POISCENTER
General Category => Articles, References and Links => Topic started by: demografx on July 24, 2021, 01:17:49 PM
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Google Alert
Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome
As-it-happens update July 23, 2021
WEB
Cells | Free Full-Text | Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) and Delayed Onset Muscle ...
MDPI
Post orgasmic illness syndrome is a rare, mysterious condition with an unknown pathomechanism and uncertain treatment. The symptoms of post ...
https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4409/10/8/1867
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Amazing find Demo.
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Thanks for posting this Demo!
This is actually a really interesting read with a different take. And it offers avenues less explored such as Spermidine supplements to compensate for spermidine depletion after ejaculation. A diet high in spermidine rich foods is an option too.
"The spermidine depletion-induced differences are as follows: modulation of
the acute stress response, flu-like symptoms, opioid-like withdrawal and enhanced deregulation of
the autonomic nervous system. The longitudinal dimension of delayed onset muscle soreness, in the
form of post orgasmic illness syndrome and the repeated bout effect, have cognitive and memory
consequences, since the primary injury is learning and memory-related."
Sounds familiar. They also mentioned Heart Rate Variation going lower which is something I have noticed for myself since I monitor my HRV daily.
They mention "cardiac autonomic full recovery" happening after POIS has passed. My HRV clearly goes down by several points during POIS.
I hope they will build up therapeutic interventions following this hypothesis.
Google
Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome
As-it-happens update July 23, 2021
WEB
Cells | Free Full-Text | Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) and Delayed Onset Muscle ...
MDPI
Post orgasmic illness syndrome is a rare, mysterious condition with an unknown pathomechanism and uncertain treatment. The symptoms of post ...
https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4409/10/8/1867
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Thanks for posting this Demo!
My pleasure! Often Google Alerts only dig up POIS “hype”, so I am delighted that you - - and Muon - - liked it!!
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That study probably deserves its own thread. Myself and others on this forum experience terrible DOMS in the days after exercise, as well as a POIS-like episode. What the authors might be missing is that the discomfort and pain of DOMS, even in normal people, is largely caused by histamine. Normal people can even take a antihistamine drug before exercise in order to avoid DOMS in the days after. I will try the high spermidine diet they suggest but I can't help but wonder if histamine is still the issue. Thanks for the article Demo, it really made me think of some things I haven't considered before, like how much exercise is involved in my POIS.
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Thanks, drop247, best wishes.
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You could make a thread about it in the article, references and links category drop247.
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That study probably deserves its own thread.
Feel free to start one for DOMS!
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Maybe
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2373.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3609.0
There is additional (overlapping) terms in the CFS community like Post-exertional malaise (https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Post-exertional_malaise) and Exercise Intolerance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_intolerance)
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Admin Note: Split this off from https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3933
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Anyone tried this supplement yet ? Sperminide ?? What a name !
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…Sperminide ?? What a name !
;D
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Admin Note: Split this off from https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3933
Thanks, Berlin!
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I for one seem to be an exception here: I dont seem to experience significant excertional malaise. I can ride my bike for 50km per day and feel largely fine. Exercise even benefits my POIS after O.
Sperminidine seems also to be produced by certain gut bacteria. Perhaps those helped by changing their microbiome and feeling better were helped via this route.
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Yes I had thought about the same possibility. Messed up microbiome not producing certain vitamins anymore and also not producing spermidine anymore.
My single one day trial for spermidine: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3652.msg41646#msg41646
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An opinion on this article, by a friend in pm:
"Thanks for the article. I disagree with a lot of statements made there. First of all, theoretical studies without any experiments on mouse or human models (gene expression, not readily available blood tests etc.) are the pathway to nowhere. With the same success, I could attribute every POIS symptom to the loss of zinc in sperm. Pseudoscience seeks to prove a hypothesis correct whereas science seeks to prove it wrong. Moreover, I highly dislike the approach where they try to explain all POIS cases. This theory could be easily declined by simply providing cases where people experience POIS-symptoms just from arousal, and all that spermidine stuff goes into nowhere. This theory can't explain how so many people experience symptomatic relief from such substances as SSRIs, benzos, etc., neither how people were cured by specific dietary protocols. That said, I do not disregard the theory, but this study is completely inappropriate and can't be taken seriously. From my perspective, it is a bro-science anecdote."
I agree with the methodological criticisms, though I still welcome new ideas which can bring about further reflection.
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My Personal Experience disagrees to the basis of this hypothesis thats POIS related to muscle contractions during erection and ejaculation , for the simple reason that me and i remember other fellow POIS sufferers as well has stated that we discovered masturbation before puberty (which is more normal than you think because children are curious) and we experienced orgasm as well but of course it was dry , that orgasm before puberty ?dry orgasm? didnt result in POIS symptoms at all
Unless there is different muscles that are involved in orgasm after puberty , i highly doubt that this hypothesis has solid grounds to be true
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Dry orgasms are totally possible as an adult aswell....and in my case they do not cause POIS either
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Dry orgasms are totally possible as an adult aswell....and in my case they do not cause POIS either
That means the ejaculatory mechanism that develops during puberty is involved in POIS
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So probably the sperm itself since the contraction that causes the release should hardly cause anything else on it's own, right?
