POISCENTER

POIS Life Style => Lifestyle Diary and POIS Summaries => Topic started by: Progecitor on April 19, 2021, 02:27:16 PM

Title: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on April 19, 2021, 02:27:16 PM

For reference I began to masturbate at the age of 11 (1996) and the first symptom I can remember was IBS (in 1996 or 1997). I think I might have overdone masturbation around the age of 12-13 and it could have lead to POIS, although not certain. I realized that many of my symptoms were related to sexual activity (~2000), POIS exacerbated at the age of 17 (2003) and I developed a serious mental problem due to a distinct symptom (not for disclosure). I discovered the name of the disease in 2018. Found the first acceptable treatment (MACA) in 2020. Even though both SSRIs, SNRIs and tryptophan work about the same way I still have a special problem with them.
I have never taken illegal drugs. I have never smoked. I have never had a relationship or sexual contact with anyone whatsoever. I hardly ever drink any alcohol. I think I am a bit addicted to porn. I am definitely hetero. I masturbate around once in 1-2 weeks time.

Symptoms
In the beginning I often had a feverish feeling and was prone to IBS-D. This might had been because I hadn't eaten enough as my POIS seems to be accompanied with a serious energy expenditure. I was probably more prone to dysbacteriosis then, but it can't be proven in my case anymore. As to my current symptoms:
- The burning sensation of excretion I said before. After O I tend to have IBS-C (not by definition).
- Hypothermia or at least a perception of it after the heat of O passes. It is also noticeable at acute-chronic phase turnover after which I don't really feel cold anymore. In the winter I often can't keep my hands warm. Even wearing two gloves can't get it warm, although winters here are quite mild usually.
- Some kind of mild rhinitis is present all the time. The phlegm often contains some blood. My nose is often dry. A burning sensation can often be felt in the nose. Interestingly taking tryptophan or medicinal mushrooms (probably apigenin) makes this go away, but I also tend to sneeze more often, because of them.
- I hardly ever cough, but after talking more then one hour I usually develop a sore throat. I can have some coughing sprees too when I do a lot of physical work.
- Ocular photophobia: It occurs in the mornings. I can't keep my eyes open in the light as I feel as it is burning my eyes out. If I try to force them open I often sneeze. I don't have a skin light sensitivity.
- Bloodshot eyes/Red eyes symptom: I often have a blurry vision linked to brain fog. I am also short sighted with about -3.0 and -4.0 diopter. My sight began to deteriorate around the time I had began masturbating, so there might be a link, but not necessarily. At acute onset I can have quite red bloodshot eyes. It doesn't mean I have full-blown red eyes, but veins seem to leak. It might be due to vasodialation and/or irritation. This symptom can change really fast. It looks like my eye is constantly regenerating, but it can't always keep up with deterioration. In chronic phase my eyes can be really white, but as a low grade POIS is present it can return to some degree intermittently.
- Skin problems: I only have mild skin symptoms. Some slight red dots appear on the chest after O. In the first few days after bathing and drying myself with a towel I can get a very itchy skin for a short time or until dressed. I often have some acne after O even if I have a shower, but it might be normal for the skin to become more oily after O. Very rarely I can develop a really painful red rash besides the anus when I sweat and work a really lot, but with cleaning and rest it disappears by next day. Dandruff is also definitely correlated with acute POIS, but I can manage it quite well with Nizoral.
- Increased hunger right after O: I just have to eat anything even when my stomach is full. I also have a similar experience by eating apple in the chronic phase. I also can't get rid of biting my nails unconsciously because of this and I might be more susceptible to pathogens, although it also seems that they can't really live within me.
- Cognitive problems: I have typical mind fog which is usually strongest in the morning, but can still be present in the evening. Blurry vision and decreased cognition are tightly linked. The more acute POIS is the less I can focus. I can have a psychogenic nausea from any mental activity during a very acute phase. I can usually tolerate passive activity (like watching TV) better then active activity (like reading or playing video games) even if it is fun. I have short term memory problems like forgetting things I have been just told or having a complete block down when speaking about something and I often can't recall words I want to say. I don't seem to have a problem with long term memory otherwise I wouldn't be able to write in English. Actually if I am reminded (like next day) I can even recall a short term memory, so it seems that it is all about the inability to recall short or long term memories. In chronic phase I can recall a lot more things and I can speak much more fluently. I also seem to be much more creative then. I don't know much about this stuff, but there is a distinction of episodic memory related to detail. I often noticed that when I read a book in chronic phase I remembered the details quite vividly, but after an O it is like I had an amnesia in episodic memory. I can still roughly remember what happened, but I simply can't remember the details and they don't really come back even in the next chronic phase unless I learned them. Needless to say how terrible a storyteller I am. When brain fog is heavy in the morning (usually until late afternoon) my train of thoughts often stops completely. I just gaze stupidly at the world and can only have the most primal of thoughts. I actually see that others see that I am stupid, but I just can't do anything about it and it is frustrating. I also found that mental activity can have a lower, but similar effect as tryptophan, and it is no wonder as it actually increases with both mental and physical activity.
- Muscle fatigue: General low-grade muscle fatigue. I can usually overcome it with willpower, but it still hurts while working. The lower leg doesn't really hurt that's why I can stand alright. The thigh hurts more especially when going upstairs. I also feel a weaker pain in my arm, but it is only a problem when I want to lift a heavier weight as even when I develop muscles I simply can't lift things due to increasing pain. It is so good to sit down after work that I don't even want to stand up for at least an hour. I found that applying menthol balsam can really regenerate it by next day, but with physical activity it soon comes back. Physical activity seems to have a dual effect as in some regard it makes my symptoms stronger, but it can also clear up my mind. With a short physical activity red eye problems can get better, but after a while it can even get worse due to exertion.
- Nodules (enlarged lymph nodes) in the breast: I don't even know when I developed this, but I had them for years and they are present almost all the time. After acute POIS onset larger nodules can be felt in the breast tissue. They are mildly painful to the touch. They get smaller as POIS vanes, but can still be present in chronic phase. They are certainly not malignant, but there is a definite link to the chest pain symptom. The breasts are completely normal in appearance otherwise.
- Periodic chest pain: I only have this symptom from my early 20th of age. I think it has a connection with breast nodules as pain usually develops beneath them. This most often occurs right after O and when I manage my POIS badly like eating undesirable food. It is usually present for a few days.
The pain can be very severe. I can lie in the bed without feeling any pain, but for the slightest of movement it feels like being stabbed for a short moment. I think it might be partly because of some physical tension, but it might be some immunological thing too. It can appear on either sides or at both sometimes and it can also go from one side (it can disappear) to the other. At a moderate episode I was at the pediatric clinic and ECG proved negative and radiography also proved negative so it is not apparently a pulmonitis or at least it is not an apparent pulmonitis. Blood test was rather normal and only creatine phosphokinase (CPK) was high with CPK: 1032 IU/L (24-190). CPK was good in other blood tests where it was measured. It might be an allergic case of extrapleural interstitial liquid without pulmonitis, but I might be wrong.
Somewhat contrary to this when riding a bike (weak exertion) and breathing a lot of fresh air symptoms can get better. I also noticed that charcoal can help somewhat while coffee (black list foods too, but coffee did this many times so I am sure of it) can reintensify pain. Actually it is rather lucky that I have never told anyone at my work place about my chest pain as I have it quite frequently. I can usually conceal it quite well and even in those cases I couldn't I always said it was only a heart burn, because of a weak heart, so they don't suspect me of harboring tuberculosis or something. If I had really told about it to others I might have been in trouble due to the pandemic as I would have been suspected frequently even though I had this symptom for a decade now. It is not even like I was lying as even my relatives and my doctors had never believed it. Even at the one time my blood test showed something the doctor said it would go away. I knew that even without being told, but the problem is that it always returns too.
- Periodic kidney pain: at a time it occurred once or twice a year and lasted about two days. Usually the site of the kidney was in pain. I haven't had a medical check-up for this so I don't know more. I am sure this developed due to sit-ups, which can increase my disease the most. I think I even had a pancreatitis once for a few days due to this. When I have a muscle fever I feel really bad for days. At the time I thought it was due to some kind of lactic acidosis, but I am really not sure at this point. I haven't had this symptom since I stopped doing sit-ups and it was years ago.
- Urinary problems: I don't have a problem with holding the urine, but I have a serious problem with the urge of urination. I don't really have to go peeing very frequently, but the urge comes in a few hours. If I don't urinate my symptoms are enhanced. If I urinate the volume is usually small, so it is not like my bladder can't hold any more, but the capsaicin-like, burning compound probably begins to irritate the nerves in the bladder. The kidneys probably also reach a threshold where they can force this compound into the urine and so its level begins to elevate in my whole body aggravating symptoms. It is often a bit hard to let go as at the end of the penis it actually creates a slight pain which wants to stop my body from letting go. I could sleep through a night when I was younger, but since a few years ago (when I was 28-29) I almost always wake up at night sometimes very precisely in 6 hours from going to sleep. Although when I am in the chronic phase I can often sleep through the night without waking up.
- Slight tachycardia: My blood pressure seems to be normal usually, but it seems I can have some problems with my pulse. There are times when I suddenly wake up at night even when I didn't have any bad dreams. My tinnitus can be especially loud. When measuring it the blood pressure seems to be good, but pulse can be 90-100. After I go and urinate (decrease the capsaicin-like compound) and drink a bit of water I can go to bed again and slowly I feel relaxed again.
- Conjunctivitis: I am not sure the medical terms I use are correct, but I often have dry eyes which is of course in some relation to bloodshot eyes (maybe uveitis). This symptom can occur anytime and especially when I am in front of the monitor. It also tends to increase at late night when I am getting tired. If I still force them I tend to have more pronounced bloodshot eyes.
- Sleeping problems: Often I can only get myself to sleep when I am on my belly. At the first time I heard about COVID-19 patients being better lying on their belly-side I immediately associated to my disease and always thought that there must be an association between the two and now it seems especially likely. I usually get quite tired right after O, but not to a degree that I can't stay awake, just that my body really desires it. I can have a disturbed sleep on the first sleep after an O, but on the following days I can usually rest quite well unless I wake up because of the urge to urinate or the loud tinnitus. What I also noticed that in acute POIS I don't really have any dreams. I am not exactly sure if I don't have them or just can't remember them. As chronic POIS follows I begin to have more dreams or at least I can remember them. The problem with vivid dreams is however that they can often be erotic and my unconscious ego tends to realize the consequences too late. :)
I also noticed that I can get a very refreshing sleep without a blanket even if I have a pajama on, but I can only do this in the summer when there is a relatively warm air, especially due to my hypothermia.
- Headache: Of course I can also have headaches, but I can pretty well control the appearance of this symptom, so they don't pose such a threat anymore. At the beginning of my severe POIS development (around the age of 17, but I had symptoms beforehand too) I had some very serious headaches. At one time I clearly remember that I was lying in bed for two days as I had a very bad headache (unresponsive to painkillers) and sometime I opened the window to get some fresh air and then miraculously only an hour later there was hardly any pain. Since then I always try to get as much fresh air as I can and keep a window slightly open even during winter. I haven't really tested many painkillers, but Quarelin (400 mg metamizol sodium, 60 mg caffeine, 40 mg drotaverine hydrochloride) can surely get rid of it and often even a half is enough if the pain is not severe. It is rather strange that it contains caffeine as drinking a coffee can often elevate (there are cases when it lowers it) a head-ache as well as my other symptoms. I suspect that other components play a role in this and caffeine just might be good. Another thing that can cause a headache is if I can't go to the toilet in the morning and have to do a lot of physical work. A headache that develops this way usually doesn't react well to painkillers and often only going to the loo can solve the problem after which the pain can slowly subside. Mainly this is the reason that I still keep drinking coffee in the morning, although it can surely cause bloodshot eyes and enhance chest pain, but can reduce brain-fog and clear me out. Head-ache also has a connection to bloodshot eyes. When bloodshot eyes are very severe I can develop a head-ache in response, but it can also happen the other way around.
Other less frequent symptoms: transient joint pain (There was a time when I actually developed it for a few days or weeks while I was taking glucosamine-sulfate), transient muscle twitches (usually resolves with position change. I think it might be connected to the blood veins, but I was not even aware that this could be a POIS specific symptom and haven't really cared about it.)

The following may not have a relation to POIS:
- Sensory neuropathy: Around 2010 I had about 4 or 5 episodes (with a few month to a year in between) of neuropathic pain which had lasted for about one or two month. It either started from my big toes on both of my legs and day by day slowly crawled up to my waist. Or it started from the fingers on one of my arm and crawled to my chest. It felt like constantly being stabbed by tiny needles on the skin surface which was a hellish pain without seeming of an end. I could move, but I didn't want to stand on any of my soles because of the pain or couldn't easily hold a pen in case of my fingers. There was a time when I was lying in the bed in the morning when it was warm under the blanket, but I felt like freezing. It seems my receptors had ran haywire on my skin. The first time was the worst though as I thought that it would never go away. At the first episode I went to see the doctor after a week where the GP prescribed meloxicam, which did nothing to the pain. I also went to Rheumatology where they told me I have no muscle, but they didn't give me the correct diagnosis (it was dorsalgia and muscle pain). As the pain somehow disappeared on its own after quite a few weeks I didn't even seek medical knowledge in the following episodes. I was quite disappointed in doctors by this time. I have only found out that I had actually had sensory neuropathic pain a few years ago while I was searching for POIS. I really have to question how competent they were at Rheumatology or if they just didn't want to bother with me. Fortunately this kind of pain hasn't returned for years, but even if it had now I at least know its name.
I had some O during these episodes and it had never changed the normal POIS episode. Still I think the actual initiation of the episodes were linked to times when I did sit-ups more often, and since I realized this I have never done sit-ups anymore. It really might have been the nerves in my backbone in this case, but who knows for sure.
- Enlarged lymph nodes on the backside of the neck somewhat under the ears. I developed this a few years ago. Once or a few times in a year either of them can get inflamed for a few days, but then the pain disappears. It doesn't react to acute phase, but it seems somewhat similar to the chest pain.
- Epigastrial discomfort: It also only developed a few years ago. It might have been the result of eating too much all the time. I often felt my stomach was full even when I was hungry. A mild pain was present almost all the time. I didn't have a medical check-up for this but I also never had reflux.
- Ass muscle pain/inflammation: It also developed only a few years ago. The origin of the pain is deep in the muscle somewhere close to the rectum, but it doesn't seem I can feel any nodules there. It resembles very much to the chest pain. It usually lasts a few days. The pain can be present on only one side, but can also move to the other. It has the same stabbing kind of pain with movement. Only a kind of inflammation can be felt when I am not in motion. As pain becomes very severe I practically become lame and can hardly move. Now the most perplexing thing in this regard is that this symptom most often occurs at the beginning of the chronic phase and the only really thing that can actually stop its build-up is having a release by O. If I don't release just masturbate it can enhance the pain. Even O doesn't make it regress right away, but it seems to be a turning point in its course. Two years ago I very often had this pain and interestingly chest pain occurred less often although I masturbated with about the same frequency.
- Left ear tinnitus: Developed it around 2010. Maybe it was due to an infection. I can hear the pulse constantly which can be a pain when I am reading a book in the silent room. Sometimes it gets louder, but measuring my blood pressure and pulse often proves normal. Sometimes I had acute POIS related sleep disorder when I suddenly woke up in the middle of the night with a very loud tinnitus. When I measured the blood pressure it was often completely normal, but pulse was often around 100 what I wouldn't have expected while sleeping.

Other considerations:
- Chronic sleep deprivation generally makes me feel more ill.
- After acute sleep deprivation (about 22 hours) I develop a kind of superPOIS state. I begin feeling very unwell. I get a constant tingling sensation in my belly. My anus is constantly itching. At a time I also felt like freezing, although it was a warm summer day. It was hard to stop the shaking under the blanket, but a good sleep solved the problem every time. I only had this state a few times and not in the last ten years, because I am not stupid to stay awake to wait for it anymore. I should recheck this state, but I can't really get myself to do it.

Things that enhance my POIS:
1. ejaculation: Make no mistake I have a chronic phase and O just enhances it in my (s)experience.
2. sleep deprivation: either chronic or acute
3. diet: It doesn’t really matter what I eat I still have POIS, but some food can seriously enhance it.
4. physical and mental exertion: usually dual effect: some symptoms strengthen while others weaken.
5. medicine and supplementation: Can go both ways. Many things are under trial.

Psychological effects that can enhance my POIS (probably due to parasympathetic enhancement):
- Having a cathartic experience while watching a good movie.
- Crying (sometimes because of my sorrow)
- Reading a lot has a dual effect (probably tryptophan)
What actually weakens my POIS is psychological stress, but only for a short time and it also doesn't make it disappear.

I usually have brain fog and ocular photophobia in the morning and by evening my mind tends to clear up somewhat. I also tend to have a burning urine in the evenings.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on April 19, 2021, 03:33:20 PM

Diet
Some foods evidently enhance POIS, but this is not an actual food allergy. They also act the same in the chronic phase, but in the acute phase the impact is more severe. There are foods that act quickly (like in an hour), but others act only by next day or as long as it is in my body. Unfortunately I couldn't get myself into a rigorous selective diet and also haven't documented all separate symptom enhancement in detail, but they all generally make me feel more ill. Medical tests didn't prove lactose or gluten intolerance.

Black list:
- paprika/ sweet pepper: Sweet pepper contains non-pungent capsiate and could be a reason for TRPV1 activation. Of course hot pepper with capsaicin is twice as worse. Also any food made from sweet pepper even if cooked or fried has a negative effect, except if it is pickled.
- tomato: First it makes me better. Minutes after consuming it the blurry vision clears up and I can think more straight. As it moves along digestion it makes me a bit worse, but nowhere near as paprika.
- apricot: the fruit and jam also, the bloodshot eyes are especially bad which is usually accompanied by morning ocular photophobia.
- sour cherry: Bloodshot eyes. It also contains melatonin, but not sure of its involvement.
- peach: usually needs a greater amount for an effect.
- strawberry: seems to have a very mild, but negative effect
- poppy seed: acts quickly and long, same burning effect. Needless to say that eating poppy seed cake with cherry as one would usually do makes me very ill. Cetirizine may only have a mild effect on POIS, but it may greatly reduce the effect of some foods. I haven't tested this idea extensively, but I ate poppy seed a few times without any problems while taking MACA and Cetirizine.
- walnut: generally feel bad, interestingly has a slighter effect when eating continuously, but not eating it for a time, then starting again has the same severe effect. Certainly increases the burning pain just like poppy seed does.
- sour cabbage/sauerkraut: It induces POIS quite severely, but interestingly normal cooked cabbage doesn't really have an effect, although it seems I can lose weight overnight by gorging myself with (meat and rice) stuffed cabbage, which is funny. It is hard to believe that other POISers have such a good experience with it. Well we usually eat the home-made kind and the starting culture could be different.
- whole bread / graham bread: Enhances POIS symptoms. Especially if eaten with foods like paprika/sweet pepper. Stool is sticky and burning which I think is a sign of dysbacteriosis and dysfermentation. I also can't eat normal bread as I get constipated and my gut aches. I found that I can at least eat rye bread and German wheat/spelt in moderation without problems. German wheat has a high tryptophan content which might have something to do with it. I also don't have any problem with soft buns or croissant, so I don't think it is a gluten matter at all.
- red wine: Really the only thing I can drink, but this also makes me the worst. Consuming a greater amount (I don't remember, but maybe half a bottle or a whole bottle) can cause a burning diarrhea.
Its strange that it contains serotonin and I still feel bad.
- coffee: Clearly enhances the disease, especially the bloodshot eyes and the chest pain when it occurs at the time. Without sugar or with milk (even if sugar is added) has a slighter effect. It seems a controversy, but I still drink it as it helps bowel clearance. I noticed if I can't go to the toilet in the morning and do physical activity at work I often develop a serious headache supposedly because high toxin concentration in the bowel. There were several cases when I really regretted that I had drank coffee during work even though my gut was normal at the time. At home I only drink it with a lot of milk while also eating something, but at work it is usually not available. So several times I drank it in itself and it often induced an unavoidable diarrhea. Interestingly often there wasn't any stool, but only some clear, white mucus with a lot of flatulence. First I wasn't even sure what it was so once I took a sample to parasitology, but they only said that it was negative. I have to guess it is really mucus either due to erosion or a clear apoptopic event. When I drank pure coffee without added sugar it happened less often, so I have to guess that bacteria are also involved (maybe SIBO).
- soy beans
- egg-plant: I am defenitely ill of it (gut ache), but I also don't think it is a POIS related thing. As many of us have problems with nightshades it is probably a bad thing indeed.
- hemp seeds: I ate them a few times and they possibly increased the burning pain, but symptoms were not awful, so it only has a weak effect.
- chicory coffee: It doesn't contain caffeine, however it still produces a similar effect as coffee. Eyes are noticeably more bloodshot and the burning pain is increased.
- instant coffees: These are usually even worse than coffee even when I drink them with milk, so I try to avoid them as much as possible.
- dried mango fruit: I ate quite a few at one time and the burning pain was considerably worse the following day.
- red cabbage (Blaukraut): burning stool and a very uncomfortable cramping chest pain a few hours after consumption
- tortilla: bloodshot eyes and burning pain. Probably the cabbage.
- bean with chili: I think it is mostly the chili as bean soup can make me better.
- apple + carrot + beetroot (raw and minced together): My mother thought it was a good idea to make me some vitamin bomb while I was ill with covid-19. Well this really made me even more ill. Actually I was half expecting this as I had somewhat recalled a similar experience from the past. Mainly caused an increase in gut issues.
- spaghetti with oregano: tomato sauce and oregano can separately induce POIS symptoms, but together they are even worse. Tomato sauce doesn’t have the temporary benefit I experience when eating raw tomato, but only the negative effects.
- kiwifruit: causes gut issues (increased burning pain), but other symptoms don’t really change, so it is simply bad, but not terribly.
- peas: I had problems on several occasion when I ate cooked peas. It can cause painful gut issues. French salad can make me really ill and peas certainly have a role in it.
- quality sweet red sparkling wine: I only drank about half deciliter as a formality, but it made me really ill the next day. It increased the burning pain considerably and induced a moderate chest inflammation.
- caramel: The home made version can induce severe diarrhea when consumed with milk. Interestingly though caramel candies themselves don’t seem to be that bad.
- gummy candies: only some of the products
- chicken soup: sometime no problems at other times evidently induces POIS. I mostly suspect the added pepper that is cooked into the soup making it alike to a chicken flavored pepper tea.
- cappuccino: developed a chest inflammation after drinking two cups from a vending machine.
- spring shallots: Once again I attempted to eat spring shallots as an affordable and “healthy” vegetable and right away I developed an infection. It must be something POIS specific otherwise many people would be ill from it. The remaining aftertaste clearly bothered my throat and then it became painful and then it developed into a throat/tonsil infection that lasted several days. It is true that POIS itself makes me a little prone to infection, but even when I was untreated it was only a little more frequent than I would assume to be average and since I have been treating myself it is more like average or less so. However the aftertaste of onion and POIS combined makes me extremely susceptible to infections, so once again I will avoid eating this. It has to be noted that this is only true when I eat it as raw, as eating cooked onion does not leave an aftertaste and I have no problems with it. Similarly I had no such problems even when eating raw garlic, this seems to be very specific to onion.
- “Bird milk”: Practically milk with eggs and sugar/vanilla sugar. It certainly makes me feel worse, photophobia and cognition are noticeably worsened.
- peanut butter: It can induce bloodshot eyes. In the following mornings I am usually very photophobic and more depressed than usual. I suspect this is due to the bad fats in it.
- fried bacon: A few hours after consumption it can induce some cramping pain in the veins. In the following morning I may be more photophobic and depressed. Probably the bad fats again.
- sausages: I think this also makes me worse, which may be due to the pepper, but the additives and preservatives can be involved as well.
- date palm paste: It may be a little bad for my POIS, but nothing significant. However it can surely make my teeth hurt a lot for some reason.
- European gooseberry: I ate a broth of it and I suspect it increased some symptoms like gut issues.
- milk: It can induce a food coma, especially if I drink it around noon or in the early afternoon. It may also induce the burning pain, though it is hard to say. At least lactase ensyme (5000 FCCU) has a minimal positive effect. Also when I had a negative lactulose test it clearly induced the burning pain quite a lot. This suggests the involvement of lactic acid in the burning pain symptom.


In my experience if it gives a burning feeling or a red eye symptom or a morning ocular photophobia or enhanced blurriness than it is surely a POIS enhancing food.
Morning ocular photophobia can occur with normal acute POIS, but can be especially bad after some food. Photophobia has a slight relationship with bloodshot eyes and a certain one with light induced sneezing. The more serious cases can be accompanied with serious eye pain. This can also have a head-ache inducing effect.
An approximate intensity enhancing order would be apricot=sour cabbage > cherry = banana > apple > peach > strawberry

Based on FODMAP the polyol group may have to be considered, although I have good items on the red list and bad ones on the green list also.

Maybe list:
- pears seem to have a cleaning effect even if it creates a severe flatulence, but it can also make things worse if taken with another enhancing food. At once I had a very severe illness (POIS episode) when I ate pear, banana and grape together.
- tangerine: it seems to cause severe flatulence, but doesn't really have an effect on POIS, although it makes me a bit less foggy, but I rather avoid it. (In retrospect it could be good).
- watermelon: Can be both good and bad. If consumed in consideration it has a good effect, but too much can cause severe sometimes burning diarrhea. As of late I tried to eat the inner hard side of the shell as it supposedly contains citrullin. I found that it might be a little good, but needs further testing.
- grape: I am not sure. It sometimes make me feel much worse, while sometimes nothing happens. I still need to test this more. I seem to have a problem with raisin too, but mainly flatulence. (probably help - needs rechecking)
- egg barley (pastry): I have a suspicion that it can induce inflammation, but not confirmed. Also other pastry don't have any effect.
- tea: teas are very controversial. I haven't had the time to sort it all out. Some good quality black tea without anything added can surely help sore throat. I also consume medicinal teas, but usually mixed. Some tea can make me better, while others rather worse, but it is also not always evident. So far I think that lemon-balm actually helps.
- cheese: I am not sure as I only consume small amounts, but it doesn't seem to have an effect. One thing I found is that it can make me prone (not always, but seemingly more often) to nocturnal emission, which is quite bad itself. Maybe no wonder it is called an aphrodisiac.
- cauliflower: gives me a severe flatulence, but I don't think it actually does anything to POIS. (probably helps - needs rechecking)
- mushrooms: I am often ill of it (gut ache), but not always. I also don't think it is POIS related.
- chestnut: gut ache, not POIS I think
- household biscuit: gut-ache, not POIS related
- plum: It probably has a weak mixed effect. If I eat it raw I have a lot of flatulence which is often a good thing in regard of POIS, however it probably also induces the burning pain somehat like many other fruits, especially if it is not ripe enough. I don't usually eat it raw, but we make a lot of home-made plum jam and although this has no major effect on POIS at least it helps with gut motility, so rather safe to consume.
- banana: It often causes some bloodshot eyes by next morning. Even so it seems to help with gut issues somewhat.
- beetroot: It does not seem to increase bloodshot eyes, however I often had a burning darker stool when eating beetroot. At least I also experienced good spontaneous erections on consecutive days, so it really does have an aphrodisiac effect as well. I guess I need to regard it as something that has a mixed effect.
- raw natural buckwheat: I ate cooked buckwheat 2 times. I don’t think it made any particular change. I am still not sure about the one I had tried earlier, but it was the pre-roasted form, which may have been the cause of the negative experience.
- green pea: For some strange reason I often have a diarrhea after eating cooked green peas. I had similar experiences with eating French salad which also contains it. This makes me think that I have an intolerance to it. However this doesn’t seem to make POIS particularly stronger. At the same time I have to note that classic POIS mimetics like the nightshades (e.g. paprika, tomato) or poppy seeds don’t induce diarrhea, which would suggest that their effect is not due to intolerance, but rather some other way they impact the inflammatory pathway.
- melon: Similarly to green peas I often have a diarrhea when eating melon, but not every time, which makes me think that I have a fructose intolerance above a certain threshold. Even so it does not seem to particularly increase POIS symptoms, which may suggest that fructose is not a direct POIS mimetic even if I have an intolerance to it.
- grapes: If eating a cluster a grapes I usually have no problems, however if I eat 3-4 cluster of grapes it would very likely result in diarrhea, so I may have some intolerance to it. Once again this may be due to fructose. At least I had no such problem with resveratrol, grape seeds or even with a sizable number of raisins, which is strange as it may also contain a good amount of fructose.
- yogurt can have a dual effect.  I often mix fruity and natur yoghurt and sugar could be a culprit.
- apple: It can make me very hungry, which often leads to eating more sweets as well, which can be bad. Apple makes the stool looser, but the burning is not changed much.

White list:
- spirits: I don't have much experience as I don't like them, but small amounts don't have an effect.
- sugar: At acute disease onset my energy craving is so enormous that I often eat a lot of sweet stuff. It might not be good for my health, but it is also a wonder I haven't developed diabetes yet.
- sunflower seed (raw) and its derivatives like oil and margarine doesn't do anything to POIS.
- potatoes
- rice: in itself not, although consuming it with cinnamon or paprika might have a slight enhancing effect. Maybe pectin is involved.
- corn
- cucumber: neither raw nor if pickled has an effect. If it is sour I feel worse, but I don't think it is a POIS effect.
- bean and lentils: although flatulence is not a good feeling at acute POIS onset, but they also contain tryptophan and they can seemingly shorten the acute state.
- ginger: First I was suspicious because of its burning taste, but I thought it helped a bit. Its positive effect became very clear when consumed it after (MACA+Cetirizine) as it gave a clear benefit.
- vegetable (root)
- radish
- lettuce
- rumex
- spinach
- pumpkin
- onion: raw and cooked, but I have a suspicion that raw onion can make me susceptible to tonsillitis. I had it every year for at least thrice with a duration of 1-3 weeks sometimes only 1 clear week between and I think I often ate raw onion before it happened. I wanted to verify this by stopping to eat it. Actually I haven't had it for more than a year now, but as coronavirus struck we also wear mask almost every time so it could be only that as well.
Actually I feel better from raw onion, but I somehow forgot about it as I have a somewhat paranoid fear of tonsilitis. Maybe I should pickle some red onions and see how it works.
- garlic: I didn't notice any effect, although I haven't really tested it extensively. Although I have a suspicion that garlic scent is more prolonged for me than others for the same amount consumed.
At a time someone brought us pickled garlic and it didn't cause this all permeating odor. Recently my mother got this bottle called apple cider vinegar fermented on garlic bed. Sometimes I add a little to my usual tea and it seems like it gives a real extra kick to it. Most probably because it is loaded with quercetin from both apple and garlic.
- eggs: I didn't notice any effect, although I don't eat it frequently.
- broccoli: it can make me feel better
- coconut: no effect
- raspberry: I don't think I have a problem with it or not perceptible.
- blueberry: I think I feel better because of it.
- honey-dew melon
- nut, hazel-nut
- lemon: It certainly helps reduce brain fog.
- orange: It helps with POIS.
- zucchini: I ate it a few times during last summer and I think it actually helped with POIS as I was always feeling a bit better on the following days.
- black radish: definitely helps a little and it is also cheap. My favorite vegetable for the winter season.
- hazelnut and chocolate cream (2nd grade): It doesn’t seem to effect POIS even if I eat a greater amount, however it can put a burden on the cardiovascular system (e.g. heart pain).
- potato salad is safe to consume
- carrot: I don’t think I have much problems with carrots. Eating a few cooked carrots doesn’t do anything really. However recently I also ate a carrot sauce and then developed a weaker lymphatic inflammation, so it may still cause some problems.
- beetroot: Sometimes I eat cooked or fried beetroot, but I don’t think I have a particular reaction to it. Recently I ate a whole raw beetroot and later I developed a loud tinnitus with the zipp-zipp sound. I was also testing Relora and drank a lot of coffee at the time, however on other days nothing similar happened with them, so it may have been caused by beetroot. I don’t think it caused any other issues though.
- high quality cocoa: weak mixed effects: sometimes it may cause some bloodshot eyes, however it seems to help with gut issues (reduce burning pain), although it may also cause some cramping stomach pain from time to time.
- maple syrup
- quality honey
- millet
- tapioca pudding
- sweet potato: I don’t remember if I had ever eaten it previously in my life, so it was time to try it. At the first time I ate two serving in one day and I was kind of surprised that it was not only safe, but actually helped rather well with the gut inflammation problem. I also ate it on other two separate occasions and while the benefit was still there it wasn’t so distinct as that first time.
- green coffee – I bought some green coffee grind and on one occasion I made a big serving of coffee.  This time it did not give me any significant reaction, though not even regular coffee gives me a bad reaction always. Well for now it appears safe, but I also see no clear benefit either over regular coffee and it also tastes rather plain.
- (Green) mung bean: I cooked about 250 g beans by only adding salt and ate it in three portions along the day. Unfortunately my eye symptoms remained bad from the previous test. A few hours after each meal it seemed to have a very slight positive effect on the eyes, but otherwise it could not achieve any significant change. I can't say too much good about gut issues either. At least the burning pain was noticeably reduced, but the stool was also quite loose. It felt more like eating regular beans or lentils that help a little, but also cause a lot of flatulence. So it only has a weak effect. Interestingly mung beans are also a source of coumestrol.
- adzuki bean: I ate two servings and based on the initial reaction I think it helps minimally, just like mung bean, however later I also ate some soybean enriched meat and that really messed me up, so this is only an estimation.
- agave syrup: Another alternative sweetener with high fructose and a lower glycemic index, however higher caloric than sugar. The first time I took a bigger amount and eye symptoms actually appeared very slightly better. Well it clearly doesn't help much though, but at least appears to be safe.
- Panela sugar: I ate it regularly and consumed a whole bag. It was not particularly beneficial or harmful either
- dried jackfruit: I ate a small bag of it, but it was not particularly useful.
- dried papaya: I ate a small bag and it is probably a little bit useful.
- dried guava: I ate a small bag and it is probably a little healthy.
- dried amalaki with cardamom: I think this was the best of the four, though nothing extraordinary of course.
- kefir: I try to eat it regularly and I also often mix in some medicinal spices, especially the dry ones, and some honey. It seems to improve gut health this way.
- meat: I can eat most meat types without issues. I try to eat them more frequently nowadays. One thing I like is liver cream that I often put on sandwiches, as it may be a good source of choline and collagen, though the satutrated fats could be bad, so I usually buy the quality ones that have a smaller weight for the same price.

Also of note that eating only from the white list won't make POIS disappear as I also had POIS with a clear bowel.
Another consideration that should be taken is that some foods may contain compounds with both good and bad effect.
This list is a good approximation, but I wouldn't say that everything is 100 % tested out. Recently I have gained so much new knowledge on POIS that I think I should retest everything and do a serious revaluation retrospectively and document everything before I forget it. This might also take years especially if I have to stop now working medicine in order to have a clear "foggy" view.
It is very important to note that I view POIS based on my personal theory and I see it subjectively.

It is rather strange that fermentation could take away the POIS enhancing capability of both apple and sweet pepper (paprika), but it can add it to cabbage. This may worth further investigation.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on April 20, 2021, 01:36:03 AM

Complete medical background

Laboratory blood tests
The marked ones are highlighted. During the years the reference values also changed making unmarked values marked or the opposite way. Tests were mostly in the acute phase, although not all, still I have symptoms even in the chronic phase.
1990. 02. (Hydrocele sclerotisation): blood markers: HCT: 0.35, Hgb: 7.0 mmol/l, RBC: 3.9 T/l, WBC: 5.8 G/l, Thromb. 220 G/l, weight: 20 kg, blood pressure: 110/70 Hgmm, ESR: 10 mm/h, blood glucose: 6.0 mmol/l, Blood type "0" Rh neg., ECG: SR, centrum Alignment, Regular Curved, Serum-Na: 138 mmol/l, Se-K: 4.2 mmol/l, Se-CN: 3.8 mmol/l, Se-creat.: 55 umol/l, Se-bilir.: 12 umol/l, bleeding time: 2'14", clotting time: 5'22", urine pH: acidic, protein: neg., glucose: neg., acetone: neg., ubg: normal, sediment: 3-4,
2001. 07. Hgb: 147, WBC: 6.79, HCT: 0.44 (0.45-0.51), glucose: 5.3, Na: 139, Cl: 104, K: 5.0, KN: 4.4, ALT: 13 U/l (<60), AST: 17 U/l (<50), otherwise normal.
2004. 03. (Psychiatry 1.) RR: 120/80 P: 72, neutrophil: 0.48, monocyte: 0.11, eosinophil: 0.05, total bilirubin.: 17.4, otherwise normal.
2004. 09. (Hernitomia sec. Bassini ingu. l.d.): ALT: 17 U/l, AST: 23 U/l, total bilirubin: 27.1 umol/l (<17), WBC: 13.8 G/l, NEU: 11.80 g/l, NEU%: 0.86, LYM: 0.96 g/l, LYM%: 0.07, MONO: 0.98 g/l, MONO%: 0.07, EOS: 0.00 g/l, EOS%: 0.00, BASO: 0.05 g/l, BASO%: 0.00
2005. 07. (Psychiatry 2.) monocyte: 0.11, cholesterol: 5.5, triglyceride: 1.89, otherwise normal
2007. 12. (at a time of the regular chest inflammation, radiography and ECG were negative the same day): calcium: 2.35 mmol/l (2.1-2.6) ALT: 22 U/l, AST: 43 U/l, total bilirubin: 27.6 umol/l (<17), CPK: 1032 U/l (24-190), cholesterol: 5.1 mmol/l (3.9-5.2), LDL: 3.44 mmol/l (<3.36), HDL: 1.35 mmol/l (1.45-5.20), ESR: 6 mm/h (<20), reticulocytes: 0.008 (0.008-0.020). WBC: 6.65 G/l (4.0-10.0), neutrophil: 0.53 (0.50-0.70), lymphocyte: 0.37 (0.20-0.40), monocyte: 0.09 (0.03-0.10), eosinophil: 0.02 (0.01-0.04), basophil: 0.00 (<0.01), abs. neutrophil: 3.53 G/l, abs. lymphocyte: 2.44 G/l, abs. monocyte: 0.57 G/l, abs. eosinophil: 0.10 G/l, abs. basophil: 0.01 G/l, urine: specific gravity: 1025 (1001-1040), pH: 6.0 (4.5-7.8 ).
2010. 10. (during a case of sensory neuropathy): ALT: 8 U/l, AST: 12 U/l, total bilirubin: NA, CPK: 96 U/l, reticulocytes: 0.005 (0.008-0.020), neutrophil%: 56 (50-70), lymphocyte%: 35 (20-40), EOS%: 1 (1-4), CRP: 7.1 mg/l (<5.0), urine: NA, stool blood: negative
2012. 05. (a paid checkup during an acute phase): CRP: 2.4 mg/L (0.0-10.0), anti streptolysin: 53 IU/ml (0-200), WBC: 6.08 G/L (4.0-9.0), neutrophil%: 46 (50-70), lymphocyte%: 43.1 (25.0-40.0), monocyte%: 7.5 (0.0-8.0), eosinophil%: 3.0 (0.0-5.0), basophil%: 0.4 (0.0-1.0), abs. neutrophil: 2.80 G/L (1.80-6.30), abs. lymphocyte: 2.62 G/L (1.00-4.10), abs. monocyte: 0.46 G/L (0.00-0.70), abs. eosinophil: 0.18 G/L (0.00-0.40), abs. basophil: 0.02 G/L (0.00-0.10), urine: specific gravity: 1030g/l (1003-1029), pH: 6.0
2016. 02. (acute phase – around the time I developed two small lesions on the neck which are still present): ALT: 13 U/l, AST: 19 U/l, total bilirubin: 20.6 umol/l, WBC: 6.45 G/l, NEU: 43.0% (40.0-74.0), lymphocyte%: 44.6 (19-39), MONO%: 9.9 (3.0-10.0), EOS%: 2.3 (0.1-5.0), BASO%: 0.02 (0.1-2.0), NEU: 2.77 G/l (1.68-8.00), LYM: 2.88 G/l (0.84-4.32), MONO: 0.64 G/l (0.12-1.08), EOS: 0.15 G/l (0.04-0.54), abs. basophil: 0.02 G/l (0.04-0.21), RDW: 10.7 %CV (11.5-14.5), urine: specific gravity: 1020, pH: 5.0.
2018. 06. (acute phase) ALT: 11 U/l, AST: 17 U/l, total bilirubin: 22.7 umol/l (1.7-21.0), WBC: 5.16 G/l, NEU%: 41.9 (40.0-74.0), lymphocyte%: 43.9 (19.0-39.0), MONO%: 9.7 (3.0-10.0), EOS%: 3.9 (0.1-5.0), BASO%: 0.6 (0.1-2.0), NEU: 2.16 G/l, LYM: 2.27 G/l, MONO: 0.50 G/l, EOS: 0.20 G/l, abs. Basophil: 0.03 g/l (0.04-0.21), RDW: 10.9 %CV (11.5-14.5), urine: specific gravity: 1015, pH: 6.0, urine sediment: 12/view (<6)

Commentary:
Although I think I have some kind of sepsis it certainly doesn't show in liver function represented by ALT and AST.
The elevated total bilirubin is supposed to be due to my Gilbert-disease.
RDW is a parameter to describe the morphology of the red blood cell.
As an elevated RDW value is an indicator of chronic inflammation I simply can't comprehend how it could be low.  It is true that a lower RDW value was only present in the last two tests, so I am not sure if it is really in connection with my POIS which I had for more than 20 years.
Abs. Basophil was always around 0.01-0.03 G/l which is a low value and it only became marked as the reference interval increased to 0.04 G/l at the low end. This isn't very interesting in itself, but a high basophil count is in connection with chronic allergic diseases which raises some questions.
The hernia I suffered in 2004 was due to the fact I gained 20 kg in half a year even though I was very skinny before. The most probable culprit was Zyprexa and that is why it was switched to Zeldox. The intestine became blocked and I vomited a lot before the surgery so it is not indicative of POIS.
I had a few cases of two-sided kidney pain, but these symptoms disappear in a few days and it is almost impossible to get an appointment in such a short order. I was really "lucky" that I had a chest pain long enough that I managed to get it "diagnosed".

