Author Topic: Infectious Causes and Treatments  (Read 3779 times)

eur79m

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Infectious Causes and Treatments
« on: February 03, 2015, 01:47:53 PM »
I opened this thread, since I am currently in pursuit of a potential infectious cause for my POIS symptoms.

Some of my story can be found here:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1205.0

I will post any updates to my antibiotics regimen and PCR results in this new thread.

Cheers

demografx

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2015, 02:08:45 PM »
Thanks, eur79m.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

eur79m

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 08:33:14 AM »
Just a quick update concerning my PCR results concerning a potential bacterial infection. I had an ejaculate sample tested for both chlamydia trachomatis and chlamydia pneumonia, both came back negative. Common blood antibody tests for chlamydia pneumonia also indicate no currently active infection, only a prior infection, which is common for 80% of the population. My current combined antibiotic regimen is based on a chlmaydia pneumonia lymphocyte transformation test (LTT), the diagnostic value of which is rather unclear. Maybe it is detecting a cross reaction to a related antibody (neither Chl. trachomatis nor pneumonia)? I have no idea, back to square one...

The problem with any lab test is that the results are all probabilistic, I thus only know that both my best hypotheses (lyme borreliosis, chlamydia pneumonia) both seem highly unlikely. I could go on testing different specimens at different labs, which is however prohibitively expensive, and the probability of being able to confirm either hypothesis is very slim, considering prior test results.

The only thing that I can state for sure is that I feel substantially better on the combined antibiotic regimen. No more foggy head etc, minor to none post-ejaculatory symptoms, my liver test values (SGPT, ALT) are almost back to the normal range, and the pain in my liver and right groin seems to be slowly fading away. Since there was intermittent worsening, including fever, (minor herxheimer reaction?) I would exclude the anti-inflammatory effect of the antibiotics a sole cause for the observed improvement with high probability.

I will probably continue the antibiotics treatment for as long as I can bear it (till now only minor side effects) but I am not the kind of guy who likes to treat something without a proper diagnosis, which is very frustrating.

Going less Crazy

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 11:15:05 PM »
Antibiotics also lower white blood cell count which may be a factor in POIS
My POIS managed with modified Paleo Diet (@ diet that 100% manages my pois)Believe my POIS stems from inflammation in the gut. O and stimulation = neuro POIS from inflammation from the gut.

I take <1/4 drop of a 10mg liquid Zyrtec gelcap every night and it has vastly improved my sleep and energy.

eur79m

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2015, 03:39:15 AM »
Antibiotics also lower white blood cell count which may be a factor in POIS

My white blood cell count is in the normal range towards the upper bound.

eur79m

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 02:06:04 PM »
I am posting to give you an update on my investigation concerning a potential infectious cause.

I followed the hard core antibiotics regime that I described previously from Dec 2014 to May 2015. During this time my well-being improved substantially, I was able to go running every second day, and had no more pain in liver and right inguinal area. While it did get substantially better, I did not get 'cured' and the last three months of the antibiotics regimen I did not register further improvements. The antibiotics regimen was very intensive and thus also affecting my body, digestion, some blood markers negatively, and this was not a long-term solution. I thus stopped the antibiotics regimen completely mid-May of this year. During the following month my liver test values (ALT) were in the normal range for the first time in five years! But things started to deteriorate quickly, POIS symptoms started to set in within days after discontinuation of the antibiotics. My general health started to decline again, I had to give up sports again and pain in my liver and right inguinal area appeared again.

My GP referred me to another infectiologist who ruled out any kind of chronic infection based on just another blood test, the standard ones that had been done already several times before. I was denied further diagnostics and treatment, even so antibiotic treatment was proven to be effective. In mid September my health had again deteriorated so far that I could not take it any more. I had not tested penicillin yet and wanted to try it because it has little side-effects, is cheap, and can be potentially taken for the long-term. I was initially again forced to obtain Amoxicillin 3000mg/day via sources outside of my health care system. There was no immediate improvement detectable, rather increased sweating at night, increased burning in my right inguinal area, prostate pain, and extreme fatigue. However, this receded eventually and I started to feel fitter in the mornings, which is the worst time of day in untreated condition. After one month I finally obtained 3M U.I./day penicillin from my GP, who is supporting me in spite of the negative feedback from the infectiologist. I am now on penicillin since one month, increasing the dosage to 4.5M U.I/day. During the last two weeks I was able to take up running again, my general state of health slowly improving. Pain in my liver and right inguinal area is almost gone, only some occasional burning. This antibiotics regimen has no side effects for me and barely affects my digestion. I dont believe that this will be my 'cure' but just with penicillin I regain >80% of my health/life again and this is a regimen I might be able to continue forever. Yesterday I had three ejaculations, today I woke up with a headache that vanished after half an hour and I felt energetic. I was even able to go for a run. For me, antibiotics are a testable (blood test) and reproducible antagonist to whatever causes my POIS.

