Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Nightingale on November 07, 2012, 06:29:01 PM
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I'm interested in starting a diet low in histamine. I have found some website with lots of suggestions of what NOT to take, but I'm still looking for some site that has a meal plan. Anyone know a good website? Anyone else interested in trying this out?
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am interested in doing the diet and combining it with mast cell stabilizer and nadh/ribose, and l methionine like kurtosis is saying.
i will start researching to.
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I'm interested in starting a diet low in histamine. I have found some website with lots of suggestions of what NOT to take, but I'm still looking for some site that has a meal plan. Anyone know a good website? Anyone else interested in trying this out?
I don't. There's a website called the lowhistaminechef which seems reasonable but I have not tried any of the recipes.
It rules out a lot of food but then again I got a headache, sinus pain or stomach upset with a lot of food. Especially, cheese, beer, wine, tea and chocolate.
So I don't drink alcohol and try to stay away from chocolate and any fermented drink, including tea. Someone gave me kombucha once and it made me extremely sick. They had told me it was a health drink but I felt as nauseous as if I'd been drinking vodka all night :)
This diet may be helping my recovery. I don't know.
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You should really read http://data.aerzteblatt.org/pdf/DI/103/51/a3477e.pdf
Some great information there about histamine levels in foods, what to avoid and treatment options.
I'm trying to find companies which make synthetic DAO products for regular use. I will continue with methionine supplementation and I'll modify my diet to remove anything on the list I didn't realise was problematic.
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You should really read http://data.aerzteblatt.org/pdf/DI/103/51/a3477e.pdf
Some great information there about histamine levels in foods, what to avoid and treatment options.
I'm trying to find companies which make synthetic DAO products for regular use. I will continue with methionine supplementation and I'll modify my diet to remove anything on the list I didn't realise was problematic.
I think the diet is more important than we realize. Now that I / we are a little more in tune, I've noticed how, when I feel a little worse, (even outside of POIS), that I had eaten something higher in histamines.
Each thing may have a small effect that you don't really connect when you're not thinking about it, but summed together, they probably make a big difference. And my bet is that it would improve especially those who are in constant POIS.
It's NOT the cure but it certainly stands to help.
I remember I started making graphs of "how I felt" against activities, food, exercise, etc, and when you document, you see a lot more than when you just leave it to "chance" and go by memory. A detailed and conscious adjustment can make a lot of difference AND give insights into what's happening to your body.
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am interested in doing the diet and combining it with mast cell stabilizer and nadh/ribose, and l methionine like kurtosis is saying.
i will start researching to.
I would REALLY be interested in seeing your results!!
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You should really read http://data.aerzteblatt.org/pdf/DI/103/51/a3477e.pdf
Some great information there about histamine levels in foods, what to avoid and treatment options.
I'm trying to find companies which make synthetic DAO products for regular use. I will continue with methionine supplementation and I'll modify my diet to remove anything on the list I didn't realise was problematic.
I think the diet is more important than we realize. Now that I / we are a little more in tune, I've noticed how, when I feel a little worse, (even outside of POIS), that I had eaten something higher in histamines.
Each thing may have a small effect that you don't really connect when you're not thinking about it, but summed together, they probably make a big difference. And my bet is that it would improve especially those who are in constant POIS.
It's NOT the cure but it certainly stands to help.
I remember I started making graphs of "how I felt" against activities, food, exercise, etc, and when you document, you see a lot more than when you just leave it to "chance" and go by memory. A detailed and conscious adjustment can make a lot of difference AND give insights into what's happening to your body.
There is one salient difference between allergies and histamine intolerance (produced by either methylation or deamination issues. The allergy will be obvious whenever you consume the allergen. The latter is cumulative. The feelings of illness come about from having too much histamine in your system and consuming a food or doing an activity (such as having an orgasm) that increases it will bring about the symptoms.
There are 4 histamine receptors so even if the h3 blockers worked and were combined with h1 and h2 blockers, there may still be affects on mood because of h4 receptors. It's complicated. If this is the problem behind POIS then reducing histamine levels is necessary whether through stabilisers, synthetic DAO or methylation increasers.
I don't think it's possible to block all the negative effects with inverse agonists. Even if someone was mostly better from h3 and h1 blockers, they may have stomach problems from h2. So imagine they're taking 3 kinds of anti-histamine (not a great idea itself) but have mysterious symptoms from h4 with, perhaps, even more H4 action because histamine can't bind to the other antagonised receptors. Not good.
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am interested in doing the diet and combining it with mast cell stabilizer and nadh/ribose, and l methionine like kurtosis is saying.
i will start researching to.
am going to modify this by replacing nadh and methionine with sam e.
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am interested in doing the diet and combining it with mast cell stabilizer and nadh/ribose, and l methionine like kurtosis is saying.
i will start researching to.
am going to modify this by replacing nadh and methionine with sam e.
I've found both NADH and methionine versus SAM-e to be comparable. NADH and methionine seems to work a little bit better but it's difficult to judge.
Vitamin C can destroy histamine also. I find capsules are better at reducing an allergic reaction than the effervescent stuff which sometimes makes me feel a bit sick. If you can't get DAOSIN (which is expensive) then popping a 500mg vitamin C capsule after an O may have a similar effect but I doubt it's as effective as DAO will directly clear up all nasty histamine in your gut.
Still, you can get a good quality vitamin C capsule with flavonoids for cheap. Flavonoids are anti-oxidants and may reduce histamine-releasing reactions in the body. So that's a double win.
It's worth comparing post O Vit C versus methionine to see which has a better effect for you.
Note, please do not take Vitamin C immediately after NADH. It will just destroy the NADH.
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So I went to the grocery store today, and I realized that this is going to be a real challenge for me. My current diet/food plan is to buy frozen meat/vegitables in bulk, and cook them all at one time so I can use the leftovers throughout the week. The problem is that the less fresh your food is, the more it is going to increase your histamine.
I'm in trouble if I am going to change this, as I struggle with motivation throughout my life because of the never ending POIS feelings and the mental illness I have developed over the years. There are so many things I don't do that I should be, like cleaning the giant mess of clothes on my closet floor or getting my homework done for classes. Cooking daily is just gonna be rough.
I'm not one to give up easily though, and if I get a good few days in of this diet maybe I will feel well enough to continue at that pace.!!!
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I feel u , cooking Is time consuming
I did paleo diet it is also strict
Best solution was baking can cook and do other things ,,
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So I went to the grocery store today, and I realized that this is going to be a real challenge for me. My current diet/food plan is to buy frozen meat/vegitables in bulk, and cook them all at one time so I can use the leftovers throughout the week. The problem is that the less fresh your food is, the more it is going to increase your histamine.
I'm in trouble if I am going to change this, as I struggle with motivation throughout my life because of the never ending POIS feelings and the mental illness I have developed over the years. There are so many things I don't do that I should be, like cleaning the giant mess of clothes on my closet floor or getting my homework done for classes. Cooking daily is just gonna be rough.
I'm not one to give up easily though, and if I get a good few days in of this diet maybe I will feel well enough to continue at that pace.!!!
Maybe you can do all the chopping, cleaning pre-preparation and put things in separate baggies, if not once per week at least maybe only twice.
Then at meal time just throw it all together to cook it.
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found this nightnhale
http://thelowhistaminechef.com/low-histamine-cookbooks/
http://www.amazon.com/What-Living-Histamine-Intolerance-ebook/dp/B004PLNOBM
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If someone found a way to increase DAO without DAOsin suplementation so I would really be thankfull. I would buy The Low Histamine Diamine Oxidase Support Cookbook from the site above but i dont have a credit card... :(
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If someone found a way to increase DAO without DAOsin suplementation so I would really be thankfull. I would buy The Low Histamine Diamine Oxidase Support Cookbook from the site above but i dont have a credit card... :(
I contacted the lowhistaminechef and it seems the histrelief product she was taking won't make it to the market as the microbiologist who helped diagnose the illness is seriously ill and has effectively retired from medical practice and company.
The other way to reduce histamine is the methylation route. So that's either rmethionine / SAM-e or
methylated b vitamins with the possibility it's a MTHFR genetic mutation problem. Shipping costs to my country for stuff like thorne methyl-guard are crazy.
I need to do some research to find a good supplier.
