My journey from despondency to freedom.

[Blake]

Hello everyone! 
I'm came here today with the intention to help as many people as possible and to share my story of how pois has affected my life and what measures I have taken to find relief. 

For starters I'm unsure of how long I've suffered from this illness, I suppose it has gradually gotten worse as time passed and with a few incidence possibly hastening the decent.  For me these feelings were normal.  Depression, irritability and fatigue constituted my usual state. 

That being said I went through a severely stressful event in my life which triggered many health issues the first of which was sibo or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.  So at this point my digestion was compromised.  I recently came to know that often times one with sibo doesn't absorb iron or b12.  At this point my health gradually got worse even tho I was eating healthy and exercising. 

So after going porn free and discovering nofap I finally realized that ejaculation was triggering many of these issues.  Brain fog, unrelenting all encompassing fatigue, despondency, burning eyes, irritability Ect were some of the issues.  I looked into tantra Ect and at some point people gave this situation a name pois. 

So the experimentations began.  High dose magnesium glycinAte (800-1000mg) helps tremendously but was not the answer.  Zinc 50mg daily helps a lot but not the answer.  Then I found niacin and niacinamide which both help but still not the answer. 

I noticed some people find relief with niacin and others with dopamine pathways.  So I began looking for the reason for this and how they were connected.  I heard someone here say that niacin "mops up" adrenaline.  So I thought for some time that I had adrenal fatigue but all the AF treatments were fruitless. 

Bottom line here's what finally worked for me.  Iron.  Research "iron and catecholamines".  Turns out one with low iron has 2/3 times the adrenaline in there blood.  And the clearance
 of adrenaline and catacholemines takes 3/4 times as long.  So the niacin helps clear some of this adrenaline and that's why I think it helps. The high catecholamines cause a multitude of problems.  So what I've been doing is taking ferochel iron chelate 100 mg with 1000mg vitamin c every other night.  I also try to live a healthy life style, plenty of sleep, amino acids, paleo with a focus on saltwater fish dha and greens.  I do a shake with four egg yolks, natural whey, ashwhaganda, lecithin, banana  and coconut water.  I keep refined sugar low as possible.  And now that I'm taking iron tyrosine is helpful where before it made me edgy. P5p is a staple as is vitamin e especially after ejaculation.

I'm currently aiming to have my serum ferritin from 75-125.  Also when iron is low your D1 and D2 receptors are greatly down reguLAted as you have so much circulating in the blood I think this is why I was edgy and why dopamine booster made me more edgy. 

Another plus.  For over two years when after ejaculating my pc muscle would cramp up terribly bad for that and the next day.  After a week of iron this stopped.  Turns out iron deficiency causes muscle spasms and cramps. Perhaps this is why my eyelid was quivering for so long and doesn't now.  Also ejaculation used to whipe me out and I felt high probably because orgasm causes an adrenaline rush when I already have high serum adrenaline and low clearance speed.  Now when I ejaculate I feel refreshed and clear headed and don't get antisocial for 3/4 days, however I still try not to masturbate or ejaculate too often since I feel more in the zone when charged up with a full tank. 

So It began with sibo stopping absorption of iron and b12.  I made things worse by taking zinc because while I needed zinc and it initially helped zinc competes with iron for absorption. 

I'm sorry for the disorganized and long winded post especially being new to the forum but after finally finding relief and answers I wanted to share with the hope that I could help someone for if only one person reads this and gets relief I'll be happy. 

I'll try to watch this post incase anyone has any questions or if anything needs cleared up.  In closing a serum ferritin test is 50$ at a walk in place in my town no doctor or prescription needed.  It might be worth checking out, it was for me. 

[Quantum]

Hi Blake, and thanks for this interesting input.

How low was your ferritin before starting iron supplementation ?   Did you have other tests done, and were you in the anemia range ?


I am glad you fund relief for your POIS.   

A healthier diet has also be proven useful for many members, including myself.

When I'll have time, I may add a new type of POIS in my POIS type chart, an anemia-related type of POIS.   

[Observer]

Hello Blake. Your theory is very interesting and it seems to have been discussed here before.

