Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy

[swell]

I think there is so much mystery in our Immune system the way it behaves as it does.  While I love nanna1's theory and certain parts of it are baseline critical to our health, though I feel we have defects in most of our immune cells to begin with, so I question (in my head) whether boosting innate immune cells vs adaptive immune cells (Th1, Th2, Th17 etc) or even vice versa, is in our body's interest.  I do am increasingly appreciating nanna1's suggestion of Tri-Methyl-Glycine and SamE, I think they play a vital role in our health state - in my head I call it as 'frozen' state. 

That said, my experience with Moderna vaccine has been mixed/positive - I am still debating.  It jolted me like I have never experienced my entire life.  I had GI symptoms from hell for one day.  It certainly indicated to me that something extremely weird is going on in my tummie or intestines.  And now I am currently fighting a fungal or psoriasis infection.  Dermatologist thought its Tinea, though I think it could be psoriasis.  Anyone else experienced it?

getting vaccinated by such a vaccine can increase the innate immunity of POISers ( at least those who think they have an innate immunity deficiency) so that there is a theoretical possibility for improving the transient immune deficiency condition during ejaculation?...

[Clues]

And now I am currently fighting a fungal or psoriasis infection.  Dermatologist thought its Tinea, though I think it could be psoriasis.  Anyone else experienced it?

Not sure if relevant, but I gradually got a large number of red, itchy, scaly skin lesions at one point a while back when I changed my diet to incorporate a bunch of prebiotic (not probiotic) foods among other things. The lesions were misdiagnosed as a fungal infection, then a bacterial infection. In the end it seems like it was just some sort of inflammation with no infection trigger. They've gradually been receding over the last year as I've been trying out various measures, and are almost gone now.

Not saying you don't have a fungal infection, but thought I'd let you know my experience. Good luck!

[swell]

Few things:
a) My lesion is indeed Fungi - Tinea (Ring-worm) confirmed.  And I think it is expanding even.
b) Ironically vaccination should have benefited Fungi species.
c) Scary part, assuming the research is credible:
"Although the concentrations of IFN-α were below the detection limit of the assay for most of the stimuli, we observed a significant reduction in the production if IFN-α secreted ...This may hamper the initial innate immune response against the virus, as defects in TLR7 have been shown to result in and increased susceptibility".

So if we have a TLR7 mutation, then essentially we can be sitting ducks to catch a virus (and not mount an effective 1st line response)?

Action item (at least for those that are vaccinated with Pfizer/Moderna, I think): Find which gene(s) codes for TLR7 or Type1 IFN's, then see if we have a mutation(s).

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.03.21256520v1

[The One]

@Nanna1 Thank you so much for this miracle of a stack!

I tried everything and this is the only stack that's given me 100% relief.

I wrote about my experience here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3793.msg42904#msg42904.

But for those having problems with sourcing the products.

Here's the stack I ran:

1. Take the following 15-20 mins before food, 3X day. You will cycle this stack 6 days on, 4 days off, for 5 months:
 1. QOL Immuno Complex: https://qualityoflife.net/products/immuno-complex
-If not available, then use the following (this is what I used):
   1. AHCC (1 cap): https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kinoko-Platinum-AHCC-Supplement/dp/B00HG0YZMG
   2. Zinc (1 cap): https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Supports-Antioxidant-Protection/dp/B0001VKDDM/
   3. Vitamin D3 (1 cap of 5000 IU): Any brand does.
   4. Andrographis (1 cap): https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-Andrographis-Extract-450mg-Capsules/dp/B09B2QJBDS/
   5. Copper gluconate (1 cap empty stomach): https://www.amazon.com/GNC-Copper-100-Vegetarian-Tablets/dp/B084KJNQHZ/
 2. Vitamin C (2 caps): https://www.amazon.com/DACHA-Nutrition-Natural-Liposomal-Vitamin/dp/B07DR13XSX
 3. Beta-glucan (2 scoops - 1g): https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-Glucan-Powder-Grams-Servings/dp/B07YCT9CZB/
 4. Folate: < 200mcg (1X, every OTHER day): https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Active-Quatrefolic-Non-GMO/dp/B005CD33GI

2. Take 5g Vitamin C IV over 4 days. I spent over $350 for all 4 injections from a local IV therapy near me. I had to split the 4 Vitamin C IVs over 2 weeks (M, W). Take 1 cap copper 3 hrs prior on an empty stomach before IV.

