POISCENTER
POIS Life Style => Lifestyle Diary and POIS Summaries => Topic started by: Chris on April 26, 2013, 11:42:36 AM
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I suppose that people who got POIS after puberty had a normal teenage years and function good and could have orgasms without any symptoms,without POIS generally..Can anyone remember how POIS started on them..When did POIS started to occur and what's the reason (anything strange or unusual that preceded before symptoms started to appear)..I 'm curious to know and who knows this might help us in the future..So please try to remember, i think its worth it..I have tried many times but as long as i remember i had POIS since i got in puberty..But someone who got POIS in adulthood surely must remember when this syndrome started in his life and if you think hard you may find what cause it,what was the trigger.
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Chris 18,
This is just about one of the best questions about POIS that I've seen! Good for you for asking it!!
There are at least three forum members who I'm aware of who developed POIS in adulthood. One had undergone a vasectomy reversal, the other had undergone some type of penile enlargement (I think!) procedure. Either way, it was after both had undergone a surgical procedure involving the genital tract.
Another forum member had developed a thyroid condition -- I think it was hyperthyroidism -- and required medication to destroy part of his thyroid. He was a young adult at the time, past puberty.
They can come forward and speak for themselves, and I hope they will (they already have spoken about this in the past).
I think this is a very important question -- one that could help move research on POIS faster, giving some direction to researchers who are viewing this forum. It would also provide NORD's Medical Advisory Committee with some solid information about possible causes of POIS (there may be more than one, exact cause). They will be determining who the award recipient is for this group's research grant, and I am certain that this information could be quite helpful!
Stef
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Thanks Stef for refering some,its obvious that this cases have a very common clue..But we need to hear from more if there exists and if there is anyone else who got POIS in their adulthood they should tell us when they started to feel the symptoms after ejaculation and what preceded before..anything strange or unusual..POIS sufferers and not only, must be a little detective in theirselves, a little scientist, a little observant and think what might cause them the problem that they are facing..Starting with assumptions and logically thoughts we may find a conclusion..
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I was normal for years and developed POIS when I was about 17-18 years old. I could have sex before that, sometimes up to 7 times a day lol and be fine. I am 22 now and cannot have sex once without the dreaded POIS. The only thing that I remember doing differently was that I started to drink coffee, getting hyper and unable to control myself. I was an avid gamer, getting adrenaline spikes, etc., also very outgoing. I also remember going camping that summer, which made me think maybe I was bit by a tick and developed some kind of disease that caused POIS, but now I am almost convinced it is just some auto-immune disease having to do with my own body. Why would a disease react to your own orgasm/stimulation? After about a year of just drinking one cup of coffee every morning I noticed POIS. So I stopped drinking coffee but the POIS has remained ever since. So I think that it was possibly an overload of stress due to coffee that caused my body to possibly attack itself upon orgasm... But yet I'm not completely sure. I remember one day when I was sitting on my chair after school and felt so mentally overwhelmed (maybe I am extremely sensitive to coffee/caffeine), and I felt something "come in" to my head, like some kind of chemical. I think maybe it was my body mistakenly reacting to my orgasm instead of the caffeine, but I still have no idea. After that, POIS developed.
I used to be a very calm kid before drinking coffee and developing POIS, but I'm not sure if it was coffee that caused it all. It could be a gene that expressed itself after puberty, but again I am not sure.
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Sorry for off topic - But how old are guys generally with this? Maybe someone could PM me :)
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Going less crazy,
My life was very similar like yours..Coffee was a part of me too but i dont think it has any relation to coffee..The whole world drinks coffee ! I dont know i have this feeling that something outside us cause this problem..I dont believe that we were borned with this..Maybe i'm wrong but who knows..I didnt use to look after myself..I used to smoke,have a bad way of living,bad food,drinking alcohol..Doing stuff that are very harmful to my body..Maybe i caused this problem to me due to my bad way of living or maybe not..I dont know..Hope i get an answer to this...I have a lot of qualms about my past...
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Sorry for off topic - But how old are guys generally with this? Maybe someone could PM me :)
The stats of a survey we did show people of all ages, but with a slightly higher density in the range from puberty to 40.
About half have had it since puberty.
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Im very much interested in this as it can give us some idea on where to look deeper. I already posted a bit about me but mine started roughly 5 years ago(i am 32 now). I worked at a coffee shop for years and was fairly active as well. Had stress for most of my life but nothing i couldn't handle. The only thing i remember right before is heavy gaming, computer and tv use and being on antibiotics for about a week.
I have eczema and stomach issues as well(can't drink milk, spicy foods, white bread and few other things).
