Author Topic: Should we change our lifestyle  (Read 6628 times)

Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Should we change our lifestyle
« on: September 20, 2012, 01:41:10 AM »
This is really a philosophical issue. Are we just fighting our nature? Since POIS is genetic and inherited. Maybe POIS is not a disability from an evolutionary view our ancestors must have coped with POIS somehow, avoided it, or found advantages to it.

Maybe people with POIS genes are at their best when they practice abstinence with the exception of procreation. It's like being a geek in high school you don't get laid but you can better focus on your studies.

I believe we are fighting our bodies and we can't be at our best until we practice abstinence since our ancestors must have practiced abstinence with success.

Shouldn't we be trying our best to find ways to not ejaculate and focus away from sex so we can work to our evolutionary advantages. I've read about people who led celibate lives to achieve great deeds. If we can deal with the negative consequence of non-ejaculation/little sex we can maintain the positive advantages such as increased motivation, confidence etc..

I'm assuming most of those famous abstinent people had POIS since they would go to great lengths to avoid sex in any form. e.g. Chinese emperors, monks, scientists, engineers, boxers, fighters.

With this as my reasoning I am going to do my best to not ejaculate and limit my exposure to sex. Abstinence is very difficult and has a variety of negative consequences such as restlessness, becoming easily prone to anger, inappropriate thoughts, pressure on your membranes etc.. I will try to find workarounds for them all.

I'm sure I will still have POIS due to nocturnal emissions so I will still take niacin before bed and at other times if the symptoms surface involuntarily.

I will update this with workarounds for anyone else who wants try abstinence even partially. Please post if you want to join me in practicing some form of abstinence hopefully we can find fulfillment that is complementary to our nature.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 02:02:17 AM by Tetra »

kurtosis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
  • Scientist, Engineer, INTJ type
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 05:14:59 AM »
Tetra,
We do not known if POIS in a genetic disorder. Even if it was, it's probably recessive as if not
1) it would be more prevalent
2) our siblings would have it & I'm sure this would have been stated before now on the forum.

Our ancestors cannot have been completely celibate or we would not have been born. Indeed, given many cultures attitude to sex it's more probable that our ancestors led or attempted to lead normal married lives.

It's impossible to prove that some famous figure had POIS. Everybody feels some form of fatigue following intercourse. However, it's nothing like POIS as for most people it's pleasurable and not accompanied by an inability to think, flu like symptoms, nausea or pain.

It is really really unlikely that POIS sufferers are going to be able to remain celibate and, even so, this may itself be psychologically damaging. I don't believe you'd find a psychiatrist who would advocate someone refraining from ejaculation at all as a treatment for an illness. I discussed this with a friend of mine who is a psychologist and he thought it would be very damaging and could lead to the development of sexual disorders. Sex is not a bad thing and we have to avoid thinking of it like that.

Perhaps some people are capable of it but reducing the number of O's is a temporary solution.

I tried long term abstinence. I still experienced some symptoms from NE's and the frustration level was huge. Eventually, I felt hugely depressed and ended up right back at square 1.  Unless you can use abstinence to make enough money that you don't need to work again, it's just delaying the inevitable. POIS!
I'm not trying to upset you but I'm really skeptical about abstinence as any kind of long term solution to POIS.

Daveman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 05:36:30 AM »
I agree with Kurtosis,

As support in part are the figures from our very own survey. Near 50% of our POIS sufferers began POIS well into life. Still doesn't mean that it isn't hereditary, but some of those cases are very unlikely. Like myself. I began with POIS at the age of 50 and prior to that I had been more than sexually active and enjoyed every minute of it.

I suppose in part I can agree with making the best of a bad thing.... but IS it the best?

It's NOT natural. I think that abstinence could be as uncomfortable a lifestyle as POIS itself. We go against our nature one way or the other. Having sex while having POIS or abstaining, very much against human nature.

