What is Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS) and What is it Used for

[FloppyBanana]

I set up this topic to help understand What is Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS) and What is it Used for (not just POIS related) and also hear what peoples experiences have been like with the treatment.

I came across this video which seems quite remarkable. This is a type of VNS devise which is an implanted one, a bit like a pacemaker. It is an invasive form of VNS unlike Transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation (TVNS) (which will be part of the current POIS study). It's a touching sharing from a partner who has the best interest of the individual concerned. Very positive results but also a very noteworthy warning around the red tape we may encounter in getting the device to the people that need it (that's if TVNS will work for POIS). By the way TVNS is currently available is most European countries only for the treatment of Epilepsy, Depression & Pain. The devise will not be provided for any other condition at present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxrpuZTUiAs 

[Pianist]

FloppyBanana. Very interesting article. Thanks for the info))))

[demografx]

Thanks, Floppy, for bringing this to our attention.

[Colm]

I set up this topic to help understand What is Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS) and What is it Used for (not just POIS related) and also hear what peoples experiences have been like with the treatment.

I came across this video which seems quite remarkable. This is a type of VNS devise which is an implanted one, a bit like a pacemaker. It is an invasive form of VNS unlike Transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation (TVNS) (which will part of the current POIS study). It's a touching sharing from a partner who has the best interest of the individual concerned. Very positive results but also a very noteworthy warning around the red tape we may encounter in getting the device to the people that need it (that's if TVNS will work for POIS). By the way TVNS is currently available is most European countries only for the treatment Epilepsy, Depression & Pain. The devise will be not provided for any other condition at present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxrpuZTUiAs

Thanks FB,

Was listening last night to that man. I think he echos what an awful lot of people go through either suffering from depression, Bi Polar and other, and their families / spouses. Really interesting what the stimulation treatment brought to the equation though.

Main thing that got me beyond the deeper depression I used go into, was 10 years of high grade St Johns Wort treatment. Combined with the other lifestyle and wellness strategies I have found useful.

Hopefully Vagus theories will add something else useful, to have a more normal life for us.

[Prancer]

Interesting, TY!

[FloppyBanana]

This article about acupuncture seems to be align with tVNS (electro acupuncture) being used for chronic pain conditions like POIS I assume!

http://www.firsthealthofandover.com/blog/non-needle-auricular-ear-acupuncture-relief-without-needles/

[Prancer]

So I was listening to a science audiocast recently (based in Mountain View, CA) and came across a discussion I found very, very interesting about the vagus nerve and its relation to the immune system. The actual discussion starts at 33:33 so anyone that decides to listen should skip directly to that time.

Direct link to the audio is: http://traffic.libsyn.com/arewealone/BiPiSci14-12-15.mp3 [starts at 33:33]

I normally wouldn't post something so cumbersome, but I found it very good to hear.

[FloppyBanana]

Prancer,

Thanks for sharing that! Very interesting! It seems TNF should be monitored to find inflammation...

FB

[demografx]

So I was listening to a science audiocast recently (based in Mountain View, CA) and came across a discussion I found very, very interesting about the vagus nerve and its relation to the immune system. The actual discussion starts at 33:33 so anyone that decides to listen should skip directly to that time.

Direct link to the audio is: http://traffic.libsyn.com/arewealone/BiPiSci14-12-15.mp3 [starts at 33:33]

I normally wouldn't post something so cumbersome, but I found it very good to hear.

Thank you, Prancer !

[demografx]

Prancer,

Thanks for sharing that! Very interesting! It seems TNF should be monitored to find inflammation...

FB

Try below in Google box (as is, spaces/no spaces)

inflammation site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com

Plus search "inflammation" here at POISCenter (top of page -- left side)

[demografx]

...TVNS is currently available is most European countries only for the treatment Epilepsy, Depression & Pain. The devise will not be provided for any other condition at present...

True, but if it works @ Rutgers (with a $5,000 Europe-only model), we could always approach RadioShack (before they go bankrupt) to modify a cheap knockoff TENS unit for us

[FloppyBanana]

...TVNS is currently available is most European countries only for the treatment Epilepsy, Depression & Pain. The devise will not be provided for any other condition at present...

True, but if it works @ Rutgers (with a $5,000 Europe-only model), we could always approach RadioShack (before they go bankrupt) to modify a cheap knockoff TENS unit for us

The company that makes the tVNS devices has a patent on the ear piece. This earpiece stimulates the symba conch part of the ear. I think the likelihood of the company selling the earpiece without their TENS unit is remote. One of the tVNS studies stimulates the tragus part of the ear. I think it would worth while this forum if we have a small funds aside buy a patent for tragus ear stimulator. Then we wouldn't get ripped off the big med companies! Cerbomed is a joint venture of the world's biggest producer of VNS devices.

Then again if the POIS research is done well it may be worth spending the 5k USD as a one off cost.

[FloppyBanana]

So I was listening to a science audiocast recently (based in Mountain View, CA) and came across a discussion I found very, very interesting about the vagus nerve and its relation to the immune system. The actual discussion starts at 33:33 so anyone that decides to listen should skip directly to that time.