3. Take pre-pack 90 minutes before orgasm. I orgasmed once a week:
   1. Caffeine (1-2 caps): https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-Caffeine-Pills-Serving-Capsules/dp/B01MY5CW7S
   2. Citrulline Malate (1 scoop): https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-L-Citrulline-Malate-Powder-Grams/dp/B00N1A2JM8/
   3. Alpha GPC (2 caps): https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-Alpha-300mg-Veggie-Capsules/dp/B076XNXLR2
   4. L-Theanine (2 caps): https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-Pure-L-Theanine-Powder-Grams/dp/B01AAVGK70/
   5. NALT (1 cap): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079NQ1XXW

In total, I spent $725 for this stack for a 5 month period. It's the best $725 I spent in my life.

[Hakira117]

Thank Nana1 and others who are helping!

I really want to try the full process but I'm struggling to find and understand all the stuff that I need to take.
I'm leaving in Belgium, does some one by any chance know a place to order immuno complex?

Also I have some question about my pois : First when I'm taking a shower( hot or cold) I'm getting sick right after(not during the shower but when I'm drying my self) it's kinda the same effect I'm having when I'm sick from pois but a bit less stronger and it last 2 ord 3 days insteed or 5 or 6 days. I had Pois for like 4 or 5 years now and I never had problem with shower but it's started about 8 months ago. As you can imagine it's very ennoying not to take shower without getting sick...

I also have the same problem when I 'm eating brocoli, I know it's weird but as soon as I'm eating brocoli (even just a little ) I'm getting instantly sick (I think it's a immune reaction, but I'm really not a specialist).

I read all the post and I tried to understand your theory, I didn't understand too  well (just the basic) but does my problem with shower and brocoli can have a link with your theory!

Anyway thank you again Nana1 and congratulations to have find a way to heal your pois! And thank you other people who are helping as well and good luck to everyone who will try this method!

[aswinpras06]

Hi Hakira117

I also have the shower triggered pois.  Also shaving the face or head gives me symptoms which are more worse than those caused by pois.  The skin mast cell activation mostly is the cause and this is very difficult to manage than pois, which atleast can be prevented by abstinence.

[Hakira117]

Hi aswinpras06

Yes my solution is to do the same as I do with pois : abstinence, so I only taking a shower every 3 week or month, ofc I'm washing important part as much as I can but if I'm having a full shower I will get sick for few days, maybe it's sound  disgusting for some of you but I think that if you had the same symptoms of pois after taking a shower or a bath you will do the same.

Fortunately I'm a freelancer and I don't need to meet people or even talk to other people to do my job, so as result I'm not or very rarely going outside anymore, that plus the depression that I'm having because of this sickness make me stay locked at home more and more(wich doesn't help my depression for sure. Any way I still try to stay possitive and will do my best to try to cure my illness or at least make it more sustainable.
This kind of post help a lot to stay positive!

[aswinpras06]

Thanks Hakira117

You are only one apart from me having shower or bath causing pois like symptoms. A headbath will cause me chest congestion,sinus pain and bad digestion for a week. Very very difficult problem I have tried so many remedies but nothing works.  Now with a failed lung and bedridden condition at age 44 I feel very sad that after taking bed bath, just wiping my body with warm water and soap also causes problem but much milder than shower or bath.

[hurray]

Thanks Hakira117

You are only one apart from me having shower or bath causing pois like symptoms. A headbath will cause me chest congestion,sinus pain and bad digestion for a week. Very very difficult problem I have tried so many remedies but nothing works.  Now with a failed lung and bedridden condition at age 44 I feel very sad that after taking bed bath, just wiping my body with warm water and soap also causes problem but much milder than shower or bath.

Hi aswin & Hakira

I too have experienced difficulties with POIS symptoms following showers. My own POIS-like symptoms are triggered when I wash my hair with hot/cold water. My solution was to avoid getting my hair wet until the end of the shower, and then only using luke-warm water. Our friendly mod demografx had a similar issue, which he found some relief from by not using high-pressure water on his head, if I remember correctly.

POIS and showers is a topic that has come up several times over the years, you can have a look at our previous discussions by using this search:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=site%3Apoiscenter.com+shower

Here's a thread that got several replies that mentions mine and Demo's issues:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2209.0

[demografx]

…Our friendly mod demografx had a similar issue, which he found some relief from by not using high-pressure water on his head, if I remember correctly.

