Author Topic: Developed POIS after antibiotic use  (Read 16312 times)

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #270 on: July 31, 2019, 03:04:50 PM »
These things can be tested tomorrow. I didn't get any email back from the clinical trial lab. I've sent another email to them, I'm getting frustrated here. I want access to more parameters. If I get the green light we can discuss which parameters are of interest and start crowdfunding. If I don't get the green light there are still interesting parameters left to choose from like the above mentioned.

Nas

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #271 on: July 31, 2019, 03:28:07 PM »
These things can be tested tomorrow. I didn't get any email back from the clinical trial lab. I've sent another email to them, I'm getting frustrated here. I want access to more parameters. If I get the green light we can discuss which parameters are of interest and start crowdfunding. If I don't get the green light there are still interesting parameters left to choose from like the above mentioned.
Maybe we can start a new crowd fund but this time testing the brain chemistry of POIS?

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #272 on: July 31, 2019, 10:50:06 PM »
I ended up ordering some GABA powder (Now brand) as it sounds like that is more effective at suppressing dreams than the l-tryptophan.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #273 on: August 03, 2019, 08:07:54 PM »
I'm curious if any has done hair mineral analysis, I did one by Trace Elements inc. I had some doubts about the accuracy of hair mineral tests but the deficiencies are exactly the same as my expensive blood tests.

At the time of the test, I had low Copper and Manganese. Both of these minerals are used in the body to produce antioxidant enzymes called Superoxide Dismutase (SOD). I already know from an expensive antioxidant test I did that my superoxide enzyme is quite elevated suggesting I have a lot of oxidative stress in my body and perhaps mitochondrial dsyfunction.

Has anyone else done hair mineral analysis and found similar deficiencies in copper, zinc or manganese?
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Muon

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #274 on: August 04, 2019, 05:20:53 AM »
I already know from an expensive antioxidant test I did that my superoxide enzyme is quite elevated suggesting I have a lot of oxidative stress in my body and perhaps mitochondrial dsyfunction.

Has anyone else done hair mineral analysis and found similar deficiencies in copper, zinc or manganese?
No but my mitochondrial function has been checked which was fine.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #275 on: August 05, 2019, 05:08:22 PM »
Here's my latest list of supplements that I think have an impact on my condition:

1. BB536 Probiotic - I know this has some positive effect on my health, I think it boosts good gut bacteria.

2. Allicin Max (Garlic Supplement) - It feels like this one fights some kind of systemic overgrowth in my body, whether fungal, viral or bacterial.

3. L-Arginine - I think this does something positive at certain times, it may need to be taken with a tiny amount of L-Lysine. L-Arginine boosts Nitric Oxide and is supposedly good for fighting candida albicans infections.

4. Zinc Picolinate - I'm still testing this one, it may clear my skin. My working theory is it boosts the immune system and clears bacterial overgrowth of the skin. People often use zinc to treat acne rather than drugs like Accutane that are known to damage the body.

I had stopped taking the Allicin Max for a few weeks because I didn't feel like it was helping anymore. When I started again today, I had a heavy heartbeat for 2 hours and then I suddenly felt better than I have in a few weeks.

I did the same thing with the BB536 probiotic, I stopped for nearly a month. When I started taking the BB536, the next morning I was coughing up phlegm which from experience feels like my body clearing something.

These strange reactions to Allicin Max and BB536 only happen for the first 1 or 2 days so it really does seem like there is some systemic infection(s) that needs to be kept at bay. I am going to try and find some other supplements that might help and build some kind of artificial immune system since mine really doesn't work properly.

I have already tried Oregano Oil and feel that gave me a bad reaction, it felt like it was worsening whatever overgrowth I have. Oregano Oil does carry warnings that it can kill good bacteria so I guess I should avoid it in future.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #276 on: August 11, 2019, 08:42:36 PM »
I'm aiming to take an extended break from posting on this forum. My problems are somewhat more complicated than POIS due to the antibiotics I took.

My protocol for the next few months is going to include the following:

1. Some combination of L-Arginine and L-Lysine: I haven't worked out the ideal dose yet. I need to be careful not to damage my kidneys with too many supplements.