Look at this quote, "Accordingly, they decided to use high doses of niacin, another natural methyl acceptor, to reduce the conversion rate of noradrenaline to adrenaline and then to adrenochrome. Double-blind controlled experiments conducted on acute schizophrenics with high doses of niacin (usually 3 to 6 g daily) were very successful, outperforming the then conventional treatments and reducing suicide rates.26 Niacin can lower the body's production of adrenochrome and its derivatives."-Dr. Abram Hoffer, MD, FRCP (C) and Dr. Harold D. Foster, PhD, Feel Better, Live Longer with Vitamin B-3

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=508.0

I commented in fact on that one, however, in this case your additional details make even more sense. You know, I always get digestive issues (probably because of an inflamatory response in the gut) after Orgasm - (Even if I take niacin, that's the only issue that remains there 100%)-

I have one question then, what did you do in order to clear your gut issues and especially with sibo? Is taking Iron Chelate enough to stop POIS from occurring or should you combine it with better iron absorption by restoring your gut - I know because of my GF that Vitamin C enormously help with iron absorption - ? And now, the thing is, I don't have anemia. Last time I took a blood analysis I didn't have anemia, and I don't think I have anemia right now - Am I missing something?

Thank you for your input. We'll be waiting your response.

Best Regards.

[Blake]

    The symptoms of iron deficiency occur before progressing to full blown anemia and many doctors will assume that since your not anemic your fine but this isnt the case.  Many people near the "acceptable"range of ferritin stores (50) suffer from the many deficiency symptoms.  Personally im shooting for 75-125 ferritin levels. 

After searching for "iron and catacholemines" and "iron and dopamine" and reading the journals I knew i was onto something.  I knew i had slow adrenal clearance for example if i were to argue with someone i would feel my adrenaline ramp up and then I could feel it stay elevated for many hours.  So i started iron supplementation before getting a test and while this has worked i wish i had gotten my levels tested before hand but i just didnt have the money since the pois had me so unproductive.  I do plan on getting a test next week.   Ill report back at that point.  Also just so everyone knows ive been on iron for 54 days and continue to improve in all areas, mood, energy, sleep, patience you name it.  Im more social and energetic now that im not always bordering on fight or flight mode. 

Many things have helped, niacin, niacinamide, raw garlic, p5p, methylb12, magnesium, zinc and after an ejaculation i do a little extra vitamin e, p5p, garlic, zinc and niacin for good measure and plan on starting a daily grassfed undefatted beef liver supplement but i trully believe that for me personally iron was the main problem.  The deficiency seemed to slowly and gradually get worse over the course of about 8 years.
 Anyone who has digestive issues and/or takes stomach pills or antacids are compromising their absorbtion of iron, magnesium and many other nutrients and minerals and are at higher risk.  And the guys taking a lot of zinc are possibly at risk since zinc and iron compete for absorbtion. 

My symptoms were brain fog, totall fatigue, burning eyes, anxiety, irritability, depression, weakness, didnt want to leave the house, and cramped pelvic floor.  Now I only feel a very slight flunctuation in my dopamine on days 2 and 3 afterwords which is normal and im still improving so who knows. 

As far as the sibo and possible candida are concerned thats a tough nut to crack,  I eat a grainfree Paleo diet low in sugar.  Also I chop up a tablespoon of raw garlic and shoot it down with some kefir as i hope this will kill any excess candida, the only problem with this is garlic makes me hornier than a jack rabbit on fertility meds..but it does make me feel more vigorous in general also. 

I hope this helps and is comprehendable, ive been writing these posts on a phone which is kinda tough for me.  Feel free to ask me any questions.  Im happy to help as i know what its like to live with pois. 

[Going less Crazy]

Not to keep sounding biased here in opinion... But, low iron is common in celiac disease (many take iron supplements).  That and the grain free diet can be helping you.  Have you tested for celiac.?

That being said, I'm thinking about testing an iron supplement.

[b_jim]

Agree with Blake, I have seen some Poisers with low iron levels and sometimes improvements with iron supplements.
But it doesn't match with me.
I have good levels of iron and surprising levels of blood cells, sometimes above the max limit.
But I have chronic low magnesium level and I take supplement everyday.

[Nas]

Hey Quantum,
So what defines an anemia related POIS ?
I had low Iron before in my past mostly due to bad nutrition, but can POIS be related to it ?
I don't remember the last time I tested my Iron levels but they were pretty normal I think. 

[Observer]

Blake, On a personal level, I like your theory for many reasons. One of them is that you seem to get relief from garlic and niacine, another one is because of your symptoms (they match my POIS symptoms as well). I also noticed that you got small POIS symptoms with other situations (getting mad at someone, extremely stressful situations etc )that also affect me. Additionally you get digestive /gut problems (which I think it's a common feature for us, POISers, even if we don't have the same "sub-type" of POIS).

