Author Topic: Are we all chemically depressed ?  (Read 3954 times)

LAPOISSE

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Are we all chemically depressed ?
« on: September 23, 2012, 06:35:21 AM »
This is just a idea or a intuition coming from my personal experience and the tons of reading I had in this forum and elsewhere this past 6 month.

I got the main information from this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPRNTjrrbY

It says in short some persons have a niacin dependency leadind to an over consumption of tryptophane to produce niacin instead of serotonine conversion. When people use large dose of Niacin(1 to 5g/day), the depression just go away ;

A this end of this article, several other testimonies :

http://spasticgoat.com/2010/10/niacin-depression-cure/

In my personal experience, serotonine is clearly involved ; I took for several month high dose of SSRI's(paroxetine) and my POIS was gone ; unfortunately side effect where too important and I had really hard time to quit ; tried two time  leading to major unexplained depressive/POIS episode(without O). Tried 1 month ago with kurtosis regimen and Niacin with success.


The point is : Why Niacin seems to work well for the most of us ? it's probably the best consensus we have on a cure.What O has to do with that ?

This is where my knowledges are limited but maybe  :

The Orgasm lead to a consumption of a limited stock of hormones wich lead to some mechanism of compensation and to an unbalanced hormonal status(dopamine, serotonine, adrenaline,etc). Putting Niacin and other B vitamins in the loop limit the chain effect.

This could explain the Cornelius experience, the constant POIS sufferers experience, the kurtosis regimen,  this theory : http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=508.0

This not explain the Waldingers theory wich in my opinion is not really convincing ; Everything is based on the skin prick test ;  there wasn't a test group of non symptomatic persons wich could have prooved(maybe) that there is normal  proportion of person that react to their own sperm injected intradermally(where it - as a matter of fact- shouldn't be).This not explain the Cornelius cure either.

Hope you understand everything, sorry for the Frenglish ; )

Daveman

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Re: Are we all chemically depressed ?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 08:21:33 AM »
This is just a idea or a intuition coming from my personal experience and the tons of reading I had in this forum and elsewhere this past 6 month.

I got the main information from this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPRNTjrrbY

It says in short some persons have a niacin dependency leadind to an over consumption of tryptophane to produce niacin instead of serotonine conversion. When people use large dose of Niacin(1 to 5g/day), the depression just go away ;

A this end of this article, several other testimonies :

http://spasticgoat.com/2010/10/niacin-depression-cure/

In my personal experience, serotonine is clearly involved ; I took for several month high dose of SSRI's(paroxetine) and my POIS was gone ; unfortunately side effect where too important and I had really hard time to quit ; tried two time  leading to major unexplained depressive/POIS episode(without O). Tried 1 month ago with kurtosis regimen and Niacin with success.


The point is : Why Niacin seems to work well for the most of us ? it's probably the best consensus we have on a cure.What O has to do with that ?

This is where my knowledges are limited but maybe  :

The Orgasm lead to a consumption of a limited stock of hormones wich lead to some mechanism of compensation and to an unbalanced hormonal status(dopamine, serotonine, adrenaline,etc). Putting Niacin and other B vitamins in the loop limit the chain effect.

This could explain the Cornelius experience, the constant POIS sufferers experience, the kurtosis regimen,  this theory : http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=508.0

This not explain the Waldingers theory wich in my opinion is not really convincing ; Everything is based on the skin prick test ;  there wasn't a test group of non symptomatic persons wich could have prooved(maybe) that there is normal  proportion of person that react to their own sperm injected intradermally(where it - as a matter of fact- shouldn't be).This not explain the Cornelius cure either.

Hope you understand everything, sorry for the Frenglish ; )

Thanks very much LAPOISSE,

Your Frenglish is very clear, and I think your logic too.

It seems to be the predominant direction, and while it is not 100% still for everyone it seems to be very much on a solid track.

I get skin problems after 10 days or so on B-Complex, and am probably slightly better on pure niacin. Others need the B-Complex and touches of other ingredients. Some of these
ingredients are incompatible with certain types of chronic ailments, and others still don't have any relief.

I am not trying to be negative, not in the least, because I feel that this is the direction to go. At some point a more precise adaptation may bring relief for all without side effects, or maybe, discovering the mechanism, someone will come up with a cure where POIS will be stopped forever.

If we don't do it ourselves, we will at least lead the way.

Thanks for your input.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

Daveman

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Re: Are we all chemically depressed ?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 08:23:07 AM »
BTW, all of this gives me very much hope, although it is still not perfect it shows that we are on to something with proof positive!

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

kurtosis

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Re: Are we all chemically depressed ?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2012, 10:26:45 AM »
Hartnup disease is discussed in the thread that haidcat started. See my responses in the thread.
Treatment is often suggested as a high protein diet with extra niacin so, on those grounds, I didn't think that taking extra b vitamins and protein would hurt :)
Hartnup is interesting as it is a disease that is both genetic but not obvious from birth. It's onset can be a period of stress (hormone related), poor nutrition, gastric illness etc.

When it does become obvious, the symptoms resemble niacin deficiency a.k.a. pellagra
Quote
A person with Hartnup disease cannot absorb amino acids properly from the intestine and cannot reabsorb them properly from tubules in the kidneys. Excessive amounts of amino acids, such as tryptophan, are excreted in the urine. The body is thus left with inadequate amounts of amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins. With too little tryptophan in the blood, the body is unable to make a sufficient amount of the B-complex vitamin niacinamide, particularly under stress when more vitamins are needed.

Honestly, we could have this or we may not. I've no idea. All we know is that supplementing niacin works but niacin is also useful in stress management. For example, if you had something else that elevated norepinephrine then niacin might bring some relief if not a cure. It's very difficult to even say that you have an illness because the cure of that illness appears to work for you. The effect from niacin may be related to COX-2 inhibition or it may not. The benefits Demo is getting from testosterone may be because testosterone helps reduce cortisol and norepinephrine levels or it may not.
It's all up in the air.

My doctor is happy to say I have markers of ongoing allergic reaction but to what... A psychiatrist and an allergist all seem to think that the major symptoms I'm describing are to do with a stress response but they don't know to what. By the way, reaching plateau's of a particular dopamine boosting treatment not working or not producing major improvement after a huge boost at the start is "normal". It is NOT a placebo effect. In the same way, anti-depressant medication can take months to work properly as drugs like Prozac that appear to increase levels of Nerve Growth Factor take a while to do so and brain cells take a while to mature. I'm not a doctor but my opinion is that, somehow, POIS disrupts the maturation of new brain cells and disrupts learning. It is known that elevated cortisol during a stress response will do this.

This is what happens to people who are depressed. No matter how POIS starts out, the physiological and psychological stress appears to lead to depression. This isn't any surprise. How could someone live with an illness which effects their cognitive and physical performance almost every day but remains undiagnosed WITHOUT FEELING DEPRESSED. The point is, we have a reason to be depressed and, even if we didn't, it appears POIS affects our brains in much the same way.

I do think it's really interesting that at least one POIS sufferer had low progesterone and was cured by progesterone supplementation. I looked at the NSF discussion about these results and I don't think enough attentions was given to this. Probably because it's difficult to convince any doctor to prescribe progesterone to males, never mind young males.

The root cause (aetiology in medical terms) of POIS remains a mystery. And the unfortunate thing is that there are illnesses out there that have been studied much more than POIS where that is still the case. That's not an excuse not to conduct research, just something that we have to prepare ourselves. A good result from further research is any viable treatment regime with greater but not definitive insight into how it works. It could take years to understand the cause of this disorder (if indeed it has only one).