2. BB536 Probiotic: I have some expensive high strength probiotics that I get from Japan, I've added images of the new (black box) and old (blue box) packaging below. I will be taking one sachet (50 billion cfu) per day for a few months.




3. Miscellaneous Supplements: I will probably rotate some supplements like Allicin Max (Garlic pills), a child multivitamin and may experiment with some fruit powders for their antioxidant bioflavonoid properties. I have a few other probiotics that I may use in combination with the BB536 such as L. Reuteri (Biogaia), L. Plantarum 299v (Jarrow Ideal Bowel Support) and L. Acidophilus (Lindens Pro Bio Live Max).

I still believe the gut has a lot to do with my issues. I know from testing my antioxidant enzymes that I have high levels of oxidative stress in my body which seems to manifest as connective tissue damage (spontaneous bruising, slight muscle tears & burning nerve sensations) and maybe other things like fatigue, poor sleep and low mood. When the oxidative stress was very high, I would get pain in my neck/ear cartilage and could feel that the cartilage was missing in these areas. After months of recurring neck pain, the hyoid bone in my neck actually started to come loose and now occasionally clicks out of place when I swallow food or water. During this horrible period, I discovered that taking the probiotic BB536 at 2 billion strength seemed to bring me instantly out of this state whereas taking Bacillus "spore probiotics" would put me back in that bad state. I bought a month's worth of this BB536 probiotic at high strength (50 billion daily) and took it intermittently over the next 5 months. During this period, my health improved significantly but I cannot be certain that this probiotic was the cause.

Long story short, I am going to be concentrating on taking 50 billion per day of this BB536 probiotic for probably 4 months and then I will report back with my findings. I want to see if it is possible to recover my health to levels I haven't seen in 20 years just by targeting gut health.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

b_jim

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #277 on: August 12, 2019, 08:50:54 AM »
It's not sure probiotics can influence microbotia.
There are pro and cons.


The first argument was stomach acid kill most of bacterias.
But some studies show some bacterias have a good resistance and a part of them (1% to 20% ?) can cross the stomach alive.
And of course, you can use gastro-resistant caps.

The second was even if you take billions of bacterias it"s few compared to the whole microbiota.
And even if you can influence it's a temporary effect. Microbiota keep its homeostasis.
The real way to make a real change is microbiota transplantation.
But it's a very recent science and under severe controle.
Unbalanced microbiota could lead to disease or death.

So, I 'm not sure these complements are usefull. Maybe, maybe not. Some doctors use the word "psychobiotics" so the influence migh be real.
But the easy way to have a good microbiota is to eat tons of organics fruit, vegetables and plants. Nature, cooked, sprouted, lacto-fermented...

Taurine = Anti-Pois

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #278 on: August 12, 2019, 05:46:49 PM »
Hi b_jim,

I have been doing a lot research on gut bacteria. From what I've read, the gut ecosystem is fully developed by the age of 4 years old and the bacterial strains are then not easily changed from that point.

I guarantee you that most probiotics reach the gut intact, I can feel the effects on the day after I take them. The real question is whether the supplement has been stored badly by the seller and the bacteria have died. The strain of bacteria is also very important, people think buying a probiotic with 30 strains is better than a single strain product but those 30 strains might be taken from a pig's gut and not be very effective in humans or those strains could not be well studied or they might interfere with each other. The BB536 I take is from a human gut, it was compared alongside a number of other human bacteria and found to have the best beneficial properties for human health.

I did a lot of research into microbiota transplantation (FMT), it seems like the effects for that might be temporary. I wrote a list of issues I have with FMT in this thread a while ago, there's a lot of problems they need to fix before I would ever try it.

The psychobiotics, as I understand it, refers to probiotics that can improve mood. I have a few probiotics that claim to improve mood called "Zenflore" and "Florassist Mood", they seem to all be strains of Bifidobacterium Longum. My BB536 probiotic is also a strain of B. Longum and seems to help my mood. I do think there is a link between gut dysbiosis and mental disorders like depression.

My experience of probiotics is that they can shift your bacteria in a positive direction but they do not colonise the gut permanently so they need to be supplemented regularly, the main difficulty is finding one that is effective for your particular gut. I have taken prebiotics like FOS, GOS and inulin but it feels like these feed the bad bacteria too. I also react badly to fermented foods and I think this may be because of the large amounts of fungi they contain, it is suggested that anyone with SIBO should avoid fermented foods.