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I actually feel like competitive gaming, especially games that get your adrenaline pumping are really bad for POIS. I've actually noticed a big difference mentally between the days I do play games, and the days I don't play games. I also forgot to mention that being the kid that I was I used to gamble a lot with friends and also online... that was another thing that got my adrenaline pumping... I was an adrenaline junkie. I remember in the past I stopped competitive gaming for a month or two and felt completely calm. Right now as I am in college I play games with my friends but it's strange because the days I do play games I sleep terribly, the days I don't play games I sleep much better. This is through months and months of experimentation. It's just when you have hours and hours of nothing to do you resort to games or whatever... I also play basketball here but I feel like sports are a lot better for your body than video games because in sports you burn off the adrenaline much quickly, gaming just leaves adrenaline coursing throughout your whole body. I'm going to stay away from these games for a while.
I did use to heavily game, drink coffee, and gamble back in the days that I have developed POIS. Is it possible that this led to an imbalance in my immune system leading to POIS? If so, how do you cure that? Obviously a reduction of stress helps, that is why I am staying away from anything too stimulating.
Chris18, I realize the whole world drinks coffee but I believe I am extremely sensitive now, I can't drink a cup of green tea without feeling like I am not going a little nuts.
Also, I've read from some website that up to 80% of people with autoimmune diseases described an emotional overload of stress at the time of their disease development.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18190880
You know, maybe this disease wasn't documented in the past because people weren't stressing themselves out with these competitive games, coffee, gambling, etc.
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My past as i said in an other topic was full of video games too..But i used play sports simultaneously and going out for walks..When coffee came to my life i didnt play games so much..I was surfing on the internet at noon and going out at nights(smoking cigarettes all day :-P)..POIS wasnt so bad for me until i stopped smoking and drinking coffee and have a bad way of living generally..When i quited all these then POIS became worse and thats the strangest thing..Now, i am doing a lot of exercise and i dont have stress or be anxious just be a lot of nervous(symptom by POIS),i also dont drink coffee but sometimes when i have headaches i drink a cup of tea at home and relax..As for the past i believe they had more stressing times than we do..They had wars,fights,deaths,diseases all these bad stuff..It wasnt reported because POIS sufferers just couldnt..They believed that, that was theirselves and not a rare disease..That was the same i believed too..That i was borned weak,with problems communicating and all these POIS symptoms..Even if they did started to realise sth noone would believe them..Because noone knew about POIS since the last decade!They might call them crazy or nuts i dont know..And then eventually POIS sufferers gave up and lived a life like hell.AS WE ARE ALL LIVING NOW...
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I dont quite remember but after a desensitization from many allergen I developed asthma and over time many autoimmune disorders like Crohn . I am 17 now, got this around 14 to 15 years old, and worsened with Crohn disease.
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I forgot to say that I developed POIS shortly after receiving a vaccine for Tuberculosis. The one that bubbles up on your skin to let doctors see if you have a reaction. Anybody else relate? Or is it just a coincidence. I also think I've read somewhere that vaccines can trigger an auto-immune problem.
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I had it when I was 18. But a very mild form of my pois started when I was 16. Then it became as it is now when I was 24. Maybe the vaccine aggravated the situation
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Poisioq your case is very similar to me..I am not saying i didnt have POIS..I had but not so intense..The intesnity became bigger after the age of 17..
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I had it when I was 18. But a very mild form of my pois started when I was 16. Then it became as it is now when I was 24. Maybe the vaccine aggravated the situation
Even atibiotics could trigger it.
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I had it when I was 18. But a very mild form of my pois started when I was 16. Then it became as it is now when I was 24. Maybe the vaccine aggravated the situation
Even atibiotics could trigger it.
actually I've also been taking antibiotics for a suspected prostatitis.
I don't know exactly which one, but some external factor have missed up my system.
pheraps when I still was a fetus
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[Posted by new forum member, "yasienhossam", representing medical researchers who sign this posted letter. Emailed Letter addressed to Dr. Marcel Waldinger]
Dear Prof Waldinger,
It has given us great honor when the editors of F1000 Research had told us that you will be one of the reviewers of our paper but we were astonished when we read your response which said that you refused our work that was accepted (with reservation) by the other 3 referees. We think and feel that it was not fair enough.
