Author Topic: Free Flow Discussion about POIS  (Read 1013115 times)

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1800 on: November 09, 2016, 10:35:05 AM »
Quantum, do you think that the auto-immune theory is compatible with my effective personal choice of TRT treatment?

Yes, absolutely, because "testosterone deficiency has been linked with autoimmune disease and an increase in inflammatory markers, such as C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor, and interleukin-6 (IL-6). " - see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27325124

A characteristic of auto-immune is that immune markers are higher than normal, meaning the immune system is too active, and so active that it starts to make "mistakes" on the choice of its target and react on antigen that are normal "self" antigen of your own body.  Normally, the immune system react only to non-self antigens from invading virus or bacteria, or to modified and abnormal self-antigens like when there is a cancerous mutation in one of your own cells.

So, if you have low testosterone and you raise testosterone back to normal levels through TRT, your pro-inflammatory cytokines markers like those mentioned above ( CRP, TNF-alpha, IL-6,...) will go down.  I think that this is what is happening with your TRT treatment.  Did you ever have those immune markers tested, before and after TRT ?

But there are other reasons than low testosterone causing higher than normal immune markers, so a POIS sufferer with already normal testosterone level will not be relieved by TRT - you have to find what is raising these pro-inflammatory markers, in each, specific case. That's part of the complexity of autoimmune diseases - and of POIS.


Auto-immune response comes from T-cells, not B-cells ( 2 different types of immune cells).  It is interesting to note that testosterone will lower T-cells much more than B-cells ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27465811 , see in the "Discussion section").  It's in line with TRT being beneficial for the control of autoimmune disorders.

TRT is a relatively non-toxic way to lower autoimmunity.  Many drugs, called immunosuppressants, used for the treatment of autoimmune diseases are far more toxic than that.  Oral corticosteroids, like prednisone or dexamethasone, are often used in order to control flares in autoimmune diseases, because they lower the immunity, and are a form of immunosuppressants ( I recently read on the NSF forum a case of POIS relief with dexamethasone, as a matter of fact).

There are many unknowns about autoimmune diseases, but much research is done in this field today, so we will likely benefit from this.





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demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1801 on: November 09, 2016, 11:56:35 AM »
Fascinating! I'm cross posting @ Testosterone thread.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Limitbreaker

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1802 on: November 09, 2016, 05:11:59 PM »
Does anyone else get POIS from just sex, without orgasm? I've recently came across study that you've got here (Dr Komisaruk's) that says about POIS symptoms appearing even without orgasm.

I think I recently had that with my GF, she'd have orgasm but I wouldn't even be close (as I was during break), and after sex I had flu eyes etc., the next day the fatigue and in the evening another sex, again without orgasm and again I'd become mentally and physically tired. What the actual f...?

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1803 on: November 09, 2016, 07:52:20 PM »
Does anyone else get POIS from just sex, without orgasm? I've recently came across study that you've got here (Dr Komisaruk's) that says about POIS symptoms appearing even without orgasm.

I think I recently had that with my GF, she'd have orgasm but I wouldn't even be close (as I was during break), and after sex I had flu eyes etc., the next day the fatigue and in the evening another sex, again without orgasm and again I'd become mentally and physically tired. What the actual f...?

Some members got POIS symptoms just from arousal, and some don't ( luckily, i don't).   For those like you who do have symptoms, it may be linked to pre-cum fluid.   I remember a member sharing he has some symptoms just to look at an attractive girl.

I suppose that when it happens, you have less severe symptoms and it lasts less long that after O ?
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demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1804 on: November 09, 2016, 11:34:39 PM »
Quantum, do you think that the auto-immune theory is compatible with my effective personal choice of TRT treatment?
Quantum said yes. Now I am guessing that the vagus nerve & auto-immune would intersect at some point...
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Limitbreaker

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1805 on: November 10, 2016, 05:36:54 AM »
Quantum, yes, less severe and shorter. Thanks to coming to this forum I've began questioning physical cause of my POIS and I am leaning towards that it's psychological and physical at the same time - I seem to have some gut inflammation. I'll work on both layers simultaneously and will be cured.

