Author Topic: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory  (Read 16174 times)

dizzy

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2019, 02:40:01 PM »
Bad :-\ I get hemoragic diarrheas and yellowed stools. Bloodtest and stooltest in 7 days. Hope my liver is ok.

Yellowed stools can be caused by taurine. It has an effect on bile acids.

It can also be caused by Gilbert's syndrome (which is benign).
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 02:43:13 PM by dizzy »
Male, INTJ. POIS symptoms: red eyes, ear-pain, anxiety, speech problems, pale/ugly skin, stiff neck, double chin, tinnitus, light sensitivity. POIS even after stimulation without O.

Muon

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2019, 03:03:57 PM »
She is allergic even to the bark of the tree as soon as the juice begins to
the wood is flowing, and the bark is bursting.

Does she have 'allergic shiners'?: https://youtu.be/HNNPsZlDTEQ?t=609

demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2019, 06:33:54 PM »
Fox, once again, I’m sure many people here agree with me: it’s wonderful to have your participation!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Fox

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2019, 03:49:14 AM »
I've got exactly the opposite. The closest disease it resembles is Lambert Eaton myasthenic syndrome (LEMS).
In the case of celiac disease there are some case reports of people presenting with myasthenia-like symptoms who respond to gluten-free diet, suggesting an auto-immune cause other than myasthenia gravis (MG) itself. MG is post-synaptic and LEMS ist pre-synaptic. Having typical LEMS would mean that it would be progressive in the course and could mean that you are not able to walk anymore. The muscle symptoms in POIS however seems to be more mild. The symptoms in both our cases don't fit with myasthenia gravis either (usually present with face and speech symptoms first, changing hanging eyelids, more variation in the day, faster symptoms after exercise).

The latest paper of Dr. Waldinger also suggest a auto-immune cause of the disease. The question is why a auto-immune reaction in the neuromuscular junction would happen after ejaculation. As you report, the symptoms seems to be in someway also present without ejaculation. Meaning the auto-immune disease is perhaps mild but always active in the neuromuscular junction, perhaps overreacting through auto-immune triggering caused by semen after orgasm. A calcium channel might well be involved because the symptoms are somehow more  LEMS than MG-like. Interestingly, genetic LEMS seems to have the same genetic risk factor constellation as celiac disease. Zinc present in semen is a natural competitor of calcium. There might influence through too much cold or too much heat.  LEMS-like symptoms may present with a small improvement after muscle contraction and after that weakness follows. I too notice difficulty with starting to speak after a rest period, or a short-lasting heavy feeling in the legs after long sitting.

Also had swallowing problems as a kid
me too. speaks more for a genetic cause. It is in this case also interesting that Dr. Waldinger had many POIS-patients in the Netherlands. Genetic conditions present themselves more often in local regions.

Prolonged static postures is worse than moving around.
I also can't tolerate long standing, with increased sweating and so on, speaking for a overactive sympathetic system during POIS.

Stiff muscles is something that is present in my familiy. I get it when resting, by POIS or heat. More so by resting after symptom triggering by POIS, heat or prolonged static postures/too much walking around(shopping, doing dishes).
That certainly speaks for a mild genetic condition. I notice it too after resting. It is like having to push the words out when speaking. In contrast the speech gets a bit nasal and blurry after 5-10 minutes of prolonged speaking.


demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2019, 02:53:41 PM »
when a rabbit farts in the forest,
i sneeze 10-15 times in a row,
the same like my modher.
When Rabbit farts are being thrown into the mix you know you are dealing with Dr. POIS (LOL).

Muon, not to worry, this only applies to Croatian rabbits. With POIS.         (j/k)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 06:57:23 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Fox

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2019, 04:28:42 AM »
Fox, once again, I am sure many people here agree with me: it is wonderful to have your participation!

Thanks! I hope we can help each other out for a better understanding of this disease.