Physiological anamnesis:
Vaccinations in childhood: 1985: BCG, Di-Per-Te I/a, I/b, I/c, Polio, 1986: Polio, Morbilli 1987: Polio, 1988: Di-Per-Te II., 1990: Rubeola, 1997. 05. 09.: BCG – Mtx 5TU negative, Re BCG: "973", 1997. 09. 09.: Scar: positive. 1999-2000: H-B-VAX II (3 times), 2001: 5TU
1990. 03. – Op: Hydrocele sclerotisatio Testicle seems to be normal to the touch, some liquid can be felt. Inflammatory pattern is not present.
~1991 – chickenpox, also known as varicella
~1993 – mumps
~1996-1999 – correction for teeth
I had a few tick bites in childhood, but they were safely removed and I had never developed a skin pattern.
I had other insect bites as well such as ant, flea, wasp, bee, but there wasn't any allergic reactions to them only the local inflammation.
2004. 03-04. Hospitalization – Psychiatric department – severe POIS onset at the age of 17.
Abdominal and pelvic ultrasonography (USG): normal although the cavities of the left kidney are bigger and contain liquid. Therapy: Zyprexa, Rivotril, Zoloft.
Gastroscopy - negative
CT of brain: negative
2004. 09. Urology: Checkup: everything is normal.
2004. 09. Inguinal hernia  – Chest radiography: negative
2005. 07. Hospitalization at Psychiatric Dep. to set new medication. Therapy: Zeldox 40 mg, Rivotril, Imovane, Dicetel, Zoloft.
2007. 12. regular chest pain – It was one of the first cases and it became regular afterwards (one occasion per 2 weeks – 2 month, but actually very irregular in appearance and intensity): radiography and ECG were negative
2008. 12. Ophthalmology: Shortsightedness that slowly deteriorates. Eyes are normal, eye Ultrasound: negative
2009. 03. Dermatology: control examination with smaller problems.
2010. 07. Ophthalmology: Normal findings.
2010. 10. Abdominal USG: negative
2010. 10. Spinal radioscopy 1: Dorsal kyphosis is standard. Small degree left convex scoliosis is seen. The angle of the lumbar and the sacrum is pronounced. Pronounced right convex scoliosis is seen.
LV rests low, the LS gap is narrower, LV backside arc is slightly open.
2010. 11. Proctology: Mild dermatitis, otherwise normal.
2010. 11. Gastroenterology: consultation – diagnosis: dyspepsia, IBS without diarrhea (Refluxon 30 mg, Dicetel 50 mg)
2011. 02. Thyroid examination - negative – SH: 1.81 uIU/ml (0.35 – 4.94).
2011. 04. Gastroenterology: negative partial colonoscopy.
2011. 04. Irrigoscopy with double contrast: polypus in the right flexure? - Inadequate preparation!
2011. 06. Gastroenterology: Successful endoscopy with negative result.
2011. 06. Parasite test 1 (stool sample): Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2011. 06. Bacteriology test (stool sample) 1: Aside from normal E.coli count Klebsiella sp. was in great number. Pathogenic role is in question.
2011. 07. Bacteriology test 2: Normal E.coli were not present altogether (I clearly remember that I had an O the day before! Most of the bacteriological tests were in the acute phase, but I also had normal findings in such cases even though the burning feeling was usually present).
2011. 08. Bacteriology test 3: Normal flora is present in very small number. Aside from normal E.coli count Klebsiella sp. was in great number. Dysbacteriosis?
2011. 09. Bacteriology test 4: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present. (Normal findings.)
2011. 11. imlaat autoantibodies: EMA IgA negative, EMA IgG negative, Transglea IgA: 1.2 U/ml (0.0-5.0), GSE serology negative (Gluten intolerance)
2012. 01. Lactose intolerance H2 breath test negative. I didn’t have a diarrhea, but lactulose still induced a heavy burning feeling when I went home. Lactase ensyme slightly helps in reducing the depression felt after eating. However milk actually helps to reduce the negative effects of coffee.
2012. 01. Bacteriology test 5: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present. (Normal findings.)
2012. 01. Parasite test 2: Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2012. 02. Dermatology: control examination.
2012. 03. Parasite test 3: Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2012. 04. Parasite test 4: Helminth identification: negative
2012. 06. Ophthalmology – Everything is as usual. USG of the eyes due to floaters: negative
2012. 08. Bacteriology test 6: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present also Salmonella Typhi negative, Salmonella Paratyphi negative. (Normal findings.)
2013. 02. Immunochemistry: sTSH: 4.080 mU/L (0.300-4.200 mU/L), FT4: 16.1 pmol/L (12.0-22.0 pmol/L), FT3: 5.9 pmol/L (2.4-6.3 pmol/L)
2013. 06. Otorhinolaryngology: Ear inflammation
2014. 04. Spinal radioscopy 2: Cervical rib can't be seen. The arc of the cervical lordosis is straightened. Height of the centrum is normal. Lamellas are smooth. Margins are intact. Cartilage gaps are not tighter. (Sensory neuropathy)
2014. 06. Reumathology: Dorsalgia, uncategorized (I had sensory neuropathy!)
2015. 08. Otorhinolaryngology: On the backside of the neck I developed two smaller lymph nodes on both sides that once or twice a year can get inflamed. They said it is not their department.
2015. 08. Dermatology: They couldn't do anything with it. They said to be on the lookout if it gets worse, but it hasn't so far fortunately.
2016. 11. USG: normal kidney, testicle USG: bilaterally normal echo structure of the testicles and epididymis.
2016. 12. Urology: manual prostate examination: normal, urine: normal – bacteria or fungi are not present. Uroflow: unsuccesful.
2018. 08. 14. Abdominal USG: negative (I had a constant abdominal discomfort for about three years, but one of the supplements made it disappear although I am not sure which.)
2018. 10. Otorhinolaryngology: Control
2019 spring:  The local Rare Disease Department: The professor have never heard about POIS, but checked on the net and confirmed. However he told me that he can't do anything as it is an andrological disease and not for his department.
2019 spring: Local Andrology: The doctor had heard about POIS, but he probably didn't know much. He asked me what I wanted, but I was not prepared for the question. In retrospect I should have asked for a hormonal screening. Nevertheless he told me they can't really do anything and I should seek help at the capital. Well I planned to go, but I am not very mobile and then came the pandemic so I couldn't since then.
2019. 04. (chronic phase) Parasite test 5: Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2019. 04. (chronic phase) Bacteriology test 7: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present. (Normal finding.)

Psychological anamnesis:
I took every medication regularly even when I didn't believe in their effectiveness. Unfortunately I hadn't documented the effects of the medication at the time and can't really remember much about the details.
2003. 12. It all started with a peculiar OCD onset that was driven by panic.
2004. 01. fluvoxamine [SSRI] (Fevarin 50 mg) – Based on the medical documentation I felt somewhat better from this.
2004. 03. paroxetine [SSRI] (Rexetin 20 mg) – I think I didn't take this or only a few as I had to go to the hospital (voluntarily of course) and there they gave me a lot of other pills.
2004. 03. olanzapine (Zyprexa 5 mg x 1), sertraline [SSRI] (Zoloft x 1), clonazepam [benzodiazepin] (Rivotril 0.5 mg x 3)
Zyprexa, Zeldox: In retrospect I don't believe they did much good to me.  I shouldn't had taken Rivotril for such a long time, but it was the only thing that could manage my panic. I don't remember every detail, but it certainly enhanced my mental depression and made me even more forgetful. Actually it was for the best because it made me so ill that I couldn't concentrate on my panic.
Taking Zyprexa led me to gain 20 kg in half a year and it resulted in an almost fatal hernia with a blockage. Thanks to surgery I survived. It was a "real experience" when the doctor tried to feel out the position of my intestines through the testicle.
2005. Zyprexa –> ziprazidon Zeldox 40 mg
Zoloft worked really well, but I only discovered it after I stopped taking Zyprexa. Zoloft could shorten my POIS days, but it never occurred to me to time it to O. I only took it as I was told to.
2007. 01. Zeldox 40 mg, Rivotril 0.5 mg 3 x 1, Zoloft ? Sertwin 50 mg, then 100 mg.
Zoloft worked really well, but I didn't have any income at the time so I wanted to switch to a cheaper medication.
I was in the acute phase of POIS when I had no Zoloft medication left and that is when I developed a serotonin deprivation syndrome.  I had never felt so well in the previous years so it struck me quite profoundly. My mind worked so well compared to when I feel like I am a dead weight in a dead body. I had some pain and a slightly bloody stool as a side effect and no burning feeling at all. Unfortunately symptoms reappeared in the following days and POIS reestablished itself.
I tried to tell at the psychiatry that this was something important, but they didn't even document this. Well I can hardly blame them as why should they had cared about an imaginary disease that disappeared for a short time due to a regular withdrawal symptom.
2007. 08. Zeldox 40 mg, Rivotril 0.5 mg 3 x 1, sertraline (Sertwin 100 mg) (based on the documentation I was agitated, but this could had been a life issue) –> citalopram [SSRI] (Citagen 20 mg): my mood was better from this
2008. 02. Zeldox, Rivotril, Citagen ? tiaprid (Tiapridal 100 mg) 3 x half pill: First I felt better, but later it enhanced my OCD.
2008. 03. Zeldox, Rivotril, Tiapridal ? Citagen 20 mg
2009. 01. Rivotril 0,5 mg x 3, Citagen 20 mg, Zeldox –> clozapin (Leponex 25 mg) Morning: half + Evening: one and a half.
Stopping Zeldox was especially hard. Its withdrawal symptom was that I couldn't sleep for a month.
Well technically I slept, but it was like I shut my eyes then opened it a moment later to realize that it was morning. At other times it felt like a restless half-sleep/awake. Even though I slept I didn't feel rested. After a few weeks the tiredness accumulated and I felt like I was going to die if I don't take Zeldox again. Fortunately there came a day when my sleeping became a bit more restful and it got better with every day.
2009. 02. Rivotril + Citalopram, Leponex. I couldn't take Leponex as it hypotonised me.
2009. 10. Rivotril + Citalopram (I took it in a smaller dose as it made me tired, but it might had been Rivotril actually –> venlafaxin [SNRI] (Velaxin 75 mg Retard)
2009. 11. Rivotril + Venlafaxin Sandoz 150 mg Retard (I didn't report any side effects and my mood was quite good.)
My POIS wasn't cured otherwise I would have reported it and so the doctor kept switching the medication so that we might find a better one. I also forgot about it as I was not checking the papers and only recently realized that it could be worth to recheck it and probably other SNRIs as well.
My OCD also resolved around 2010, but I don't exactly remember when. It was probably due to a resignation towards panic to which I got attenuated. However I also developed a kind of profound self loathing. This hate was not directed towards my mind, but rather my body. I think this is why I developed a kind of pseudoschizophrenia where I felt a profound alienation from my body, while I simply couldn't blame my mind for it. Nevertheless I have never had any suicidal thoughts.
2010. 02. Venlafaxin  –> quetiapine (Seroquel Xr 200 mg retard) – At first I felt myself better, but later I had enhanced anxiety. I said my thinking was better, but the doctor considered it too vivid.
2010. 03. Rivotril + Seroquel Xr 300 mg retard – As I remember it made me sleep 10+ hours daily (at times even 15 hours) and I still felt sleepy all the time. It is possible that sleeping a lot had a good effect on my POIS as my body was recuperating more. However I practically had no life left besides sleeping.
2010. 05. Rivotril + Seroquel –> quetiapine (Nantarid 25 mg) 2x1+ paroxetine (Parogen 20 mg)
I didn't take any of these as this was the point I got fed up of antipsychotics and decided to stop them altogether.
2011. 04. I went to the doctor for control, but I only took Rivotril in a small dosage.
2011. 09. I told the doctor that I wanted to stop Rivotril as well.
It may sound hard to believe, but it was really hard to stop with the last pill. I had to cut up the 0.5 mg pill and taking one eight less each day. I still had withdrawal symptoms like feeling unwell, sleeping badly and strange pain effects. For a time after this I felt really good as the light gain a new shine and I was feeling a bit euphoric.
2013. 02. I was at the hospital for a psychological checkup. My physiological symptoms were not considered as I had no proof to back up anything. I also couldn't masturbate at the time so I actually felt better. The final diagnosis was schizophrenia although the doctor said I was an especially difficult case and they discussed my case a lot. They had a hard time deciding as some of my symptoms were very typical of schizophrenia while other were totally not.
They also gave me some pills while I was in: klomipramin (Anafranil Sr 75 mg retard) and amisulprid (Amisulprid-Ratiopharm 200 mg). I don't really know what amisulprid does as I only continued to take Anafranil when I came out. Anafranil greatly reduced my sexual desire. When I masturbated I had a really hard time achieving orgasm, but when I finally managed POIS came in full force.
I also stopped taking it and only went for control to the psychiatry. Even then I usually only talked with the assistant about my daily problems for a few minutes, but I refused medication. A few years ago my doctor retired and I didn't want to explain everything again to a new doctor so I simply stopped going.
In the last few years I was fixed on repaying my tuition debt and couldn't spend on supplements. Actually I thought it was futile and doctors and family confirmed this. I haven't even tried to find the disease as I thought I was the only one who had such a problem on the whole world.

Self-tests:
Alcoholic probe: As POIS somewhat feels like having a hang-over I thought that it may show something, however it certainly didn't.
Stool pH was 8, semen pH was 8.
11 component urinary rapid test: pH is usually around 5-6. Specific gravity is always a bright yellow which is the highest value (1030) according to the test. Ascorbic acid is somewhat elevated when I do a lot of physical work, but this is supposed to be normal. The other parameters that are always negative: urobilinogen, glucose, bilirubin, ketones, blood, protein, nitrite, leukocytes.
The rapid test for Clostridium difficile toxin A and B from stool sample proved to be negative (2019).

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: BoneBroth on April 20, 2021, 02:18:42 AM

Hi Progecitor!

Thanks for your great documentation! I have an almost identical symptom-history. I will take some time to analyse it. I'm planning to do a organ/symptom/analyse value list that helps us understand what organ is causing each symptom. I belive that the POIS related inflammation (caused by some hormonal inbalance) is comproimising organs in the whole body - specifically organs that has a high blood flow: blood vessels, heart, liver, kidney, brain and intestines. This explains why we experience so many diffrent symptoms.

Each organ gives it own symptom when function is decreased (or in chain reactions). Depending on what organ is the weakest link the symptoms appears diffrently on diffrent people. Some examples:

• Kidney -> Low blood pressure, POTS, headache, varicose veins, slow intestines/constipation. I'm staring to belive the kidneys might be the most important organs relating to POIS symptoms since they are regulating the blood pressure - an adequate blood supply is everything for a good health
• Liver/gall bladder - > Acne, varicose veins, yellowish stools, headache, blood pooling, thick blood, liver spots, low bilirubin levels and alcohol sensitivity.
• Intestines - > Bloating, gas, candida, leaky gut, skin issues, coated tounge which leads to vitamin deficiency, advanced hormonal imblances, SIBO, auto-immune disorders (that cause damage on the same organ as POIS inflammation) and headache
• Brain -> Headache, depression, no motivation and a long list of symptoms because of decreased function in hypothalamus/pitutary
• Thyroid -> Temperature regulation, hotflash, difficulty sleeping, muscle weakness, hyperactivity.
• Adrenal -> Cortisol excess followed by cortisol decline -> inflammation, testosterone deficiency. Cushing's syndrome, Addison's disease.
• CNS (Central Nervous System) - > tingeling, difficult to breath, sudden urge to urinate
• Blood vessels/blood - > varicose veins, blood pooling (thick blood) because of clumping platelets
• Gonads  -> Testosterone deficiency, slow healing process, aggregated inflammation

 
When the intestinal function is damaged it will in time lead to similar symptoms as POIS, because the process is the same: A leaky gut will leak substances into the blood stream and when those substances attach to organs the immune system will send lymphocyes to the site and cause inflammation. But instead of inflammatory hormones and hormonal break down products, this inflammation is caused by substances iike proteins, bacterias, fungus etcetera that should not normally escape from the walls of the intestines. 

This came clear to me as I fixed my acne issue after doing a liver cleanse (I dont get as severe acne after POIS now). I still get the other symptoms on POIS, but not so much the liver related, since the liver is now somewhat restored (with nutrition/detox). On POIS the liver might be so inflamed that might be working on only 5-30% of its normal rate (this is not easy to analyse due to the complexity of the livers detoxification stages, the stage 1 detoxificaiton pathway might work, but the path 2 pathway might halt. This leads to accumulated toxins in the whole body (headache). Some hormonal breakdown products are 10 times more toxic/inflammatry then the hormones itself. A compromised liver is very damaging for your health in th elong run, however the liver has a tremendously capability to heal, even in a very bad stage.

With this view it might be more easy to plan mesures for the restoration phase. But you cant scoop water from a sinking ship forever. Although restoration is essential for the healing process the cause of POIS still must be solved. The main measure would be stress management and restraining from orgasm for at least a year. I get into more detail in my info below.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on May 17, 2021, 02:29:15 PM

A list of the supplements, herbal teas, exotic spices and medications that have worked so far.
I tried to make an approximate intensity comparison, however it is not necessarily correct. The order from left to right also represents a subjective scale. I may reevaluate some of them with more testing.
Please don't consider the order in the average and weak list as it would take years of rigorous testing to provide a more accurate list. The ones that I put in the good category have a noticeable effect, while the ones I put in the best have a considerable positive effect on symptoms.
It is important to note that when I talk about a weak or moderate reduction in POIS it usually means that they don't actually reduce depression or bloodshot eyes, but rather that they ameliorate the burning pain and as such can probably prevent symptom aggravation, which in a way is a positive effect in itself. I could say they have a general anti-inflammatory effect, but I am not sure if this was a correct term as even POIS seems to have a kind of anti-inflammatory property.
If anyone wanted to check if he or maybe she has a similar POIS as mine, I would first recommend trying MACA and saffron as they have a considerable positive effect without any major side effects.

Recently I had to shorten the tests even further as I feel like I am getting nowhere in my life even though I have already found quite a few good remedies. "Unfortunately" I became a bit addicted to buying new stuff and the shelves are getting clogged up faster than I can remove the items. Making the tests shorter also makes them even less reliable. Although if something works really well, then it is apparent from the first day most of the time, however if something is only a little beneficial it is much harder to estimate the exact efficacy. I would still recommend supplements up from the moderate category as at least some of them should provide a noticeable benefit to others as well. I only wish I could test some prescription drugs as well, so that a correlation to other cases would be easier.

Rd = Recommended dosage per day
se: considerable side effects

The best: lucerne (alfalfa) (se?), saffron, MACA extract capsules (yellow), Ecdysterone, Mexican Wild Yam Root (se), Resveratrol (Polygonum cuspidatum), Diosgenin (wild yam root), licorice (se), drotaverine (No-Spa), astaxanthin + vit. E, lungwort tea (Pulmonaria officinalis), L-Tryptophan (se), yellow maca powder, Damiana, Catuaba bark, Giloy (Guduchi), Suma, Yerba mate, lycopene + vit. E, alfalfa powder (se), charcoal capsules (se), Rumalaya forte, Maca extract, Hericium extract, Turkesterone, Niacin, Lycopene, Daily 10000 IU vitamin D3, Vitamin and mineral complex (Centrum A-Z), Mg-citrate, Immune support complex, Elderberry, Dandelion root extract, Yohimbine (retest), Pomegranate fruit, vitamin E-400, Chyawanprash 1, Chasteberry fruit capsules (se?), L-carnosine, Zinc citrate, Dextromethorphan/DXM, Chyavanaprasha 2, Drena Flux, Zinc picolinate, Naphazoline eye drops, Evening primrose 2, Caffeine capsules, Horny goat weed/maca, Cordyceps, Immune Aid, Pro-erection capsules, Yohimbine and Rauwolscine, "Hero Power" maca complex, Fluvoxamine (se), L-Dopa (retest), Indole-3-carbinol (I3C) (retest), ginger (retest)

The good: Medicinal mushroom mix (se), seven mushroom mix, Tongkat Ali, Lion’s mane, Tribulus terrestris, Phosphatidylserine, L-Theanine, Milk thistle-artichoke-dandelion capsules, milk thistle (sylimarin) oil, Ginkgo Biloba, Reishi Ganoderma powder, Fennel seed caps, Black poplar tincture, Resveratrol+Inulin, Myricetin, Maca 20:1 extract, Masticha original, Chios Mastiha lozenges, Berberine, Red rice yeast extract, Echinacea + Beta glucan, Chaga, Guggul, SNRI (Venlafaxine), SSRIs (serotonin deprivation syndrome due to Zoloft was better), Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan (Maitake), Cordyceps, mangosteen, Muira Puama, Diosmin + Hesperidin, Turkey tail, Astaxanthin Forte, Black Cohosh, Cat’s claw, Perilla, Beta-sitosterol, Andrographis, diatomaceous earth, lavender tea, raspberry leaves tea, White horehound tea, Arjuna, Sarsaparilla root (se), Pure oregano oil, Saffron + lycopene (se?), Huanarpo macho, Chuchuhuasi, Hercampuri, Huminiqum (se?), Chasteberry tea, MACA (Nowfoods), Urinary tract support tincture, Cistanche, Kola Nut-Catuaba-Guarana, Ipriflavone complex, Brazilian bee propolis trio, Houttuynia, Chrysanthemum tea, Greater burdock root tea, D,L-Phenylalanine, King trumpet mushroom, Fadogia agrestis, Male Vascular Sexual Support/Black Ginger, Ginseng complex for man, Raw black cumin, Holy basil/Tulsi, Coenzyme Q10 + Vitamin E, L-theanine, Green cardamom caps, Rhodiola rosea root, Damiana leaf tea, southern wormwood tea, D-ribose, Methylene blue (se), Bile production stimulating complex, Nasal drops 1, Echinacea (se), Benfotiamine 1, Rutin, St John’s wort, Devil's claw, Sea-buckthorn, Hawthorn extract, Brewer’s Yeast, Muira puama extract syrup, Chaga extract powder, Celery seeds tea, L-Proline (se), Saffron extract, Pygeum (retest), Slippery Elm (retest), Corn silk tea (retest)

Moderately beneficial: niacinamide (Vitamin B3), Echinacea drops, melatonin, ibuprofen, tea tree oil, Ashwagandha, papaya pills, lansoprazole (Refluxon), Gotu Kola, bitter gourd, Garcinia cambogia, Nutrisan RespiCalm, Vitamin C-1000+, safflower oil, Triphala, Chinese skullcap, Magnolia bark, Coenzyme Q10 Forte, Relora, Eucommia Bark, Herbal pause, red grape skin powder, Pterostilbene, Boswellia serrata (se), Ginseng Royal Jelly, Horny goat tincture, Camu-camu, Boron, Aloe vera, goldenrod tea, willow bark tea, Deep-red grape pure fresh juice, Jujube, Pot marigold tea, Allegra, Cetirizine, Autophagy renew (luteolin+piperlongumin), Panax ginseng, Butea superba root, Celery parsley seed oil, Bio-Fisetin, Lotus seed tea, Argan oil, Baobab powder, Fennel seed tea, Citrulline malate, Geranium, Musta/Nut Grass, Danshen, CBD oil, Shankhpushpi, African Mango, Pangdahai tea, Saffron extract caps, Graviola/Soursop, Health speedwell tea, Sweet woodruff tea, Dwarf everlast tea, Sweet basil tea, Blessed thistle tea, Couch Grass tea, Policosanol, White mulberry, Phosphatidylcholine, Common knotgrass tea, Common verbena tea, Yellow gentian tea, Walnuts, Septilin, Grapefruit seed, Zhu Ling Mushroom, Common thyme tea, Guarana, Stephania, Provence wild flowers blend, Butterbur (se), (American) Ginseng, Ribwort plantain tea, Herb Robert tea, Lovage root tea, DMAE, Yellow dock root, Oak bark tea, Coltsfoot leaf tea (se), Cryptolepis tincture, Rehmannia Six Combination, Cognitex Elite, Jing formula, Ground milk thistle seeds, Colloidal silver, SAM-e, R-lipoic acid, generic propolis, Monolaurin, Suppository for prostatitis, Lactoferrin powder, Milk thistle extract, Myo-inositol powder, Loperamide, Bovine collagen, 7 mushroom powder (se), Reishi extract, Krill oil, N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC), B12 Forte, L-Methionine (se?), balsamic vinegar, Turmeric extract, Pygeum, Iberogast (se), Passion flower extract, Pterostilbene, Wood betony tea, Mullein flower tea, Bupropion, Rutin, Alpha lipoic acid, Eyes drops for allergy 1, Benfotiamine 2, Ener-C, Mangosteen, L-arginine (se), Peppermint oil, Sulforaphane, Sunflower lecithin, Spermidine, Nattokinase enzyme, Ahiflower seed oil, Urinogenitary apparatus support caps 3, Asthiprash jam, Black poplar buds tea, Shukraprash jam, Mutraprash jam, Cleavers tea, Star anise tea, Cowslip primrose root tea, Spiny restharrow tea, Cherry stalks tea, Lemon grass powder

The weak (and weak-moderate): chamomile extract capsule, lemon balm tea, linden tea (Tilia), chamomile tea, soy lecithin, Sulforaphan, NAC, Vitamin B12, Vitamin B6 (se), GABA, chia seeds, black tea, artichoke tea, common centaury tea, Galega tea, anise tea (se), rosemary tea, safflower spice tea, hops tea, Physalis, grape seed extract, fenugreek, Naproxen, Testosterol 250, charcoal pills, magnesium, beta-sitosterol (se), red clover, garlic gelcapsules, spirulina, Shatavari, jasmine infused green tea, nutmeg, passionflower, Creatine HCl (se), Cascara sagrada, Bacopa, Artemizia, selenium, alpha lipoic acid (ALA), coenzyme Q10, flaxseed/linseed oil, feverfew tincture, siberian ginseng, Zembrin - Kanna (se),  inositol, DHM, amla, red maca, black maca, asafoetida (se), Wuweizi, spermidine, green barley powder (se), Quercetin+Rhodiola rosea+galangal combo, Ceylon cinnamon, noni fruit, wheat grass powder, cardamom, black cumin, bakuchi, juniper berries, eyebright tea, Forskolin, fish oil (se), aronia, glycine, simethicone, Rhubarb, Resveratrol (yeast fermented), hyaluronic acid, fermented black garlic, aged fermented black garlic, cedar oil, Sea kelp, Lithium orotate, Goji berry, Jiaogulan tea, Lyophilized Shiitake slices, Sea-buckthorn leaves tea, Pau D’Arco, MSM, Dong quai, Calcium pyruvate, Calcium D-Glucarate, Pulsatilla 30CH, Pine Bark, Quinoa, Pomegranate (extract), Oat straw, Devil’s tongue (glucomannan), Caprylic acid, Astragalus, Allerdin, Siberian fir needle oil, Neem powder, KETO DHEA (se), fructose, Bladderwrack, Shaggy mane, Butcher’s broom, Mullein tea, Spearmint tea, Bergamot, Smallflower hairy willowherb tea, Horsemint tea, Yellow toadflax tea, Claritin, Rooibos tea, Marshmallow root tea, Lucuma, Almond oil, Sesame oil, Fenugreek extract, Olive oil (pomace), Omega-3 fish oil, Corn germ oil, Mesquite, Shiitake powder, Ajwain, Coriander seeds, Caraway, Guinea grains, Voatsiperifery pepper, canned Jackfruit, Sumac, BCAA, Punarnava, St John’s Wort tea, L-Lysine, Lyophilized black wood ear, Long pepper, Sun mushroom, Woad root tea, Bamboo shoot, Quercetin caps,  Allspice, Clove, Erythritol, Chervil, Motherwort, Monk fruit tea, chocolate pepper, Rose petal tea, Jasmine petal tea, sage tea, Indian Coleus, Mistletoe tea, Chives, Chicory root tea, Absinthe wormwood tea, Peppermint tea, Chancapiedra, Hyssop tea, Black summer truffle, Yucca, Common mugwort tea, Sacha Inchi oil, Shilajit, Chickweed tea, Sweet flag tea, Lactobacillus plantarum, Red Pu-Erh tea, Snow hundred beauty tea, Sencha tea, Common mallow tea, White Mustard seeds, Stoneroot, Kidney bean pod tea, Modulen IBD, Manunka propolis, Kalory Emergency 1000, Folic acid + Thiamine, Diclofenac Potassium, Hoodia, Shark cartilage, PQQ, Chlorella, Molybdenum, Buchu leaf, Common agrimony tea, Wild strawberry leaves tea, Common sorrel tea, Blackthorn flower tea, Ambroxol, Valeriana root, Schizandra tincture, Desmodium, Green coffee, Wild herbs spice blend, Levocetirizine, Chitosan, Celeriac pills, L-ornithine (se), Bavarian Herbal Bitters, Genius sleep aid, Trehalose, Selenium, Meadowsweet tea, Common fumitory tea, Silverweed tea, Chios gum mastic, Moringa, Cubeb, Nettle leaf tea, White dead nettle tea, Elecampane tea, Shepherd's purse tea, Stinging nettle root tea, Coconut flower/blossom sugar, Rutin + Vitamin C pills, Dill seeds tea, Arrowroot flour, Gymnema Sylvestre/Gurmar, Hemp-agrimony tea, Bear’s garlic leaf tea, Taurine and apigenin complex, Olive leaf extract, Colostrum, HMB, Amaranth seeds, D.A.A., Arginine A.K.G., Bilberry leaf tea, Common club moss tea, Blackberry leaf tea, Summer savory (Satureja) tea, Blue fenugreek, Horsetail caps and tea, Pantothenic acid, Black sesame seeds, Xanthan gum, Silver birch leaf tea, Agar-agar powder, Vinpocetine, Purslane, Macadamia nuts, Evening primrose seeds, Cashew nuts, Lemon verbena tea, Pecan nuts, Ironwort/mountain tea, Pellitory/bertram, Guar gum, Digestion herbal blend, Inulin powder, Hepafix, Capers, Powdered blond plantain husks, Pectin, Couch grass 2, Garden cress sprout, Walnut leaf tea, Dimenhydrinate, Tamsulosin, Glutathione, Glutathione complex, Oyster mushroom extract, Shark liver oil complex, Shark liver oil, Oregano capsules, Apple cider vinegar, Royal Jelly, Lion’s mane powder, Cordyceps extract, Catalase, Betaine HCL, Thyme and propolis, Quercetin Plus, small catuaba caps, small catuaba tea, raw garlic, Oregano oil in corn germ oil, Bhringaraj powder, Fish collagen, Hydrolysed collagen, Oyster mushroom + King trumpet mushroom, Beta glucan plus maitake, Norwegian salmon oil, N-acetyl-carnitine (ALCAR), TUDCA+NAC, Glucosamine sulphate, Liposomal vitamin C+D3+Zn, Vitamin K2, B complex vitamin 1/2, Vitamin B2 (riboflavin), Mg-threonate, Mg-malate, Mg-bisglycinate, Mg-orotate, Lutein 1/2, Essential amino acids - EAA, L-Valine, L-Threonine, L-Serine, Anise + Activated charcoal, Diosmin and hesperedin complex, Marjoram tea, Calcium D-Glucarate, Carnosic acid (low dose), Pine bark extract, Propolis caps, Propolis tincture, PABA, LIV.52, Spinach powder, Kale powder, Spirulina powder, lemon grass powder, Valeriana/lemon balm/magnesium, Ground-ivy tea, Guaiacwood tea, Siberian ginseng root tea, Hazel leaves tea, Linden bark tea, Galangal root tea, Nutmeg flower tea, Common heather tea, Tafedim tea (se), Lorazepam, Eye drops for eye redness 2, P-5-P (se?), ATP, Fenugreek leaf tea, Ultra man (se), Beeswax Honey, Choline/Inositol, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine, Pregnenolone and DHEA combination, Propolis, Potassium citrate, Red clover honey, Guaifenesin syrup, Idebenone, Azelastine eye drops, Cystone, Hordenine, Aronia tincture, Extra virgin olive oil, Arjuna tea, Vanadyl sulfate, Citicoline, Prenoxdiazine hydrochloride, German bearded iris tea, Bearberry tea, Lime leaves tea

Mixed effects on POIS or ineffective: zinc (se), chasteberry (Vitex agnus-castus) (se), matcha powder tea, green tea capsules, CLA, evening primrose oil, Aspirin (se), cod fish oil (DHA/EPA) (se), acai berry, Fo-ti (Polygonum multiflorum), beta alanine, oregano, Tricolor Maca, sodium butyrate, Tyrosine, Cassia cinnamon, DIM complex (+phosphatidyl choline), Turmeric, cascara (coffee cherry fruit) tea, Saw palmetto, Lady's mantle tea, Iceland moss tea, Maqui, Tonka Bean, Xylitol, Tamarind, coffee, White kidney bean extract, Glucuronolactone, Celery seed, Common melilot, Pine pollen, Tarragon/estragon, Ultimate Women’s Intimate Performance, Copper Glycinate, Dill plant, L-Glutamine, L-Leucine, Mirtazapin, China rubra 30CH, Yarrows tea,Arabian seven spice blend, Turmeric powder, Herbal Gallbladder care, Black maca complex, Black cumin seed oil, Black cumin oil plus capsules, Probiotic complex, Boswellia paste,  Beetroot powder, Mg-taurate, HMB 2250, Cranberry extract

The bad:
biotin (Vitamin B7), clonazepam (Rivotril), paracetamol, taurine, turmeric, black pepper, lemongrass tea, sage tea, Kudzu, Pregnenolone, canola oil, synephrine, Satureja tea, Choline-chloride, lactulose, Robinia white flower tea, Chicory coffee, Rock salt with herbs, Sodium benzoate, Iron complex with folic acid, Active folic acid (Quatrefolic form)

I will add more details later, but most of the information can be found in my research thread:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3733.0

Or the more recent research threads:
A model for metabolic syndrome:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3986.0
The estrogen balance and 3 beta adiol:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4061.0
Senescence and SASP
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4321.0
Autoimmunity due to abnormal viral pattern recognition mechanism involving RIG-I:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4535.0

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on September 06, 2021, 10:21:48 AM

Details:

Licorice - Glycyrrhiza glabra [400 mg per capsule from which 16 mg is glycyrrhetinic acid]:
I had one capsule the previous morning and one in the morning. About 8 hours later I took another one and 3 hours later I had an O. Right after it I took another one (18 h). So on that day I took 1200 mg of licorice of which 48 mg was glycyrrhetinic acid.
It reduced POIS somewhat at its onset, but I still had symptoms like weakly bloodshot eyes. I measured it several times and my blood pressure didn't seem to change, but I had other side-effects. In the first hours I felt transient slight pain sensations all over the body and developed some mild headache or discomfort, although it is hard to tell if the latter was not due to POIS itself. Another worrisome symptom was a recurring weak heart ache or cramping that I felt from time to time even in the next morning. I think licorice only has side-effects at first. It was around the time I went to bed when I began to feel myself somewhat better. It was 8 hours after I took the second capsule and I mean the first one in the afternoon. I got up after three hours of sleep to take a leak and I definitely felt better at the time. In the morning I generally felt better, but I still had a weak level of POIS. I still had some depression, but the eyes were relatively well. The nodules in the breast were moderately reduced. The burning feeling noticeably reduced and the quality of the stool was better. The best was that I could walk relatively easily without feeling the fatigue-like burden on my muscles. So licorice really has a beneficial effect on my POIS, but its side-effects prevent me from using a higher dose.
Licorice also contains phytoestrogens, so I am not even sure if its beneficial effects are really due to glycyrrhetinic acid.

Chamomile extract capsule: 1 capsule containing 250 mg chamomile extract with 2.5 mg apigenin.
1 capsule doesn't seem to do anything noticeable, however consuming 2 x 2 capsules with a few hours of difference surely has a weak-moderate effect on the burning pain and thus somewhat reduces all POIS symptoms. So all in all it was 1000 mg chamomile extract containing 10 mg apigenin. By the way it was also equivalent with 10 g chamomile flower. The medicinal mushroom capsule I mentioned previously contained 9 mg apigenin, but it had a better effect, so apigenin really seems to help, but it is better if it is combined with other things as well.

Turmeric: I tried it three times by consuming about one tablespoon cooking grade turmeric powder mixed in some water. It doesn't have any rapid effect, but every time I had bloodshot eyes in the next morning and the burning sensation was also enhanced. On the last occasion I also added some black pepper and everything was about the same. I have tried to avoid black pepper for years as I have already suspected it to be bad for my POIS. Still I need to test it a bit further and maybe with higher doses for a definite conclusion.

Chasteberry [400 mg per capsule]: It is supposed to increase progesteron in women. Well it may not do so in man. The first time I took one it unexpectedly induced a weak-moderate ass muscle inflammation (probably not a POIS symptom), but this disappeared in a few hours (after consumption from 2 o 6 hours). At another day I took one in the morning and one in the afternoon. However this kind of inflammation only appeared very weakly.
In regard of POIS symptoms it didn't reduce depression and I still had bloodshot eyes. It may have reduced the burning feeling a bit, but I am not really sure without a more extensive testing. Another thing I noticed was a weak bulging of some blood vessels a few hours after consumption, however blood pressure was alright. All-in-all I could also say that it had practically no effect.
The product doesn't specify what part of the plant was used, but it is probably the leaves or the fruit. The seeds are sold separately and they are said to be antiaphrodisiac, so I will have to test them too.

Melatonin: I have only tested a lower dose (2 mg) so far. It makes me somewhat sleepy, but this passes after a short time. There are no rapid effects, but it can somewhat reduce the burning feeling. I will try higher doses, but I don't want to mess up the circadian rhythm. It may serve well in an evening stack, especially if I wanted to do "sex" in the morning.

Anise tea [about 1 liter]: As it is another estrogen receptor modulator I thought it could be interesting to test. It doesn’t seem like it does anything particular to my POIS symptoms, however it can give me a headache. Could this be something similar as what I experienced with Kudzu?

Galega/goat's-rue/French lilac tea (Galega officinalis) [about 1 liter]: It raised my interest as it is another traditional antidiabetic tea and it contains some compounds that formed the basis for the development for metformin. I expected it to potentially modulate POIS, however this proved to be in vain. It seems to have some beneficial effect on POIS, however this effect is quite subdued.

Garlic pills [10 mg per gelcapsule]: I took garlic capsules from the morning with 3-4 hours of difference. It definitely reduces the burning feeling moderately. After taking the third I had an O two and a half hour later, after which I took another garlic capsule and three hours later a last one before going to sleep. When I got up in the middle of the night to take a leak I also took a garlic capsule. This way garlic couldn't definitely prevent POIS as I still had bloodshot eyes, however besides the reduced burning sensation I had reduced rhinitis. In the morning I felt that I had more energy. So garlic is definitely helpful, however on its own it is not an adequate treatment.

CLA [2000 mg per gelcapsule]: It has some effect on POIS, but its quality seems to be mixed and weak, so it doesn't really do anything to symptoms or only weakly enhances POIS. Nevertheless it is not a supplement I am going to incorporate in my regime.

Evening primrose oil [500 mg per gelcapsule of which 45 mg is gamma-linolenic acid]: It has mixed effects just like CLA. I took four capsules in a day. Although primrose oil can reduce the burning pain, it doesn't make a real difference. It also induces bloodshot eyes almost every time I take it, which is a no good for me. 

Ayurveda tea: The most indicated ingredients are Withania somnifera and Centella asiatica, but it also contains cymbopogon citratus, glycyrrhiza glabra, pterocarpus marsupium, zingeber officinale, ocimum sanctum, cinnamomum tamala, cinnamomum zeylanicum. I had some negative experience with it. I only drank it three times, but as I remember it gave me a headache every time. I even developed a chest inflammation after one occasion, although it was possibly not due to the tea. Due to this I was a bit skeptical about Ashwagandha and Gotu Kola.

Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) [240 mg per capsule of which 12 mg is Withanolid]: I took one capsule in the morning and one another five hours later. I took a third one six hours later and had an O two and a half hours after that. To my wonder this partially managed to prevent POIS onset as I didn't really develop bloodshot eyes and the burning sensation was also reduced. In the morning I had a somewhat reduced fatigue and depression, however I had bloodshot eyes and the burning pain was moderate. After testing it some more I realize that at first I overestimated Ashwagandha’s benefit as it didn't prove to be that effective on acute days. At best it may be as good as berberine, however I need to take at least four capsules for this and there could be adverse side-effects if I used such an amount regularly.

