Propranolol (Betablocker) reduced the intensity of my POIS by atleast 75%

[arun]

Hey all,

I've been following this forum for quite a bit. But never actually has anything to post. I've tried a lot of treatment options discussed here. But none of it helped me in any significant way. I'll list out first what I have tried.

1) Niacin - Didn't really help, sometimes made POIS worse
2) Garlic, fenugreek, etc - Wasn't of much help
3) Antihisthamines - Made POIS worse
4) Saw Palmetto and Relora - No help

I never had POIS earlier. It all started after I had a Lasik eye surgery in 2011 that caused myofascial pain syndrome in the muscles around my eyes and the stress led to fibromylagia (I really couldn't put a name on the condition I have, but fibro is the closest. But its autoimmune for sure). So as the condition got worse my POIS too got  progressively worse. Earlier it wasn't noticeable. Slowly it lingered for a day then two days. Finally, my POIS took atlaeast 10 days completely to go away. It was terrible. My problems are much different from what people in the forum here experience. Here is a list:

1) Muscle stiffness and pain increases 5-10 fold
2) Eyes cramp up, Blepharspasms (terrible condition that i have constantly) worsen
3) Sensitivity to light and screens increases 5 fold
4) Pain in prostate region
5) Feeling of sickness
6) Faster stronger heartbeats

To put it in one sentence, my normal symptoms just worsen 5-10 fold. It took me more than a week to recover from these symptoms. I hated these symptoms so much i climaxed only once in 2 months. It was tough.

I have always suspected I might have some kind of heart arrhythmia. Because I was so aware of my heart beat in many parts of my body. So, I read in one of the Blepharospasms groups I am part of that Propranolol helped some people with the eye problem. So I tried it and it didn't help much with my eyes shutting too often. And I let it be. So one day some weeks back I had an unplanned orgasm and was really upset since I had to be somewhere the next day. SO I thought let me try Propranolol because I had a feeling it was worth a try. I had nothing to lose. So, I took 10 mg Propranolol (about 5 mins about orgam) and the next day I had the best POIS days in more than 1 and half years. I tried it one more time last week and my POIS intensity has decreased by atleast 75% and it lasts only 2 days , 3 days max.

I can't tell you how relieved I am to find something that works. I wanted to share my success here so others here could talk to their doctors about this medication.

As you know Propranalol is quite a potent and dangerous medicine if not used properly. So please talk to your doctors about the drug and have him prescribe it and try it.

Note :  PROPANOLOL HYDROCHLORIDE IS CONTRAINDICATED IF YOU ARE HYPOTENSIVE OR YOU HAVE ASTHMA. DONT TAKE UNLESS YOU CONSULT WITH A DOCTOR FIRST IF YOU HAVE ANY RESPIRATORY OR NERVOUS DISEASE

Anything I can help with, please ask me.

Thanks.

Regards,
Arun.

[Quantum]

Hi Arun,

Thanks for sharing your success of finding relief for your POIS symptoms, and thanks for adding a caution note about the use of propranol ( Inderal), which apply to any other beta-blocker as well.

Propranolol, as all beta-blockers, has the properties of slowing and steadying the heartbeat  ( technically, they are class II anti-arrhythmic agents ).  As you have rapid and strong heartbeat when in POIS, it can be of help for sure, and I guess that this rapid and strong heartbeat may be linked in your case with some high blood pressure ( did you ever measure your blood pressure during a POIS episode ? How was it ? ).  You also think you have a kind of cardiac arrhythmia, that would also acccount for the relief you get from a beta-blocker.

As I have written in another thread, those who have hypotension ( low blood pressure) as a POIS symptom, like myself, should not try beta-blockers, as they can worsen the hypotension.

Another effect of beta-blocker is that they block a type of adrenaline/noradrenaline receptors ( not just in the heart tissues), so it could help somewhere else in the body if too much noradrenergic tone is caused by POIS, which may be manifested by your very tense muscle and muscles spasms ( just a hypothesis here, I cannot know if this is what happens in reality... but beta-blockers stabilizing muscles tremor, they are even considered as doping in pool and snooker ocmpetition).    I point that in order, maybe, to help screen what POIS sufferer could benefit from beta-blockers.  So, if POIS causes rapid, strong heartbeat, with higher blood pressure, and muscle spasms, that would be a sign the beta-blockers could be of help, when taken at low dose ( 10mg of propranolol is a low dose.  betablocker are very potent drugs.  If taken at 25mg or more, I guess it may do more harm than good, as pressure would get quite low )

As Arun says, you have to consult your physician before taking propranolol.  Anyway, it is a prescription only drug.

