marshall protocol

[dr-brahim]

hi everyone,
i am new here and i am reading all the time yours posts and your methods to relieve from pois symptoms and it was really helpful thanks to all the members of the forum.
i have a question: has anyone here tried marshall protocol? and what was the results?

[Quantum]

Hi dr-Brahim and welcome to the forum!

I never heard of the Marshall protocol before reading your post, so I have made some research about it.

It is definitively a controversial protocol, and there is no solid proof that it can help in auto-immune diseases.  A search for a scientific reference on Pubmed for it yield no results at all, so there has not been any study done.   I have found a description and an analysis by a MD, at https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-marshal-protocol/ .   The use of prescription drug for hypertension, antibiotics, and avoidance of any vitamin D is not very appealing to me.

First, because vitamin D has been proven beneficial in some auto-immune diseases, like in Lupus.

Also, in my case, POIS causes me hypotension.  So, it wouldn't be a good thing at all for me to take an angiotensin receptor antagonist like olmesartan or valsartan, that would make my hypotension worst ( taking an ARA is part of this protocol)

Here is the conclusion of the MD article I gave the link to:  "So what do I make of the Marshall Protocal?
Unproven. Based on hypotheses that are almost certainly not true. Potentially harmful if it induces side effects from unneeded antibiotic uses or, more worrisome, from vitamin deficiency."

There are many safe alternative that have been successful for members here, so I would recommand experimenting with these rather than this protocol that appears to be still quite controversial.


You can take a look at my POIS Types Chart to see what have been effective for other members  ( no single method is effective for every POIS sufferers, so far, so you have to make some testing, with a safe approach, of course)

[dr-brahim]

thank you quantum for all the efforts you have done, for the chart i tried taurine,(maca, tongkat ali, tribilus and damiana to increase testosterone level : very very effective) and anti-inflammatory drugs and they were really helpful but they are not a definitive treatment for my pois symptoms.

my theory and my own explanation of pois symptoms (just hypothesis)  is that we have an autoimmune process and hormones dysfunction (not deficiency but dysfunction) the first process is related to the second one (hormones dysfunction is the origin of the autoimmune process).

the autoimmune process causes a cell membrane destabilization mostly on the membrane of the nervous system cells for this reason we have brain fog, loss of memory, headache, tiredness, IBS....... here is the explanation : testosterone doesn't function well ( may be low level of testosterone or of the receptor of testosterone which can be attacked by the immune system ...)

testosterone is supposed to diminish the capacity of the immune system  at the moment of ejaculation  and to inhibit the contact between the sperm and the immune system in the urethra because the sperm is considered like a foreign body by the immune system

testosterone dysfunction leads to autoimmune process who leads to a secretion of interleukins, cytokines and antibodies .....all of theses substances give us fever, tiredness.....and attacks the nervous system who control our body so hypotension, vertigo and IBS by attacking autonome nervous system (vagus nerve) all of us we have a weak vagus nerve because he is exhausted by inflammation and auto-immune attacks,  brain fog by attacking the cortical cells of the brain and the high concentration of cytokines and interleukins ....

i suggest that we start the research by taking several groups and giving each a group a treatment from the chart and doing analysis and medical investigation (ct-scan and MRI .....)  before and after the treatment from the result may be we can find something who can help us to find the solution and the causes of this disease

[Quantum]

Thanks for your good words about my POIS types chart, dr-brahim.

I am very much in tune with your understanding of what causes POIS on the metabolic level.  the immune triggering at local level, at time of ejaculation, followed by an immune cascade of pro-inflammatory cytokines and other immune messengers that slowly spread throughout the body and and then slowly disappears.   

I have include in my hypothesis the immune up-regulation of 2 specific enzymes, that can explain much of the cognitive and emotional symptoms  ( more on that here:  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559

I completely agree with you that the cognitive and emotional symptoms seems to be caused by inflammation in the brain.  In fact, those cognitive and emotional clusters of symptoms look a lot like a mild to moderate encephalitis that lasts for a few days ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis ).  POIS may also include flu-like and allergy-like symptoms as well, depending of each typical presentation, but the cognitive and emotional clusters of symptoms, alonf with the fatigue symptoms, are very common among POIS sufferers.  ( I have the "chance" of not having any cognitive symptoms, but I have above average emotional symptoms ).