Gotu Kola (Centella asiatica aerial parts) [435 mg per capsule]: Another suspicious one that proved to the contrary. I took one in the morning then another in the afternoon and a third one in the evening after which I had an O one hour later. I didn't develop bloodshot eyes right after O, but I had some cramping intestinal pain. In the morning I generally felt somewhat better, than I would usually expect, however I still had a moderate burning pain and thus POIS symptoms as well.

Mexican Wild Yam Root [425 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: Another great one! This one considerably reduces POIS symptoms, however serious side effects may make it difficult to use effectively. It also has a rather rapid effect. Shortly after the first capsule I began to feel a reduction in my chronic symptoms, so I decided to test it more seriously and had an O two hours later. POIS onset was rather mild (e.g. only mild bloodshot eyes). Four hours later I took another one before going to sleep. My eyes were rather clear at this time which means that the first one was still in effect. In the morning I felt rather great. I could best compare the degree of its effect to licorice.
However my joy proved short lived as shortly after taking the third one in the morning I developed a serious back pain. The pain seemed to originate from around the left lung and radiated to my back. I could breathe well though, but any movement induced a sharp pain. This lasted for about one and a half day then it disappeared. Of course I had similar cases in the past, but it is more usual that the pain radiates to the front and that is why I call it chest pain. This whole episode reminded me to my experiences with medicinal mushrooms which can also induce a similar effect when I use them as a singular treatment in high dose.
At another occasion I only took one capsule 3 and a half hours before an O although I also drank some saffron tea. At least this proved to be safe. It has yet to be determined if two capsules are safe or not. By the way I think wild yam capsules are best taken about 2-3 hours before an O.
As wild yam is marketed as a traditional women's health support it makes me think that a hormonal imbalance theory seems even more probable as the origin of POIS.

Red clover (Trifolium pratense) [Red clover flower tops 375 mg per capsule including 76 mg isoflavanoids; Rd: 1-2]: It has a beneficial effect, although not to a great degree. I took 3 capsules per day and even had an O with it, however it was only about as effective as garlic pills. Side effects were short sporadic pain effects at different places, but it was only a nuisance.

Naproxen [220 mg Naproxen Sodium which equals 200 mg of Naproxen; Rd: 1-2 or 3 at max]: At most I took 3 and a half pills. I haven't had an O with it, but it reduced the burning pain weakly.

Matcha tea: When I first tried matcha tea it seemed to be good, but now I have to reconsider this after I tested it a bit more. The conclusion I made that it is only weakly beneficial or not at all. I drank one teaspoon (about 4 g x 3) of matcha tea three times a day. I couldn't really notice any change in symptoms during the acute period. The only notable thing is that the lymph nodes in my breasts got inflamed which doesn't occur frequently otherwise, but this may have been a coincidence only.

Green tea capsules [500 mg per capsule: 80% polyphenols, 60% catechins, EGCG: 225 mg, caffein: 10 mg, Rd: 1]: I took two capsules in a day, but I couldn't perceive any change whatsoever. Later I will try it in some combinations, however I can't believe that prolonged use would make it any more effective for me.

Black tea: I discovered it last year that it has a certain positive effect when consumed in greater amounts (about 1-2 l). It helped in some POIS recovery cases. I also noticed that sucking on the used filter can rapidly alleviate a sore throat, although only for a few minutes. I also realize that different brands have considerably different effectiveness. Unfortunately I couldn't find the brand that worked well before and my current one is not the best.

Niacinamide: I also tested combinations of matcha tea and black tea with niacinamide separately, however I couldn't see any great difference compared to their base effects. I didn't have an O, but I was on acute days and exercise intolerance is an everyday issue nowadays, so there was place for improvement. I also think that niacinamide is most effective about 8-10 hours after consumption. This doesn't mean that taking another one before an O would be a bad idea or that other POIS types would react with the same timing.

Testosterol 250 [In one capsule it contains 250mg plant sterol, 15 mg inuline and some more, Rd: 1]:
This one is marketed as a popular testosterone booster. I really hoped it would work, however I had to be disappointed. It had a weak positive effect after an O when I took three capsules in a day, but I simply don't see any point in further raising the dosage.

Pregnenolone [50 mg per capsule Rd:1]: It seemed to be an interesting one to try, so I did. Unfortunately it proved to be of no use. I think it actually makes my symptoms worse, although not very apparently. The bloodshot eyes were especially bad on the days when I used it and depression hadn't changed whatsoever. I think the stool had a burning quality more so than usual, however this is rather difficult to judge accurately. Two times I wanted to take another capsule for a greater effect, however after looking at my eyes in the mirror I just didn't dare to.

Grape seed extract (Vitis Vinifera) [200 mg extract in 4 pills of which 190 mg is proanthocyanidine; Rd: 4]: I took 4 to 6 on consecutive days. As far as I could judge it only has a weak beneficial effect, but nothing considerable.

Hops tea [about 1L]: I think it has a weak beneficial effect, but nothing considerable.

Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan [100 mg Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan powder and 160 mg Maitake Mushroom powder; Rd: 1]: I took 3 in a day and it definitely has a good effect on POIS. I also had an O with it and I could perceive an antidepressive effect, however I still had bloodshot eyes to a degree and didn't feel exactly well. It may have about the same effectiveness as Cordyceps, although I would need a consecutive test to be able to judge this.
I also bought several other types of mushroom supplements and I am really interested in trying those as well.

Soy beans (bio, cooked for one hour with only a little added salt): I ate about 80-100 g of it at two separate days. To cut it short I think it is actually bad for me. Like other beans it also causes a lot of flatulence, which in a way causes a bump in POIS, but also accelerates POIS disappearance usually. In the past I had some positive experience with beans (especially bean soup), however soy bean seems to have a mixed effect instead. The bloodshot eyes and depression haven't changed. However the burning pain was certainly enhanced and at the second time I got up in the morning feeling especially weak.

Beta-sitosterol [400 mg of plant sterols per capsule including 200 mg beta-sitosterol; Rd: 2]: I only took one capsule that gave me a rather great headache which lasted throughout the day. Interestingly though I think it actually reduced POIS to a weak-moderate degree, however the testing circumstances were not ideal. Later I will try smaller doses to see if this is any better that way.

Rhaponticum Tribulus [500 mg Tribulus terrestris and 100 mg Rhaponticum carth. per capsule]: It was on sale so I bought a supplement that combines Tribulus and Ecdysteron. I haven't tested it much, but it certainly makes me feel better, so ecdysterone is really a good find.

Tea tree oil: I tested it some more, although without an O. However it certainly seems to have a beneficial effect as it considerably reduces the burning pain. I think it has a solid moderate effect and I will try to have an O with it to be able to judge it more accurately.

GABA [500 mg gamma-aminobutyric acid per capsule; Rd: 2]: So far I have only taken one at different times as it has some worrying side effects. Most importantly it didn't change depression. However it somewhat reduced the burning pain and had a good effect on stool quality.
A very peculiar side effect I experienced is that GABA can cause a sharp pain in the brain at a specific site. However this is nothing like any headache I have ever experienced before. I am not sure if I should be worried about this phenomena if I decided to take it in a greater dose or for a prolonged time.

Spirulina [One pill contains 300 mg spirulina algae powder, 0.45 mg beta carotine, 75 ug (daily intake reference: 9.38%) vitamin A provitamin; Rd: 1-8]: I took 9 pills (3x3) for two days, however there weren't any considerable effects. Although it definitely had a good effect on stool quality and the burning pain was somewhat reduced which means that it is a little effective at least.

Common centaury tea: I haven't tried this again, but I forgot to mention a side-effect I experienced.
There occurred a weak pulsating feeling on the top of the head. This was reminiscent to the feeling when I overdosed tryptophan, but it was much weaker and orthostatic intolerance was not present at all. I am really not sure if this could be considered some kind of cleaning effect or something bad tough.

Some additional trials:
Acai berry [75 mg acai berry extract per softgel capsules; Rd:2]: I took 3-4 per day. I think it has a weak mixed effect. It reduced the burning pain, however I almost constantly had weak-moderate degree bloodshot eyes while I used it. I will put this in the ineffective group due to this. By the way I often pass the (safer) ineffective supplements to my mom and she told me that after taking acai berry and green tea capsules in combination for a week her high blood pressure normalized and this made her happy. I don't know whether this is true, but it could be a good thing to test for those who have high blood pressure problem.

Shatavari powder (Asparagus) [Rd: 2 tsp]: First of all shatavari must be taken with milk. Whenever I drank it with water it greatly irritated my throat. However drinking it with milk greatly diminishes this side-effect. I tested shatavari by taking 2-3 tsp for some days and even had an O with it. I think it has a weak-moderate efficacy as it is good for my gut, but doesn't actually make a real difference. It is considered an adaptogen and is actually recommended to be taken with Ashwagandha for a greater effect. On the last day I did just that (3+3 teaspoon of Shatavari + Ashwagandha powder during the day) and it seems to have a solid moderate effect, although even Ashwagandha may have that if used alone, so the combination doesn't necessarily make them better.

Jasmine infused green tea [about 2 liters; made tea two times using a teabag containing 2 g of jasmine tea and drank it throughout the day]: At first I thought it works quite well, so I even had an O, but in the next morning my symptoms were quite average. Nevertheless jasmine tea was at least weakly beneficial considering how it reduced the burning pain. As jasmine tea is based on green tea I may still need to reevaluate green tea, although even if it has a benefit it is surely not considerable. It is also possible that jasmine infused black tea would work better, but I am not sure if I can obtain such.

Bitter gourd or melon (Momordica charantia) [500 mg per capsule standardized for 1.8 % charantin, it also contains 15 mcg chromium; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 splitting it equally during the day. The first time I took a bitter melon capsule it gave me 3 hours of moderate stomach/duodenum pain, however later it seemed to have some positive effect, so I didn't want to give up its trial. Its release from the capsule is probably too concentrated and results in local irritation. I decided to open up the capsules and mix them in water. This way it proved safe for consumption. I tested it vs. an O, but it was only partially effective. It manages to reduce the burning pain significantly, however it is not so good in symptom reduction itself (e.g. regular bloodshot eyes). It certainly helps with POIS recovery, so I would say it has about a moderate efficacy. It also induces more than average flatulence which could be a problem. Besides this my only real problem with bitter gourd is its price tag, which is not the best considering its effectiveness.

Lion's mane [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: Another medicinal mushroom that works really well. It is actually the main component of the medicinal mushroom mix I took earlier. I took 3 capsules in a day and couldn't experience any side-effects. It also had some anti-depressive effect. I even tested it with an O and it had a general positive effect, however this alone can't overcome everything, especially when I eat some POIS enhancing food. It is possibly better than Ganoderma especially if I evaluate the amount I took, but taking both may be even better if I consider my experiences with the medicinal mushroom mix.

Ganoderma lucidum - Reishi powder [Rd: 1-2 tsp]: I took 2-3 tsp per day. This is a really good thing as it makes a noticeable difference in symptoms. Ganoderma gave the distinct odor I experienced with beta-glucan and it actually contains some, however it also has some 5a-reductase inhibitor compounds (e.g. beta sitosterol) as well which could contribute to its overall effect. My subjective feeling is that its effect is comparable to Tribulus terrestris although the amount of powder could be considered a great amount. Reishi just generally makes me better, however it can't overcome everything and using even higher doses doesn't seem safe, although I had no particular side-effects so far. There were some points when it felt like Reishi reduced depression, but I still need to investigate this a bit further.

Branded medicinal mushroom mix: I rechecked the constituents and found that it contains lions's mane (350 mg), chaga (100 mg), ganoderma (30 mg), EGCG (5 mg) and apigenin (9 mg). I haven't tried chaga, but the other two mushrooms surely work and apigenin as well. EGCG (green tea) doesn't seem to work and I am actually a bit suspicious if it could have been the reason why this mix often induced chest inflammation. Nevertheless this medicinal mushroom mix combined with Maca, chamomile tea and some ginger had a very positive effect on POIS, so I have high hopes for a custom combination.

Tongkat Ali [100 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: Another testosterone booster that makes me noticeably better with some anti-depressive effect. The first time I took Tongkat Ali it caused a headache, however I used it on several other days as well and this hasn't happened again. I have yet to test it with an O, but I am quite sure that it belongs in the good or best category.

Pygeum [500 mg per capsule bark extract, Rd: 2]: I took two capsules for a few days in the acute phase and it certainly has a beneficial effect. It seems to have a weak-moderate effect on burning pain reduction, but it probably can't reduce depression. Pygeum is considered a potent 5a-reductase and aromatase inhibitor, so I believe others should check it as well.

Nutmeg powder: I expected something considerable of nutmeg, however it didn't prove so. I took 1/4-1/2 teaspoon twice per day. It somewhat reduced the burning pain, but symptoms were quite average. Bloodshot eyes may have been a bit worse, although I am not entirely sure in this. Nutmeg also gave a distinct sweetish odor to farts, which is not necessarily a good thing though. :)

Passionflower [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 4]: At most I took 6 in a day and also had an O. It can't prevent POIS onset as I still had bloodshot eyes. Muscle fatigue was also apparent the next day. It weakly reduces the burning pain and has a good effect on stool quality. Depression was not particularly strong however lately I haven't had a real problem with that anyway (probably the effect of summertime).

Tricolor Maca [650 mg per capsule containing yellow, red and black maca; Rd: 2]:  I took a few here and there and sometimes I would get severe bloodshot eyes. This is a bit disappointing, but also a rather surprising discovery. For now I suspect that either black or red maca could be actually detrimental as I have taken yellow maca for quite a while without problems. I also bought yellow maca powder which I had tried a few times without any ill effects. Needless to say this could be a major finding in the search for the root of POIS. In the future I will test tricolor maca some more and also buy some black or red maca if I can to check if such a difference really exists.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: berlin1984 on September 06, 2021, 12:53:44 PM

Awesome you trial so much stuff  :)

Note that some things need to accumulate in the body and don't have an instant effect.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on September 06, 2021, 02:04:33 PM

Quote from: berlin1984 on September 06, 2021, 12:53:44 PM

Awesome you trial so much stuff  :)

Note that some things need to accumulate in the body and don't have an instant effect.

It is true, however this may be still enough to find out parallelisms and the possible underlying mechanism. If we managed that we could use a more integrated approach in the curative effort. If I wanted to test everything for weeks it would take a lifetime to get anywhere. I believe that preliminary results also portend long-term effects. It is also really interesting that how some of the beneficial things (e.g. saffron, maca, alfalfa) had the most potent and noticeable effect when I first used them (day zero) and later their effect became attenuated. Even more intriguing is the fact that the same seems to be true for bad stuff as well. When I eat any bad food the symptoms usually intensify in only a few hours and can persist for about 1-2 days while it is in my body. Also when I first eat fresh walnuts or poppy seeds in the autumn they can hit me rather severely, but if I keep eating them for days the negative effects become attenuated as well. So the body compensates in both direction.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on October 04, 2021, 02:38:41 AM

Cascara sagrada bark (not cascara!) [450 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O with it. The burning pain was reduced to a weak or maybe weak to moderate level, however not to the degree I hoped for. Symptoms were possibly a bit reduced, but I couldn't see any significant change. A rather inconvenient side effect that cascara sagrada caused is that stools were rather loose and also rather smelly, not to mention farts. Well it may reflect some positive change in the microbiome, however other supplements worked much better without such a problem, so I don't think it is the best choice.

Creatine HCl [800 mg per capsule; Rd: 4]: I took 5-6 capsules daily and also had an O. I think it has a weak to moderate effect on burning pain reduction and symptoms were also not pronounced. At first I was a bit happy that it works so well, however the day after O I continued the supplementation and developed a regular painful lymphoid inflammation on the left side of the neck. I thought it was a coincidence, but I stopped the supplementation. A few days later when the inflammation passed I began to take creatine again, however this time I developed a lymphoid inflammation in the right breast where the pain radiated to the right armpit. So I stopped creatine again and it took the inflammation quite a few days to subside.  So even though creatine was good for POIS I am still not convinced whether it is safe to use. When I am prepared for some more pain I am going to test this again. Another possibility is that I used a too high dose, however studies indicate that in the loading phase one can take even higher amounts without any reported side-effects.

Garcinia cambogia extract (Garcinia gummi-gutta) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 2-4 capsules daily and had an O with it. Although at first I felt it could be something bad, later it turned out to be actually rather good. It had a moderate effect on the reduction of the burning pain and symptoms were also generally reduced a bit (e.g. only weak bloodshot eyes, weak depression). So on its own it is not particularly effective, however it may be a great addition to some combination. Although I have to note that certain combinations of Garcinia cambogia were found to cause liver toxicity, so one has to be careful. My personal opinion is that the effects of Garcinia cambogia are very similar to that of bitter melon as at first they both felt like something bad, however they actually turned out quite alright.

Fo-ti extract (Polygonum multiflorum) [500 mg per capsule which is equivalent to 5000 mg Fo-Ti]: I took 2-3 daily. I didn't have an O, however it has no considerable effect. It seemed to have reduced the burning pain weakly, however I think I had somewhat more intense bloodshot eyes than usual. Breast lymph nodes were also not reduced.
I also bought dried Fo-ti root separately and made a tea from it, however experiences were not much different as with the capsules. By the way Fo-Ti is indicated to turn hair very strong and so it may be still beneficial, however not for the type of POIS I have.

Bacopa monniera [200 mg leaf extract per capsule]: I took 3-6 per day. I only took it for a few days for now, but it doesn't seem to have a considerable effect. It might had a weak antidepressive effect a few hours after consumption, however I was not especially depressed anyway. However I was also weakly depressed at times, so its effect is certainly not considerable. There was a time when it felt like it warmed me, but this effect was also not consistent so I am not sure if it was only by chance. Bloodshot eyes were consistently weak, but also present. I also had a weak lymphoid inflammation at one day, but I don't think it was due to Bacopa, however it doesn't seem like it helps in this regard either.

Drotaverine (No-Spa) [40 mg per pill; Rd: 3-6]: I took 4-6 pills (160-240 mg) for a few days and it proved to have a considerable effect on POIS. Right on the first day I had an O an hour after taking the first two pills. POIS offset was not too bad, however my timing was possibly off as drotaverine seems to have a slower effect. I think it peaks about 7 hours after consumption as I felt rather well around that time. Drotaverine considerably reduces the burning pain, although I couldn't evaluate it precisely as I ate some bad food on almost all test days and then I simply ran out of pills. On the second morning after O I also experienced a marked reduction in photosensitivity. Its overall effect reminds me of alfalfa, however alfalfa still seems to be better. It is true though that on the last day I took 6 drotaverine pills along with 6 alfalfa pills and I still had POIS symptoms which shows that even the best things can't easily overcome this tenacious disease, but at least I felt considerably better.
So far I couldn't identify any side-effects, however it is possibly not a good idea to take such a high amount on a daily basis, but on days of O it can surely come in handy.
This of course makes the investigation of other PDE4 inhibitor (e.g. luteolin, kanna) worth-while.

Nutrisan RespiCalm [found in 22.5 ml: acacia honey - 13500mg, Grindelia (Grindelia robusta) flower extract - 1350mg, Round sundew (Drosera rotundifolia) aerial parts extract - 405mg, Silver Fir (Abies alba Mill) bud extract - 270mg, Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus Labill.) Leaf Extract - 270mg, Common elder (Sambucus nigra) flower extract - 270mg, Common thyme (Thymus vulgaris L.) leaf extract - 270mg, Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus Labill.) Leaf and Bark Extract - 270mg, Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus Labill.) essential oil - 2.7mg, Mountain pine (Pinus mugo) essential oil - 2.7mg; Rd: 7.5 mg]: This got me interested as it is marketed to be beneficial for breathing issues. I only felt this effect when I first took it, however I have no pronounced breathing problems anyway. I took 3 teaspoons every day (about 15 ml) and I couldn't experience any major side-effects, however it is probably not wise to exceed the recommendation for a longer time. I haven't had an O, but the burning pain reduced noticeably. Symptoms were not major, but still present. For now I would say that it has a moderate effect and certainly seems something good to try especially for those who really have breathing problems. The most active ingredient is likely Eucalyptus as tea tree oil is also beneficial, however the other constituents may contribute too.

Vitamin C-1000 with bioflavonoids [Per pill content: Vitamin-C 1000 mg, Citrus bioflavonoid 50 mg, Acerola 50 mg, rose hip 10 mg; Rd: 1]: I took 2 for a few days. On the second day I took one 8 hours before an O and then another one two hours later. This way POIS onset was surprisingly weak. My eyes were only weakly bloodshot and in the next morning symptoms were generally low grade. I still had noticeable muscle fatigue and rhinitis, but otherwise I felt relatively alright. The stool was relatively loose and only weakly burning. It also managed to ameliorate the effects of some bad foods (e.g. coffee) I ate during the trial. Its overall effectiveness looks to be on par with Ashwagandha, so a solid moderate effect is appropriate for this dosage. There was a time when I drank a lot of lemon juice as it had some good effect, but as I remember I developed some kidney problems, so I stopped drinking it altogether. I also took Vitamin-C pills here and there, but usually no more than a 500 mg pill as I was worried about possible kidney problems.

Artemizia [Ingredients in 5 ml: MCT oil - 4400 mg, artemisinin - 60 mg, vitamin E - 12 mg, chlorophyll - 1 mg, vitamin A - 800 ug, vitamin D - 5 ug; Rd: 1 teaspoon (5 ml)]: I took 1.5 teaspoon per day (3 x 0.5 tsp. - 7.5 ml). It has no noticeable rapid effect, but only a slow one. On the second day I had an O two hours after the second portion for that day. POIS onset was somewhat weaker than usual, but not considerably. In the next morning symptoms were somewhat lighter, but weakly bloodshot eyes and breast lymph nodes were still present. I also experienced a mild depression so it was nothing like saffron. The burning pain was still present, but noticeably reduced. I took one teaspoon in the morning as in the afternoon I had more than usual physical work, but exercise intolerance was rather usual with pronounced bloodshot eyes and a sore throat by the end of the work.
As for side-effects I am really not sure, but it may cause some circulatory issues. I don't usually measure my blood pressure only if something doesn't seem right. So my bp was somewhat lower than usual, but a longer trial would be necessary to clarify this issue. Given the components it is not clear if artemisinin was really the most active agent, but at least the product was beneficial in overall. I would judge the effectiveness as weak to moderate.

Yohimbe bark extract (Pausinystalia johimbe) [500 mg per capsule with 2 % standardized alkaloids content (~ 10 mg). It doesn't specify whether the alkaloid is actually yohimbine.; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2 for a few days, but I didn't have an O. It certainly has a positive effect, however its efficacy is rather poor. It managed to somewhat reduce gut problems, but other symptoms were almost as usual. This was especially apparent when on the third day I had more than usual work and exercise intolerance was  practically the usual with muscle pain/fatigue and bloodshot eyes that were only slightly better than usual. I couldn't experience an increase in libido which is rather low nowadays possibly due to too much work. There are also possible side-effects, although these were not very salient. At times I felt some transient heartaches and some cramping pain at other places, but they were not consistent and bearable. Of course given its low effectiveness and possible adverse effects I don't believe I will add this to a future treatment regime.

Some past experiences: I wanted to retest them before writing about their effects, however I just don't know when I am going to get around to have time for them.
- beta alanine: I took it for two month, but I don't think it was any effective.
- alpha lipoic acid (ALA): I took it for two month partially with beta-alanine and it was possibly weakly effective.
- milk thistle (sylimarin): I took it several years ago and I remember that I had some positive experiences with it. It possibly has a weak or moderate effect.
- coenzyme Q10: I took it a few years ago, but rather sparsely and some vague memory tells me that sometimes I had a noticeably positive experience with it while at other times it was not so useful. Based on recent findings I definitely need to recheck this one.

Some preliminary experiences:
- DHEA: It helped at least weakly, but muscle fatigue may have been worse.
- CBD oil: It helped weakly, but as I increased the dose I experienced nausea and the eyes were also unusually bloody.
- olive leaf extract: I tried this a few month ago by taking three capsules across the day and it certainly reduced the burning pain, however in the third morning the eyes were bloody veined (not bloodshot) and it scared me a bit so I stopped taking it. Maybe I should test it the way Going less Crazy suggested.
- ADEK vitamin: I tried this in the summer with double dose and while it certainly helped at least weakly the following day I sweated like crazy which was rather unusual even for a summer day.
- Allegra: Symptoms were either unchanged or somewhat even worse.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Muon on November 03, 2021, 09:06:55 AM

Quote from: Muon on November 03, 2021, 08:56:01 AM

Over-the-Counter Ocular Decongestants in the United States – Mechanisms of Action and Clinical Utility for Management of Ocular Redness (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7399465/)
Nasal congestion
Red eyes
Naphazoline eye drops for neurosomatic disorders/neural network disorders are being used but higher concentration like 0.1%, 1 drop in each eye.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on November 17, 2021, 07:57:33 AM

Astaxanthin [4 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took two pills per day and even had an O. Its effect is really great. There is no rapid antidepressive effect, however the reduction in the burning pain is considerable and can be felt in the reduction of other symptoms as well. It has a lesser effect than drotaverine or licorice, but I couldn't perceive any side-effects so far which makes it a really great addition to a stack. More specifically bloodshot eyes were moderately reduced, but I still had morning photophobia. It helped the most with exercise intolerance as even after exhaustive work I had greatly reduced eye problems and also hadn't developed any sore throat. Muscle pain was still present to some degree.
The only problem I see with the product is that it contains too much vitamin E, which makes me hesitant to take more than one each day.

Safflower oil (contains linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid and stearic acid) [Daily dose is 2 ml (1 coffeespoon) which contains 340 mg of MUFAs from which 340 mg is oleic acid and 1462 mg of PUFAs of which 1462 mg are omega-6 fatty acids]: I took 1.5 (3 x 0.5) teaspoon per day which is about 4-5 times the recommended daily dose. This turned out surprisingly good. The overall effect somehow reminded me to that of passionflower. It doesn't seem like it turns POIS any worse, so it is quite unlikely that linoleic acid would be detrimental. I had an O and while it can't prevent POIS onset the symptoms in the following days were generally weaker, so it helps with recovery. The stool was noticeably yellowish and looser, but the burning pain was still present somewhat. Generally it had about a moderate efficiency in POIS management.

Cold pressed linseed/flaxseed oil [In 10 g it has: 1 g of saturated fatty acids, 2 g of MUFAs and 7 g of PUFAs]: I consumed 3 teaspoons of linseed oil daily which is possibly about 10 grams. It was beneficial for the gut issues, but it had a weak efficiency. Safflower oil was definitely more useful.

Feverfew tincture [In 100 drops it contains the following: feverfew - 83.3 mg, peppermint – 55.5 mg, red raspberry leaves – 55.5 mg, Valeriana – 27.8 mg, lemonbalm – 27.8 mg, ginger – 27.8 mg; Rd: 45-100 drops]: I took 60-100 drops a day and also had an O. It certainly helped with POIS, but only weakly so as symptoms were not much better. The burning pain reduction was somewhat better. It also seemed to have some weak, but short-lived antidepressive effect. My overall estimation would be a weak to moderate efficacy.

Seven mushroom mix [one capsule contains 143 mg from each of the following: ganoderma, chaga, shiitake, maitake, lion's mane, Cordyceps militaris, Tremella fuciformis (snow fungus or snow ear); Rd:2]: I took 4 capsules per day and had an O. At first I was a bit disappointed as POIS onset was only slightly weaker. However it certainly helps with recovery as it is really good for the gut issues. By the second morning I felt much better and the morning photophobia was noticeably reduced. I still had some muscle pain though. Fortunately I had no signs of chest inflammation and the lymphatic nodules in the breasts were actually reduced in size, although they haven't disappeared completely. Its overall efficacy doesn't seem much better than lion's mane alone, but it is still a very good supplement.

Bio Siberian ginseng powder (Eleutherocus senticosus) [Rd: 2-3 g]: I took about 1.5 - 2 teaspoon a day which is about 6-8 g. It doesn't have any considerable effect or side-effect. I masturbated two times without an O and both times symptoms got worse so it couldn't even protect against partial POIS. It seemed to reduce the burning pain a bit, but even flaxseed oil was better in this regard. At least it seemed to help a bit with libido recovery what I consider a good thing.

Diosmin + Hesperidin [One pill contains: Diosmin: 400.5 mg, Hesperidin: 44.5 mg, grape vine leaf extract: 168 mg, grape seed extract: 158 mg, vitamin C: 80 mg; Rd: 1]: I took two daily and had an O. I think it can lighten POIS onset somewhat, but I may need to test it multiple times to verify this. It certainly has a positive effect on gut issues. In this regard it was close to medicinal mushrooms. Depression was so-so and bloodshot eyes were only slightly reduced and it couldn't protect against coffee or food potentiation. Lymphatic issues were quite unchanged or only slightly better. Although bloodshot eyes were close to average, the eye burning that usually occurs as night comes was noticeably reduced. I mention this as I also noticed a similar effect with grapeseed extract alone. However this supplement was better than grapeseed alone, so the other components must also have a beneficial effect. It also lightened morning photophobia a little bit, but the change was not considerable.

Resveratrol (Polygonum cuspidatum root extract) [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: This is another great find. I took 2 capsules daily and had an O. Resveratrol evidently has a considerable effect on my case. Most of my symptoms got better and especially my gut issues. I could move better, felt better, photophobia was noticeably reduced, breast lymph nodes became smaller, but still present. I still had some depression, but it had a really positive effect on my mood as I just generally felt well or normal, which is quite unusual. Resveratrol provided the least help with bloodshot eyes, but even this symptom seemed a bit better. It definitely has a place among my top supplements especially as it had no apparent side-effects so far.

Zembrin - kanna (Sceletium tortuosum aerial parts extract) [25 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took one capsule a day and also had an O. This one proved to be quite elusive. When I first took Zembrin it evidently induced bloodshot eyes and I also became really depressed. The burning feeling also felt somewhat enhanced however stool quality seemed better. Interestingly in the following days the initial reaction became much reduced and the positive effects became more dominant. I also had an O, but unfortunately I took one capsule of MACA that morning and even though POIS was light I am not sure of their individual contributions. Breast lymph nodes were quite unchanged and I was feeling rather average too while taking Zembrin, so my point is that it is neither too good, nor too bad and on the overall I can say that it is weakly beneficial in my case. I also realize that this is not the best supplement to prove any point about opioids due to its PDE4 inhibitory capability. So even though it is not the best supplement for me I can easily imagine that it could prove better for other POISers especially if they had problems with anxiety which is not an issue for me or at least not in a physiological manner.

Canola oil (Premium cold pressed oil without additives): I only tested it one day, by taking one teaspoon in the morning and one in the evening. I spread it on top of bread and ate it that way. I got a similarly bad reaction as I usually experience with eating walnuts. My symptoms were also quite bad in the following few days even though I tried to take several good supplements. I will need to test this at least one more time just to see if the same thing happens, although I have already suspected canola as I had problems with other products that list it as an ingredient. I also don't think the quality or manufacturing could be blamed for any effect as the product seems to be of fine quality.

Synephrine (Citrus aurantium extract) [10 mg per pill; Rd: 2]: I tested synephrine for a few days by taking 2 pills per day. At first it didn't seem so bad, but later I noticed that about 3-5 hours after consumption I would usually develop more pronounced bloodshot eyes. This was not severe though and usually resolved mostly in 1-2 hours. Stool quality seemed better, but the burning pain was unchanged or a bit worse. Breast lymph nodes were also unchanged. All in all synephrine possibly makes POIS a bit worse, however the overall effect is really weak so I don't believe that alpha adrenergic activity is at the core of my problems.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: berlin1984 on November 23, 2021, 04:44:58 PM

Quote from: Progecitor on November 17, 2021, 07:57:33 AM

Safflower oil (contains linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid and stearic acid) [Daily dose is 2 ml (1 coffeespoon) which contains 340 mg of MUFAs from which 340 mg is oleic acid and 1462 mg of PUFAs of which 1462 mg are omega-6 fatty acids]: I took 1.5 (3 x 0.5) teaspoon per day which is about 4-5 times the recommended daily dose. This turned out surprisingly good. The overall effect somehow reminded me to that of passionflower. It doesn't seem like it turns POIS any worse, so it is quite unlikely that linoleic acid would be detrimental. I had an O and while it can't prevent POIS onset the symptoms in the following days were generally weaker, so it helps with recovery. The stool was noticeably yellowish and looser, but the burning pain was still present somewhat. Generally it had about a moderate efficiency in POIS management.

What if Safflower oil (= mostly linoleic acid)
"elevates the endocannabinoids 2-AG and anandamide"
which helps you somehow?
Source: http://yelling-stop.blogspot.com/2021/11/does-linoleic-acid-induce-obesity.html "Essentially, we are eating a diet that is giving us the munchies, the effect that marijuana has on those that consume it."

This somehow relates to the thought that I'm self-medicating with Pizza (cheese casomorphin etc) on the day after orgasm (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3351.msg35179#msg35179).
Others had success with CBD.

But how would this interfact with your caipiscin like (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3704) theory?

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on January 19, 2022, 07:50:59 AM

L-Theanine [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. L-theanine seems to help in a lot of things, however it just doesn't do this very effectively. I still had bloodshot eyes, but it was reduced a bit. I still had depression, but it was reduced a bit. I still had gut issues, but it was reduced a bit. It also had a noticeable protective effect in regard of exercise intolerance, but it was not so good as astaxanthin. Enlarged lymphoid nodes were rather unchanged or only a bit better. I have tried to combine it with black tea, however experiences were only a bit better and I still had noticeable POIS symptoms. Nevertheless L-Theanine is a good candidate in a future stack.

Chinese skullcap (Scutellaria baicalensis root extract) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. Chinese skullcap is definitely beneficial, but it is still only one of the many supplements that help somewhat, but not to a great extent. I think it helped the most with my eye symptoms as they were quite alright even after the O, however it wasn't beneficial against exercise induced intolerance as I still developed severely burning bloodshot eyes when doing physical work. It was also of no use for depression. Gut issues were somewhat reduced, but not considerably. For now I would say that it has a weak-moderate effect. As it is another 5a-reductase inhibitor I could best compare it to Pygeum, which had about the same effectiveness.

Sodium butyrate [580 mg per capsule with 175 mg of butter acid; Rd: 2]: I took daily three capsules. I didn't have an O as I couldn't see the point. Sodium butyrate has about the same good and bad effects, although neither is too strong. The bad thing about it is that it clearly induces bloodshot eyes about 5-6 hours after ingestion. It felt like it had a mixed effect on gut issues, but at least from the third day stool quality was noticeably better, even so other symptoms remained rather general (baseline bad). Breast lymph nodes were also quite unchanged which indicates its ineffectiveness.

Inositol [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily three capsules, but I didn’t have an O. Similarly to others it had a somewhat positive effect on my eyes, however it didn't solve everything of course. Gut issues were a bit better, but depression was unchanged. I could say that it has an effectiveness of about weak-moderate, but in my opinion Chinese skullcap was still somewhat better even when I consider bloodshot eyes.

DHM - Dihydromyricetin (Ampelopsis grossedentata leaf extract) [220 mg per capsules; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. Unfortunately DHM didn't prove very useful.
It had a small benefit on bloodshot eyes, but it had a mixed effect on gut issues. I would have put DHM in the mixed category, but I was not feeling so bad even after the O and it helped somewhat with recovery, so in overall I could say that it has a small benefit at least. I still had rather average muscle fatigue, so either irisin is not induced or simply doesn't effect muscle fatigue that much.

Amla (Phyllanthus emblica) [bio, organic, raw powder; Rd: 5 g]: I took 3 smaller teaspoons per day. It had a minimal positive benefit on eyes and a small one on gut issues, so it was really not terrific, however amla had no adverse effects at least. It is also a constituent of Triphala, but probably not the most important one.

Triphala (Phyllanthus emblica, Terminalia bellirica, Terminalia chebula) [bio, organic, raw powder Rd: 2-5 g]: I took about half to one teaspoon three times a day and had an O. This one proved quite good especially for my eyes. It prevented bloodshot eyes from POIS and partially prevented it from exercise induced intolerance. I think its efficacy in this regard was better than that of Chinese skullcap, however astaxanthin was still better. Interestingly triphala not only negated the eye symptoms owing to coffee consumption, but also its mild laxative effect. I can't exactly say that I had constipation though. I think rhinitis was reduced a bit. Depression was weak, but could be felt. Morning photophobia could be felt, but was not especially bad.  I also can't say that triphala helped much with gut issues and it is the only reason I don’t give it a higher score. Nevertheless it may still work really well in some combination and it is rather inexpensive as an advantage.

L-Tyrosine [500 mg per capsules; Rd: 2]: I took two capsules, but I didn't have an O. Gut issues were possibly a bit better, however the eyes were as bloodshot as ever or maybe even more so. Other symptoms were quite average. I also had weak depression and mood was rather baseline. I had to stop taking it on the third day due to very bloodshot eyes. I don’t think I will test it any time soon again unless I find very convincing theoretical evidence that it should work on the long run. For now I will put this in the mixed category.

Milk thistle oil [100 % cold pressed; Rd: no value given, but probably around 1 teaspoon]: I consumed 3 teaspoons of oil daily and had an O. Milk thistle started out really good, but later it was not so effective, still it certainly has a merit. Even though I had an O it was not a clear test as the ejaculation was burning like capsaicin. The truth is that in the previous days I ate a lot of poppy seed and walnut cakes and they were still affecting POIS. Nevertheless milk thistle still helped noticeably. It even had an anti-depressive effect, although I also slept a bit worse. It reduced rhinitis, however it only had a lesser positive effect on bloodshot eyes and could not really compensate the effects of coffee. Gut issues were moderately better, but not considerably and muscle fatigue could be felt weakly even though I was not working. Breast lymph nodes were rather unchanged. Its overall effectiveness may be comparable to L-theanine, but it doesn't mean their effects were exactly alike.

Asafoetida [ground asafoetida (30 %) and fenugreek seeds]: I took 1/3 teaspoons a day and had an O. At first I though I was only testing asafoetida, but later I realized that it is actually a combination of asafoetida and fenugreek. I think it worked somewhat better than fenugreek alone, but its effectiveness was not terrific. Gut issues were noticeably and bloodshot eyes were minimally better. Otherwise other symptoms were rather average, but certainly not out of hand.
I could also experience the aphrodisiac effect mentioned for Asafoetida and could last more during masturbation. A possibly worrisome side-effect though was that sometimes I felt a sudden cramp in my heart especially shortly after consumption even though asafoetida is supposedly safe up to 15 grams a day. I think in a smaller amount it could be still used well in a prepack, but I don't think it should be used regularly or for recovery. Its effectiveness could be weak-to-moderate.

Red maca [bio, raw, gluten free, organic powder; Rd: 5-10 g]: I took 3 teaspoon scoops a day, but I did not have an O. It was disappointingly ineffective. Still it helped with gut issues to a moderate-good degree. I couldn't experience any effect on depression. I think it also induced bloodshot eyes to a small degree after about 1-2 hours of consumption, but later it seemed like red maca helped a bit. Nevertheless this effect was not significant either way. So red maca was not particularly effective, but as a comparison I would still rather take this than sodium butyrate at least if I didn't know better. The overall effectiveness is weak-to-moderate.

Yellow maca [bio, raw, organic powder; Rd:1-3 teaspoon daily]: I took 3 teaspoons daily on POIS days. It definitely had a better effect than red maca powder. Unfortunately it didn't have a pronounced antidepressive effect, although I wasn't particularly depressed while I took it and I felt rather well actually. It certainly had a definite positive effect on my eyes. I can't say this effect was almighty, but still considerable. When I ate something bad the eyes still became bloodshot and it could only partially handle exercise induced intolerance. Gut issues were also considerably better. The only side-effect that may have been due to maca is that on the first day I had a rare nasal congestion, but on the following days this didn’t occur. Breast lymph nodes were also relatively unchanged which means that even though I was noticeably better, POIS was still lingering in my body ready to strike.

Black maca (maca negra) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took daily 5 capsules (2+2+1), but I didn't have an O. Unfortunately black maca also doesn't seem to have the power of yellow maca. This doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial, but certainly not to a considerable extent. I still had bloodshot eyes in general and sometimes it looked like black maca actually helped somewhat in this regard, but at other times the eyes remained consistently average, so this effect was not significant. Black maca also helped somewhat with gut issues, but only about as much as red maca. Of course it had no effect on depression which remained rather baseline. I couldn't note anything else out of the ordinary which means it is probably safe to use, but I don't see any point preferring this variety over yellow maca.