Actually we respect your own opinion but we are surprised!; how it comes to reject a case report of POIS (the rare disease) and say that you encourage publication in that topic?!. Is it related to what you think that; the idea of atopy may be a precipitating factor for POIS is yours and not ours ?!. We think that this is not true. This is because we discovered our case by the end of 2009 and at that time you have only one publication in 2002- in which you didn't refer at all to atopy. We have found that our patient is atopic and in addition to the cognitive and body pains he feels post orgasmic; his atopy flares up eye irritation with severe body itching. By December 2009 and after preparing the report and before its publication we sent you 3 e-mails with about one week intervals, by the full length paper to ask you your experience as the only reporter of this syndrome - at that time - but sadly enough we didn't receive any reply. Please, return back to your archive. Moreover; in 2010; we shared the ISSM forum by this case report also before you mention at all any relation of POIS to atopy - you mentioned it only in your publication at 2011 - and many of our colleagues who are ISSM members shared by comments and discussion ; we remember that one of them was Prof. David Goldmeier. Please go back to the ISSM Forum 2010. This case report was presented as a poster in the 20th World Congress for Sexual Health, held in June 12- 16, 2011, Glasgow, UK , and published in its proceedings . For the before mentioned reasons we think that; it is ours and not yours that; atopy may be a precipitating factor for POIS and we must ask about and check for it in any of POIS cases.
Our Dear Dr Waldinger, in your reply one of the reasons for which you refused our case report -as you stated - is that we mentioned that; NSAIDs, tramadol and SSRIs may help and you didn't find any response to these drugs. We want to remind you that this is not our findings but the references mentioned and our patient didn?t get any benefit from trying these drugs; please you can read our case report again !.
What we feel very important and we want to discuss is the skin prick test as a diagnostic test for allergy. Do you think that it is a reliable one in this regard? is it enough to reach the final conclusion that POIS patients are allergic to their own semen and that this is the cause of POIS?. Basically; we know - and it is scientifically proved - that this test has many false positive and negative results. Moreover; we as andrologists ; knew - and it is scientifically proved as well that; our semen is foreign for our body and our immune system. Immunologic tolerance to it is not present as it formed only after our puberty where the immune system didn't identify it in utero. For this reason our God totally separated it from our immune system by what is well known now as the very competent Blood Testis barrier that is formed by the highly efficient Sertoli Sertoli cell junctional complex. It is not - as you mentioned on you tube - a hypothetical membrane. Only in certain known pathologic conditions this barrier may be broken. If occurred we form auto-antibodies against our semen. So; when we inject our own semen intradermaly we will react positively to it as it is a foreign antigen for us. Please try to apply this very simple prick test for you and your assistants using your own semen; mostly you will get a positive reaction without having POIS. Moreover; if we suppose that; allergy to the patient's own semen is the cause of POIS; it was mandatory to measure serum and seminal plasma anti-sperm antibodies; IgA, IgG and IgM, to do immuno bead and MAR testing and to report on the patient's seminogram changes as in such cases ? if this is true - POIS patients will be mostly infertile as well. So; as you depended only upon the unreliable skin prick test and for the afore mentioned scientific facts, we - and we think that we will be shared by anyone who is interested in andrology - think that; your conclusion is not right and we can't scientifically accept that the cause of POIS is allergy to own semen.
Dear Prof, we are surprised; how it comes that; only from two patients ? without placebo control ? wants us to accept that; hyposensitization using the patient's own semen is the treatment of POIS!. Although your last two papers are published in a highly respectable journal we are sorry to say that; this is not right from the scientific facts mentioned above and they are only two patients. We think that; any benefit if any is not more than placebo.
Thanks,
Prof. Dr Abdalla attia & Dr Hossam Yasien
Andrology Unit,
Faculty of Medicine,
Minoufiya University,
Egypt
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yasienhossam, thank you for your excellent questioning!
I hope Waldinger will respond.
Best regards,
Demo
ps - contact info
Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger
dr.m.d.waldinger@gmail.com
[The above was edited from the original below. Edits mostly include "?" for ' and in some cases ? were removed. My apology if I inadvertently altered any original meaning by the author - demo]
Dear Prof Waldinger,
It has given us great honor when the editors of F1000 Research had told us that you will be one of the reviewers of our paper but we were astonished when we read your response which said that you refused our work that was accepted (with reservation) by the other 3 refrees. We think and feel that it was not fare enough.
Actually we respect your own opinion but we are surprised!; how it comes to reject a case report of POIS (the rare disease) and say that you encourage publication in that topic?!. Is it related to what you think that; the idea of atopy may be a precipitating factor for POIS is yours and not ours ?!. We think that this is not true. This is because we discovered our case by the end of 2009 and at that time you have only one publication ? 2002- in which you didn?t refer at all to atopy. We have found that our patient is atopic and in addition to the cognitive and body pains he feels post orgasmic; his atopy flares up ? eye irritation with severe body itching. By December 2009 and after preparing the report and before its publication we send you 3 e-mails with about one week intervals, by the full length paper to ask you your experience? as the only reporter of this syndrome - at that time - but sadly enough we didn?t receive any reply. Please, return back to your archive. Moreover; in 2010; we shared the ISSM forum by this case report ? also before you mention at all any relation of POIS to atopy - you mentioned it only in your publication at 2011 - and many of our colleagues who are ISSM members shared by comments and discussion ; we remember that one of them was Prof. David Goldmeier. Please go back to the ISSM Forum 2010. This case report was presented as a poster in the 20th World Congress for Sexual Health, held in June 12- 16, 2011, Glasgow, UK , and published in its proceedings . For the before mentioned reasons we think that; it is ours and not yours that; atopy may be a precipitating factor for POIS and we must ask about and check for it in any of POIS cases.
