Fungal Infection

[Nightingale]

It's a coincidence, or it's not, but I've had worsening mood problems and have just experienced an explosion of rash around my testes.  For 2 years I've been keeping at bay a persistent rash between my right thigh and testes.  In the past few weeks I've tried numerous medications with a new doctor in hopes of finding some relief.  I didn't find anything that worked, and in the aftermath of these medications I've been in a renewed struggle against anxiety, nervousness, and depression.  In the last two days, the rash has spread to my whole scrotum.  I've started taking garlic and using coconut oil on the affected areas.  I just wanted to move the existing conversation about this stuff into it's own thread for better access to those who are not aware of what's going on in other threads regarding this topic.

I will be talking with my doc next week and hopefully will get some nystatin prescribed

[Daveman]

It's a coincidence, or it's not, but I've had worsening mood problems and have just experienced an explosion of rash around my testes.  For 2 years I've been keeping at bay a persistent rash between my right thigh and testes.  In the past few weeks I've tried numerous medications with a new doctor in hopes of finding some relief.  I didn't find anything that worked, and in the aftermath of these medications I've been in a renewed struggle against anxiety, nervousness, and depression.  In the last two days, the rash has spread to my whole scrotum.  I've started taking garlic and using coconut oil on the affected areas.  I just wanted to move the existing conversation about this stuff into it's own thread for better access to those who are not aware of what's going on in other threads regarding this topic.

I will be talking with my doc next week and hopefully will get some nystatin prescribed

I "feel" as though it's not fungal. I have the same (similar) thing, and it only flares up around POIS time. So my impression is that it is related to some auto'immune reaction in the area. I don't want to use the word allergy, it doesn't quite click.

For me, anti-fungus treatments don't touch it. Corticoid based ointments have the best effect, also hemorroid ointments seem to help for a few days

I don't know, it could be a semi-dormant fungus infection that is "awoken" by something in POIS, or maybe even a virus with similar characteristics to herpes, that gets riled up with POIS type inflammation.

[kurtosis]

Ask your doctor about Eraxis also. From reading some papers it seems to be at least as effective and possibly more for treating invasive candidiasis.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa066906
That being an example of a systemic fungal infection. I'm not saying that we haven or haven't candidiasis It's almost impossible to talk to doctors about this stuff anyway. Some believe it's a completely quack diagnosis (even when presented with lots of the famous discharge) and others (often coming from an alternative medical background) see it everywhere. The truth is probably somewhere in between the 2 extremes of opinion.

[kurtosis]

Well, I hate to bring it all back to acetaldehyde but histamine is released during an O. The body either stores or deactivates histamine quickly. The deactivation process (which applies in the brain and the skin) involves aldehyde dehydrogenase, which everyone knows from reading the dopamine thread is produced in a less efficient form when the "asian flush" mutation to their ALDH genes. This does not mean that everybody with an ALDH mutation has asian flush.

The primary goal of histamine inactivation is its conversion to metabolites that will not activate histamine receptors and this is achieved either by methylation or by oxidation. The products of the alternative routes of histamine inactivation are further metabolized. N-methylhistamine is oxidatively deaminated to N-methylimidazole acetaldehyde by mitochondrial monoamine oxidases (MAO) and then oxidized by aldehyde dehydrogenases to the N-methylimidazole acetic acid. Imidazole acetaldehyde, the product of the DAO reaction, is also oxidized to imidazole acetic acid by aldehyde dehydrogenase and subsequently ribosylated for efficient transport.

The methyl group of N-methylimidazole acetic acid is received from SAMe. So taking extra methionine or SAMe may help POIS rashes and symptoms in conjunction with extra niacin.

Also from http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Histamine.aspx

Histamine released into the synapses is broken down by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. It is the deficiency of this enzyme that triggers an allergic reaction as histamines pool in the synapses. Histamine is broken down by histamine-N-methyltransferase and diamine oxidase. Some forms of foodborne disease, so-called "food poisonings," are due to conversion of histidine into histamine in spoiled food, such as fish.