Damiana (Turnera diffusa) [4:1 dried leaf extract with 460 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily without an O. Damiana was really good for the eyes as they were much clearer than usual. When doing physical work I still had bloodshot eyes, but by the time I was going home it was only weakly bloodshot, so it partially protects against exercise induced intolerance. It also seems important that its effectiveness peaks around 6 hours after intake, so any benefit is most pronounced at this time and not right away. Damiana also proved to be quite good for the gut issues, although not as much as medicinal mushrooms of course. It did not have a distinct anti-depressive effect, though I was not really depressed generally and sometimes it felt like depression faded in-and-out as a small fluctuation. Breast lymph nodes were also quite unchanged. I can't say much about the aphrodisiac effect without an O, but it felt like the dick was a bit desensitized, which usually results in an increased endurance in my case.
Its overall efficacy seems very similar to that of yellow maca powder, though it may be less safe to use in the long run. Particularly there is a possible side-effect as on the third day after the third capsule I developed some lower leg pain, though I am not sure if it was due to Damiana or the fatigue of the muscles due to all the physical work I currently do. In the first place the only reason I dared to take such a high dose is that a fibromyalgic patient supposedly used the double of this amount for years to successfully treat his/her condition. This of course further reinforces the parallelism of the two conditions.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientreview-703-damiana?conditionid=&sortval=1&pagenumber=2

Yellow maca capsules (retest of the original one) [6:1 extract with 600 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 4-6 capsules a day (2+1-2+2). I currently can't afford an O due to work, but I wanted to compare its effectiveness to the other maca products, so I only took this for a few days. I can say that it still works really well and better than all the other maca products I have tried so far. I have to emphasize that it doesn't treat POIS perfectly, but still results in a noticeable improvement even on its own. The eye issues were much better. The gut issues were also much better. Most importantly I can still feel as the anti-depressive effect hits me and my eyes and mind suddenly become clear though only for a short time before depression re-emerges. Fortunately later the anti-depressive effect usually returns again, although less distinctly, but still with a good duration. When I am working I don't usually notice this quite well, but nevertheless the effect is quite notable in comparison to my usual zombified state.
The unusual effectiveness of this product may be due to the fact of it being an extract. This also means if someone had no luck with a particular maca product they may still have some with another one.

Diosgenin (wild yam root extract) [190 mg per capsule with 30 mg diosgenin saponins; Rd: 1-2]: This is also a wild yam product, but with a standardized diosgenin content. It is marketed as a testosterone and estrogen stimulator. I took 5 capsules a day (2+2+1) (which equals to about 950 mg extract with 150 mg diosgenin) and also had an O. It certainly has a beneficial effect that is somewhat comparable to that of yellow maca capsules, although it wasn't as potent as the original wild yam root capsules I had tried first. Its effect on the eyes was noticeably good, but I could still experience weakly bloodshot eyes. Put against exercise intolerance it was only partially protective as I could still develop bloodshot eyes, however they regenerated faster than usual when I could rest. I couldn't experience a distinct anti-depressive effect like with yellow maca capsules, however depression was quite low and I could think relatively well. Gut issues were also better, but again not as much as with yellow maca capsules. Morning photophobia was unusually low the second day after O which also indicates a potential benefit. As I remember the other wild yam reduced the breast lymph nodes a little even if I developed a chest pain, however I couldn't feel a big change with this one. Its effect was also not so rapid to develop, I think it peaked about 3-6 hours after intake. Most importantly I experienced no particular adverse side-effects for the few days I took it, so at least it seems rather safe compared to the other wild yam root supplement.

Wuweizi (Schisandra Chinensis) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules and had an O. It had no major effect on POIS, but it was certainly beneficial. Bloodshot eyes were only slightly better than average, so it was not really good for this symptom. Wuweizi also had a moderate benefit on gut issues. I was feeling relatively well (for acute POIS) on the first morning after O as I had no particular photophobia or depression. Unfortunately the same day unexpectedly I had to work way more than usual and this lead me to develop a usual and very uncomfortable acute chest inflammation due to exercise intolerance. Of course this also forced me to change treatment. This was also the first day when covid-19 (omicron) symptoms occured and the chest inflammation later turned into an average pulmonitis, so Schisandra was really not faulty in this case.
One other interesting detail could be when I was masturbating somehow I felt more potent. As Schisandra is known to potentiate the effects of sildenafil (Viagra) I can only guess that this have been somehow related to that. Nevertheless based on the short time I tested it I can only give it a weak score. Even so it may be useful on the long run as it has a potent hepatoprotective effect.

I can also provide some preliminary reports:
At one time I tried a moderate amount of choline drops (choline-chloride) and this deteriorated my symptoms. I also ate some liver (choline-rich) the same day which was not the best idea. I certainly developed bloodshot eyes due to choline and the next day I felt rather awful and also developed a headache reminiscent of my early POIS years. I think this could be what others call the balloon-like headache as it felt like the outer edge of the brain was in pain and could feel the outline in the skull. It was an unpleasant experience and it took me a few days to get better with good supplements. Of course this still needs to be verified once more for good measure, but I will have to be really well to undergo such a likely torture again.

I also tried inosine, but I don't think it did anything particular. However as a possible side effect I think it can disturb sleeping as I awoke several times during the nights of the two consecutive days I took it. I  still have to test it a little more though to decide if it is really true and to ascertain its efficacy on POIS. I think it is important to emphasize that it did nothing bad even though being a possible mast cell activator.

I did a little update in the diet list as well (shown in red).

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on February 22, 2022, 01:56:44 PM

Mumps may be another reason why I had developed POIS. One of the complications of mumps is orchitis (testes inflammation). Although orchitis is unusual for prepubertal males, but it may occur. Mumps orchitis is also often accompanied by epididymitis which is the inflammation of the epididymis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps

Unfortunately I can't remember practically anything about how this happened exactly, but it can't be excluded that orchitis may have occurred. If it was so then excessive or prolonged inflammation could have caused hypermethylation of genes in some genital tissues which would later result in primary onset of POIS even though being an acquired epigenetic alteration.

The results suggest that cytokines including TNF-a and transcriptional factors such as NF-kB (p65) contribute to silencing of SRD5A2 by regulating DNMT1 activity.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4061.0

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 24, 2022, 01:06:22 PM

Indole-3-carbinol (Brassicales) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily and had an O. This certainly helps, though at first it didn’t seem that effective, however after I had the O, only a very light POIS developed. Practically I had no bloodshot eyes and other symptoms were also reduced. I think indole-3-carbinol works better in POIS prevention, rather than ameliorate already existing symptoms. I am not exactly sure based on one O, but semen volume also seemed to have been reduced somewhat, though I had no problem with endurance. Considering everything I can give it a moderate rating. What pharmacologically seems relevant is indole-3-carbinol’s ability to antagonize AR and to preferentially activate ERB by possibly antagonizing ERa and reducing excessive estrogen effects. By the way it also inhibits DNMT, thus decreasing methylation. Its pharmacology is very similar to diindolylmethane (DIM) that I am going to test as well.

Spermidine [600 mg wheat-germ with 0.252 mg spermidine per capsule; Rd: 4 (1 mg spermidine)]: I took 4 capsules daily, but didn’t have an O. Spermidine has a positive effect, however its overall effectiveness is not too great. It helped moderately with gut issues, but other symptoms were rather average. I noticed an often rumbling belly, but flatulence was not especially increased. Eye symptoms were also minimally better. More specifically the leakiness of the veins seemed to have been reduced, but the little blood veins were even more pronounced. It was something similar to L-theanine, however the white of the eye was noticeably clearer with that. I can only give it a weak score for now.

Green barley powder [Rd: 1-2 teaspoons]: I took 3 teaspoons of powder a day and had two Os. At the first O I had a burning ejaculation which is rather uncommon. However symptoms were better than average afterwards. It could help with both eye and gut issues, however the experience seemed rather inconsistent. On the last day I took it with L-theanine (3x1) and had another O. Again I had a burning ejaculation which is usually not a good sign. POIS was not too bad though. The combination still helped with the eye symptoms, however other symptoms occurred normally. The next day the combination was somewhat less effective against exercise induced intolerance. The combination probably adds some to the overall effect, however the other O was probably too soon and POIS was more severe due to it.
One particular side-effect that I noticed was an unusual tension in the head that occurred with or without L-theanine. It was not an outright head-ache, but it made me a little worried. The dose was probably a bit high, but green barley powder is considered rather safe, so I was not too worried about overdosing. As tryptophan is abundant in barley grass powder it may explain both my positive and negative experiences with it, although it had no such anti-depressive effect as I experience with L-tryptophan otherwise. Barley grass powder has a better overall effect than wheat grass powder, however its side effects make me question if it is really worth taking at all. It has a weak-moderate effect on POIS nonetheless.

Magnolia bark (Magnolia officinalis) [400 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules a day and had an O. At first it seemed like it doesn’t really work that well. I still had bloodshot eyes and about average symptoms. At least gut issues were moderately reduced. I had the O on the third day and I think that was when it started to work a bit better as I did not develop particularly bloodshot eyes. The next morning was rather average, however by the end of work I had quite clear eyes which would be very unusual on a first day. I still had a weaker depression and I couldn’t notice a particular anti-depressive effect. The positive effect is most probably due to honokiol which can be also found in Magnolia bark. I think the strength of honokiol is not its outright effect, but that it may be able to do some permanent change which may be not true even for supplements that work better. Its acute benefit is at least somewhere between passionflower and bitter melon.

Quercetin+Rhodiola rosea+galangal combo [500 mg quercetin per pill; Rd: 2-3, 400 mg of Rhodiola rosea per capsule (12 mg rosavine, 4 mg salidroside); Rd: 1, galangal is rich in kaempferol]: I took them for a few days and had an O. Dosage used: 2 x quercetin (morning, evening) + 2 x Rhodiola (morning, noon) + galangal: half teaspoon x 3 times a day in warm water. I did a one day trial with each of them before, but couldn’t see much of a difference, so I thought I would try to combine them and see if they are any good. I came to the conclusion that while this combination certainly has some positive effect, yet its overall efficacy is rather low. Depression was light, but still there. Before O it seemed like it moderately reduced gut issues and minimally reduced bloodshot eyes, but this did not make a significant improvement in POIS feel. It was something similar after O, as POIS was only a little better than average and the combo only really prevented symptom escalation, but not their appearance. It may be interesting to note that while I masturbated I had a reduced desire and it was more difficult than usual to maintain an erection, however I had a normal endurance and average (non-burning) semen quantity. The reduced libido would have to be confirmed with consecutive Os, but I don’t have time for this as I want to reduce my POIS primarily and not my libido. The combination of quercetin and kaempferol is unlikely to be the sole reason for the effectiveness of some herbal tea, but it also doesn’t mean they would be of no use. I had more success with Triphala which also contains luteolin besides quercetin and kaempferol, so synergies probably count. As a final word I can only give this particular combination a weak score as even Chinese skullcap alone seemed better.

Ceylon cinnamon: I took half a teaspoon mixed in warm water or milk 2-3 times a day. I did not have an O, but when I masturbated I still developed quite bloodshot eyes. It was possibly a bit better than cassia cinnamon as at least it did not seem to induce POIS like that. I think both had actually mixed effects or caused some shift in POIS, but while cassia is mostly bad, the Ceylon variety has at least a minimal positive effect. Nevertheless it is not something I plan to add to my treatment, but at least it may serve as a safer spice if I decide to eat something with cinnamon. I think Ceylon cinnamon also increased my potency as a benefit, however as a side-effect it could also induce some pain here and there from time to time.

Noni fruit (Morinda citrifolia) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 3 capsules a day and had an O. Noni is certainly beneficial, however its efficacy is not very great. It certainly has a positive effect on eyes, however Chinese skullcap was better in this regard. It also had a moderate positive effect on gut issues. However I also developed a weak headache a few times which could have been due to noni. A few times I also had a short tinnitus in the otherwise silent right ear which was like a zipp-zipp sound. I could put noni in the weak-moderate category, however it is certainly not the best amongst the others from the same strength group. At least noni is thought to be able to bring about long term changes, which makes it worthy of consideration.

Wheat grass powder [Rd: 1-2 tsp]: I took 3 teaspoons a day and had an O. At first it seemed like it worked better, but testing it further made me realize that it only has a weak efficacy. It couldn’t do much about bloodshot eyes. Gut issues were also changed, but I would say that it only has a weak benefit in this area. At least it did not have any such side-effects as barley grass powder. I think this also contains some amount of spermidine, but I still don’t think it helps much and I am not sure if it is the beneficial compound in it. It is also a good source of alpha and beta tocotrienol if someone wanted to test those.

Satureja tea (Satureja hortensis): It gave me heavy bloodshot eyes a few hours after consuming two cups of tea. This symptom did not resolve easily, so I had to stop testing it. I think it is just not good for me. Carvacrol seems a likely culprit. Rosmarinic acid is also abundant in it, however I had no problems with other teas that contain it, while teas with carvacrol have been already suspicious.

Green cardamom: I ate 3x3 pack of seeds (pieces) a day. I masturbated, but did not have an O. I think it has a minimal protective effect on the eyes and a moderate one on gut issues. I couldn’t notice any side-effects and it also gives one a fresh breath as a benefit. While it is not too beneficial for POIS, it could be a good idea to take it regularly. It may be the second most expensive spice, but it is still cheaper than most dietary supplements. Cardamom is also another source of quercetin, but probably other beneficial compounds can be found in it.

Tree tea oil + lavender tea: The recommended dose for tree tea oil is 1-2 drops internally, but I consumed 7 drops (3+2+2) in a day and also drank 4 cups of lavender tea made from one tablespoon of  herb. Lavender surely has some anti-depressive action, although it was not so strong this time. On the next morning came an unpleasant surprise when I fell to the kitchen floor in the morning and could hardly get up. It turned out my blood pressure was somewhat low (97/68 P:50). I could hardly go to work, so I had to stop this test. Tree tea oil is the most likely culprit so anyone who decides to try it internally should keep to the recommended dosage. The overall effect on my symptoms was not so good, but I also ate something bad, so it was not a clear test. Actually I mostly wanted to know how the combination would affect breast lymph nodes. On the morning when I fell it was rather average, so one day is probably too little to evaluate this.

Alfalfa powder (+ lavender tea): I thought to retest alfalfa with another product. I took half a teaspoon of alfalfa powder three times a day. I had an O and had somewhat more symptoms than the previous time, however the next day during work it partially prevented exercise induced intolerance and by the end of work the eyes were quite clear. Unfortunately muscle fatigue still got worse as I worked and it was difficult to stand by the end of it. My libido recovered quite quickly so I decided to have another O the same day also drinking lavender tea alongside alfalfa powder. Results were somewhat worse than the previous time, but I expected such from consecutive Os, however I wanted to  check the recovery by taking the combination for at least two more days. Unfortunately this didn’t work out as by the next morning I developed a moderate ass muscle inflammation, which was strong enough to affect my movement, so I had to stop again. Breast lymph nodes were rather average this time, however the neck lymph nodes seemed really reduced, although I don’t frequently check this. Eyes were not so good as the previous day, but still better than without treatment. Alfalfa actually helps the most with gut issues, even if it is not perfect. Alfalfa doesn’t seem to have a direct anti-depressive effect, so lavender looked like a good choice for the combination, however this proved relatively weak this time. Actually I drank lavender tea both times when I was infected by covid-19 and the anti-depressive effect was quite good on those occasions, but I also drank saffron tea on those days, so it could have been a combined anti-depressive effect.
I had a weaker ass muscle inflammation without lavender the previous day, but I didn’t give it much consideration then. I have already noticed the intensification of this symptom with other supplements, but not very consistently. So far zinc induced this the most. Although at the moment I can’t really guess the connection between zinc and alfalfa in this regard. Thus alfalfa has a relatively good effect acutely against POIS, however side-effects may prevent its prolonged use.

Black cumin (Nigella sativa) [370 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 3 capsules a day. The first time I tried to take it the next day I developed a quite serious hordeolum on the lower eyelid that took several days to disappear. On the next occasion fortunately this didn’t happen, so I took it for a few days then. I didn’t have an O as black cumin doesn’t seem to be any good in reducing bloodshot eyes. Sometimes I was wondering if it actually induced it, but then came to the conclusion that it is simply ineffective in this regard. Fortunately at least it had a positive effect on gut issues to a moderate-good degree. Other symptoms were rather average and thus I can only give it a weak-moderate score in efficacy. At one evening before going to sleep I think I saw the beginnings of a hordeolum again, but it disappeared by morning. So I might be paranoid about this, but its good to keep in mind that such a side-effect may appear. Interestingly its most emphasized compound is thymoquinone which is a carvacrol derivative, that makes me wonder if carvacrol is not so bad after all.

Coenzyme Q10 Forte [60 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: I took 3 pills per day. Coenzyme Q10 is certainly beneficial, but only in an average manner. It had the most effect on gut issues as it had a moderate-good effect in that regard. It also had a weak positive effect on eye issues, but this was only apparent when the POIS force was not strong. I think I also felt a little better at times, but otherwise everything was rather average. Taking everything into account it has moderate efficacy. I also couldn’t note any side-effects, while taking it. At one time I also took it with niacinamide and they handled bloodshot eyes relatively well during work, although it took about 3-4 hours for this protective effect to develop.

Bakuchi (Psoralea corylifolia) [extract 10:1]: It is not really recommended for internal use due to possible liver toxicity. I took half a teaspoon mixed in water 2-3 times a day. I actually tried it last year and on the first occasion as I remember I had a negative experience with it, but it may have been due to something that I ate at the same time. Sometime later I tried it again, but it did nothing much then. Unfortunately I can’t find my notes about the specifics. This time I took it for three days and had an O on the first day. It doesn’t seem like it makes POIS any worse, but actually helps a little. It helped my gut issues to a weak-moderate degree, which is not much of course. I am not all too sure about eye issues as it doesn’t seem to have any great effect. It possibly had a weak mixed effect in this regard, but nothing too considerable. On the third day I developed a headache, but skipped the painkillers. Later I had an O, which resulted in a relatively light POIS. I think my mistake was that I also ate quite a big amount of black radish the same day and most of the benefit was probably due to that actually. The headache was probably caused by bakuchi though. I masturbated many times with a similar headache in the past and it may be interesting to mention that in the more intense moments this kind of headache also gets worse temporary. This may be related to blood pressure, but when measured it is usually alright even at such times. I also took some bakuchi before going to sleep and the headache persisted, although weaker, until morning, so I had to take a painkiller (a half pill of Algopyrin), which resolved it in an hour. Altogether it has a weak benefit with head-ache as a possible side-effect.
Two notable compounds in bakuchi are neobaisoflavone and bakuchiol. Neobaisoflavone has a capability of FAAH inhibition. Bakuchiol is the more important though. Interestingly its structure resembles that of resveratrol and retinol. Bakuchiol has antiandrogenic property. It also has an estrogenic effect although it is not clear how so as some study claims that is preferentially activates ERB, while another claims that it has a higher affinity for ERa, although this also seems dose dependent.

Muira Puama (Ptychopetalum olacoides) [10:1 root extract with 250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily two capsules and had an O. I think it had a quite good effect on gut issues and a weaker positive effect on eye symptoms. I had an O on the third day that was followed by a lighter than usual POIS. From the first day side-effects also occurred. There were occasional weak cramps in the heart and interestingly in the groin. The heart cramps were not so strong as what I had experienced with Asafoetida though. Actually I think Asafoetida had a better effect on improving erection, although it was never really a problem for me. It also did not seem to increase endurance as well as Maca did. If anything the penis felt more sensitized, even so I managed to last to a normal duration. Semen volume may have been a bit more than usual and it did not have a burning quality. Interestingly right after the O I felt somehow differently than usual. I can’t exactly put it into words, but I think I could breathe easier and felt more oxygenated even though breathing is not a problem for me. Actually a weaker chest inflammation also occurred later as it happens many times, but this disappeared by the following morning. On the fourth day I also took some ginger powder (3 x half teaspoon) alongside Muira Puama, not at the same time though. The only difference I felt though was the lack of cramps, although it is not clear whether this was due to ginger or because of the O. Taken all together Muira Puama may have a similar efficacy as Ashwagandha, so I can give it a moderate-good rating for now.
Interestingly the benefit of Muira Puama is supposedly due to an increase in iNOS, that makes it similar to ginger. However increasing iNOS seems to increase inflammation and fibrosis. Also most other supplements that benefited me actually decrease iNOS, so it is not clear how much role it has in POIS.
It is said that Muira Puama can be taken rather safely up to 500-1050 mg daily and only side-effects prevented me from increasing the dosage. A guy supposedly took it for 20 years, so it can’t be that dangerous: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientreview-574-muira-puama?drugid=574&drugname=MUIRA-PUAMA

Juniper berries [dried]: I took 10-12 pieces a day divided for 3 times. Unfortunately I developed a chest inflammation while taking it even though my POIS was compensated at the time. I also ate some stuffed (sweet) cabbage at the time that can definitely cause some shift in POIS, but I don’t think on its own could justify the development of chest inflammation. Nevertheless I continued taking juniper berries and the chest inflammation still attenuated, so it doesn’t seem outright detrimental. Juniper berries seemed to help with gut issues, but just not the right way. I mean the stool definitely had a better consistency and it was also more yellowish, but it retained its burning quality. I suspect this is something similar with my earlier experience with the mixed mushroom complex, that helped me a real lot with POIS, but made me really prone to developing painful chest inflammations. Actually I think I had a similar experience with Dicetel pills as well, that could help with stool consistency and gut motility, but would do nothing much about the burning pain that is the major indicator of my POIS. Aside from this juniper berries also helped a little with eye symptoms, but this only means that the symptom fluctuated on a lower level than usual.

Mangosteen powder (Garcinia mangostana) [Rd: 1 teaspoon]: I took 1/3 teaspoon three times a day (1 teaspoon/day) mixed in warm water and had an O. This proved to be quite effective. It was most beneficial for the eyes. It couldn’t completely prevent eye symptoms, but certainly had a good effect. The day after O I had more than usual work and the eyes remained relatively well, which means that it is quite effective for exercise induced intolerance. The same can’t be said about muscle fatigue, but it is no big surprise as it only reduced the burning pain to a weak-moderate degree. It did not have a direct anti-depressive action, but I was a little less depressed than usual. I also could not note any particular side-effects. Its effectiveness on eyes is probably between that of Chinese skullcap and Triphala. I can’t say that it works exactly like Garcinia cambogia, but its efficacy seems to be around the same level.
Mangosteen is also an ERB agonist which could explain why it is beneficial. Surprisingly mangosteen is also a known histone acetylase inhibitor, which may be not good for me, though it should make it something similar to curcumin. Furthermore mangosteen is an aromatase inhibitor which could contribute to its effect.

Relora (Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense bark extract) [300 mg per capsules; Rd: 2-3]: I took 3 capsules a day and had an O. It is certainly beneficial, however it is just not great. Relora helps with eye symptoms, however mangosteen seemed better in this regard. Contrary to this Relora was better for gut issues than mangosteen. I couldn’t see much difference in effectiveness compared to plain Magnolia which was also cheaper by the way.

Eyebright, eyewort tea: I drank eyebright tea on a few separate occasions. Each time the amount I drank was about 4 cups (1.2 liter) made from one tablespoon of the herb. It can evidently help with eye symptoms, but only when the force of POIS is not too great. I also tried to apply it externally by washing the eyes with it, but couldn’t see any immediate change. It is also a little good for gut issues. I think sometimes I even experienced a mild anti-depressive effect, however it showed a great variance in occurrence, so I am not sure if this was really due to eyebright. One side-effect when I drink a greater amount at once is an unpleasant head tension. This was very similar to what I experienced with green barley powder, however it wasn’t that strong at least.

Catuaba bark (Trichilia catigua) [465 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took daily two and had two Os. I didn’t know what to expect from this, but it turned out better than expected. I had two Os on consecutive days, but it still managed to reduce POIS. It was really good for gut issues. It also helped with eye symptoms really well. The day after the first O I had exhaustive work and thus exercise induced intolerance complicated POIS. I took one Catuaba capsule in the morning and like with mangosteen at the beginning of work I developed bloodshot eyes, however by the end of it they were really clear. Unfortunately muscle fatigue was quite usual (bad) as it is not an easy symptom to deal with. Its overall efficacy is really good though and might be comparable to damiana, although I didn’t have an O with that. Interestingly I couldn’t notice any aphrodisiac effect during masturbation. I had two Os, but that was a voluntary choice and not desire driven. The penis neither felt sensitized (like with Muira Puama) or desensitized (like with maca). Regardless the aphrodisiac effect of Catuaba may be due to yohimbine. This is also perplexing considering I hardly had any benefit with the other Yohimbe product which should be abundant in it. Later I will definitely try to combine Catuaba with other aphrodisiacs like damiana and maca to see if it gets me even better and to see how they change sexual activities. I also thought about increasing the dosage as I didn’t experience any particular side-effects for now, but it is not recommended to take more than daily 1000 mg so I reconsidered.

Aurobin ointment [prednisolone caproate, lidocaine hydrochloride, dexpanthenol]: I used it sometimes in the past. It has to be applied around the anus. It could definitely reduce the burning pain on the outside and somewhat also decreased the inflammation in the general area, however it couldn’t do much about systemic symptoms as they originate from the guts. There was also a time when I tried to treat the current ass muscle inflammation with the ointment, however it seemed like it actually made the symptom even worse and that was the last I used it.

Forskolin (Coleus forskohlii) [In one capsule it has 250 mg Coleus forskohlii extract with 25 mg forskolin and also 100 ug chromium as chromium picolinate; Rd: 1]: I tested this a few month ago, but I have no time to test it more accurately. I took 3 capsules a day, but I did not have an O. I took it for 3 days and could hardly see any change at all. It certainly doesn’t do anything bad at least. On the fourth day I started testing something else and had an O. Interestingly POIS symptoms were quite light, however later the other supplement didn’t prove to be that useful so I wonder if forskolin had anything to do with it. I wanted to test forskolin again before reporting about it, but I can’t see when I am going to be able to. Another thing to consider about this supplement is chromium as only one capsule exceeds the daily intake, but at least this means that chromium is not detrimental.

Fish oil capsules: I tried to take fish oil capsules several times in the past, but whenever I did a heart pain always developed in a few days even if I took only one capsule. I wanted to take it as it is supposed to be good for memory and I actually experienced this benefit, however its serious side-effect made me unable to use it. There was one notable occasion when I was doing more than usual physical work and I had already had a heart pain in the morning. I still took another fish oil capsule, however during work the pain further increased. I had to do my job and the whole day I felt like dying. The pain was especially bad whenever I leant forward. That was when I decided to never take fish oil capsules ever again. I don’t think I had other problems with it, but for me it is simply intolerable.

I did a little update on the diet list as well (shown in blue).
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40400#msg40400

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on May 20, 2022, 10:33:03 AM

Aronia berries and powder [Rd: 1 tablespoon at most]: At first I took aronia berries by consuming half a tablespoon of berries 3 times a day (about 25 pieces altogether). They certainly have some positive effect on gut issues and I think it also helps with eye symptoms a little. I couldn’t figure much more, however as a side-effect it could induce a weak headache, discomfort. Afterwards I took 1 teaspoon of aronia powder 3 times a day. I could not experience the previous side-effect, however its effect was also reduced compared to the berries. For now I can only give aronia a weak score. As aronia berries are the best source for anthocyanins eating a few daily is probably a good idea, but higher doses should be avoided.

Glycine [powder]: I took one teaspoon of glycine 3 times a day mixed in either water or coffee. I had an O and it helped with POIS symptoms. It had a weak to moderate positive effect on gut issues and I think it also helped with bloodshot eyes a little. Its efficacy was not so great though. I could say that it was weak to moderate on overall. I also had some side-effects. In the beginning some vascular cramps occurred, but later this was not so apparent. I also developed a weaker chest inflammation after O and my impression is that this could be something similar that I had experienced with creatine, although to a lesser extent. Masturbation was also somewhat painful as I had a concurrent prepuce inflammation (red skin and some pain). Very rarely I had something similar in the past, but I will need to retest glycine later to see if this was only a coincidence or if there is some causality and the same is true for chest inflammation.

Resveratrol + inulin (Vitis vininfera L + chicory root) [One capsule contains 500 mg grape skin extract of which 50 mg is resveratrol, 240 mg inulin and 10 mg is L-leucine; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules and had an O. At first I was a bit worried about inulin, as I have a bad reaction to chicory coffee and some members also had bad reactions to inulin supplementation. However it turned out that it is unlikely that inulin is bad for me. This combination had a lesser effect on symptoms than the pure high dose resveratrol. I also couldn’t feel the distinct anti-photophobic effect with only this amount. Nevertheless most symptoms were better. The formula had a moderate positive effect on eyes and also a moderate one on gut issues. It also had some anti-depressive effect and I could experience the relaxed feeling, although to a lesser extent than with Polygonum cuspidatum. I also had some good sleep while I took it. Muscle fatigue was also less apparent during work even on the first day after O. I am not sure about the individual contribution of inulin, but it probably has at least a little positive effect. The only side-effect I could notice is the same as with the other resveratrol product, namely the intensification of the usual tinnitus in the left ear. I checked blood pressure when it was really loud, but it was still normal as always.

DIM Complex (diindolylmethane) [100 mg per capsule which contains DIM (25 %), starch, vitamin E, phosphatidyl choline, silica; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 half capsules per day. I hoped for a better result, but it proved to have mixed effects, however neither was too strong. Initially there seems to be some positive effect, however later some negative effects switch in. In the beginning I took whole capsules, but this resulted in more than average flatulence.
I did not have an O, but masturbated some and while libido seemed to be alright symptoms began to increase as usual.
Considering my earlier experiences with indole-3-carbinol and choline chloride I lean to say the bad effects are more likely to be caused by phosphatidyl choline than DIM itself.

Eucommia Bark (Eucommia ulmoides) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily and had an O. It was beneficial and I couldn’t notice particular side-effects. Otherwise it only provided a smaller benefit and it couldn’t stop the marching of POIS. It helped with gut issues to a small to moderate degree and had a little positive effect on the eyes, however this was not significant. Eucommia somewhat reminded me of Magnolia with a little less efficacy, thus I give it a weak-moderate score.

Beta-sitosterol retest [400 mg plant sterols per capsule of which 50% is beta-sitosterol; Rd: 2]: I took half capsules 3 times a day (300 mg beta-sitosterol) and had an O. Even at the first time I took beta-sitosterol I could see a definite benefit towards POIS, however I also developed a headache which made me postpone further tests. This time I took even more daily without any headache occurring, so this may not be an actual side-effect just an unlucky coincidence. Beta-sitosterol proved to be really good for gut issues. Stool quality was really good and the burning pain was more than moderately reduced. Otherwise other symptoms didn’t benefit that much. I think it also had a little positive effect on eye issues and morning photophobia was also a bit reduced, but not the one caused by sunshine. I still had some depression and muscle fatigue was still present during work. I can give it a good rating, however I think ganoderma and maca, which also contain some amount of beta-sitosterol, were actually better.

Herbal Pause aka EstroG-100TM (a blend of Phlomis umbrosa, Cynanchum wilfordii and Angelica gigas Nakai (Roots)) [257 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took three capsules daily and had an O. This combination had a positive effect evidently, although I can’t say that it was strong, but still fairly noticeable. It had a weak-moderate effect on gut issues and had a moderate one on eye issues. I don’t think other symptoms were much different from their usual fluctuating manner. Still it occurred to me afterwards, that it may have blunted the feeling of coldness. My relatives said they were cold due to the weather, but I couldn’t feel it, even though being in acute POIS, however after stopping with herbal pause the next day I could definitely perceive the cold sensation. Its price doesn’t make it a treatment of choice, but it could be still better than red clover that had a similar effectiveness. One study says that this blend doesn’t have any estrogenic effect, however another study found that one of them (Cynanchum wilfordii) is actually an agonist of ERbeta.

Peruvian diatomaceous earth [powder, 94% SiO2; Rd: 1-2 tablespoons]: I took 3-4 teaspoons per day mixed in water and had an O. It proved to be quite good actually, mostly for gut issues. It began to act after about half a day. Diatomaceous earth reduced the burning pain relatively well, which also lessened the muscle pain that was apparent at rest. However I still perceived muscle pain and fatigue especially when working and after O the muscle pain was really strong. On bloodshot eyes it had either a minimal positive impact or non at all which was especially so after O. Depression and other symptoms were also rather average. Even though being an inert compound strangely it could still induce some flatulence like practically all the other stuff. While in itself diatomaceous earth is not so great I could imagine it being a good addition to other supplements, unless it reduces their effectiveness.
I mostly suspect its absorptive function at play, although comparing to charcoal capsules it had no rapid effect, but fortunately no adverse effects either. It is also a good source of calcium, but it is not clear if that could be the reason for its benefit. However silicon supposedly needs several weeks to be effective which does not make it the likely cause for any rapid changes.

Simethicone [280 mg per softgel; Rd: 1-2 per meal]: I took daily 3-4. I somewhat remembered so from years ago, but now I can confirm that in my particular case simethicone is not only bad at reducing flatulence, but to the contrary actually induces it quite a bit. This mostly happens 5-7 hours after consumption. It wouldn’t be such a big issue if it worked really well, however its overall effectiveness on POIS is just weak, which doesn’t make it a great choice for me. The most simethicone does is a little help with gut issues, but this is certainly not considerable. It didn’t seem to have any particular effect on eyes, depression or fatigue. Simethicone may still help some people, but be prepared that it may also backfire.

Resveratrol (yeast fermented) [125 mg per capsule of which 57% is Veri-te trans-resveratrol; Rd: 1]: I took 2-4 capsules without an O. I found it rather disappointing. I could get some good feeling out of it (around 6 hours after intake), but that was the most as it only had a lesser positive effect on eye and gut issues. For example muscle fatigue and photophobia were not much better than usual. Interestingly it also lacked the tinnitus intensifying side-effect of the other two resveratrol supplements. Overall it possibly had a weak-moderate positive effect, but the other two resveratrol products were definitely better.
The product is supposed to contain high purity (>98%) resveratrol that is produced by a novel yeast fermentation process which also makes it devoid of PAH and emodin. I was wondering if emodin could be responsible for the greater benefit of the resveratrol derived from Polygonum cuspidatum as they may have a synergistic effect, especially so as emodin is another ERbeta agonist, and other members had also benefited from it.

MACA 20:1 extract [400 mg per capsule containing 20:1 extract which supposedly equals 8000 mg dry root; Rd: 1]: I took 2-3 per day and had an O. While it is certainly beneficial at the moment I can’t see that much of a difference between the 20:1 and 6:1 extracts. This extract had about a moderate positive effect for both eye and gut issues and while I could feel better mentally from time to time this was not so distinct as with the 6:1 extract. I guess the quality of the original source matters quite a lot. Muscle fatigue was generally weaker, but could be still felt. I would still recommend trying different maca extracts as one may find one that works really well.

Rhubarb root tea [Half to one tablespoon herb added to about 1 liter water (3-4 cups)]: I consumed 2-3 cups for two days and had an O on the second day. Rhubarb tea is weakly effective for POIS as it had a weak-moderate positive effect on eyes and a weak effect for gut issues. I don’t think it did anything about muscle fatigue as it was quite in pain after exhaustive work, but it seemed to have some protective effect for the eyes both after work (not during) and after O. Depression was not especially strong, but could be still felt from time to time. The only real problem I see with rhubarb is that it is a laxative which is evident after about 7-10 hours of consumption. It is still more tolerable than senna though, but one has to be aware of this “side-effect”.
The real reason I wanted to test rhubarb is that it is considered a source of emodin. My varying experiences with resveratrol tell me that the Polygonum cuspidatum derived resveratrol may work best due to a synergy between resveratrol and emodin as it is a source of both. I also took two capsules of Veri-te resveratrol with a cup of rhubarb tea at one night before going to sleep and while POIS symptoms were noticeably reduced by morning I could not feel the distinct anti-photophobic effect, so this theory has yet to be proven by using other emodin and resveratrol sources.

Red grape skin powder [Rd: not given]: I took daily 3 teaspoons without an O. It certainly has a positive effect. Both eye and gut issues were reduced moderately, however it lacked a distinct anti-depressive or feeling good effect. Muscle fatigue/pain was also rather usual. It also lacked the tinnitus amplifying effect, however rarely I could feel some transient blood vessel tensions. I have noticed something similar with a number of other supplements and although it is not something serious, still it may be better to only take 1-2 teaspoons per day.
Earlier I had some occasional problems with grapes and raisins. As both grape skin and grape seed proved beneficial I have to suspect fructose as a possible culprit.
This is also a source of resveratrol, however its effects did not remind me of the other resveratrol products.

Hyaluronic acid Forte (sodium hyaluronate) [100 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: I took 3 half pills (about 150 mg) without an O. I couldn’t notice much change in the short period I took it. It seems to be a little beneficial for gut issues and maybe minimally to eyes. Muscle pain was rather usual and depression persisted. As HA is considered pro-carcinogenic I wanted to see if it does anything to the lymph nodes, but they remained rather unchanged. All in all it has a weak positive effect, but I don’t think I will incorporate HA to my stack.

Fermented black garlic [400 mg per capsule with 400 ug standardized S-allyl-L-cysteine content; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day. While it was certainly beneficial a little, I don’t think it has a particular edge over regular garlic capsules and was probably only slightly better. It had a weak-moderate positive effect on gut issues and a weak one on eyes. Depression and fatigue were quite usual. I did not have an O, but masturbated some and also did some extensive work, so symptoms were still present. I can give it a weak-moderate score, but I don’t consider this to be a cost effective addition for my treatment compared to regular garlic capsules.

Aged fermented black garlic [650 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 2 capsules per day and had an O. Unfortunately aged black garlic was somewhat of a letdown for me. I don’t think it was any better than the regular black garlic powder. It may have a little better benefit on gut issues compared to regular black garlic, but that is moderate at best. However its effect on the eyes was worse and sometimes I had to wonder if the bloodshot eyes were actually induced by aged garlic, something that I had not experienced with simple black garlic. Besides these muscle fatigue and depression were really just as usual. If I want to remain objective I can’t give it a better score than weak.

Pterostilbene [50 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3-4 capsules per day and had an O. Pterostilbene is certainly useful, however it is less so than what I would have expected from a resveratrol analog with high bioavailability. It clearly had a small benefit on the eyes, however after O the eyes were still rather bloodshot, but later and faced with exercise intolerance it could still provide a small relief. It had a moderate-good effect on gut issues, but other symptoms like muscle fatigue, enervated thinking and lymph node enlargements remained rather average. Interestingly it did not cause an enhancement of tinnitus as what I had experienced with some other resveratrol products. One thing I took particular note of was the reduction of burning pain during urination and it was also easier due to this. This effect was most apparent when I woke up during the night to take a leak. It is quite unfortunate that pterostilbene did not particularly lessen photophobia in the morning even when I took two capsules before going to sleep. I could generally say that it has a solid moderate effect on POIS.

Cedar oil (100% cold pressed cedar oil) [100 g contains 53 mg vitamin E, 0.60 mg vitamin B2, 0.09 vitamin B1; Rd: 2.5-10 ml (about 3 teaspoon)]: I took about 3 teaspoons (about 8 ml) per day and had an O. It only has a smaller effect. Even before O one of the eyes became unusually bloody veined, but not the other. It is not clear if this was caused by cedar oil or that I had worked too much at the time. Surprisingly after O nothing really changed and everything was average as usual, so it may still have some protective effect nonetheless. Unless it has a long term effect I can only score it as weak and safflower oil was definitely better.

Yerba mate [Rd: half teaspoon per occasion]: I took 3 half teaspoons per day and had an O.
It was a pleasant surprise, although I did not expect much. It had a rather good effect generally on eyes and gut issues, but even more it had an evident anti-depressive effect. It is also indicated for fatigue reduction, but I did not experience this during the short time I took it. Lymphatic nodes also didn’t change and eating something bad could really reduce its effect. Similar to some other stuff this one reduced rhinitis, while increasing nasal congestion at the same time. Unfortunately the anti-depressive effect was only distinct the first time, but not so much afterwards. In a day I also took it with saffron and it had a really nice effect, although it still lacked a clear edge on depression. At the first time I could also experience a particular odor that was very reminiscent to what I had experienced with ecdysterone, although the reason is unclear. While its effect on POIS was clearly positive I still had a somewhat burning ejaculation that is less than common for me, so I would need to check it a few other times to see if there is any correlation. As yerba mate was indicated as potentially pro-carcinogenic if used over a longer time it may be better to keep its usage as occasional as possible.

Boswellia serrata (Indian frankincense extract) [400 mg per capsules with 260 mg boswellic acid; Rd: 2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. It certainly has a noticeable positive effect. Both gut and eye issues were moderately better. I couldn’t notice a particular effect on depression and muscle fatigue may have been only a bit better. There occurred a really troubling side-effect though, as by the end of work I always developed a painful red skin around the anus which was rather painful. Otherwise I only have this symptom very rarely when I work really excessively, but this time it happened on three consecutive days, although it was only painful on two days and on one day only the skin was red without the pain. I think the problem was mostly caused by the one I took in the morning before work as the one I took in the afternoon after work and the other one in the evening did not seem to induce it. My guess is that boswellia actually helps with POIS, but it also causes a shift in exercise intolerance that can be seen as a deterioration of my condition. So it has a moderate-good effect, but I could also put it in the mixed category depending on symptom importance.

I also updated the food list with some elements (shown in orange)

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: etcosp on May 20, 2022, 11:44:23 AM

Thank you very much for the documentation, Progecitor ! It's always interesting to read your reports.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on July 17, 2022, 03:52:52 AM

Sea kelp [150 ug of natural iodine per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took one and a half pill per day, but did not have an O. Regardless sea kelp was not very remarkable or it just needs more time to exert a positive effect. Gut issues seemed to be better to a weak-moderate level, while eye issues were only a little better. Lymphatic issues did not seem to change at all. I can score sea kelp as weakly effective with short term usage and I think Spirulina was actually better.

Lithium orotate [5 mg lithium per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily two (10 mg), but did not have an O. I expected somewhat more from lithium, but it did not turn out so good, although the fault may be the short term usage. I think it had a weak positive effect. The stool was definitely looser, but it was burning as usual. I did not see a change in either depression, muscle fatigue or lymphatic issues. When faced with exercise intolerance my symptoms deteriorated practically as usual and I had quite bad bloodshot eyes. Thus short term usage only provides a weak relief.

