About Brain Fog and POIS - what medical tests can be helpful

[fathom]

I want to go through any beneficial testing till the end of this year asap.   

Definition: "Brain fog, also commonly known as brain fatigue, can be a mild to severe episode of mental confusion that can strike without warning. When this occurs, it is common to experience a lack of focus, poor memory recall and reduced mental acuity".  My condition in addition to the brain fog, affects my speech process too, my speech and comprehension are sluggish.  A related condition I see is: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo.

What are some beneficial tests/diseases that could underlie Brain fog and off course POIS:
- General: complete blood count test
- Lyme disease (caused by tick bites).  What kind of test.
- under methylated / over methylated.  What kind of test to figure out which one relates you?
- others?

[fathom]

Hi Quantum, would you be able to guide?

[Quantum]

Hi Quantum, would you be able to guide?

Hi fathom,

The causes behind POIS symptoms are not known yet, and to date, no blood test or else is able to show anything, that is why we POIS research to be done.  POIS does not show on the radar of usual medical tests.

About methylation problems, you need your DNA testing to know your genetic status, for some specific SNPs, like the well-known MTHFR, and some others.  Look for Kurtosis posts on this.

My own hypothesis about "brain symptoms", cognitive and emotional ones, is based on cerebral inflammation caused by the deflection of the normal tryptophan pathway toward the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines.  You can read a detailed explanation of my view at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 , or simply look at the graphic attached to that post for an overview.

[Muon]

I've did some tests on a few cytokines and other parameters. I don't know if these are related to POIS, you have to repeat them on more POIS patients to say something useful about it. Click on the dropbox link inside the following thread (time stamps are in the notes):

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.0

If I were you I would at least try Tryptophan, Serotonin and IL-8
Many patients have already been tested for Lyme disease multiple times with negative results, I won't bother with that.

[Quantum]

I've did some tests on a few cytokines and other parameters. I don't know if these are related to POIS, you have to repeat them on more POIS patients to say something useful about it. Click on the dropbox link inside the following thread (time stamps are in the notes):

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.0

If I were you I would at least try Tryptophan, Serotonin and IL-8
Many patients have already been tested for Lyme disease multiple times with negative results, I won't bother with that.

Interesting to note in your results, Muon, is that you seem to have a TH1 dominance ( High TH1:TH2 ratio ).  I would like to see, in a future POIS study, a screening that would measure the TH1:TH2 ratio of many POIS sufferers, and this would be a first step in detecting the difference among POIS cases, and how to treat them accordingly. 

I never had done tests like yours, but, unlike you, I do seem to have a TH2 dominance.  As a matter of fact, I have good results with a plants sterols and sterolins preparation ( Moducare) which induces a TH1 shift, raising my TH1:TH2 ratio ( however, I would have to go through blood tests to verify this information, based on observed results only).   In the case of Moducare, chances are it would make your symptoms worst.  This is an example of how important would be to screen for POIS types, because what helps one POIS sufferer may harm another.

In this regard, testing for TH1 dominance ( interferon gamma (IFN gamma) is high) or TH2 dominance ( Interleukin-4 (IL-4) is high)  would be of interest.  However, it is important to note that the TH1:TH2 immune theory is not clearly established, and therapy based on this theory have only given mixed results to date, so I would not put too much expectations on this approach for now.

[fathom]

Thanks Quantum.   I searched for 'kurtosis' and didn't find any post?  I am now starting to follow your hypothesis, though need more time to start digesting it, very helpful.  One question: you mentioned you suffered from hay fever growing up.  I used to have a similar problem (growing up in a former soviet republic) where my nose used to get severely blocked and due to that I could not breath,  my life was a hell I could not lay down flat due to nasal/sinus whatever those issues were, docs used to give me more and more powerful steroid nasal sprays but it was a constant struggle.  Fortunately since I moved to US, my nasal congestion improved to acceptable levels.   I figure it might have been due to some allergic compound where I grew up.  Though I still have excessive nasal drainage or excessive mucus through my throat  which I frequently have to clear/swallow, and this drainage/mucus it causes me excessive irritation in my throat (sore throat) and more importantly to my vocal/speech/sound organs (hoarseness, muffled, muted voice).  By chance you have similar condition post the hay fever symptoms?.   

Thanks Muon.  You mention: Tryptophan, Serotonin and IL-8.   I know Serotonin, though dont know Tryptophan and IL-8, what would be a good way to increase your Tryptophan levels, and your IL-8 levels?