Our Dear Dr Waldinger, in your reply one of the reasons for which you refused our case report -as you stated - is that we mentioned that; NSAIDs, tramadol and SSRIs may help and you didn?t find any response to these drugs. We want to remind you that this is not our findings but the references mentioned and our patient didn?t get any benefit from trying these drugs; please you can read our case report again !.
What we feel very important and we want to discuss is the skin prick test as a diagnostic test for allergy. Do you think that it is a reliable one in this regard? is it enough to reach the final conclusion that POIS patients are allergic to their own semen and that this is the cause of POIS?. Basically; we know - and it is scientifically proved - that this test has many false positive and negative results. Moreover; we as andrologists ; knew - and it is scientifically proved as well ?that; our semen is foreign for our body and our immune system. Immunologic tolerance to it is not present as it formed only after our puberty where the immune system didn?t identify it in utero. For this reason our God totally separated it from our immune system by what is well known now as the very competent Blood ? Testis barrier that is formed by the highly efficient Sertoli ? Sertoli cell junctional complex. It is not - as you mentioned on you tube - a hypothetical membrane. Only in certain known pathologic conditions this barrier may be broken. If occurred we form auto-antibodies against our semen. So; when we inject our own semen intradermaly we will react positively to it as it is a foreign antigen for us. Please try to apply this very simple prick test for you and your assistants using your own semen; mostly you will get a positive reaction without having POIS. Moreover; if we suppose that; allergy to the patient?s own semen is the cause of POIS; it was mandatory to measure serum and seminal plasma anti-sperm antibodies; IgA, IgG and IgM, to do immuno bead and MAR testing and to report on the patint?s seminogram changes as in such cases ? if this is true - POIS patients will be mostly infertile as well. So; as you depended only upon the unreliable skin prick test and for the afore mentioned scientific facts, we - and we think that we will be shared by anyone who is interested in andrology - think that; your conclusion is not right and we can?t scientifically accept that the cause of POIS is allergy to own semen.
Dear Prof, we are surprised; how it comes that; only from two patients ? without placebo control ? wants us to accept that; hyposensitization using the patient?s own semen is the treatment of POIS?!. Although your last two papers are published in a highly respectable journal we are sorry to say that; this is not right from the scientific facts mentioned above and they are only two patients. We think that; any benefit ? if any ? is not more than placebo.
Thanks,
Prof. Dr Abdalla attia & Dr Hossam Yasien
Andrology Unit,
Faculty of Medicine,
Minoufiya University,
Egypt
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[Posted by new forum member, "yasienhossam", representing medical researchers who sign this posted letter. Posted Letter addressed to Dr. Marcel Waldinger]
Dear Prof Waldinger,
It has given us great honor when the editors of F1000 Research had told us that you will be one of the reviewers of our paper but we were astonished when we read your response which said that you refused our work that was accepted (with reservation) by the other 3 referees. We think and feel that it was not fair enough.
Actually we respect your own opinion but we are surprised!; how it comes to reject a case report of POIS (the rare disease) and say that you encourage publication in that topic?!. Is it related to what you think that; the idea of atopy may be a precipitating factor for POIS is yours and not ours ?!. We think that this is not true. This is because we discovered our case by the end of 2009 and at that time you have only one publication in 2002- in which you didn't refer at all to atopy. We have found that our patient is atopic and in addition to the cognitive and body pains he feels post orgasmic; his atopy flares up eye irritation with severe body itching. By December 2009 and after preparing the report and before its publication we sent you 3 e-mails with about one week intervals, by the full length paper to ask you your experience as the only reporter of this syndrome - at that time - but sadly enough we didn't receive any reply. Please, return back to your archive. Moreover; in 2010; we shared the ISSM forum by this case report also before you mention at all any relation of POIS to atopy - you mentioned it only in your publication at 2011 - and many of our colleagues who are ISSM members shared by comments and discussion ; we remember that one of them was Prof. David Goldmeier. Please go back to the ISSM Forum 2010. This case report was presented as a poster in the 20th World Congress for Sexual Health, held in June 12- 16, 2011, Glasgow, UK , and published in its proceedings . For the before mentioned reasons we think that; it is ours and not yours that; atopy may be a precipitating factor for POIS and we must ask about and check for it in any of POIS cases.
