POISCENTER
General Category => Poll Center => Topic started by: berlin1984 on May 08, 2020, 01:35:01 PM
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I am wondering if there is a correlation with pois as this can be worked around with Tryptophan/5HTP which gets the gut nerves moving.
And some people report improvements with Tryptophan/5HTP (even if it is just for repleneshing serotonine or whatever it does..)
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Are you located in Berlin, hence the name?
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berlin1984, welcome to the forum!
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Yes, Berlin. Note that there is multiple in the whole world, I'm in the biggest one ;-)
Thanks for the welcome. I've known this forum for many years, but only registered now.
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Just so you be aware, there is a lab in Berlin where you can order tests quite easily:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3207.0
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there is a lab in Berlin where you can order tests quite easily:
Thanks this sounds great. The corona test picture on their web page scares me a bit, I will postpone this for some months.
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Let us know on the forum if you decide to proceed with the testing by that time. People could give you their opinion about testing for certain parameters regarding various theories. You will get a view from multiple angles that way which can help you in making a final selection.
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Hi Berlin, in pois i hawe sometimes some sort of anaphalaxsis, is suspect because bovel put presure on lower back erea on prostate wich is in pain and feels inflamed. And some times , only arousall with no OE, induce contipation next day.
(neurodigestive isues is linked to pois in my case).
By the way, me , Muon and crew did searching for man in Germay who will be capable to do some "special" testings.
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Other constipation poll: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1513.0
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I now believe this can be greatly improved by doing two things:
Drink a glass of warm water after waking up (drink it fast)
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=drinking+water+fast+in+morning
Eat yoghurt.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2775.msg35284#msg35284
Take physalis berries (Cape gooseberry, goldenberry).
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3306.msg35444#msg35444
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Forum keyword: "motility"
Google keywords: "gut motility", "GI motility" or "Gastrointestinal motility"
Apparantly low motility is one of the triggers for SIBO.
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Things that are also supposed to help:
* Magnesium (general good thing to take..)
* Choline (supplement forms or egg yolk)
* Vagus Nerve exercises (gargling, ..)
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Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide replenishment rescues colon degeneration in aged mice
https://www.nature.com/articles/sigtrans201717
"Notably, this colonic degeneration was accompanied with reduced key NAD+-generating enzyme expression and lowered NAD+/NADH ratio in aged colon. Three-month continuous administration of beta nicotinamide mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor, elevated colonic NAD+ level and improved defecation in aged mice. "
beta nicotinamide mononucleotide = NMN.
For humans, it might(!) work to take NADH sublingual or Nicotinamide riboside (NR).
Niacin = nicotinic acid
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Ribose Accelerates Gut Motility and Suppresses Mouse Body Weight Gaining
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4870713/
"Ribose oral treatment in wild type mice also enhanced bowel motility and rendered mice resistance to high fat diets. The suppressed weight gain was resulted from enhanced ingested food excretion"
(Obviously we don't want too much motility)
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Forum keyword: "motility"
Google keywords: "gut motility", "GI motility" or "Gastrointestinal motility"
Apparantly low motility is one of the triggers for SIBO.
If you feel that you're fatigued before eating or after eating or around your usual toilet time:
20 drops of Iberogast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberogast) and one cup of warm water with ginger powder.
Really works wonders.
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Gastric emptying is slow in chronic fatigue syndrome
https://bmcgastroenterol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-230X-4-32
These observations indicate that there is measurable disturbance in upper gut motility corresponding with symptoms in CFS
Gut inflammation in chronic fatigue syndrome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964729/
Probiotics also have the potential to improve gut motility, which is dysfunctional in many CFS patien
(Obvious disclaimer: CFS is not the same as POIS, not everyone with POIS has CFS, but the symptoms overlap and more women than men have CFS... see other threads for this topic..)
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I stopped SJW (St. John's Wort) because it leads to low gut motility.
(TODO: Insert source link, I also experienced it myself)
I still like Iberogast a lot.
Iberogast (STW 5-II) is recommended in "The gastrointestinal symptoms present in patients with postural tachycardia syndrome: A review of the literature and overview of treatment".
https://www.autonomicneuroscience.com/article/S1566-0702(18)30052-3/pdf
EDIT:
Taking sublingual NADH also seems to start motility and kill my fatigue
I stopped taking a greens poweder containing spirulina, I think Spirulina creates constipation.
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i have no constipation at all but very rare bowel movements like 1-2 times a week. so when my pois is getting better on any drugs this condition is much improved(1 bowel movement a day).
and i see when i add gallbladder supp to my diet my movements improves too
now im trying prucalopride 0.5mg for sibo cure(i have much flatulence and bloating after fodmap foods) and my pois is noticeably improved.
my theory at the moment is that many people have pois due sibo or smth gut imbalance
so motor complex is great major problem for many of sibo sufferers
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When I last week started again to force myself to drink more mineral water (from real mineral springs, not carbonated tap water from the soda streamer) and additionally forced myself to take some electrolyte powders/pills (and just table salt), I felt better.
