Author Topic: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion  (Read 6726 times)

berlin1984

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Re: Laboratories for self testing & parameter discussion
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2020, 04:09:40 PM »
My CD57+ count was low. Did multiple tests for Lyme but all negative.

I stumbled over this, sounded interesting:

"Most commercial tests designed to detect chronic infections are based on measuring your immune reaction?the presence of antibodies?to the invading microbe. However, one of the primary cells that get infected with Lyme spirochetes are the white blood cells themselves, which is a bit of a game-changer? because if your white blood cells are infected, they lose the ability to produce antibodies.
Hence, it is relatively common to get a negative test result.  Dr. Klinghardt refers to this as ?the Lyme paradox,? because in order to diagnose Lyme disease properly with one of the accepted commercial tests, you have to first treat the Lyme disease, in order for your white blood cells to be able to mount an appropriate immune response. Only then can a lab test be used to detect the presence of Lyme disease."
"An indirect test is the CD57 test. ?CD-57? is a specific group of natural killer cells that are particularly damaged by the Lyme spirochetes. Therefore, if your numbers drop to a certain level, it is an indirect indicator that you may have Lyme disease, because the only known infection to suppress CD57 is that of Borrelia burgdorferi.
Normally, your CD57 value should be over 100. If it?s lower than that, you?re infected with Borrelia. If it?s below 60, you probably have both Borrelia and Mycoplasma, and, most likely, some other co-infections."


https://www.ppt-health.com/lyme-disease-basics/dr-klinghardt-interview/

Muon

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Re: Laboratories for self testing & parameter discussion
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2020, 07:49:04 AM »
I've added the celltrend lab to the list under the Germany header thanks to Cursed. If one wants to explore their dysautonomic symptoms (or CFS/ME) and suspects an autoimmune origin then these auto-antibodies may be an option. This also ties in with the viral infection theory, the body responds to the infection and creates antibodies which acts at receptors of its own tissue. Be aware that there are many potential mechanisms for dysautonomic symptoms. There seems to be overlap with CFS/ME and CRPS. The CFS panel can also be done at IMD for approximately the same price.

The P/Q-type calcium channel antibody has a relatively higher prevalence to show up out of all voltage-gated ion channel antibodies in POTS in addition to the adrenergic receptor antibodies. IMD got those:

P/Q-type and N-type calcium channel antibodies.
It's under Lambert-Eaton Syndrome on their request form, last page.

Autoimmune Dysautonomia Evaluation Testing Algorithm

Quote from: Nas
I'm curious about two parameters: general androgens and serotonin.
I kinda like the Russian forum's theory about the SERT gene which kinda makes sense for my pure OCD and PE. I kinda wanna see that tested.

Another reason for serotonin, in addition to yours, is malabsorption (gut-related theories). I would like to see the ratio of serotonin, tryptophan and kynurenin.

Mycoplasma pneumoniae (low CD57+) or VZV reactivation in Bell's Palsy:
Frequent detection of Mycoplasma pneumoniae in Bell's palsy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 12:44:11 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Laboratories for self testing & parameter discussion
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2020, 07:22:01 PM »
Before spending money on medical test, it may be wise to review the following page:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2695.msg24788#msg24788

A good POIS test in my opinion is to repeat the lymphocyte/orgasm test from P. Haake, et al. (2004):
"the orgasm induced a moderate but statistically significant transient elevation of the cytotoxic/suppressor T cell (CD3+CD8+) numbers (Fig. 2). In contrast, the absolute numbers of T cells (CD3+), T helper cells (CD3+CD4+), and B cells (CD3-CD20+) were not affected by sexual stimulation...the levels of LPS-induced proinflammatory cytokines (IL-6, TNF-alpha) remained unaffected by masturbation-induced orgasm...The effects of orgasm on peripheral lymphocyte subsets were restricted to NK cells and had minor or no effects on T or B cell subsets and showed no effects on (IL-6, TNF-alpha) cytokine production, indicating limited and selective effects of orgasm on immune system functions in parallel with its selective and short-lived neuroendocrine effects." -Effects of Sexual Arousal on Lymphocyte Subset Circulation and Cytokine Production in Man (P Haake, U Hartmann, et al., 2004)

Another good test is to measure blood urea levels outside of POIS (immediately before sexual activity) and then again about 10min after orgasm. Try not to urinate between the two test.

