New ideas about POIS and review of excitotoxicity

[Pois 2011]

I dont believe in the Candia theorie. I made the candida test as well and scored like 265 or something. But then again I dont have any lose stool problems, constipation, white coating on tongue , bowel movement, which should be the main symptoms for candida. I asked 2 doctors about it and both reacted pretty much the same. They said candida is something almost esoteric like. If you go to to a nutritionist and you make a candida test they will always tell you that you have overgrowth. Candida would be all around us and there are people with a very bad immune system who have problems with it but you would see that directly on skin etc that they have problems with it.  At least I dont think i have such a problem. I was on a Candida diet and was very strict and later I ate a lot of sugar - it didnt change a thing. What had an influence on me as far as I believe was when I started eating prossessed sweets again - but here I blame the other ingriedients. White sugar seems to be fine to me...

Regarding Vitamin C I tried the vitamin C Flush a couple of times and felt very good affterwards. Read about it here: http://www.beyondhealthnews.com/wpnews/index.php/2012/08/the-vitamin-c-flush-a-critical-weapon-in-the-fight-for-health/
but it wont heal Pois. Maybe it could give you some further relieve.

[VSmasher]

I dont believe in the Candia theorie. I made the candida test as well and scored like 265 or something. But then again I dont have any lose stool problems, constipation, white coating on tongue , bowel movement, which should be the main symptoms for candida. I asked 2 doctors about it and both reacted pretty much the same. They said candida is something almost esoteric like. If you go to to a nutritionist and you make a candida test they will always tell you that you have overgrowth. Candida would be all around us and there are people with a very bad immune system who have problems with it but you would see that directly on skin etc that they have problems with it.  At least I dont think i have such a problem. I was on a Candida diet and was very strict and later I ate a lot of sugar - it didnt change a thing. What had an influence on me as far as I believe was when I started eating prossessed sweets again - but here I blame the other ingriedients. White sugar seems to be fine to me...

Regarding Vitamin C I tried the vitamin C Flush a couple of times and felt very good affterwards. Read about it here: http://www.beyondhealthnews.com/wpnews/index.php/2012/08/the-vitamin-c-flush-a-critical-weapon-in-the-fight-for-health/
but it wont heal Pois. Maybe it could give you some further relieve.

That's because most Medical Doctors aren't taught in medical school about candida.

Below is a link to more than 61,000 scientific studies about candida...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=candida

And if you have candida in your blood stream, it doesn't always cause gut issues.

Trust me. Candida is very very real.

Just because a doctor doesn't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist..

[caveeater]

Candida makes sense. I certainly have it to some extent (it almost always co-incides with mercury poisoning, which I suspect I have due to having had amalgam fillings for years).

When I did a ketogenic diet, my candida was fairly under control and POIS didn't affect me as badly.

[paradoxx]

Hi trusttheprocess, you raise some concepts about candida which seem plausible. While I find it easy to believe that candida is a common problem and involved in at least some cases of POIS, I remain sceptical about it. Earlier in my life I was really polarized towards 'natural' health practicioners while condemning academic medicine (now I guess i believe its much more complex). It was during that time (2008) when I saw an alternative practicioner for my digestive issues. His diagnosis was candida based on viewing a blood sample in a dark field microscope (http://tarahealthcentre.com.au/Services/Ev-methods/Darkfield.htm). He let me take a look through the microscope and it all seemed very plausible. As a treatment he prescribed me an antifungal rectal suppository plus a skin cream and told me to avoid certain foods for a while. As far as i can remember, my problems didn't really disappear during the next months and I stopped pursing the candida topic. Over the years, i kept stumbling over the topic every now and again like here in this thread. Until now I don't know what to think of it (the previous two posts here pretty much sum up the conflict I have in my mind) and didn't take enough time yet to understand all of what was posted about it here, but still I wanted to share these things.

Did anyone else ever get a candida diagnosis and what's your opinion on dark field microscopy (if you have one)?

[trusttheprocess]

Hey fellow POISers,

Sorry I haven't updated you guys sooner on my results with candida supplements, I was hoping to report almost complete reduction of symptoms with it, but unfortunately it is a very slow process.  It's similar to when I took my 23andme test, discovered I had issues processing vitamins B & D, and started taking those.  Great improvement of symptoms at first, but mixed results since then. 

I'm not going to change anything, however.  Candida is a notoriously tough pathogen to get rid of, almost all cases I've read about needed multiple strong antibiotics to cure it, and the only way to convince a doctor that it could get in the nervous system is to get a cereberospinal fluid sample and do extensive tests on it.  This is because every case of candida that's been studied has varied, with some only harmlessly colonizing and others being life threatening.  This is why doctors believe it is so rare, they only consider it if someone is having life threatening encephalitis, and they must do tests are far from the normal standard of care.