Giloy (Tinospora cordifolia) (aka Guduchi) [340 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 3 per day and had an O. Giloy is another supplement that works really well. It had an evident positive effect on both gut and eye issues. It actually made me feel better. Allergic rhinitis was also reduced. It couldn’t overcome muscle fatigue and I was not perfectly well, but still it made a significant difference even on its own. It also did not help with lymphatic problems that only seem to change when I use something very potent. Still giloy belongs among the best, so I hope others will also try it. As Giloy is considered an aphrodisiac its benefit isn’t that much of a surprise by now. Unfortunately there is also indication for hepatotoxicity with long-term use, though occasional application to boost POIS recovery could be still safe.

Turmeric (Curcuma longa) [720 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 2 per day, but did not have an O. I heard that commercial spices are sometimes fakes, so I thought it was best to try a supplement form from a trusted brand. I didn’t expect much and I got just that as turmeric hardly made a difference in usual symptoms. At least it doesn’t seem to be outright bad, but the only possible change was a slight benefit to gut issues and nothing more. As a possible side-effect I also developed a rather weak headache on two days that may have been due to turmeric. I could say that turmeric has a weak effect, but at this point I see no reason to include it in my stack.

Ginseng Royal Jelly [200 mg Panax ginseng extract and 200 mg royal jelly per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took 2 per day and had an O. Its effect seemed a little inconsistent, but it was certainly beneficial. It had a weak-moderate effect on both gut and eye issues. At some point it also seemed to reduce rhinitis. It also helped with exercise intolerance induced bloodshot eyes, although not to a very great extent. I would say that it has a moderate effect although it needs to be taken continuously for a few days to see its benefit. It may be possible that a greater dosage could result in a more consistent effect.

Horny goat tincture [1 ml contains 1:5 extract of Epimedium, Tribulus and Damiana that equals to 250 mg dried herbs (83 mg each); Rd: 3 ml]: I took 1 ml (25 drops) three times per day and had an O. "Unfortunately" this supplement also contains Tribulus and Damiana, so the individual contribution of Epimedium is not clear. This one had a moderate effect on both gut and eye issues, but it simply didn’t feel good enough. Later I increased the dose to 40 drops then to 50 drops three times a day and while it felt even better I can’t say that it made a very significant change as I still suffered from some bloodshot eyes and muscle fatigue. I can’t say that I had experienced any significant side-effects, but epimedium may cause some cardiovascular issues, so it is probably not wise to use a high dose for a prolonged time. I could also notice an increase in libido, but it didn’t seem to effect sexual activity otherwise. I can give this a moderate-good score even when used in double dosage.

Goji berry: I consumed about 75-100 pieces of berries divided to 3-4 times a day. I also had an O that was slightly burning in quality. Goji berries only have a weak effect in my case. Gut issues were weakly or maybe weak-moderately better, however eye issues were practically as usual. I believe cardamom, which is another source of quercetin, was actually better for me as a comparison.

Jiaogulan tea (Gynostemma pentaphyllum) [used by adding 1 teaspoon to 1 liter of hot water; Rd: 2-3 cup]: I drank at least 3 cups worth of the tea, but did not have an O. My experience was positive, although it was less than I would have preferred. It had a moderate benefit on gut issues, but only a small one on eye issues. It could also noticeable reduce allergic rhinitis. At the first time I could experience some anti-depressive effect, but later it wasn’t so. Muscle fatigue and weakness were also rather unchanged. For now I can score its benefit as weak-moderate.

Lyophilized Shiitake slices: I ate 10 slices (about 1g dry matter) raw and soaked in water three times a day (about 3g). Its effect was rather unremarkable compared to some of the other medicinal mushrooms. I think it had a small benefit on both gut and eye issues, but nothing else. It also had a lasting (hours) aftertaste which was somewhat uncomfortable for my throat. Next time I may need to try the powdered form, but it may just not work that well for me or needs a prolonged time to exert its effects.

Sea-buckthorn leaves tea (Hippophae rhamnoides) [mostly the leaves with a few pieces of dried fruits]: I made the tea with one or two tablespoons of herb added to half or one liter of water and consumed three-four cups a day. I tried both the hot and cold water tea, but could not see much of a difference. Sea-buckthorn proved to be a little beneficial for both gut and eye issues, but this wasn’t considerable even in a greater volume. I experienced a stronger tinnitus particularly at night and found the blood pressure to be lower than usual, although not to the extent to suffer from it, but one may need to be careful when consuming a lot. Last year I also ate the powder of the fruit and it evidently increased POIS. As it was way expired I think the cause was something like aflatoxin and not the fruit itself as I earlier believed. 

Pau D'Arco (Tabebuia heptaphylla) [500 mg inner bark per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took three capsules per day and had an O. It provided a smaller benefit for the eyes and about a weak-moderate help for gut issues. Pau D’Arco had a weak-moderate effect, but I am not sure it is worth taking in the long run due to unpredictable safety. The reason I tired Pau D’Arco is that it can inhibit AP-1, although this alone doesn’t seem to be able to solve my problems. As a possible side-effect sometimes I could experience a sudden pressure-like feeling in the head, although later this didn’t seem to occur, so it may have been only a passing effect or not the actual fault of Pau D’Arco.

Camu-camu [fruit powder; Rd: 1 teaspoon]: I took 3 teaspoons daily and had an O. The amount I consumed contains about 2000 mg of vitamin C and its effect (and taste) was rather similar to Triphala and Vitamin C-1000+. Gut and eye issues were moderately better and it prevented the appearance of more severe symptoms. The first morning I was certainly feeling better than usual, although it was not perfect of course. I think camu-camu deserves a moderate score, although the used dosage is probably too much for long-term application.

Cascara (coffee cherry fruit): I drank 3-4 cups daily made from 2 tablespoons of cascara. This was rather disappointing for me as it clearly doesn’t have any anti-depressive effect in my case. It was also rather useless for other symptoms as well. Bloodshot eyes were practically average and gut issues also seemed rather unchanged. Well it may work better for other POISers than me, but if nothing else it has a really good taste. I guess simply increasing BDNF is not enough for an anti-depressive effect in my case.

MSM: I took 1-1.5 teaspoons of MSM per day without an O. I also used it in the past and I think it has a little positive effect on POIS. Even though it is clearly not the best remedy, still I think it has at least some effect on joint pain (e.g. knees), which is not a POIS symptom for me, but is sometimes a result of overexertion at work.

Burdock tincture (Arctium Lappa) [1 ml equals 250 burdock; Rd: 25 drops (1 ml) three times a day (equivalent 750 mg)]: I took 3-5 ml per day and had an O. It had a weaker effect on gut issues and a weak-moderate on bloodshot eyes. Burdock seems to help a little with most symptoms. At times it felt like it also ameliorated depression a little, but this effect was not distinct. However the overall change as I feel it is still poor. Its effect seemed rather similar to feverfew tincture, but possibly slightly less effective. Nevertheless it deserves a weak-moderate score.

Perilla: I consumed 3 teaspoons of oil per day spread on bread and had an O. Perilla had a moderate effect on gut issues and a weak-moderate effect on eyes. I think I also experienced a weaker anti-depressive effect and I was somehow feeling better. Overall symptom reduction was less than 50 % though. It was possibly a little better than safflower oil and it deserves a moderate-good score. The two most notable compounds in it are probably rosmarinic acid and luteolin. Perilla may also lose its effectiveness over time according to CFS people.

Dong quai (Angelica sinensis root) [530 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-5] + Angelica rhizome tea:
I took daily five capsules. I did not have an O, but masturbated twice during the trial. I also cooked a tea from the rhizome (1 tablespoon in 1 liter of water), but the overall experience was not much different. It had a weak positive effect on the eyes, but this only occurred when I didn’t masturbate, otherwise it couldn’t deal with bloodshot eyes. Its effect on the gut issues was possibly weak-moderate, but eating some chili and masturbation mostly obliterated its positive effect. Drinking a larger amount of its tea at once seems to provide a little better relief, but still not great and its toxicity is in question, although I don’t think I had experienced any particular side-effects during the trial.

Cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa bark) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took daily 3 caps and had two Os. Cat’s claw certainly has a moderate-good effect on gut issues and as far as I could judge it has about a weak-moderate effect on bloodshot eyes. I think it possibly has a very weak anti-depressive effect about 4 hours after intake, but this couldn’t change my general low mood. As a possible side-effect I also developed a weak ass muscle inflammation, but it is not clear if it was really due to cat’s claw. While my experience after the first O was not so great the protective effect after the second time seemed much better. I was transitioning to calcium pyruvate at the time, but only later realized that the protective effect must have been due to cat’s claw. It is not a miracle in itself of course, but still I can give it a moderate-good rating. Its effectiveness is possibly around that of hesperidin, but one needs to take it for several days to see the benefit and not only a few hours before the actual O.

Calcium pyruvate [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 3]: I took 3-4 capsules daily. I hoped for some noticeable surge of energy or anti-depression, but in the end I couldn’t experience anything like that. It was somewhat beneficial though just not greatly. It seemed to have a weak benefit on both gut issues and bloodshot eyes. It did not reduce muscle fatigue/pain and depression. Lymphatic issues were also average. For now I can only give it a weak score.

Calcium D-Glucarate [200 mg per capsule with 24 mg of calcium]: I took daily 3 and had an O. While it was somewhat more beneficial than calcium pyruvate, even so it didn’t provide a significant relief. This one had a weak positive effect on the eyes and a weak-moderate on gut issues. When I took two capsules at once the benefit seemed a little better as it had a weak-moderate effect on the eyes. Other issues like muscle fatigue, depression and lymphatic issues appeared rather average, thus I can only give it a weak-moderate score. Long term usage may provide a better relief, although I am not convinced. Calcium D-glucarate is known to reduce excessive hormones, especially estrogen, so it should theoretically help reduce estrogen dominance, however this may be of lesser significance if the disbalance is caused by a lack of testosterone or ERbeta activity.

Pulsatilla 30CH (Pulsatilla pratensis) [additives: lactose 0.04 g per 5 pillets and sacharose; Rd: 3 x 5 pillet]: I took daily 3-4 x 5 pillet and had an O. I don’t think it had any particular effect on eye symptoms, however surprisingly it was apparently somewhat beneficial for gut issues. Other symptoms were as usual and the only other thing I noticed was that the nightly urinations seemed less burning and easier, although this may have been a subjective experience. I definitely had a hard time in achieving O, but this may have nothing to do with Pulsatilla as I have overdone masturbation recently and the previous O was also difficult to achieve. As of now I can give it a weak score. However the actually effective compound is in question as homeopathics above C12 potency are not supposed to contain any active compounds. Later I may test a lesser potency (lesser diluted) Pulsatilla in combination with Thuja to confirm any rational for homeopathics.

Organic Saw palmetto (Serenoa repens L.) [1 pill contains: 320 mg saw palmetto fruit extract (equals 3200 mg powder), 150 mg smallflower hairy willowherb herb extract (equals 1500 mg powder), 175 mg common nettle extract (equals 2100 mg herb powder), 10 mg zinc citrate, 55 ug selenium; Rd: 1]:
I took daily 2 pills but only masturbated without an O. I took one or two boxes of saw palmetto a few years ago and although exact details elude me now, I did not find it particularly useful at the time. My current experience was also rather disappointing. It was totally useless for eye symptoms and I had to wonder if they were not actually enhanced. Gut issues weren’t much better either, although stool consistency was definitely better, however the more prognostic burning practically remained the same. It is true though that urination seemed a bit easier, but the burning feeling could be also felt, although it may have been a bit reduced. An unpleasant side-effect is that I could often feel a sharp stab in the prostate, which contrary to the burning pain is not a regular POIS symptom in my case. I have to note that I did not take it for a long time due to the eye symptoms, so long-term experience may be different, still it is certainly not the best treatment for me. For now I would put it in the mixed category and could most liken its overall effect to sodium butyrate. As for the other constituents I can say that before knowing the name of the disease I used smallflower hairy willowherb tea regularly to ameliorate my symptoms. While it was quite useful for a time I noticed its effect to plummet after a while. I think I mostly had a bad reaction to common nettle tea in the past, although I did not have the time to verify this. Selenium pills seemed a little useful when I took a box of it several years ago and zinc gives me some specific trouble, although this did not occur at this time probably due to the small amount.

Slippery Elm (Ulmus rubra bark) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 2-6]: I took daily 4-6 and had an O. I am not completely sure, but I think it had either a weak to moderate or moderate positive effect on gut issues. Unfortunately though it was pretty useless for eye issues at the same time. Other symptoms were also rather average. I think I still got some weaker mood enhancement out of it from time to time, though it lacked an apparent anti-depressive effect. As a possible side-effect I think it can cause a weaker temporary headache when taken in a higher dose, although this was certainly not serious. A side note is that somehow its taste reminded me to one of the earlier supplements I took, but unfortunately at the moment I can’t recall exactly what it was. The taste though may imply a similar composition. So all in all I would give it a weak-moderate score for now.

Black Cohosh (Cimicifuga racemosa root) [540 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2 and had an O. This one proved to be quite alright even if not fantastic. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, however it really helped in reducing bloodshot eyes even if not perfectly. I think it also had a weaker anti-depressive effect, although certainly not distinct, but rather subdued. Eyesight also remained rather blurry. Morning photophobia seemed to be a little reduced, but it wasn’t worth much in direct sunshine. Allergic rhinitis also appeared to a be a little reduced and to confirm my earlier experience at one time it caused some nasal congestion in doing so. Muscle fatigue and lymphatic issues remained mostly the same. As a possible side-effect a few times I experienced some minor heart discomfort, but it was not consistent, so I am not sure if it was really a side-effect of black cohosh. Bradycardia is an indicated side-effect, but measured BP and pulse were alright. At another time some pain occurred somewhere around the descending colon, but I am not sure if it was instead caused by some food I ate. It would have to be tested for a longer time to ascertain this. Anyway even if not the treatment of choice black cohosh certainly shows some benefit which should be indicative of the underlying mechanism. I think its effectiveness is somewhat around that of mangosteen or hesperedin, although these latter certainly seem the safer choices.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on July 23, 2022, 06:04:34 AM

Quote from: etcosp on May 20, 2022, 11:44:23 AM

Thank you very much for the documentation, Progecitor ! It's always interesting to read your reports.

I am glad if it helps anyone. I only wish more people would test and report about the stuff that was really beneficial for me even if they proved ineffective for others or caused any adverse effects. It is quite clear that I have success with many of the same stuff as Quantum or Berlin1984. Even if our cases are not perfectly the same there ought to be more of us who would greatly benefit from the same supplements.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on September 15, 2022, 01:44:41 PM

Pine Bark extract [70 mg per capsule with 50 mg pine bark extract and 20 mg vitamin E; Rd:1]: I took daily 2-3, but did not have an O. It was definitely useful, however not too much. I did not have an O, but I was working more than usual during the trial, so exercise intolerance was stronger. Regarding pine bark extract its effect on both gut and eye issues only seemed weak. It certainly did not have any anti-depressive effect and muscle fatigue was also as usual. One detail I did notice is that the nightly urinations were practically none burning. It wasn’t so during the days as exercise intolerance enhances this pain. Another observation was a reduced rhinitis as the nose was quite clear, however at the same time I experienced some flares of chest inflammation, so it wasn’t any effective in that regard. Considering everything I can only give it a weak-moderate score and I am note sure if it is worth adding to a stack especially considering its price.

Lycopene [10 mg per softgel capsule; Rd:1-4]: I took daily 2-3 and had an O. Lycopene proved to be quite useful. Its effect on gut issues was weak-moderate at best, however it was quite good for the eyes.  What is more lycopene also provided an improvement in mood. Most interestingly its overall effect resembled much to resveratrol (Polygonum cuspidatum), but somewhat weaker. It also helped me to sleep through the night and the difference was most apparent in the mornings. Morning photophobia seemed a bit reduced, but it wasn’t enough when I was going outside. The anti-depressive effect was also not very distinct during the day and the blurry sight was still present from time to time. Lymphatic issues and muscle fatigue were mostly average. While lycopene may be not the most effective its lack of any apparent side-effect makes it worthy to add it to my future stack.

Quinoa: I cooked 250 mg of dry quinoa like rice and ate it during two days and had an O. While quinoa seems to have some benefit it doesn’t seem to be comparable to ecdysterone capsules. For one it doesn’t provide an anti-depressive effect. It also had a lesser effect on both gut and eye issues. Nevertheless quinoa appeared at least somewhat useful, but I can only give it a weak rating.

Corn Silk tea: I made the teas by adding 1 tablespoon to about 1 liter of boiling water and drank it throughout the day. I also had an O, but exercise intolerance was more of an issue at the time. I expected something more, but nevertheless it has some positive effect. I far as I can tell it had a weak-moderate benefit on both eye and gut issues. It didn’t seem to affect depression or lymphatic issues much. As corn silk can presumably decrease lactic acid I hoped that it may reduce exercise intolerance, however at the time I was working a lot of physical work in the heat and by the end of the day I felt so weak that I could hardly stand. Thus it may help a little with this issue, but certainly not to a significant level. I don’t think I experienced any side-effect, although a weaker headache occurred on one day, but this may have been due to other reasons. If someone wants to try herbal teas it is a good choice as it is indicated for the treatment of prostatitis of what many of us clearly have, but as of now I can only give it a weak-moderate score when used as a singular treatment.

Pomegranate (Punica Granatum L.) [400 mg extract per capsule of which 40% are polyphenols; Rd:2]: I took daily 2-3 caps (800-1200 mg) and had an O. It definitely helped although not to a great extent. Its effect on gut issues was moderate at best. At first it seemed like it has no effect on eye issues at all, especially after O. However on the first POIS day I took two caps at once and then it showed some benefit at least. Other symptoms appeared mostly average. I can score it weak-moderate in the used dosage, although it may be possible that a greater dosage would show a more clear benefit.

Oat straw (Avena sativa) (whole stem) [350 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took daily 3 caps, but only masturbated without an O. Unfortunately it wasn’t that useful as I hoped that it may be. Eye issues were mostly the same or only slightly better, while gut issues, although noticeable better, but at most only to a weak-moderate level. Other symptoms like depression were mostly the same. As oat straw is regarded as an aphrodisiac I wanted to check its effects on libido, however I couldn’t particularly note either an increase or decrease in it while masturbating and the desire seemed rather normal. Oat straw is also considered a good source of beta glucan, so it is possible that it only shows its benefit at long-term. At least oat straw is considered rather safe which could be important when one wants to combine several supplements. For now though I can only give a weak score to its individual effectiveness.

Ginkgo Biloba (leaves) [300 mg per capsules; Rd:1]: I took daily 2 caps and had an O. Right on the first day when I had the O I could see a clear benefit with ginkgo biloba. The eyes became much clearer and remained mostly so even after ejaculation. It also had an evident benefit on gut issues, although I wouldn’t say that it was more than moderate. It also definitely reduced rhinitis, however I couldn’t see a clear benefit on depression. Also on later days when faced with exercise intolerance its initial efficacy clearly diminished and the eyes were more bloodshot. I don’t think that further increasing the dosage is an option, but it may be worth adding it to some combination. Its individual efficacy is good, but not consistent in which regard I could most liken it to milk thistle.

Devil's tongue extract – glucomannan gum (Amorphophallus konjac) [500 mg per capsules; Rd: 6 (2x3)]: I took daily 6 capsules (3 x 2), but did not have an O. I was still in acute POIS and under the duress of physical work so I can tell that it wasn’t particularly effective. Eye symptoms appeared almost like always and its effect on gut issues was only weak. Specifically the stool was looser than usual, but the burning pain didn’t change much. Other symptoms were also rather average, so I don’t think devil’s tongue has much of an effect on POIS, but at least it appears safe to use.

Chios Mastiha lozenges (mastic gum) [2200 mg per lozenge with 0.2% chios mastiha oil and with additional sweeteners; Rd: not given]: I took daily 4 lozenges and had an O. I did not expect mastiha to be really effective in my case, so it was a pleasant surprise that it turned out to be quite good. It had an apparent good effect on gut issues and it also reduced eye symptoms about moderately. I can’t say that I was feeling perfectly well after the O, but still it made a noticeable difference. I could not see much of a change in other symptoms like muscle fatigue or lymphatic issues. It also did not have a distinct anti-depressive effect, though I was also not too much depressed either. In my particular case mastiha seems to work just like all the other stuff meaning that it is most effective at about 6-12 hours and as long as it is in my system. In the mornings I definitely felt a little better than average, however this wasn’t as strong as with lycopene and although the eyes weren’t that bloodshot they still felt tired and somewhat photophobic. It seemed at least a bit more effective than cat’s claw though and its overall effect is possibly around that of berberine. As this one was the cheapest mastiha product I could get I will need to test a more expensive and quality one to see the full effectiveness of mastiha. Furthermore the ingredients list states that it contains 95.8g/100g of polyols which may mean that I don’t have any problem with this FODMAP after all.

Caprylic acid (from medium-chain triglycerides) [600 mg per softgel capsules; Rd: 2]: I took daily 3 capsules (1800 mg), but did not have an O. This one had a weak-moderate or maybe even a moderate benefit on gut issues, however eye issues were the same as always. Muscle pain and most other issues also appeared the same. Even so I could notice a reduction in allergic rhinitis, however a concurrent weaker chest inflammation was not affected. Unfortunately as a side-effect I could experience a very dull and almost imperceptible headache on several occasions, which makes its use somewhat uncomfortable. For now I would only give it a weak rating.

Astragalus root (Astragalus membranaceus) [470 mg per capsules; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2-3 and had an O. I think Astragalus had a weak positive effect on both eye and gut issues, but the change was rather insignificant. I still had the concurrent lymphatic inflammation and Astragalus did not seem to reduce it. It may have increased libido a bit, but I didn’t feel any considerable change. The ejaculatory experience and post O POIS was rather average, so I don’t think that Astragalus have that much of an impact and I can only score it as weak when taken only for short-term.

Allerdin [1 pill contains the extracts of the following: 240 mg Malabar nut leaf, 200 mg Chinese basil, 200 mg rosemary, 160 mg green tea, 100 mg Ginkgo, 100 mg licorice; Rd: 2]: I took 3 pill per day and had an O. This is an anti-allergy formula, but unfortunately it did not prove especially useful. At first I thought that it actually worsened bloodshot eyes, however later this didn’t prove likely. Nevertheless it was pretty much useless for eye symptoms as I couldn’t see them getting any better. At least it proved about moderately beneficial for gut issues, but other symptoms seemed mostly unchanged. I still had a weaker lymphatic inflammation in one of the breast and I felt that the pills could have sustained it. Green tea is the most likely culprit in this as I had similar experiences in the past. The positive effect on gut issues were probably mostly due to licorice as it helped a lot before. At least with this formulae I didn’t experience any heart issues. Another possible side-effect was a sometimes cramping blood vessel on the left foot, although blood pressure was alright. Well it was an interesting try at least, but at most it had only a weak-moderate effect, which doesn’t make it desirable for me.

Neem powder (organic neem leaves) [Nutritional value per 100 g: 2 g fiber, 9.4 g protein, 0.257 mg thiamin (B1), 0.66 mg Riboflavin (B2), 2.77 g Niacin (B3), 1.2 mg Pyridoxine (B6), 51.7 mg vitamin C, 185 mg calcium, 0.64 mg zinc; Rd: ¼ teaspoon two times]: I took about 1/3 teaspoon of neem powder per day, but did not have an O. I put the powder in hot water following the recommendation. It was only a little beneficial for gut issues, however it proved to have a somewhat better effect on bloodshot eyes, though this was more apparent during the days as I still had morning photophobia and eye tiredness. It certainly didn’t have any anti-depressive effect and muscle fatigue was also general. One of the neck lymph nodes was a little inflamed during the time, however the breast lymph node inflammation finally got less noticeable, so I don’t think it particularly affects this issue either. I don’t think I had experienced any particular side-effects, although its taste is very sour, which wouldn’t want me to make it an every day item unless I saw some major benefit. It is true though that others only saw its benefit after 2 weeks of regular consumption, but I simply don’t have the time to check for every detail. It may be possible that long-term effects are simply due to its content of zinc and vitamin B in which case it could take some time for them to accumulate in the body. Everything taken together I can give it a weak-moderate score when taken short-term, though it may work better with continuous usage.

Siberian fir needle oil lozenges [35 mg oil per lozenge; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3-4 per day without an O. Symptoms remained mostly average. I think it has a little benefit on both gut and eye issues, but this doesn’t account to much compared to the better stuff. At least I don’t think I experienced any side-effect, but its effectiveness is only weak.

Astaxanthin Forte (obtained from Haematococcus pluvialis algae) [4 mg astaxanthin per gel capsule; Rd:1]: I took 2 per day without an O. This is just another kind of astaxanthin. I felt it less effective than the other product, but it still had a noticeable benefit. It helped with gut issues about moderately, but it reduced the burning pain less so than the other one. It also had a moderate benefit on bloodshot eyes. I couldn’t notice a particular effect on depression, but it wasn’t really affected by the other one either. I can still give this a good score at least.

Resveratrol retest (Polygonum cuspidatum root extract) (new box of capsules!) [500 mg per caps; Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps per day without an O, although exercise intolerance is a constant issue nowadays, so I don’t lack POIS/CFS symptoms anyway. I bought another box of the same brand (Swanson) that proved really effective earlier, although the labeling was slightly different. It still works somewhat, but my experience was not so great as previously. Unfortunately this time I couldn’t experience the reduction in photophobia and still experienced it both in the morning and throughout the days. Bloodshot eyes were also not particularly reduced, but this experience was similar to earlier. At least it can provide a relaxing feeling which makes me feel better generally and sleeping was also easier. Gut issues were better, but only weakly. When I took it along with maca exercise intolerance was more bearable. Its relatively poor efficacy is rather surprising and disappointing considering my earlier success. One reason may be the excessive work I was doing at the time and the ensuing exercise intolerance. Another cause may be that the benefit mostly comes from a secondary, not standardized compound like emodin or I simply developed some drug-resistance as it happens most of the time, although the other box kept working till the last capsule. Somewhat interestingly it also seemed to lack the tinnitus enhancing side-effect I had experienced earlier which may imply the involvement of a non-standardized compound. As a comparison this kind of resveratrol’s earlier efficacy was definitely better than of lycopene, however this time it actually seemed less effective than that.

Boron [30 mg Bororganic Glycine with 3 mg of Boron per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps per day and had an O. Boron turned out to be rather good. The eyes remained rather clear even after the O and it also helped with gut issues about moderately. I still had some depression and other symptoms remained rather general. Boron reduced reduced rhinitis and cleared the nose, however at the same time it made me susceptible to chest inflammation. I had a concurrent episode even before taking boron and while it didn’t seem to directly induce the symptom I think it shifted POIS in a similar way that I had experienced with several other supplements earlier. It may be worth to note that during masturbation the libido and control were rather good, however I had a burning ejaculate which is not common. I suspect it was not caused by boron as by now I can see some accumulating effect if I had exercise intolerance in the previous days. Especially so as there is a direct correlation between the burning urine and exercise intolerance as well.
All in all I wouldn’t claim it to be spectacular on its own, but I could easily imagine boron as part of a stack and currently I can score it as moderately beneficial.

7-KETO (DHEA Acetate-7-one)  [25 mg per capsule; Rd: 3]: I took 2 caps per day and had an O. I bought another box of DHEA from a more trustworthy brand. Unfortunately my experience was not much different than the other product I had tried before. I could ascertain that DHEA doesn’t help with bloodshot eyes, but at least it also doesn’t induce it as far as I could tell. Gut issues were definitely better a little, but this was so with the other product as well. Most other symptoms were also present, so it didn’t help with them (e.g. muscle fatigue, photophobia, depression). I still had the lymphatic inflammation in the chest and while it didn’t seem to induce the problem DHEA also did not make it any better either. The reason I didn’t take more is that I had experienced some rather scary heart palpitations. At first I wasn’t even sure if it was caused by DHEA, but by checking it on the net it turns out to be a common side-effect of its consumption. Even though I had some hope for DHEA earlier, it just doesn’t seem to help appreciably. Thus I can only give it a weak score.

Fructose [powder, 100%]: I consumed daily 5 teaspoons mixed in drinks, but did not have an O. I fully expected to have an adverse reaction to fructose, so I was rather surprised when it turned out that it may actually help somewhat. Both gut and eye issues seemed a little better. My experience was most similar to that of glycine. Of course long-term experiences may differ, however several fruits induce POIS only hours after consumption and I still can’t figure the real reason behind that.

Bladderwrack (Fucus vesiculosus) [25 drops equal 1 ml or 250 mg of bladderwrack; Rd: 3 x 25 drops]: I took about daily 3-4 x 25 drops without an O. Gut issues definitely seemed to be better about moderately. Eye issues also seemed a little better at times, but this was not consistent. Other issues remained mostly the same. Unfortunately I still had the ongoing chest inflammation and it couldn’t help to resolve it. For now I would score it as weak-moderate.

Kalmegh Churna or Indian Echinacea (Andrographis paniculata) [2.7 g Kalmegh contains 22.41 mg polyphenols; Rd: about one teaspoon (around 2.7 g)]: I took daily one and a half teaspoons (around 5 g) in hot water without an O, although masturbated some to induce symptoms. This one certainly works, although the change is not major, but I could see the benefits. It had about a moderate-good effect on gut issues and eye issues also seemed better, but not significantly. I also felt a little better and was a little less fatigued than usual. Finally the ongoing chest inflammation also subsided, though the hard lymphatic nodes could be still felt by touch. I think Andrographis at least contributed to this amelioration. The overall change wasn’t that great and I also used a higher than recommended dose, so I can score it to have a moderate-good effect leaning to the good side.

Chaga (Inonotus obliquus) [100 % bio chaga powder; Rd: 1/2-1 teaspoon]: In a mix I had already benefited from chaga, but I wanted to confirm its individual role. I took half a teaspoon 3 times a day (1.5 tsp) without an O. It proved to have about a moderate positive effect on gut issues, but the mixed mushrooms were certainly better as a comparison. Eye issues were also better, but while the white of the eye seemed brighter, I still experienced bloody veins with varying intensity. Mornings were a little better, but of course this was not a major change. Chaga seemed better than Andrographis, but I still can’t give it a better score than good, so it is rather similar to the other medicinal mushrooms.

Shaggy mane or chicken drumstick mushroom (Coprinus comatus pulvis) [300 mg per capsule including 30 mg polysaccharides and 9 mg comatin; Rd:2x2]: I took daily 4 (mostly 1+2+1) and had an O. Even before the day of O it seemed less effective than Chaga. Still it had some benefit, but I wouldn’t claim it to be especially useful. It had about a moderate effect on gut issues and possibly only a weaker one on eyes. Photophobia was usual and fatigue and depression as well. I can score it to about weak-moderate. Some study mentions that as a side-effect it may enhance atopic diseases, however I don’t believe this applies to my particular case.

Masticha original (mastic gum) (Pistacia lentiscus var. Chia) [350 mg per capsules; Rd: 3x2(6 caps = 2100 mg)]: I took daily 6 and had an O. It was certainly beneficial, however I couldn’t see that much of a difference compared to the lozenges. Gut issues were noticeably better to about a moderate-good level, but they were not perfect as the burning pain could be still felt. Interestingly the urine lacked the burning feeling several times with the exception after working. I worked a few hours on the first day and while the muscle fatigue seemed a little better, at the same time I felt really weak. Bloodshot eyes were also reduced somewhat, though not significantly. Mornings felt a little better than usual, but I don’t think I had noticed any particular anti-depressive effect. For now I can give it a good rating considering its possible long-term benefit, though as a singular treatment it doesn’t appear to be enough. As a comparison I can say that lycopene seemed better as a short-term treatment.
It may be worth mentioning that a few hours after the O I felt some cramping pain at the groin, although afterwards this did not occur, so the casual relationship is not clear.

Aloe Vera extract [25 mg per softgel capsule, 200:1 concentrate equivalent to 5 g of fresh inner leaf gel; Rd:2]: I took daily 3 and had an O. I think it had a moderate positive effect on gut issues, however it was rather useless for the eye symptoms as one of the eye was somewhat bloodshot all through the test, although the other remained quite alright. Another consistent benefit was a definite reduction in the burning quality of the urine with the exception when I took a leak right after work (exercise intolerance). At one time the nose felt quite relaxed so it probably also reduces rhinitis at least a bit. Other symptoms were mostly unaffected. On the last day of the trial I also took 2 Resveratrol caps along with the aloe caps, but even then the photophobia persisted which is a blow to any theory about a resveratrol and emodin synergy. Unfortunately I also suffered some kind of spontaneous muscle injury in the back-left shoulder region a few hours after its combined intake that lasted a few days, though I still took the combination in the evening and the pain was reduced by morning, so causality is not certain and I also had some similar episodes in the past, but I can’t exactly recall the supplements I took at the time. I am a bit hesitant to give aloe vera a moderate rating based on its overall effectiveness and such a high dose is also not considered safe for long-term use.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on October 05, 2022, 10:52:13 AM

Quote from: Progecitor on October 05, 2022, 10:44:51 AM

So here are the results:
sTSH:                        2.300 mU/L (0.300-4.200)
Total calcium:            2.47 mmol/L (2.10-2.60)
Phosphate:                0.86 mmol/L (0.8-1.45)
Glucose:                    5.5 mmol/L (3.6-6.0)
IgF1:                        138.8 ug/L (107.8-246.7)
17 beta-Estradiol:  45.80 ng/L (7.6-42.6)
FSH:                         3.91 IU/L (1.5-12.4)
LH:                           4.88 IU/L (1.7-8.6)
PRL:                         6.14 ug/L (4.1-21.4)
Testosterone:            22.160 nmol/L (9.90-27.80)
SHBG:                      48.29 nmol/L (11.4-52.3)
DHEAS:                    7.150 umol/L (2.400-11.500)

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on November 06, 2022, 09:10:37 AM

Butcher’s Broom root (Ruscus aculeatus) [470 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took daily 3 caps without an O. I think it helped with gut issues almost moderately and it also appeared to have a weaker benefit on bloodshot eyes. I am not completely sure, but several times after consumption within an hour I felt a little anti-depressive effect. This wasn’t strong and didn’t last much though. The legs felt a little less fatigued, but this could have been a placebo effect as it is indicated to improve lower body circulation and it may also reduce orthostatic intolerance, though I only have that with tryptophan and SSRIs. It also lacked any apparent side-effects, but the dosage I used could be much for long-term use. For now I can give it a weak-moderate score.

Goldenrod tea (Solidaginis herba) [made from 2 tablespoon of herba with 1.2 liter water]:  I drank daily four cups and also had an O. While not spectacular it still managed to mostly prevent a POIS onset and even after O I felt just like usually. Particularly I didn’t develop any bloodshot eyes, but this was probably the most it did. Gut issues were weak-moderately better, specifically stool consistency was better, but the burning pain remained usual. I couldn’t notice a particular anti-depressive effect and other symptoms were also average. I didn’t notice any side-effects either. I feel I can give it a moderate score for now.

Willow bark tea (Salicis cortex) [2 tablespoon of herb boiled in 1.2 liter water]: I drank daily 3-4 cups  and had an O. I could definitely feel myself better from it. I can’t say the change was profound though. The benefit was felt mostly on pre- and post-O mornings, as I was more relaxed and felt less depressed, however I couldn’t feel a distinct anti-depressive effect during the daytime. It makes sleeping easier at least. Gut issues were possibly weak-moderately better, but the burning pain was still felt. The eyes were not particularly better and it only reduced bloodshot eyes a little at the peak of its effect, so I still developed bloodshot eyes moderately after the O event. Morning photophobia was passing, so rather average. Muscle fatigue seemed average, although I didn’t work much at the time. I couldn’t note any side-effects, particulary not heart issues, which is a great thing considering my problems with Aspirin. Though I clearly felt myself better in the mornings, but other symptoms were rather general, so I can only give it a moderate score.

Lady's mantle tea (Alchemilla xanthochlora) [2 tablespoon of herb made with 1 liter water]: I tested it only one day by drinking 3 cups and did not have an O. I did not experience any considerable change, so I decided to not test it further. The eyes remained weakly bloodshot as usual and gut issues also appeared mostly unchanged. I also felt some weak discomfort in the groin area and possibly of the urinary tract, but urination seemed normal (usually abnormal) and POIS was not enhanced at least. Based on this I put it into the ineffective category.

Iceland moss tea (Lichen islandicus) [3 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I only drank 1.5 cup of the tea, but decided to skip on it as it seemed pointless. Interestingly not long after the first cup I developed some symptoms that was the opposite it was indicated to treat like coughing and some pain in the mouth. Later I also had some transient stomach burning and developed some moderate bloodshot eyes in both one, although it was not exactly clear if it was due to a non-protective effect or some direct induction. This was in the afternoon and I still decided to drink another half a cup before going to sleep. Somewhat interestingly in the morning I felt a little better and gut issues were a little better, though the eyes were about averagely bloodshot and photophobic. Furthermore I had a nasal congestion with reduced rhinitis which may indicate some beneficial effect. Other symptoms were rather usual though, so I can’t say that Iceland moss makes POIS worse, however its benefit also couldn’t justify its regular usage, so I put this in the mixed category.

Mullein tea (Verbasci folium) [2 tablespoon of herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I drank daily 4 cups for two days without an O. On the first day I noticed some minor improvement in mood and gut issues seemed a little better, however eye symptoms were rather average. In the morning I did not notice much improvement, although drank 1.5 cups before going to sleep. On the second day I was exposed to some exercise intolerance and one of the eyes become really painfully bloodshot. Photophobia was also torturing me as usual. Lymphatic issues and muscle fatigue seemed average, so practically unchanged. While mullein may have some benefit it is certainly not considerable, so I can only give it a weak score. Retrospectively it may be a little better, if an infection was really messing up the test.

Spearmint tea (Menthae crispae folium) [2 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]:
I drank two cups and while it seemed somewhat beneficial for gut issues, my eye issues remained really terrible which made me realize that it can’t be simply POIS acting up. There were also some people in my vicinity who had flu-like symptoms, so I was pretty sure that I got infected with covid again. In the next week I used a lot of well proven supplements combined and they still couldn’t ameliorate the brutally bloodshot left eye. The burning gut pain was also enhanced even though I had no sexual activity and ate nothing that could justify it. Interestingly I had no other symptoms of an infection, but this is the only rational explanation I can find. At least spearmint seemed somewhat beneficial, but I will probably have to retest it sometime for a more accurate rating.

Deep red grape pure, fresh juice: I drank about a liter per day for two days (about 3-4 cups a few hours apart) and had an O. It was most helpful for my eye issue as it could certainly make and keep them clearer. Gut issues were only a little better and I also had some mild diarrhea as this quantity is probably too much at once. It helped my eyes even when faced with exercise intolerance, so the benefit was still greater. This was a one time seasonal stuff, so it can’t be used regularly, still it was an interesting experience. My score for it is moderate.

Jujube [raw dried fruit; Rd: 10-15 g (about 2 pieces)]: I made teas with 4 pieces (20-25g). When used alone jujube seemed to have about a weak-moderate benefit on both eye and gut issues. Otherwise the overall feeling was usual. Then I made a combination tea of jujube (4 pieces), cardamom (5 pieces) and 30 pieces of Goji berry and had an O. Fortunately I did not develop any significant bloodshot eyes after the O, although the next morning felt close to average (e.g. regular photophobia) and gut issues also persisted. Breast lymph nodes also seemed smaller than usual, although I don’t check them too often, so it may have been circumstantial. I would say that the combination tea had about a moderate effect, which isn’t that much, but further combinations may prove better results. The taste of jujube is somewhat reminiscent to date palm fruit in my opinion and the tea tasted somewhat like coffee cherry fruit tea. I don’t actually know if this indicates anything in composition, but could be interesting to consider.

Bergamot (Citrus bergamia) [500 mg fruit extract per capsule with standardized 25 % flavonoids content; Rd: 1]: I took 2 per day without an O. I expected something more from Bergamot, but it wasn’t terrific. It had about a weak effect on the eyes and probably a weak-moderate on gut issues. My estimation is that short-term it has about a weak or weak-moderate benefit.

Suma Root (also Brazilian ginseng) (Pfaffia paniculata) [400 mg per capsule; Rd:1-2]:
I took two caps per day and had an O. This is another aphrodisiac that proved quite beneficial. I can’t say that it solved everything, but it certainly felt as one of the better stuff. Objectively gut issues appeared moderately good, although flatulence was also a little excessive at times. Eye issues were weak-moderately better. Sometimes my general low mood also appeared better. I can’t say that suma would be fantastic, but still really feels like it has a kind of positive impact on POIS. Its efficacy is possibly similar to Giloy. I haven’t experienced any outright side-effects, but its long-term applicability is questionable.
I forgot to check earlier, but the active compounds of suma root are beta-ecdysterone, saponins pfaffosides and allantoin. Now I can say that I have really experienced a particular odor reminiscent of ecdysteone and it is probably the most active compound.

Pot marigold tea (Calendulae flos) [2 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I drank 3 cups daily for 2 days without an O. I have used this one in creams for a long time, but it only recently occurred to me that a tea can be also made from it. I found it to have quite a good anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, although it was not perfect, but to about a moderate degree. It was less effective for eye issues and other problems though. For now I would give it a moderate score.