Direct link to the audio is: http://traffic.libsyn.com/arewealone/BiPiSci14-12-15.mp3 [starts at 33:33]

I normally wouldn't post something so cumbersome, but I found it very good to hear.

The study also talks about stimulating the vagus nerve at low frequencies. See Figure 4:  http://www.setpointmedical.com/files/SetPoint_CCFA_2012.pdf

I will try this frequency with my tragus point vagus stimulator TENS unit. 10hz is near the bottom range of my unit. We shall see......

[demografx]

...If the POIS research is done well it may be worth spending the 5k USD as a one off cost.

Yes! And we can always convince clinics/hospitals/urgent care centers to buy one for it's millions of POIS patients!

[Stef]

...If the POIS research is done well it may be worth spending the 5k USD as a one off cost.

Yes! And we can always convince clinics/hospitals/urgent care centers to buy one for it's millions of POIS patients!

Hi All,

Two thoughts --

1) Dr. K's research focus is to determine if abnormal vagus nerve activity is a factor...perhaps the MAIN factor...in causing the symptoms of POIS. The use of the Cerbomed transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulator, which consists of an electrical stimulation unit and a dedicated ear electrode, is something that Dr. K. was somehow able to arrange for the study.  If it works to reduce POIS symptoms, it will be an incredibly wonderful added bonus to this study!  But please keep in mind -- the tVNS device (ear stim and stim unit) isn't the focus of this study.

2) If the Cerbomed tVNS unit works for POIS -- if it clearly diminishes the symptoms of POIS in most, if not all, the tested men affected by POIS symptoms -- Dr. K. will report it/publish it in a major medical journal. That would open the door to FDA approval in the USA (i.e. insurance coverage), and would also open the door for approval within the European Union -- for its use in men with POIS.

Floppy -- I'm always so very impressed with your willingness to try out potential treatments!!

But please, everyone -- the Cerbomed ear stim device used with a generic TENS unit may not work the same way that the Cerbomed electrical stimulation unit works. Settings which might not be available on a TENS unit may be needed. 

Also, each POIS sufferer may need individualized settings/schedules with the electrical unit.

Floppy -- absolutely nothing would be better than to hear that your "experiment" worked wonderfully!!

But if it doesn't, please -- everyone -- try to keep it in perspective. There's so much more to this study than you or I know!

It's of greatest importance to keep in mind that the aim of the study is to determine if abnormal vagus nerve activity is central to POIS. The Cerbomed unit is an added benefit that Dr. K. was able to include in the study.

Best wishes,
Stef

[FloppyBanana]

Thanks Stef

[Stef]

Thanks Stef

You're welcome, Floppy!

[Prancer]

Prancer,

Thanks for sharing that! Very interesting! It seems TNF should be monitored to find inflammation...

FB

You're welcome FloppyBanana...and so great everything is moving forward with the research!

[demografx]

...If the POIS research is done well it may be worth spending the 5k USD as a one off cost.

Yes! And we can always convince clinics/hospitals/urgent care centers to buy one for it's millions of POIS patients!

Hi All,

Two thoughts --

1) Dr. K's research focus is to determine if abnormal vagus nerve activity is a factor...perhaps the MAIN factor...in causing the symptoms of POIS. The use of the Cerbomed transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulator, which consists of an electrical stimulation unit and a dedicated ear electrode, is something that Dr. K. was somehow able to arrange for the study.  If it works to reduce POIS symptoms, it will be an incredibly wonderful added bonus to this study!  But please keep in mind -- the tVNS device (ear stim and stim unit) isn't the focus of this study.

2) If the Cerbomed tVNS unit works for POIS -- if it clearly diminishes the symptoms of POIS in most, if not all, the tested men affected by POIS symptoms -- Dr. K. will report it/publish it in a major medical journal. That would open the door to FDA approval in the USA (i.e. insurance coverage), and would also open the door for approval within the European Union -- for its use in men with POIS.

Floppy -- I'm always so very impressed with your willingness to try out potential treatments!!

But please, everyone -- the Cerbomed ear stim device used with a generic TENS unit may not work the same way that the Cerbomed electrical stimulation unit works. Settings which might not be available on a TENS unit may be needed. 

Also, each POIS sufferer may need individualized settings/schedules with the electrical unit.

Floppy -- absolutely nothing would be better than to hear that your "experiment" worked wonderfully!!

But if it doesn't, please -- everyone -- try to keep it in perspective. There's so much more to this study than you or I know!

It's of greatest importance to keep in mind that the aim of the study is to determine if abnormal vagus nerve activity is central to POIS. The Cerbomed unit is an added benefit that Dr. K. was able to include in the study.

Best wishes,
Stef

Dear Stef,

Thank you for setting the record straight -- for me and others!

Best,
Demo

[Scary sheep]

So if theoretically the non-implant vagus nerve stimulator has promising results, when is the soonest a POIS sufferer not involved in the study could get treatment? Would we have to go to the doctor during every POIS state?