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Yes if i am only sure about one thing that causes pois , is wet ejaculation after puberty , because before puberty when i masturbated i didnt suffer any pois symptoms , i was playing wrestling and always got straight A?s in all my subjects with alot of ease
After puberty on the other-hand the correlation between ejaculation and pois symptoms were quite obvious to me , specially brain fog , i couldnt even count change if i am buying something from the store, you can imagine how school and exams and socializing were , physical symptoms such as muscle weakness and aches were present too , but the most traumatic experience for me was and still is the brain fog
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my weak orgasms cause much less pois
also abstaining and then doing one orgasm makes the pois less severe
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Anyone tried this supplement yet ? Sperminide ?? What a name !
;D
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Yes if i am only sure about one thing that causes pois , is wet ejaculation after puberty , because before puberty when i masturbated i didnt suffer any pois symptoms , i was playing wrestling and always got straight A?s in all my subjects with alot of ease
After puberty on the other-hand the correlation between ejaculation and pois symptoms were quite obvious to me , specially brain fog , i couldnt even count change if i am buying something from the store, you can imagine how school and exams and socializing were , physical symptoms such as muscle weakness and aches were present too , but the most traumatic experience for me was and still is the brain fog
EXACTLY THE SAME HERE
I discovered masturbation before my body could produce semen
And before that I had dry orgasms and ZERO POIS SYMPTOMS
I could do it 3-4 times a day and feel fine completely
POIS researchers must research how start of semen/prostate fluid production/sexual maturation/puberty are involved in the appearance of POIS
I wonder if someone has managed to turn off semen/prostate fluid production somehow and emulate the pre-puberty dry orgasms and see if they give POIS
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Since cutting out linoleic acid (seed oils / fried foods etc) around 1 year ago, I don't have this anymore.
Also no pain in morning-after-orgasm waking up.
I try to exclusively cook with coconut oil and have only butter as fat source plus beef/lamb meat. (No chicken, ideally no pork but that's hard)
Read more here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=427.msg42713#msg42713
It takes a while to change your body composition away from those bad fats.
https://www.google.com/search?q=PUFA+detox
I go to gym or swimming now every second/third day without pain.
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Another thing to consider when talking about PUFA is vitamin E. The more PUFA you eat, the more you need. And even when you change your diet, your vit E requirement remains increased for a year (or even two, can't recall how long exactly) if you were on a high PUFA diet. Just don't go overboard with it, most supplements have waaay too much.
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So none tried a spermidine supplement ?
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Berlin, could you move this thread to the articles, references and links category? It discusses a specific POIS paper.
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So none tried a spermidine supplement ?
At least two of us had tried spermidine, but only for a few days, without much results:
- berlin1984
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3652.msg41815#msg41815
- Progecitor (me)
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg44131#msg44131
I think it is worth mentioning that recently spermidine has been much discussed as an anti-aging supplement. This is associated with its ability to induce autophagy, which removes cellular debris (toxic protein aggregates, damaged organelles) maintaining a healthy homeostasis. For this very reason it is also considered in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases. I think this means it could be a good supplement when taken long-term, but one shouldn’t expect any miracle by taking it only on-demand. Sirt1 activators also induce autophagy and I generally had success with them. Though of course other possible mechanisms for spermidine have been already mentioned on the site.
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Since cutting out linoleic acid (seed oils / fried foods etc) around 1 year ago, I don't have this anymore.
Also no pain in morning-after-orgasm waking up.
I try to exclusively cook with coconut oil and have only butter as fat source plus beef/lamb meat. (No chicken, ideally no pork but that's hard)
Read more here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=427.msg42713#msg42713
It takes a while to change your body composition away from those bad fats.
https://www.google.com/search?q=PUFA+detox
I go to gym or swimming now every second/third day without pain.
Ray Peat has talked of it
PUFAs are used to produce inflammatory molecules by body including prostaglandins if I'm not mistaken
I wonder if full PUFA depletion combined with a pro-Metabolic Ray Peat diet could cure POIS
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An opinion on this article, by a friend in pm:
"Thanks for the article. I disagree with a lot of statements made there. First of all, theoretical studies without any experiments on mouse or human models (gene expression, not readily available blood tests etc.) are the pathway to nowhere. With the same success, I could attribute every POIS symptom to the loss of zinc in sperm. Pseudoscience seeks to prove a hypothesis correct whereas science seeks to prove it wrong. Moreover, I highly dislike the approach where they try to explain all POIS cases. This theory could be easily declined by simply providing cases where people experience POIS-symptoms just from arousal, and all that spermidine stuff goes into nowhere. This theory can't explain how so many people experience symptomatic relief from such substances as SSRIs, benzos, etc., neither how people were cured by specific dietary protocols. That said, I do not disregard the theory, but this study is completely inappropriate and can't be taken seriously. From my perspective, it is a bro-science anecdote."
I agree with the methodological criticisms, though I still welcome new ideas which can bring about further reflection.
Wow, great read! Thank you mystery writer. It's rather rare to read a comment online and think loudly to myself "HAHA YES, THAT'S SO TRUE HAHA".
Anyway, i for the past few months have been testing the theory that the body fault causing pois is inside the stomach...specifically related to acid regulation. /my2cent