There are numerous reasons why my improvement in symptoms have diminished.  I had gastrointestinal problems the first week of the supplements, but felt absolutely great.  Then, I was sick for two weeks.  The supplements definitely did not start my illness, that happened after a late night out.  When I was sick I had thrush on my tongue which is rare for me and is a sign of candida overgrowth, but I also used asthma medicine which can cause that.  I haven't been strict at all with my diet, which is slowing my recovery as sugar and alcohol feed candida.  I have also gone into POIS a few times and did not take any supplements before, which probably played a part in getting me sick and why I didn't recover sooner.  I was hoping the candida supplements would work right away, but for the reasons described above I have a feeling it will take a while.

I was hoping to get more concrete results, but I still believe those will come with time.  Also I've been very busy starting an internship doing medical research, first week I filled out a proposal to our IRB for a study.  We are doing an ex vivo study on human tissue samples, and even though there was no chance of adverse effects for the participants, there were dozens of questions asking us to anticipate the effects it could have on them and how we would handle it.  There is no way Dr. K did not foresee the potential problems with the study, but now that I have a little experience with research I think VNS provided little benefit and he didn't see any point in continuing to subject participants to POIS and publish a paper if there weren't significant results to justify continuing it.

TTP 

[Mr Raba]

It is very common for me to get great initial results that eventually dissipate when tryng supplements.

My body brings everything back to  the lower state of homeostasis.

Very common also on CFS.


Look at blog I mentioned earlier. Healthrising.org.   Many good articles as to why may happen.

For example. Body is or enters into a very high level of oxidative stress. Which causes drastic ireduction in energy generation. Body resorts to anabolic energy production. Which causes a builld up of lactic acid in the brain and body. This alternative energy production pathway being  on causes the CNS and emotional  Symptoms. The diets you mentioned help energy production in that anaerobic pathway.   This discovered and evidenced by recent top researchers in field of CFS. See site history for wealth of info.

CFS is the closest illnesd to POIS I kmow. The overlap is amazing. The main symptom difference is that ejaculation triggers temporary episodes in POIS.  But in CFS  is energy use. Several of us have a clear case of BOTH CFS AND POIS. Others in varying degrees.

[demografx]

Interesting how many parallels you see between
CFS & , Mr Raba.

[Mr Raba]

TT, Demo and all.

Several have mentioned that they benefit from ketogenic diet.

Here is a recovery story and lots if info on it.

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2017/06/13/loris-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fibromyalgia-ketogenic-success-story/

Again look at this site for lots of good info the biology of inflammation, vagus nerve, microglia, brain inflammation, autoimmunity, brain fog, energy production issues, oxidative stress, etc.

[trusttheprocess]

It is very common for me to get great initial results that eventually dissipate when tryng supplements.

My body brings everything back to  the lower state of homeostasis.

Very common also on CFS.


Look at blog I mentioned earlier. Healthrising.org.   Many good articles as to why may happen.

For example. Body is or enters into a very high level of oxidative stress. Which causes drastic ireduction in energy generation. Body resorts to anabolic energy production. Which causes a builld up of lactic acid in the brain and body. This alternative energy production pathway being  on causes the CNS and emotional  Symptoms. The diets you mentioned help energy production in that anaerobic pathway.   This discovered and evidenced by recent top researchers in field of CFS. See site history for wealth of info.

CFS is the closest illnesd to POIS I kmow. The overlap is amazing. The main symptom difference is that ejaculation triggers temporary episodes in POIS.  But in CFS  is energy use. Several of us have a clear case of BOTH CFS AND POIS. Others in varying degrees.

I seem to be getting better, slowly but surely, have only seen a slight decrease in POIS symptoms but let me explain why this is still very good news.

First off I agree that CFS and POIS have great parallels, as I think the drastic reduction in energy generation is not why we have POIS, but is why our bodies take several days to recover from the factors that cause POIS.

I think high levels of histamine lets candida into the brain, and as a result the brain produces IDO, which depletes tryptophan to signal to T-cells that they need to kill the candida.  This unfortunately leads to a temporary state of pellegra, the first factor in decreased energy production.  It also mounts a highly cytotoxic and damaging immune response which uses a great amount of energy, factor two.  Finally the killing of the candida triggers a herxheimer reaction (a normal - and even healthy - detoxification reaction that indicates that parasites, fungus, viruses, bacteria or other pathogens are being effectively killed off).  This releases 79 toxins, causing the high level of oxidative stress, factor three.

Then as you have said the body resorts to anabolic energy production, causing a build up of lactic acid.  This causes a state known as acidosis in the body, which is why we have such sore muscles and foamy urine, and also contributes to many other POIS symptoms.