Muon

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2019, 11:38:58 AM »
I've got exactly the opposite. The closest disease it resembles is Lambert Eaton myasthenic syndrome (LEMS).
In the case of celiac disease there are some case reports of people presenting with myasthenia-like symptoms who respond to gluten-free diet, suggesting an auto-immune cause other than myasthenia gravis (MG) itself. MG is post-synaptic and LEMS ist pre-synaptic. Having typical LEMS would mean that it would be progressive in the course and could mean that you are not able to walk anymore. The muscle symptoms in POIS however seems to be more mild. The symptoms in both our cases don't fit with myasthenia gravis either (usually present with face and speech symptoms first, changing hanging eyelids, more variation in the day, faster symptoms after exercise).
I don't think I have LEMS, I was talking about a few specific symptoms that have overlap. The gluten could be a trigger for hyperresponsive mast cells.

The latest paper of Dr. Waldinger also suggest a auto-immune cause of the disease. The question is why a auto-immune reaction in the neuromuscular junction would happen after ejaculation.
Mast cells are close to nerve endings and released mediators could damage it.

Zinc present in semen is a natural competitor of calcium. There might influence through too much cold or too much heat.
There is a class of ion channels called temperature gated ion channels which might be involved, I haven't read up on that. Or again mast cells getting triggered by temperature (changes).

It is in this case also interesting that Dr. Waldinger had many POIS-patients in the Netherlands. Genetic conditions present themselves more often in local regions.
This has been overlooked yes. Could also be a mutation making mast cells hyperresponsive in a different way for other local regions reacting on different molecules in semen and releasing different mediators leading to a different outcome in skin pricks/symptoms. My brother has POIS which could mean a genetic component is involved.

I notice it too after resting. It is like having to push the words out when speaking. In contrast the speech gets a bit nasal and blurry after 5-10 minutes of prolonged speaking.
I don't notice it in relation to speaking. Prolonged speaking however gets me tired quickly which leads to a downward spiral of cognetive symptoms.

I got a huge pallette of symptoms with complex dynamics which may come and go. Zooming in on a few symptoms which they are doing in healtcare doesn't work in my case. There is one condition that comes close to the big picture and in my mind that's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mast_cell_activation_syndrome
More like a mild leaking variant where symptoms are trending over time with synergy of triggers.

I was hunting down some auto-antibodies in the past for POTS but the two that were on top of my list weren't available 4 years ago. Those were calcium channel and adrenergic receptor related. I'm seeing that they are available now but since my POTS has been improved over the years I'm not sure it's worth it to get them tested.
https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/it-mmfiles/Autoimmune_Dysautonomia_Evaluation_Testing_Algorithm.pdf
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 12:21:17 PM by Muon »

Fox

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2019, 01:53:16 AM »
Muon, thanks for the extensive responses! I think that the fact that your brother suffers from POIS as well, might be an important fact. Even when POIS happens 1 in 100, then the chance would be 1 in 10.000 that both of you were involved when it is totally not genetic. You mentioned some other subject to before. The role of micro-organisms such as candida ofcourse might play role as well. Semen contents can control the pressure in the female uterus. Element such as zinc or acetylcholine in semen might act as a modifier of present candida on the penile surface, changing them from yeast in hyphe form. 50% of people with POIS are circumcised, so that probably does not play a big role. There exsist however a auto-immune disease that heals after circumcision (lichen sclerosis), which is rather interstingly but poorly understood.

Perhaps the human immune respons acts strong after such a change of micro-organisms. Perhaps a defect genetic mucosal/endothelial function then plays a role as well. Humans use acetylchline mainly for neuro-transmission, a lot of micro-organisms use acetylcholine for other functions. Perhaps the human autonomic changes during orgasm may provoke somehow changes in gut pathogens that provoke a spike in immune responses. Then ofcourse we get back to the defect tight junctions and the biochemical immune responses you described. 

Perhaps the experienced weakness might not relate to any form of myasthenia at al, because such weakness is also seen in other auto-immune diseases, which as you stated might relate to the influence of the immune system on the (neuro)muscular function.

What is really interesting is, that niacinamide actually seems to kill candida. Effect of Nicotinamide  Against Candida albicans

Unfortunately, I don't have any time left to write further...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 02:09:11 AM by Fox »

demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2019, 12:48:16 PM »
Fox, one forum member states without reservation 100% POIS-free success for 10 years. Drastic procedure: male hysterectomy (orchiectomy and more). Would be interested in any thoughts you have. Maybe we can learn from the procedure...but not do it! :)

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3004.0

Bolded above, just to make sure people know where I stand!