Let's not forget another thing. There's a good chance there's a cure out there, I think this is shown by the results that some achieve with niacin and B-Complex. If we throw our hands in the air and say "let's not fight it", we deny the possibility of ever finding this cure.

I don't know,I  honestly can't see why there is such resistance to doing proper research. If we do the research and find there is NO cure, then perhaps, abstention COULD be one of the options.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

Observer

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 386
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 07:56:16 AM »
This is really a philosophical issue. Are we just fighting our nature? Since POIS is genetic and inherited. Maybe POIS is not a disability from an evolutionary view our ancestors must have coped with POIS somehow, avoided it, or found advantages to it.

Maybe people with POIS genes are at their best when they practice abstinence with the exception of procreation. It's like being a geek in high school you don't get laid but you can better focus on your studies.

I believe we are fighting our bodies and we can't be at our best until we practice abstinence since our ancestors must have practiced abstinence with success.

Shouldn't we be trying our best to find ways to not ejaculate and focus away from sex so we can work to our evolutionary advantages. I've read about people who led celibate lives to achieve great deeds. If we can deal with the negative consequence of non-ejaculation/little sex we can maintain the positive advantages such as increased motivation, confidence etc..

I'm assuming most of those famous abstinent people had POIS since they would go to great lengths to avoid sex in any form. e.g. Chinese emperors, monks, scientists, engineers, boxers, fighters.

With this as my reasoning I am going to do my best to not ejaculate and limit my exposure to sex. Abstinence is very difficult and has a variety of negative consequences such as restlessness, becoming easily prone to anger, inappropriate thoughts, pressure on your membranes etc.. I will try to find workarounds for them all.

I'm sure I will still have POIS due to nocturnal emissions so I will still take niacin before bed and at other times if the symptoms surface involuntarily.

I will update this with workarounds for anyone else who wants try abstinence even partially. Please post if you want to join me in practicing some form of abstinence hopefully we can find fulfillment that is complementary to our nature.

I could understand if anyone suffering from POIS decides, or better said: "is able to", to give up on sex entirely. But I could not understand that they resign themselves to "No sex" during their entire lives - that would mean that they have give up hope too. We need a research done on this, We cannot fight this battle all alone, and then we could move on with our lives normally.

We are very "lucky" to not be the only ones suffering this chronic condition, if we were isolated(this was the cause of everybody else here during several years) we would have a impossible task in front of us, but that is not our cause!  

Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2012, 02:27:46 PM »

Tetra,
We do not known if POIS in a genetic disorder. Even if it was, it's probably recessive as if not
1) it would be more prevalent
2) our siblings would have it & I'm sure this would have been stated before now on the forum.


I understand what you mean, though I'm sure almost no one here has talked about this with their father, brother, grandfather.
 
Our ancestors cannot have been completely celibate or we would not have been born. Indeed, given many cultures attitude to sex it's more probable that our ancestors led or attempted to lead normal married lives.

Strange things are possible I mean you would think there would be no homosexuals but they make up 5-10% of the general population. I'm sure if our ancestors had POIS they dealt with it the same way as us but without niacin. I understand the thought behind your message but I am not advocating for celibacy just reducing ejaculation to procreation and trying to develop minimum-sexual relationships.

It's impossible to prove that some famous figure had POIS. Everybody feels some form of fatigue following intercourse. However, it's nothing like POIS as for most people it's pleasurable and not accompanied by an inability to think, flu like symptoms, nausea or pain.

It is really really unlikely that POIS sufferers are going to be able to remain celibate and, even so, this may itself be psychologically damaging. I don't believe you'd find a psychiatrist who would advocate someone refraining from ejaculation at all as a treatment for an illness. I discussed this with a friend of mine who is a psychologist and he thought it would be very damaging and could lead to the development of sexual disorders. Sex is not a bad thing and we have to avoid thinking of it like that.


