Atuo-Immune Cause Hypothesis !!

[MrMoonJr]

I went to my local urologist as part of my first step towards getting an anwser to my P.O.I.S and after sitting with him and discussing my problems, he told me he had come across it in the past and had studied some aspects of it and told me about Immune Privileges. Essentially there are some parts of the body that are protected by a barrier so the immune system can not create an auto immune reaction can not harm them. He told me, he believes in the case of POIS the testicles are lacking this barrier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_privilege#Testes  There is a website with more information. Check the "testes" portion of the website and please tell me your thoughts and ideas

[Daveman]

I saw your post on the other forum, and I was going to ask you to post it here, but as I see I didn't have to.

As I said, so good to see such dedication and openness on the part of a medical professional. It's not all that typical.

I can affirm what this doctor says, it's my case exactly!

Vasectomies have been practiced for about 45 years, which sounds like a long time, but the kind of damage that is refered to here, takes a very long time, and in many cases, it's not enough to produce problemas with the "barrier". My case was exagerated by a reversal, which more extensovely exposed the urinary tract to anti-body laden sperm. Even so, it took about 10 yrs. for the extended aggression to finally produce POIS.

So docotrs reject the sperm allergy theory because it is very improbable. The blood barrier is quite secure. But remember, POIS is RARE. POIS is RARE. The doctors have to understand that it is NOT a normal circumstance that causes it.

I'm Canadian too, but live in Chile, or I'd try to link up with your doctor to help him perhaps prove or understand this theory better. Tell him though that I am living proof, and thank him for me for being so open to understand and permit potential for movement.

[Willem]

I went to my local urologist as part of my first step towards getting an anwser to my P.O.I.S and after sitting with him and discussing my problems, he told me he had come across it in the past and had studied some aspects of it and told me about Immune Privileges. Essentially there are some parts of the body that are protected by a barrier so the immune system can not create an auto immune reaction can not harm them. He told me, he believes in the case of POIS the testicles are lacking this barrier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_privilege#Testes  There is a website with more information. Check the "testes" portion of the website and please tell me your thoughts and ideas

Hi MrMoonJr, Thanks for posting.  I read several sections off of wikipedia.  The fuller article here is very good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testicular_immunology

One key takeaway: "Sperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body."  This is great to know for anyone getting an allergy test.  An allergist tested both me and my wife and we reacted the same way. 

I wonder if other components of semen are immunogenic?

[Habibou]

so that, we should ask someone without POIS to do the skin intradermal test !!! a volonteer??? ^^

[Daveman]

so that, we should ask someone without POIS to do the skin intradermal test !!! a volonteer??? ^^

I think I've heard of all cases, POISers reacting and no reacting, and non-POISers too. But the numbers are few, and I think the procedures in some of the cases have been sketchy.

But bring on the volunteers! A non-POIS volunteer is hard to find, unless perhaps it's a loved one, or family.

[Habibou]

Yes, the best is with a man Non POIS with his Own semen...
And we need over 10 to make a reliable hypothesis !

About this "barrier in the testis", what would be the tests to do? what should we do after? operate?

[MrMoonJr]

Good Question. I got Referred  to an endocrinologist, but i will ask my urologist again what would be a course of action hypothetically. He said, he has researched the condition of POIS but in all of his 15 years practicing I was the first person he has heard that has it

[Daveman]

Good Question. I got Referred  to an endocrinologist, but i will ask my urologist again what would be a course of action hypothetically. He said, he has researched the condition of POIS but in all of his 15 years practicing I was the first person he has heard that has it

Yes, it is officially a Rare Disease! According to NORD. National Organization for rare Disorders: www.rarediseases.org

[Daveman]

Yes, the best is with a man Non POIS with his Own semen...
And we need over 10 to make a reliable hypothesis !

About this "barrier in the testis", what would be the tests to do? what should we do after? operate?

One would need to demonstrate that the barrier has indeed been breached. That there IS a gap. Unfortunately that's not as easy to do as it seems.''

The gap could be a part of the very type I superficial inflamation in the tract from the origin of sperm in the testicles to the prostate and urethra.

This means that out of POIS, it might not even be detectable. The orgasm happens and the area inflames. Now the gap could possibly could be visible, but may not look like more than inflamed tubes and tissues. How could we trace a deeper infltration... perhaps fMRIs coupled with tests for T-Cell activity at the correct location and corresponding moment.

An operation, just guessing, would probably be very difficult due to the potential extent of the area of the gap and the effect it would have on the overall reproductory system.

So this is why either desensitization or maybe male contraceptive methods would have highest potential.

Just stop the invasion of the aggravating factor, be it sperm or other semenal components.

Then there's Lauracostos' hypothesis that some component higher up in the chain is the cause, where the P/T male contraceptive procedure has high potential for stopping the reaction.

[Daveman]

Yes, the best is with a man Non POIS with his Own semen...
And we need over 10 to make a reliable hypothesis !

About this "barrier in the testis", what would be the tests to do? what should we do after? operate?

All this is very interesting. The very fact that there is a blood-barrier and a protected area is excellent support for the fact that POIS is possible. Yes it's rare that the barrier is breached, and POIS is RARE!

It's interesting that Dr. Waldinger uses the skin prick as a test.... given that, in itself, THIS is a breach. Perhaps there are more subtle factors though, that there are pre-existing anti-bodies perhaps...

I think it would be easy to do tests. It might be harder to understand what they mean. That has been a problem for us for some time.