Author Topic: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis  (Read 5008 times)

PotatoEd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« on: August 16, 2017, 05:52:35 PM »
Sorry guys, it turned out to be quite a read


Hello fellow sufferers,

I'm PotatoEd, aged 26, living in the beautiful country of the Netherlands. As I have found this forum, I too suffer(ed) from the symptoms of POIS. Potentially interesting to know is the fact that I was diagnosed with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis at age 2. It might suggest a possible connection of POIS with auto-immunity, but of course, it could as well have nothing to do with it. As a RA patient I've had my share of medication, mostly Ibuprofen (600 mg 3x daily) and immunosupressor Methotrexate (17,5 mg weekly).

I'm quite sure my misery began when all medication was discontinued due to my joints being healthy for several years. I'm speaking of depression, fatigue, brain fog/cognitive impairment and severe acne. Relatively recently I had an episode of what doctors wanted to diagnose as panic attacks/anxiety, but my joints started showing inflammation just prior to that, and shortly after I had quite the uve?tis (eye inflammation), an ear-infection and a mysterious swelling of my right lower leg, making it look like a balloon. I had already started taking Ibuprofen again for my arthritis before the panic attack-ish complaints began.

Though the POIS symptoms had lasted for a very long time, I kinda was used to it being my usual state of being, so I never really thought of it as a medical issue and considered it as something I was just cursed to be feeling like. Therefore I never really went to a doctor for anything except the regular checkups with the rheumatologist. Since all of the complaints, the swollen joints, the balloon-like leg, the ear-infection, uve?tis and everything else started so suddenly at the same time, I couldn't be satisfied with just being diagnosed with anxiety. That diagnose was after some regular bloodwork, thyroid check (TSH) and even endoscopy since there were also gastrointestinal complaints and Crohn's disease also runs in the family. Nothing to be found there. Since nothing seemed to help, I agreed to see a psychologist and eventually a psychiatrist, I told them farewell after a bad experience with prescribed Wellbutrin (bupropion) and the psychologist didn't get me anywhere either. It didn't help that the psych's told me that depression isn't understood and that they have no clue about the mechanism of the available psychmeds. At least I tried.


I had already started my own research in the meanwhile, and I've come across most of the medical disciplines in the meanwhile. Anatomy, diseases, hormones, neurotransmitters, nutritients, medication, supplements and loads of PubMed articles in the hope to find something to relieve the malaise. A while ago now I stumbled across this forum and read into it a bit, though it's still alot, so my apologies if I'm not fully up to date yet.

I noticed before already that Ibuprofen alleviated symptoms, both physical complaints as psychological aspects, including depressive thoughts and it seemed to improve my cognitive functions. On this forum the Ibuprofen was also mentioned, besides the very popular Niacin and ginger root seems to be gaining poularity as well. It's always a good thing to have a couple of good suggestions from people with experience, thanks to everyone who helped setting up this community and everyone who contributes to it!


Combining all of the information I've read through, your experiences and my own, I'll give it a go to express my thoughts on it.

As for the allergic reaction to one's own semen, I'm not really buying it. There's something like precum that doesn't really seem to give any symptoms, and I would expect to more of us complain about actual penile symptoms, but I hardly/don't see those. Some bodyfluids/substances just aren't meant to be injected slowly under the skin, there are (only a very few) known (crazy) cases of urine injected in the skin, those resulted in an immune-reaction since it was just infectious. Guess what shares the same pathway. Another (probably less likely) explanation of the skin reaction could be due to the dry skin (a symptom for some people, possible due to a changed fluid homeostasis on cellular level under influence of dopamine/prolactin) injected with a saline solution, therefore disrupting fluid homeostasis. And besides, spermcells are designed to invade eggcells, could they maybe even invade other cells as well? Maybe some crazy thoughts, but I'm quite sceptical towards the allergy theory, as you may have figured. The niacine flush does involve a rush of histamine, but I think another mechanism is helpful there.

The niacin flush is said to be caused by vasodilation due to the rush of histamine. Ibuprofen's mechanism of action is vasodilation caused by inhibiting cyclo-oxygenase. I knew of this quality of both of these chemical compounds, but it took me a while before I could think of why that would be beneficial. Out of the blue, I remembered an article I've read, probably 10 years ago. The title was something like "(Making) love makes blind". It explained how bloodvessels could burst during sexual activity, especially during orgasm due to a sudden buildup of bloodpressure in the head. A similar article can be found here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/seriouslyscience/2014/11/05/apparently-vigorous-sex-can-burst-blood-vessel-eye-cause-blindness/#.WY-QjlFJZPY In this particular case the bloodpressure buildup is explained by a 'valsalva manouvre', in this case pausing and locking the breathing in the diaphragm. I'd say it is not unlikely that the increased pressure isn't solely on the eyes, I'd say all the bloodvessels in the head could potentially suffer from it. Brain, nose, mouth, ears, you get it. Vasodilation lowers bloodpressure and thus, it could give some, or enough protection against the sudden high blood pressure in the head.