I seem to have some issue with women's attractiveness after I've had a bad trip on a research chemical psychedelic 2 years ago and that might be connected. It gives me pain to notice my girlfriend's attractiveness and that I am aroused. Therefore there could be some emotional issue underlying. This is also caused by POIS (or is POIS caused by the issue? That's the very same thing!), because I feel like I cannot have a release to my desire without feeling like shit afterwards. Regardless, I'm gonna keep working on it with my psychotherapist.

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1806 on: November 10, 2016, 07:58:26 AM »
Quantum, do you think that the auto-immune theory is compatible with my effective personal choice of TRT treatment?
Quantum said yes. Now I am guessing that the vagus nerve & auto-immune would intersect at some point...

Well, it is only my opinion, Demo, but I think this point where it all links is systemic inflammatory response, which is inititated by the autoimmune reaction.  The "smart" vagus nerve response, like Dr Komisaruk calls it, lowers the inflammatory response on a systemic level.  All those POIS symptoms seems to be linked to a systemic inflammatory response, so preventing, controlling and lowering a systemic inflammatory response will help relieve POIS.

The immune system is so complex, there are many ways to trigger inflammation, even stressful thoughts.  All these many factors that can contribute to inflammation are additive.  Even if there is probably one common antigen in the prostatic fluid or seminal gland that really kick start the POIS immune overreaction, all other contributing factors can aggravate the ongoing immune response.  For example, many POISers have noted that eating carbs will worsen their symptoms - these unhealthy foods will worsen an already ongoing inflammatory response.

I hope there will be studies that will measure markers of inflammation before and during POIS, and show what markers are distinctive for a POIS attack.  Then it would be more than a hypothesis.
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Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1807 on: November 10, 2016, 08:11:04 AM »
Quantum, yes, less severe and shorter. Thanks to coming to this forum I've began questioning physical cause of my POIS and I am leaning towards that it's psychological and physical at the same time - I seem to have some gut inflammation. I'll work on both layers simultaneously and will be cured.

I seem to have some issue with women's attractiveness after I've had a bad trip on a research chemical psychedelic 2 years ago and that might be connected. It gives me pain to notice my girlfriend's attractiveness and that I am aroused. Therefore there could be some emotional issue underlying. This is also caused by POIS (or is POIS caused by the issue? That's the very same thing!), because I feel like I cannot have a release to my desire without feeling like shit afterwards. Regardless, I'm gonna keep working on it with my psychotherapist.

Hi Limitbreaker,

I also think that management of negative emotions, be they conscious or unconscious, is important as well.  As I said in my post just above, thoughts generating stress lead to inflammation in the body, so that's not good for POIS.   Like mentioned in my method, psychotherapy, yoga, meditation, are all part of my anti-POIS method.  By attacking POIS on all fronts, it can only help.
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1808 on: November 10, 2016, 11:56:39 PM »


When an Orgasm Can Destroy Your Life

For men with the rare disorder Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, orgasms can lead to days of physical and psychological misery




The writer interviewed forum POISers and did his homework on POIS studies.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Steven Blum wrote:

Ah they changed their site! It's here:

https://melmagazine.com/these-guys-will-do-anything-to-avoid-coming-279fc4eb1a8b?source=linkShare-898c3474bb43-1478806423

Glad to hear people like it. :)

On Thursday, November 10, 2016, demo wrote:
Hi Steven,

The link to your POIS article is not working.

Recent review @ forum "Best article ever" [from CertainlyPOIS2]

Regards,
demo
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:07:25 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Rare

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1809 on: November 11, 2016, 10:42:53 AM »
Hi all Members,

I am a 47 years old man with good health except in POIS period.
I discovered POISCenter by google 4 months ago. It was a great surprise and relief despite everything.
Thanks to all those who has contributed to this forum and new people joining us in future (I hope it will be very short).

