Suggestions

[Ccconfucius]

there is  way to share the funding cost right like using paypal.
i am interested in sharing the cost if more people share it will definately be cheaper.

[Daveman]

there is  way to share the funding cost right like using paypal.
i am interested in sharing the cost if more people share it will definately be cheaper.

Thanks CC, Demo and I  know that you are truly dedicated to the POIS effort. Your efforts here are already as good as money. However, I don't think the need for "cash" can be avoided.

This first operation was done through PayPal. It works pretty well. But for both Demo and I it opened a whole new concern. It's one thing to receive some money to do a specific thing between friends, it's another to begin getting a bunch of people involved and larger quantities of money ( even though still not huge quantities). At a minimum you have to start thinking about basic accounting, which really should be a neutral party, and then potential legal matters start to enter in and tax implications etc.

So while I think they are themes that can be easily tackled, we need to put a little thought into it. Might it even be better to form a non-profit or maybe even some other form of business entity?

I'm hoping that, first of all, costs will be at a minimum, and that second of all, we may potentially be able to do the first things "among friends" which will put us in the postion of being independant financially (due to low cash needs and basic lower volume income generators).

Actually I think that we will have to go towards a formal business model at some point. So perhaps it may be smarter to do it from the begining.... Don't know yet.

[Willem]

Hi Daveman,

I'm currently on the board for a U.S. 501(c)(3) non-profit I started with a fellow history aficionado.  We thought it would help in our fundraising efforts and make us more legitimate (also would make donations tax deductible).  It's helped in some ways, but you really have to actively fund-raise or apply for grants, as the IRS wants them to have a broad donation base:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501%28c%29
"A public charity, identified by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as "not a private foundation," normally receives a substantial part of its income, directly or indirectly, from the general public or from the government. The public support must be fairly broad, not limited to a few individuals or families. "

Being international in nature there's the question of where to incorporate.  Seems to me that if the cash flows are less than $1K per year, it would be a lot of unnecessary headache to incorporate.  Hopefully our community will get big enough to warrant the change though!

[Daveman]

Thanks Willem. I wonder if it might just be simpler to create a simple business format. Even if not non-profit. It wouldn't be necesary I don't think to generate profit!

That could limit our income sources....

Are donations allowed in regular business "for profit"?

It seems that we should be bale to have a business where we offer services, and the people pay when they can or donate if they can?

Isn't a non-profit costly, both in creation and in support (legal, accounting etc.)

[Willem]

The 501(c)(3) is a bit of a pain to set up (filing paper work and getting approval), but running it is not so bad.  They require a board of directors, quarterly meetings, and I believe there's a new requirement for annual filing with the IRS. 

At least in the U.S., I'm attending seminars on new business creation, and even if we set up an LLC (the simplest, lowest cost format) for our group, you have to pay a state tax that varies, but it's about $600 a year California.

I guess the main question is, "What are we trying to achieve by incorporating?"  The only concern I have is if an individual owns the domain, and then something happens to that individual, will the community live on (i.e. will another admin have rights to pay the bills and keep things going?).  Just my two cents...
 

[Daveman]

OK, we'll have to see which way to go.

As you say, I think the main reason for incorporating, how ever it may be, is to provide some sort of order, stability and accountability. Perhaps basic limited liability protection as well, we ARE dealing with medical information...

Jeez, more than a couple of bucks required and the whole thing gets complicated.

[sameer7777]

what about facebook , we should make a page there , and joined togethere the memebers of pois and SE what you guys say....

[Vincent M]

This could be a good idea to get the word out actually. I'll join such a group if someone wants to make one.

[Ccconfucius]

we are getting members , that i dont think are pois sufferer and putting sales website on their website profile, this guy is an example "Gebauer" is that okay.

[emi_b]

Yes there are new memers who don't look like real persons.

I think that they are some sort of viruses or anything else, wich might infected the forum.
They look as if they are automaticaly generated: a random country, a picture, a website, etc.
Also there appeared some post (spam) on the forum these days from these members:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=121.0 (look at the poster's info: age 2002 !?  )
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=120.0

Go to the member list and sort them by website, I think almost all members with website are those about we've talked about.