So this suggests another mechanism by which POIS may be treated i.e. the reduction of the histamine release upon orgasm by desensitisation treatment.
What I'm getting at here is that while it seems like we may all be suffering from different things because the treatments are so varied and seemingly different, it could all be the same thing - some ALDH mutation - in which case we should all take a bit of supplementary niacin and methionine no matter what else we're doing

It can't hurt and as Bruce Ames (a legendary Biochemist in UC Berkley) points out in http://chemistry.beloit.edu/Ordman/classes/cls/reading/Ames.pdf

"you can feed people niacin and raise NAD levels"

which reduces the effects of an ALDH transcription problem. Niacin may have the dual effect of 1) reducing histamine reserves that would be released in the brain during an O 2) increasing the effectiveness of a mutated gene-produced aldehyde dehydrogenase.

POIS sufferers may get a benefit from both 1 and 2.
There could also be many paths to POIS symptoms developing or becoming obvious including bacterial infection, systemic fungal infection, autoimmune illness etc. Depending on diet, lifestyle and degree of ALDH mutation, someone may always have POIS or have a latent POIS which they develop following a period of stress/illness.

Just a theory!
Has anyone tried SAMe versus l-methionine and what were the results?

[Nightingale]

Well as i'm sitting here typing this I've got a mashed up garlic clove taped to my nuts    I have been shocked as to how fast this rash/fungus/bacterium/x has spread, so I'm trying some things I've not done before.  I thought I had this under control, as I had been washing the affected areas with Hibiclens and seen a reduction in it.  Then boom, right in the middle of ongoing treatment it gets worse...

That's new information for me on the histamine.  I am on the lookout for more established connections to show my doctor, because he is interested in this disease but is needing some help with some of these theories since his focus is on psychiatry.  If I am able to get him to follow some of these ideas, he has numerous connections at the NIH he could refer me to.

I'm having a bad day with my congnitive symptoms, so I'm not writing too well lol

[Ccconfucius]

Is white tongue a good indication of candida infection or just presence  in intestinal track.  My tongue becomes more red as i cut carbs..
I also have this spots allover my stomach,dont know what they are.  I wonder if it is fungal.

[Ccconfucius]

A natruopath/md prescribed candex and grape fruit seed extract for killing off candida in intestine.  Just checked there is no real research on it but for those who can't get prescription it might worth try.
Candex works by destroying fungal cell walls.

[kurtosis]

Well as i'm sitting here typing this I've got a mashed up garlic clove taped to my nuts    I have been shocked as to how fast this rash/fungus/bacterium/x has spread, so I'm trying some things I've not done before.  I thought I had this under control, as I had been washing the affected areas with Hibiclens and seen a reduction in it.  Then boom, right in the middle of ongoing treatment it gets worse...

That's new information for me on the histamine.  I am on the lookout for more established connections to show my doctor, because he is interested in this disease but is needing some help with some of these theories since his focus is on psychiatry.  If I am able to get him to follow some of these ideas, he has numerous connections at the NIH he could refer me to.

I'm having a bad day with my congnitive symptoms, so I'm not writing too well lol

Hey nightingale. Don't worry about how you're expressing yourself. It seems fine to me
Garlic might be a great anti-fungal but will actually burn your skin. It might not be a good idea to tape it to any part of your body. It has blistered my fingers on more than one occasion.

The histamine connection is that you may or may not have a genetic acetaldehyde metabolism problem BUT if you're producing too much histamine then you're using up your acetaldehyde dehydrogenase inactivating the histamine. Some of the orthomolecular researchers refer to under-methylation where they argue that some people have high histamine. This is a good thing if your histamine is a bit more than normal as it gives you a competitive edge. Apparently, it's common in athletes and high achievers in science and commerce. They orthomolecular researchers claimed it's bad if the histamine is too great or is getting deactivated too slowly which happens in about 15-20% of undermethylators.

Dr. Bill Walsh is one of the guys who still researches this along with the Linus Pauling institute. Most of mainstream medicine had decided it was nonsense but then Professor Bruce Ames in Berkley put together a body of research suggesting that mainstream medical researchers were writing it off to quickly and suggesting that supplementation of various vitamins and amino acids may improve or stabilise chemical processes in the body thrown into disarray by illness or genetic mutation (of coenzymes like ALDH for instance).