Tip: you can click on the header of a quote (quote from:...) to launch yourself to the original location of that quote.

Muon

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Re: Laboratories for self testing & parameter discussion
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2020, 06:36:58 AM »
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg32239#msg32239

All cytokines stem from different sources but yet all fall down post O. One would not expect this behaviour. Some of them shoot back up again after 1 day. They all need intracellular calcium to release cytokines. Calcium influx may be dwindling. Something could be happening to the voltage-gated ion channels.

Another idea: Measuring intracellular calcium in leukocytes before O and at least >45 min post O.

ATP, extra or intracellular, regulates calcium influx.

DAMPs (Danger signals, alarmins):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damage-associated_molecular_pattern#Overview
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 08:09:24 AM by Muon »


Muon

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Re: Laboratories for self testing & parameter discussion
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2020, 12:10:32 PM »
Interleukin 8 in seminal plasma could be measured.

Interleukin 8 and the male genital tract

More stuff in semen:
Patients with chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome show T helper type 1 (Th1) and Th17 self-reactive immune responses specific to prostate and seminal antigens and diminished semen quality

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) test. Solution: Lactulose. Gases: Hydrogen + Methane. Ref

BDNF:
"Our data support the view that measures of blood and plasma BDNF levels reflect brain-tissue BDNF levels."
Blood BDNF concentrations reflect brain-tissue BDNF levels across species

Blood plasma viscosity (inflammation ---> thick blood)

vWF and fibrinogen (vWF and Factor VIII are often measured together, these two can bind):
von Willebrand factor, fibrinogen and other plasma proteins as determinants of plasma viscosity

Lipopolysaccharide binding protein
"In patients with NASH, SIBO has been associated with increased levels of LPS binding protein..." Ref

Premature ejaculation: Serum NE, Leptin, 5-HT. Leptin/5?HT ratio may serve as an ideal indicator for reflecting SNS activity. Ref 

Endothelial degranulation: vWF
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weibel%E2%80%93Palade_body

Leptin, in case POIS inhibits appetite. By stimulating alpha-Melanocyte-stimulating hormone it enhances satiety.

HPV-16

Reactive oxygen species (ROS)

In case of symptoms during exercise: S100B as a Marker for Brain Damage and Blood–Brain Barrier Disruption Following Exercise

In case of premature ejaculation, magnesium in seminal plasma: https://bjui-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06320.x

Calcitonin gene-related peptide during headache (from O or from exercise). Ref

Brain fog: D-Lactate

IBS/SIBO/Autoimmunty: Anti-Cytolethal Distending Toxin (CdtB) and Anti-Vincolin antibodies (page 1 for lab)

Endothelin
« Last Edit: March 27, 2021, 10:43:07 AM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2020, 11:23:18 AM »
Ok cool but if i was to test for cytokines then I take it that it would be better to test before any reaction as I can see from your results? It makes me wonder if I was to test for metanephrines,catecholamines, plasma histamine if they would be the same as cytokine timing or not.

The cytokine ones seem quite expensive https://bloodtestslondon.com/products/interleukin-6-blood-test and theres no mention of multiple tests , how much did you pay for yours and did it include multiple readings or you bought each reading separate?

Not sure if you should generalize my results. Yes I tend to think that cytokines should be measured out of any reaction based on the results (Orgasm could be driving them down, perhaps measure stuff 24h post O, if you perform only one measurement that is). It's also possible that a subset of cytokines goes down while another subset goes up. I also tend to think that there might be something wrong with calcium signaling. I'm wondering that myself as well whether the cytokines behave the same as any other parameter or is it that another type which is elevated are driving these down, can't give you an answer. Catecholamines go up post O in healthy people, see paper in POIS paper thread, neuroendocrine response section.

The prices of the lab mentioned are going through the roof, absolute ridiculous. Compare it to the labs on the main page of this thread. I bought everything separate at IMD Berlin, you can see the prices at page 1, they went up slightly probably due to covid. Heck you might as well grab a cheap airBNB/hotel and travel to Berlin for these prices, LOL.

Oh by the way...Simon66 lives in London and measured some cytokines, you could ask him what lab he used. I know that at least 4 POISers have measured IL-6, all normal results. Doesn't mean you shouldn't measure it but the info could be helpful.

And about the serotonin...serum values don't correlate with brain levels. Serum tryptophan levels do correlate positively with tryptophan levels in the brain. I would prioritize tryptophan levels over serotonin. BDNF in serum also correlates positively with BDNF levels in the certain brain sections. Serotonin is synthesized from Tryptophan and BDNF from serotonin. If the former two are low in serum it could indicate that brain serotonin levels are low.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 11:38:17 AM by Muon »

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2020, 12:41:05 PM »
Ok cool but if i was to test for cytokines then I take it that it would be better to test before any reaction as I can see from your results? It makes me wonder if I was to test for metanephrines,catecholamines, plasma histamine if they would be the same as cytokine timing or not.

The cytokine ones seem quite expensive https://bloodtestslondon.com/products/interleukin-6-blood-test and theres no mention of multiple tests , how much did you pay for yours and did it include multiple readings or you bought each reading separate?

Not sure if you should generalize my results. Yes I tend to think that cytokines should be measured out of any reaction based on the results (Orgasm could be driving them down, perhaps measure stuff 24h post O, if you perform only one measurement that is). It's also possible that a subset of cytokines goes down while another subset goes up. I also tend to think that there might be something wrong with calcium signaling. I'm wondering that myself as well whether the cytokines behave the same as any other parameter or is it that another type which is elevated are driving these down, can't give you an answer. Catecholamines go up post O in healthy people, see paper in POIS paper thread, neuroendocrine response section.

The prices of the lab mentioned are going through the roof, absolute ridiculous. Compare it to the labs on the main page of this thread. I bought everything separate at IMD Berlin, you can see the prices at page 1, they went up slightly probably due to covid. Heck you might as well grab a cheap airBNB/hotel and travel to Berlin for these prices, LOL.

Oh by the way...Simon66 lives in London and measured some cytokines, you could ask him what lab he used. I know that at least 4 POISers have measured IL-6, all normal results. Doesn't mean you shouldn't measure it but the info could be helpful.

And about the serotonin...serum values don't correlate with brain levels. Serum tryptophan levels do correlate positively with tryptophan levels in the brain. I would prioritize tryptophan levels over serotonin. BDNF in serum also correlates positively with BDNF levels in the certain brain sections. Serotonin is synthesized from Tryptophan and BDNF from serotonin. If the former two are low in serum it could indicate that brain serotonin levels are low.

Lol good thing I spoke to you seems like these London private companies want to charge ridiculous prices for everything, I will have a look around and consider making a trip. The Berlin lab prices are so much cheaper wow!

Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2020, 01:41:23 PM »
Lol good thing I spoke to you seems like these London private companies want to charge ridiculous prices for everything, I will have a look around and consider making a trip. The Berlin lab prices are so much cheaper wow!

Hotels are probably stocked if you want to book for the short term. I know an address located close to the lab (5 min walk) if you can't find a cheap place to stay overnight, it's a little expensive though. I can give you the address via PM. Patients from the CFS forum also seem to have discovered the lab and making trips.

berlin1984

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2020, 02:12:58 PM »
Lol good thing I spoke to you seems like these London private companies want to charge ridiculous prices for everything, I will have a look around and consider making a trip. The Berlin lab prices are so much cheaper wow!

Just a side note: Touristic overnight stay is currently prohibited in Germany (for people reading this in some years: Covid-19 pandemic)
But with an appointment at the lab, you can probably argue it's a medical (or business) reason and is therefore allowed.
(Hotels are not closed, but quite some of them have shut down temporarily)

Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2020, 04:45:00 PM »
Do you have any parameters on your mind Iwillbeatthis?

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2020, 04:51:36 PM »
Do you have any parameters on your mind Iwillbeatthis?