Our Dear Dr Waldinger, in your reply one of the reasons for which you refused our case report -as you stated - is that we mentioned that; NSAIDs, tramadol and SSRIs may help and you didn't find any response to these drugs. We want to remind you that this is not our findings but the references mentioned and our patient didn?t get any benefit from trying these drugs; please you can read our case report again !.
What we feel very important and we want to discuss is the skin prick test as a diagnostic test for allergy. Do you think that it is a reliable one in this regard? is it enough to reach the final conclusion that POIS patients are allergic to their own semen and that this is the cause of POIS?. Basically; we know - and it is scientifically proved - that this test has many false positive and negative results. Moreover; we as andrologists ; knew - and it is scientifically proved as well that; our semen is foreign for our body and our immune system. Immunologic tolerance to it is not present as it formed only after our puberty where the immune system didn't identify it in utero. For this reason our God totally separated it from our immune system by what is well known now as the very competent Blood Testis barrier that is formed by the highly efficient Sertoli Sertoli cell junctional complex. It is not - as you mentioned on you tube - a hypothetical membrane. Only in certain known pathologic conditions this barrier may be broken. If occurred we form auto-antibodies against our semen. So; when we inject our own semen intradermaly we will react positively to it as it is a foreign antigen for us. Please try to apply this very simple prick test for you and your assistants using your own semen; mostly you will get a positive reaction without having POIS. Moreover; if we suppose that; allergy to the patient's own semen is the cause of POIS; it was mandatory to measure serum and seminal plasma anti-sperm antibodies; IgA, IgG and IgM, to do immuno bead and MAR testing and to report on the patient's seminogram changes as in such cases ? if this is true - POIS patients will be mostly infertile as well. So; as you depended only upon the unreliable skin prick test and for the afore mentioned scientific facts, we - and we think that we will be shared by anyone who is interested in andrology - think that; your conclusion is not right and we can't scientifically accept that the cause of POIS is allergy to own semen.
Dear Prof, we are surprised; how it comes that; only from two patients ? without placebo control ? wants us to accept that; hyposensitization using the patient's own semen is the treatment of POIS!. Although your last two papers are published in a highly respectable journal we are sorry to say that; this is not right from the scientific facts mentioned above and they are only two patients. We think that; any benefit if any is not more than placebo.
Thanks,
Prof. Dr Abdalla attia & Dr Hossam Yasien
Andrology Unit,
Faculty of Medicine,
Minoufiya University,
Egypt
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
yasienhossam, thank you for your excellent questioning!
I hope Waldinger will respond.
Best regards,
Demo
ps - contact info
Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger
dr.m.d.waldinger@gmail.com
Dear Drs. Attia and Yasein,
I was just advised by demografx of your post.
Please apply for the POIS grant!!! We'll give you an extension on the deadline.
Here's a link to the application: http://tinyurl.com/bwhbn5k (http://tinyurl.com/bwhbn5k)
FYI, we did send Dr. Attia the POIS RFP when it was first posted, because we had seen Dr. Attia's poster presentation from a conference that took place about one or two years ago. Perhaps we had an incorrect email address for Dr. Attia.
Stefanie Putkowski, RN
NORD Research Program Administrator
research@rarediseases.org
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This is the article that was NOT approved l (it was rejected by Waldinger, according to the letter from Egypt:
http://f1000research.com/articles/2-113/v1
My opinion: it was a hurtful, unnecessary, competitive slam by W!
approved [ it was actually rejected! by Waldinger, according to the letter from Egypt:
http://f1000research.com/articles/2-113/v1
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Hello everyone, I'm 35 years old and my pois began less than a year.
It started when I tried to cure prostatitis that brought me problems for years and no one could tell what it was, with great depression on my part. I have been prescribed many antibiotics and other drugs that have ruined my intestines. At that time I also developed a terror to the act of masturbation, because I had to ejaculate inside a jar for spermioculture and then for fear of damaging even the prostate. After a short time, I began to lose semen, normally even sitting down. From that point, I began to have flu-like symptoms the day after ejaculation.
So, to summarize, in my case, the factors are possible:
Super Stress and Nervousness
antibiotics
Fear in the sexual
P.S. as I had never taken care of this little infection probably from a young age, when antibiotics have cleaned my semen, they have been able to change the its composition, causing him to be foreign to the body today .... but it's just a guess.
The doctors do not understand anything about this, figured if I can find out.
Greetings to all!
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Hello everyone, I'm 35 years old and my pois began less than a year.