But I’m very happy for member Animus!!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 02:30:36 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Animus

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2019, 04:49:48 PM »
Hello forum.
this is Animus!  Demo copied me on the conversation going on. And I just wanted to add, also , that I see a possible benefit to Understand the causes of POIS, without actually going through the very Invasive Surgeries which I had.  I am happy to report success in defeating POIS. And I would like to share my story with scientists/ community.

demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2019, 04:52:35 PM »
Animus, thanks for posting!

And I’m glad you don’t seem disappointed that I might discourage some others from following your path.

I think I agree with Quantum and others who say there’s no guarantee that all forms of POIS would respond as successfully as yours did!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 10:50:43 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Animus

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2019, 05:03:11 PM »
Hello this is my first post on this forum. Because I am a medical doctor, I thought a lot about the possible causes of this disease. In my own case, POIS-symptoms seems to heavily improve after going gluten-free over many months. Other foods and niacin-containing food seem to have transient positive effects. Also many people on this forum report about dietary causes of POIS. Other symptoms such as headaches, stool problems and skin rashes improved in my case too. I have read about zonulin. A protein that is involved with the opening of tight junctions in the gut and in the brain. The opening of the blood-brain-barrier may cause reactions in the brain that cause brain fog. Maybe zonulin has also a working on the endothelium of the ejeculatory tracts too. When antigens enter the body through the opening junctions in the gut, then maybe a similar process happens through zonulin in the testicles in patients suffering from POIS. Opening of the endothelium junctions could cause autoimmune active agents in the serum to contact with the immune system. In the case of celiac disease also a certain DNA-Profile (HLA-DQ2/DQ8) is necessary to enable the immune-system to present the antigen and cause a pathologic reaction. Without this profile celiac disease can not develop with almost 100% certainty. Maybe a similar DNA-profile is necessary to cause POIS. Some people with POIS also report about gluten-sensitivity. Other causes of leaky gut, such as bacterial overgrowth do exist. Many people report about improvement of the symptoms on a healthy diet in general, that would fit with the idea that a healthy gut helps to reduce POIS symptoms.
What do you guys think?




My thoughts on the Leaky Gut Theory. Leaky Brain theory as to the <Cause> of POIS is that it is highly improbable.  I really do not think Celiac Disease has any direct Causal Relationship to POIS.

However, I do note, and would like to be clear, that POIS does cause an Intensification of Existing Illnesses.  So if you do have Celiac Disease. POIS could worsen it. I am really glad to hear that your symptoms have improved by changing your diet.

demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2019, 11:09:43 PM »

I am happy to report success in defeating POIS. And I would like to share my story with scientists/ community.


One of the most encouraging things I’ve read in my 12 years here!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2019, 08:22:02 AM »
You mentioned some other subject to before. The role of micro-organisms such as candida ofcourse might play role as well. Semen contents can control the pressure in the female uterus. Element such as zinc or acetylcholine in semen might act as a modifier of present candida on the penile surface, changing them from yeast in hyphe form.

I had some yeast/fungi spots on my skin over the years. These were discolorations. If you compare the growth of a spot over a period of 24 hours you won't detect any increase in radius. These things were developing very slowly over the course of multiple days to weeks and were quite innocent.

The oral candida outbreak was completely different in terms of speed of growth and intensity. This one just developed from nothing to white layers on oral surfaces and when the surfaces were coated it started to form wires all within 1 day. It also hurts when I moved my mouth/tongue, there wasn't mucus left, all extremely dry. I used an anti-fungal gel, Daktarin, which helped but when I swallowed the stuff I became weak and literally dropped to the ground. It felt like my immune resistance was swept away. Perhaps some kind of hypersensitivity reaction, I don't know? This effect was new to my GP at that time compared to other patients who were using it. So I used the stuff the flush my mouth.

My feet are sensitive to fungi when in POIS. But this is slowly developing and not of much concern. I'm using vicks vaporub for that if I see some redness developing between toes or toenails getting affected.