I've known for years my breathing isn't the perfect deep-abdomen breathing and I became even more aware when I became extremely self-conscious when all of my body seemed to shut down. However, because of all the information I had come across, the focus wasn't there, until this theory started to take shape. I've tried a big O twice last saturday with the deep abdomen breathing in mind, and trying to find and keep that way of breathing where I didn't feel any pressure in my head and actually felt relaxed. The O's were definitely less intense, but a very satisfied feeling stayed for at least an hour afterwards, almost to be described as tripping out lol. Afterwards I wouldn't say I was fatigued, a bit tired, but I'd say that's perfectly normal (finally!!). I didn't have any plans for that night, but I felt like I could have gone to a party that same night without already feeling a hangover. The next day I went for a run, which went pretty good actually. In full POIS-mode I wouldn't even have gathered the motivation to put on my running shoes, or would have been exhausted/overheated after a mile or two, but besides my legs feeling a bit weak (low T perhaps), I was actually doing alright! First time in ages I felt alright after.

So in my theory, would it only be the breathing? What about hormones? What about the auto-immune mechanisms? I have some thoughts on it, but definitely the auto-immune one is very speculative. Serotonin is said to be stored in the gut, 95% of a body's serotonin is said to be in the gut. The most common definition of depression (low serotonin) often comes with gastrointestinal complaints. Also, irritable bowel syndrome has been treated with 5-HTP, the serotonin. Sexual activity definitely involves serotonin and could result in depletion or overstimulation. For years I've been unaware my abs were always flexed, only since two years I've grown aware that my bowel restricted my breathing, definitely being worse after sexual activity. Not being able to relax my abdominal muscles because I'd experience discomfort in my diaphragm area definitely resulted in an impaired breathing technique.

Testosterone is a very potent vasodilator, therefore it could definitely have a protective function in my theory. Also to probably a much lesser extent, less T would mean less abdominal muscles to take care of the perfect breathing technique. Besides, testosterone is known to have an anti-inflammatory effect, which could therefore be quite useful in preventing the POIS symptoms. Many other will have their effect as well probably, but for now I'll keep it at this.

As for auto-immunity, I did have a thought on that, though not to be taken too seriously at the moment (yet). The thymus, an organ in which the immune-cells 'ripen', is located between the lungs, you can use google to find images for it's exact location and it's function. It's probably a crazy thought, but possibly, with a wrong breathing technique, it could be hypothesized that the lungs can put pressure on the thymus, and could therefore ('prematurely') squeeze out immune-cells, resulting in an unwanted immune-reaction. Another mechanism could a changed hypothalamic action or a changed pituitary due to the blood pressure rise I mentioned before. BTW, it's probably not just the breathing that would add to the suggested blood pressure rise, also a bad posture or flexing of the neckmuscles might have an effect.


It might be a really crazy theory, but at least for myself I'm actually quite (/probably overly) excited about it. I'll definitely give it a couple of goes to try try it out some more, and I hope some of you, in the best case case alot of you will find this helpful. Please feel very free to give your thoughts on this, and good luck to you all!

PotatoEd










Quantum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1798
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 09:18:55 PM »
Hi PotatoEd, and welcome to the forum.

I have read through your post.  Many ideas, and it is getting late here, so I cannot comment a lot at the moment.

However, I can let you know that Colm, one of the moderator here, has been using a breathing technique for more than a year, I think.  I am sure he will comment when he will read your post.

For me, yoga is part of my overall method of POIS control, through stress management, and  abdominal breathing is part of yoga breathing.  I do not use it consciously at the time of release, though, but could give it a try.

Keep us informed on how it goes with your breathing technique.  Whatever the real mechanism is, if deep breathing brings you relief, than it could be of help for other members too. 

You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Vandemolen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 890
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 04:27:13 PM »
I'm PotatoEd, aged 26, living in the beautiful country of the Netherlands. As I have found this forum, I too suffer(ed) from the symptoms of POIS. Potentially interesting to know is the fact that I was diagnosed with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis at age 2. It might suggest a possible connection of POIS with auto-immunity, but of course, it could as well have nothing to do with it. As a RA patient I've had my share of medication, mostly Ibuprofen (600 mg 3x daily) and immunosupressor Methotrexate (17,5 mg weekly).
Wow you are very young Rheumatism patient! I know this is an old topic, but how are you doing now? I think my SI joints are swollen or infected. At that spot it is very warm. But only when I lean against the spot on a bench or couch. There could be a connection between POIS and rheumatism.

Check this research about the connection between low testosterone and Artrititis:

https://ard.bmj.com/content/73/3/573
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 04:32:28 PM by Vandemolen »
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

swell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2019, 01:41:47 PM »
b/w: belly breathing or deep breathing is powerful stuff for stress mgmt, and stress I believe is key in POIS.  I have been practicing it daily for like 5 mins.  My natural breathing is messed up.  Is belly breathing supposed to be 24x7 or practicing 5-10 daily sufficient?
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

dizzy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2019, 07:32:40 PM »
Also don't forget to relax the jaw while breathing. Makes a big difference for me.
Male, INTJ. POIS symptoms: red eyes, ear-pain, anxiety, speech problems, pale/ugly skin, stiff neck, double chin, tinnitus, light sensitivity. POIS even after stimulation without O.