The reason my recovery from candida overgrowth has been a slow and unpleasant experience is because killing the candida releases these toxins and causes oxidative stress.  Just google candida die off or candida herxheimer reaction, there are dozens of pages on how to get through it as easily as possible.  Although I've been very lax with the diet, I'm taking the best supplements I could, and after a month of this I feel I've reached a turning point in this treatment.

[VSmasher]

TrustTheProccess,

      Me to brother. I have been on a candida killing diet for almost 8 months now and I am finally turning the corner and having great results. I have 1 or 2 orgasms a week now and my POIS is almost completely gone.

 I cut about 85% of the sugar out of my diet. I also take anti-candida supplements daily. The first 5 months of the candida cleanse were hell. I was iching all over, sneezing, flakey rash on my face and scalp, bad anxiety and stress, bad vivid nightmares, and so on. It was well worth it though because now I have almost no die off symptoms. And my POIS is only about 15% of what it once was.

Keep me updated on your progress!!

Good luck!!

[paradoxx]

Wanted to drop a link to a good article I found, reading it and carefully rereading the information in this thread cleared up a lot of my confusion on candida. The article made me aware of the many studies on candida I didn't know existed: https://www.jeremyrhammond.com/2014/09/17/intestinal-candida-overgrowth-real-condition/

@trusttheprocess/VagSmasher: From what I understood killing the candida releases toxins which the body needs to get rid off causing the intense reactions you describe. Maybe this explains the heavy reactions I get from coconut oil. Are you adding additional supplements for supporting the liver during this process? A doctor once told me I have a weak liver so I want to be careful in my next attempt.

[Quantum]

Wanted to drop a link to a good article I found, reading it and carefully rereading the information in this thread cleared up a lot of my confusion on candida. The article made me aware of the many studies on candida I didn't know existed: https://www.jeremyrhammond.com/2014/09/17/intestinal-candida-overgrowth-real-condition/

@trusttheprocess/VagSmasher: From what I understood killing the candida releases toxins which the body needs to get rid off causing the intense reactions you describe. Maybe this explains the heavy reactions I get from coconut oil. Are you adding additional supplements for supporting the liver during this process? A doctor once told me I have a weak liver so I want to be careful in my next attempt.

Interesting article, paradoxx, thanks.  This article could explain, at least in part, why taking probiotics and reducing sugar have been beneficial for many POIS sufferers

Interestingly, I have integrated organic coconut oil in my smoothies, a few months ago.  I didn't know it could be beneficial for the guts, I added it for its nutritional qualities.  But, good and healthy foods have many positive properties, and even if we don't know all the specifics, changing for a completely healthy diet bring many benefits, even when we are not aware of many of them

[notmythirdaccount]

TrustTheProccess,

      Me to brother. I have been on a candida killing diet for almost 8 months now and I am finally turning the corner and having great results. I have 1 or 2 orgasms a week now and my POIS is almost completely gone.

 I cut about 85% of the sugar out of my diet. I also take anti-candida supplements daily. The first 5 months of the candida cleanse were hell. I was iching all over, sneezing, flakey rash on my face and scalp, bad anxiety and stress, bad vivid nightmares, and so on. It was well worth it though because now I have almost no die off symptoms. And my POIS is only about 15% of what it once was.

Keep me updated on your progress!!

Good luck!!

Hey VM,

Can you elaborate on your die-off symptoms? I've noticed a horrible itch that happens after I take probiotics (1 month in now). I keep reading that this is a die-off symptom but want to make sure it's not an adverse effect of taking them.

Thanks/

[paradoxx]

Interesting article, paradoxx, thanks.  This article could explain, at least in part, why taking probiotics and reducing sugar have been beneficial for many POIS sufferers

Interestingly, I have integrated organic coconut oil in my smoothies, a few months ago.  I didn't know it could be beneficial for the guts, I added it for its nutritional qualities.  But, good and healthy foods have many positive properties, and even if we don't know all the specifics, changing for a completely healthy diet bring many benefits, even when we are not aware of many of them

It seems that many of the things that have been reported to help POIS directly or indirectly influence the gut flora in a positive way (ginger, garlic, niacin, olive leaf extract etc) and a disrupted flora / dysbiosis could be one of the underlying factors in POIS. If that is true, it makes sense that a healthy diet is a reasonable way to address this. Though I agree there might be other benefits we are not aware of (yet). I'm interested in the smoothies you prepare, did you already write about them somewhere?

[Quantum]

I'm interested in the smoothies you prepare, did you already write about them somewhere?

Hi paradoxx,

I have mentioned them, didn't write about them.  So here is some information and a typical recipe I prepare.

I have started green smoothies because it is a great way to consume a large volume of healthy veggies, and fruits, and other healthy food, in a tasty and easy way.  I had difficulty in particular with eating some kind of green veggies, even in salad.  For example, kale is one of the best greeny leafs there is from a nutritional point of view, but I don't enjoy at all eating raw kale, and not even in a salad.  But they easily blend in my green smoothies !