I think it might have to do with temporary IL-17 decrease which fungi might take advantage of. Perhaps via Catecholamine/tryptophan/kyn pathways affecting the Treg/Th17 axis.

My aunt had a vaginal yeast infection when she was 16. She also got food sensitivities.

My mother gets a burning sensation by intravaginal contact with semen. Just like myself I can get a burning sensation from my own semen.

There might be some answers in here:

Manifestations of immune tolerance in the human female reproductive tract

50% of people with POIS are circumcised...
Source?

Perhaps a defect genetic mucosal/endothelial function then plays a role as well.
Maybe, see paper above for more potential mucosal reproductive tract related immune causes.

Oh yes before I forget. All the women with health problems in my family felt better during pregnancy.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 09:03:02 AM by Muon »

Fox

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2019, 12:05:44 PM »
My thoughts on the Leaky Gut Theory. Leaky Brain theory as to the <Cause> of POIS is that it is highly improbable.  I really do not think Celiac Disease has any direct Causal Relationship to POIS.

However, I do note, and would like to be clear, that POIS does cause an Intensification of Existing Illnesses.  So if you do have Celiac Disease. POIS could worsen it. I am really glad to hear that your symptoms have improved by changing your diet.

Hello Animus,
I think your case is very relevant to the understanding of POIS as a disease. It proves that it is not a pure psychological disease and that by severely reducing semen/Sperma POIS may be cured. As we still don't know in what exact way your surgery cured POIS and don't if the same effect can be achieved we need to be very cautious from a medical standpoint. One big problem with the procedure is that it is a one-way trip with risks of complication, such as not be able anymore to get erections and orgasms. I think it is never bad to advice general health improvement by healthy diet, because even when the gut has nothing to do with it, it may as you also state have additional negative effect on POIS. I too don't believe that celiac disease related strong to POIS. At least on person on the forum here had negative genetic for celiac.
We speculate about different theory models for a better understanding of POIS. Because the scientific research so far about POIS is a bit lacking, there may be a benefit of sharing different ideas and causes. As a MD I have a special interest in rare diseases. I recently detected a potential deadly disease in a patient who had been seeing doctors for more than a year. As stated by someone before, many MDs are a bit inclined to focus on one certain aspect of a problem (perhaps the thing related to their specialty). They can also be a bit rigid about taking extra time for a patient in complex cases, when they are used to plan only a few minutes for a patient.  In some countries the medical training is extremely good and then it may be less a problem.  Even "easy" diseases as celiac disease being diagnosed with long delay. It takes 7 years on average to diagnose myasthenia.
I believe that sharing results and ideas may perhaps even cause a major breakthrough in the understanding of POIS.

Fox

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2019, 12:30:20 PM »
I had some yeast/fungi spots on my skin over the years. ...This one just developed from nothing to white layers on oral surfaces and when the surfaces were coated it started to form wires all within 1 day. ?. My feet are sensitive to fungi when in POIS. But this is slowly developing and not of much concern. I'm using vicks vaporub for that if I see some redness developing between toes or toenails getting affected? I think it might have to do with temporary IL-17 decrease which fungi might take advantage of. Perhaps via Catecholamine/tryptophan/kyn pathways affecting the Treg/Th17 axis? My aunt had a vaginal yeast infection when she was 16. She also got food sensitivities?.My mother gets a burning sensation by intravaginal contact with semen. Just like myself I can get a burning sensation from my own semen..Oh yes before I forget. All the women with health problems in my family felt better during pregnancy.

Muon, thanks again for sharing this detailed information. This makes me think about copper metabolism in the body. My ceruloplasmin has been relatively low (6.9 percentile) with normal total copper. Did they measure that in your family? It means for example in my case that between 30-50% more free unbound copper is in the body. Copper normally can act as toxic agent for micro-organisms. Candida however has good defense mechanisms and may increase its virulence when more free unbound copper is available. During pregnancy ceruloplasmin is increased and that leads to perhaps less free unbound copper, perhaps (very speculative again :) ) reduce experienced symptoms. Copper overload may also lead to a increased adrenergic autonomic reaction. People with more severe copper problems, such as in Wilson disease, may have autonomic problems as well, mainly impaired parasympathetic function. Adrenalin increase such as happens in orgasm may lead to increased serum levels of copper. When people have a deficiency ceruloplasmin, then more free unbound copper may be released causing a negativ effect on the immune system, brain fog etc... The response to daktarin you described is interesting, I have never seen that before. I have to think about that. I don't know very much about IL17 either, so I have to read a bit about that.