Spearmint tea retest: As I had some kind of infection last time I felt the need to retest this. Spearmint certainly has a positive effect. It could make eye issues better, however this was rather short-lived. Gut issues were also better maybe to a weak-moderate level. Its benefit is weak-moderate by my estimation.

Smallflower hairy willowherb tea (Epilobii herba) [2 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I drank 3-4 cups daily for 2 days without an O. As I said before I used it in the past as a somewhat effective POIS treatment, but after a while it became less effective. Based on my current trial I found it only weakly effective. It is true though that even in the past I used it combined with lemon balm, so its individual effect wasn’t too great even then. By the way it is a traditional remedy for prostatic issues and the most probable way it helps is the inhibition of CYP7B1 which could theoretically increase androstanediols.

White horehound tea (Marrubii herba) [2 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I consumed 3 cups daily for two days without an O. I drank its tea a few times in the previous years and even then I noticed its benefit on gut issues. My current trial also proved a similar experience. It was mostly beneficial for gut issues where it has about a moderate-good effect. Other issues were less reduced. Bloodshot eyes were about weak-moderately better, but not especially so. I think I can give it a strong moderate score, though my general low mood was perpetual as usual. Its tea is somewhat bitter in taste, but to a tolerable level at least. Retrospectively I noticed that the dose I used is too high as tea made from 1-2 teaspoons of herb is recommended daily and I took about thrice the amount for two days, however no issues occurred such like the indicated irregular heartbeat.

Horsemint tea (Menthae longifoliae herba) [2 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I drank 3 cups daily for 2 days without an O. My experience with horsemint was much similar to spearmint. Their efficacy appears to be about the same, so I can give it a weak-moderate rating. I have to note though that I had some heart pain at one time, although I am uncertain if it was rather caused by some food interaction, even so using spearmint may be a safer choice.

Allegra [120 mg fexofenadine per pill; Rd: 1]: I took daily two pills and had an O. I tried it for one day several month ago and it didn’t appear useful, but I think I also ate something bad at the time. So now I did some revaluation and found that fexofenadine indeed has a positive effect. On the pre-O day the eyes definitely became clearer and felt better and was more aware the next morning. I had a low libido during masturbation and had a hard time cuming, although this happens from time-to-time with other stuff as well and I can’t make conclusions based on only one event. Post-O the eyes remained clearer for a while, but by evening the bloodshotness broke through the protective effect. On the next day the morning dose once again helped to make the eyes clearer, however the eyes were quite photophobic and painful nevertheless. Rhinitis was also reduced a bit and this time without nasal congestion, though some irritation still remained. It wasn’t that good for gut issues, but at least a little effective still. Even though I felt a little more aware in the mornings, I couldn’t experience a distinct anti-depressive effect and felt the waves of somnolence. I also had a few attacks of heart ache and suspect it as a possible side-effect, especially after drinking coffee, which may imply a negative interaction. It also felt like Allegra put some strain on my body and feels more like it fights my problems on a symptomatic level, rather than at its core. At first I thought I may be able to give Allegra a good rating, however based on my post-O experience I can only judge it as moderately beneficial.

Yellow toadflax tea (Linaria vulgaris) [2 tablespoon of the herb added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I drank 3-4 cups for two days without an O. I could not find much of an effect on the eyes, but it may have about a weak-moderate on gut issues. It did not have a clear anti-depressive effect, however I think it may have made me a bit more aware and the mornings felt less hazy. I also didn’t experience any side-effects short-term, but it is clearly not the most effective herbal tea. For now I would give it a weak score.

Claritin (loratadine) [10 mg per pill]: I had an O and took 2 pills on that day, but only one on the other days. I expected something better form loratadine, so I was quite disappointed when a rather bad POIS episode developed after the O. It was rather useless for bloodshot eyes contrary to fexofenadine and cetirizine. Rhinitis may have been a little better, but not significantly and on the first day after O photophobia and depression was also rather strong. At least gut issues appeared weak-moderately better, though on the first morning I had a smaller diarrhea right after the morning coffee, which is a possible side-effect of taking too much on one day. Once again sexual desire was low during masturbation and it was a little more difficult to cum, however it was still better than with fexofenadine and it did not feel like it put such a strain on the body. Nevertheless its poor efficacy only earns it a weak score and makes it an unlikely choice for my treatment.

Rooibos vanilla tea [2 teabags added to 1.2 liter of hot water]: I drank 4 cups, but only on one day and without an O. While I could see some benefit on gut issues it wasn’t that significant and eye issues also remained relatively unchanged. I guess it is about as good as black tea, but it is unlikely that either of them would solve my POIS problem on its own. Thus I give it a weak rating.

Cetirizine retest [10 mg per pill; Rd:1]: I took 3 pills per day without an O. I wanted to see its effect compared to the other antihistamines. In the past I used it with some success, but alone it still can’t change my POIS considerably. This time I couldn’t see much benefit on eye issues and it probably only helps weakly with that. It had a more positive effect on gut issues maybe even to a good degree. Its effectiveness may be comparable to cat’s claw unless I am mistaken. Sometimes my mood also appeared a little lifted, but other times not particularly so or even got a little headache. While Cetirizine on its own is not terribly effective, but still this one appears to have the least side-effects among the antihistamines I have tried and consider it a good addition to a stack. My current rating for its benefit is moderate.

Marshmallow root tea (Althaeae radix) [2 tablespoons of herb put in 1 liter of cold water for at least 6 hours]: I drank 3 cups for two days and had an O. This is also something that helps a little, but not too considerably. It had about a weak effect on the eyes and a moderate on gut issues. My estimation is that it helps about weak-moderately.

Guggul (Commiphora mukul) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2x1-2]: I took daily 4 capsules and had two Os on consecutive days. I expected something good from guggul and it turned out to be so, however I can’t say that it is terribly effective though. It was quite apparent that I felt myself better on both post O mornings. However I could not experience a distinct anti-depressive effect during the days, but at least in the mornings I was certainly more aware than usual. Morning photophobia was also reduced a little bit due to this. Unfortunately it wasn’t so good for the eye bloodshotness problem though. I think it was only weakly beneficial in this regard. Gut issues appeared to be quite better at least, possibly to a good extent. It also reduced rhinitis somewhat. My guess is that individually guggul has a solid good effect, thus it may be a good addition to a stack, especially with something that helps with eye issues better. It is also worth noting that guggul is specifically indicated to have a positive effect on sexual health.

Lucuma (Pouteria lucuma) [fruit powder; Rd: 1 teaspoon, other sources: 1 tablespoon]: I consumed daily 5 teaspoons without an O. Eye symptoms remained generally unchanged during the test and I think it has about a weak or weak-moderate effect on this. Gut issues appeared somewhat better possibly to a weak-moderate or moderate level. Otherwise my mood was rather baseline and couldn’t notice anything out of the ordinary, so I would give it a weak-moderate score. It appears to be somewhat abundant in niacin and contains some flavonoids, which may make it a good choice. Lucuma is also considered an alternative sweetener and its combination with other sugar substitutives like glycine and fructose may deserve some thought.

Maqui (Aristotelia chilensis) [berry powder; Rd:0.5-1 teaspoon]: I took half teaspoon worth 3 times per day for two days without an O. It was not bad for the eyes, but not much good either. On gut issues I experienced weaker mixed effects. On the second morning I felt myself a bit more relaxed, however bloodshot eyes were also increased then. As a possible side-effect I often felt the beating of the pulse in my back. It wasn’t any painful, just a bit unpleasant. Altogether I can’t say too much good about it as maqui has either a weak positive or mixed-effect. Maqui is also a rich source of anthocyanins just like aronia and it may only exert its positive effect on a longer-term.

Arjuna (Terminalia arjuna) [250 mg bark extract per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took daily 3 capsules and had an O. It could quite evidently clear the eyes about moderately. Bloodshotness or rather thicker red veins would still occur, but the white of the eye certainly seemed clearer. Gut issues also seemed about moderately reduced. I also felt more relaxed than usual, maybe even a bit too much and I was a little detached. By the way this one is also considered as an aphrodisiac, although I couldn’t experience an increased libido or endurance, but this is difficult to judge based on only one occasion. Allergic rhinitis also appeared somewhat reduced this time without apparent nasal congestion. I feel I can give it a moderate-good rating and it may come close to Ashwagandha in effectiveness. As a Terminalia species it is also somewhat comparable to Triphala.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on December 29, 2022, 11:04:50 AM

The short version can be found here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40769#msg40769

I also added some new food items in blue.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40400#msg40400

Autophagy renew [165 mg luteolin (Japanese sophora flower buds) and 10 mg piperlongumine (long pepper root) per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took it for 3 days with a 1-2-1 schedule without an O. Well this was certainly beneficial, but not exactly strong. It could make the eyes clearer, but when the push was stronger it would still get bloodshot to some extent, so I can only give it a weak-moderate rating for this. Gut issues were also about moderately better, but it wasn’t feeling that good. After drinking a lot of coffee I developed a moderate chest inflammation, so it couldn’t help with that. Rhinitis seemed somewhat better though. When faced with exercise intolerance it could partially protect the eyes, but muscle fatigue felt rather usual. As a comparison I think even Relora or Chinese skullcap were slightly better in their acute effects. As a treatment it doesn’t seem cost effective, however it may be a possible cure, so I wouldn’t necessarily contraindicate its use. My score for it now is a weaker moderate effect.

Korean Red Ginseng Root (Panax ginseng) [400 mg per capsule; Rd:2-3] I took 3 capsules in one day without an O. Of course I fell prey to the marketing ploy as this is just regular ginseng. It was certainly beneficial, but not more than the other ginseng product. On the eyes it had about a moderate benefit and it was certainly more beneficial than Autophagy renew that I had tried previously. Gut issues also seemed about moderately better. The moderate chest pain still persisted with ginseng, so it also couldn’t abate that. My mood was relatively alright, but I couldn’t experience a distinct lift. In the morning I also felt like I had a little higher blood pressure, although I neglected to measure it, but dosage may need to be tempered. I still think it has about a stronger moderate effect.

Milk thistle-artichoke-dandelion capsules [In one capsule (540 mg): 60 mg milk thistle + 200 mg artichoke + 190 mg dandelion root+ 55 mg fenugreek + 35 mg curcuma; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 per day and had an O. Somewhat surprisingly it turned out better than I had anticipated. Even after O the eyes remained relatively safe and while the eyes were not crystal clear they were certainly a lot better than usual. Gut issues were quite better to about a good degree, however the urine was still burning as usual.
It is marketed to support proper digestive functioning, which it does really. Its overall efficacy seemed to be above of milk thistle oil, however it also lacked a particular anti-depressive effect.

Butea superba root [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2 per day for two days and had an O.
This one felt relatively similar to ginseng in my opinion. It could protect the eyes even after O from getting too bloodshot and they remained relatively clear. Gut issues also appeared relatively better, although not to the extent of the digestive capsules I had tried before. I also couldn’t notice a particular anti-depressive effect, however in the first morning I also didn’t feel so foggy and I was relatively well. The chest inflammation also subsided by this time, although I am not certain how much butea superba contributed in this. I also slept quite well on both nights, which may indicate some relaxing effect. Even though butea superba is considered an aphrodisiac I couldn’t exactly experience this and both libido and endurance seemed quite average. Long-term usage may also decrease testosterone and cause other problems, so ginseng seems a safer choice. 

Celery Parsley seed oil (Petroselinum crispum) [cold pressed]: I consumed with 3 teaspoons on bread daily for two days without an O. Unfortunately it was rather useless for bloodshot eyes as I had almost averagely bloodshot eyes while taking it. Nevertheless it seemed to have about a moderate-good anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, although passage also seemed slower than usual. There were also times when I felt like it had some anti-depressive effect, which was rather nice. Rhinitis also seemed somewhat weaker. However the mornings felt rather usual and photophobia persisted. I also slept somewhat poorly both nights, so it may be not the best thing to take before going to sleep. I am also unsure about the dosage and the amount I took is probably more than one should regularly consume. My general feel on it is a solid moderate effect, even though the bloodshot eyes took away most of its charm. It could be worth mentioning that celery seed counts as an aphrodisiac for women. I am sorry for the mix-up, but I am not a native speaker and this may happen.

(Sweet) Almond oil (Prunus amygdalus dulcis) [100 %, cold pressed]: I consumed with 3 teaspoons on bread daily for two days without an O. It had no particular use on the eyes, maybe only a minimal benefit at the peak of its effect. However gut issues appeared about weak-moderately or maybe even moderately better. I don’t think it had any anti-depressive activity and other symptoms were also rather general. As a possible side-effect on the second day I had some spurt of hiccups. My judgment on it is weak-moderate. It has to be noted though that almonds and also its oil is supposedly a good source of beta sitosterol and oleic acid. Furthermore it is indicated to have a positive effect on sexual health.

Sarsaparilla root (Smilax aristolochiifolia) [450 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took it for two days (3,2) and had an O. It has somewhat of a better effect, although with some unpleasant side-effects. It had about a moderate effect on gut issues, however its effect on the eyes was relatively good. It felt a bit forced, but they were relatively devoid of the bloodshotness problem. I had the O on the first day which was probably too soon and I couldn’t experience the aphrodisiac effect as libido and endurance were rather average. On the second day (post-O day) I had more than average work (about 8 hours) and I developed a relatively bad exercise intolerance. By the end of work I had a moderate tension headache and felt nauseous with a little urge to vomit, surprisingly though the eyes remained quite clear. The headache soon resolved after taking a half pill of Quarelin and a hot bath. I need to note that I often develop a similar headache due to exercise intolerance, however I hardly ever felt so nauseous like now and normally the eyes are also much more bloodshot, which indicates a particular shift in exercise intolerance. At night I still took a further capsule and in the morning I felt relatively well with a weak head tension still present. At the same time photophobia was relatively weak and the eyes quite clear. Gut issues also felt better. All-in-all a lesser dose may have a better safety profile and those who don’t do physical work may find it more useful.

Pure oregano oil (Origanum vulgare) [1 drop contains 30 mg wild oregano essential oil with 24 mg (80%) carvacrol; Rd: 2 drops]: I took six drops daily (1st: 3-2-1; 2nd: 2-2-2) (about 144 mg carvacrol per day) for two days and had an O. I had my reservation about oregano as the spice itself seems to often give me bad eye symptoms. Fortunately it wasn’t so with this particular product. Actually it appeared to have some protective effect on the eyes after O, although it was less apparent if it just kept or made them better. Gut issues were also better, but not too much. So regular symptoms were not so much better, however I felt I could move around more easily and the legs felt less fatigued and painful, so it may be partially effective for exercise intolerance. I had the O on the first evening, which may have been too soon, but during masturbation the penis felt less sensitized and it was more difficult too keep the erection. Sexual desire also appeared low, but at least endurance seemed better and it was more difficult to achieve the culmination. I don’t think it had a clear anti-depressive effect, but I was not too depressed at least. As a possible side-effect tinnitus sounded intensified a few hours after intake, but blood pressure once again wasn’t really high. Nevertheless the dose I used is probably too high for regular consumption as at one time the tinnitus felt really bad, but the normal dose should be quite safe I think. Altogether I would say that it has about a moderate-good effect. It is certainly not spectacular, but if it is considered as a part of a possible cure than its consumption is certainly worthwhile.

Sesame oil (Sesamum indicum) [100 %, cold pressed]: I consumed with 3 teaspoons on bread daily for two days without an O. I think it was rather useless for bloodshot eyes, but I don’t think it induced the symptom. At least gut issues appeared relatively better, maybe to about a moderate degree. However whenever I took a leak the urine seemed to burn a bit more than usual, which may implicate some negative effect. Other symptoms did not appear to deviate much from baseline, although rhinitis may have been a bit reduced and I also slept relatively well. My score for sesame oil is weak-moderate in a short-term trial.

Fenugreek extract (Trigonella foenum-graceum) [200 mg fenugreek extract per capsule with 50 % saponins content (100mg); Rd: 2]: I took 3 caps daily for two days without an O. I meant to give fenugreek another chance to prove itself, but unfortunately it keeps disappointing me. It was rather useless for eye symptoms and only about weak-moderately beneficial for gut issues. Needless to say other symptoms like depression also appeared unaffected. Actually in the first morning I felt a little better, however on the second morning it was practically average even though the previous day I did not have any sexual or physical activity. As a possible side-effect I had some abdominal pain on the left side, but the burning pain was weakly reduced, so it was not caused by that. I think I can only give it a weak or weak-moderate score as it did not appear any better than sesame oil.

Bio-Fisetin [44.5 mg per capsule containing a blend of 18% fisetin (8 mg) [from wax tree extract (stem)] and 35% galactomannans (15 mg) [from fenugreek (seeds)]; Rd:1]: I took two capsules daily for two days without an O. It proved to be better than fenugreek capsules at least. Gut issues only appeared about weak-moderately better, however the bloodshot eye problem definitely reduced about moderately. Otherwise I can’t say that I felt terribly better and I don’t think it had a particular effect on depression. On the first day a few hours after taking the first capsule I had a weaker diarrhea which I think was due to the combined effect of Fisetin and exercise intolerance, however afterwards I had no such problem with continued consumption, although it was also a weekend then without much physical activity. On the third day I took 2 caps of Fisetin along with 2 caps of fenugreek (morning-evening) and had an O. Interestingly I did not develop any particularly strong acute POIS symptoms besides the generally present chronic symptoms and it was much like I did not even have an O. In this regard it may be similar to ginseng and oregano oil, but further tests would be required to confirm this. Nevertheless Fisetin is probably not the best acute treatment especially when its price is also taken into consideration. However as a senolytic agent it could still play some role in a curative effort.

Olive oil (pomace, sansa oil): I consumed with 3 teaspoons on bread daily for two days without an O. It proved to be rather useless for eye issues as the effect of Fisetin waned, so emerged slowly the bloodshot eyes again. I think at least it had a positive effect on gut issues, possibly weak or weak-moderate, but the testing time was too short to accurately judge this. Nevertheless it was certainly not of a significant help otherwise. It is true that this is only a lower quality cooking oil, so extra virgin oil may prove better later, but I doubt that it would make a very great difference. I can only score it as weak for now.

Omega-3 fish oil (Norway cod liver oil) [5 ml contains: 1.2 g fatty acids of which 0.4 g is EPA and 0.6 g is DHA, vitamin E 3 mg (25%), vitamin A 250 ug (31%), vitamin D 10 ug (200%); Rd: 5 ml]: I consumed with 3 teaspoons either on bread or sublingually daily for two days without an O, but masturbated once. Similarly to many of the other oils this one also proved rather useless for eye symptoms. At least gut issues seemed to be moderately better, but this was only becoming apparent by the second morning, so fish oil probably needs to be taken for a longer time before it shows its benefit. As a possible side-effect I developed a weaker headache on the second morning, but this passed on its own by late afternoon, even though I took another dose of fish oil then, so it may be not related to its consumption. At least no heart burn occurred which is a great relief as I always had this problem with fish oil capsules in the past. On its own fish oil is certainly no wonder for me, but I could imagine adding it to a stack in a smaller quantity for long-time usage. My score for it is weak-moderate.

Lotus seed tea (Nelumbo nucifera) [Rd: tea made of 15 seeds]: I cooked 20 seeds with about 1 liter of water and drank this amount daily for 3 days and had an O. I also ate a few of the cooked seeds, but not all. While it was not spectacular it certainly proved relatively beneficial. My eyes were about moderately better and in this regard it was definitely better than the Omega-3 fish oil I tried before. Gut issues only appeared about weak-moderately better, although I may have eaten something that was a little bad, so I am not completely sure. I don’t think I noticed any anti-depressive effect either. However I noticed that I could urinate a little easier than usual. Although the burning pain could be felt from time-to-time on the second morning I could feel a definite reduction when taking a leak. Libido seemed to be a bit increased and I think endurance was also a little bit better, not like it is easy to judge based on one occasion. My final verdict is a stronger moderate action as it could somewhat prevent POIS onset, but on its own it is still inadequate.
It is worth to note that the included recipe recommends to add 15 pieces of lotus seed, 6 pieces of jujube and one teaspoon of Goji berry to half a liter of water and then to boil it for 15-20 minutes and optionally serve with honey. Unfortunately I ran out of the other ingredients for the time being (my mom liked them), but it could be still interesting to try them combined.

Corn germ oil (100%, cold pressed): I consumed with 3 teaspoons on bread daily for two days and had  an O. It did not seem to have any particular effect on eye issues, however it had some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, which may have been about weak-moderate. Other symptoms were as usual, so I can only give it a weak score as a remedy.

Argan oil (100%, cold pressed): On the first day I took with (1/2+1+1) teaspoons. In the evening I felt some sporadic and transient stabbing pain, which I thought may be due to a side-effect, so I reduced the dose and only took half a teaspoon three times the following day and a similar problem did not occur. On this day I also had an O. Fortunately it seemed to have a relatively good anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues as the burning pain was quite noticeably reduced, although stool consistency wasn’t that much better, so the relief was about moderate-good. Unfortunately eye issues were not particularly improved or maybe only to a weak degree. I think I also noticed a weaker diuretic effect as I could urinate a little easier and the urine was burning a bit less than usual. I don’t think it a had any anti-depressive effect and muscle fatigue also appeared rather usual. I guess I can give it a moderate score, although long time applicability is in question as I couldn’t find proper dosage information.

Saffron + lycopene capsules [saffron: Spanish, coupe quality; lycopene: 10 mg of lycopene/lycopin per capsule from extract; Rd: 2]: I got some new brands that I haven’t tried before, but I didn’t want to waste my time testing them separately, so I combined them. I took 3 lycopene caps along with saffron tea (about 15 stigmas per tea) every time for two days without an O. At first it quite evidently helped in clearing the eyes, however I couldn’t experience a particular anti-depressive effect. Unfortunately I also ate a pizza with ketchup and bell pepper and that messed me up on the first day. Nevertheless gut issues appeared somewhat better, but the first morning felt quite average with regular photophobia and a weak depression. On the second morning somewhat disappointingly I still couldn’t experience an anti-depressive effect. Gut issues felt more evidently better and eye issues remained alright. However I went out that night and drank a few soft drinks (two bottles of ginger ale (spiritless)) and ate quite an amount of salted nuts. By the time I got home I developed a moderate headache and the eyes appeared more bloodshot. I still took the timely dose of the combination and went to bed. In the morning I woke up with the headache still persisting or even worse, which is uncommon as sleeping normally helps with headaches. I also had a weak stomach ache and felt nauseous which practically never happens normally, but at least I did not vomit. After taking half a pill of painkiller and sleeping a few more hours these issues mostly resolved. The eyes also seemed more bloodshot in the second morning and the mood was average otherwise. Gut issues at least appeared about moderately better and I also had a reduced rhinitis, which I also noticed the previous day. I am not completely sure if the issues were caused by something I ate or the supplements, but an overdosage is a certain possibility, so while these supplements clearly help, it is not a good idea to take them in great amounts.
I am also disappointed at the lack of anti-depressive effect, although I have to note that both my mother and grandmother tried this specific lycopene product and they claimed that they could see better which in my opinion must be an anti-depressive effect like I had experienced before with the other products, so the problem seems to be circumstantial. The Spanish saffron appeared to consist of longer stigmas, however it wasn’t so deep red as the Iranian one. I don’t think their effectiveness was necessarily different, but I also can’t rule it out. Nevertheless this combination clearly has about a good effect on POIS, still taking only half of this dose seems more reasonable if anyone decides to try such a combination to avoid possible overdosage.

Mesquite powder (Prosopis pallida): I took with 4 teaspoons daily for two days without an O. This one seemed rather useless for bloodshot eyes, but gut issues felt somewhat better. Well it appeared a little useful a least, but certainly did not change POIS significantly. I can only give it a weak score.
Mesquite besides being a natural sweetener also appears to be a good source of galactomannans. As fenugreek is also a good source of them this may worth some comparison. Not like I had too much luck with fenugreek, but Bio-Fisetin contained them in an extract form and they appear to be responsible for the synergistic effect with Fisetin.

Baobab powder (Adansonia digitata): I took with 4 teaspoons daily for two days with an O. It had about a weak-moderate effect on bloodshot eyes as they were better even before O and after O they only became slightly worse. Gut issues also appeared about moderately better. So it was not spectacular, but had a certainly noticeable benefit. Besides this libido and its recovery also seemed better. I think it deserves a moderate score at least.
The packaging claims baobab to be a good source of vitamin C, magnesium and calcium, furthermore some studies found it to be rich in sterols like beta-sitosterol. Well besides my own experience it is an anecdotal aphrodisiac which is likely true. Baobab may not solve POIS, but I think it could be used well on a daily basis as a nutritional source for sexual health.

Shiitake powder (Lentinula edodes) [Rd: 1-3 g or up to half tsp 2 times a day]: I took with half teaspoons 4 times per day (2 tsp per day) for two days without an O. Unfortunately my experience was not much different compared to the lyophilized slices. The eye issues remained rather small, but it did not feel like it actually helped much and the morning photophobia was also rather usual. Gut issues were also only slightly better than usual. By the end of the second day once again I developed a kind of mild discomfort in the throat, which makes this a likely side-effect. The previously used baobab powder certainly felt better, so shiitake may not be the best treatment choice for me unless there are long-term benefits. I can only give a weak score for its acute effectiveness.

Ajwain, ajowan caraway (Trachyspermum ammi): I made carom tea (cold tea) with half a teaspoon and also consumed at least half of the seeds as well three times daily (1.5 tsp per day) for two days and also had an O. I expected something major from this, but it wasn’t really remarkable. On the first day I couldn’t note any major difference and on the second day I had an O. My eyes did not become much worse which was a bit surprising. I also developed a weak chest inflammation, but that was also rather controlled. At first the gut issues appeared better, but later the burning pain seemed more intense than usual. Unfortunately I can’t exclude the possibility that this was due to some sensitizing food I ate.  Nevertheless it was clearly no major help, so I will put this in the weak category for now.
It is worth to note that ajwain may rebalance some hormonal issues, but mostly in women and it was also found to cause oligospermia in men. One probably needs to take it for a longer time for this to happen and of course this may not actually resolve any POIS related problems.

Coriander seeds (Coriandrum sativum): On the first day I made cold teas by soaking the seed for about six hours and then consuming the whole stuff with the seeds as well. I can’t say I had any significant reaction to it though. I had a night shift that day and I developed quite bloodshot eyes as usual as exercise intolerance is always worse during the nights. By morning I also developed a headache, but it is not clear if this was due to coriander or the exercise intolerance, although I would opt for the latter. In the next one and a half day I made hot teas (one tablespoon in about 3-4 cups of water), but only drank them without the seeds and I also had an O in the afternoon of the second day. My eyes were relatively alright right after O and the headache actually resolved around this time on its own, however a few hours later POIS still kicked in and the eyes became averagely bloodshot, which remained so throughout the following day which makes me think that coriander is rather ineffective in this regard. Gut issues appeared about weak-moderately better at least as the burning pain felt a little reduced. Even though I haven’t felt an anti-depressant effect I was relatively lively during the third day, which may imply some positive effect. I also have to note that semen volume seemed somewhat reduced, but otherwise normal (not burning), which might have been a result of too frequent emissions recently or a delayed effect of ajwain. Coriander is actually considered a stimulant of spermatogenesis, so it is a less likely cause, but similarly so this effect may need a longer time to develop. Altogether though I can only give coriander a weak rating in an acute setting.

Fennel seed caps (Foeniculum vulgare) [480 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 caps per day for two days and had an O. I think this was a rather good find as fennel clearly made me feel better. The eyes were about moderately better, while gut issues were possibly to a good degree. I could also breathe easier as rhinitis was reduced. In the mornings I felt clearer in the head, although the anti-depression was not so distinct and my mood was still low as usual. I had the O on the first day and in the next morning I took two caps at once. I had a physically more demanding work that they, but still the eyes remained quite alright, which shows its benefit even in the face of exercise intolerance. Taking two caps certainly induced more flatulence as a side-effect, but this seems unavoidable if I want to get any better. I think it certainly deserves a good score for now. Fennel is also reported to be an aphrodisiac that can increase libido, however one needs to take note of its estrogenic effects as well.

Caraway, meridian fennel, Persian cumin (Carum carvi) [Rd: up to 1 tablespoon]: I made hot teas by adding 1 tablespoon of cumin to about 1.2 liter of water. I drank 4 cups daily for two days, but I did not have an O. Unfortunately it did not give me any significant reaction. On the first day I had 2 cases of spontaneous erections, which probably indicates libido enhancement, however this may have been a delayed effect of the fennel caps as well. In the two days my mood was as low as usual. It may have had a little positive effect on the eyes as they remained relatively alright, however I couldn’t see them distinctly getting better. Gut issues also appeared a little better (weakly or weak-moderately), but it was certainly not on par with the previously tested fennel. Thus I can only give it a weak rating, but at least it seems rather safe to eat even in a greater amount.

(Sweet) Fennel seed tea: I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of fennel seed to about a liter of water. I mostly consumed the tea and only a small part of the seeds. I only took it for one day as I just wanted to see if there is a difference compared to the capsules. About two hours after the first cup I think I felt some anti-depressive effect, but this did not appear later. It also did not appear to be as useful as the caps. The eyes remained relatively alright, but I couldn’t see a positive tendency. In the morning I felt rather usually, though gut issues appeared somewhat better.
Actually I had already tried sweet fennel a few years ago. As I remember the first time it resulted in a rather strong flatulence, which made me think that it must be something bad. Later when I wanted to confirm this I tried it again, but surprisingly I felt rather well the next day which left me perplexed at the time. Nevertheless I have generally avoided it since then which was probably a bad idea. Well the tea’s effectiveness does not appear to be very consistent, but still could be a better choice than being down with POIS. I can’t exactly evaluate it properly with such a short test, but subjectively I think sweet fennel tea has about a moderate effect.

Guinea grains (pepper), grains of paradise (Aframomum melegueta): I made a hot tea by adding half a tablespoon of grains to about a liter of water. I drank it in three portions and also consumed all of the grains. I had to eat some sandwiches along to cope with the pungent taste. I only tested it one day without an O. Guinea grain is said to be related to ginger and some of its compounds are similar. I usually have trouble with pungent stuff, but ginger proved to be of some benefit. This one gave me no significant reaction, which may be a good thing in itself. Eye issues appeared slightly worse at first, but later they appeared slightly better. Something similar was true for gut issues. By evening I felt a more pronounced itchy irritation at the anus, but by morning this resolved and some weak anti-inflammatory effect could be felt. Needless to say other symptoms were mostly usual, but at least I did not develop a chest inflammation, which may make this a safer option for me compared to black pepper. The final score is a weak benefit, but it still shifts POIS in an undesired way as well.

Voatsiperifery pepper (Piper borbonense): I made a hot tea by adding half a tablespoon of grains to about a liter of water. I drank it in three portions and also consumed all of the grains. I only tested it one day without an O, but still masturbated some. I wanted to see if I have any bad reaction, but fortunately it did not seem so. I don’t think it had any effect on the eyes, as after masturbation one of the eyes became averagely bloodshot and remained so. Interestingly it appeared to have a weak-moderate anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. Still in the morning I felt rather averagely and also developed a slight headache, which may have been an after-effect of the masturbation. Tinnitus also appeared a bit louder both in the evening and in the morning. Well at least this kind of pepper appears relatively safe to consume and possibly has a minimal benefit as well.

(Canned) Jackfruit (Artocarpus heterophyllus Lam) [net weight: 565 g (12 pieces)]: I ate the whole can in one day in 3 portions and had an O. Well it started out quite alright. I think I noticed a weak benefit on the eyes during the morning-afternoon and it also appeared to have some noticeable anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. However later I made some circumstantial mistakes and had a quite strong POIS onset. For one I was edging for quite a long time and the O happened late evening by which time I usually start to feel myself more ill even without acute POIS. I also skipped the usual bathing that tends to help a lot in the beginning. In the morning I still had bad bloodshot eyes and photophobia intensity reflected the acute stage. Nevertheless I wasn’t feeling myself too unwell and the mood was rather alright. Gut issues actually felt moderately better that makes me think jackfruit deserves a weak-moderate score. At least it was a delicious food to try, but as an exotic fruit it is also rather expensive, which makes it a less interesting treatment option.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Enix on December 30, 2022, 05:35:58 PM

So, the best one for eyes ?

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on December 31, 2022, 09:49:42 AM

Quote from: Enix on December 30, 2022, 05:35:58 PM

So, the best one for eyes ?

Hi Enix!

Some of the better ones were diosgenin (maca extract and wild yam, but not fenugreek), saffron, vitamin C+ (see also: triphala, camu-camu, baobab), luteolin (triphala, Autophagy renew), L-theanine, alfalfa, mangosteen, catuaba bark, chinese skullcap, damiana, yerba mate, giloy, black cohosh, lycopene, pomegranate, mastic gum, boron, arjuna, ginseng, milk thistle-artichoke-dandelion caps,  butea superba, sarsaparilla root, fisetin, lotus seed, fennel caps, myricetin (currently in testing), maybe a little less useful were resveratrol, milk thistle, honokiol (Magnolia, Relora), eyebright tea, glycine, burdock, perilla, cat’s claw, ginkgo biloba, neem, astaxanthin, chaga, andrographis, jujube, suma root.
Actually if you only consider my best and good list most of them will probably show some benefit, but there are also some from the moderately beneficial list as well. Some of their combinations may be even more useful, but adverse interactions can’t be excluded.

As I said before these are mostly short tests, so they are not necessarily reliable. The bloodshot eyes are one of my most persistent symptoms. Fortunately though they are also rather good indicators of the current POIS state. There is an evident correlation with gut issues, although this is only a general convergence and not exclusively true. After testing so many supplements I also began to see some difference in their mechanism of action. Some supplements would more evidently help in clearing my eyes, however they would still remain labile and drinking something bad like coffee or having an O would still punch through and make them bloodshot again. The one I am currently testing is myricetin and it appears to be one of the labile kind. While some other supplements would not have so clear an effect in making them better, but if an O happened they would still mostly prevent the development of more severe symptoms by stabilizing the veins. I would be hard pressed to say anything reliable about this though. Maybe you could test ginseng, dihydromyricetin (DHM), forskolin, indole-3-carbinol, goldenrod tea and see if there could be some truth to it.
Another eye symptom to consider is photophobia. I don’t often mention this, but the reason is that it is rather persistent. If I remember well I have tried four different Resveratrol products and while one of them worked spectacularly in the reduction of photophobia the rest did nothing. Also later when I bought another box of the same brand that one also had a much lesser noticeable effect. Actually as I see it photophobia is much more correlated to depression than to the bloodshot eyes. Sometimes I would have rather clear eyes and still when going to the street I would get punctured by the luminous stab. However when both depression and bloodshot eyes are reduced I would generally have less problem with brightness.

Currently I am a bit optimistic as I have just found another factor that seems to connect all the dots about my case. This actually confirms that my POIS is caused by senescence. I think this phenomenon is responsible for most human diseases really. Its origin can be very varied and depending on the tissue or organ involved it would manifest as entirely different diseases. Yet the convergence in treatment suggests a common underlying mechanism. Although interindividual differences also exist, but senescence itself is not uniform, so the efficacy of the same treatment may differ. I am going to make a post about this in a few weeks time unless I go on a lazy streak again.

Nevertheless I hope you find this information useful and just don’t forget to report about your own experiences if you find any of them useful.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on February 14, 2023, 03:43:56 AM

Myricetin bioflavonoid complex [600 mg per capsule containing 16 mg of myricetin; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules on the first day and had an O. I thought it may help in recovering the eye issues somewhat similarly as andrographis. Well surprisingly it turned out to be rather good. The eyes clearly got better on it, especially at the peak of its effect, however they were still labile as after drinking coffee or completing an O they would get messed up rather usually. On the second morning I took two caps with an hour difference and by early afternoon the white of the eye got really nice. Gut issues also appeared better to about a moderate-good degree. I had a rather strong O and somehow I also felt a little more energetic than usual. It was not exactly like oregano oil as muscle fatigue could be still felt, however I could move easier by having a bit more energy.  It also has some anti-depressive effect, although not too strong, but at times I certainly felt more aware. Similarly to resveratrol it has a soothing, relaxing effect which could imply Sirt1 activation as the causative. These flavonoids really do work, but one shouldn't expect a miracle otherwise it will only be a disappointment. This dose may be a bit too big, but I can't say I have experienced any particular side-effect. Sometime though I think I felt some minor pain around the heart, but this is not necessarily a detrimental effect. I think it deserves a good score.

Sumac spice (Rhus coriaria) [Rd: 3 g, about 1 tsp]: I put sumac in warm water and drank it for 2 days in an amount of 1-2 tsp, but without an O. It may have had a weak benefit on the eyes, but this only means that they were not particularly bad. Gut issues appeared about weak-moderately better. I think it had about a weak-moderate effect, but I am not entirely sure about its safety. I did not have time to masturbate, however at one time I tried to raise the flag, but couldn't really succeed and it also felt to be a bit limp. Well desensitization appears to be a little useful if I wanted to last longer, but it only really has any point if I actually manage to retain erection.
Sumac appeared rather anti-inflammatory to me even though a study says that it has a unique bidirectional activity that increases COX-2 expression while reducing NO formation.

Turkey tail powder (Coriolus/Trametes versicolor) [Rd: 3 g or about 1 tsp]: I took half a teaspoon (2 g) 3 times per day (6 g) for two days and 1 whole teaspoon on the last occasion and I skipped the O. The first day started out quite alright as it cleared my eyes rather well. Unfortunately in the evening I developed a moderate chest inflammation on the left side that radiated to the back. I suspect it was caused by the spicy food I ate in the afternoon, although my mom got ill by some respiratory illness the next day so latent covid can't be ruled out. Nevertheless on the second day the eyes remained rather alright until about noon when one of them began to get a little worse. I also masturbated for a short while after that which certainly did not help, but at least I had no problems with the activity itself as I felt rather normal. On the second day the chest inflammation progressively got weaker along the day, so turkey tail can be ruled out as a cause at least. It certainly helped with gut issues as well, which was possibly moderate. At first I wanted to score it as moderate-good, but after reevaluating BCAA I realized that its effect must have been more persistent than I had previously thought, so it deserves a good score at least.

BCAA [4:1:1 powder with differing flavors; Rd: up to 20 g]: I took 20 grams in one day in three portions without an O. I couldn't experience any significant change, but at least it shows a little benefit. My eyes were rather alright to begin with and they did not change at all, although I suspect BCAA did not have a considerable effect on that. Photophobia was usual and even muscle fatigue and pain appeared the same as usual. I think it had some anti-inflammatory effect on the gut issues at least, which was about weak-moderate. The strange thing is that I had underwent acute-chronic POIS phase transition the same day, which was only a fifth day after O. I suspect the involvement of turkey tail in this, but may need to retest BCAA in a more POISed state to check this. At the moment I can score it as weak-moderate. Well it may work better with long-term usage, although the amount appears a bit large for me to be used on a daily basis.
On a separate day when I felt worse I took two doses once again, but the eyes only got slightly better and once again it had some positive effect on gut issues. The previous score seems appropriate.

Citrulline malate [unflavoured powder; Rd: 2-3 g x 2]: I took about 4 g 3 times in a day (12 g) without an O. The eyes once again remained rather alright, but not so much as the previous day. Actually I also masturbated some and the bloodshot eyes increased a little, so citrulline malate only has a little or no benefit in this regard. The libido and potency (erection) also felt rather good during the masturbation. Gut issues appeared to be moderately better as well. I also tried this about a year ago and had a bad chest inflammation then, which made me hesitant to retest it, however this was most likely caused by another thing I took at the same time. The amount I took this time was also greater and still I had no such problem. I think I can give it a moderate score and may consider its addition to a regime in a smaller amount.

Punarnava extract (Boerhavia diffusa) [500 mg per capsule, Rd:2]: I took it with a 2,3 schedule for two days and had an O on the second day. I had considerable flatulence on the first day, but than I realized it was due to the biscuits I ate. The biscuits also made POIS a little worse. On the second day I was more careful with the diet then I had an O. I had more bloodshot eyes even before O, so I did not expect too much, but luckily it even got a little better shortly after O. Most likely it reached its peak efficacy at this time (about 7 hours after consumption). Later it became a little worse, but remained so and did not get out of hand, so I think it has at least a weak benefit, but it only shows as a little stabilizing effect and the eyes don't actually get better on it. Gut issues also felt somewhat better, which was probably the reason POIS did not became really bad. The libido was quite alright and I could endure to a normally long time, however the ejaculate was a little burning. As said before this appears to be an accumulating effect, so it was more likely to have been caused by the biscuits I ate the previous day or by the masturbation from the day before. I can give it a weak-moderate score and while it works somewhat I don't see any particular reason why I should have a preference in its application.

St John’s Wort tea (Hyperici herba): I made hot teas by combining 1 tablespoon of herba with about 1 liter of water and drank this amount daily for two days without an O. I also tried St John's Wort about a year ago for a day, but similarly so, it just hasn't got a great benefit on me. It really has some anti-depressive effect, however I couldn't experience it during the days, but only at nights when I woke I felt more aware than usual and yet during the days I practically had the same old low mood. The eye symptoms were also the same as usual and I just couldn't notice any particularly help with either bloodshot eyes or photophobia. It helped a little with gut issues, but not more than that. I may give it a weak-moderate score, but only due to the marginal anti-depressive effect. Taking a higher dose may help more, but I don't think it would be wise due to unpredictable side-effects.

