What could be an antigen in semen composition?

[Macster]

Hi, Bonjour!

I am trying to understand what it is in semen that could trigger POIS symptoms (that is, what would be the antigen).

From what I understand from Quantum's explanations and Waldinger's last paper, it seems that the antigen may reside in the seminal fluid coming from the prostate.

A quick search on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen#Composition) lists the following as constituents of prostatic seminal fluid:
- acid phosphatase
- citric acid
- fibrinolysin
- prostate specific antigen (PSA, could this be it?)
- proteolytic enzymes
- zinc

searching on NIH for PSA (http://www.cancer.gov/types/prostate/psa-fact-sheet), I find that it is a "... protein produced by cells of the prostate gland"

One of my strategies this year was to ingest papain daily, which disintegrates protein (http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-69-papain.aspx?activeingredientid=69&activeingredientname=papain). The idea is that it would disintegrate the semen and possibly the antigen in it, which would result in no reaction after ejaculation.

I am not sure if this makes sense or not and would like to get some insight.

In terms of liquefying semen, it works, and it seems that my symptoms take longer to appear and do not get as strong as they used to. It's hard for me to tell if this is placebo or not as I have not ejaculated purposefully for months now.

Thank you!

[Quantum]

Hi Macster,

Very interesting hypothesis, about PSA being the possible antigen.   I hope Dr Waldinger will test PSA as the possible antigen in his current study.

There is always a small amount of PSA in the blood, and some studies have shown that it raises a bit following ejaculation  ( see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27286109, and others) .  Would this slight elevation be enough to create an auto-immune reaction ?  It is also known that PSA raises higher in certain condition like prostatitis.

Did you have success with papain in reducing your symptoms?  If so, which symptoms were relieved, and how much were they relieved ?

Thanks for sharing the results of your search about the possible antigen in prostate fluid! 

[certainlypois2]

Hi, Bonjour!

I am trying to understand what it is in semen that could trigger POIS symptoms (that is, what would be the antigen).

From what I understand from Quantum's explanations and Waldinger's last paper, it seems that the antigen may reside in the seminal fluid coming from the prostate.

A quick search on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen#Composition) lists the following as constituents of prostatic seminal fluid:
- acid phosphatase
- citric acid
- fibrinolysin
- prostate specific antigen (PSA, could this be it?)
- proteolytic enzymes
- zinc

searching on NIH for PSA (http://www.cancer.gov/types/prostate/psa-fact-sheet), I find that it is a "... protein produced by cells of the prostate gland"

One of my strategies this year was to ingest papain daily, which disintegrates protein (http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-69-papain.aspx?activeingredientid=69&activeingredientname=papain). The idea is that it would disintegrate the semen and possibly the antigen in it, which would result in no reaction after ejaculation.

I am not sure if this makes sense or not and would like to get some insight.

In terms of liquefying semen, it works, and it seems that my symptoms take longer to appear and do not get as strong as they used to. It's hard for me to tell if this is placebo or not as I have not ejaculated purposefully for months now.

Thank you!

I dont know about papain disintegrating semen, isn't papain more for digestion. I dont see how it will get to semen.

[Marcusq]

Turmeric which is used by many forums members with good results is one of the mains to reduce PSA concentrations... as well as pomegranate seed, green tea and broccoli


http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2013/12/new-study-reveals-four-nutrients-that-lower-psa-and-slow-cancer-progression/page-01

[Quantum]

Thanks for the link, Marcusq !

I for one, use turmeric and green tea in my pre-ejaculation pack.  And, another product in my pre-pack helps lowering the PSA level:  quercetin.  See a reference here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11238180 .  I remember that I have first included quercetin as a mast cell stabilizer, which is great to temper immune over-reactions, and after some months, I have discovered that it has also anti-inflammatory properties for the prostate.  Now, I have just made some search, and found this study showing it also reduces PSA  ( but, in fact, there is a direct link between less PSA and less prostate inflammation, so one could suppose that a substance that reduces prostate inflammation also reduces PSA levels). 

The role of PSA in POIS will have to be evaluated, but whatever the prostate fluid antigen is, any substance that has anti-inflammatory properties for the prostate is has some potential as a POIS relief product.

[Macster]

Hi certainlypois2,

I have been taking papain since February this year and with time it has liquefied my semen. I started trying papain after having read this: http://superfoodprofiles.com/natural-male-birth-control-papaya-seeds-contraceptive-men

Hi Marcusq,

Thanks for the share!

Hi Quantum,

I don't willingly ejaculate anymore since many months, but sometimes I still get NE. When this happens, it seems that my symptoms take longer to occur. They're usually most intense on day 3. It used to be day 1-2 for me before. I believe that this may be thanks to papain, but it is difficult to tell.

What else could be an antigen? Is PSA the most likely candidate?