[Quantum]

Hi Fathom,

My allergy tests were at the worst grade possible when I was young.  I had plugged nose, constantly, nose dripping like a faucet, and also had unstoppable sneezing problems quite often, and when near a fields with any grasses, including the small, weed ones, I would develop in a matter of minutes a severe rash with bumps and large map-like swollen areas, and had to get away as soon as possible, I think staying near such a field could have become life-threatening.   I had to rinse my sinus with saline at least 3 times a day, and each time a ton of secretions would come out.  This constant inflammation in my sinuses lead me to very frequent sinusitis as well  ( I took a truckload of antibiotics, as a child )

Around 10 y/o, I went into pre-seasonal desensitization, for 3 years, and got better, having only nasal problems and some iching, after 3 years.  Then, at 17, I worked on a farm for 3 months, taking anti-histamine every day, and this huge exposition to hay had a beneficial effect on the long run.  I rarely had to take anti-histamine after that.  It wouldn't have been possible to work on a farm prior to desens to grasses, but this massive exposure to hay worked like a shock therapy for the remaining symptoms.

Nevertheless, I still used nasal saline irrigation for years after that, because of dairy products ( it took me some time to make the link between massive nasal secretions and dairy consumption).  Now, I rarely need saline irrigation ( I stopped all dairies for more than 10 years, and never had a sinusitis since )

I surely recommend you start sinus rinsing with saline, many times a day, and this will wash away the irritating secretions.  It is a safe and very effective way to help your nasal mucosa, and your throat.  There are many products available OTC ( Hydrasense, Salinex, Sinus Rinse, and so on).  You can even do your own saline, with 2,5 ml of salt in 1 liter of source water, it's as you prefer, but if you mix it yourself, be sure about the right salt proportion, because if too much salt, it will irritate rather than soothes the nasal mucosa.  You can use it as often as you want during the day, but best at waking up, after each meal, and at bedtime.  This will help your throat irritation problem too, because it's the dripping nasal secretions in the back of the throat that causes the throat irritation - those secretions are full of pro-inflammatory compounds ( cytokines, interferon, ...), much more than just histamine. After a few weeks, your voice may get better, and you may stop clearing your voice constantly.


About Kurtosis on MTHFR and other SNPs, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=468.msg7846#msg7846, or also, go to forum home, and on the search box on top right of homepage, type "MTHFR", or "methylation", or "methylfolate", or any term related to methylation, and browse through those messages to get more info on this.  You will see there as well more recent message from nanna1, about SAMe and methylation support, too.


For tryptophan, which is important for serotonin, niacin and melatonin production in our body, one of the best sources is pumpkin seeds.  Another good source is turkey.  I eat some pumpkin seeds every day, and I eat turkey breast sandwiches instead of ham sandwiches, on a regular basis.    In supplement, 5-HTP is a good choice ( available OTC here, but not in every country ), but I just take low doses, and not every day ( 50mg in my pre-pack, or else, 25mg).  5-HTP is tryptophan that is further transformed toward serotonin as a final product ( no surprise, then, that it helps with serotonin).  More info on tryptophan metabolism at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan#Function .

Let me know if you give nasal saline a try!

[fathom]

Thanks much Quantum.   After reading this, I re-started today my sinus rinsing routine.   

1. Can you tell which brand/formulation of 5-htp you consume?.  Some folks say its best to take with L-theanine, any views on that?

2.  Also, about my sinus-rinse (NeilMed), I keep my mouth open and breath normally while squishing the plastic bottle in each nostril.  But by the time I get done, there is that wary sensation of water reaching into your head, and that feeling is not pleasant and stays with you through-out day.  Is there tip to avoid it, i am hoping you know what I am describing, since I know I'm not doing a good job at that.

3.  I'm still continuing sinus rinse, though since it wasn't substantially reducing that mucus feeling in throat and more important helping my voice, it gave me a hint to try Guafenesin 600 mg extended release (it loosens the mucus also), and that like a switch has improved my voice, I still have mucus flowing through my throat though, maybe a little less now.   Off course I wish I could attain this effect naturally through neti pot or drinking more water (but that simply sends me to bathroom every 30 mins) and doesn't pull the trick.  You have any info by chance on why Guifenesin remedies voice.   I have been googling, I find many articles just stating that Guaifenesin improves voice by thinning mucus, though that alone is not the explanation.  I am thinking maybe Guaifenesin has some particular mechanism of action or a chemical that I might have deficiency in, and thats why it is remedying my voice (simple hydration and washing sinuses alone couldn't)? 