Geranium dry extract (Geranium sanguineum) [400 per capsule containing 22% polyphenols, 25% tannins, 0.3% anthocyanins; Rd:1-2]: I took it on two consecutive days with a 1,3 schedule without an O. It apparently has a positive effect generally, however not too strong. As I see it geranium had a weak-moderate benefit on both eye and gut issues. It could only help with bloodshot eyes when the POIS push was low. It did not help with photophobia. I think I could experience a temporary anti-depressive effect about 1 hour after intake, but this was really not much. Rhinitis also seemed a little reduced. On the second evening I masturbated some and had some precum. I did not have spontaneous erection as sometimes with aphrodisiacs, but the wood felt a little more filled with blood than usual. After the masturbation one of the eyes got really bloodshot and the next morning felt rather usual. The eyes also felt a bit drier than usual at both nights. Geranium gets a weaker moderate score from me, but it is almost nothing on its own.

L-Lysine [unflavoured powder; Rd: 1 g]: I took 2 and 3.5 grams on two separate days without an O. I also tried this more than a year ago, but only saw a little benefit so I skipped on it at the time. I don't think it has a particular effect on the eyes. However it certainly has some benefit on gut issues. On the day I took the greater amount I also masturbated some which felt rather usual and symptoms remained average. For the night I took 1.5 g. When I woke up during the night to take a leak I actually felt a little better, but when I got up in the morning everything like mood, photophobia and bloodshot eyes were quite usual. Thus L-Lysine may get a weak-moderate benefit, but on its own it doesn't do much.

Musta, Nut Grass (Cyperus rotundus) [3 g powder containing 48.60 mg polyphenole; Rd: 3g – 1 tsp]: I took 2 tsp (6 g – about 100 mg polyphenole) on the first day (1/2-1-1/2 tsp) and had an O and another half tsp (1.5 g) the next morning. In the first morning it clearly improved my eyes, but when I had the O late afternoon I still developed bloodshot eyes nevertheless. At least they did not become very bad, but rather remained averagely bloodshot. I think I also experienced some anti-depressive effect in the evening, though I also developed a kind of discomfort in the head, a kind of slight headache, that persisted even in the next morning. I suspect the reason to be the high dose, but it was a tolerable side-effect at least. In the morning I actually felt myself a little better than usual. Morning photophobia wasn't too strong and the eyes weren't terrible either, although I still had a generally low mood. Gut issues also appeared about moderately better.
One of the constituents of nut grass is luteolin, which is probably one of the more active components. I guess I can give it a weaker moderate score, which is rather similar to other supplements that contain it.

Danshen (Salvia miltiorrhiza) [100% dried root cut; Rd: tea made with 1-2 teaspoon of herba 2-3 times a day]: I drank Danshen tea (circa 1 liter + 1 tablespoon herba per day) for one and a half days and had an O. The initial reaction appeared to be alright, but not significant. At least after O the symptoms did not become too bad and appeared to remain compensated. Late evening symptoms began to deteriorate and in the morning I felt somewhat worse than average. I think this was caused by eating something bad late afternoon of the previous day. I drank Danshen tea once again in the morning and by early afternoon symptoms appeared noticeably better. The eyes were relatively alright and it seemed to have some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues as well. I can't evaluate it properly in such a short time, but I think Danshen deserves a weaker moderate score from me. Danshen is also regarded as a senolytic supplement and similarly to the others it did not have a significant acute effect. Still there is indication that long-term use (about 3 months) may bring about permanent benefits.

CBD oil (THC free) [500 mg, 1 ml equals 16.66 mg CBD, ingredients: organically grown phytocannabinoid-rich hemp oil, grape seed oil, hemp seed oil, orange oil; Rd: 10-30 mg]: I took 1 ml on the first day and 2 ml (33 mg) on the second in 0.5 ml doses sublingually and also had an O on the second day. I tested it more than a year ago, but I was rather disappointed at the time. Similarly to earlier it really does have a positive effect on gut issues, which is possibly at a moderate-good level. However it appears to be totally ineffective for eye symptoms. I did not experience pink eyes or nausea as before, but instead transient pain sensations occurred, but only on the first day. Once again I couldn't experience an anti-depressive effect. At least it appears to be able to reduce rhinitis. Libido and O appeared rather normal, however during masturbation I felt a light cramping pain at the base of the pole. I suspect overmasturbation, but who knows. Considering everything I can give it a moderate score, however its lack of effect on the eyes makes it undesirable to be used alone.

Lyophilized black wood ear (Auricularia heimuer): I readied 30 g of dried weight mushrooms after preparation and ate it in a day. I did not add any spice, so it was rather bland. It did not have any rapid action, but at least appeared a little useful. In the evening I ate something bad and in a few hours one of my eyes got quite inflammed and painful and this persisted even in the morning which made it difficult to open it. Bloodshotness and photophobia were only average though. The stool was not particularly good in quality, but the burning pain was noticeably reduced. I think it is ineffective for eye symptoms and possibly has a weak-moderate or moderate effect on gut issues. Currently I can give it a weak score, but could be more useful long term if it doesn't contribute to eye issues.
It is interesting to note that black wood ear mushroom is indicated for the treatment of sore eyes and sore throats. In my case it is evidently ineffective for sore eyes and I have to wonder if it actually contributed to the problem, while sore throat was not an issue either before or after treatment.

Robinia white flower tea (Robiniae flos - Robinia pseudoacacia): I drank one cup of tea containing about half a tablespoon of the herb. About six hours later I developed quite severe bloodshot eyes that couldn't be justified by any other circumstance in my opinion. Otherwise I did not notice any other problems. Still I stopped the test and I am not really inclined to test it again just to confirm the bad reaction.

Shankhpushpi (Convolvulus pluricaulis) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took 3 and 2 capsules on two days and had an O on the first day. Even though it is an aphrodisiac, I couldn't really experience this. I had no problem raising the flag, but felt a little less into it than usual. Eye symptoms were not the best when I started to masturbate, but they only got a little worse after O. At the first night when I got up to take a leak, I certainly had better mental clarity than usual. It also felt like I could move around a little easier as the muscles were possibly a little less painful. In the morning I took 2 caps with an hour difference and while it certainly helped with eye symptoms it was less effective than I hoped. Photophobia was also rather usual, so I give it a weak-moderate score for eye issues. Gut issues also appeared about moderately better. The anti-depressive effect was also not apparent in the daytime. At least it is indicated for the enhancement of the memory, so this could be worth taking on a regular basis. My score for it is moderate.

Red rice yeast extract (Monascus purpureus) [333 mg per capsule containing 10 mg Monacolin K; Rd:1]: I took it for two days with a schedule of 1 and 2. I masturbated on both days, but did not have an O. I was a bit surprised how well it works. In a few hours after the first capsule my eyes got a lot better and I also experienced a kind of anti-depressive effect at the time. On the second day the change was not so pronounced after taking the morning dose though. I masturbated some in the early afternoon and everything felt rather normal, though the eyes got a very little worse afterwards, but not significantly. In the early evening I ate something bad again and it kicked in the bloodshot eyes just before going to sleep. I took another capsule then and when waking up early morning I felt myself much better than usual. Bloodshot eyes persisted even in the morning, but they got noticeably better and photophobia wasn't bad either. While not completely clear my mind felt definitely more aware than usual. Gut issues were also apparently better by this time to about a moderate-good level. A possible side-effect may be some transient pain that I felt a few times in the heart and possibly some other places. I am not sure if it indicates a cleansing effect or something I should be worried about long-term though. Its acute benefit is rather distinct nevertheless and I can give it a good score.

Long pepper whole spice (Piper longum) [a source of piperine, piperlongumine and beta-caryophyllene; Rd: about 1g]: I ate 6 pieces is a day, which was about 3 g, I think. I did not O, but masturbated some. After masturbation one of the eyes got worse and remained so. I also developed a particular odor that was not bad, but rather unpleasant due to its persistence. Interestingly rhinitis seemed a little reduced at the same time. I think it deserves only a weak-moderate score acutely, but holds promise as a cheap senolytic.

(Bengalese) Long pepper whole spice: This was another brand in a nicer package, but similarly came from Indonesia. I consumed the same amount the following day and had an O. I did not develop such a powerful odor as with the previous one, but its health benefit appears about the same. Similarly it only had a minimal impact on the eyes as they only got slightly less bloodshot from the morning dose and photophobia was rather bothersome during work. Libido and potency seemed rather good when I masturbated in the afternoon. Symptoms began to creep in even before O, however they did not become too bad after O. The next morning felt rather usual, but at least not terrible. Rhinitis once again appeared partially reduced. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better.

Sun mushroom extract (Agaricus brasiliensis aka A. blazei) [40 mg 1:10 extract per capsule and also contains 15.3 mg polyphenols from fruit peels; Rd: 3]: I expected it to work similarly as some of the better mushrooms, however it did not turn out so well. I took it for two days with a 3 and 2 schedule and without an O, though I masturbated some. I have found it to have nearly no use on eye symptoms, although the second day I took two at once and two hours later the eye symptoms appeared a little better and yet later they became rather average just as on the previous day. As for gut issues the burning pain definitely seemed reduced, however stool quality was not that great. Other symptoms like photophobia or depression appeared rather average. I also had a good spontaneous morning erection, which may implicate that it helps with libido recovery. Currently I can only give it a weak-moderate rating, however I suspect it would be more beneficial on gut issues with longer use.

Phosphatidylserine [100 mg per capsule from soybean extract; Rd: 1-2]: I took it for two days with a 2, 3 schedule and had an O. The first capsule did not cause any significant change, but I took another one before going to sleep. When I woke up during the night to take a leak I felt my mind was much clearer. I also felt like I could breathe easier as the airways felt cleaner. The urine was more in amount than usual and notably lacked the burning quality. I also had more vivid dreams than normally. In the morning though I had the usual photophobia and the averagely bloodshot eyes were unchanged and felt usually tired. In this morning I felt a dull pain in my right palm which was reminiscent to the one I felt during covid-19. This is probably a side-effect of phosphatidylserine as it is considered a procoagulant and is potentially detrimental in the case of coronavirus infection. After a few hours this pain disappeared and did not occur again, even though I kept taking PS. On the second day I took three pills and I felt quite well after the afternoon dose. Even my eyes got better and were only lightly bloodshot. So I give it a shot and had an O. Interestingly even after O my eyes remained relatively stable, so it must have a protective effect. I also felt rather well and only began to feel a little worse after I ate a lot of food. The night did not feel so well as the previous one and I had even developed a light chest inflammation that persisted, so the morning also felt rather usual. Gut issues were apparently better to about a moderate-good level as PS could greatly reduce the burning pain, but its effect could be still overcome by the power of acute POIS. The anti-depressive effect was also not distinct especially during the day, but it still works to some level. During masturbation I was not so much into the activity than usual and it was a bit more difficult to sustain the erection and yet I had a strong O even if a bit forced. Of course it is also possible that I had exhausted myself the previous day when I was more into the thing probably due to the sun mushroom. Well I can give PS a good rating, but its acute effect was not so distinct to put it in the best category.
I also suspect that PS could be an important research target.

Huanarpo macho (Jatropha macrantha) [400 mg per capsule containing 100% micropulverized HM; Rd: 2-3]: Another aphrodisiac that proved to be somewhat beneficial. I took the capsules for two days in a 3,2 schedule and had an O. I still had the chest inflammation, so at first I did not want to risk an O, but then I was stupid enough to do it nevertheless. Initially it seemed that it has a good anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, however eye issues remained relatively stable. In the evening I had a good libido and erection, so I had an O. Even before O I could feel the chest pain provoked by the masturbation. The O felt good, but as expected symptoms began to deteriorate. Fortunately it was around this time that the afternoon dose reached its peak efficacy and that temporarily prevented symptoms getting much worse, so the eye symptoms remained relatively controlled. Then I took the nightly dose and went to sleep. When waking up during the night the chest pain was considerably stronger, but it got noticeably lighter by morning. The morning was not so bad as photophobia was rather light and eye bloodshotness wasn't too bad either. I took 2 caps in the morning and it felt like it further ameliorated the chest pain along the day, but only to a certain extent. Unfortunately eye symptoms did not get particularly better, so it may only have a weak effect on those. At early afternoon once again I had a good erection, which indicates its positive effect even though I kept overexhausting myself the previous days, which was the likely reason for the chest inflammation. Actually the breast lymph nodes appeared a little better than usual and the pain was radiating more to the back on the left side which may indicate a light pulmonitis, not like I had any elevated temperature just as usual. Gut issues were better to about a moderate-good level, but more time would have been required to get a proper estimation. In my opinion Huanarpo macho was much like Suma root, although possibly a little less effective which may be only circumstantial though. For now I would give it a moderate-good rating.

Woad root tea (Isatis tinctoria) [100% dried root cut; Rd: tea made of 1-2g of herbs]: I drank woad root tea (made of circa 1.7 liter of water and 1.5 tablespoon (about 7-8g?) of herbs) for one day without an O. It appeared rather useless for eye symptoms as they remained averagely bloodshot and photophobia was also average. At least it had about a weak-moderate anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. The chest inflammation also got gradually weaker while on the tea and mostly disappeared. I am not sure how much woad was involved in this, but at least it is indicated for the treatment of asthma. Maybe it only prevented the downward shift and so the natural course of resolution could prevail. The only possible side-effect was some temporary cramping of the left palm, but even this was not necessarily due to the tea. It is true though that woad contains a wide variety of compounds and not necessarily all of them are beneficial. It probably has a weak or weak-moderate effect when used acutely.

Bamboo shoot [canned]: I ate two servings (about 150g altogether) as raw salad after washing it in cold water. It clearly had a somewhat better anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. Eye symptoms were practically unchanged tough. At least I felt a little better. I think its effect is somewhat similar to other beneficial foods like sweet potato or zucchini. My interest was due to bamboo shoot being mentioned as a PPARG antagonist.

Quercetin capsules [250 mg of Sophora japonica extract (95% quercetin equals to 237,5 mg per capsule); Rd:2]: I took 3 capsules in a day without an O. At the peak of its effect it has a weak benefit on the eyes, but as it passes bloodshotness strikes again, so it appears mostly useless for this symptom. Gut issues at least appeared weak-moderately better, so it is not entirely useless, but in itself it really doesn't do that much. Of course this only reinforces my earlier evaluation on it as being only weakly beneficial in an acute setting.

African Mango (Irvingia gabonensis) [400 mg seed/nut per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules in a day without an O. It wasn't spectacular, but at least it appeared to work better than the quercetin capsules I took before. It had a better effect on the eyes to about a weak-moderate level, which may be not much, but at least the eyes were not too bad. Gut issues were better to a good degree, but more time would be needed to confirm this. Other symptoms were not particularly better. I can give it a moderate score for now, but may work even better given some more time.
African Mango is another PPARG antagonist that inhibits adipogenesis and lipid peroxidation. It is also a source of phytosterols, which are probably the most active constituents.

Tonka Bean (Dipteryx odorata) [raw]: I put them in warm water and after a few minutes I drank it and consumed the raw beans. I consumed two medium sized pieces (3 g) in a day in three portions. My initial reaction proved to be rather bad as the first half seed caused intensive burning farts a few hours after consumption. Interestingly though eye symptoms actually seemed better. In the afternoon I took one whole bean and somewhat surprisingly I had only a lesser reaction to it.  In the afternoon I masturbated some without an O, but yet the eyes remained relatively lightly bloodshot. Before going to sleep I took the last half seed and in the morning I actually felt a little better, which makes tonka bean a little perplexing. One possible explanation could be the role of coumarins as tonka bean is a rich source of them. I also had problems with cassia cinnamon that also contains a higher amount of coumarin compared to the Ceylon variety. Additionally the taste of tonka bean resembled to apricot kernels, though milder, that I also had similar problems with a few years ago. Indeed apricot is another source of coumarin. Thus I put tonka bean in the mixed category, but at least it also has a noticeable benefit.

Chuchuhuasi (Maytenus laevis) [powder; Rd: 1-5 g]: I took half a teaspoon three times per day (about 7g/day) put in warm water for two days and also had an O. My first impression was that chuchuhuasi somewhat resembled to mangosteen both in appearance and in taste, if I remember well. Interestingly their efficacy is also rather comparable. I definitely felt mentally better on both pre- and postcum mornings, although on the second morning I had a slight headache. It appeared to reduce bloodshot eyes on the first day and even after POIS they only became slightly worse, so I can give it a moderate rating for eye symptoms. Gut issues also appeared better to about a moderate-good degree. I think it had a minor anti-depressive effect that I could feel about 4 hours after intake, but it wasn't lasting and I could hardly feel it on the second day. Rhinitis was also evidently reduced on the second morning. Libido (sexual appetite) felt a little lower than usual during masturbation, but I had no problem with erection and endurance. The control also felt quite alright as I could prevent an ejaculation midway, but it was only to prolong masturbation not to avoid ejaculation entirely. I think it deserves a moderate-good rating.
Chuchuhuasi is also considered an aphrodisiac and is indicated for the treatment of pain, asthma and fibromyalgia among others.

Allspice (Pimenta dioica) [whole spice; Rd: no information]: I took 5 pieces put in warm-hot water and consuming the whole doing this three times in a day (about 3 g in total) without an O. It showed some positive effect even if not considerable. Fortunately I could not note any negative effects at least. I think it had a weak positive effect on the eyes, but this didn't account to much. It also had some positive effect on the gut issues, but later I ate something bad again that spoiled my test, so I can't really say. Rhinitis also appeared reduced or at least remained low while on the stuff. I suspect at least a weak benefit.
Allspice is supposedly a good source of eugenol, quercetin, gallic acid and ericifolin.

Xylitol (derived from birch and beech bark) [100%, powder, vegan]: This is just an alternative sweetener. I used it on several days, but I don't think it provides any particular benefit or adverse effects. Those who have problems with sugar may find it useful.

Clove (Syzygium aromaticum): I ate 5 pieces two times is a day (about 2g). Earlier I was pretty convinced that clove affects me negatively, but I think I need to reconsider this. I mostly based this on my experience with fruit soups. Now it appears that fruits are the more likely culprit (especially cherry, but also plum and apple to a lesser extent). I can't say that clove is particularly beneficial, but it clearly has some benefit and I did not notice any particular adverse effects. It did not appear to be any useful for eye symptoms, while gut issues were possibly weak-moderately better, but more time would be needed for an accurate evaluation. Nevertheless I slept a little more relaxed than usual and the morning also felt slightly better than usual. While I could still perceive muscle pain I think I felt a little more relaxed than usual. Clove in itself is certainly not much, but at least it seems to provide a minor benefit. My score is weak for now.

Erythritol: Another alternative sweetener. Interestingly I think it had a noticeable effect on my POIS. Both eye and gut issues appeared a little better and this may have a similar efficacy as glycin or fructose, but more time is needed for confirmation.

Chervil/French parsley tea (Anthriscus cerefolium): I made a tea by adding one tablespoon of the spice to 1 liter of water and drank it in one day. It has a mild taste that somewhat reminded me to either spinach or artichoke, though I am not completely sure. Regarding its effect it had either no or a weak effect on eye bloodshotness and photophobia was completely average in the morning. Gut issues were better but only to a weak degree. I also masturbated some and had a relatively good potency and control, however this was not likely to be due to chervil as I only consumed it an hour before, and thus a more likely suspect would be a remnant effect of clove which is actually considered an aphrodisiac. I also slept relatively well, but otherwise I didn't experience anything else out of the ordinary.
Chervil is considered a mild stimulant, but I couldn't notice a particular anti-depressive effect, still it could be a good spice in everyday cooking.

Motherwort (Leonurus cardiaca) [400 mg (aerial parts) per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took it for two days with a schedule of (3,2) and had an O. It certainly has some benefit, but nothing too considerable. It had about a weak-moderate benefit on both eye and gut issues. More specifically at first it appeared to have a little benefit on the eyes, but after O they still got worse. On the second day I took 2 caps in the morning and it certainly turned the eyes clearer a few hours later, so it only really works when POIS is not too strong. Similarly it seemed to have some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues as well, but only when POIS was not strong. Photophobia and muscle fatigue were mostly as usual. Even if symptoms got somewhat worse after O, at least I did not develop more serious symptoms like chest inflammation. I don't think it improves sexual functions as everything appeared pretty normal (average), though I had the O on the first day. At this dosage it has a weak-moderate benefit.
As a reference some of its active ingredients are: ursolic acid, sterols, iridoids, flavonoids, furanic diterpenes, alkaloids, minerals.

Hercampuri and Pina (Gentianella alborosea and Ananas comosus) [500 mg per capsule containing hercampuri powder and pineapple (pina); Rd:2]: I took it for two days with a schedule of (2,3) and had an O on the second day. It has a kind of nice effect, but not too powerful. On the first day about 6-7 hours after the first capsule I experienced a kind of inner warmth or improved thermo regulation, but unfortunately I couldn't really experience this on the second day. The first morning felt relatively alright. Rhinitis appeared reduced, but some nasal congestion also occurred. On the second day the eyes got relatively well even though I had exercise intolerance during the day due to work. Muscle fatigue was quite usual and some photophobia did occur. I also developed a light tension headache due to the work. Nevertheless I had an O late afternoon. The sexual function felt rather average and I was not really into it psychologically, but the erection was alright. As it happened countless times in the past when I was more vigorously into the activity the tension headache also increased. The O felt rather normal though and symptoms only got slightly worse after that. The headache resolved on its own a few hours later. The eyes particularly remained rather alright, only slightly bloodshot, even by morning and photophobia wasn't too bad. I had a light depression though. It felt to have a relatively good anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues as the burning pain was noticeably reduced, however I had more of a constipation on both days and the stool was rather hard, which is not good. I think its efficacy was somewhat similar to ginseng even if not all of their particular effects were of a kind, so it deserves a moderate-good score.

Tamarind: I ate 6 pieces of raw fruit (paste) in a day, which equaled to about 50-60 g of whole fruit. 
Given this one day I can say that it mostly has a mixed effect. As for the bad part it certainly induced a lot of flatulence. I think it has both a weak anti- and pro-inflammatory effect. The eyes remained quite alright as they were when I began the test, so it doesn't appear to be harmful at least and given that it is also a source of vitamin C, it may actually had a little protective effect. Otherwise I felt quite as usual with a weak depression. As a comparison the positive and negative effects were both greater with tonka bean. The seed may have some effect on sexual function, but it was too hard to bite even after cracking the kernel and I did not go into the trouble to roast it.

Monk fruit tea (Siraitia grosvenorii) [dried fruit; Rd: half fruit to 1.5 liter of water]: I made a tea by putting a whole fruit in about 1.5 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. The tea itself reminds me to coffee cherry fruit or jujube tea, but with a much sweeter taste. I think it had a weak benefit, but nothing too considerable. To begin with the eyes were only lightly bloodshot and they did not particularly change. They only became slightly worse due to coffee consumption and after I masturbated some in the afternoon. I don't think it had any effect on sexual function as everything felt rather average. It is supposed to help with pulmonary issues and yet I had a hardly noticeable, light chest inflammation that didn't really change due to the tea. Gut issues felt weakly better, but monk fruit had no considerable effect on them either. Depression and muscle fatigue were also felt weakly just as usual. I got up early and could not rest again which made me tired and with average symptoms in the morning. I ate some creamy cake before going to sleep and that may have partially messed up my test though. A possible side-effect was some sudden transient heart discomfort a short time after drinking a larger amount.
If nothing else monk fruit can be used as a natural sweetener.

Pangdahai tea (Sterculiae lychnopherae) [dried seed; Rd: 2-3 pieces with 1 liter of water]: I made a tea (6 seeds in 1.5 liter of water) and drank it throughout one day and also had an O. After work my eyes certainly appeared clearer, although I still had photophobia and felt enervated in thoughts. In the early evening I had an O. The sexual function was close to normal or maybe a little better than that. POIS onset wasn't too bad, but symptoms still emerged to an extent. I also developed a weak headache by the end of masturbation. Afterwards I got a weak chest inflammation on the right side. Eye symptoms deteriorated a little, but they did not become too bad. Contrary to the little benefit on the same day when I got up the next morning I felt rather well. My mind certainly felt more clearer than usual. I had some nasal congestion, but rhinitis was reduced. Of course the chest inflammation also disappeared by this time. The eyes were only weakly bloodshot, so I think it has about a weak-moderate benefit on them. I could move around with relative ease, so muscle fatigue was also not significant. I also had a spontaneous erection due to a naughty thought, so libido also recovered quite well. Gut issues were better to about a moderate-good level. I feel I can give Pangdahai a moderate-good rating at the moment.
Pangdahai is indicated for the treatment of respiratory and bowel problems, which sounds exactly what I need. Pangdahai is a source of beta-sitosterol and daucosterol, which are perhaps the most active compounds. It is also said that Pangdahai can inhibit fatty acid synthetase (FAS) both in a reversible and irreversible way. Needless to say this may indicate a possible long-term benefit.

I also updated the diet list with some elements.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Muon on March 10, 2023, 08:20:08 AM

Have you checked progesterone?

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 10, 2023, 03:34:05 PM

Quote from: Muon on March 10, 2023, 08:20:08 AM

Have you checked progesterone?

No, I haven't yet! Of course it would be kind of informative to see my DHT and progesterone as well. If I only wanted to check these two items it wouldn't be that expensive, but I would rather have a full panel at once which is a bit more so. My job was also rather uncertain as of late due to the energy crisis and I had to cut back on expenses, not to mention the crazy inflation going around. Another problem is that I would have to stop taking any supplements for several days at least and I am plenty crazy about the time that is still needed to try the rest of the stuff I had already bought. I also feel that the information I get out of these empirical supplement tests is much more valuable than any I could gather from one or another lab test. Even if some values would differ it wouldn't be necessarily the cause, but probably only part of the problem. The same is probably true to my slightly elevated estradiol level as in itself it can't justify the severe symptoms I often have. Well at least aromatase inhibitors like damiana or mangosteen proved rather useful so far, so at least it is a validating finding. Earlier I was also considering a genetic screening, but if I consider senescence as the underlying issue than it wouldn't worth much as there would be no genes that could identify POIS. Well it is still possible that errant metabolic pathways stemming from genetic errors would predispose us to senescence and POIS, but in such a case we won't be able to completely eliminate our issue however we tried and than what is the point of all the effort we make. Of course this was the way I have been thinking about POIS for the most part of the last 20 years. Clearly as of now POIS appears to be more of a telomere issue. One lab test that could be highly informative is the measurement of Senescence-Associated-beta-galactosidase enzyme activity. Unfortunately though samples would have to be taken from the involved tissues and as of now it is not even clear which is the exact site or if it is uniform among POISers.
Seeing these difficulties and waiting for doctors to solve these riddles appears a rather vain path and that is why an empirical approach is so much more profitable. I know that not every member is so lucky to react so rapidly or so well to supplements as me, but at least mapping out my own case may help others to map out theirs more easily so as to regain our composure as human beings.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 14, 2023, 04:37:15 AM

As per usual the short version is here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40769#msg40769

L-Dopa/Velvet bean seed extract (Mucuna pruriens) [60 mg per capsule (min. 98% L-Dopa); Rd: 2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. I also tested this sometime in the past, but I couldn’t see a significant benefit, so I skipped on it. For one it doesn’t help at all with eye bloodshotness. However it has some benefit on gut issues, possibly a weak-moderate effect. I also found it to have a minor anti-depressive effect, but this was really not powerful. At least in the morning I got up a bit more aware. One possible side-effect is that I could experience some random weak cramps here-and-there, which were rather unpleasant. Thus one may need to be careful with a higher dose. I also did not dare an O with such bad eye symptoms, so it may need to be combined with other supplements. It deserves a weak-moderate score.

Pippali (Chocolate) Pepper (a variety of Piper longum from India): I consumed 4 pieces 3 times in a day (about 2g) in warm water and with sandwiches as it is somewhat pungent. During the day I couldn’t notice any significant change. By late afternoon I developed a weak headache. I also masturbated some afterwards and later one of the eyes became quite bloodshot, so it doesn’t really protect them. After masturbation my body felt kind of strained which is not a usual POIS symptom, so I suspected some side-effects. However at night I also developed a sore throat and by morning I also had some headache again, which made me think that I probably got some minor infection. These symptoms got much weaker a few hours afterwards at least. Nevertheless I don’t think chocolate pepper did much, but at least it felt like it helped with gut issues a little. Acutely it certainly doesn’t do much, but similarly to regular long pepper it may have some senolytic effect.

Rose petal tea (Rosa × damascena): I consumed about 2 liters of tea in a day made of 1.5 tablespoon of rose petals. At first it appeared to have a little benefit. However around noon I ate something bad and that messed me up by late afternoon. I also masturbated some in the evening, but I couldn’t notice any particular change in sexual capability. One of the eyes became rather bloodshot afterwards and by morning both of them were rather bad. It felt like the tea helped with gut issues a little at least, but it doesn’t seem like it has any significant benefit besides, so I put this in the weak category.

(Pure) Jasmine petal tea (Jasminum): I made tea from the combination of 1.5 tablespoon of herb and 1.5 liter of water and drank it in a day and also had an O. My eyes were pretty bad and I still felt like I had a minor subdued infection. In the beginning it felt like jasmine has a little more anti-inflammatory effect than rose petals. While the eyes were relatively stable in the afternoon they really got bad after I had an O. I knew it was not wise, but sometimes I feel like it is better to start with a clean slate as this POIS cycle appeared worse than usual. So I got a kind of usual POIS offset, but after I went to sleep and woke up during the night I was actually feeling myself better than usual. Even in the morning while objective symptoms were rather usual like bloodshot eyes, photophobia and muscle pain, still subjectively I was feeling myself a little better and my mind appeared sharper than expected. Jasmine seemed moderately effective for gut issues as well. Unfortunately I also had a weak-moderate headache that started shortly before starting to masturbate in the afternoon and I still felt it weakly in the morning. If it was not due to an infection, than it could be a side-effect of drinking too much jasmine tea. My sexual function appeared a little below average like in the previous days, but at least ejaculation control seemed quite good. In the morning my wood felt stimulable, by some sexual thoughts, so it could also improve libido recovery even if not that strongly. For now I can give pure jasmine tea a weak-moderate score which could be comparable to my experience to the jasmine infused green tea, however it clearly can’t deal with a stronger POIS.

Saffron extract capsules (Crocus sativus) [30 mg of saffron 10:1 extract containing 90 ug safranal; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day without sexual activity. This one was relatively cheap, but I guess the reason is that it was not standardized to the more effective crocin. Its benefit on the eyes seemed lesser than that of the other saffron products that I had tried, even though I usually have more luck with the capsule forms. Still it evidently improved eye symptoms, but it did not help that much, well maybe to a weak-moderate-moderate degree. Of course the eyes were rather bad to begin with, but I still had weakly bloodshot eyes the next morning, so it did not completely resolve them. Gut issues were also somewhat better, but I also ate something that was a little bad for POIS and so I can’t really tell how much exactly. At least the infection if I had any seemed to disappear on this day. As both jasmine and saffron have a possible anti-viral effect they may have contributed to this. General POIS related rhinitis  was also evidently reduced and this was apparent both in the evening and morning. I could not feel a distinct anti-depressive effect, but I was not feeling too depressed either. Based on my current experience it has a moderate effect.

Graviola/Soursop (Annona muricata) [530 mg Graviola leaf per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. I found it to have the best effect on bloodshot eyes as it can reduce them fairly well, possibly to a moderate or moderate-good level. I can’t say I have experienced a particular anti-depressive effect even by the morning, but at least I was not too depressed. However it reduced rhinitis as the nose felt rather relaxed in the morning. Gut issues weren’t that much better, maybe only to a weak or weak-moderate level. On some separate days I have already tested this in the past and had a generally similar experience as now. Even then it seemed to reduce bloodshot eyes rather well, although at least one time I had developed a headache and I suspected the involvement of Graviola, but it did not occur this time even though the relatively high dose. Altogether I can give it a moderate score, although it could be risky to take it for long-term due to the possible development of Parkinson-like symptoms. Some of its constituents are vitamin C, annonacin, annonamine and lichexanthone. Lichexanthone was found to enhance sperm motility. The atypical Parkinsonism is probably connected to the neurotoxic effect of annonacin.

Huminiqum [1 capsule contains: 120 mg fulvic acid, 50 mg humic acid, 41 mg vitamin C, 21 mg milk thistle extract and a number of essential minerals: Si, Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu, B, Mo, I, Se, Cr; Rd:2x2]: I took 6 caps in a day and had an O. Well it turned out surprisingly useful. I say this despite the fact that I had already tried this in the past, but I couldn’t make out that much of a difference then. This time I found it to have about a good benefit. The eyes only turned slightly worse after the ejaculation and they remained so even by the morning. Actually I felt best when waking up in the middle of the night. In the morning I still had photophobia, but the eyes were quite alright. I could also not note a particular anti-depressive effect. I am also rather divided what to say about gut issues as it appeared to me to have more like a mixed effect. I can’t exclude the possibility that one of the constituents is actually detrimental, but at least the positive effects predominate. I also had a good libido and erection, though sexual control and endurance were only average. If I remember well it caused some heart issues in the past and that is why I skipped on the test at the time. After the first two caps I had one sudden heart clench, but this did not occur afterwards, so this side-effect could be my imagination as well as it is hard to confirm without several days of testing.

Sage tea (Salvia officinalis): I made a tea of 1.5 liter of water and 1.5 tablespoon of herb and drank it in a day without an O. I thought to retest sage as my earlier judgment may not have been justified. The product was also a different one. As it turns out it really does not appear to have any negative effects and actually feels like it has some benefits, however I did not find it to be particularly strong in that quality. It had a weak benefit on gut issues and a minimal one on eye issues. I also masturbated some in the afternoon and I had quickly developed a sore throat and some chest inflammation. Fortunately as the effect of sage tea began to peak (about 4 hours) it managed to somewhat ameliorate these symptoms, still I did not feel it to be that good to dare an O at the time. My eyes also became a little more bloodshot afterwards. While I could not note a distinct anti-depressive effect, sometimes I felt a little less depressed. In the morning I was not feeling particularly better than usual though and symptoms were mostly as usual. I also had some lower back pain and also some around the liver. I am not sure if it had anything to do with sage, but one may need to be careful with higher doses. So my new value for sage is a weak positive one.
The principal compounds of its essential oil are alpha-thujone, 1,8-cineole and camphor, but it also contains compounds like borneol, catechinic acid, eucalyptol, linalool, ursolic acid, chlorogenic acid, caffeic acid, nicotinic acid, fumaric acid, oleandolic acid etc.

Indian Coleus (Coleus forskohlii L./Coleus barbatus) [300 mg of 5:1 extract per capsule containing maximum 1.5 mg forskolin; Rd:1]: I took 3 or 4 (most likely 4). Similar to the other forskolin product it does not appear to have any striking effect. At least it appears to be a little useful. It seems to have a weak or weak-moderate benefit on gut issues and a minimal if any on the eyes. I also masturbated some in the afternoon, which felt rather normal in a good way, but one of the eyes became somewhat worse afterwards. By evening I felt a mild and somewhat pleasant odor and the nose felt a little relaxed. In the morning I felt slightly more aware, but eye symptoms were as usual. I also felt an unpleasant prostatic pain and only had a little urine. Fortunately the pain subsided within a few hours, but this may indicate some negative side-effects. Thus my score is only a weak one.
Besides forskolin it is also a source of rosmarinic acid, flavonoid glucuronides and diterpenoids.

Health speedwell tea (Veronica officinalis): I made a tea of 1.5 liter of water and 1.5 tablespoon of herb and drank it in a day and had an O. This one certainly seems one of the better teas. It had some positive effect on the eyes (maybe weak or weak-moderate) and about a moderate on gut issues. In the afternoon I had an O. The sexual quality appeared rather normal, though my endurance was rather good. The ejaculate was somewhat burning, but I guess this was an accumulation effect from the previous days when I only masturbated without an O. After O I still developed some symptoms like suddenly I was feeling really chilled, but it was not as bad as usual. Shortly after O my symptoms even seemed to get a little better when the previous dosage of Veronica tea reached its peak effect. Before going to sleep symptoms still crept in and felt more like usual. In the morning though I was definitely better. The effect was most striking for gut issues and the morning urine was practically not burning even though it was still burning in the evening. Photophobia was mostly usual though and the throat felt a little sore, however at the same time rhinitis felt somewhat reduced. Sometimes I even felt a little clearer mentally, but it wasn’t really distinct even when I got up at night, so it doesn’t really have an anti-depressive effect. The only really side-effect was a more intensive flatulence, but this is really common for things that help. Bowel sounds were also frequent though which is less common. I guess I can give it a moderate score.
Veronica is said to have numerous health benefits and is a source of iridoid glycosides (veronicosid, aucubin, catalposide, verminoside), rosmarinic acid, ferulic acid and some saponins.

Mistletoe tea (Viscum album): I made cold teas 3 times a day using 2.5g tea bags (7.5g in all) and drank them in one day without an O. Mistletoe also seemed to help more than just a little even if it was not that great. The eye issues appeared about moderately better, while gut issues only to a lesser extent, but flatulence was also a lesser issue than that of the previous speedwell. I also masturbated some in the evening, but I felt a little spent from the previous day, so the erection was not that good, otherwise everything felt pretty normal. The eye issues were quite reduced in the evening and even after masturbation they remained so, though I developed dry eyes, but that is practically a daily occurrence that tends to kick in between 9-11 p.m. The dry eyes remained an issues till morning, but they were only lightly bloodshot, still photophobia occurred. In the morning at least I felt rather relaxed and I wasn't particularly depressed. Interestingly I also had some spontaneous erections, so it can help libido recovery. The morning urine also burnt noticeably less. Muscle pain was usual, but possibly they were less fatigued than usual as I could move around a little easier. Rhinitis also appeared a little reduced. I couldn’t note any particular side-effects, but it is one of the riskier herbals long-term. I think I can give it a weak-moderate rating.
Some of its constituents are viscotoxins, lectins, flavonoids, phenolic acids, terpenoids, sterols, phenylpropanoids, and alkaloids. It may be also interesting to note that one of its major phenolic ingredient (o-coumaric acid) was shown to inhibit both CYP7A1 and CYP7B1. Mistletoe is also considered an aphrodisiac and could increase testosterone in one trial.

Sweet woodruff/sweetscented bedstraw tea (Asperulae folium, Galium odoratum): I drank a tea made of 1 liter of water and 1 tablespoon of herb in a day and also had an O. I found it to be a bit confusing. I expected a similar reaction as to tonka beans as sweet woodruff is also said to be rich in coumarin, however I couldn’t notice any such negative reactions. The initial reaction appeared a little beneficial, but nothing else. Still I had an opportunity, so I decided to have an O. What perplexed me though is that I practically couldn’t experience any significant change afterwards and symptoms remained similarly low level as before and even in the morning I had the usual chronic level of problems and nothing else. So while it may not clearly improve POIS, it seems to have some protective effect. Given my current experience I have to give it a moderate rating, but it is not clear how circumstantial this occasion was. I also can’t exclude the possibility that mistletoe from the previous day still exerted its benefit or had a synergy between them. One needs to be careful with sweet woodruff though, due to potential liver toxicity caused by coumarin. I actually had some temporary pain in the general area of the liver a few hours after the first cup, but this did not happen again afterwards.
Sweet woodruff has a spasmolytic and anxiolytic effect.

White kidney bean extract (Phaseolus vulgaris) [500 mg 20:1 extract per capsule; Rd:3x1]: I took 4 caps daily for two days without an O. On the first day it did not have any striking effect. I also ate something bad, so I actually got a little worse, like I had developed some chest inflammation by the time I went to bed and one of the eyes was somewhat bad. On the second afternoon I took 2 at once and a few hours later masturbated some and yet I had developed some brutal bloodshot eyes, so I did not dare an O. At least the sexual activity felt rather normal. Gut issues were about moderately better, but it clearly had some mixed effect as well and it is not only due to the increased flatulence, but the burning pain as well. At least stool quality was better. If I put tonka bean in the mixed category then I need to put white kidney bean there as well as it clearly did not help that much.
One of the active compound is supposed to be phaseolin, which can inhibit the enzyme alpha-amylase. I wonder if the negative reaction could be linked to lectins as beans are know to be a rich source of that, although white kidney bean is supposed to contain only a smaller amount.

Dwarf everlast/immortelle tea (Stoechados flores/Helichrysum arenarium): I made a hot tea of 1.5 tablespoon of herba and 1.5 liter of water and drank it in one day and also had an O. At first in the morning it clearly reduced eye symptoms, although it wasn’t too strong. In the afternoon I had an O and the eyes got somewhat worse, but only to a lesser degree. Later as the effect of another cup of tea peaked they actually appeared stabilized. Sexual activity felt mostly normal, though I was less into it than usual and it felt more difficult to maintain the erection, but this may have been the result of overindulgence from the previous days. The ejaculate also had a burning quality which was probably another proof of that. I think I experienced some temporary anti-depression during the day, but this wasn’t that strong. At least when I woke up at night I was more aware and felt noticeably better than usual and the morning wasn’t too bad either. Gut issues also appeared better to about a moderate-good degree. Rhinitis also felt reduced in the morning. While nowhere near perfect I can still give immortelle tea a moderate-good rating.
While quercetin alone doesn’t make much of a difference, still combined with other flavonoids and phytosterols surely makes a difference. The major constituents are the following: quercetin, kaempferol, naringenin, apigenin, luteolin, helichrysin A and B, phytosterol, salipurposide, isosalipurposide, coumarins (umbelliferone, esculetin, scopoletin), pyrone derivatives (arenol, homoarenol), lignans, triterpene acids, squitterpene lactones.