Here is a typical recipe of my green smoothies: 

Organic kale    2/3 to 1 cup   ( always included !)

Organic broccoli   2/3 to 1 cup   ( Always included too! I use the stem, the leafs too when some left, not only the flower tops)

Source water   100ml / 4 oz    ( to ease the mix in the blender)

1 organic banana  ( always included, great for the taste)

1/2 organic apple

1/2 organic tomato

Organic virgin, cold pressed coconut oil   2 to 4 tablespoon, depending on your taste, but I really like it  ( to know if your oil is a good brand and has not been tempered with, it has to smell coconut - if no smell, it has been processed )

Grapefruit juice 100ml/4 oz   (  good for the liver, but caution, grapefruit juice is a potent CYP3A4 inhibitor, an important enzyme in the liver, so it interacts significantly with many prescribed and OTC drugs, and those interactions can be severe, so check out with your pharmacist or physician if you can take grapefuit or grapefruit juice, or just use another fruit juice , since this is quite specific to grapefruit juice and some rare citrus like Pomelo and Seville oranges - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_interactions for more details.  Of course, the safest alternative is to skip the juice, or replace it with source water or coconut water to work the smoothie to the desired consistency ) )

Frozen mango chunks      1/2 cup   ( this with banana add up to a great taste ) ( I use the no pesticides-no gmo Nature's Touch brand from Costco - there are virtually no organic mangos available around here)

Organic basilic    one or two leaves

Organic parsley     a little bit

Organic chia or kemp      1 or 2 oz  ( source of complete proteins, and lots of vitamins and minerals, and omega-3 too)

2 times a week, I add organic red beets, that are good for the liver... turn my green smoothie to a red smoothie, of course !


 I can also add some of what I have on hand:  some organic spinach, or some red berries, or some blueberries, or some organic green peas, or some organic carrot, or organic psweet pepper bell, and so on.

I add sometime some organic ginger, or organic cinnamon, or organic cacao powder, or else.  But never again I will add spiruline in my smoothies, for me it totally spoils the taste !  ( I take spirulina powder apart, in water ).


After nearly six months, I got used to get a result that suits my taste.  But at the start, it happened I had to adjust the final result by adding some maple syrup or organic vanilla soya drink, to make it more tasty and more enjoyable.

The taste I get has nothing to do with high sugar commercial preparations, but since I had cut refined sugar for a long time now this is very tasty to me and sweet enough.

I mix everything in the blender and usually consume half the quantity right after making it, and put the other half in a mason jar, in the fridge, for later in the day.


I do not always have the 30 mins or so to mix all the ingredients and clean the blender and everything after.  So, I have two back ups in the form of healthy organic juices:  either the Biotta Breuss ( http://biotta.ch/en/products/biotta-classic/breuss/ ), or the Suja Mighty Dozen organic greens, that I buy at Costco ( see https://www.burpy.com/costco/suja-essentials-organic-mighty-greens-juice/product-detail/1146247 ).    This way, I can have my daily dose of organic veggies and fruits, even if I have much work to do, or a family event, or anything else.

After six months, I had great benefits from this new addition to my diet.  I am not a total vegan, I eat eggs, meat, some cheese, but adding this much fruits and high quality veggies on a daily basis have been good for my health.  For example, I did not have a single cold or flu this last winter despite the harsh cold of Canada, a first in many years, and my green smoothies may be one of the reason why.

Let me know if you have any questions. Of course, anyone interested should start slowly, with only a few ingredients - my recipes have grown to  become quite elaborate, after all these months.  just 4 to 5 ingredients can do for a starter, and I use to go for half fruits-half veggies in volume, in the beginning, but I am now more leaning toward 2/3 veggies - 1/3 fruits.  Experiment !

Cheers !


( p.s.  I may re-post this on a separate thread, I think it is a good thing to promote healthy diet among the POIS sufferers community )

[trusttheprocess]

Hey guys, been a while since I posted last, I've been very busy at my internship as a researcher this summer along with continuing the candida diet (seeing slowly improving symptoms). 

Paradoxx, supporting the liver during candida cleanse is a good idea, candida die-off produces acetyaldehyde, the by product of alcohol that damages your liver.  I've heard many people recommend NAC, as it has been proven to kill candida and produces glutathione which protects the liver.

Quantum, I'm not much of a chef or smoothie person, but I like your diet as I've adapted something very similar.  I've seen it referred to as the MEVY diet, where I'm just eating Meat, Eggs, Vegetables, and Yogurt (with live cultures).  Cheese is prohibited on a Candida diet, as is sugar, although candida can also feed on ketones from if you consume too little sugar so fruits are an ideal source of this sugar. 

VS, Great news! Very glad to hear the candida diet is working so well!  The die off symptoms can be harsh at times, and progress very slow, I realized it would take a very long time but I was hoping it would be less than 8 months.  I'm starting a new semester of college soon and I will do just about anything to shorten that, so I'm trying to get a prescription for an anti-fungal.  Thanks for letting me know it would take this long, this has made me do a lot of research (posted below), which has made me think anti-fungals would be much more useful than a candida diet for POIS.  This is because I think we have more systemic, deep seated infections of candida than just the gastrointestinal tract.

Before I get to that information I just wanted to say I recently ordered urine test strips to finally find out why my urine gets cloudy during POIS.  I'm two days into POIS now and have come up with some good results from this.  Day one of the urine test read that I had a pH of 5, which is a sign the body is trying to fight an infection.  This tests also revealed a small to moderate amount of white blood cells in my urine, which is commonly found with urinary tract infections, both fungal and bacterial.  By day two of the urine tests the pH remained the same, but the white blood cells had almost disappeared and yet there were still white cloudy particles in my urine. I read that if you notice white specks in your urine, this may be yeast (from Candidahub).  I went to the doctor to see if they could get a urine culture for fungi, they did confirm an abnormally low pH but they normally only culture urine for bacteria, and the doctor wasn't sure if the lab would culture for fungi but is going to ask.  In the meantime I have done some research on the presence of candida in the urine, and the possible link this has to prostate inflammation.

[trusttheprocess]

Overview on Candidal Urinary Tract Infection

In the last decades, fungal urinary tract infections (UTI) due to candida yeasts have increased significantly. Recently, Behzadi et al. reported the incidence of UTI associated with Candida albicans to be 6.8% of all microbial UTIs. Fisher et al. have recently published a review article on Candida infection of the urinary tract. They could conclude that Candida organisms are very well equipped for colonization and invasion of the urinary tract, and little is currently known about the regulating factors for Candida virulence. (Chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome: the role of an antifungal regimen. Central European Journal of Urology. 2013)

Candida Albicans, a commensal yeast that inhabits human skin and mucosa and thrives on sugars and carbohydrates.  Candida can be isolated from up to 70% of the general population at any given moment, and it is believed that all individuals have been colonized with Candida at a some point (Functional genomics identifies type I interferon pathway as central for host defense against Candida albicans. Nature Communcations. 2013).  Although it is a commensal organism, C. albicans can also cause mucosal and systemic infections, and is the most common cause of fungal infection in immunocompromised persons.  Despite the advances in diagnostic mycology, candiduria (candida found in urine) definition and management remains a controversial subject.  Most research on candidal infection (invasive candidiasis) is done on immunocompromised patients (with HIV, Cancer, etc.) or on hospital patients, and most doctors do not consider it outside of these patients.  Here are some good reasons why they should.

1) Some individuals are genetically predisposed to fungal infection.  When persistent or recurrent invasive fungal infections develop in a "normal" host, they are indicative of genetic defects causing innate or adaptive immune dysfunction.  These seem to be mainly caused by a shift from IL17 immunity (important for the clearance of fungal infections) to a type I interferon response that is broadly implicated in autoimmune disease, caused by mutations in STAT1 and other immune system related genes.  Below are two studies that implicated a few gene families in invasive candidiasis, along with my genetic report for these genes.

(Genetic Susceptibility to Fungal Infections in Humans. Current Fungal Infection Reports. 2012)
AIRE - 5 normal - 5 heterozygous mutations
MPO - 2 normal - 1 homozygous mutation
CARD9 - 1 normal - 2 heterozygous mutations

(Functional genomics identifies type I interferon pathway as central for host defense against Candida albicans. Nature Communcations. 2013)
STAT1 - 16 normal - 3 homozygous mutations
SP110 - 1 heterozygous mutation
PSMB8 - 3 heterozygous mutations
CCL8 - 1 normal

2) Most incidence of candiduria is likely to be underestimated, mainly because the use of standard urine culture is not very sensitive.  Colony counts is considered the corner stone in the diagnosis of bacterial urinary tract infection however, it was not proven to be diagnostically useful in candiduria. In addition, most urine cultures only test for bacterial infection, and throw the urine specimen out before fungus has a chance to grow, so the diagnosis of candiduria may be overlooked. (Epidemiological Study on Species Identification and Susceptibility Profile of Candida in Urine. Fungal Genomics & Biology. 2015 )

3) Candiduria is a common finding, but is often asymptomatic and dismissed by doctors.  They do this because the serious finding of canidida in the blood (candidemia) does not result from the colonization of a single body site, but from multiple sites.  This is becoming increasingly common however, as oropharyngeal (upper respiratory) colonization is found in 30%-55% of healthy young adults, and Candida species may be detected in 40%-65% of normal fecal flora (Medscape. Infectious Diseases. Candidiasis).

4) Candiduria is becoming an increasingly important source of infections in hospitals. People speculate that this is due to the change in our diets away from meats and fats to carbohydrate-rich convenience foods, combined with heavy use of antibiotics in the last 20 years, as there is compelling evidence linking antibiotic usage to the increased incidence of candiduria, or the presence of candida in the urine (Epidemiological Study on Species Identification and Susceptibility Profile of Candida in Urine. Fungal Genomics & Biology. 2015).  92% of Candida bloodstream infections are preceded by a course of broad-spectrum antibiotics (Epidemiology, clinical characteristics, and outcome of candidemia: experience in a tertiary referral center in the UK. International Journal of Infectious Disease. 2011)  Oral or inhaled corticosteroids, as well as TNF inhibitors, can also increase one's risk of fungal infection (from the CDC).

5) There is a large range of reported rates for the complication of candiduria (candida in the urine) turning into the candidemia (candida in the blood stream).  For example, in one study urinary colonization had the highest positive predictive value of candidemia, with 20% of colonized patients subsequently being diagnosed with candidemia (The association between anatomic site of Candida colonization, invasive candidiasis, and mortality in critically ill surgical patients. Mycology. 2006).  In another study of patients with persistent candiduria, 41% developed candidemia, as evidenced by polymerase chain reaction (a highly accurate method).  Most candidemia studies use blood cultures (the current gold standard for candidemia) although the sensitivity of this method is only 50%, and blood cultures become positive late in the disease course (The End of an Era in Defining the Optimal Treatment of Invasive Candidiasis. Oxford Clinical Infectious Diseases. 2012).

If enough sites are colonized by candida then invasive candidiasis can develop, encompassing candidemia and deep-seated candidiasis, infections of tissue sites beneath mucosal surfaces.  Deep-seated infections may remain localized, spread to contiguous sites, or lead to secondary candidemia. Animal models show that deep-seated infections generally persist after clearance of candidemia.  Candida has been shown to infect the bladder, prostate, epididymis, urethra, and kidneys.  Several of these spots are immune privileged, which could explain why the Candida can evade the immune system, and only reach the blood stream on occasion.  Personally I believe POIS to be a candidal infection of the prostate, causing an illness known as prostatitis.

[trusttheprocess]

Overview on Prostatitis

Prostatitis is inflammation of the prostate gland and there are four categories.  90-95% of prostatitis diagnoses fit into category three, known as chronic nonbacterial prostatitis.  The symptoms of prostatitis include painful and frequent urination and post ejaculatory pain, mediated by nerves and muscles, and is a hallmark of the condition.  This serves to distinguish chronic prostatitis from men with BPH or normal men.  The Prostatitis Foundation's list of symptoms get even closer to describing POIS (figure 1).  Also, men with chronic prostatitis are more likely than the general population to suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), and Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS).  Due to the concomitant presence of bladder disorders, gastrointestinal disorders, and mood disorders, research has been conducted to understand whether chronic prostatitis might be caused by problems with the hypothetical bladder-gut-brain axis. Anecdotal evidence suggests that food allergies and intolerances may have a role in exacerbating chronic prostatitis, perhaps through mast cell mediated mechanisms. There is also some evidence of an association between chronic prostatitis with non-celiac gluten sensitivity in some patients (from Wikipedia).

There are also a few more links between prostatitis and POIS.  First, autoimmunity is present in prostatitis, as the CD4 T cell proliferative response to seminal plasma was statistically significant in men with prostatitis compared with healthy men (Autoimmune prostatitis: Evidence of T cell reactivity with normal prostatic proteins. Urology. 1997).  Second, prostatitis likely plays a role in premature ejaculation, the number one symptom of POIS.  Prostatitis was found in almost half of subjects with premature ejaculation in one study, which was significant compared to controls and suggests a role for chronic prostate inflammation in the pathogenesis of some cases of premature ejaculation (Prevalence of chronic prostatitis in men with premature ejaculation. Urology. 2001).  Third, the symptoms of prostatitis confuse doctors.  38% of primary care providers, when presented with a vignette of a man with chronic prostatitis, indicate that they have never seen such a patient. However, the overall prevalence of symptoms suggestive of chronic prostatitis is 6.3%.  Also new evidence suggests that the prevalence of chronic prostatitis is much higher in teenage males than once suspected (all from Wikipedia).  I'm sure there are other links between prostatitis and POIS, as these are just ones I came across as I was researching prostatitis.