I think it's only in the west that you have so much advocacy for sex, I doubt people who have been married 10-30 years have as frequent sex as the media tries to portray.

Perhaps some people are capable of it but reducing the number of O's is a temporary solution.

I tried long term abstinence. I still experienced some symptoms from NE's and the frustration level was huge. Eventually, I felt hugely depressed and ended up right back at square 1.  Unless you can use abstinence to make enough money that you don't need to work again, it's just delaying the inevitable. POIS!
I'm not trying to upset you but I'm really skeptical about abstinence as any kind of long term solution to POIS.


I am 100% for conducting the research and finding the cure for POIS, I am thankful every time I reach for niacin and garlic for all the work everyone especially the admins have done. I believe though we should also try to work out ways to negate the bad consequences for not-ejaculating as a method of POIS prevention. I know it sounds like giving up in a way but it is at the moment for a lot of people the most effective way of preventing POIS, I just want to try find ways to make their lives easier.

Stef

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 377
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 02:55:39 PM »
This is really a philosophical issue. Are we just fighting our nature? Since POIS is genetic and inherited. Maybe POIS is not a disability from an evolutionary view our ancestors must have coped with POIS somehow, avoided it, or found advantages to it.

Maybe people with POIS genes are at their best when they practice abstinence with the exception of procreation. It's like being a geek in high school you don't get laid but you can better focus on your studies.

I believe we are fighting our bodies and we can't be at our best until we practice abstinence since our ancestors must have practiced abstinence with success.

Shouldn't we be trying our best to find ways to not ejaculate and focus away from sex so we can work to our evolutionary advantages. I've read about people who led celibate lives to achieve great deeds. If we can deal with the negative consequence of non-ejaculation/little sex we can maintain the positive advantages such as increased motivation, confidence etc..

I'm assuming most of those famous abstinent people had POIS since they would go to great lengths to avoid sex in any form. e.g. Chinese emperors, monks, scientists, engineers, boxers, fighters.

With this as my reasoning I am going to do my best to not ejaculate and limit my exposure to sex. Abstinence is very difficult and has a variety of negative consequences such as restlessness, becoming easily prone to anger, inappropriate thoughts, pressure on your membranes etc.. I will try to find workarounds for them all.

I'm sure I will still have POIS due to nocturnal emissions so I will still take niacin before bed and at other times if the symptoms surface involuntarily.

I will update this with workarounds for anyone else who wants try abstinence even partially. Please post if you want to join me in practicing some form of abstinence hopefully we can find fulfillment that is complementary to our nature.

Hi Tetra!

There is no indication that POIS is a genetic disorder, just for the record.  It might be, but the jury is totally out on POIS,  No research=No answers.

(Genetically-speaking, humans are programmed to engage in sexual activity.)
 
But even if POIS were a genetic condition -- it's miserable and causes intense suffering. For that reason alone, POIS should be fought until the answers are found and the treatment or cure is discovered.

What you seem to be saying is that people with genetic conditions should just accept them - go along with the natural course of their illness -- basically --> lay down and die.

POIS is brutal and needs to be fought with medical science.

Stef


Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 04:33:44 PM »
This is really a philosophical issue. Are we just fighting our nature? Since POIS is genetic and inherited. Maybe POIS is not a disability from an evolutionary view our ancestors must have coped with POIS somehow, avoided it, or found advantages to it.

Maybe people with POIS genes are at their best when they practice abstinence with the exception of procreation. It's like being a geek in high school you don't get laid but you can better focus on your studies.

I believe we are fighting our bodies and we can't be at our best until we practice abstinence since our ancestors must have practiced abstinence with success.

Shouldn't we be trying our best to find ways to not ejaculate and focus away from sex so we can work to our evolutionary advantages. I've read about people who led celibate lives to achieve great deeds. If we can deal with the negative consequence of non-ejaculation/little sex we can maintain the positive advantages such as increased motivation, confidence etc..