This sounds feasible, but I have another question. If low ferritin or iron levels are behind this inability to clear in a quick way these sudden surges of adrenaline experienced by our bodies, why other people that have anemia and low ferritin levels don't get POIS and only we do?

I would like to read your explanation to this question-

Best Regards,

[Quantum]

Hey Quantum,
So what defines an anemia related POIS ?
I had low Iron before in my past mostly due to bad nutrition, but can POIS be related to it ?
I don't remember the last time I tested my Iron levels but they were pretty normal I think.

Hi Nas,

It is just a way to try to discern between type of POIS, so this would define as a POIS where symptoms improve and even disappears when a low level of iron/hemglobine/ferritine is brought back to average to above average level, just like what seems to be the case with Blake.

But take note that it is not the only thing Blake has done.  He has improve his diet, add a few other supplements, and so on. 

So, this kind of "classification" I do is just a way to try and discern common points or common patterns among all the POIS cases.

[Going less Crazy]

Managed to get my hands on an iron supplement because it's a big possibility I have celiac.  Here's what I noticed:

Gut felt a little "hot"

What I felt to be a noticeable increase in blood pressure

Increase in sweat

Slight increase in anxiety

Metallic taste in my mouth

Insomnia

So I dont think I have a problem with low iron and will discontinue use.  Didn't hurt to try though.

[Blake]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to stop in and leave an update. 

Like I said before I really wish i would have been able to test my serum feritin level before taking any Iron supplements.  I just wasnt able to.  After one week of supplementing with 75mg ferrochel iron chelate with 1000 mg vitamin c complex at bedtime  I improved tremendously.  I continued supplementing like this because I was worried that if I stopped the symptoms and suffering would return.  SO after 60 days of this regimen I went to a local walk in lab and got my ferritin tested.  This costed 31.00$.  My level came back at 250 with the range going up to 300.  I was surprised it was that high. 

After doing some research I came to the conclusion that my test could have been affected by the previous nights supplementation, I took 50mg before bed and the next morning got tested.  Now it has been a week with no supplemental iron and im doin very well despite an ejaculation.  Im going to retest next weekend after two weeks of zero iron and report back. 

My advice is to get checked first before supplementing.  If it turns out you are low supplement for a few weeks and then get retested.  Then you will see how fast your improving.  Also you may be able to determine the optimum level for you personally.  I say this because iron levels can be too high which isnt good either.  Personally I think 75 is a good level for ferritin in men.

Agree with Blake, I have seen some Poisers with low iron levels and sometimes improvements with iron supplements.
But it doesn't match with me.
I have good levels of iron and surprising levels of blood cells, sometimes above the max limit.
But I have chronic low magnesium level and I take supplement everyday.

have you tried magnesium oil?  Its supposed to absorb better topically than pills do in the digestive systom.  Dr Mark Sircus is very knowledgeable about magnesium and is on youtube, just food for thought.

Blake, On a personal level, I like your theory for many reasons. One of them is that you seem to get relief from garlic and niacine, another one is because of your symptoms (they match my POIS symptoms as well). I also noticed that you got small POIS symptoms with other situations (getting mad at someone, extremely stressful situations etc )that also affect me. Additionally you get digestive /gut problems (which I think it's a common feature for us, POISers, even if we don't have the same "sub-type" of POIS).

This sounds feasible, but I have another question. If low ferritin or iron levels are behind this inability to clear in a quick way these sudden surges of adrenaline experienced by our bodies, why other people that have anemia and low ferritin levels don't get POIS and only we do?

I would like to read your explanation to this question-

Best Regards,

I dont have a definite answer for that.  Perhaps some do.  I have noticed that the internet/youtube is overflowing with talk of 'adrenal fatigue' and 'chronic fatigue' but its now coming out that much of this is low ferritin.  I had symptoms matching very closely to adrenal fatigue but the adrenal fatigue protocals did absolutly nothing.  It also seems to me that different people respond to things very differently.  One guy may get sleepy where another gets anxiety, ive noticed that even vitamins and food affect people differently.  I think when you do find whats wrong in your one particular case itll be like 'BINGO!' thats what i needed!  Where as other things help but not so drastically. 

Not to keep sounding biased here in opinion... But, low iron is common in celiac disease (many take iron supplements).  That and the grain free diet can be helping you.  Have you tested for celiac.?

That being said, I'm thinking about testing an iron supplement.