In 2003 it was shown that bacteria do not have a significant role in the development of prostatitis, and it has since been studied as a systemic disorder.  The evidence supporting a viral cause of prostatitis and chronic pelvic pain syndrome is weak, and many researchers believe it is caused by a micro-organism (from the NIH).  The symptoms of chronic prostatitis appear to result from an interplay between psychological factors and dysfunction in the immune, neurological, and endocrine systems.  Theories behind the disease include stress-driven hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysfunction and adrenocortical hormone (endocrine) abnormalities, neurogenic inflammation, and myofascial pain syndrome.  In the latter two categories, dysregulation of the local nervous system due to past trauma, infection or an anxious disposition and chronic albeit unconscious pelvic tensing lead to inflammation that is mediated by substances released by nerve cells (from Wikipedia).

The prostate (and other areas of the genitourinary tract: bladder, urethra, testicles) can become inflamed by the action of the chronically activated pelvic nerves on the mast cells at the end of the nerve pathways. Similar stress-induced genitourinary inflammation has been shown experimentally in other mammals.  Chronic nonbacterial prostatitis is furthered classified into inflammatory or noninflammatory based on the levels of white blood cells in expressed prostatic secretions (EPS), although both show subtle signs of inflammation like cytokines.  In 2006, Chinese researchers found that men with categories three prostatitis both had significantly and similarly raised levels of anti-inflammatory cytokine TGFβ1 and pro-inflammatory cytokine IFN-γ in their EPS when compared with controls.  Interferon gamma limits IL-17 production, which plays an important role in anti fungal immunity. (Cutting edge: IFN-gamma regulates the induction and expansion of IL-17-producing CD4 T cells during mycobacterial infection. Journal of Immunology. 2006)

A significant number of men with chronic prostatitis have found relief ranging from a cure to welcome diminution of symptom severity after following an anti-candida regimen. The full science behind this phenomenon is incomplete at this time. It is uncertain whether a yeast overgrowth in the gut lowers general body resistance by attacking the immune system, thereby allowing dormant bacteria in the prostate to re-activate (proven science: Candida Albicans toxins disarm elements of the immune system), or whether the effects on the immune system result in non-bacterial inflammation to the prostate tissue (and often the sinuses as well - another poorly perfused part of the body), or indeed whether the organism actually infects the prostate tissue directly. (from The Prostatitis Foundation) 

A systematic review and meta?analysis of literatures on management of chronic prostatitis in 2011 concluded that although chronic prostatitis had to represent a spectrum of cases that are free of microbial infection, antibiotics administered alone or in combination with alpha?blockers represent the best current modality of treatment for such cases. One study in 2013 tried this on around 70 patients with two weeks of the common antifungal flucanazole daily, and although there was lack of a urine culture documenting fungal infection, 80% of the cases showed significant improvement of their prostatitis symptoms.  Also study patients who received multiple previous courses of antibiotics showed a better response to the antifungal regimen.  Recurrent antibiotic courses block the local immune mechanisms, facilitating the invasion and virulent behavior of the colonized Candida infection.  Patients that showed a response to the antifungal regimen had significantly lower serum total PSA (0.5 ng/ml), so it seems that fungal prostatitis may be associated with lower PSA values (Chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome: the role of an antifungal regimen. Central European Journal of Urology. 2013).  I would like to note that PSA was below 0.5 in one POIS forum member, and another reported in the normal range of 0.5 - 2.0 when you search PSA on this forum.  Other types of fungus have also been investigated as the cause of prostatitis (How to Diagnose and Treat Fungal Infections in Chronic Prostatitis. Current Fungal Infection Reports. 2007).

[paradoxx]

Paradoxx, supporting the liver during candida cleanse is a good idea, candida die-off produces acetyaldehyde, the by product of alcohol that damages your liver.  I've heard many people recommend NAC, as it has been proven to kill candida and produces glutathione which protects the liver.

Thanks for the tip, NAC seems to have benefits for many conditions.

A Review on Various Uses of N-Acetyl Cysteine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241507/

Before I get to that information I just wanted to say I recently ordered urine test strips to finally find out why my urine gets cloudy during POIS.  I'm two days into POIS now and have come up with some good results from this.  Day one of the urine test read that I had a pH of 5, which is a sign the body is trying to fight an infection.  This tests also revealed a small to moderate amount of white blood cells in my urine, which is commonly found with urinary tract infections, both fungal and bacterial.  By day two of the urine tests the pH remained the same, but the white blood cells had almost disappeared and yet there were still white cloudy particles in my urine. I read that if you notice white specks in your urine, this may be yeast (from Candidahub).  I went to the doctor to see if they could get a urine culture for fungi, they did confirm an abnormally low pH but they normally only culture urine for bacteria, and the doctor wasn't sure if the lab would culture for fungi but is going to ask.  In the meantime I have done some research on the presence of candida in the urine, and the possible link this has to prostate inflammation.