To put my experiences simply, I have been seriously ill and tried everything possible to improve my gut (excluding FMT). Finding an effective single-strain probiotic like BB536 appears to have gradually corrected my gut imbalance and I will probably have to take it for life, which is fine by me despite the cost. I think I was on the very extreme of gut dysbiosis, pretty much anything I consumed would trigger severe issues resembling autoimmune disease and I suppose that is because I don't have much good bacteria left. I seemed to tolerate BB536 so I kept upping my dosage and now I can eat most foods. I still have trouble with fermented foods, possibly because they contain large amounts of bacteria and yeast which undermines the effects of the BB536.

When the providers of FMT fix the many issues with the procedure, I will gladly consider trying it. I still get the impression that the human gut doesn't easily allow new strains to colonise permanently so maybe the effects of FMT wear off after 2 months. I think in the future they will just put the FMT bacteria in a capsule and people will take it everyday like a multivitamin, it will be a 1000 strain probiotic. The other future technology with hopefully be Human Milk Oligosaccharides, these are the natural prebiotics found in human breast milk that help babies to build a gut ecosystem.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

b_jim

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #279 on: August 18, 2019, 10:10:07 AM »
I'm happy if it works for you. Keep us informed next months.  8)
Taurine = Anti-Pois

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #280 on: September 08, 2019, 02:21:53 PM »
Simon I tried L argigine maybe i felt good the first few times for a few hours but then it stopped, it also started making me fatigued especially after showers and fatigue is never one of my usual symptoms, it also made me feel a bit anxious and foggy after a while

I have started drinking much more water than I was, before I was still drinking a lot maybe 2-3 litres a day. Now I have increased this quite a bit and started drinking a litre of water in maybe 5 mins. I feel incredible and way less foggy then I ever was honestly this feels better than any supplement I've ever tried. I am aware its not safe to drink more than a litre of water per hour and not more than 3 litres per day so I need to proceed with caution. I have been having a glass of water with Himalayan pink salt to try and balance the sodium after drinking thas much but I feel better without the salt drink lol. Also if I eat a meal which gives me brain fog and drink a litre of water after it quickly and I feel a lot bette than without.

It also feels like im flushing out some fungus bacteria in my stools and also urine with this increased water consumption, I am aware of the dangers of water intoxication if you're worrying about that.

On top of that I'm starting to do high intensity exercise like sprinting and also swimming. Before I was just doing three mile long runs quite fast and this wasn't really helping me at all and also gave me a brain fog and speech problems after the run and daily yoga wasn't helping that much. However I do think Yin yoga is good for POIS. I think short high intensity exercise is the best thing for pois and our brain fog.

I have been trying creatine, l glutamine and ionic zinc and can't really tell if they are helping or not. I've become more skinny than I want to be from a low carb diet so I'm working towards gaining more weight and muscle mass and slowly eating more low glycemic carbs. Also have joined the gym as I want to get into shape and lift weights.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #281 on: September 17, 2019, 07:25:16 PM »
Hi Iwillbeatthis.

When I first took L-Arginine, I limited the dosage to about 250mg a day (Swanson Ajipure Arginine capsules) and around that time I had improvements in some symptoms (like dry eyes) but couldn't make a definite link to the Arginine due to the amount of other things I was taking. I next got a pure powder called "Doctor's Best L-Arginine" which was in the form of Arginine HCL (not a good form of Arginine) and I found it affected my sleep badly so I stopped.

Eventually, I found a product called "Now Sports L-Arginine powder" which is "Free-Form" Arginine (the most usable form of amino acid) and it contained no fillers. I took a large 3000mg dose of the Now Sports powder and the next morning found my worst post-antibiotic symptoms returned like hair falling out and soreness in my ear and neck cartilage. I thought the hair loss might be due to low levels of L-Lysine (this is the amino acid that antagonises Arginine and vice-versa) so I started taking an equal amount of L-Lysine with the L-Arginine.