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3081
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2019, 07:43:32 PM »
My natural breathing is messed up.
Yes especially during POIS. My body refuses to maintain a continuous breathing rhythm. It's disrupted and when I breath it's most of the time by expansion of the chest. I'm more prone to stress when breathing is messed up. Really problematic.

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3081
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 10:51:57 AM »
I got this problem since puberty. Bad posture plus weak muscles(probably due to POIS)--->stress--->breathing problems-->stress--->heavier breathing problems plus more autonomic problems like digestion and circulation issues. There were a few years where I was completely ripped muscle wise but it was still stressful to maintain posture especially in POIS. 

swell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 10:56:29 PM »
I dont think Muon POIS causes weak muscles, I believe it "aggravates" it.  I believe POISers have a "pre-existing" reduced muscle "protein synthesis" and with ejaculation - a significant "catabolic event" which places extra demand ("anabolic demands") on metabolic pathways (i.e. "growth processes" which being already compromised in POIS'ers), a "thin epithelial tissue" - very important (this has been I think neglected in POIS research), our body efficiently puts us in a freeze-mode for 7 days, until anabolic processes catch up to this catabolic event. 

I think why doctors would hesitate to diagnose and treat POIS (apart from being that it is not yet known :) is that the mechanics of POIS are not inherently injurious to human health (apart from quality of life / emotional lability it imposes on us), in fact (while I'm venturing on speculation here), POISers might live a longer life than non-POISers.   

Can you all believe, I came to this forum, afraid of POIS, this terrible 7 day sickness.  And I believe I effectively cured myself as part of experimentation on myself  (admittedly inspired by many of you here).  However I have learnt over this 2-year journey that underlying mechanisms of POIS are really healthy and could be beneficial to body - provided we tweak them productively. 

What I have learnt on myself, POIS is:
a) a Chronic Growth Factor deficiency.  I get 100% normal (POIS free) when I increase growth promoting compounds over a period of 3 months+.  That said, this is weird, I have come to appreciate POIS.  While I would agree POIS is not good for everyone, but for the brave, we can use POIS to our advantage.  POIS'ers have a biochemical profile that is 'gifted'.  If we can engage in healthy exercise, improve our posture, eat healthy, use supplements (note: extracts are better than individual compounds, e.g. take Cod liver oil (that has Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin K in ideal ratios) rather than taking a synthetic Vitamin A, or Vitamin D3 alone), I think we have a metabolic profile built for longevity. 

b) Thin epithelial tissue.  I think this needs to be researched and rectified in POIS'ers.   Growth deficiency "can" be good, but thin epithelial tissue is problematic.  There are many toxins, allergic compounds, everywhere, that we need to cure this.  Think about it, all POISers get this (whether you call it or not), allergic/immune/inflammatory response to semen.  Dont get hung on allergic vs immune vs inflammation, these are really one and same at a reasonably abstract level.  And smart abstraction is where we can find conquer POIS.  While you can conquer POIS through anabolic building (taking Leucine, BCAA's, protein, growth factor promoting compounds), but I think, this is where lies the real healthy solution to POIS.  A brilliant molecular biologist will solve it (I keep on thinking nanna1 :))  With a normal epithelial layer, we would not succumb to the allergic or immune or inflammatory cascade.  A targeted/specific improvement of epithelial tissue (specially lining the male reproductive tract) seems to be healthiest point of intervention to me.   And plus, with this epithelial treatment, it will cure our sore throats, hay fever, allergic rhinnitus issues, etc.

I got this problem since puberty. Bad posture plus weak muscles(probably due to POIS)--->stress--->breathing problems-->stress--->heavier breathing problems plus more autonomic problems like digestion and circulation issues. There were a few years where I was completely ripped muscle wise but it was still stressful to maintain posture especially in POIS.
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

swell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Introduction and breathing technique hypothesis
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2019, 03:46:11 PM »
My point being in the above that a thinner epithelial layer increases permeability for toxins, allergens, viruses and exposes us to all kinds of prospective problems that are - immune system over-reaction, viruses, antibodies attacking organs, inflammation cascades, and the list can go on and on.  The medical profession (I greatly value it) and experts has produced great research but selectively focused on these problems that I believe are un-necessary/avoidable. 

What I am saying is, our POIS could be very well triggered by EBV, Herpes, our semen etc, but that is NOT important to us - the patient.  I think medical profession has not articulated it well that our bodies are full of viruses, all kinds, some not even discovered.  Our bodies are full of bacteria, all kinds - including candida, friendly, and not friendly, candida is not an issue, only overgrowth is.  I dont think it is prudent trying to kill these bacteria or viruses or allergens - who ever they may be - our semen or herpes.  We POISers are getting exposed to these bacteria/viruses/allergens only because of this 'permeability/weakness' in the epithelial tissue layer.  If this tissue (that is present in our sinuses, throat, gut, reproductive tract) gets fixed, I dont know what fixes this?  VEGF?  Growth Factors?   Anyone?
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA