POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => Hormonal Causes and Treatments => Topic started by: nickman on January 08, 2013, 11:21:41 PM
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I'm 18 years old and have suffered from pois for sure for about 3 or 4 yeara but trying to figure out some things Iwas curious if anyone has mild or severe anxiety? I have been previously diagnosed with mild anxiety a because I always had a problem with crowds or unfamiliar places and usually get stomach aches and random uncontrollable sweating...? Anyone else? Or does this not coorolate?
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nickman, welcome! Yes, you will find many instances of anxiety here.
Please visit our Welcome Post:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg1#msg1
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I've always had severe social anxiety and that has worsened from POIS. Not only have the symptoms increased my anxiety indirectly by impairing my cognitive and physical strength and thus decreasing my self confidence, but also directly through some biological pathway.
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I also would look at it from the other perspective. Anxiety worsens your POIS symptoms. I think we're in some kind of feed-back loop, as stress can induce POIS-feeling(this has occurred to me in several occasions without having an Orgasm), but a POIS-feeling can cause more anxiety and stress. This surely would be investigated in the NORD research grant(we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but if everyone helps with some amount- it does not matter how much-, we will have more answers very soon!)
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The other day, a memory from 8 years ago came back to me.
Just 3 weeks- one month before getting POIS for first time after Orgasm, I had the high-school's end-year graduation so I had very mixed feelings at that moment. From one hand I was feeling very excited, but from the other hand I was also stressed with the final exams, and I did not want the end of the academic year(At this moment, it was probably the best year of my life!) . That day I felt some brain-fog, weird feeling that I'd describe now as an small POIS... That "strange episode" ended when the graduation's party began ;D and it did not repeat itself after 1 month, when I began to experience the horrible POIS symptoms...
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Hi,
I m not 100% sure but I think my POIS started after a period of stress and high anxiety. Anyway, lots of men have anxiety and very stressful lives and don?t have POIS. What I?m 100% sure is that my symptoms got worse after a period when I had been practicing lots of sport (I was preparing for a half marathon and was looking forward to doing a very good result) and at the same time I wasn?t eating correctly and found myself very fatigue for most of the time, but still kept training (I was trying to lose some weight and wasn?t eating enough). You have to add to all of this I had exams and also, I was applying to some job offers. I was quite stressed because of this.
Since my POIS got worse, I have been suffering from high anxiety, probably depression and panic attacks.
PBO.
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I used to have social anxiety, but I couldn't really blame that on POIS. POIS did increase and initiate my anxieties but by forcing yourself to be in different social situations, you can help define yourself outside of POIS... and not make POIS define you!
With that said, when I am having symtoms of POIS, I become a completely different person. Introverted, and brain dead.
But in non-pois, I'm decently extrovert.
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I used to have social anxiety, but I couldn't really blame that on POIS. POIS did increase and initiate my anxieties but by forcing yourself to be in different social situations, you can help define yourself outside of POIS... and not make POIS define you!
With that said, when I am having symtoms of POIS, I become a completely different person. Introverted, and brain dead.
But in non-pois, I'm decently extrovert.
There's such a crazy line between in-POIS and out of POIS, and what effects POIS has and what are just part of a regular you!
Most of us could probably say that we have had times out of POIS and that we feel much better, mentally and socially healthier, yet ACTUALLY
defining what is caused by POIS or what is latent in you and worsened or brought out by POIS is all a different thing.
You are right though Suppertime, that being conscious of at least the differences that are obvious, one can direct his activities and consciousness to
areas that are safe for the current condition.
It helps to remember who you really are (that good and real part of you that comes out when you have gone a good time without orgasm), when you are in full POIS.
It's so difficult and in POIS you become so immersed in this POIS personality that you hardly remember what it's like to be normal. But when you ARE normal,
it's really worth while soaking it in and trying to record it into your soul, so that you can remember it, if not feel it a little when you are the POIS monster.
It just occurred to me that one might try to record (on Video or audio) a message to yourself for when you are in POIS. If anyone wants to give that a try,
maybe you can let us know what happens.
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Audio/video in POIS is an interesting idea. In 30+ years of POIS, I never thought of doing that.
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I have fear of public speaking. I went to psych doc and she thinks I have generalized anxiety. I was put on ssri once and it drove me nuts. I strongly believe that POIS and anxiety are related.
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I think, our anxiety may be because of low initiative and thinking capacity during POIS
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I think, our anxiety may be because of low initiative and thinking capacity during POIS
Yes, that's what I thought at the beginning ; No I think it's quite the opposite ; Anxiety cause POIS ; this summer I crashed emotionaly because of a bad job experience(due to POIS experienced)..I Was very stress and anxious about the future...My POIS symtoms was just worse that ever
I also figured that when I drink some beers, most of my POIS symtoms disapears
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Yes, it's a sort of vicious circle!
Stress aggravates POIS, POIS aggravates stress. Part of the POIS breakdown overstresses the weakend adrenal system.
Things like beer and marijuana therefore do help, at least to break the cycle for a while.
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Crazy anxiety, tomorrow I'll be conversing with someone unfamiliar to me & that always gets me a bit anxious in the beginning. After a while the anxiety goes away as I become more familiar with the person. Without POIS though, it would be almost no problem and I'd have way more confidence.
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There is something interesting about stress and anxiety ; It's an heritage of our cro magnon brain ; front of a danger, your reptilian brain will trigger a fight or flight reaction ; basicly I'll it the tiger or being eaten by it...your brain will release chemical in oder to prepare the body...That is suppose to happen 20 minutes...If it's too often you over consume the chemical involved in the danger reaction and get tired...there is a direct link here with adrenals...and adrenals fatigue
What is really interesting is the other function of anxiety is to focus in the problem until you solve it ; you face a danger, you need to solve and you can think only about it...when you focus, all the rest get blurry, fogged..it's like photography...POIS is a problem, It makes the future uncertain, creates anxiety, creates brain fog...build up POIS...and so on
When i have an O...I expect POIS to happen...it makes me anxious...it makes me focus so much on myself, what i feel, what I telle, etc...it's produce fatigue and brain fog...that makes me more anxious...and so on
Think about it...it's definitely helps..a lot
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Hey Lapoisse,Prancer,Daveman and all POISers i want to add something very important about the connection between anxiety/stress and POIS for me.
I find that if i stress too much myself,and think negative about POIS i get symptoms! I dont know how this is happening but it seems that in stressing
periods i get POIS symptoms without necessarily having masturbated or sexually aroused.
I have also mention it before but noone paid attention.Have you ever notice it too guys ? Are we talking about the same thing here ?
Its like a second cause of POIS for me.The symptoms arent in the same intensity as after ejaculation but still its symptoms.
I dont know if anyone gets symptoms when stressed (no matter if he is in a POIS session or not) but im sure that stress makes everyone symptoms worse.
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Hey Lapoisse,Prancer,Daveman and all POISers i want to add something very important about the connection between anxiety/stress and POIS for me.
I find that if i stress too much myself,and think negative about POIS i get symptoms! I dont know how this is happening but it seems that in stressing
periods i get POIS symptoms without necessarily having masturbated or sexually aroused.
I have also mention it before but noone paid attention.Have you ever notice it too guys ? Are we talking about the same thing here ?
Its like a second cause of POIS for me.The symptoms arent in the same intensity as after ejaculation but still its symptoms.
I dont know if anyone gets symptoms when stressed (no matter if he is in a POIS session or not) but im sure that stress makes everyone symptoms worse.
I've noticed the following, especially that with Viagra I don't really have POIS anymore.
I am just about what I consider to be "normal". I forget that yesterday I had sex for instance, but stress or certain things trigger aches and pains that are similar to some POIS symptoms. This can be on day 1 or day 8. As you say, they aren't of the same magnitude, but can even provoke a light brain-fog, or particularly muscle or nerve pains.
My weakest point is my neck and soulders. If this inflames, I can get headaches, back aches, heart arythmias, and even brain-fog. The whole neck area is very important, there are a lot of nerves inter communicating there.
So stress can be very hard on that area, it's natural, you tense your shoulders and neck with tension. There's a reflex, to associate the pain/sensations with POIS, even though it may not be POIS. POIS, I know in my case, swells soft connective tissue, which of course will affect my already sensitive neck area. So years of this 1) makes the area more sensitive, and 2) sensitizes me to associative feelings, making it seem as though I have POIS when the area may be otherwise affected.
I was reading something the other day, I don't remember where now, where they actually showed that pain involves a lot more than the sensations of the precise point being "stimulated". Whole areas feel like they hurt when only a common center is stimulated, and visa-versa, when the surrounding area is stimulated, you believe that the central point is being stimulated.
Pain is very complex. A good deal of pain is in the memory and associated more with fear than with the pain itself. Fear -> stress, stress -> pain.
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Hey Lapoisse,Prancer,Daveman and all POISers i want to add something very important about the connection between anxiety/stress and POIS for me.
I find that if i stress too much myself,and think negative about POIS i get symptoms! I dont know how this is happening but it seems that in stressing
periods i get POIS symptoms without necessarily having masturbated or sexually aroused.
I have also mention it before but noone paid attention.Have you ever notice it too guys ? Are we talking about the same thing here ?
Its like a second cause of POIS for me.The symptoms arent in the same intensity as after ejaculation but still its symptoms.
I dont know if anyone gets symptoms when stressed (no matter if he is in a POIS session or not) but im sure that stress makes everyone symptoms worse.
Yes, stress can trigger some symptoms for me too. Also for some reason I get bad pois symptoms sometimes after taking a hot shower.
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Oh man, the anxiety is more apparent to me now. The past two month, I abstained from masturbation and sex. Felt almost zero anxiety. I didn't feel amazing but I felt normal at least. I even had job interviews and I felt confident in myself... didn't have much to hide.
I masturbated on Tuesday without ejaculation. I feel quite bad, groggy, and an overwhelming anxiety. I have an interview tomorrow and I don't feel ready for it - when I usually do.
And then it hit me, I remember in university when I was living in residence. I never wanted to leave my room. So before class I would be in my room gaming, and then after class I would go back to my room to avoid any social contact. And now I realize why I had that.
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In
Oh man, the anxiety is more apparent to me now. The past two month, I abstained from masturbation and sex. Felt almost zero anxiety. I didn't feel amazing but I felt normal at least. I even had job interviews and I felt confident in myself... didn't have much to hide.
I masturbated on Tuesday without ejaculation. I feel quite bad, groggy, and an overwhelming anxiety. I have an interview tomorrow and I don't feel ready for it - when I usually do.
And then it hit me, I remember in university when I was living in residence. I never wanted to leave my room. So before class I would be in my room gaming, and then after class I would go back to my room to avoid any social contact. And now I realize why I had that.
In some occasions, when i feel bad due to POIS , i tend to avoid leaving home. But since this is an interview and you cant avoid, the best thing for you to do
is to relax and get ready for it in every way you can. In my experience, i find that if i dont stop stressing myself and worrying the symptoms will continue to be
unberable.So take it calm and smooth, and dont overworry. We dont really have any other choice (except if you have some treatment) so try not to make
things worser.Good luck man and be strong.
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Hi Guys,
This below is an edited version of something I posted on another area on the site.
It relates to the stress response and the relaxation response. There is some credible links for Harvard / Massachusetts Gen hospital in USA where the relaxation response has been used to help with pain management and symptom reduction.
Hope it relates to the discussion here in a meaningful way.
As you probably know, one of the main reasons for anxiety is what is termed the "Stress Response". Especially in POIS. I actually studied this on a course a decade back (general anxiety and stress) through Harvard Mind Body Medical Institute (now the Benson Henry Institute at Massachussetts General Hospital in USA ).
To address and reverse this stress response and have our mind in a place where sleep is more likely, we need a "Relaxation Response" to encourage a degree of mental calm.
In medical parlance, this is basically a reversal of adrenaline, noradrenaline and cortisol in the blood stream, if I remember correctly. Stops the fight/flight type normal human reaction to a stressor (such as in bad POIS).
Won't clear everything, but can help a bit.
While all of this you may feel wouldn't apply with your situation, it may more than you realise, however, the relaxation response needs to be practiced regularly (even ten minutes morning and night time each day) to help you sleep. After a while, it might not need twice per day. Please note I am talking symptom reducing and better feelings here, and not a cure for anything.
An online credible medical resource I am providing here for your potential review. You can visit here for more information on (see links for Stress, Relaxation Response, Physical Activity, Nutrition, & Managing Stress) Link is http://www.massgeneral.org/bhi/basics/
Relaxation / Meditation CD's on iTunes http://www.massgeneral.org/bhi/store/default.aspx
There are also, as you know, many relaxation CD's and tons of stuff on you tube for calming the mind a bit. You need one or two you really personally like.
There are many other methods for achieving this "quieter mental state" like light Yoga, Meditation etc etc. The easy to learn one I have mentioned, The "Relaxation Response" just happens to come from a credible medical source origin "Harvard" & now "Massachusetts general hospital, USA".
For anti-anxiety, the best advice I can offer anyone (just my opinion, not fact) is to start to practice relaxing, 10 mins am, and 10 mins late pm. Build it into a habit, so that your system can slow down your thoughts, your metabolism, and hence your mind, so you can feel more like sleeping.
The relaxation needs the practice and habit building to potentially help with POIS symptom reduction.
Relaxation always helped me a bit (with symptom reduction), but that is possibly because I personally forced myself to go through the habit of building a practice.
Unfortunately the anxious mind, in my experience, does not always want to do practice, it wants to be in control, but you can do it, if you try.
The good Dr, Dr. Benson From Harvard Medical School Mind Body Institute ?.(who started his research studies around the Relaxation Response and basic meditation? many decades back) explains in this video link http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7392433
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I'm uncomfortable making eye contact for too long. Instead, I glance to the side while talking.
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too much anxiety yes
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I always underestimated the role of anxiety in my POIS. I think in my case anxiety causes a lot of POIS symptoms. Here are a few:
Passing gas
Troubled intestines
Lack of sleep
After an O I can not sleep. And when I fall asleep I wake up after a few hours. When I take a nap in the afternoon on day 1 my POIS gets less worse.
Now even when not in POIS I have troubles with anxiety. When I am driving or when I am in the line at the grocery store. Also when I start with sexual activity I feel anxiety, tension. When I go to the toilet after the sexual activity there is a lot of passing gas. Showering after sex helps a bit. But on day 1 my skin is very fat, my forehead shines like there is oil on it. I read that some guys do yoga to get less anxiety. I am thinking about taking boxing lessons to get out of my comfort zone. What do you guys do to reduce anxiety?
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I have anxiety too. One thing I noticed is that the anxiety goes away if I relax my jaw fully. This is not easy and requires at least 15 minutes of concentration, but the result is night and day. Anxiety is gone.
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Scratching the skin can activate the mast cells as per this study.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/scratching-skin-primes-gut-allergic-reactions-food-mouse-study-suggests
Hot/cold showers can also cause a similar result because skin is stimulated during showering.
For me shaving the face cleanly, can give mild pois symptoms.
For Nanna1 scratching his chin can cause mild pois. All these point out the involvement of mast cells in our skin.
Hence once again Mast cell disorders come into play in causing our symptoms.
Virus activation theory looks good but a viral infection cannot keep on activating and deactivating again and again and will never respond to antihistamines,TRT,niacin,taurine and other mast cell stabilizers.
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Skin seems to play a role, there was some speculation a while back about why POIS seems to be reduced during summer time for some people.
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skin does matter a lot to me
when i as born i had severe dry skin and eczema
i have started, since 6 months back, using a swedish product called "q for skin" and its a gamechanger
www.qforskin.se
it is made of black current and is miraculous for my skin
today i could not function without it
has saved my job and income
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I ate tons of apples all my life but now it seems even apples give me diarrheas. :/
So I started Fodmap diet too. Fructose seems to be an ennemy for me now :/
I'm taking probiotics now but only this week. I'm not sure taking probiotics for a long time is a good thing.
And to answer to the initial question : yes I'm a a super-anxious guy in and out of Pois !
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I have POIS and some social and general anxiety as well as mild OCD.
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Article in Dutch about how an auto immune disease can cause depression
https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/het-ontstoken-brein-hoe-een-verstoord-immuunsysteem-tot-psychische-problemen-kan-leiden~b9a0f8bf/
Google translate it in your language.
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Article in Dutch about how an auto immune disease can cause depression
https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/het-ontstoken-brein-hoe-een-verstoord-immuunsysteem-tot-psychische-problemen-kan-leiden~b9a0f8bf/
Google translate it in your language.
Interesting article , Vandemolen ( I do not read Dutch, but I used the new online translator, DeepL.com, that is so better than google translator or any other !).
What they describe matches the hypothesis I have written about here, that some cytokines create inflammation in the brain, and cause anxiety, depression, mood swngs, and the like ( see my posts on the kynurenine pathways).
Here is a part of the article, translated ( with no correction, just copy and paste of what DeepL gives) :
" Incorrectly adjusted
By now it is clear that as soon as an inflammation occurs somewhere, immune cells produce cytokines, a kind of chemical messenger substances that promote their mutual communication. These cytokines can travel to the brain, where they cause miscommunications between nerve cells, especially in areas of the brain that regulate mood. Patients with autoimmune diseases persistently produce a lot of cytokines, which can do their depressing work in the brain.
Can do. After all, not all people with an autoimmune disease suffer from psychological problems. Drexhage: 'We know that the cytokine route is one of the routes from an autoimmune disease to mood disorders. But there is also another. Autoimmune diseases and part of the mood disorders have the same underlying abnormality in the immune system: it is misaligned. In one patient, these misaligned immune cells attack his own body, resulting in an autoimmune disease. In other patients, the incorrectly adjusted immune cells are mainly found in the brain. If those immune cells, called microglia in the brain, are constantly in combat mode, they have no time for their other important task: building and maintaining the brain. With the ultimate consequence: a mental disorder.
In unlucky birds, such a misaligned immune system leads to both: an autoimmune disease plus a mental disorder.
Steven Wester (47) is such an unlucky man. He has sarcoidosis, an immunologically determined inflammatory disease that attacks your own organs. It started with a pneumothorax in 2006. His job as an electrician became an impossible one. Eventually the work at the office became too hard for him. I have so little energy. I have to choose between my family and my work, because I need 12 to 16 hours of sleep'.
When he had to give up work, he became depressed by everything that had happened. At least that's what Wester said. But three years ago a psychiatrist diagnosed an autistic disorder, nothing depression.
Enlightening thought.
That's when all the pieces of the puzzle fell into place,' says Wester. I've always found it difficult to cope with stimuli. There was always the threat of panic if things turned out differently than I had thought. That was difficult, but I could live with it. Now that I have so many problems with it: sarcoidosis, fatigue, forced unemployment, my autistic disorder plays a much bigger role. I already panic when I run out of peanut butter.
That his sarcoidosis and autism are both the result of a misaligned immune system has not been proven. "But it's an enlightening thought for me. The weakness I feel psychologically feels so much like a physical thing. I feel better understood.'
In the latest large-scale European research into the immune system and mental disorders (Moodstratification), Drexhage and his European colleagues are going to intervene for the first time in (small numbers of) patients to correct the immune system and thus improve mood regulation. Subjects suffering from severe depression - in whom the immune system seems to suffer most from premature aging - will receive experimental medication against autoimmune diseases.
The effect on mood of intensive exercise twice a week is also studied. Sport is known to alleviate depression and prevent premature ageing of the immune system. Subjects with bipolar disorder - whose immune cells are probably too sharply focused because they have too little of it - are given means to stimulate the thymus to produce more immune cells.
Severe stress
A disrupted immune system can be a hereditary issue, which may or may not bother you. Or that you only get problems after a pregnancy, because the immune system is challenged even more. Or where you only suffer after severe stress due to a major setback in your life. A disturbed immune system can also be the result of a serious trauma incurred during childhood. Drexhage: 'Prolonged stress in childhood puts the immune system on edge. That has now been established. What we are actually doing with our research is making serious psychological problems biologically explicable. On a cellular level.'
That doesn't mean that a patient can't be helped with psychotherapy, Drexhage emphasizes. That can help you to be more resistant to stress. You shouldn't underestimate the effect of stress reduction, learning to relax and behavioural changes, even if there is a biological cause. I only hope that the psychiatrist will refer you to the hospital if there is a possible physical cause for the mood problems, so that they can be treated'.
The results of Moodstratification are expected in 2022. If the patients benefit from the interventions, experiments can start with really large groups of patients. It will take at least another ten years, Drexhage estimates, before psychiatric patients will benefit from these insights."
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Quantum, thanks for DeepL!
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Thanks, Vandemolen
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Yes Quantum, Bjim and others posted about cytokines and inflammation in the brain. It is weird that in 2020 the mind and the body are still separated. When my family doctor said that my latest POIS like symptoms (sweating, hot flushes and bad sleep) are caused by a burnout my POIS doctor said that it only can be a burnout caused by physical problems (auto immune) and not work related. So that is why he sended me to an immunologist. I have to go there back by the end of the month.
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I think my anxiety is caused by bad sleep. And my bad sleep is because of a stuffy nose. When asleep I wake up a few times because I can not breathe in a proper way.