So it really depends what's causing the rash. If it's fungal then anti-fungal treatment is the best option. If it isn't fungal then it could be a high histamine and acetaldehyde metabolising issue. I'm only hell bent on the anti-fungals because I have an obvious fungal infection. I'm suggesting that anybody with POIS may have an infection and it may contribute to POIS or it may be coincidental or happen because POIS has weakened their immune system. Lots of possibilities. Either way, I don't want to take my NADH again until next week when the course of anti-fungals has finished and I'm taking the anti-fungals because of obvious fungus

For example, Daveman says he puts corticosteroids on his rash to reduce it. That's indicative of a histamine release, not a fungal infection.

I'm still taking ginkgo. It contains quercetin which appears to be a mast cell stabiliser, reducing histamine release. It's cheap and safe.
I'd suggest that if you can rule out a fungal infection with your doctor then add the NADH and some D-Ribose every day. Both of those increase energy, decrease fatigue and assist a range of chemical reactions in the body.

It seems to be the most effective of the b3 forms for me anyway. A small amount (just a few mg) seems to go a huge way.

[kurtosis]

Not familiar with grapefruit seed extract. I've heard of Candex but never tried it. Eraxis is a drug which works to inhibit glucan synthase. Basically, it inhibits and damages fungal cell walls.

[Nightingale]

Hey nightingale. Don't worry about how you're expressing yourself. It seems fine to me
Garlic might be a great anti-fungal but will actually burn your skin. It might not be a good idea to tape it to any part of your body. It has blistered my fingers on more than one occasion.

Thanks for the forewarning.  I took the garlic off

The histamine connection is that you may or may not have a genetic acetaldehyde metabolism problem BUT if you're producing too much histamine then you're using up your acetaldehyde dehydrogenase inactivating the histamine. Some of the orthomolecular researchers refer to under-methylation where they argue that some people have high histamine. This is a good thing if your histamine is a bit more than normal as it gives you a competitive edge. Apparently, it's common in athletes and high achievers in science and commerce. They orthomolecular researchers claimed it's bad if the histamine is too great or is getting deactivated too slowly which happens in about 15-20% of undermethylators.

Dr. Bill Walsh is one of the guys who still researches this along with the Linus Pauling institute. Most of mainstream medicine had decided it was nonsense but then Professor Bruce Ames in Berkley put together a body of research suggesting that mainstream medical researchers were writing it off to quickly and suggesting that supplementation of various vitamins and amino acids may improve or stabilise chemical processes in the body thrown into disarray by illness or genetic mutation (of coenzymes like ALDH for instance).

So it really depends what's causing the rash. If it's fungal then anti-fungal treatment is the best option. If it isn't fungal then it could be a high histamine and acetaldehyde metabolising issue. I'm only hell bent on the anti-fungals because I have an obvious fungal infection. I'm suggesting that anybody with POIS may have an infection and it may contribute to POIS or it may be coincidental or happen because POIS has weakened their immune system. Lots of possibilities. Either way, I don't want to take my NADH again until next week when the course of anti-fungals has finished and I'm taking the anti-fungals because of obvious fungus

For example, Daveman says he puts corticosteroids on his rash to reduce it. That's indicative of a histamine release, not a fungal infection.

I'm still taking ginkgo. It contains quercetin which appears to be a mast cell stabiliser, reducing histamine release. It's cheap and safe.
I'd suggest that if you can rule out a fungal infection with your doctor then add the NADH and some D-Ribose every day. Both of those increase energy, decrease fatigue and assist a range of chemical reactions in the body.

It seems to be the most effective of the b3 forms for me anyway. A small amount (just a few mg) seems to go a huge way.

That's some useful info about histamine.  I think that would be a good angle to approach my doc with.  I'm overall feeling worse than I have in a year or so, as far as my mood, anxiety, and impulsive thoughts.  Im glad I'm seeing my trusted primary care doc this coming week.