I'm also doing urine tests since yesterday. I ordered them to check for bilirubin and urobilinogen (indicating liver issues). Results of the first 2 tests were identical, showing a ph of 5 and a specific gravity of 1.030, other indicators are negative/normal. I want to see if the results change during the POIS cycle. I also have foamy urine sometimes.

Interesting stuff about candiduria and prostatitis. Thanks for your research efforts.

[certainlypois2]

I'm interested in the smoothies you prepare, did you already write about them somewhere?

Hi paradoxx,

I have mentioned them, didn't write about them.  So here is some information and a typical recipe I prepare.

I have started green smoothies because it is a great way to consume a large volume of healthy veggies, and fruits, and other healthy food, in a tasty and easy way.  I had difficulty in particular with eating some kind of green veggies, even in salad.  For example, kale is one of the best greeny leafs there is from a nutritional point of view, but I don't enjoy at all eating raw kale, and not even in a salad.  But they easily blend in my green smoothies !

Here is a typical recipe of my green smoothies: 

Organic kale    2/3 to 1 cup   ( always included !)

Organic broccoli   2/3 to 1 cup   ( Always included too! I use the stem, the leafs too when some left, not only the flower tops)

Source water   100ml / 4 oz    ( to ease the mix in the blender)

1 organic banana  ( always included, great for the taste)

1/2 organic apple

1/2 organic tomato

Organic virgin, cold pressed coconut oil   2 to 4 tablespoon, depending on your taste, but I really like it  ( to know if your oil is a good brand and has not been tempered with, it has to smell coconut - if no smell, it has been processed )

Grapefruit juice 100ml/4 oz   (  good for the liver, but caution, grapefruit juice is a potent CYP3A4 inhibitor, an important enzyme in the liver, so it interacts significantly with many prescribed and OTC drugs, and those interactions can be severe, so check out with your pharmacist or physician if you can take grapefuit or grapefruit juice, or just use another fruit juice , since this is quite specific to grapefruit juice and some rare citrus like Pomelo and Seville oranges - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_interactions for more details.  Of course, the safest alternative is to skip the juice, or replace it with source water or coconut water to work the smoothie to the desired consistency ) )

Frozen mango chunks      1/2 cup   ( this with banana add up to a great taste ) ( I use the no pesticides-no gmo Nature's Touch brand from Costco - there are virtually no organic mangos available around here)

Organic basilic    one or two leaves

Organic parsley     a little bit

Organic chia or kemp      1 or 2 oz  ( source of complete proteins, and lots of vitamins and minerals, and omega-3 too)

2 times a week, I add organic red beets, that are good for the liver... turn my green smoothie to a red smoothie, of course !


 I can also add some of what I have on hand:  some organic spinach, or some red berries, or some blueberries, or some organic green peas, or some organic carrot, or organic psweet pepper bell, and so on.

I add sometime some organic ginger, or organic cinnamon, or organic cacao powder, or else.  But never again I will add spiruline in my smoothies, for me it totally spoils the taste !  ( I take spirulina powder apart, in water ).


After nearly six months, I got used to get a result that suits my taste.  But at the start, it happened I had to adjust the final result by adding some maple syrup or organic vanilla soya drink, to make it more tasty and more enjoyable.

The taste I get has nothing to do with high sugar commercial preparations, but since I had cut refined sugar for a long time now this is very tasty to me and sweet enough.

I mix everything in the blender and usually consume half the quantity right after making it, and put the other half in a mason jar, in the fridge, for later in the day.


I do not always have the 30 mins or so to mix all the ingredients and clean the blender and everything after.  So, I have two back ups in the form of healthy organic juices:  either the Biotta Breuss ( http://biotta.ch/en/products/biotta-classic/breuss/ ), or the Suja Mighty Dozen organic greens, that I buy at Costco ( see https://www.burpy.com/costco/suja-essentials-organic-mighty-greens-juice/product-detail/1146247 ).    This way, I can have my daily dose of organic veggies and fruits, even if I have much work to do, or a family event, or anything else.

After six months, I had great benefits from this new addition to my diet.  I am not a total vegan, I eat eggs, meat, some cheese, but adding this much fruits and high quality veggies on a daily basis have been good for my health.  For example, I did not have a single cold or flu this last winter despite the harsh cold of Canada, a first in many years, and my green smoothies may be one of the reason why.

Let me know if you have any questions. Of course, anyone interested should start slowly, with only a few ingredients - my recipes have grown to  become quite elaborate, after all these months.  just 4 to 5 ingredients can do for a starter, and I use to go for half fruits-half veggies in volume, in the beginning, but I am now more leaning toward 2/3 veggies - 1/3 fruits.  Experiment !

Cheers !


( p.s.  I may re-post this on a separate thread, I think it is a good thing to promote healthy diet among the POIS sufferers community )

Do you know a non organic substitute to the juices you recommend.