This post about beta-blockers tends to confirm that POIS is not a unique syndrome, but a family of syndrome having the same trigger ( ejaculation), and that there will not be one, unique treatment for all POIS cases.  In my case, beta-blockers would worsen my symptoms, but propranolol is clearly of help for you, Arun.

Thanks again for taking the time to share those data.

[demografx]

Thank you, Arun.

[demografx]

This post about beta-blockers tends to confirm that POIS is not a unique syndrome, but a family of syndrome having the same trigger (ejaculation), and that there will not be one, unique treatment for all POIS cases.

Excellent point.

It took me a long time reading many POISer experiences (e.g., in "b_jim" 's POIS cases) before that became clear to me.

[arun]

You are welcome, demografx. Creative username btw.

And thanks for making it more clear to everybody here Quantum. Like I said my symptoms are differnet.  I have not seen too many people with my kinds of symptoms here. I guess no two people have the exact same thing as far as POIS is concerned. Like you said betablockers will probably do more harm than good in most POIS sufferers. Especially those have hypotensive symtpoms post POIS. 

I've been dealing with a host of other problems too for the past 3-4 years. POIS is just one of them. But all the conditions I suffer from have some things in common and I think it might be common in the POIS suffering population too. If it may help I'd like to give more details on what other problems I have that might be connected.

I have ADD and anxiety. These two conditions I've seen to be common with the POIS sufferers. It might not mean too much but I'm sure its somewhere to start.

I have always had tremors and weak muscles.

There are other problems I suffer from but which I think may probably not make much sense in a POIS context. Anyway, I sensitive to lights and computer screens. I am sensitive to sounds. All these conditions get worse as the day passes. And they are constantly present. POIS makes them much much worse. Like 10 times worse. That's why I had such troubles with it.

I think the contractions that happen during an orgasm also has a big role to play. Especially since my orgasms are much more powerful than they used to be earlier. Also, my orgasm contraction are not limited to the pelvic region. Sounds crazy but my eyes and facial muscles contract a lot too during climax.

I'm very happy I stumbled upon something that helps. I wish the same for others here.

Regards,
Arun, India.

[Quantum]

Thanks for the added data, Arun.

I am sure this kind of sharing will help us, in a not so distant future, to be able to build a first "POIS subtypes chart".  This has been one of my endeavor when I fist found this forum, but the lack of clear and detailed sharing like yours made it impossible.  My ultimate goal was to try to have some predictable patterns, like, if you have such POIS subtype, niacin may not help you but such other things should be useful.  This would never be 100% accurate, but any valuable guidelines would be better than go about trying anything in no particular order and getting frustrated after many failures in a row.

So I encourage any member to share their success - and also their lack of success - with the treatments they have tried, and their usual symptoms, and what symptoms have been getting better, which ones did not, and so on  ( I may try to post a kind of "Standard Report Sheet" to help getting more valuable data... will slowly work on this....so members could copy and paste, and just fill in the details ).

[demografx]

Excellent, Quantum.

[demografx]

By year end, if you wish we can submit to Dr Komisaruk for possible study inclusion.

[b_jim]

Excellent post.
Once again it seems linked to dopamine-adrenaline family and it have a controle effect.

[POISse]

Quantum, I have seen you asked few times for some description of symtpoms/remedy of poisers in order to make a chart and try to identify some predictable patterns accoridng to pois type. I believe it's a great idea so I will start here (not sure if it is the appropriate place though):

My symptoms:
psychological: concentration (always), memory (3 to 6 days), social skills (5 to 6 days), bad mood (3 to 4 days), stress (3 to 4 days)
physical: difficulty breathing (2 days), red eyes (4 to 5 days), intense fatigue (3 to 6 days), easily fatigue at sport (2 days), insomnia (always).

What is working for me:
complement: magnesium, zinc, b complex
meds: right after O mythelase + lecithin (get me rid of 90% of my symptoms). Then taking it once/day for 3 days.
Other: abstinence, sport, fasting, meditation.