Hopeoneday

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2019, 02:34:34 PM »
Low ceruloplasmin is comon patern in poisers.
So "we are copper toxic", but, what can we do about that?
Dr-pois.

demografx

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2019, 02:37:11 PM »
Fox, some of us - including me - have hypothesized that physical trauma may contribute to POIS. For some people. In my particular case, a surgical correction to an undescended testicle at birth. Any thoughts would be more than welcome.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Animus

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2019, 12:58:20 PM »
My thoughts on the Leaky Gut Theory. Leaky Brain theory as to the <Cause> of POIS is that it is highly improbable.  I really do not think Celiac Disease has any direct Causal Relationship to POIS.

However, I do note, and would like to be clear, that POIS does cause an Intensification of Existing Illnesses.  So if you do have Celiac Disease. POIS could worsen it. I am really glad to hear that your symptoms have improved by changing your diet.

Hello Animus,
I think your case is very relevant to the understanding of POIS as a disease. It proves that it is not a pure psychological disease and that by severely reducing semen/Sperma POIS may be cured. As we still don't know in what exact way your surgery cured POIS and don't if the same effect can be achieved we need to be very cautious from a medical standpoint. One big problem with the procedure is that it is a one-way trip with risks of complication, such as not be able anymore to get erections and orgasms. I think it is never bad to advice general health improvement by healthy diet, because even when the gut has nothing to do with it, it may as you also state have additional negative effect on POIS. I too don't believe that celiac disease related strong to POIS. At least on person on the forum here had negative genetic for celiac.
We speculate about different theory models for a better understanding of POIS. Because the scientific research so far about POIS is a bit lacking, there may be a benefit of sharing different ideas and causes. As a MD I have a special interest in rare diseases. I recently detected a potential deadly disease in a patient who had been seeing doctors for more than a year. As stated by someone before, many MDs are a bit inclined to focus on one certain aspect of a problem (perhaps the thing related to their specialty). They can also be a bit rigid about taking extra time for a patient in complex cases, when they are used to plan only a few minutes for a patient.  In some countries the medical training is extremely good and then it may be less a problem.  Even "easy" diseases as celiac disease being diagnosed with long delay. It takes 7 years on average to diagnose myasthenia.
I believe that sharing results and ideas may perhaps even cause a major breakthrough in the understanding of POIS.

Hello Fox,
thank you for your response.  I agree that a good diet is helpful no matter what the ailment. After all, they say food is the best medecine of all. And it certainly does not hurt to share ones successes when dealing with POIS.

And yes, I think your characterization of my solution is correct, as  "severely reducing (the production of) Semen, Sperma" to counter POIS.

On the topic of Diet, which is very interesting... I have an observation to add. I don't know if it's relevant to others as well... But I found, and still find, that eating lots of meat- Protein- will have the effect of stimulating my sexual functions.  So when I had POIS, and I ate a lot of meat for dinner- I would feel an unusually strong urge to have sex.  By a lot of meat- I mean, more than say 1/2 a pound, approaching 1 pound. 

Just speculating, but I wonder if becoming vegetarian would have a beneficial effect on POIS? and if there are any vegetarian members here who may have noticed something. Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 01:36:54 PM by Animus »

Animus

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Re: Leaky gut, leaky brain theory
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2019, 01:03:04 PM »
Fox, some of us - including me - have hypothesized that physical trauma may contribute to POIS. For some people. In my particular case, a surgical correction to an undescended testicle at birth. Any thoughts would be more than welcome.

Demo, Very much agree that POIS is a reaction to Physical Trauma.  Very interesting to hear that you had testicular surgery prior to getting POIS.