It started when I tried to cure prostatitis that brought me problems for years and no one could tell what it was, with great depression on my part. I have been prescribed many antibiotics and other drugs that have ruined my intestines. At that time I also developed a terror to the act of masturbation, because I had to ejaculate inside a jar for spermioculture and then for fear of damaging even the prostate. After a short time, I began to lose semen, normally even sitting down. From that point, I began to have flu-like symptoms the day after ejaculation.
So, to summarize, in my case, the factors are possible:
Super Stress and Nervousness
antibiotics
Fear in the sexual
P.S. as I had never taken care of this little infection probably from a young age, when antibiotics have cleaned my semen, they have been able to change the its composition, causing him to be foreign to the body today .... but it's just a guess.
The doctors do not understand anything about this, figured if I can find out.
Greetings to all!
There's another possibility, that you have had POIS for longer than you think. Perhaps the prostatitis (that no one could really figure out or cure) was really POIS. For many, POIS may start much before you actually realize that the symptoms are related to ejaculation. And it would be even more complicated if it was hidden by thinking it was prostratitis.
Also some of us have ended up with POIS due to operations or damage in the area. Mine coincides closely with a vasectomy reversal (the POIS increased and became evident several years after the surgery.
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Thanks Daveman,
indeed my fear is that the inflammation of my prostate is an effect of this intolerance to my semen later that year, is coming out.
The only thing that comforts me is with abstinence do not have flu symptoms.
I also add that I have low testosterone and LH and FSH levels below the normal, there is definitely something wrong even in my pituitary gland .. Hopefully one day we will be able to understand what happens in our body.
Best Wishes!
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My guess (un-educated) is that you've probably had POIS for many tears, but they've treated you for everything else because nobody knows what POIS is.
As I said, I had a vasectomy reversal, after 20 yrs of vasectomy. My POIS effects all the "ducting" from the gonads up to the seminal vessels. Everything swells down there including my prostate for the days of POIS.... at least before I discovered niacin.
Then in about 10 days, everything returns to normal. (If I make it that long without sex.)
So you say you "leak", without any sexual arousal, and that alone causes POIS?
Inasmuch as I reject the desensitization theory, we can't have allergy to our own semen, I believe we can "react to it", but more as an autoimmune reaction than an allergic reaction.
This would explain at least the cases like ours where there may have been some injury or plumbing problems that permits sperm to "go where it shouldn't".
And although the end result may be the same (in terms of symptoms), the solution and process is not at all the same.
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Excellent point of view, Daveman.
Doctors should investigate on what changes in seminal fluid as it enters the urinary tract. This could help to compare the values of certain substances of a "normal" man and a "pois" man.
Greetings.
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I forgot to say that I developed POIS shortly after receiving a vaccine for Tuberculosis. The one that bubbles up on your skin to let doctors see if you have a reaction. Anybody else relate? Or is it just a coincidence. I also think I've read somewhere that vaccines can trigger an auto-immune problem.
I don't know if there could be a connection, but I also developed POIS around the time of the Mantoux test. I was at the age of 12 at the time, however I began to masturbate at the age of eleven, but I can't recall if I had any symptoms at the time. I certainly remember some symptoms from the age of 12 or 13 though. I also had some cases of "overmasturbation" (5-6 times a day) around the same age, so I really don't know what could have contributed the most to POIS development. Regarding the Mantoux test I got the shot in my shoulder and I remember the site was filled with pus for several weeks and the wound often opened up while bathing. Based on what you say it was probably a normal reaction though. The information in the vaccine pass is the following:
1997. 05. 09.: BCG – Mtx 5TU negative, Re BCG: "973", 1997. 09. 09.: Scar: positive.
I am not really sure how this should be interpreted. According to wikipedia if the second shot proved positive it means that there was an infection in the distant past. However the real question is whether the test shot itself could have induced POIS onset or if it is a pure coincidence that POIS tends to develop around the same age as this test is scheduled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantoux_test
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I forgot to say that I developed POIS shortly after receiving a vaccine for Tuberculosis. The one that bubbles up on your skin to let doctors see if you have a reaction. Anybody else relate? Or is it just a coincidence. I also think I've read somewhere that vaccines can trigger an auto-immune problem.
I don't know if there could be a connection, but I also developed POIS around the time of the Mantoux test. I was at the age of 12 at the time, however I began to masturbate at the age of eleven, but I can't recall if I had any symptoms at the time. I certainly remember some symptoms from the age of 12 or 13 though. I also had some cases of "overmasturbation" (5-6 times a day) around the same age, so I really don't know what could have contributed the most to POIS development. Regarding the Mantoux test I got the shot in my shoulder and I remember the site was filled with pus for several weeks and the wound often opened up while bathing. Based on what you say it was probably a normal reaction though. The information in the vaccine pass is the following:
1997. 05. 09.: BCG – Mtx 5TU negative, Re BCG: "973", 1997. 09. 09.: Scar: positive.