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Kurtosis i tried DAOsin but I get kind of allergic reaction after taking it, rash on my skin in the belly area and stomach pain. They say its hypoallergic but i think my body see the enzyme like a foreign protein because it is from swine not human.
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i tried histame, and didnt notice any relief from minor symptoms, but after eating a large, but histamine-free meal, and hour or two later, symptoms got worse. it could have been the meal, it could have been the symptoms coming and going randomly.
the bottle says "warning: this product is not effective with immune system-based food allergies, or with peanut, wheat, gluten allergy symptoms."
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i tried histame, and didnt notice any relief from minor symptoms, but after eating a large, but histamine-free meal, and hour or two later, symptoms got worse. it could have been the meal, it could have been the symptoms coming and going randomly.
the bottle says "warning: this product is not effective with immune system-based food allergies, or with peanut, wheat, gluten allergy symptoms."
That just means it's not designed to treat a reaction to a substance that you're allergic to as opposed to something that contains high levels of histamine.
I've never eaten a histamine free meal myself.
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Kurtosis i tried DAOsin but I get kind of allergic reaction after taking it, rash on my skin in the belly area and stomach pain. They say its hypoallergic but i think my body see the enzyme like a foreign protein because it is from swine not human.
How many times have you taken it? It's more likely, based on the chemistry, that the result you're feeling is histame actually working and converting histamine into an aldehyde which your body may not be used to clearing in such large quantities.
Specifically, from Schwelberger's article on the metabolism of histamine.
Diamine Oxidase uses molecular oxygen to oxidatively deaminate histamine to imidazole acetaldehyde, ammonia and hydrogen peroxide
Imagine that we have really high levels of histamine and have been living with it for years. It's really unlikely we'd just take a pill and everything would normalise with no discomfort. Remember, when I first started taking methionine I did so with the anti-fungals. I had one of the worst weeks of my life in terms of stomach pains and headaches and then.. it improved dramatically...
NAD is a co-factor in clearing acetaldehyde so taking some NADH may improve things.
Why do you think that you're getting a reaction to a hypoallergenic enzyme and why do you think that the porcine origin of synthetic DAO is a problem?
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Dont know a got some acne type spots on my abdomen area, it look like my body wanted to get rid of something. And I got 2 days POIS after taking it. Because POIS means histamine realease so such feeling would mean i got an allergic reaction to it.. Im afraid to try it again because it was so unpleasent, but the reaction i got was not immediately but after 5 hours.
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Dont know a got some acne type spots on my abdomen area, it look like my body wanted to get rid of something. And I got 2 days POIS after taking it. Because POIS means histamine realease so such feeling would mean i got an allergic reaction to it.. Im afraid to try it again because it was so unpleasent, but the reaction i got was not immediately but after 5 hours.
You could contact the manufacturer and ask them if they've ever seen this reaction before? I read some of their papers and I don't think they've seen a similar reaction but it's worth checking.
But as the output of diamine oxidase combining with histamine is itself a toxin that requires NAD to deactivate it in the body, the simplest answer may be that your body is simply not used to histamine being deactivated that quickly. The reaction also produces ammonia and hydrogen peroxide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amine_oxidase_(copper-containing)
DAOSIN has a fixed amount of diamine oxidase / tablet (approximately of course) so it when you take it it will clear as much histamine as comes in contact with the DAO enzymes in the tablet. Say your body doesn't produce adequate DAO normally, this may give your body a bit of a shock.
I'd say contact the manufacturer (at http://histame.com/) and see if they've seen the reaction before but I doubt it has anything to do with your body reacting to it because the enzyme was extracted from a pig. It's an synthetic enzyme which is very different from a transplant of living tissue which your scenario seems to suggest.
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I'm starting a low histamine ans hustamine liberator diet ; wanna see if there is any impact.
An other possibility to verify that theory would be to eat beer/wine, cheese, white eggs and histamine liberator for 2/3 days, see what happens and then go to low histamine diet...I'm pretty sure, if the theory is the good one, the results will be pretty obvious
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I get a rash if I drink wine and a sinus headache if I eat cheese.
Whatever about anybody else, I feel pretty confident a low histamine diet is a good idea for me :)
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I'm starting a low histamine ans hustamine liberator diet ; wanna see if there is any impact.