Most likely other cases have other causes, and antibiotics should not be taken lightly, especially having no diagnosis. However, if any of you ever come to a point where you cant take it any more and consider life changing choices like animus and myself, I urge you to find a doc who is willing to test an antibiotic regimen first. It does not have to be a combined hard core therapy, I had good results with either 200mg Minocyclin or 4.5M U.I. penicilin (phenoxymethylpenicillin), NOT to be combined! The 'stuffed head' feeling vanished with Minocyclin within 48h. In my case penicillin has almost no side effects, Minocyclin caused some nausea and you cannot go out in the sun. If you try anything in this direction and it gets worse for some weeks, especially night sweats, swollen lymph nodes etc, that is a good sign. Dont do anything without proper medical supervision and regular check-ups!

If anybody here ever tries either antibiotic regimens or the opposite, immune suppression, please let me know!

eur79m

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2016, 06:45:58 PM »
A further update on my 'POIS' condition that I am ever more convinced is caused by a chronic bacterial infection in my case.

I am still being denied any direct diagnostics that could potentially validate my chronic bacterial infection theory, and I am still being told by infectiologists that a chronic bacterial infection would be 'extremely unlikely' or even impossible. Clinical evidence however strongly supports the theory and so far there has not been ONE piece of evidence that would be inconsistent with a bacterial vector as causative agent. I thus continue to rely on research relating to the domains of lyme borreliosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, and chlamydia pneumonia, since the established symptoms and treatments for these cases seem to be most closely related to my situation... except for the POIS aspect of my condition.

As detailed previously I was on a regimen of oral Penicillin for several months that had almost no side effects and improved my condition substantially. However, oral Penicillin has a very short half-time in your body and most of it is excreted rapidly. Thus, very high doses have to be taken several times a day and still the effective serum Penicillin level will be fluctuating wildly. In a previous post I probably described that after my first surgery I was completely symptom free for 48h post-surgery, until the first ejaculation, while not being on any medication. During surgery I did receive Penicillin IV which could be the cause for the temporary remission, I was however denied my requests to test this hypothesis. During my initial foray into combined antibiotic regimens as recommended for lyme borreliosis, I did receive one month of daily ceftriaxon IV, which should be more effective than basic penicillin. It did show some positive effects but no complete remission and the IV treatment was unsustainable long term.

I did however come across two old (1990s) case reports of borreliosis patients that did not respond to prior antibiotic regimens but were successfully treated with long term Penicillin G (intra muscular). Penicillin G (im) is absorbed slowly by your body and thus long term (weeks) sustained (low) serum levels can be achieved. In borreliosis literature it is hypothesized that a sustained (>72h) Penicillin level could be effective against spirochetes (the class of bacteria causing lyme borreliosis). I found further case reports of other patients online, that often had not received a proven diagnosis but instead classified as CFS or lyme borreliosis based on symptoms, who were (more or less successfuly) following long term Penicillin G (im) regimens. I thus set out to test Penicillin G (im) over xmas as a potential long-term treatment.

Even so Penicillin G is the oldest antibiotic, well understood, easy to produce and patent free, there are actually supply issues in several European countries. There are generally two different kinds of packaging, either as a pre-mixed solution including the analgesic Lidocain, which makes the injection less painful, or as a dry powder that has to be mixed with a solvent prior to injection. In Germany Pendysin is the powdered version but currently not available, only the pre-mixed forumlation Tardocillin could be obtained. In Switzerland no Penicillin G (im) formulation is approved for sale and has to be imported. In France it is called Extencillin, I am not sure about format and availablity. In Spain there is Benzetacil as powder and solvent. In the U.S. there is Bicillin-LA as the pre-mixed version with an analgesic, as far as I know it is however prohibitively expensive.