Also my gut transit problems (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3293) improved a lot.
Maybe the goal is also to drink the water quickly, e.g. google for "salt water flush", it's about salt water with lemon.
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It's too early to say for sure, but I think I fixed this problem 95%ish with a combination of:
* Stopping coffee, having one only once in a few days. Chronic coffee messes with receptors in gut/brain/who-knows-where-else
* Drinking mineral water instead of tap water
* Drinking alcohol free wheat beer for hydration. (isotonic drink)
* Season now being in autumn, e.g. less dehydration in general
* (I also had the antibiotics treatment, but it did not affect this issue, I'm quite sure about that because as soon as I don't drink enough or take coffee daily, problems come back)
If I sometimes feel this fatigue is coming on, I'll start chug down mineral water, this shakes something up in my gut, then bowel movement, then fine.
Those lifestyle changes above also seemed to fix my "standing intolerance" (Orthostatic intolerance, always self diagnosed, not my doctor).
Over the years, I also often had heightened uric acid levels (with pain in joints/bones/whatever) which I think are just correlated with dehydration (and alcohol consumption, I stopped alcohol in february already).
I restarted SJW (St. John's Wort) because I'm curious about the potential it has for drive/motivation in general and also for POIS)
TODO: I'll link to the relevant threads here in the forum as most of the ideas I got from the forum here
EDIT: Of course magnesium helps too, daily mangesium in low dose should be good..
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Now I think those things are all so interconnected it's crazy. :o
My fatigue is improved by a certain licorice candy which makes the slow transit go faster. I can really feel the relief when the gut works faster, it also pushes my general energy production up. Hard to describe.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3621.msg40204#msg40204
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"If the intestines don't work well the first thing is to improve the food so you can absorb nutrients better. If there's a bloating belly simple you have a bad nutrient absorption so any bloating belly is a sign of malabsorption because there's inflammation of the intestinal tract so if you have inflammation the cells are like sick and they don't absorb well and they can also have a leaky gut so you can get substances that are unwanted inside and so that's why you need to decrease the inflammation and the best thing is the way you eat when you have a bloating belly you should skip a meal [Dont eat after 17 pm] that's the first thing to do you should do, also eat maybe boiled foods and eat less foods in in general and better food choice so if you take milk products and grains and bread you will always inflame and sugar and sweets and chocolate"
Hormonal expert Thierry Hertoghe - Webinar - Nutritional therapies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rZ6gfGG6Ek) 2021-03-03 at about 1:50:00.
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https://www.dinet.org/forums/topic/12933-exhaustion-after-bowel-movement/
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I think I greatly improved this proble by taking Carmenthin which is an acid resistent capsule with peppermint oil and caraway seed oil. (for many months now).
This goes a bit into the SIBO corner, although I'm now thinking SIBO is just somehing that results from low motility.
Carmenthin = Menthacarin (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Menthacarin&btnG).
I still sometimes take Iberogast. I drink black coffee every morning. I take a walk every day.
I don't have POTS-like symptoms anymore usually, although this might be related to the season (autumn/winter, no hay fever anymore). Or my POTS was solved somehow magically ???
As written in other thread (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=427.msg42970#msg42970), my POIS is quite good recently even when not using adaoptogens or Quantum's pre-pack. Only big problem is strong evening fatigue on the day after orgasm and mental exhaustion.
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My problem is back but I found this interesting:
gut motility not workin
as it should, so valves in intesines like ileoccecal can stay open
when it shouldnt be or sty closed long perio of times..
(...)
https://drjockers.com/benefits-ileocecal-valve-massage/
(https://333oee3bik6e1t8q4y139009mcg-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ILEOCECALVALVE.png)
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Food’s transit time through body is a key factor in digestive health
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160627125525.htm
“In short, our study shows that the longer food takes to pass through the colon, the more harmful bacterial degradation products are produced. Conversely, when the transit time is shorter, we find a higher amount of the substances that are produced when the colon renews its inner surface, which may be a sign of a healthier intestinal wall,”
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Sounds very "duh" but this problem seems fixed again, by sipping Yakult or Actimel with meals. 1 to 1.5 bottles (they are small!) per day.
Takes a few days to get accustomed to (initial flatulence, better don't take it in evening..).
Makes my mood during the day much calmer than before, less agression and MORE ENERGY. I'm really surprised it has such a big effect!
https://cfsremission.com/2015/11/29/yakult-l-casei-shirota/
https://cfsremission.com/2015/12/29/lactobacillus-casei/
https://cfsremission.com/2015/12/05/more-testing-of-what-is-in-commercial-probiotics/
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I think I for sure fixed this.