Thanks for your great input, dr-brahim !


P.S. Demo would have welcome you and other newcomers as well, but is presently recovering from a sudden health issue.  He is ok and out of the hospital, but do not be surprised by his unusual silence.

[Nas]

I do agree with Quantum, Deomgrafix uses TRT ( Testosterone Replacement Therapy ) and he says that it worked for him for his POIS.
I wonder about the testosterone theory, does the testosterone have to be only low when we ejaculate ? because people in this forum had tested their testosterone levels previously and many of them were normal.

[Nas]

Also, Dr.Waldinger doesn't believe that the sperm is what gets attacked rather a component in the seminal fluid; some people still had pois even though they were castrated.

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

I would be great that Dr Waldinger, in his current study, would pinpoint one or a few possible antigens at the base of the POIS auto-immune reaction!

[Nas]

Yeah, sure it would be great.

[lycopoulos]

Hi Quantum,

In response to your post below; I was always under the impression that POIS reaction is a short-term encephalitis attack. However, would you have any insight as to why my neurologist found no signs of plaques in my brain (as a sign of inflammation)?

Do you know if encephalitis can be subtle and create no detectable plaques in the brain?

Thanks in advance,

Lycopoulos

Thanks for your good words about my POIS types chart, dr-brahim.

I am very much in tune with your understanding of what causes POIS on the metabolic level.  the immune triggering at local level, at time of ejaculation, followed by an immune cascade of pro-inflammatory cytokines and other immune messengers that slowly spread throughout the body and and then slowly disappears.   

I have include in my hypothesis the immune up-regulation of 2 specific enzymes, that can explain much of the cognitive and emotional symptoms  ( more on that here:  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559

I completely agree with you that the cognitive and emotional symptoms seems to be caused by inflammation in the brain.  In fact, those cognitive and emotional clusters of symptoms look a lot like a mild to moderate encephalitis that lasts for a few days ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis ).  POIS may also include flu-like and allergy-like symptoms as well, depending of each typical presentation, but the cognitive and emotional clusters of symptoms, alonf with the fatigue symptoms, are very common among POIS sufferers.  ( I have the "chance" of not having any cognitive symptoms, but I have above average emotional symptoms ).

Thanks for your great input, dr-brahim !


P.S. Demo would have welcome you and other newcomers as well, but is presently recovering from a sudden health issue.  He is ok and out of the hospital, but do not be surprised by his unusual silence.

[Quantum]

Hi Lycopoulos,

I am not sure what your neurologist was looking for, I am not at all a neurologist.  The only brain disease I think of at the moment that implies plaques is Alzheimer's disease, where beta-amyloids plaques are a hallmark, but they can only be seen post-mortem, by histological examination of brain tissue samples.  I am not aware that these plaque can be seen by any current technology, including MRI.  Those neuroimaging technology usually reveals atrophy in certain regions, but the plaques are too small to be seen ( see http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/336281-overview ).  There are some reports that it may be indeed possible, with some fancy techniques, to obtain images of the plaques, but it's not clear for now, and seems controversial ( see http://www.alzheimer.ca/en/News-and-Events/feature-stories/amyloid-imaging ).


You should try to get some more details from him about those plaques he is looking for.


I have already suggest a hypothesis about what could cause the inflammation in the brain, suggesting it could be related to the hacking of the tryptophan metabolism toward the kynurenine pathways, through the immune upregulating of some enzymes in the brain ( IDO and TDO).  This ugregulating, in addition to decreasing serotonin production, leads to the production of neurotoxic kynurenine products, namely, kynurenic acid and quinolinic acid, causing inflammation in the brain ( more details on this hypothesis at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 ).  This mechanism has been talked about and studied a lot in some-auto-immune diseases and in depression, so It is a known issue.  However, there is no proof to date that it is implicated in POIS.   The only hint that it could be the case it that IDO inhibitors and TDO inhibitors seems to help me ( and a few other members) decrease symptoms when taken before ejaculation.