I don't know if it is precise enough because I don't have any scientific methodology.
I strongly encourage mythelase + lectithin, it is working very well for me since 6 months.

Cheers,

POISse

[Quantum]

Quantum, I have seen you asked few times for some description of symtpoms/remedy of poisers in order to make a chart and try to identify some predictable patterns accoridng to pois type. I believe it's a great idea so I will start here (not sure if it is the appropriate place though):

My symptoms:
psychological: concentration (always), memory (3 to 6 days), social skills (5 to 6 days), bad mood (3 to 4 days), stress (3 to 4 days)
physical: difficulty breathing (2 days), red eyes (4 to 5 days), intense fatigue (3 to 6 days), easily fatigue at sport (2 days), insomnia (always).

What is working for me:
complement: magnesium, zinc, b complex
meds: right after O mythelase + lecithin (get me rid of 90% of my symptoms). Then taking it once/day for 3 days.
Other: abstinence, sport, fasting, meditation.

I don't know if it is precise enough because I don't have any scientific methodology.
I strongly encourage mythelase + lectithin, it is working very well for me since 6 months.

Cheers,

POISse

Thank you very much, POISse !

First, I am very glad to hear that you have found relief for your POIS symptoms.  It is also very interesting to note that it has been working well for you for 6 months now.

There is a POIS history thread on the forum, I will find it back and copy your information there. 

Thanks again, posts like yours help me with my chart project.  I base my chart on types by effective treatment, so anyone sharing an effective way to control his symptoms is helping.  In particular, a treatment that have been effective for months.


(P.S.: ok, crossed post done at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=81.new#new )

[demografx]

...is pois due to...?

I think that's what Quantum is saying: that there are many variants of POIS.

Some POIS sufferers might have totally different symptoms and/or different effective treatments from one POISer to another -- even though the cause is the same, i.e., ejaculation.

[Laotzu1980]

Ok, I tested a Beta-blocker (Propranolol).

Once as a pre-pack together with Amitriptyline, where there was no noticeable reduction in symptoms from taking the Amitriptyline alone (which for me is about 40-50% effective). However, this time I had a terrible second day POIS, which is usually my worst day. I decided to take a Propranolol on its own to see its effect on POIS symptoms, and it pretty much removed all of my symptoms. The effects were very fast, within about 30 minutes of taking a 40mg pill. Well, I went for it, and tried to have another O while the Propranolol was working well, to see if it would reset the system and provide protection, but pretty soon after O the terrible symptoms returned.

Still, if I had not o'd, I wonder how long POIS symptoms would have disappeared for, and if taking another Propranolol would have helped if symptoms did return hours later. If POIS is terrible when I wake up tomorrow, I will take another one and see how it works.

Half life is 3-6 hours and effects are usually felt for about 3 hours. Neurologist only gave them to try as a pre-pack, so I am not sure how many one can take per day, but it is not uncommon to take 2, or sometimes even 3 per day, if needed. I imagine therefore, they are relatively safe, but it depends on your condition. I have high blood pressure, so it doesn't surprise me that it helps me personally, as it lowers heart rate and blood pressure. Please only take them under medical supervision.

Will update further, but for those who need relief in POIS, you may wish to speak to your doctor to give it a try next time. It sure beats being in POIS. At least until you find something better.
For now.

[Laotzu1980]

Propranolol, 40 mg has again almost totally removed my cognitive symptoms, 80%+, and that was for POIS within POIS. The protection lasted about 3 hours, which is roughly how long the drug is expected to work for. As soon as anxiety returned, I took another 40 mg pill and about 20 minutes after I felt better again. It lasted about 3 more hours. I won't get my hopes up as Diazepam initially gave me 5 hours of relief the first few times I tried it and that gradually became much less effective, even though I only took a 2 mg pill in emergencies, once every 2 weeks or so.

I will continue to test Propranolol over the coming days, alone as a pre-pack 1 hour before O, and testing different doses within POIS, trying to lower the dosage to 10-20 mg so I can possibly take it 4+ times per day, instead of taking the current 40 mg which only lasts 3 hours. Lowering the dose could get us through an entire day of POIS until there is a better alternative, and there may be an extended release version of the pill. It also helps reduce my blood pressure which is high, and I also have always suspected some irregularity with my heart beat which runs in my family. I read that people take up to 450 mg per day, so at the current dose of 40 mg, even 2 or 3 of those should be relatively safe, although I need to consult with the doctor to confirm this.