I'm taking a probiotic called Omnibiotic SR-9 (https://www.google.com/search?&q=Omnibiotic+SR-9) which is claimed to help for fatigue and stress resistence.
Additionally, I drink 1 small bottle of Actimel/Yacult during the day.
Of course I also drink 1-2 cups of coffee during the day, the number 1 supplement.
I take serotine influecing supplements (Ashwagandha, Rosea Rhodiola) only as acute medicine, not chronic daily usage.
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I have this problem as well, though I think it is only part of the issue and not the source. Nevertheless given my success with ERbeta agonists it seems clear that Interstitial cells of Cajal (ICC) must be involved in this particular symptom.
Interstitial cells of Cajal (ICCs) are pacemaker cells in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract and generate pacemaker potentials. The estrogen receptor (ER) beta antagonist PHTPP completely inhibited CAPE-induced depolarization, but the ERalpha antagonist BHPI did not. These results suggest that caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE) induces pacemaker potential depolarization through ERbeta in a G protein, NSCC, Cl– channel, MAPK- and PI3 kinase dependent manner via intracellular and extracellular Ca2+ regulation in the murine small intestine. CAPE may therefore modulate GI motility by acting on ICCs in the murine small intestine.
https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjpp-2019-0452
Interstitial cells of Cajal (ICC) are mesenchymal cells located within the muscle layers of the alimentary tract that mediate communication between the autonomic nervous system and smooth muscle and may underlie dysrhythmias, gastroparesis, and slow intestinal transit comprising diabetic gastroenteropathy.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/interstitial-cell-of-cajal
ICC also mediate neural input from enteric motor neurons. Animals lacking ICC have greatly reduced responses to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, released from excitatory motor neurons, and to the transmitter nitric oxide, released from inhibitory motor neurons. Loss of ICC in disease, therefore, may interrupt normal neural control of gastrointestinal (GI) contractions and lead to functional GI disorders, such as irritable bowel syndrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstitial_cell_of_Cajal
Slow transit constipation (STC) rat model was treated with aqueous extracts of Herba Cistanche (AEHC), which increased the protein and mRNA levels of c-kit and enhanced labeling of interstitial cells of Cajal (ICC). In addition, the level of SCF, a ligand of c-kit, was also regulated. The experiment result indicated that AEHC could improve the function of ICC via a signaling pathway involving SCF, c-kit, and PI3K and thereby enhance colonic motility. Altogether, Cistanche tubulosa is a kind of Herba Cistanche and the extracts of Herba Cistanche can improve the function of ICC, enhance colonic motility, affect the structural composition of the gut microbiota, and reverse the disordered concentration of SCFA. Therefore, the gut microbiota may mediate the regulation role of the extracts of Herba Cistanche in the signaling pathway involving PI3K, SCF, and c-kit and improve the function of ICC and colonic motility.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2019/9372563/
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This is my current protocol for improving my gut transit time:
* Ginger extract pills daily.
* TTFD daily.
]Just to chime in, I'm also taking TTFD for quite some time now (several months) and I definitely like it and will keep taking it.
It's good for my general energy and my normally lacking gut motility. (I think it also improves my POIS as my feeling is everything that is anti-fatigue, pro-muscle-building or pro-male-fertility or pro-testosterone is also improving POIS)
I also liked this guest post of the EONutrition guy on another blog (HormonesMatter): https://hormonesmatter.com/sibo-ibs-constipation-thiamine-deficiency/
* Sometimes I take Triphala. It's not supposed to be used daily.
I have not proven this completely yet, but if I take all those after a garlic meal (and in evening too?) then I will not have bad FODMAP reaction from the garlic (so no strong bloating + headache + general off feeling)
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This is my current protocol for improving my gut transit time:
* Ginger extract pills daily.
* TTFD daily.
]Just to chime in, I'm also taking TTFD for quite some time now (several months) and I definitely like it and will keep taking it.
It's good for my general energy and my normally lacking gut motility. (I think it also improves my POIS as my feeling is everything that is anti-fatigue, pro-muscle-building or pro-male-fertility or pro-testosterone is also improving POIS)
I also liked this guest post of the EONutrition guy on another blog (HormonesMatter): https://hormonesmatter.com/sibo-ibs-constipation-thiamine-deficiency/
* Sometimes I take Triphala. It's not supposed to be used daily.
I have not proven this completely yet, but if I take all those after a garlic meal (and in evening too?) then I will not have bad FODMAP reaction from the garlic (so no strong bloating + headache + general off feeling)
You should also try Chyawanprash if you can, as it can be regarded as a Triphala plus. Additionally I had a really nice experience with it recently, especially when I took with 2 teaspoons at once alongside the usual stuff.