An other possibility to verify that theory would be to eat beer/wine, cheese, white eggs and histamine liberator for 2/3 days, see what happens and then go to low histamine diet...I'm pretty sure, if the theory is the good one, the results will be pretty obvious
White eggs are a good source of methionine. Doesn't that mean they would be part of a low histamine diet?
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I'm starting a low histamine ans hustamine liberator diet ; wanna see if there is any impact.
An other possibility to verify that theory would be to eat beer/wine, cheese, white eggs and histamine liberator for 2/3 days, see what happens and then go to low histamine diet...I'm pretty sure, if the theory is the good one, the results will be pretty obvious
White eggs are a good source of methionine. Doesn't that mean they would be part of a low histamine diet?
Perhaps but methionine is really cheap to supplement.
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I'm starting a low histamine ans hustamine liberator diet ; wanna see if there is any impact.
An other possibility to verify that theory would be to eat beer/wine, cheese, white eggs and histamine liberator for 2/3 days, see what happens and then go to low histamine diet...I'm pretty sure, if the theory is the good one, the results will be pretty obvious
White eggs are a good source of methionine. Doesn't that mean they would be part of a low histamine diet?
I have no idea ; just read several time raw egg withe released histamine :
http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.com/pages/lowhistamine.htm
The problem with all that is histadelia is very controversial ; not recognized by the medical community ; I know it's utopic but sometimes I would like to have this simple disease, well identified, with a simple cure...
The allergy specialist i saw last week just told me there was no histamine intolerence...but he was really not the kind of open minded/curious guy
I found this article(controversial) but interesting..symptoms match pretty well :
http://drkaslow.com/html/histadelia.html
Maybe you guy's in the states can talk to him ??
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i wrote in the fungal infection thread about feeling better after cutting bread from diet
i did some reading about histamine and it seem that the yeast added to bread cause histamine release! (its in the pdf kurtosis provided)
also i've abstained from O for a week and feeling alot better exepct i eated corn cheese chips(cheetos) and got a realy terrible pois :(
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The histamine theory is more about mast cell instability to be honest but here are my methylation genes.
Thanks to http://geneticgenie.org
I've made the things that are anomalies bold and those that are double mutations are underlined.
methylation analysis via gene genie.
Gene & Variation rsID Alleles Result
COMT V158M rs4680 GG -/-
COMT H62H rs4633 CC -/-
COMT -61 P199P rs769224 GG -/-
VDR Bsm rs1544410 CT +/-
VDR Taq rs731236 AG +/-
VDR Fok I
MAO A R297R rs6323 T +
ACAT1-02 rs3741049 GG -/-
MTHFR C677T rs1801133 AG +/-
MTHFR 03 P39P rs2066470 GG -/-
MTHFR A1298C rs1801131 GT +/-
MTR A2756G rs1805087 AA -/-
MTRR A66G rs1801394 AG +/-
MTRR H595Y rs10380 CT +/-
MTRR K350A rs162036 AG +/-
MTRR R415T rs2287780 CC -/-
MTRR S275T
MTRR A664A rs1802059 AG +/-
BHMT-01
BHMT-02 rs567754 CC -/-
BHMT-04 rs617219 AA -/-
BHMT-08 rs651852 CT +/-
ACHY-01 rs819147 CT +/-
ACHY-02 rs819134 AG +/-
ACHY-19 rs819171 CT +/-
CBS C699T rs234706 AG +/-
CBS A360A rs1801181 AG +/-
CBS N212N rs2298758 GG -/-
SUOX S370S
NOS 3 D298E
SHMT1 C1420T rs1979277 AG +/-
So that's MAO A (impacts histamine metabolism) and a bunch of MTHFR/MTRR and CBS mutations.
Interesting.
I've been taking that thorne extra nutrients for a while and it seems to work pretty well for me. I'm still taking NADH which will help recycle BH4.
I can recommend adding a lot of blueberries to your diet as they seem to be useful at reducing neurological inflammation, contain methylated b vitamins (according to some research studies I read) and blueberry extract is pretty cheap.
Drugs like singulair and ketotifen may reduce the negative effects of mast cell instability, although I'm concerned about the phenylalanine in singulair for those with low BH4.