Initially I obtained 6 shots of Tardocillin 1.2M in Germany and received dorso gluteal i.m. injections every second day over xmas. Until the day of the first injection I was still taking oral Penicillin V but the improvement of my condition after the second injection was substantial. The injections themselves were not painful at all, due to the analgesic but the day after an injection I could barely walk due to pain. My general health status was however better than any day during the last five years! I decided to obtain Benzetacil 2.4M from Spain, where 100 packages can be obtained for as low as 180EUR. I had a prescription from another European country and had somebody buy 100 injections locally in Spain and post them in a standard package to another EU country. All-in I paid 300EUR for 100 injections incl shipment. According to Burrascano, Board Member of the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, a treatment plan for lyme borreliosis with Penicillin G (im) would consist of 3-4x weekly 1.2M injections. Since every injection is a risk and I determined over xmas that I would not be able to continue i.m. injections every second day long-term, I settled on 2.4M Benzetacil twice a week. The injection is rather painful but the following day I have less pain than after the pre-mixed Tardocillin, which contained an analgesic. This has been confirmed by other patients online. I believe the pain difference the following day to be due to the speed with which the injection has been given. Due to the analgesic contained in Tardocillin the injection is completely painless and was performed within <2min. With Benzetacil the injection takes me more than 6min due to pain, which probably puts less strain on the muscle that has to absorb the injection. I had the first injection performed by my doctor, the second injection I gave myself under doctor supervision. It is not easy but possible, and I have now been performing the ventro gluteal i.m. injection of 2.4M (6-8ml) Penicillin G for 1.5 months myself, without any outside help.

Mid January 2016 I discontinued oral Penicillin V that I had been taking again after I finished the Tardocillin injections. Within two weeks my health worsened substantially, I had severe headaches and all general POIS symptoms. After one ejaculation I developed a 38.4C fever, shivering, like a hard-core flu within minutes. I could not eat, was almost too weak to walk and could not sleep the whole night due to fever, sweating, headaches and shivers/chills. The next day the hard-core flu symptoms receded and I was just left in the usual POIS state. This all changed when the Benzetazil package from Spain arrived. Since beginning of February 2016 I have now been giving myself 2.4M Penicillin G (im) shots twice a week and my health improvement is substantial. No more headaches, no 'foggy head', only minor exhaustion post ejaculation for one day. This has not come about from one day to the next, instead after the first injections some symptoms even worsened, with substantial night sweats and a different kind of headache. Now I however feel to be on a long term track of recovery... whatever it is that is causing my POIS, Lyme Borreliosis or anything else, Penicillin G (im) does counteract it and keeps it in check. I am still far from complete remission, if that can be ever achieved, but >80% improvement in symptoms and well being, continuously, is worth a lot, and it only seems to be getting better. I can start living again...

Even so nobody else on this forum seems to suspect a chronic bacterial infection as the causative POIS agent as I believe it to be in my case, I post my experience here to make it available to anybody who could potentially profit from it. I am extremely grateful for other case reports that I have found on other forums and blogs from others who have been suffering of similar symptoms, with varying 'diagnoses' (CFS, lyme, etc), and the often experimental treatments they described. Without them I would not have come up with this course of treatment, not known where to procure the antibiotics, and not dared to give myself regular i.m. injections. I thus hope that my experience be of help for others.

Going less Crazy

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2016, 02:53:01 AM »
That's great if it's helping you.  I would only go this route if i find out you completely stopped taking antibiotics and than you were POIS free.  Otherwise, I believe the anti pois feeling you have to be a cause of the medication, perhaps screwing with your immune system so POIS is lessened.  I don't see how Lyme or anything can react and cause POIS but than bounce back once you take meds and than POIS is lessened.  Just doesn't make sense from what I understand.  Infections shouldn't react to orgasms.

Bare with me im on my phone so this response is just what I took from a quick full look at your post.

So until you stop taking antibiotics and are POIS free than I would take your post with more seriousness.  For now I will stick to my diet.  Antibiotics can really screw with you.  I honeatly cant take them.  Feels like im  taking a stimulant, but im a highly sensitive person especially to caffeine. 

Tho I've always wondered if my food intolerances were a result of some infection, but I highly doubt it
  Did you have a rash or fever or pain or other flu like feelings before POIS? I didnt.

GL on your POIS journey.
My POIS managed with modified Paleo Diet (@ diet that 100% manages my pois)Believe my POIS stems from inflammation in the gut. O and stimulation = neuro POIS from inflammation from the gut.

I take <1/4 drop of a 10mg liquid Zyrtec gelcap every night and it has vastly improved my sleep and energy.

berlin1984

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2020, 01:44:34 PM »
hi eur79m,
It's some years later now and I've seen several threads by now that suggest a combination of chronic infection (possibly combined with genetics or gut disbiosis).
What's your health state now in 2020?
thank you
Please vote on: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3386.0
(There's real science behind it, not Astrology..)

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hapl

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Re: Infectious Causes and Treatments
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2020, 12:39:49 PM »
Also, with some of the Covid research showing that some drugs have antiviral effects as well. I improved whenever I took Zithro, but then only up to a point. When I stopped Zithro, symptoms returned. Doctors told me it was just the anti-inflammatory effect of Zithro and couldn't be related to any bacterial infection. But now hearing that Zithro, Ivermectin, etc - might all have significant antiviral effects, it makes me question what I was told for years about antibiotics. (Both Zithro and Doxy helped me, but both of them stopped working after awhile).