I'm assuming most of those famous abstinent people had POIS since they would go to great lengths to avoid sex in any form. e.g. Chinese emperors, monks, scientists, engineers, boxers, fighters.

With this as my reasoning I am going to do my best to not ejaculate and limit my exposure to sex. Abstinence is very difficult and has a variety of negative consequences such as restlessness, becoming easily prone to anger, inappropriate thoughts, pressure on your membranes etc.. I will try to find workarounds for them all.

I'm sure I will still have POIS due to nocturnal emissions so I will still take niacin before bed and at other times if the symptoms surface involuntarily.

I will update this with workarounds for anyone else who wants try abstinence even partially. Please post if you want to join me in practicing some form of abstinence hopefully we can find fulfillment that is complementary to our nature.

Hi Tetra!

There is no indication that POIS is a genetic disorder, just for the record.  It might be, but the jury is totally out on POIS,  No research=No answers.

(Genetically-speaking, humans are programmed to engage in sexual activity.)
 
But even if POIS were a genetic condition -- it's miserable and causes intense suffering. For that reason alone, POIS should be fought until the answers are found and the treatment or cure is discovered.

What you seem to be saying is that people with genetic conditions should just accept them - go along with the natural course of their illness -- basically --> lay down and die.

POIS is brutal and needs to be fought with medical science.

Stef



No this is not what I'm saying please reread my message. I think you have a very superficial understanding of POIS.

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5628
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 08:05:56 PM »
Day 5 of no ejaculation, I notice an undercurrent of anxiety, slightly lower inhibition, slight increase in drive, moderate increase in fixation/focus, noticeably more impulsive. I've also had wild and vivid dreams last night where I was more in control.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 08:28:08 PM by Tetra »

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5628
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 11:07:41 PM »

I think you [nordnurse] have a very superficial understanding of POIS.


The most ridiculous statement I ever heard on this board!!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5628
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 11:18:07 PM »
I have not seen long-lasting success with abstinence at both forums since 2007.

I think it is extremely difficult, and unhealthy (just my personal opinion!) but I understand the reasoning and wish you well, Tetra.

In 30+ years, I succeeded for about 8 weeks. No longer. It was torture.

10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 01:15:45 AM »
I have not seen long-lasting success with abstinence at both forums since 2007.

I think it is extremely difficult, and unhealthy (just my personal opinion!) but I understand the reasoning and wish you well, Tetra.

In 30+ years, I succeeded for about 8 weeks. No longer. It was torture.



I know how hard it is but this forum and everyone's posts have really encouraged me to pursue a way to defeat POIS and it's effects. There are those who have found satisfactory and different treatments for themselves like daveman and yourself. I am optimistic that my experiences will be something to build on and also lessen the torture for those who have no other choice but avoiding ejaculation. I've stumbled upon this http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/51668-masturbation-and-cognition/ it is deserted(the last post was in june) but it does give us a tiny bit of insight.

sameer7777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
  • pls send what ever working pls thankyou
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 04:48:01 AM »
i am fighting with it from age 18 - 43 now ........... no its really hard abstain ....
i agree with demo !!!
oh yes i think its genetic ....... i have some idea of my dad not being a successful man ...... and acting like me .... sometimes , but we cant talk on this ...........
thanks
pls don't expose me.
AFTER SEX/MASTERBATION (FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS)
1)BACK NECK PAIN GOES TO DOWN SPINE
2)NERVES LIKE SQUEEZED OUT
3)MORNING FEET NERVES PAIN
4)NASAL INFLAMMATION
5)BRAIN FOG
6)DEPRESSION
7)HIGH SUGAR LEVELS (TRIED INSULIN FOR 1 YEAR MAKE ME MORE SICK

Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2012, 06:54:44 AM »
I am looking for supplements to redirect your thoughts, so far, bacopa monnieri (brahmi) an Ayurveda medicine,  was effective at cancelling any active desire. Bacopa did make me crave carbs/sugar much more but for me my diet is secondary to abstaining.