For years before I took the fateful antibiotic, I had been dealing with chronic fatigue syndrome and strange things like a muscle tear that gets worse after an orgasm (some kind of connective tissue disorder). I found that taking the Arginine/Lysine combination would stop the muscle pain and I think Arginine on its own might actually do the same thing. I have since taken a 3000mg dosage of Arginine again without any Lysine and didn't get the same scary symptoms so I'm thinking maybe the Arginine caused some kind of die-off reaction. When I then took the Arginine on it's own, I tended to wake up heavily fatigued so I added the Lysine again and found that got rid of the heavy fatigue in the mornings.

Today, I decided to try 3000mg of Arginine on its own again and within about 4 hours, I had a racing heartbeat, sinus pain and heavy fatigue (so it seems Lysine might block some of the effects of Arginine). It's amazing how similar this sounds to what you're dealing with. I am going to stop the Lysine and just take Arginine in various doses over the coming days, I need to find out if this really is a die-off reaction.

Regarding the salt, I personally wouldn't consume that since salt is an inflammatory and it can deplete things like calcium. With exercise, when I used to force myself to go cycling, I would stay out for about an hour and generally felt a lot better. I don't think exercise clears a fungal overgrowth though so I stopped.

I've tried the Creatine, Glutamine and Zinc. I'm really not sure that they've helped.

All signs do point to this being a fungal overgrowth. Here's an article that suggests Nitric Oxide kills Candida but that the Candida finds a way to disable the Nitric Oxide:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096203
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905260/

Arginine is one of the best ways to boost Nitric Oxide and perhaps kill off a candida overgrowth. I also have some Colostrum LD that may be equally good at killing candida. The real difficulty is figuring out whether something is a die-off reaction or if it's actually making things worse, that takes so much time.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 07:36:45 PM by Simon66 »
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #282 on: September 17, 2019, 07:27:00 PM »
Interesting Curezone post here, person took antibiotics and had problems with ejaculation. They suspect it is some kind of fungal candida overgrowth:

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2201869#i
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #283 on: October 05, 2019, 12:57:35 PM »
I've been testing my existing supplements. Here's what I've discovered:

BioGaia Protectis Probiotic Baby Drops (L. Reuteri) - This initially caused stinging in my gut which I believe was some pathogen being killed off. I'm now able to take loads of this probiotic without such a reaction. This is the only probiotic that I remember having such a reaction (and I have about 30 different probiotics) so it must be quite unique. This probiotic is apparently good for killing candida.

Sovereign Labs Colostrum LD - This also caused stinging in my gut. In the same way as the BioGaia, I could eventually take as much as I wanted without any reaction. I didn't feel like this supplement helped long-term and it's extremely costly so I've stopped.

Now Sports Arginine Powder and Now Lysine Powder - Balance of these two amino acids seems very important. Taking Arginine on its own fixes my chronic sinus congestion. Taking Lysine on its own has a bad effect. Taking Arginine and Lysine together repairs some connective tissues. I am still trying to find the best combination of these two.

Now Calcium Carbonate - This seems to give me really good energy but eventually I start getting stabbing pain in various parts of my body which I believe to be calcium deposition. The antibiotic I took Ciprofloxacin has been known to screw up calcium channels in the body.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.

Simon66

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Re: Developed POIS after antibiotic use
« Reply #284 on: November 08, 2019, 12:18:39 PM »
I'm still wondering if POIS is a fungal infection, maybe in the testicles. At one point in time, I had bouts of stabbing pain in my left testicle that made it difficult to walk. My symptoms are located in such specific areas of the body that I really do think this is a systemic, lingering infection that the immune system can't touch.

Taking Arginine initially seems to cause a rapid heart beat and some connective tissue pain but only for the first day and then my health starts to improve. Arginine boosts nitric oxide and supposedly kills candida. Arginine is a double-edged sword because it feeds viruses so I can't take it in large doses.

I think good bacteria help prevent such systemic infections and I've nuked my immune balance by taking antibiotics too many times. Some probiotics help and others seem to make things worse. Colostrum LD definitely does something but I think it needs to be taken for several months to get visible benefits.
Disclaimer: Please research all supplements thoroughly and take them at your own risk. I am not responsible for any adverse reaction you may suffer.

Avoid all Fluoroquinolone antibiotics including Ciprofloxacin, Levaquin and Avelox.