If Arun is still active in this forum, I would love to know his method, frequency and dosage, and if he still has success with it... He got by on only 10mg pills, so that's a good sign.

[Quantum]

Propranolol, 40 mg has again almost totally removed my cognitive symptoms, 80%+, and that was for POIS within POIS. The protection lasted about 3 hours, which is roughly how long the drug is expected to work for. As soon as anxiety returned, I took another 40 mg pill and about 20 minutes after I felt better again. It lasted about 3 more hours. I won't get my hopes up as Diazepam initially gave me 5 hours of relief the first few times I tried it and that gradually became much less effective, even though I only took a 2 mg pill in emergencies, once every 2 weeks or so.

I will continue to test Propranolol over the coming days, alone as a pre-pack 1 hour before O, and testing different doses within POIS, trying to lower the dosage to 10-20 mg so I can possibly take it 4+ times per day, instead of taking the current 40 mg which only lasts 3 hours. Lowering the dose could get us through an entire day of POIS until there is a better alternative, and there may be an extended release version of the pill. It also helps reduce my blood pressure which is high, and I also have always suspected some irregularity with my heart beat which runs in my family. I read that people take up to 450 mg per day, so at the current dose of 40 mg, even 2 or 3 of those should be relatively safe, although I need to consult with the doctor to confirm this.

If Arun is still active in this forum, I would love to know his method, frequency and dosage, and if he still has success with it... He got by on only 10mg pills, so that's a good sign.

Great, Laotzu !  Let me know in a few months if it still works for you, I will add you as a reference member, along with Arun, for #10 POIS type in my chart ( POIS Type responding to beta-blockers/propranolol)

[Laotzu1980]

You got it, Q. Thanks! 🙂 Let's see what happens...

[hurray]

Propranolol, 40 mg has again almost totally removed my cognitive symptoms, 80%+, and that was for POIS within POIS. The protection lasted about 3 hours, which is roughly how long the drug is expected to work for. As soon as anxiety returned, I took another 40 mg pill and about 20 minutes after I felt better again. It lasted about 3 more hours. I won't get my hopes up as Diazepam initially gave me 5 hours of relief the first few times I tried it and that gradually became much less effective, even though I only took a 2 mg pill in emergencies, once every 2 weeks or so.

I will continue to test Propranolol over the coming days, alone as a pre-pack 1 hour before O, and testing different doses within POIS, trying to lower the dosage to 10-20 mg so I can possibly take it 4+ times per day, instead of taking the current 40 mg which only lasts 3 hours. Lowering the dose could get us through an entire day of POIS until there is a better alternative, and there may be an extended release version of the pill. It also helps reduce my blood pressure which is high, and I also have always suspected some irregularity with my heart beat which runs in my family. I read that people take up to 450 mg per day, so at the current dose of 40 mg, even 2 or 3 of those should be relatively safe, although I need to consult with the doctor to confirm this.

If Arun is still active in this forum, I would love to know his method, frequency and dosage, and if he still has success with it... He got by on only 10mg pills, so that's a good sign.

That's good news  Does it handle social anxiety as well as general anxiety? Hope it keeps on working for you!

[Laotzu1980]

Thanks H. The social (and general) anxiety I experience within POIS is normally unbearable, and the Propranolol wiped out those symptoms in the first few tests. I was able to go out, socialise, handle large crowds without any issues at all. I read that people are given these before making speeches, and stressful situations, as they block the release of stress hormones.
Will continue to test, and report back.

[Laotzu1980]

Another update with Propranolol.
It seems to do nothing to prevent POIS when I take it before, but is still effective during POIS.

This time I took 20 mg 1 hour before O, and another 20 mg 15 minutes before O. I knew immediately after the O that something felt off and it was not effective. When I woke up, POIS was present.

However, during POIS, it still seems to be effective. I can function well enough when I take a 40 mg tablet (20 mg was not enough yesterday, which was first day of POIS). The normal starting dose for adults from memory is 80 mg.
The extreme anxiety takes about 30-40 minutes to disappear for me, after taking a 40mg pill.

Will continue updating...

[Disaster]

I will add to this topic that if someone has low blood pressure so they can not take a beta blocker then they can try Ivabradine, sold under the brand Corlanor in America. It lowers heart rate but does not usually lower blood pressure