Pre-exercise pack, delayed-onset muscle soreness, POIS and NSAID

[romies]

I am posting this observation as suggested by Quantum. And I hope it may shed some light to some of fellow sufferers of POIS

I have one other related syndrome in addition to POIS:
after rigorous workout (weight training for 20-40 mins, High-intensity interval training, or cardio for 30-45 mins).
    * I would get brain fog (cognitive impairment) in about 30mins-1hr
    * the brain fog feels similar to caffeine withdrawal (slow thinking, poor recall, and reduced working memory) (I am not a coffee/tea drinker)
    * the brain fog is most severe the morning after sleeping (T+1day)
    * the brain fog usually dissipates after the 2nd night of sleep (T+36 hrs) (much sooner recovery than POIS) if I don't have DOMS
    * the brain fog can last for 2 days if I got severe DOMS
    * the brain fog is NOT relieved by drinking coffee or tea

This issue has troubled me since I was a teenager, and I don't recall having a clear date when I started to have these issues.

POIS symptoms that do not show up after exercise include:
     * flu-like sore throat
     * depressed mood
   
This issue is related to POIS, because they are similar in these ways:
     the supplements that benefits POIS also benefits exercise-induced malaise.
     supplements need to be taken before the fact (far less effective if only taken after the fact)
     delayed onset (symptoms usually set in after 30mins)
     
Supplements that I have tried and have shown promise (not all are needed, the fewer the better)
     Phosphatidylserine - reduce cortisol response from workout (only the softgel version work for me)
     Quercetin helps stabilize mast cell (7hrs to peak)
     Curcumin stablize mast cell,         
         Curcumin reduces DOMS
     Curcumin + Quercetin for Il-6 and cortisol reduction
     COX2-inhibitor to prevent inflammation/IDO
     CoQ10 to reduce inflammatory response
     Arginine, L-ornithine (moderate) to remove ammonia, increase NO
     Omega-3 (DHA+EPA) : reduce AA and inflammatory response             

I have tried several different combos of the above (and individual ones). For me, Celebrex alone (COX-2 inhibitor) is the most reliable one, with a much longer half-life than Ibuprofen. Curcumin alone has a milder effect.
Curcumin is known to reduces DOMS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4074833/

My current line of reasoning is
     Vigorous Exercise --> trigger mast cell, release histamine, TNF-a and IL-6, cortisol (if prolonged exercise over 1hr) and PGE production
              Cortisol --> TDO in liver --> low tryptophan state + high quinolinic acid
     similar to the mast cell activation syndromes (related to the IDO/TDO pathway explained by Quantum and nightingale before)

Warning: Some people have *severe* reaction towards NSAID (Celebrex, Ibuprofen etc). Seek medical help immediately if you found any bruise/bleeding/ulcer when you are on NSAID. Fish oil, Curcumin, Bromelain also are reported to interfere with platelet function, so be very careful.

[sameer7777]

Good info

[Quantum]

Thanks for posting this detailed information, romies !   It may prove to be beneficial for others, and is a step further in helping to figure out what POIS is and what may cause this complex disorder.


I will copy and paste your message in the thread I have started  in the meantime about Exercise-induced POIS-like symptoms, at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2373.msg19865#msg19865 .  You will see that both of us are not the only ones with this among POIS sufferers, but it does not seem to be 100% POISers who have symptoms after exercise.

For those wondering, DOMS = Delayed onset muscle soreness,  as in the post title, and AA = arachidonic acid, a naturally occurring fatty acid that leads to the synthesis of many pro-inflammatory immune messengers

[Rinat]

Hi all.I have tried to use prepack, which is consist of two kind of pills: Celebrex and Rinza(paracetamol 500 mg,caffeine 30 mg,
phenylephrine hydrochloride 10 mg,
phenylephrine hydrochloride 2 mg). I took 2 pills of celebrex and 1 of Rinza befor O. It helped me a lot(80-90%). But i think that i need second pill of Rinza after O.

[Nas]

Hi all.I have tried to use prepack, which is consist of two kind of pills: Celebrex and Rinza(paracetamol 500 mg,caffeine 30 mg,
phenylephrine hydrochloride 10 mg,
phenylephrine hydrochloride 2 mg). I took 2 pills of celebrex and 1 of Rinza befor O. It helped me a lot(80-90%). But i think that i need second pill of Rinza after O.

It helped with flu like symptoms?

[Rinat]

My throat was a little ill.One of the ellements of Rinza is antihistamine and i think that second pill of it will treat me completly.By the way,before i used Aspirin instead of Celebrex(because it is cheaper), but i got a stomach ache and i think celebrex is better.