[abud]

i have a fungal infection as well and everytime i have an orgasm i get Boils growing around my Genitals Usually in my thighs the same day

i believe that what we have is yeast infection because everytime i eat bread i feel the pois symptoms
i've cut all bread from my diet and i felt much better the brainfog and the headaches stopped,
also most of pois treatment i've read about and some im using (garlic-fenugreek-olive leaf-niacin) have antifungal properties
what im taking right now is fenugreek and olive leaf and zinc also im gonna try niacin which i just read that its a strong antifungal i believe it stopped the fungal growth durning orgasim that why it helps alot of people
(sorry if my english is bad)

[demografx]

abud, welcome to The POIS Forum!

Here are some helpful POIS info resources for you:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg1#msg1

[Ccconfucius]

i have a fungal infection as well and everytime i have an orgasm i get Boils growing around my Genitals Usually in my thighs the same day

i believe that what we have is yeast infection because everytime i eat bread i feel the pois symptoms
i've cut all bread from my diet and i felt much better the brainfog and the headaches stopped,
also most of pois treatment i've read about and some im using (garlic-fenugreek-olive leaf-niacin) have antifungal properties
what im taking right now is fenugreek and olive leaf and zinc also im gonna try niacin which i just read that its a strong antifungal i believe it stopped the fungal growth durning orgasim that why it helps alot of people
(sorry if my english is bad)

If those bumps around genitals are fungal then i guess i have fungal. Mine comes and go maybe it does have something to do with bread i will check.

[kurtosis]

i have a fungal infection as well and everytime i have an orgasm i get Boils growing around my Genitals Usually in my thighs the same day

i believe that what we have is yeast infection because everytime i eat bread i feel the pois symptoms
i've cut all bread from my diet and i felt much better the brainfog and the headaches stopped,
also most of pois treatment i've read about and some im using (garlic-fenugreek-olive leaf-niacin) have antifungal properties
what im taking right now is fenugreek and olive leaf and zinc also im gonna try niacin which i just read that its a strong antifungal i believe it stopped the fungal growth durning orgasim that why it helps alot of people
(sorry if my english is bad)

I'm not convinced we all have yeast infections. I believe that we may be more prone to infections because our immune system is weakened by high levels of histamine which over time lead to fatigue and reduced immune function. In this theory, we may have both genetic and environmental factors which initially lead to difficulties in reducing histamine levels. We'd show symptoms of many allergies simply because it is impossible to live and not take in allergens.

Some of us may have yeast infections but fixing them won't solve all our problems.
Orgasms are huge histamine releases and, hence, the symptoms would get worse at this time. There are histamine receptors in the brain which can effectively reduce production of other neurotransmitters (and lead to problems thinking) as well as creating flu-like symptoms.
In this theory niacin may help reduce the symptoms of histamine release on our cognitive functions by diverting a histamine release into our skin. Niacinamide may stabilise our mast cells.
Niacin and Niacinamide also increase levels of NAD which helps the body remove toxic metabolites of histamine and some other neurotransmitters. (called aldehydes).
GABA has a calming effect on our brains and helps us deal with excess histamine. Testosterone and steroids which reduce inflammation would help reduce the effects of an orgasm.
Methionine and various methyl donors like L-methionine, TMG and SAMe would reduce the amount of histamine over time. To do this they require b vitamins.
It's more complicated than that but there are long posts elsewhere on the forum describing the ideas.

2nd and 3rd generation anti-histamines are generally selective to only one type of histamine receptor and simply will not work to reduce cognitive symptoms. They may reduce flu-like symptoms but the feeling of mental "deadness" that comes with an O can't be treated by them. They can't as they're designed not to. This is my theory. Everything I currently take to deal with POIS is based around it.

[Nightingale]

In this theory niacin may help reduce the symptoms of histamine release on our cognitive functions by diverting a histamine release into our skin.

Wow,  talk about a missing link!  This sounds very plausible, what sources can you cite that back this up?

[kurtosis]

In this theory niacin may help reduce the symptoms of histamine release on our cognitive functions by diverting a histamine release into our skin.