[Quantum]

Thanks much Quantum.   After reading this, I re-started today my sinus rinsing routine.   

1. Can you tell which brand/formulation of 5-htp you consume?.  Some folks say its best to take with L-theanine, any views on that?

2.  Also, about my sinus-rinse (NeilMed), I keep my mouth open and breath normally while squishing the plastic bottle in each nostril.  But by the time I get done, there is that wary sensation of water reaching into your head, and that feeling is not pleasant and stays with you through-out day.  Is there tip to avoid it, i am hoping you know what I am describing, since I know I'm not doing a good job at that.

3.  I'm still continuing sinus rinse, though since it wasn't substantially reducing that mucus feeling in throat and more important helping my voice, it gave me a hint to try Guafenesin 600 mg extended release (it loosens the mucus also), and that like a switch has improved my voice, I still have mucus flowing through my throat though, maybe a little less now.   Off course I wish I could attain this effect naturally through neti pot or drinking more water (but that simply sends me to bathroom every 30 mins) and doesn't pull the trick.  You have any info by chance on why Guifenesin remedies voice.   I have been googling, I find many articles just stating that Guaifenesin improves voice by thinning mucus, though that alone is not the explanation.  I am thinking maybe Guaifenesin has some particular mechanism of action or a chemical that I might have deficiency in, and thats why it is remedying my voice (simple hydration and washing sinuses alone couldn't)?

1.  I use Natural Factors 5-HTP 50 mg, it is a good company with good standards for production.  Their preparation is free of "peak X" compound - search the net if interested to know more about this in 5-HTP preparations - and their tablets are enteric coated, so easier on the stomach ( but I often cut them in half, for 25mg dose, though, which break the coating, but I tolerate them well anyway ).  I also use L-theanine in my pre-pack, which is good for anxiety, but it acts differently - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine#Pharmacology.  5-HTP and L-theanine  are both in my pre-pack, they are compatible, and in my case, they complement each other, with the other elements of my pre-pack, for mood stability, against POIS-generated anxiety.

2.  What you describe sounds to me like water entering the frontal sinuses, and that stay stuck there because of inflammation closing the drainage hole of the sinus.  Whenever I had this, I massage in a rotating motion the frontal sinuses drainage canal, that is found in the area where the base of the nose bridge meet the ridge of the eyebrow.  I use my thumbs and press on the rather painful point you will find there, in the upper part eye socket, in line with the inner corner of the eyes ( there is a small indentation you will find there, but the pain will help you find the point...hehe... for a more visual description, see figure 3 at https://www.wikihow.com/Massage-Your-Sinuses  - but I rather use my thumbs, unlike on this picture).  This massaging help the sinuses to drain.  Similar massaging can be done at the base of the nose for the maxillary sinuses, and for those ones, you have to be facing the floor while massaging for them to better drain.


3. Guiafenesine helps thinning the mucus, but also has muscle relaxant and anticonvulsant properties and may be acting as an NMDA receptor antagonist. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaifenesin#Mechanism_of_action .   NMDAr blockers are good for neuroprotection against excitotoxicity ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroprotection ), and as I have written on the forum, I suspect that excitotoxicity is at play in POIS for the cognitive and emotional symptoms. 

But for clearing secretions, we now have in Canada an European product that, in my opinion and experience, is far more effectuve than guiafenesine.  It is called GeloMyrtol ( http://www.gelomyrtol.ca/en/ ).  I use it whenever I feel that my ears or sinus or throat or bronchitis begin to plug with mucus, and it's very effective for me.

For clearing throat and for aching throat, however, my magic bullet is a natural product in spray ( https://www.avogel.ca/en/herbal-remedies/echinaforce-sore-throat-spray.php ).  This is an essential for me, and for many people I have recommend it to.  I use it up to every hour or every two hours, and it is very effective both at pain relief, and clearing secretions, and it helps treating viral infection by stimulating the immune system.  When a cold or throat problem shows up - and it happens often during this long Canada winter - I use this spray right away, along with GeloMyrtol, and Moducare, plus some Olive Leaf extract ( That's my secret recipe for stopping a cold dead on its tracks...Let"s call it the "Quantum anti-cold pack".... ).