I had some conviction that the erection was behind my excessive fatigue when I was 22 years old. However, I never could believe that.  Especially when I asked doctors about relation between fatigue and Orgasm, and non one has paid attention to my talk.

Since this date, I frequently went to Otorhinolaryngology Doctors because of the throat irritation, which was the most visible POIS symptom.  In addition, I visit Gastroenterologist Doctors… and did many blood analyses.

After have married, POIS symptoms becomes more serious because of multiple Orgasm on the same week. I then have some respiration problems that Doctor explain by humid climate allergy. So I took for one year or more, a corticoid drugs (Becotide).

After marriage, I become more and more convinced that orgasm is behind my illness and not any other disease that I have been looking for.

My POIS symptoms are physical and mental. In cold weather, physical symptoms are more serious. Sometimes I am obliged to lie down in bed for two consecutive days.

Generally, I feel POIS Symptoms on the next day of Orgasm, or the same day if E is in the morning.

Here is a list  of some of POIS Symptoms (not all of them) : Eyes burning, Fatigue, Brain Fog  or/and  headache, poor concentration, cranial skin tension , sweating, digestion problem,  joins pain, Fever, flu-like, sore throat, skin pain. The back pain is stuck to me all the time, which I used to explain by stress.
Also, Incoherent speech and memory problems, Anxiety, Demotivation…  You know of course the rest of symptoms...

Now I am in the first phase of trying treatment suggested by POISCenter member.

I feel that fenugreek and garlic has some improvement in my relief.  I will update this paragraph shortly when I am sure about it.

All those POIS symptoms nearly disappears after one week of “peace”, no orgasm.

Thank you to have patience to read my broken English. It’s my second foreign language after French.


Below some treatments, I used to have to relieve my symptoms. The most certain is to wait the calm after the POIS “Storm”.


Fatigue --> Sleep as much as possible after Orgasm. Avoid late night Orgasm or   morning Orgasm. Try to have a maximum sexual sensation before orgasm.
Sore throat and digestion problems --> Cactus honey, one tablespoon at night.
Brain Fog --> have a rest as much as possible, avoid coffee with sugar
Memory --> Write note each time I remember something I have to do. Keep things, I frequently need or use, in the same place, especially car keys. :)
Difficulty pronunciation of letters using tongue! Like R --> Cactus Honey.
Incoherent speech --> Keep quiet in meeting! Alternatively, prepare my words carefully before I engage any conversation. Write emails and correct them many times. Never send them immediately.
Vertigo   --> “Toupet Maneuver”, this is very rare, it happened to me just three times in the last five years. It was in a week when I had multiple orgasms in two consecutive days.

When I am in a stress-free psychic state, usually on vacation outside  city or country, the POIS symptoms are quite reduced to the point that I ask myself, is it  POIS in relation to the climate of the city where I live! It is certain from my long experience; POIS symptoms are less severe in cities with dry climate.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:32:32 PM by Rare »

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1810 on: November 11, 2016, 12:59:51 PM »
When an Orgasm Can Destroy Your Life

For men with the rare disorder Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, orgasms can lead to days of physical and psychological misery




The writer interviewed forum POISers and did his homework on POIS studies.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Steven Blum wrote:

Ah they changed their site! It's here:

https://melmagazine.com/these-guys-will-do-anything-to-avoid-coming-279fc4eb1a8b?source=linkShare-898c3474bb43-1478806423

Glad to hear people like it. :)

On Thursday, November 10, 2016, demo wrote:
Hi Steven,

The link to your POIS article is not working.

Recent review @ forum "Best article ever" [from CertainlyPOIS2]

Regards,
demo


Thanks for making us aware of the new link, Demo !
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1811 on: November 11, 2016, 01:01:00 PM »
Hi all Members,

I am a 47 years old man with good health except in POIS period.
I discovered POISCenter by google 4 months ago. It was a great surprise and relief despite everything.
Thanks to all those who has contributed to this forum and new people joining us in future (I hope it will be very short).

I had some conviction that the erection was behind my excessive fatigue when I was 22 years old. However, I never could believe that.  Especially when I asked doctors about relation between fatigue and Orgasm, and non one has paid attention to my talk.

Since this date, I frequently went to Otorhinolaryngology Doctors because of the throat irritation, which was the most visible POIS symptom.  In addition, I visit Gastroenterologist Doctors… and did many blood analyses.

After have married, POIS symptoms becomes more serious because of multiple Orgasm on the same week. I then have some respiration problems that Doctor explain by humid climate allergy. So I took for one year or more, a corticoid drugs (Becotide).

After marriage, I become more and more convinced that orgasm is behind my illness and not any other disease that I have been looking for.

My POIS symptoms are physical and mental. In cold weather, physical symptoms are more serious. Sometimes I am obliged to lie down in bed for two consecutive days.

Generally, I feel POIS Symptoms on the next day of Orgasm, or the same day if E is in the morning.

Here is a list  of some of POIS Symptoms (not all of them) : Eyes burning, Fatigue, Brain Fog  or/and  headache, poor concentration, cranial skin tension , sweating, digestion problem,  joins pain, Fever, flu-like, sore throat, skin pain. The back pain is stuck to me all the time, which I used to explain by stress.
Also, Incoherent speech and memory problems, Anxiety, Demotivation…  You know of course the rest of symptoms...

Now I am in the first phase of trying treatment suggested by POISCenter member.

I feel that fenugreek and garlic has some improvement in my relief.  I will update this paragraph shortly when I am sure about it.

All those POIS symptoms nearly disappears after one week of “peace”, no orgasm.

Thank you to have patience to read my broken English. It’s my second foreign language after French.


Below some treatments, I used to have to relieve my symptoms. The most certain is to wait the calm after the POIS “Storm”.


Fatigue --> Sleep as much as possible after Orgasm. Avoid late night Orgasm or   morning Orgasm. Try to have a maximum sexual sensation before orgasm.
Sore throat and digestion problems --> Cactus honey, one tablespoon at night.
Brain Fog --> have a rest as much as possible, avoid coffee with sugar
Memory --> Write note each time I remember something I have to do. Keep things, I frequently need or use, in the same place, especially car keys. :)
Difficulty pronunciation of letters using tongue! Like R --> Cactus Honey.
Incoherent speech --> Keep quiet in meeting! Alternatively, prepare my words carefully before I engage any conversation. Write emails and correct them many times. Never send them immediately.
Vertigo   --> “Toupet Maneuver”, this is very rare, it happened to me just three times in the last five years. It was in a week when I had multiple orgasms in two consecutive days.

When I am in a stress-free psychic state, usually on vacation outside  city or country, the POIS symptoms are quite reduced to the point that I ask myself, is it  POIS in relation to the climate of the city where I live! It is certain from my long experience; POIS symptoms are less severe in cities with dry climate.

Welcome to the forum, Rare ! I hope you will find significant relief form the information you find here!
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Daveman

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1812 on: November 12, 2016, 04:38:53 AM »
Hi everyone.  I have received an answer from Dr Osur to the e-mail I have sent to him just yesterday.  Here is his answer:

Quote from: Dr Osur
Dear Quantum,
Thank you for your mail. I am among the few doctors in Africa that have taken an interest in sexual health so that is why I am familiar with POIS.
Because the etiology of POIS is not clear, what we do now is to treat symptoms. Either Bupropion or Tramadol because of their dopaminergic effect do help although not all individuals may respond the same way. Have you tried them out?
JO


I have sent him a reply summarizing the reports found on the forum from those who have tried one of these two therapeutic alternatives ( I have not tried them myself).  Results have been mixed with bupropion.  Far less reports for tramadol, mostly positive, but not all.

Since he seems to be in favor of the role of dopamine in POIS pathophysiology, I asked him how he came to this view.

I also have thanked him for his interest and knowledge about POIS.   


It's great to see that there is at least one more doctor in the world that is aware of POIS and has even some relief options to offer !   :)

I hope Dr. Osur comes by the forum. I think it would be interesting for him to see other treatments that have helped, some of which go beyond just treatments of symptoms.

In the end of course, we do not have any cures, and most of what we do treats more symptoms than anything, but many treatments (like niacin) seem to "alter" the POIS mechanism producing a sort of prevention rather than alleviation.

What he sees here, may help his insights into the problem.

Tramadol is a fairly strong analgesic isn't it?
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1813 on: November 12, 2016, 10:59:51 AM »
When an Orgasm Can Destroy Your Life

For men with the rare disorder Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, orgasms can lead to days of physical and psychological misery




The writer interviewed forum POISers and did his homework on POIS studies.


On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Steven Blum wrote:

Ah they changed their site! It's here:

https://melmagazine.com/these-guys-will-do-anything-to-avoid-coming-279fc4eb1a8b?source=linkShare-898c3474bb43-1478806423

Glad to hear people like it. :)

On Thursday, November 10, 2016, demo wrote:
Hi Steven,

The link to your POIS article is not working.

Recent review @ forum "Best article ever" [from CertainlyPOIS2]

Regards,
demo


Thanks for making us aware of the new link, Demo !

Quantum, thank YOU for making this possible!

I think it should be featured on Welcome Page. Any suggestions where??
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1814 on: November 12, 2016, 12:16:02 PM »


Tramadol is a fairly strong analgesic isn't it?


Yes, it is, by binding opioids receptors, as it is a relative of narcotic drugs. It also inhibits the reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrin, like many anti-depressants, so it definitively acts in the brain.  And it also have some NMDA receptors blocking properties.   All these combined are good for POIS ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol


At high doses, there are risks of severe convulsions, and there are many other serious side effects possible as well, so it is available on prescription only.

You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1815 on: November 13, 2016, 02:25:16 PM »
Partial screenshot showing Blum & Quantum, et al, effort on our Welcome Page (link below):



http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg19710#msg19710
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1816 on: November 14, 2016, 09:55:16 AM »
Not sure if this warrants a thread of it's own, caffeine: my system reacts to it like an instant allergy  -- I sneeze -- similar to my immediate [often sneezy] reaction with POIS.

Both POIS-onset and caffeine feel like an allergic reaction. The caffeine reaction is over quickly, but POIS - as you know - is over in days, not minutes.

And the sneezy reaction @ POIS-onset doesn't last long as well. The other symptoms, though, rage on!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 05:17:39 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1817 on: November 14, 2016, 08:10:49 PM »
Not sure if this warrants a thread of it's own, caffeine: my system reacts to it like an instant allergy  -- I sneeze -- similar to my immediate [often sneezy] reaction with POIS.

Both POIS-onset and caffeine feel like an allergic reaction. The caffeine reaction is over quickly, but POIS - as you know - is over in days, not minutes.

And the sneezy reaction @ POIS-onset doesn't last long as well. The other symptoms, though, rage on!

It could be interesting, some POISers have mentionned particular reaction to caffeine, on this forum.

For me, I do not tolerate caffeine at all.  It hurts my stomach, and its stimulating effect causes me way too much anxiety.  I have totally eliminated it from my diet a long time ago, like 25 years ago.

Do you also sneeze when drinking other hot beverages  or eating hot soups ? It could be a vasomotor reaction to the temperature change.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 08:14:08 PM by Quantum »
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demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1818 on: November 14, 2016, 09:56:56 PM »
Yes I do sneeze allergically to several things. Now that u mention it I'll keep an eye on what it is that triggers a sneeze. Ah-chooooooooo!!


« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 10:00:36 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1819 on: November 15, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
Yes I do sneeze allergically to several things. Now that u mention it I'll keep an eye on what it is that triggers a sneeze. Ah-chooooooooo!!


"In vasomotor rhinitis,[14][15] certain nonspecific stimuli, including changes in environment (temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, or weather), airborne irritants (odors, fumes), dietary factors (spicy food, alcohol), sexual arousal, exercise,[16] and emotional factors trigger rhinitis.[17]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis#Nonallergic_rhinitis
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259