I am not really sure how this should be interpreted. According to wikipedia if the second shot proved positive it means that there was an infection in the distant past. However the real question is whether the test shot itself could have induced POIS onset or if it is a pure coincidence that POIS tends to develop around the same age as this test is scheduled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantoux_test
I too had that Mantoux test but I do not remember when exactly I first developed POIS symptoms I just recall around ages of 14-15 noticing that each time I ejaculated I had this off feeling but I only abstained long enough when I was 17 to make the clear connection between orgasms/ejaculations/nocturnal emissions and my POIS symptoms
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I know this thread is a bit old, but I thought it was a good/interesting question to answer anyway.
I developed (unknowingly) POIS around age 17. Took me a decent period of time to realize it was POIS/orgasm related. I don't know what caused it. Eating food overseas (in Vietname I did eat a lot of strange food lol)? Vaccines in highschool? All the shitty food I was stuffing myself to try to gain muscle? Back injury? Medication for fungal toe? So many factors, I have no idea.
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Were you submitted to much psychological stress the years before you were 17 years old?
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Were you submitted to much psychological stress the years before you were 17 years old?
I would say not at all. I was a very extraverted and naturally confident kid (POIS made me experience social anxiety for the first time really in my entire life, though I've made some really solid progress back into my old confident state). I grew up in a healthy household, with 2 good parents (not perfect but I'd say better than most probably). The psychological stress I can only really assume began when POIS started. I was also smoking a lot of pot at the time, so it was a terrible combination. Maybe the psychological stress began independently, and then POIS followed, but I doubt it. There was nothing for me to stress about in my life really, apart from the odd thing here and there. I can remember a few specific events that did cause a lot of stress, but they seem normal and only lasted a couple of days (nothing too crazy).
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My POIS emerged spontaneously when I was 39. Until then I had a very normal social life and sex life. Going on four years and the condition is well controlled by medications, diet and lifestyle changes. I believe there's a chance that the condition was originally triggered in part by a few years of reasonably indulgent use of a certain white powder that may have messed with my neurochemistry. That's just a wild guess though. Anyways, it was incredibly frightening and puzzling when symptoms first emerged, then resolved, then re-emerged with seemingly no rhyme or reason, until I made the connextion that it was related to orgasm. Thought I was dying... Then I found this site and my mind was blown.
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I think theres a good chance POIS is autoimmune, at least in my case.
There are 3 factors/events that create autoimmunity that I learn about in the book The Paleo Approach by Sarah B.
1) the right genes
2) environmental toxin
3) leaky gut
Maybe all 3 just came together one day. My diet certainly wasnt amazing, so the leaky gut isnt a far stretch at all. Nothing you can do about genes, and in terms of environmental toxin, this could be literally anything including viruses, exposure to chemicals, etc, which is bound to happen. Then with a bit of bad luck, it is the perfect storm for autoimmunity to develop.
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Happen to look through my immunisation history today. Came across 2 vaccines I was administered at school the year I suspect my POIS began:
15 May 2017 Meningococcal ACWY Menactra
29 Dec 2017 Hepatitis A Typhoid Vivaxim
Pretty sure my POIS began around the beginning of 2018 (ish). Tbh it's very difficult to pinpoint the exact date, but a ballpark memory would honestly be the beginning of 2018.
Ultimately I don't know if any of these vaccines played a key role in starting my POIS, but I cringe at the possibility that it did (as an environmental toxin, a key ingredient for autoimmune diseases developing).
Obz not a doctor or specialist, so this is just speculation.
Now that I think of it, I can't believe ive basically lived with this for 4-5 years. Completely uprooted my entire life, self esteem, mental-health, etc. I will say that since finding my POIS solution, I have managed to turn most of it all around, and am on a good path upwards.
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I think my POIS began after a period of extreme psychological stress
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It started during a period when I was in extreme emotional stress. I was also dehydrated (didn't drink water for days), and I was also masturbating excessively during this period. I was also not sleeping properly.
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old thread, but very interesting, so this is my story:
I am 52 now, my pois started approx. 10 years ago. during these years the symptoms escalated and became more long-lasting, at present some symptoms may have become permanent.
I associate the onset of pois with a period when I watched porn and masturbated more frequently than usual.
Earlier than that I had also had another period when I had more sex than usual and I was puzzled by long-lasting flu-like symptoms.
Another thing that may have played a role is that I removed amalgams from my teeth. that can have caused mercury poisoning.
for more info about mercury poisoning look at this thread:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3203.msg49130#msg49130
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This is a really constructive question! (But not enough people are talking about it?)