No I never went to a MD and got tested I tested my self.  I ate no wheat for awhile then added wheat back in and noticed issues.  I quite other grains for a different reason.  I currently eat Paleo no white potatoes with an emphasis on seafood/high dha.  Having stable blood sugar throughout the day is amazing on its own.  Its funny how white potatoes, grains and especially wheat spike my blood sugar more than fruit or even juice.  I plan on eating grainfree for life and recommend it to everyone.  That being said im not militant about it, i occasionally slip up eat grains but usually pay for it somehow. 

Hope this helps!

[Observer]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to stop in and leave an update. 

Like I said before I really wish i would have been able to test my serum feritin level before taking any Iron supplements.  I just wasnt able to.  After one week of supplementing with 75mg ferrochel iron chelate with 1000 mg vitamin c complex at bedtime  I improved tremendously.  I continued supplementing like this because I was worried that if I stopped the symptoms and suffering would return.  SO after 60 days of this regimen I went to a local walk in lab and got my ferritin tested.  This costed 31.00$.  My level came back at 250 with the range going up to 300.  I was surprised it was that high. 

After doing some research I came to the conclusion that my test could have been affected by the previous nights supplementation, I took 50mg before bed and the next morning got tested.  Now it has been a week with no supplemental iron and im doin very well despite an ejaculation.  Im going to retest next weekend after two weeks of zero iron and report back. 

My advice is to get checked first before supplementing.  If it turns out you are low supplement for a few weeks and then get retested.  Then you will see how fast your improving.  Also you may be able to determine the optimum level for you personally.  I say this because iron levels can be too high which isnt good either.  Personally I think 75 is a good level for ferritin in men.
 

Well, I have just done it. I took a blood test the other day, I expect the results to come in the next days so I will report back my ferritin levels. Also got my Vitamin D and Vitamin B-12 levels tested.

[Observer]

Well, I just talked to another forum member who is from Spain, and he told me that his blood test showed a 120 ng/ml concentration of ferritin levels.

I don't think he has issues with ferritin, though the levels could be surely raised until 300 ng/ml (more than that could be dangerous!)

The Vitamin D reading was 51.6 ng/ml also within acceptable levels.

I will upload my own results in a few hours...

[Observer]

Well, I have just received the results of my blood test.

Ferritin is within the normal range (25-300) ng/ml, but significantly closer to the lower range. I got exactly 79 ng/ml.

What do you think about this result Blake? How are you doing right now?

Best Regards,

[Observer]

This week I have been taking 1 capsule of Iron Bisglycinate (20 mg) in the morning, after my Orange juice (I did so in order to increase the absorption of Iron given the benefitial effect of Vitamin C on it). This Iron is one of the most healthy and powerful forms of Iron Chelate (doesn't produce any secondary symptoms, at least they have not appeared in any recent study) and doesn't compete with other elements such as Zinc or Magnesium.

After 1 week, today I had an Orgasm WITHOUT taking niacin. I cannot say that I got rid of my POIS 100%, but I am definitely not feeling any brain fog (very surprising, since I ate even some bread afterwards which in a normal POIS episode will cause me more brain fog), I don't feel as agitated as I should during a full-blown POIS episode.

I am planning to update about how I am feeling after this following 2 days (I'll probably have another O. this Friday, I don't know if I'll use niacin... it will depend on how I am feeling by then) - right now, I don't want to be specially optimistic because I am fully aware of the fact that POIS can make a comeback. I am planning as well to continue with this little experiment for another week, and then decide the best path to take...)

We'll like to hear from you Blake...

Best Regards to everyone...

BTW, My B-12 levels were 328 ng/ml (optimal range is between 200-850 ng/ml), last time they were slightly below 300 ng/ml, so it seems they have surged a little into the optimum range I guess...

[Observer]

It seems that this POIS episode is less severe than others. I had a good sleep, something which is really complicated while in POIS and I feel that I can interact with other people in a normal way. However, brain fog made an appearance yesterday at night and I cannot say that I'm 100% OK at this moment but I think we could be onto something. I recognize that this could be for other reasons, since I didn't have an O. since 10 days ago and I was feeling very energized.

I hope to shed more light on this issue during the following days.

[Blake]

Hello everyone
 
I've been meaning to stop by but have been waiting on my replacement keyboard to arrive.  Anyhow I'm doing well and I just want to encourage you all to stay hopefull.  There were times over the last few years that I felt hopeless having such strong desires and no way to release them without suffering.  I'm hear to let you know there is light at the end of the tunnel and I understand many of you are undergoing great trials and tribulations and for that i'm sorry, I know what your going through. 