Daveman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2012, 07:05:15 AM »

I think you [nordnurse] have a very superficial understanding of POIS.


The most ridiculous statement I ever heard on this board!!

Demo, I would go so far to say that HER understanding of POIS is superior to his!

Tetra you have your opinions and may run a thread on abstention here for now, but just because people do no agree with you does not mean at all that they do not understand. And ESPECIALLY when i comes from Nordnurse who is a STRONG contributing non-POIS female member who is intently involved, not only with rare disorders but with POIS itself and who knows and understand all aspects of POIS very well. ALL aspects!

So PLEASE!
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

Daveman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2012, 07:14:15 AM »
I am looking for supplements to redirect your thoughts, so far, bacopa monnieri (brahmi) an Ayurveda medicine,  was effective at cancelling any active desire. Bacopa did make me crave carbs/sugar much more but for me my diet is secondary to abstaining.

The POIS forums have been around for more than 5 years, and in that time MANY libido reducing substances have been tried. Some even quite effective in reducing libido, most if not all, failures however.

Like those who preceed you, statistics show that abstention is not a feasible solution.

Good luck!

I don't want to burst your bubble, but neither do I want to create a bubble for others who will find that it will just burst with time anyways. At least anyone who goes this route should understand that it is not an easy road and usually ends in failure.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

Tetra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2012, 08:04:25 AM »

I think you [nordnurse] have a very superficial understanding of POIS.


The most ridiculous statement I ever heard on this board!!

Demo, I would go so far to say that HER understanding of POIS is superior to his!

Tetra you have your opinions and may run a thread on abstention here for now, but just because people do no agree with you does not mean at all that they do not understand. And ESPECIALLY when i comes from Nordnurse who is a STRONG contributing non-POIS female member who is intently involved, not only with rare disorders but with POIS itself and who knows and understand all aspects of POIS very well. ALL aspects!

So PLEASE!


I really hoped my remark didn't come out that way but I'm now certain it did. I have great respect for NordNurse from my lurkings on both forums she seems like an remarkably good hearted person for obvious reasons. I hope she didn't take too much offense. I'm not sure if a person without POIS can ever completely understand it but it may be possible, it was that which I meant. I apologize if I caused any worry but I'm used to speaking crudely in forums which I feel a sense of community with. Maybe the other forum is better suited for this material then.

Green

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2012, 11:22:48 AM »
Well as far as POIS is concerned for me, I have to abstain as much as possible, things just do not happen whilst I'm in POIS, I find, mentally most things too challenging. After a while of abstaining, I start to feel a great depression and find it difficult to sleep, for some misguided reason, I feel it's a good idea to relieve myself and as a result I'm back in POIS and the saga continues.

Daveman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2012, 12:29:57 PM »
Well as far as POIS is concerned for me, I have to abstain as much as possible, things just do not happen whilst I'm in POIS, I find, mentally most things too challenging. After a while of abstaining, I start to feel a great depression and find it difficult to sleep, for some misguided reason, I feel it's a good idea to relieve myself and as a result I'm back in POIS and the saga continues.

Well, while there is no cure or relief of some sort, abstention is all that we have. But as Green and everyone else has seen, it is far from a cure. And if we want to take the best of what Tetra has said, if there's nothing else we can try to live with abstention.

But it just isn't going to be a way of life.

I get so frustrated when I see us going year after year, suffering, looking and hoping that we are going to find something and yet doing so little to ACTUALLY cure ourselves of POIS. It seems we are ready to do ANY other thing OTHER than invest in research, the ONLY future for cure there is.

It appears we are certain a) that there IS no cure, or b) that we can do it ourselves. What's it going to take to realize that neither is the case?






WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5628
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Should we change our lifestyle
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2012, 06:09:25 PM »
I applaud your remarks, Dave!!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business