Author Topic: Desensitization Downsides  (Read 5166 times)

Egordon

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Desensitization Downsides
« on: October 08, 2012, 03:48:12 PM »
Hey Guys,

I've been participating in desens therapy for about 3 months now and for much of my treatment saw what I felt to be significant benefits. Recently, though, I'm become aware of immunotherapy's potential drawbacks, and figured I should make sure people on the board have a realistic understanding of them.

For the first few months of my treatment I was receiving injections at dilutions well below the concentration that caused my initial positive test (1:15). Despite these high concentrations, I did feel like I was getting better -- my symptoms seemed to be improving by about 30% post-orgasm. My reduction in symptoms post-orgasm seemed to continue (and progress) as my concentrations got lower, approaching and exceeding 1:15. Around this time, though, I began to "off" more and more often. Some days I had trouble thinking. Some days my brain was working so poorly I felt like I couldn't interact with people. And some days (especially recent ones... i've surpassed 1:10) I felt like I was under nearly full-blow POIS, despite not having had an orgasm. Initially, I didn't think that these problems had anything to do with my injections, and instead attributed them to an apartment that I had just moved into. But a couple days ago, upon exercising and feeling distinctly POIS-y, it dawned upon me that I started feeling like crap right around when my dilutions began to exceed the amount that initially caused me to react.

The symptoms i've experienced has me absolutely puzzled for quite some time, both because I wasn't sure what was triggering them AND because they weren't susceptible to treatment.  Their intractability is especially trying for me because about 5 months ago I found that I could completely eliminate my symptoms (within about 8 hours) by using N.S.A.I.D.s. But now, the drugs I was using simply don't work. The symptoms i'm experiencing are either too strong or caused by something so different, that my old surefire treatments are now useless.

I'm writing all this for a few reasons. First, to make sure that people considering desens know that for a relatively small number of people immunotherapy will PERMANENTLY MAKE YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE, so if you've already got a really effective treatment, you may want to discuss with your doctor whether it's worth trying it out and taking on the downside risk. Second, people considering desens should know that such treatments often increase sensitivity to the allergen prior to improving sensitivity to it. Meaning, it's common for people's symptoms to be made temporarily worse before they get better.

I'm not sure which of the above possibilities i'm dealing with, but i'm hoping to God that's it's not the first. I'm going to talk to my doctor and will try to let you guys know what he says? Has anyone else on the board had any kind of increased sensitivity caused by desens?
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Nightingale

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 09:34:21 PM »
Really sorry to hear this Egordon.  I read your signiature, are you taking the "kurtosis" vitamin regimen (b6 and stuff)?

Turmeric and Rosemary 30-45 minutes before orgasm for anti-inflammatory and immune support has helped me a lot. Faster and easier than niacin approach.

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 12:17:57 AM »
Hey Nightingale,

I appreciate it. I already feel a lot better than i did on Sunday and i'm hoping that it's an indication that my symptoms aren't permanent. I talked to my doctor today and he seemed to think that they just moved me up the dilution scale too quickly, and that i'm still reacting to my last injection. (But it's already been 8 days!) I was prescribed some prednisone and told to lay off of the desens until i start to feel better. Hopefully that'll happen soon.

And, yeah, I (loosely) follow kurtosis's regimen. I don't take multivitamins, though, because I found that taking niacin daily forced me to take super-doses pre-O. Instead I take all the different B-vitamins individually.
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Ccconfucius

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 10:39:55 AM »
ergodon you should dial back to level that was not given you pois.
I think you accelerated to quickly, it took me eight months to get to 1;10 and that is with getting my shots 2 times a week.   

I did get this  same reaction reaction a couple of times when i increased dosage but mine only lasted the day.

Vandemolen

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 07:46:57 PM »
Yes I think you are going to fast. I reached 1:10 after more than one year. And my programm was faster than the patients in dr. Waldingers last research.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 07:13:05 PM »
Hey Guys,

I don't know if people are following this thread but after much consideration and consultation with my doctor I've got the problems that I was having figured out. It seems, as some of you suggested, I was just going too fast. This occurred because despite my medical team (and myself) took my lack of local/superficial reactions to mean that we could always go up a dilution. (As i've stated elsewhere, I'm one of those posters who only tested positive for POIS at a very low dilution (1:10) and didn't react at the site of injection upon receiving ANY of my shots.) But despite the fact that  I wasn't locally reacting to my shots, they were producing (mostly minor) symptoms for me. These symptoms (and my body's general reaction to each dilution) went unnoticed because I would eliminate them using Celebrex after every shot. But as I climbed towards the lower dilutions, the reactions of my immune system became too strong and Celebrex ultimately became ineffective.

Anyways, I've made a full recovery. My doc prescribed me some prednisone and I felt completely fine within about two days.  This week my doctor took my desens back 4 weeks (to about 1:100), and I refrained from taking Celebrex immediately after shots so that I could get a better idea of my reactions. My response to the shots this time was much improved -- there was no 7 days of symptoms this time -- but I still had Celebrex-resistant symptoms for about 1 day. I think I'm going to ask my doctor to scale my treatment back another 4 weeks, and try to get to the point that my shots don't give me super POIS.