Not really, I'm not sure what to do atm as things have been better than usual.

I'm thinking to do some rounds of rifaximin to fix my remaining gut issues, I'm hoping the gastro I'm seeing will prescribe but it if not then I will order some from online.

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2020, 04:52:47 PM »
Do you have any parameters on your mind Iwillbeatthis?

If I decide to go to berlin I will get all the tests that Dr suggested plus probably some extra ones

Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2021, 12:55:25 PM »
Celltrend offers a new test for autoantibodies involved in Small fiber neuropathy:

Small Fiber Neuropathy (SFN)
Small Fiber Neuropathy (SFN) is a subtype of neuropathy that is characterized by the selective involvement of non-myelinated or thinly-myelinated sensory fibers is marked. Its pathogenesis includes a wide range of immune-mediated, metabolic, toxic, hereditary and genetic disorders. SFN has been described in connection with Sjögren’s syndrome, celiac disease, systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes mellitus type 1, inflammatory bowel disease, sarcoidosis and paraneoplastic syndrome. Some data also suggest an association with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. Clinical symptoms of SFN can manifest as isolated sensory disorders as well as isolated autonomic disorders.

Intravenous immunoglobulin therapy (IVIG) showed a significant effect in treating patients with autoimmune mediated SFN in two large retrospective studies with comparable response rates (77% and 83% of patients).

Autoantibodies against fibroblast growth factor receptor-3 (FGFR3-IgG) and tri-sulfate heparin di-saccharide (TSHDS-IgM) are elevated in SFN. A clinical study is currently evaluating the efficacy of IVIG administration in FGFR3-Ab and TSHDS-Ab positive patients.

FGFR3 auto-antibodies
TSHDS auto-antibodies

POISers should investigate their own individual immune/hormone profile in my opinion.

Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2021, 04:08:00 PM »
If anyone is interested in the antioxidant profile I took, here is a link to the test and also documentation:

https://biolab.co.uk/index.php/cmsid__biolab_test/Antioxidant_Profile
https://www.biolab.co.uk/docs/antoxpr.pdf

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2021, 05:41:29 PM »
I'm homozygous for the sod2 rs4880 gene, (super oxide).

When I had this chronic infection from 2018-2019, I would wake up feeling like death in the mornings, the worst brain fog, autistic symptoms, feeling brain dead and l arginine cleared it so that indicates it was some type of nitric oxide/oxidative stress disorder. I still have this going on sometimes outside of POIS but much less severe.

I've tried lots of things to combat oxidative stress: NAC, liposomal glutathione, exercise, agmatine sulfate, l arginine and in the end most weren't very helpful.

However Sulforaphane doesn't compare to any of these things above and it is a game changer for me so far.

Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2021, 10:02:45 AM »
A new lab has been added for the USA; DirectLabs. Thanks to the folks of the phoenix rising forum.

Redlabs got new parameters like IL-33:
USA: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16rFnpPwKLiiXufaTeZkh2vN62SoOCOnh/view
Belgium: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YBnZhO7yWYWHf17H23SimWHUOTzD_DA-/view

Edit: Added a hyperlink to the lab list from phoenix rising to the top of the thread on page 1:
https://mecfsroadmap.altervista.org/#testing-laboratories
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 11:55:01 AM by Muon »


Muon

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Re: Laboratories, online pharmacies & parameter discussion
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2021, 02:04:59 PM »
Dr Theoharides suggested checking folate auto antibodies for me considering I react to all forms of folate and have a folate deficiency
What lab provides this test?
http://iliadneuro.com/ he said it was the only lab in the world that does this test.

Paywall...
Chapter 184 - Vitamin-responsive disorders: cobalamin, folate, biotin, vitamins B1 and E

Folate binding protein?
Studies of the role of a particulate folate-binding protein in the uptake of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate by cultured human KB cells

Are The Levels Of Antibodies Stable Over Time?:
"Antibodies tend to fluctuate over time. The causes are not always known. In some cases the increased intake of cow's milk elevates the levels of the antibodies and removal of milk from diet tends to lower the levels in some children."
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 02:13:52 PM by Muon »