I thought I would reward myself after “cautious showering” for at least a year. So, the other day I threw out all my “rules” and simply hot-showered ‘my brains out’. At length.

I paid for that DEARLY with terrible symptoms for the next 2 days.

[aswinpras06]

Thanks Hurray.  I didn't see that thread.

[elish2006]

Does this theory also apply to females???

[Mushnikk]

I think this theory is a particularly good fit for women as they lack other possible causes (prostate, semen allergy, ...)

[berlin1984]

elish2006, welcome to the forum. FYI, There is some other threads here on the forum if you use the search function for women with POIS.

Regarding the therapy proposed here: I'd think it's best to work with a doctor because from what I read, women are more sensitive to possible auto immune triggers by AHCC (and other immune supplements). (I'm not a doctor so no idea if this is true)

[certainlypois2]

For AHCC this company is the only maker of the legit stuff. https://www.aminoup.jp/en/products/ahcc/

https://www.aminoupworld.com/ahcc/   list of companies that sell their stuff, so you don't have to just rely on quality of life.

[jamot]

II. immune activation stack (cycle - 6 days on, 4 days off, for ~5 months or until symptom remission)
**Warning: This therapy is designed to increase the total number of white blood cells and may (or should) increase the occurrence of some illness symptoms over a short-term period of time. The increased feeling of illness may last for several weeks. Cycling off the stack can reduce feelings of illness and improve immune response to the stack. However, fatigue, irritability and brain-fog are not expected to result from this therapy.**

What are your bases for saying cycling off can improve the immune response to the stack ? I keep seeing online recommendations to take such stacks every day. I began following the protocol but don't know how to organize at the end.

[swell]

I think overall cycling supplements is a prudent approach, with some exceptions always.  To answer your query:

in most cases i.e. in favor of cycling:
a) you stimulate/support your cells to do work and/or change their behavior, instead of making your cells get accustomed to a constant application of an exogenous stimulus i.e. the supplement. 
b) it is actually just like dog or child training.  Your cells are like you, or little tiny versions of you.  In the ideal world you don't want your body to start depending on the substance permanently, your goal is to coax the body into making its own substances in the long-term.
c) Realize that this world is false.  Everything has a 'bias', nothing comes without it.  Usually in a forum like this, you have people like yourself, and we have our own biases, hopefully which is to help each other 'heal' and to err on the side of caution.  On the other hand, (and not to berate) stakeholders that make living by selling supplement products, it can come  natural for them to have a bias to take a product daily, advise others to take it daily, more the quantity - merrier be the outcome.

That said, there would be plenty of exceptions to the above general rule:
a) sometimes, all the above is just not a choice.  e.g. it is a pharmaceutical medication whose efficacy is only studied while being taken on a continuous daily basis, or when doses are skipped could have deleterious effects.
b) Supplements can fall in this category as well.  e.g. you experience a bacterial infection.  You would not want to skip days as that is akin to creating "bacterial resistance".  You would want a regular exposure of the substance to the bacteria, daily/twice daily etc, until elimination of pathogen.   Anti-biotics (pharmaceutical or natural) fit this category well.  In other words, when experiencing an outbreak (of some pathogen in your body), you would want a steady/regular approach of using that supplement i.e. prevent pathogen resistance to that compound.

What are your bases for saying cycling off can improve the immune response to the stack ? I keep seeing online recommendations to take such stacks every day.

[Hopeoneday]

I. prevent transient immune suppression (prepack, 90min prior)
caffeine (150mg)
citrulline malate or citrulline nitrate (3g)
N-acetyl-tyrosine (200mg)
theanine (300mg)

This looks like it was rewriten from preworkout suplements,
if someone want to try this prepack you can find this ingredients
in meny preworkout suplements(not want to comerciall here).
It works mostly on NO production.

[mike_sweden]

pois is not solved with a cup of tea

[not_enot]

As for now, I have several practical questions : 1) did more than one people here try the anti-transient immune suppression prepack with some success ?
2) Could somebody explain the role of N-acetyl L-tyrosine in the prepack ? I may have missed it.
3) Could those who tried the immune competence supplements and IV vitamin C make an update on their current situation, after some months have passed ?

Many thanks to all, this forum is incredibly informative and thought-provoking.

I support the author and ask the same questions to everyone on the forum.