[this discussion may fit better in technical problems topic]

[Daveman]

Yes, emi_b....

These are SPAMMERS. Apparantly we are on some list somewhere (looks like russia or somewhere in that area).
It takes me about an hour to clean up now in the morning, getting rid of the riff-raff, which is complicating advances in more important areas.

I need to automated filters and URL blocking etc, so I don't have to do it all by hand.

Sigh. It's complicated enough!!
.... and somewhere in there I have to find time to actually "work".

[emi_b]

I have an ideea.

I think about having a wiki on this website.
It can help us create a more solid "documentation" for POIS: researches etc. in one place that can be better organised.
Working with BBCode is sometimes painfull, and the result is not what you would espect all times.
It is a suggestion. What do you think

[Willem]

I think about having a wiki on this website.

I think a wiki's a fabulous idea, but would be pretty complicated.  I used to manage a public wiki (Confluence, donated free-of-charge by Atlassian because we were a non-profit) and if you can get the user permissions to cross between the wiki and the forum it might be a snap.  Might be a package out there offering this type of integration.  Otherwise, it would be tough having dual sign-ins etc. 

Google sites is pretty good and there's already a POIS page out there.  I wonder if more of us can't get edit access on that Google Site?  Just throwing out ideas...

[Willem]

Yes, emi_b....

These are SPAMMERS. Apparantly we are on some list somewhere (looks like russia or somewhere in that area).
It takes me about an hour to clean up now in the morning, getting rid of the riff-raff, which is complicating advances in more important areas.

I need to automated filters and URL blocking etc, so I don't have to do it all by hand.

Sigh. It's complicated enough!!
.... and somewhere in there I have to find time to actually "work".

Thanks for keeping things clean Daveman!  I swear they have automated tools that look for forums, wikis etc. that are powered by known providers (like SMF) and then they unleash the mechanical turks (spammers).  I appreciate you fighting the good fight. 

[Daveman]

I'd really like to find a way to turn everything around and make them swallow the shit that they feed us.

[Vincent M]

yeah we should get hackers on our side and find out where the spam is coming from and spam them with POIS info lol.

but hey at least they're giving our site more traffic.

[Daveman]

I've got a suggestion for y'all.

We're going to start to be visited by researchers, if not already. It would be very useful to us if we had our information organised so that these researchers can find things easily wihout having to look all over the place.

CCconfusious, emi_b and others have been making an effort at trying to open certain topics which are meant to accumulate relevant information, like user profiles, successfull procedures etc. See the following:

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=81.0
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=73.0
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=74.0
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=75.0

Just thesealone, if we used them and filled them with information would be very useful for these outside researcher, both to gain a better understanding of our plight and what seems to work, and what, not.

I haven't been very punctual either, but will make an effort to help with ths organization.

We are coming up on an important time. There's another important quantum leap on the horizon, so if we all put the shoulder to it, we'll come through very nicely.

Thanks.

[Daveman]

We're in need of a work group. We have interesting stuff poping up in the forums, that sort of get lost, the databases need updating, things need organizing, we need to beat off SPAMMERs etc. etc.

Perhaps where money is hard to part with, a little time and dedication could cost less.

We have a couple of helpers (extremely appreciated) but there are still areas that need attention. I could produce a sort of list of responsibility areas perhaps and we could see what kind of response we could muster among our wonderful group here.

[Ccconfucius]

making a list sounds good, you are eventually going to get overwhelmed, so you will need help. have you thought of who will become moderator.

[Daveman]

making a list sounds good, you are eventually going to get overwhelmed, so you will need help. have you thought of who will become moderator.

There'll probably be more than one. It will obviously depend on the candidates too, because it requires time and dedication.

You are certainly a potential candidate, having shown self initiative, concern and dedication of time.

I'd like to see how it goes on making the list of tasks and defining responsibility areas. Those will define what "powers" each will need.