TL;DR: Sorry for freaking everyone out -- i'm fine. We tried to move through desens too quickly because my body doesn't react at the site of injection.
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Ccconfucius

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2012, 08:08:43 PM »
Hey Guys,

I don't know if people are following this thread but after much consideration and consultation with my doctor I've got the problems that I was having figured out. It seems, as some of you suggested, I was just going too fast. This occurred because despite my medical team (and myself) took my lack of local/superficial reactions to mean that we could always go up a dilution. (As i've stated elsewhere, I'm one of those posters who only tested positive for POIS at a very low dilution (1:10) and didn't react at the site of injection upon receiving ANY of my shots.) But despite the fact that  I wasn't locally reacting to my shots, they were producing (mostly minor) symptoms for me. These symptoms (and my body's general reaction to each dilution) went unnoticed because I would eliminate them using Celebrex after every shot. But as I climbed towards the lower dilutions, the reactions of my immune system became too strong and Celebrex ultimately became ineffective.

Anyways, I've made a full recovery. My doc prescribed me some prednisone and I felt completely fine within about two days.  This week my doctor took my desens back 4 weeks (to about 1:100), and I refrained from taking Celebrex immediately after shots so that I could get a better idea of my reactions. My response to the shots this time was much improved -- there was no 7 days of symptoms this time -- but I still had Celebrex-resistant symptoms for about 1 day. I think I'm going to ask my doctor to scale my treatment back another 4 weeks, and try to get to the point that my shots don't give me super POIS.

TL;DR: Sorry for freaking everyone out -- i'm fine. We tried to move through desens too quickly because my body doesn't react at the site of injection.

that is good to hear. other than pois symptoms you were probably  increasing your chance for anaphylxis reaction.

rock27

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 01:34:15 PM »
Egordon,
you scared the hell out of me!
I am glad you were "just" going to fast on concentrations.

Anyway, I am very curious now how your doctor determines the next concentration.
Do you know this?
- Does he look at the spot at injection site?
- Or does he do an intradermal test again to see the spot?

jotape_chile

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 12:05:26 PM »
Hi Egordon,

Happy to see this thread.

After every shot I take in my desensitization treatment Ii feel the same POIS as if I had had an O, just a couple of hours later (for the rest of the day and the next).
I will give it a try with CELEBREX, as you say it worked for you for a while.

I am kind of tired of trying different things and expecting them to work (and failing). My faith in this desensitization plan has lowered, but is the only thing I can rely.
I hat knowing I will have POIS after a shot, so if CELEBREZ can help a bit, it would be nice.

Egordon... how do you take this medicine? Immediately after the shot?

Best regards,

Juan Pablo
JP

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 12:29:21 PM »
I'm so glad you're going to give it a try! Celebrex has been helping me tons for about 6 months now, and i've long been recommending it to others on the board. You're going to need a prescription but since your doctor subscribes to the autoimmune hypothesis (as he's giving you shots), s/he'll be comfortable with the idea that inflammation is being caused by your disorder and it shouldn't be tough to get him/her to prescribe. Just tell him some other people have had success with it. 

I usually take one 200mg pill about an hr after either getting my shots or having an orgasm. It usually takes effect about an hr after that and, not long after, all my symptoms are gone. Because you're not as far along in your desens treatment as I am, you may have to take another pill 14-18 hours later, as your symptoms may return in a diminished way. (I had to take 2 pills when I first started getting shots. Because I got my shots in the morning, I'd usually take one in the morning and the next right before bed.) But after that second pill, you should have complete relief.

Best of luck! And please let us know how it works out! I'd really like it if more people on the board learned the benefits of NSAIDS.

-egordon
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 12:40:22 PM »
One thing you should note, though, JP. Is that my symptoms are primarily cognitive. So, although Celebrex works like gangbusters for me, I guess we don't really know how it's going to work for you. It should be equally effective, but we just don't know enough about the disorder to say with any certainty that it will.
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 01:45:56 PM »
Egordon,
you scared the hell out of me!
I am glad you were "just" going to fast on concentrations.

Anyway, I am very curious now how your doctor determines the next concentration.
Do you know this?
- Does he look at the spot at injection site?
- Or does he do an intradermal test again to see the spot?


Sorry about that Rock27!

How are we going to proceed with my desens? Incredibly carefully. As I don't react locally, we're just going to have to decide to go up a dilution based on how bad my symptoms are (in relation to the last shot that i got). I'm just going to have to refrain from taking Celebrex immediately after my shot, so that I have some time to gauge how bad i'm feeling. And initially, I'm probably going to suggest going up a dilution unless i get Celebrex-resistant symptoms. We'll see whether or not this works. Hopefully, my doctor and I can figure out a system to be used by others that similarly fail to have local reactions.
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

demografx

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 02:20:11 PM »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2012, 04:02:05 PM »

Our POIS Medical Research Funding Progress!


10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 08:49:26 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 10:36:49 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

FloppyBanana

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Re: Desensitization Downsides
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2013, 12:57:29 PM »
Hi Egordon,

Happy to see this thread.

After every shot I take in my desensitization treatment Ii feel the same POIS as if I had had an O, just a couple of hours later (for the rest of the day and the next).
I will give it a try with CELEBREX, as you say it worked for you for a while.

I am kind of tired of trying different things and expecting them to work (and failing). My faith in this desensitization plan has lowered, but is the only thing I can rely.
I hat knowing I will have POIS after a shot, so if CELEBREZ can help a bit, it would be nice.

Egordon... how do you take this medicine? Immediately after the shot?

Best regards,

Juan Pablo
JP

JP,
I don't understand how you can say that having a desens jab feels like same as having POIS from an O. In order to provide the sample agent for the jab you would need to O, or do you have your semen frozen then defrosted for the jab?
FB
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.