Wow,  talk about a missing link!  This sounds very plausible, what sources can you cite that back this up?

I read that in an orthmolecular book by Hoffer ages ago and if you google niacin and orgasms you'll find links to several sites that mention the histamine release. Is that correct? I don't know. There's an often quoted study that shows minimal serum levels of histamine increase following taking niacin but significant PGD2.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full#ref-16

I haven't seen replications of this study so there's always the possibility they got it wrong or couldn't accurately measure levels of histamine in the skin. For example, increased salivation which is noted during the niacin flush has been historically associated with histamine release and it's difficult to base all results on a "rat model" as people and rats are not 100% identical. Although some people.. only kidding.

To summarise, it's a guess. Another guess is that a PGD2 flush cause by niacin inhibits some histamine release following an O, which if the POIS sufferer had too much histamine may reduce the effects of histamine reaching H3 receptors in the brain and triggering some kind of neurotransmitter shut down. The weird feeling that your brain has stopped functioning properly and memories are difficult to retrieve.

See https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/98/1/98_1_90/_pdf
for interactions between PGD2 and histamine in mice. Interesting paper.
I don't think it's an accident that the niacin flush involves mast cells which would release histamine during an O. It could be that the niacin flush gives a window where we can have an orgasm with reduced levels of serum histamine.
I wonder did Dr Waldinger measure serum histamine levels before and after an O. The interpretations of the levels may be different but the result would be the same

[kurtosis]

Interesting idea though. The histamine release is much faster than the PGD2 release which can continue for 30 minutes in mice..
See http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01973836?LI=true
So does the niacin produce some of the affects of an O but done in different circumstances such that they're not damaging while the PGD2 increase then cancels out the bad effects when you have an orgasm.
Interesting idea.

[abud]

I'm not convinced we all have yeast infections. I believe that we may be more prone to infections because our immune system is weakened by high levels of histamine which over time lead to fatigue and reduced immune function. In this theory, we may have both genetic and environmental factors which initially lead to difficulties in reducing histamine levels. We'd show symptoms of many allergies simply because it is impossible to live and not take in allergens.

that makes sense

i geuss im unfortunate to have fungal infection and pois, i forget to mention i had this fungal infection before i started masterbation and it kept getting worse(i did an abscess surgery in my ass a year ago) so as you said the immune system is weakning and its harder to fight infections,
thank you kurtosis.

[kurtosis]

I'm not convinced we all have yeast infections. I believe that we may be more prone to infections because our immune system is weakened by high levels of histamine which over time lead to fatigue and reduced immune function. In this theory, we may have both genetic and environmental factors which initially lead to difficulties in reducing histamine levels. We'd show symptoms of many allergies simply because it is impossible to live and not take in allergens.

that makes sense

i geuss im unfortunate to have fungal infection and pois, i forget to mention i had this fungal infection before i started masterbation and it kept getting worse(i did an abscess surgery in my ass a year ago) so as you said the immune system is weakning and its harder to fight infections,
thank you kurtosis.

I too have had fungal infections. However, from talking to my parents, it seems there's a history of infections and fatigue-related illnesses in my otherwise high achieving family.  To make it more interesting, my family moved to this country meaning that these illnesses are not likely to be solely down to the environmental conditions here.
This leads me to believe that there's something about my genetic makeup that has led to POIS. There may be an environmental factor but I would have been susceptible to some other infection or illness if I didn't get this (whatever this is).

My other conclusion is that my family perfectly fits the "high histamine" type that Carl Pfeiffer defined. It may be fashionable to write off Pfeiffer's work but there's more fashion to science than scientists often admit His description of high histamine personalities perfectly matches the achievements, determination and strange physical and mental illnesses that has affected my family for the 4 generations I have information about. So I'm not dismissing it and think that my POIS may be related to this.

It may also explain why we have a forum of people who seem so determined and have achieved some success despite what appears to be a severe disability.

[abud]

my father have a histroy of fungal infections!! i think he also have pois since he have most of the symptoms,
he always complain about having brainfog and fatigue, although i haven't talked to him about it,
this is quite interesting.