I think my POIS started after a period of excessive masturbation and an incident hit on my left testicle. After that, I also have a left-side varicocele and ongoing prostatitis.
I’m curious about happy2’s doctor saying tiny cracks between the seminiferous tubules might cause POIS, although here’s no solid proof yet. Also, Stef mentioned two forum members got POIS after genital surgeries. Does that hint at a link between POIS and trauma to the reproductive system?
Anyway, I think we need more reliable cases and discussions on this!
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This is a really constructive question! (But not enough people are talking about it?)
I think my POIS started after a period of excessive masturbation and an incident hit on my left testicle. After that, I also have a left-side varicocele and ongoing prostatitis.
I’m curious about happy2’s doctor saying tiny cracks between the seminiferous tubules might cause POIS, although here’s no solid proof yet. Also, Stef mentioned two forum members got POIS after genital surgeries. Does that hint at a link between POIS and trauma to the reproductive system?
Anyway, I think we need more reliable cases and discussions on this!
Well, I am a primary case, however this doesn’t necessarily mean that I was born with POIS. It is equally likely that I developed it in my childhood, so the difference between primary and secondary cases may not be so sharp. Of course POIS may have a genetic origin or at least it predisposes us, however there are hardly any cases with multiple familial occurrence. Even if POIS was developed later, it is quite impossible to determine the real cause. In my case I could mention several possibilities. For one I had a hydrocelectomy on my left testicle when I was a kid. I got several vaccines that others also get, but they may have caused a specific alteration in my body. I also had several bad infections and many of them were not even determined. We were sharing the same bath water with family members as a way to save money and this may have led to some infection. I also got chickenpox that a few members associated with POIS. I also had a mumps infection after which my testicles were red (inflamed) for a few weeks, which may be a good candidate, however I did not develop testicular atrophy and even people who do may not have POIS. I remember I also had a bike accident around the age of 11-12 when I used the brake too hard and this led me to hit my testicle into the handle-bar really badly, which was quite painful. Around the same time I began to masturbate and in the beginning I was doing it by rubbing my thing on magazines depicting more or less naked women. At one time I did it in the cellar on a stump and I was probably doing it too hard as my dick bled a little. A little later around the same age I began to use my hand and for a short time I was doing it rather excessively as there were some days, when I cummed at least 6 times. Then even before this I was in a platonic love with a girl for a very long time and I was in a kind of euphoric state for many years as far as I can remember, which may have caused some neurochemical imbalance. I was also avoiding the loo to take a leak in school as a few older students laughed at me there when I was in first grade and this made me anxious. Withholding urination probably put some strain on my body that may have lead to chronic low grade inflammation. I could imagine a few more less likely causes, though even considering the previously mentioned ones it is quite impossible to determine the exact trigger that led to the development of POIS. Of course secondary POISers may find a more specific clue, however even they mention quite many possibilities. In my opinion prolonged inflammation for whatever reason may be the only common link, though some may even refute this. Of course if many more of us would report about this, some pattern could emerge over time, so this is still a fine idea.
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As has been said by others, there may be more than one cause of secondary pois.
One subgroup of cases with secondary pois have had surgery or trauma (ex/ vasectomy surgery or varicocele surgery).
I find the case described below very interesting because it is complete: pois was diagnosed, a physical cause was identified, treatment (surgery) was provided and the patient was cured.
The whole article is worth reading, as well as describing one particular case, it is an excellent overview of pois.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9226701/
"In our case, we hypothesize that POIS is caused by repeated contact of the sperm or epididymal fluid and circulating T-lymphocytes in the seminal tract. Moreover, epididymitis may increase local vascular permeability, which may increase the possibility of blood and semen exposure. Therefore, we believe that epididymectomy and vasoligation are effective ways to eliminate the influence of these two factors. "
Another subgroup of cases (possibly primary and secondary) have low T / hypogonadism so a completely different cause.
Here's a case which is again complete: pois diagnosis, cause identified, treatment and cure.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221444201930453X
"...the possibility that testosterone deficiency may be an underlying etiology in some cases"
More on the blood testis barrier - bit more speculative:-
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4364.msg47224#msg47224
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4353.msg49432#msg49432
As for myself, I have primary pois since puberty so it's more difficult to identify a cause and that would belong to a different thread. But I'm searching for common ground and I hypothesize that perhaps issues with the blood testis barrier, regardless of the cause, could be a similar issue of some primary and secondary cases.
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…The whole article is worth reading, as well as describing one particular case, it is an excellent overview of pois.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9226701/ …
Thanks, Sisyphus, passed along to our POIS Research team!
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Thanks Demo!
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Thanks Demo!
My pleasure :)