

FernandoPOIS

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 08:46:35 AM »
We can stick to the fact that in most cases there is a pre-existing (but undiagnosed) component of stress, ADHD, anxiety or inflammation.

Note that in all cases there is a dopamine deficit that leads to a cascade of symptoms.

Without dopamine our vessels are dilated, we don't produce serotonin, we don't have focus.

Acetylcholine becomes predominant, favoring inflammation and hyperactivity of the parasympathetic system.

Added to all this is the fact that vasoconstrictor drugs, antihistamines and CNS stimulants or alcohol help with symptoms and the account is closed.

We must try to reorganize our body, treat possible inflammation or mental disorders and regain the joy of living so that we can produce dopamine again.

In my specific case, I've noticed that when I have an orgasm with more blood flow to the penis, when it gets more rigid and I can keep it rigid for longer before orgasm, I don't have symptoms of POIS. This may be related to the sperm passage site, which is more prone to the passage of semen and thus does not allow the passage of semen into the vessels (possible theory).
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. My POIS is related to me mood and the health of my cervical spine. Dopamine/Inflammation/Body constitution (genetics) are factors that contribute to POIS.

BoneBroth

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2022, 09:25:13 AM »
Not to forget that POIS inflammation cascade might interfere with the intestinal linage which might leak additionally substances to the blood. I think POIS interfere with so many systems that releases harmful substances to the blood that eventually you will end up with a soup of substances that all add to the inflammation and autoimmuity symptoms.

But there is surely a "parent" substance (or lack of such) that is released on O, that has not yet been identified in the blood tests we have yet made. And I belive the answer lies in the hormonal spectrum. That spectrum has to be analysed in much more depth. The answer is in there, in the blood!

FernandoPOIS

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2022, 11:31:43 AM »
After orgasm there is a marked decrease in dopamine and for those who already have low dopamine, there is an almost total depletion.

There is still the issue of testosterone, which in cases of low dopamine may also be low or if it is at normal levels it may not be performing its function correctly due to the various hormonal interactions.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. My POIS is related to me mood and the health of my cervical spine. Dopamine/Inflammation/Body constitution (genetics) are factors that contribute to POIS.

porthos

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2022, 05:10:49 PM »
After orgasm there is a marked decrease in dopamine and for those who already have low dopamine, there is an almost total depletion.

There is still the issue of testosterone, which in cases of low dopamine may also be low or if it is at normal levels it may not be performing its function correctly due to the various hormonal interactions.

I dont think its testosterone related.... yes testosterone gets low because guess why? we are depressed and sad all the time of course there is no way of normal level of testosterone. and first thing that doctors see is low testosterone... anybody that suffers from something and thats sad or depressed will get low testosterone levels...

demografx

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Re: Possible cause of pois
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2022, 09:18:54 PM »
After orgasm there is a marked decrease in dopamine and for those who already have low dopamine, there is an almost total depletion.

There is still the issue of testosterone, which in cases of low dopamine may also be low or if it is at normal levels it may not be performing its function correctly due to the various hormonal interactions.

I dont think its testosterone related.... yes testosterone gets low because guess why? we are depressed and sad all the time of course there is no way of normal level of testosterone. and first thing that doctors see is low testosterone... anybody that suffers from something and thats sad or depressed will get low testosterone levels...

Testosterone has been my (and other POISers’) primary treatment for
POIS - - in my case for the last 11 years.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=17.0
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 01:41:30 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of weekly (52 weeks/year) testosterone self-injections.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.