Apart from that, not sure what to report. I feel pretty good.
Thanks to everyone who has shared their genetic information with me. Perhaps they could add methylation details here as I have done. It's really easy to take your 23andme results. I don't expect everyone to have the same but I have seen commonality of low bh4, at least one methylation double mutation & 2 MAO A mutations in 4 results.
Merry Christmas everyone. :)
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i wrote in the fungal infection thread about feeling better after cutting bread from diet
i did some reading about histamine and it seem that the yeast added to bread cause histamine release! (its in the pdf kurtosis provided)
also i've abstained from O for a week and feeling alot better exepct i eated corn cheese chips(cheetos) and got a realy terrible pois :(
http://www.msgexposed.com/cheetos-and-msg-bringing-new-meaning-to-the-slogan-dangerously-cheesy/
It took me some time to discover that Mono-sodium Glutamate worsened my POIS symptoms. I bet this is what happened to you. Cheetos has a lot of glutamate and Glutamate causes horribly POIS symptoms(at least when you're in POIS, but you can be sensitive to it.) Don't eat cheetos or things that could contain Glutamate...
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i wrote in the fungal infection thread about feeling better after cutting bread from diet
i did some reading about histamine and it seem that the yeast added to bread cause histamine release! (its in the pdf kurtosis provided)
also i've abstained from O for a week and feeling alot better exepct i eated corn cheese chips(cheetos) and got a realy terrible pois :(
http://www.msgexposed.com/cheetos-and-msg-bringing-new-meaning-to-the-slogan-dangerously-cheesy/
It took me some time to discover that Mono-sodium Glutamate worsened my POIS symptoms. I bet this is what happened to you. Cheetos has a lot of glutamate and Glutamate causes horribly POIS symptoms(at least when you're in POIS, but you can be sensitive to it.) Don't eat cheetos or things that could contain Glutamate...
It's very difficult to avoid glutamate... When I realized that it made me worse, I started checking the labels. Basically one has to try to eat fresh. Even spaghetti sauce should be made from natural fresh ingredients.
Glutamate even out of POIS sometimes makes my ears throb and ring, and gives me a strange sensation in the head.
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Old topic. But I am interested in a low histamine diet since I have hives. I read that it is better to avoid strawberry’s. But I added them to my diet because it is good against candida. Also yoghurt and kefir. I saw a list of histamine food. I think the most difficult to avoid is tomato.
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Old topic. But I am interested in a low histamine diet since I have hives. I read that it is better to avoid strawberry’s. But I added them to my diet because it is good against candida. Also yoghurt and kefir. I saw a list of histamine food. I think the most difficult to avoid is tomato.
I am sure that my hives problem has to do with histamine. I am going to stop with kefir, yoghurt and strawberry’s. And reduce other foods with high histamine. I think food and antibiotics caused the hives.
I am going to buy DAO. Check this research:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29698966
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I already tried DAOSIN, it had zero effect on me.
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I already tried DAOSIN, it had zero effect on me.
But did you also followed a low histamine diet? Anyway, I already ordered it. I will try it for a month and will report back after a month.
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I already tried DAOSIN, it had zero effect on me.
Have you tried Nalcrom (Sodium cromoglycate)? I read that also people with mast cell syndrome use Nalcrom.
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How to boost DAO (she gives a few medical publications where she got her information from):
https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2018/03/19/boost-your-dao-levels-to-fight-histamine/
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I found this website quite interesting: https://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/introduction_outline.html
(At least the German language version of it)
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Muon, what is your experience with a low histamine diet? Seems to be recommended by both https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/en/introduction.html and https://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/introduction_outline.html to manage the disease (not cure it).
Note that you need to stick to it for several days (or maybe even longer). You should see improvements in general well being (independent of POIS..).
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Water and salt are the best anti histamines in the world
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Water and salt are the best anti histamines in the world
By the way, this dehydration threead might interest you:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3322.msg34757
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Muon, what is your experience with a low histamine diet?
I don't have any experience with a low histamine diet. Video snippet: https://youtu.be/6gfTFwJgIVQ?t=4631
I wonder if anyone tried a diet high in flavonoids.
Water and salt are the best anti histamines in the world
You could check literature which salts have those properties.