Observer, 79 should be adequate for ferritin, I was personally aiming to be in the 75-125 range.  When it comes to the blood b12 and copper also play a very big role aswell.  While some of the reference levels set by medical establishments are in my opinion set at the very bottom or too low one still has to be cautious since iron, copper and other metals can be too high.  Balance is the key. 

So heres where I'm at currently.  I have a habit of refraing from ejaculatiing as long as possible after years of poise but ive released recently after a 10 day "charging" period and felt fine.  A few days ago I had two back to back releases and thought I might be pushing my luck but Im at day three and I feel fanatasic!  Even recently I would get a little edgy at the 48 hour mark post o but I seem to be over that too. 

I just learned some more very interesting info about gut health which I'm starting to think may be a key player in this and many other conditions.  Most people are aware of gluten and that it can cause gut issues, leaky gut ect.  This can happen even if your not celiac but just sensitive to gluten.  Check out "Whats with Wheat" on Netflix for more on wheat.  What I just learned is that there is Type 1 and type 2 casein protien found in dairy.  Dairy from Holsteins and Fresians are very high in type 1 casein which is awfull for a large percentage of the population.  Type 1 casein acts like gluten, causes leaky gut, neurolgical issues and like gluten stimulates the opiode recepters in the brain potentially causing fogginess and definatly causing addiction.  Most people have issues with dairy so its worth looking into.  You could search for casomorphin, type 1 casien and inflamation ect.  If you suffer currently or during childhood from sinus infections, upper respiratory infections, ear infections, asthma, allergies, tonsilitis, or bronchitis its likely a type 1 casein issue. 

Another interesting tidbit of info is that your body cannot absorb vitamin C and sugar simultaneously.  It turns out people with certain cardiovascular issues actually have a low grade scurvy.  without enough vitamin c the body cannot properly form collagen and in the blood vessels this causes tears that are then patched with cholesterol which builds up and causes blockages.  This happens in the digestive track aswell, tiny  tears develop causing a leaky gut, food passes through these tears and causes an autoimmune response.  This been blamed on saturated fat and treated with sythetic pharmacueticals but the problem is too much sugar.  Both Dr Darren Shmidt and Dr Berg on Youtube have videos explaining this. 

One thing id like to mention is that in hindsight instead of supplementing with ferrochel iron chelate I would have first tried an organic grassfed undefatted desicated beef liver supplement as its a more natural way to supplement iron and has numerous other benefits including all the b complex especially b12 and all the fat soluble vitamins a,e,d,and k.  I jus started taking 3 grams of these liver pills a couple of days ago but i've been feeling incredible.  I also just started taking Now foods digestive enzymes one or two capsules before a meal to supercharge my digestive system. 

I had been on a grain free diet, no white potatoes and keeping carbs under 125g per day even if Im very active but I've no decided to go full paleo meaning no grains and no dairy.  I didnt come to this decision lighty as I REALLY enjoy cheese...But i'm off the dairy for awhile as an experiment.  I may try adding back in type 2 dairy later on, stuff like goat and sheep cheeses, and kefir preferably grassfed and unpastuerized and organic/fermented. 

I'm still taking a little tyrosine, b6, zinc especially after release and I always supplement a lot of magnesium.  I've been eating 5-7 cups of greens everyday to help the digetive flora and for the potassium.  I just started experimenting with rhodiola as well, strong stuff...

Well I'm starting to feel narcacistic talking about myself so much and this is very unstructured already so I think I'll leave it at that.  If anyone needs any clarification on any of the above just let me know.  Godspeed Gentlemen. 

[Nas]

Bottom line here's what finally worked for me.  Iron.  Research "iron and catecholamines".  Turns out one with low iron has 2/3 times the adrenaline in there blood.  And the clearance
 of adrenaline and catacholemines takes 3/4 times as long.  So the niacin helps clear some of this adrenaline and that's why I think it helps. The high catecholamines cause a multitude of problems.  So what I've been doing is taking ferochel iron chelate 100 mg with 1000mg vitamin c every other night.  I also try to live a healthy life style, plenty of sleep, amino acids, paleo with a focus on saltwater fish dha and greens.  I do a shake with four egg yolks, natural whey, ashwhaganda, lecithin, banana  and coconut water.  I keep refined sugar low as possible.  And now that I'm taking iron tyrosine is helpful where before it made me edgy. P5p is a staple as is vitamin e especially after ejaculation.

I have had low hemoglobin in the past, had anyone else had low Iron or low hemoglobin before?