(Dried) Chives (Allium schoenoprasum): I put 1 teaspoon of dried chives in a cup of warm tea and drank this four times in a day without an O. It appeared a little useful, but nothing significant really. I guess I can safely consume this at least. Several years ago I used to eat fresh onion scallions regularly and I think it similarly helped a little with POIS, however the flavor was often bothering my throat and I suspected and increased risk of infection due to this, so I stopped eating them altogether.

Chicory root tea (Cichorii herba/Cichorium intybus): I made a tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.5 liter of hot water and drank it in one day without an O. It appeared to be a little more useful, but it was not powerful. I think it had a little positive effect on my eyes as they remained rather alright. Gut issues actually seemed quite better to about a moderate-good level. In the morning I also felt a little better as general symptoms were lighter than usual. A few hours after the first cup I think I felt some anti-depression as well, but I did not experience this afterwards. Rhinitis also appeared to be a little better. At the moment I can give it a weak-moderate rating.
Besides the inulin polysaccharide some of its other active constituents are sesquiterpene lactones, lactucin, lactucopicrin, aesculetin, aesculin, cichoriin, umbelliferone, scopoletin, 6,7-dihydrocoumarin.
It is really interesting that contrary to the tea chicory coffee actually turns my POIS worse, which means the roasting process must be the culprit and something similar may be the case for regular coffee as well. As a source of inulin chicory is also easier to consume than artichoke unless capsules are used.

Sweet basil tea (Ocimum basilicum): I made a tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1 liter of water and drank it in one day with an O. Once again I was surprised as I suspected sweet basil to enhance POIS related issues. As it turns out it can actually help. In the afternoon I had an O. I had a good erection and had a good control over ejaculation, still libido and endurance were rather normal. The ejaculate felt unusually warm, but it was not burning as in more pronounced cases. It was rather surprising that the eyes practically remained the same with only mild symptoms, so basil possibly has a protective effect in this regard. I also developed a sore throat and had the beginnings of a chest inflammations as it often happens, but it did not become worse than that. When I woke up in the middle of the night I actually felt a little better. I also had a nasal congestion, but rhinitis was noticeably reduced as it often happens. For some reason I also felt a weak ass muscle inflammation at this time. When I woke up in the morning the eyes were still only lightly bloodshot and photophobia wasn’t too strong either. I also woke up with an erection which is certainly a good sign in my book. Gut issues weren’t that much better though, but I also ate some cakes the day before and it was possibly a little bad. I think sweet basil deserves a moderate rating based on this current one day trial, although once again I can’t exclude the possibility that chicory tea from the previous day had contributed somewhat to the overall effect.
Some of the more active constituents of sweet basil are eugenol and ursolic acid.
I have to wonder if my earlier suspicions could stem from either a negative interaction with other food ingredients. Another possibility I see is the aflatoxin contamination of lower quality spices that I am probably very sensitive to, especially as aflatoxin disturbs lipid metabolism and increases CD36 associated with SASP.

Absinthe wormwood tea (Artemisia absinthium): I made a tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.5 liter of hot water. It did not do anything significant really, but at least it felt like it had a little positive effect in general. The eye symptoms remained rather alright even though I masturbated some in the afternoon. The sexual function was rather average, but I was also rather fatigued from the previous day so it was no wonder. I was a bit worried about some sudden convulsions, but nothing really bad happened in the end. Though I had some weak and temporary convulsion-like symptoms (like a sudden cramp in the prostate, but only once or some blood vessel pulsation in the leg and some creeping tingling on the back of my neck before going to sleep). In the morning I felt mostly as usual, but nothing too bad. Actually I had a nice firm spontaneous erection as well, thus libido was recovering nicely. Gut issues also felt better, possibly to a weak-moderate degree. Specifically the stool quality wasn’t so good, but the burning pain was quite reduced. Depression felt a little reduced at the times shortly after I consumed the teas, but generally it was the same as usual, so no real help there. I think it only deserves a weak score, but it is still intriguing that I hadn’t any adverse effects POIS-wise. Actually one of the few occasions when I had a serious hangover was due to a greater amount of absinthe, but this happened such a long time ago that I cannot recall any specifics.
Some of its constituents are sesquiterpene lactones, absinthin, (-) - thujone, (+) - isothujone, thujyl alcohol and its esters, chamazulene and other mono- and sesquiterpenes. It probably does not contain artemisinin as only Artemisia annua is said to do so. (-)-alpha-Thujone by itself is a GABAA receptor antagonist that can cause convulsions and death in large amounts. However thujone was also indicated to reduce prostatic inflammation as a major constituent of Thuja/arborvitae.

Peppermint tea (Mentha x piperita): I made a tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.5 liter of hot water. I think it had a weak benefit on the eyes, although it was hard to tell. Gut issues also appeared better to about a weak-moderate degree, though it could have been actually better given some more time. It also induced somewhat more flatulence just as I remembered, but it wasn’t really that excessive. Acutely it has a weak-moderate effect, which may be comparable to other mints, but the reduction of testosterone in the long-term may not make it an ideal choice for regular use.
Peppermint is abundant in a variety of compounds including: menthol, menthone, menthyl acetate, menthofuran, 1,8-cineol, peppermint oil, limonene, pulegone, caryophyllene, pinene, eriocitrin, hesperidin, kaempferol 7-O-rutinoside.

Chancapiedra (Phyllanthus niruri) [500 mg 100% micropulverized chancapiedra per caps; Rd:3]: I took 4 caps in a day and had an O. I expected somewhat better, but at least it appears to be somewhat useful. It does not seem to have any rapid effects. I had an O in the afternoon and regarding sexual activity the sexual desire was lower than usual, control was average, while potency and endurance were better than usual, though these facts may be only circumstantial. The eyes became somewhat worse after O, but not terribly. Otherwise I felt relatively alright (e.g. I did not feel the usual muscle pain). Of course by the time I went to bed I felt rather exhausted. When I woke up in the middle of the night I had already developed a moderate chest inflammation on the left side. The eyes also felt rather dry, but mentally I wasn’t feeling too bad. In the morning it was more like usual (photophobia and eye symptoms) and even the chest inflammation got a little better. Gut issues certainly felt better to about a moderate degree, but it could be better with longer use. The urine was not especially burning and yet I had more difficulty with urination. As Chancapiedra is supposed to help with kidney stone elimination one can only guess that using a lower starting dose is probably a better idea to avoid this problem. Based on the current test its acute effectiveness is only weak-moderate, but may have additional health benefits in the long-term.

Blessed thistle tea (Cnicus benedictus): I made a tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.5 liter of hot water. It did not appear to have any particular effect on eye or any other rapid effects. The weak chest inflammation I had also persisted throughout the day, but it was only a nuisance. However in the morning I felt myself a little relaxed and wasn’t feeling too bad. The eyes felt a little less dry then usual. Gut issues also appeared quite better to about a moderate-good degree. It is true though that this particular product was expired and it may not have been the full extent of its possible effect. Its taste was also a little sweet contrary to the bitter taste it is supposed to have. I can only give it a weaker moderate rating, but could be useful in a combination. As a reference I think it was kind of similar to pot marigold tea.
Blessed thistle similarly to milk thistle should help with the liver, thus some members could be interested to try it. Interestingly one of its compound called arctigenin can be found in burdock as well which is a determined ERbeta agonist. Another compound called cnicin has an antinociceptive effect in which all opioid receptors all likely to be involved.
The phytochemical compositions includes: sesquiterpene lactone glycosides, cnicin, polyacetylen, absinthin, salonitenolide and artemisiifolin, triterpenoids (a-amyrenone, a-amyrin acetate, a-amyrine, and multiflorenol acetate), lignans (trachelogenin, nortracheloside and arctigenin), flavonoids (apigenin-7-O-glucoside, luteolin and astragalin), tannins, n-nonane, n-undecane, n- tridecane, dodeca-l,ll-dien-3,5,7,9-tetrain (polyyne), pcymene, fenchon, citral, cinnamaldehyde.

Hyssop tea (Hyssopus officinalis): I had two brands, so I divided their use in one day, but I did not have an O. I made the first tea by adding 1.5 teaspoon of herb to about 0.7 liter of hot water and as for the second I put 1 teaspoon of herb powder in the same amount of water. My eyes stayed as they were, so it does not seem to help at all with this problem. The chest inflammation I had also persisted faintly and felt more like a discomfort around the heart, although it got a little stronger in the morning. Contrary to this rhinitis was reduced a little as the airway was rather clean and not particularly irritated. Gut issues appeared better about weak-moderately, but it wasn’t as strong as blessed thistle tea from the previous day. I feel I can score it as weak-moderate.
It is also indicated for the treatment of asthma, but this time it did not seem to help even with the only faint chest inflammation. Considering some of its constituents I find it strange that it did not work better. They were both also rather new products, so expiry couldn’t have been an issue.
Some of its constituents are thujone, ketone, phenol, pinocamphone, pinene, camphene, sesquiterpene alcohol, cineole, flavonoids, tannins, bitter substances (marrubin), glycosides (hyssopin, hesperidin and diosmine), oleanolic acid, ursolic acid, beta-sitosterol, resins, rosmarinic acid and total hydroxycinnamic derivatives. Similarly to absinthe wormwood it is an ingredient of absinthe and acts as a pro-convulsant in greater doses, probably due to ketone and thujone.

Black summer truffle (Tuber aestivum) [Slices (52%) in extra virgin olive oil (46%) with a net weight of 30g]: I ate the whole jar in one day on sandwiches without an O. I think it had a little positive effect on the eyes, but it wasn’t anything too noticeable. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the eyes remained lightly bloodshot, however later I had a shower after which I had developed quite bad bloodshot eyes. At least even later once again they became a little better once again. They remained so in the morning, although photophobia was practically as usual. Unfortunately gut issues weren’t much better either, maybe weakly, but even hyssop seemed better in this regard. The nose also felt a little irritated, so it did not help with rhinitis, but at least the chest inflammation resolved on this day. During masturbation every aspect of the sexual activity felt average. I can only give it a weak rating. It is also rather sad that the addition of extra virgin oil did not help either which makes a separate test pointless.
Some identified components of truffles are ergosterol, tuberoside anandamide, polysaccharides, and phenolics. By some it is also considered as an aphrodisiac.

Couch Grass/Graminis rhizome tea (Agropyron/Elymus/Triticum repens): I made a hot tea by adding  1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.5 liter of water of what I drank in a day and also had an O. It had about a moderate benefit on the eyes. Certainly after O the eyes somewhat became worse, but they weren’t too bad and I could also see some benefit beforehand. Gut issues were clearly better maybe to a moderate-good degree, but it is really hard to evaluate this accurately in such a short time. At least an anti-inflammatory effect was evident. Flatulence was more prominent than usual though. I can’t say that I had experienced any particular anti-depressive effect, but at least in the morning I was comparatively alright. The sexual activity felt rather average, but I can only guess that the excessive masturbation doesn’t allow me to regenerate quickly enough. I can’t say I had experienced any notable side-effect, but as a source of inulin chicory root tea could be a safer choice. I think it deserves a moderate score based on this current trial.
The major constituent of couch grass is triticin, a polysaccharide related to inulin. Also present are mucilaginous substances, a polyfructosan called tricin, saponins, sugar alcohols (mannitol, inositol), traces of vitamin A-B, essential oil with polyacetylenes or carvone, carvacrol, small amounts of vanilloside (vanillin monoglucoside), vanillin, and phenolcarboxylic acids, silicic acid, silicates and iron. Lectins found in the seedlings and leaves may also be present in the rhizome.  Other constituents are agropyrene, mucilage, thymol, menthol, and other minerals, albumin.

Chasteberry tea (Vitex agnus-castus) [fruit]: I made a hot tea by adding 2 teaspoons of herb to about 1 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I did not expect much considering my earlier experiences with the capsules, so it was rather surprising when it actually turned out that the tea is quite beneficial. It evidently had a relatively good effect on the eyes as they only became slightly worse after O and even before they appeared nicer. Gut issues also felt comparatively better maybe to a good degree even and flatulence wasn’t that much of an issue as with couch grass from the previous day. The sexual performance seemed rather average, but once again I was rather exhausted from the previous days. Rhinitis also felt somewhat better. I don’t think I had experienced any particular side-effects either as previously with the caps. Of course its acute effect may differ from a longer treatment. I feel I can give it a good rating as it was possibly better than raspberry leaves tea, although I tried that a really long time ago.
Some of its ingredients are: penduletin, apigenin, PHBA, homoorientin, agnuside, casticin and numerous other compounds. Penduletin and apigenin are ERbeta specific ligands.

Yucca (Yucca spp.) [500 mg per capsule containing 4:1 root concentrate with natural saponins; Rd: 2x2-3]: I took 4 caps in a day without an O. It did not help much with eye symptoms or only minimally.
It seemed to help with gut issues about moderately. Rhinitis seemed somewhat reduced. I took the last two caps before going to sleep, but I had no problems with sleeping. I also had a good erection in the morning. Otherwise I can’t really say much. I think it deserves a weak-moderate score.
The two most active compounds are steroidal saponins and polyphenolics. The steroidal saponins are a precursor of natural cortisone. One mustn’t confuse Yucca with Yuca (cassava).

Common mugwort (Artemisia vulgaris): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.5 liter of water and consumed it in a day without an O. I don’t think it has any benefit on the eyes as I had developed rather bloodshot eyes in the morning after some exercise intolerance and in the afternoon after some masturbation. They were also rather average in the morning. It still has some benefits though. For one the rhinitis appeared somewhat reduced. Gut issues were also better, but only weakly as far as I can tell. The sexual function seemed rather usual during masturbation, but at least I had some spontaneous erections at night and in the morning, so it can’t be bad. I could sleep rather well and had some dreams in the first part of the night, but it wasn’t anything extraordinary. I had some minor discomfort of the heart in the morning and in the evening, which may be a possible side-effect, but this wasn’t anything serious. Still long-term usage may entail some risks. I also developed a light headache before masturbation, but it resolved on its own by the time I went to bed, so it was more likely due to the exercise intolerance in the morning, especially as it seemed to resolve exactly around the time the first afternoon dosage reached its peak effectiveness about 7 hours after consumption. I also had a rather sore throat when I woke up in the middle of the night, but it became weak by the morning. During the day depression was as usual, although when I woke up at the middle of the night I felt a little clearer, still in the morning it was more like usual. I can only give this a weak score as of now. So far based on my experiences with thujone and other GABAergic supplements, I can only guess that GABA may not play a central role in my case.
Some compounds in mugwort are thujone, vulgarin, artemisinin, scopoletin, camphene, camphor, sabinene, and some derivatives of quercetin and kaempferol. Mugwort is said to cause lucid dreaming due to its thujone content. It is also interesting to note that it may contain some artemisinin contrary to wormwood.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on April 25, 2023, 02:35:46 AM

Organic Sacha Inchi oil (Plukenetia volubilis) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 3x2]: I took 6 caps in a day without an O. I worked more than usual and had exercise intolerance related symptoms. My eyes at some points were pretty bad and it didn’t look like the supplement helped at all in this regard. I slept through the night without waking up (not as usual) and in the morning I felt myself a little better than average, though of course not much. Muscle pain was still present from the previous day. Gut issues appeared about moderately better. I think it only deserves a weak score in an acute POIS setting, but I still see some rational for long-term use as an alternative to fish oil due to its omega-3 content, especially as I couldn’t see any adverse effects contrary to the fish oil capsules.

Shilajit (Purified asphaltum – Indian origin) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2-4]: I took 5 caps in a day without an O. I couldn’t see a clear benefit on the eyes, but they were relatively lightly bloodshot throughout the day even when I was working. Even in the morning it remained lightly bloodshot as it was, but at least the white of the eye sometimes seemed a little bit clearer than usual. I took 2 caps early afternoon, but even so I couldn’t experience any significant change later. At least I slept relatively alright. I woke up in the middle of the night temporarily, but I could sleep back without going to the loo. I did not feel so well as with Huminiqum, but at least I was not feeling unwell either. The morning felt only a bit better than usual, but at least the urine was only slightly burning. Gut issues appeared about moderately better, but that is the only real acute benefit I could see. For now I can only give it a weak-moderate score, still it may have a better effect when used for a longer period, but I can’t afford such tests anymore.
Some of its more important compounds could be fulvic/humic acids and urolithins.

Chickweed tea (Stellaria media): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of the herb to 1.2 liter of water. I consumed it in one day without an O. I think it can weakly help both eye and gut issues, however its overall effect wasn’t too considerable. I also masturbated some in the afternoon yet symptoms did not particularly change. The sexual performance felt rather average as well. The anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues was more apparent by morning, but symptoms felt rather general otherwise. I think it deserves a weak-moderate score.
Some of its constituents: flavonoids, oligosaccharide stellariose, anthraquinone derivatives, fatty acid, steroid saponins and phenolic compounds. Anecdotally it has been also used to treat reproductive and respiratory tracts inflammations.

Sweet flag tea (Acorus calamus) [rhizome]: I made cold teas 2 times by adding half a tablespoon of herb to 0.6 liter of water and drank it in a day and also had an O. It clearly helped somewhat, but its effectiveness was clearly nothing extraordinary. Generally I had about the same experience as with chickweed tea. Its benefit on the eyes was rather low if any. Sexual performance was rather average if not worse. I think it was due to the overstrain from the previous days though. The ejaculate was somewhat burning, but I am quite sure it was due to the combination of exercise intolerance and edging from the previous days. Testing new supplements this frequently also doesn’t make it easy to recover and get more clear results. After O one of the eyes got somewhat worse, but it wasn’t so bad. I also developed noticeable rhinitis and a weak chest inflammation by the time I was going to bed. At least I slept rather well and by morning most of these got significantly reduced. In the morning eye issues were rather usual meaning they weren’t too bad. The urine also did not burn particularly. Gut issues also seemed better to about a weak-moderate degree. As a general feeling I can give it a weak-moderate score.
One of its most indicated compounds is beta-asarone that has many pharmacological properties, like a stimulant activity which is similar to that of mescaline. However beta-asarone was also found to be a potential carcinogen, thus long term use should be avoided. Some of the other constituents that could be also responsible for its health benefit: eugenol, pinene, camphene and caryophyllene.

Lactobacillus plantarum [25 mg per capsule containing 10 billion CFU; Rd:1-2]: I took 3 capsules in a day without an O. My eyes remained the same weak-moderately bloodshot throughout the day, so it did not seem to help anything in that regard. Other symptoms were also rather usual. Maybe I felt a little better in the morning, but really not particularly. Gut issues were better to about a moderate-good degree, however I also ate some sweet potato the previous day, so I can’t exclude a combined effect. Nevertheless I also had some positive experience with Normaflore in the past, so probiotics can certainly help a little. As a side-effect a few hours after the second capsule I had some temporary gut cramping around the liver. If I remember well this was also a common issue with Normaflore at the time and it was partly the reason I stopped taking it then. Actually I took a few boxes of Normaflore several years ago and while it helped a little acutely it had never brought about any permanent change and that was the other reason I abandoned it. I can give it a weak-moderate score and I believe it may have some role in a combination in a smaller dose, especially with prebiotics like inulin, but alone it will never account to anything against POIS.

Red Pu-Erh tea: I made a hot tea by adding a smaller tablespoon of herbs to about 1 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I think it had a weak benefit on the eyes, but it wasn’t that much. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. As usual it helps a little, but it did not have a significant effect acutely.
It is a kind of pre-fermented tea that should lower cholesterol well.

Policosanol [20 mg per capsule containing 10 mg octacosanol, 2 mg triacontanol, 1 mg hexacosanol; Rd:1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day and had an O. It seemed to have a moderate benefit on the eyes. The eyes remained relatively stable even after O and only felt a little worse by the time I went to bed. I believe it had a positive effect on gut issues as well, but I can’t really say how much as I also ate something bad in the evening. I did not experience a particular anti-depressive effect, but I was somewhat less depressed, especially in the afternoon. The rhinitis was also reduced, though once again nasal congestion was increased in parallel. Sexual control appeared a little better than usual, while desire was a little lower. A possible side-effect was some temporary upper GI pain a few hours afters intake, but this may have been circumstantial. I can only give it a moderate-good score now, but it may be even better given some more time.
Scientific research shows that policosanol should have a similar or even better effect on cholesterol than red rice yeast and their combination should be even better. Furthermore policosanol is another good CD36 antagonist.

Snow hundred beauty tea (snow daisy - Coreopsis tinctoria and sword-leaf dogbane - Apocynum venetum): I made a hot tea by adding 2 teabags (2x2g) to 1.5 liter of water. There was either no or only a little benefit on the eyes. Gut issues were moderately better. The stool was strikingly yellowish and loose, but I had no diarrhea. I could not sleep back after waking up in the middle of the night, though I can’t say there was a clear anti-depression. At least I had an upright wood at the time, so libido was recovering nicely. I think it deserves a weak-moderate score.
It is advertised to reduce cholesterol, stress and normalize blood pressure. Some of its constituents are flavonoids, polyacetylenes, polysaccharides, phenylpropanoids, and volatile oils. Snow daisy contains a polysaccharide that can inhibit alpha-amylase, alpha-glucosidase and NO. Sword-leaf dogbane contains flavonoids, cardiac glycosides and organic acids, etc.

White mulberry (Morus alba L.) [350 mg per capsule containing 3.5 mg 1-Deoxynojirimycin (DNJ); Rd:1]:  I took 3 caps in a day. It seemed to have some positive effect, but it wasn’t strong at all. I masturbated some in the afternoon and after that one of the eyes got really bloodshot. It remained so even by morning, so I don’t think it has any effect on that. At least gut issues appeared quite better to about a moderate-good level. In the morning I felt a bit more aware than usual (less depressed), but nothing extraordinary. However I also had some lower back or colon pain, which may happen sometime, but this may be unrelated. I can’t say that I had experienced any side-effects at least. I may give it a weaker moderate score.
DNJ is a unique polyhydroxy alkaloid that inhibits alpha-glucosidase, thus potentially useful in diabetes, but white mulberry also reduces cholesterol. White mulberry also contains some potentially useful polysaccharides.

Sencha tea: This is a kind of green tea. I made a hot (about 70-80 Cdeg) tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to about 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I had moderately bloodshot eyes throughout the test, so I don’t think it helps in this regard. I also developed a headache before noon, but it resolved spontaneously by mid-afternoon. Caffeine maybe suspected as a cause as I also drank the usual coffees, however I also drank both in the afternoon as well and even so the headache resolved. I also did not experience a particular anti-depressive effect. I also slept without problems, though of course got up once to take a leak. The morning felt slightly better than usual, but nothing extraordinary. Gut issues appeared weak-moderately better. I think I can give it a weak score at least.

Common mallow/cheeseweed tea (Malva neglecta): I made 3 cups of cold and one cup of hot tea by using about 1.5 tablespoon of herb and consumed them in one day and also had an O. As most often there were some benefits, but they weren’t particularly strong. I think it had a slight benefit on bloodshot eyes, however after O they became really bloodshot anyway and remained so until the morning. Gut issues appeared weak-moderately better. Even so when I woke up in the middle of the night and also in the morning I was somehow feeling myself better than expected. Rhinitis also appeared somewhat reduced, but only by morning. I think it deserves a weak-moderate score.
Some of its constituents are mucliage, tannins, vitamin C, phenols, flavonoids, inulin (in the roots only).

Phosphatidylcholine [385 mg per softgel capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 caps in a day without any sexual activity. Fortunately it proved to be somewhat beneficial contrary to choline chloride, however it was certainly not as useful a phosphatidylserine. Of course it may be the safer choice long-term, but who knows. It was a little useful for the eye symptoms. Specifically the bloodshot eyes were as usual, but the white of the eye appeared a little brighter. In the evening the eye was not so dry as usual, however in the morning I had the usual photophobia if not worse and one of the eyes was a little painful. The sight was also generally blurry. In the morning the first urine was noticeably not burning and rhinitis also appeared better, though sometimes I felt a little chest inflammation fluctuating in-and-out. Depression was rather usual and I couldn’t feel anything like with PS. I could still feel some muscle pain in the morning, even though it was a weekend and I was practically sitting all day. Gut issues also appeared quite better to about a moderate-good level and flatulence was also minimal. A possible side-effect occurred a few hours after the second capsule, when I felt a temporary tingling on the back of the head and neck, but it didn’t seem like anything to really worry about. Everything considered I can give it a moderate score, but even so using such an amount would be rather expensive and other forms may work differently. I guess eating more eggs is reasonable, but I wouldn’t expect a miracle right away.

White Mustard seeds (Sinapis alba): I nibbled 4 coffeespoon worth (about 4x2g=8g) in a day without an O. As I remember I had some mixed experience with mustard creams in the past, so I only eat it very sporadically, but the cream may contain a number of other ingredient like canola oil, so any experience with that doesn’t really prove anything. My current experience left me with mixed feelings. Eye issues remained unchanged throughout the test and they weren’t too good. Gut issues appeared worse at first, but later somewhat better. Interestingly rhinitis appeared quite reduced, however when I got up in the middle of the night I had a stabbing chest pain and in the left breast the lymph nodes were rather inflamed. At the time though mentally I felt myself slightly better than usual, but depression was rather usual during the day and in the morning. The morning also felt rather average, so there wasn’t a significant change. I think I can give it a weak score at least.
White Mustard contains pungent allyl isothiocyanates which may activate both TRPA1 and TRPV1 receptors. It also contains sinapic acid which has an anti-adipogenic property.

Common knotgrass tea (Polygonum aviculare): Another useful weed from the garden. I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day and had an O. I can’t say it proved especially effective for the eyes, but in the afternoon I was feeling myself rather well, so I decided to have an O. The sexual activity also felt rather alright. Even so during masturbation I developed a stronger chest inflammation which felt more like a central pulmonitis this time. I think it had been already present even before masturbation, but by the POIS induction it became stronger. A few hours later it became rather mild at least and remained so until morning. The eyes also became somewhat worse after O, but did not turn too bad. Early morning I actually felt myself somehow better than usual, though in the morning objective symptoms were more close to average. I also developed some colon pain by morning, but otherwise gut issues appeared weak-moderately better. I think the muscles also felt more relaxed than usual as I could move around a little easier. It is rather difficult to evaluate anything in only one day, but I believe it may have a moderate effect at least. I think the chest inflammation was only circumstantial, but the colon pain may have been caused by some shift in POIS. I can’t exclude the possibility that some of its compounds are detrimental.
Some of its constituents: Resveratrol, flavonols (avicularin, myricitrin and juglanin), flavonoids (astragalin and betmidin), lignan (aviculin), diterpene alkaloid (panicudine). Anecdotally it is even recommended for the treatment of prostatic issues. I guess resveratrol could be one of the most active compound, but many of the other constituents also seem to have potent health benefits and some of these could be synergistic.

Stoneroot/Richweed (Collinsonia canadensis) [400 mg root powder per capsule]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. The eyes were rather unchanged and remained averagely bloodshot throughout the test. I could see some benefit on gut issues at least, but it wasn’t great either. In the morning I felt close to an average state, but maybe rhinitis was reduced a little. I expected something better from this, but it may need some time to begin to work. Some people claim that they could notice changes after 48 hours. I give this a weak score for an acute benefit, but if stoneroot really reduces varicose veins than it could be worth taking it even if it doesn’t treat POIS.
Constituents: saponins (Akeboside Stb, collinsonin and collinsonidin), thymol, carvacrol, flavones (2,5-dihydroxy-6,7-dimethoxyflavanone, baicalein-6,7-dimethyl ether, norwogenin-7,8-dimethyl ether and tectochrysin). It is interesting to note that 2,5-dihydroxy-6,7-dimethoxyflavanone is extremely rare and some other sources are Populus nigra and Uvaria rufus. Coincidentally Populus nigra buds are also used traditionally to treat prostatic issues.

(White) kidney bean pod tea: I prepared a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.4 liter of water and drank it along a day without an O. I can’t say it was great, but in the afternoon I was clearly feeling myself better than usual. Unfortunately by evening symptoms once again turned to rather usual, however in the morning I was feeling a bit better than usual even if not too significantly. I think it has a weak benefit on the eyes and a moderate on gut issues. If its effect was more consistent I would give it a moderate score, but this way only a weak-moderate one. The variance could be caused by the presence of a combination of good and bad compounds as well.
The active ingredients of the plant are trigonelline, chromium, arginine, silicic acid derivatives, choline, asparagine, isovaleric acid, cellulose, potassium, phosphorus, vitamin C, hydrocyanic acid, amino acids. Trigonelline is possibly a troublesome compound as it is an agonist of ERa and promotes proliferation. Trigonelline can be also found in coffee.

Common verbena tea (Verbena officinalis): I prepared a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it along a day without an O. I couldn’t notice any rapid action at first. Nevertheless I masturbated some in the afternoon. After that one of the eyes got really bloodshot and remained so until I went to bed. Before going to bed I had noticed that rhinitis was somewhat better than usual. Interestingly when I woke up in the morning I was feeling myself surprisingly well. Especially the airways felt rather clean and I could breathe well. This also made me mentally more aware. I think I could even perceive scents easier. The eyes were only a little better this time, so verbena is probably not effective for this problem though. Gut issues appeared about weak-moderately better. Given how I felt in the morning I have to give it a weaker moderate rating, but of course I can’t tell how circumstantial this was. Some time ago I also tried some verbena candies, however I think they actually made me feel worse, which may have been due to some additives though. So one really needs to test the source first to see if it could be useful.
Constituents: beta-sitosterol, ursolic acid, oleanolic acid, 3-epiursolic acid, 3-epioleanolic acid, iridoid glucosides (verbenalin, verbenin and hastatoside), apigenin, 4'-hydroxywogonin, aucubin, a phenylpropanoid glycoside, verbascoside and beta-sitosterol-D-glucoside, verbenol, tannins, caffeic acid derivatives. Hastatoside and verbenalin have sleep-promoting (soporific) properties.

Black poplar tincture (Populus nigra) [30 drops contain 200 mg black poplar extract, 25 mg vitamin C, min. 35 % alcohol; Rd:30-90 drops]: I took about 120-130 drops in a day and had an O. This is another rather great supplement to treat POIS. I could see a certain benefit after the first dose (30 drops) as my eyes were clearer. I had an O in the afternoon and even after that the eyes only became slightly worse. My sexual performance was more like average or even worse, but once again it was probably circumstantial. In the morning I felt myself really well. I still had some symptoms, but in comparison to a regular morning and especially a first day the difference was quite apparent. Gut issue were better to about a moderate-good degree. One possible side-effect was that the skin on the inside of the mouth was hurt a little after consumption. I think I had some similar experience with some other tinctures, though it is hard to believe that a few drops of alcohol would cause this. Anyway I think it deserves a good score at least.
Black poplar is actually indicated for the treatment of prostatic issues. It was really surprising to find out that black poplar is a good source of pinocembrin. Pinocembrin can be found in Damiana and licorice and it is considered as an aromatase inhibitor meaning that it should increase testosterone while also decreasing estrogen at the same time. This of course actually proves that pinocembrin is a really good treatment for my POIS and it also makes it likely that aromatase inhibitors are similarly so as well.

Modulen IBD [It contains a number of vitamins, minerals, casein, some choline and niacin; 1 serving = 6 scoops =50g; 50g]: I consumed 50g in a day without an O. This is considered a special nutritional supplement for sufferers of IBD and Chron’s disease. The product was expired several years ago, but I had an unopened can, so I thought I would test it one more time before throwing it out. In its appearance it was rather alright at least, but some of the components could have degraded over time. Nevertheless my experience wasn’t anything special. Eye and gut issues didn’t seem any better particularly. Interestingly rhinitis appeared somewhat reduced at least and I also felt slightly better in the morning. Thus I can give it a weak score at least.

Yellow gentian tea (Gentiana lutea): I made a hot tea by adding 2 teaspoons of dried root to about 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. I can’t say I had noticed a striking effect, but as I was not feeling unwell in the afternoon, I thought to have an O. My libido was rather normal, but at least I had a good erection and wasn’t sexually fatigued as in the previous few occasions. Interestingly even after O I couldn’t really notice any significant increase in POIS symptoms. By the time I went to bed I felt the power of POIS a little more, but the eyes were still relatively lightly bloodshot only. In the morning I felt closer to average, but at least better than I would expect from a first day. Gut issues only appeared weakly better though. I think it deserves a weaker moderate score.
The health benefits are most likely due to its bitter compounds which are gentiopicrin (aka gentiopicroside) and amarogentin. Other constituents: gentisin, isogentisin, isovitexin.
Amarogentin is considered an anti-aging compound. Probably in conjuction to this amarogentin activates AMPK to exert beneficial vasculo-metabolic effects.

Manuka propolis [1 pill contains: 50 mg Flavoxale (Manuka honey and propolis), 16 mg Vitamin C; Rd:5]: I consumed 9 pills in a day without an O. I tried this before in a smaller amount, but I couldn’t see that much of a change even then. It seems to be at least a little beneficial, but nothing considerable.
Eye problems and rhinitis were not bad, but I also couldn’t see any particular improvement. Gut issues were weak-moderately better at least. It gets a weak score from me.

Kalory Emergency 1000 (Opuntia ficus indica L., Phaseolus vulgaris, Foeniculum vulgare L.) [1 pill contains: 350 mg Nopal cactus leaf powder, 180 mg phaseolamin, 150 mg fennel seed extract with 0.75 mg volatile oil, 50 ug organic chromium, 25 mg L-Valine, 12.5 mg L-Proline, 12.5 mg L-Tyrosine; Rd:2]: I took 3 pills in a day without an O. The eyes remained lightly bloodshot as they were and only got a little worse by nightfall. Maybe I felt slightly better during the day, but nothing significant. Gut issues were better to about a weak-moderate degree. In the morning I felt mostly as usual or only a bit better, however I also developed some lower back pain which was probably an exercise injury and lasted several days afterwards. Retrospectively I think I ought to do warm ups before doing anything really. I give it a weak-moderate rating. Even though it contains some fennel seeds the other product was certainly more beneficial.

Folic acid + Thiamine (Vitamin B9 + B1) [per pill content: 800 ug folic acid - 10 mg thiamine nitrate; Rd:1,1]: I took 2 pills of each in a day and had an O. I tried them each before separately, but I couldn’t notice anything significant with them. I don’t think it is effective for eye symptoms, though at least they weren’t so bad lately due to another change in lifestyle. The morning felt rather average. I think it has a little benefit on gut issues at least, but it also slowed gut transit, so it is hard to tell how much exactly. I wasn’t particularly depressed in the evening even after O, but it was as usual in the morning, so it may not help at all. Somehow I had less muscle pain in the evening, but I am not certain how circumstantial this was. During masturbation sexual desire was average, but at the same time I had a quite good erection. Unfortunately sexual control was average or below. The most surprising though was that even after O the penis remained rather stimulable, which was particularly unusual. I wonder if this could be related to some conversion of nitrate to NO. I guess I can give it a weak-moderate score, but for me it does not specifically help with the marker symptoms of POIS.

Diclofenac Potassium (Voltaren Dolo): [25 softgel caps; Rd:1-3]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. I was not sure what to expect, but in the end I did not have a significant reaction to it. It doesn’t seem to be effective for eye issues, but it also does not make them worse. I think I experienced some milder mixed effects on gut issues, but everything considered it still had a generally positive effect maybe even to a weak-moderate degree. It may have had a little and temporary anti-depressive effect a few hours after intake, but I am not completely sure. The rhinitis was quite evident by nightfall, so it did not help with that. Unfortunately it also did not help with the lower back pain even if it is indicated to be used specifically for this problem. In the morning I had about the same degree of lower back pain as I had the previous one. At least in the morning I felt myself a little better than usual, so it appears to be a little beneficial overall. I give this a weak score.
Several years ago I had already used Cataflam which contains the same agent. As I recall it caused some really bad gut pain at the time and this was the reason I have decided to never use it again. Of course it is reassuring that no such thing happened this time.

Hoodia (Hoodia gordonii) [500 mg aerial parts 30:1 extract per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took 2 caps (0.5+0.5+1) in a day without an O. It did not appear to have a particular effect on the eyes. At least it improved gut issues, but in the end I can’t really tell how much as I also ate some POIS-mimetic that probably blunted its effect. I also masturbated for a short time in the evening and I had a good libido and erection, but I did not have time for an O. In the morning I felt myself a little better than usual. Rhinitis also seemed at least partially reduced. The lymph nodes were also relaxed. I think I also experienced some cursory anti-depressive effect several hours after intake, but it is hard to tell how certain this is. The only side-effect I could tell was after the first half cap as it caused some stomach discomfort for a short time. I guess I can give it a weak-moderate rating.
It is counted as both an aphrodisiac and an anti-obesity supplement. Unfortunately it may also cause some serious side effects like hypertension. One of the more active compound is probably beta-sitosterol.

Rock salt with herbs: I think this one had more of a negative effect on POIS. Eye and gut symptoms appeared a little worse. I was also depressed in a greater part of the day. One of the herbs was summer savory which could be partly responsible.

Walnuts: Eating walnuts can actually help with POIS, but it is important for the walnut to be good quality. I had a mostly bad experience with it in the past, but the reason was most probably that I often ate bad quality walnuts which were contaminated by fungi or simply too old and rancid. I think it could be also important to not eat it with sugar in cake, just simply in its raw from. Now I ate some in a somewhat greater quantity and I think it is actually beneficial. I don’t think it does anything for eye issues, but gut issues were possibly moderately better. Even more surprisingly it also has some anti-depressive effect.

Rumalaya forte [1 pill contains: 240 mg Boswellia serrata, 200 mg Commiphora wightii, 70 mg Alpinia galanga, 70 mg Glycyrrhiza glabra, 60 mg Tribulus terrestris extract, 60 mg Tinospora cordifolia; Rd:2]: I took 4 pills in a day without an O. It evidently contains herbs that proved rather good before, so it seemed a good choice to try. Somewhat regrettably it was a holiday and I also ate a number of bad stuff like various cakes and nightshade vegetables, so my experience was not perfect.
It had an evident anti-depressive effect about 6 hours after the first capsule. It also ameliorated the eye symptoms, but it couldn’t fully restore it due to the bad things I ate. It also had an evident positive effect on gut issues, however I can’t say how much exactly for the same reason as before. Sometime after the third capsule in the evening I felt some pain in the testicles and on its surface I could see some more pronounced veins. I am not sure though if this was a side-effect of the overdosage or the deleterious effect of the POIS-mimetics I ate. Still I took a fourth cap and in the morning I had a really good erection and my libido felt rather good. I can’t say I felt especially well due to the bad stuff I ate, but the positive change was still clear. A reduction in rhinitis was also evident in the morning. Given how many aphrodisiacs and testosterone boosters are included in this formula, it is a bit surprising to see that it is advertised to improve joint health instead.

Shark cartilage [500 mg powder per capsule; Rd: 4-5]: I took 6 caps in a day without an O. I don’t think it helped with eye symptoms or only minimally. Gut issues were weakly better, but it is hard to tell. I still had the lower back pain which got slightly better by morning, but still did not resolve. I also had an erection when I woke up, but it was less stiff then the previous morning. The nose also felt slightly different than usual, so rhinitis was possibly a little reduced, but it was not a distinct effect. I did some squats in the morning and I think my knee joints worked a little better than usual, though a weak muscle pain could be still felt. It only gets a weak score for POIS treatment, but I think it may be a good supplement to improve joint health.

(D-) Glucuronolactone (aka DGL, but don’t confuse with Deglycyrrhizinated licorice, which may be also shortened so) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps without an O. It did not help with eye symptoms. Gut issues were only weakly better if at all. While I had no particular brain fog to begin with I also could not experience any anti-depressive effects. Instead I got a weak headache about 6 hours after intake, when I would expect a peak effect. Afterward I also worked more than usual in the afternoon and I had developed rather usual exercise intolerance symptoms, so it also did not help with that. The headache resolved on its own by about mid-evening when I took the second capsule. When I woke up cursorily at night I think I may have felt slightly better mentally, but in the morning everything was as usual, meaning I had the same tired eyes and weak depression as pretty much any other day. At least I did not have a headache in the morning, so it may not be a cause after all. I am mostly inclined to say that it is ineffective, but one day is probably too few to claim anything definite.
Glucuronolactone is sometimes added to energy drinks as it is supposed to reduce brain fog. The one I took was instead advertised for liver energy metabolism aid and as a component of the connective tissue.

PQQ (Pyrroloquinoline Quinone) [10 mg PQQ disodium salt per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. I could see some benefit from this one, but it wasn’t strong. I think it helped with eye and gut issues minimally. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the sexual function appeared rather normal. Subsequently the eyes became a little worse though. I don’t think it helped with depression or muscle fatigue either. I can give it a weak score, but Coenzyme Q10 felt better as I recall.
It is said to have a similar effect as Coenzyme Q10 and if combined they may work even better. PQQ is also an inducer of PGC-1a, so this could be one of their shared mechanism.

Chlorella (Chlorella vulgaris) [500 mg per pill, Rd:6]: I took 6 pills in a day without an O. It did not help with eye symptoms at all, however gut issues were about weak-moderately better. This day I had more intensive work and developed rather usual exercise intolerance symptoms. In the afternoon I even masturbated some and the eyes became rather bad afterwards. The morning felt rather usual at least. I think spirulina was slightly better, but I took that longer and the difference may be only circumstantial. It deserves a weak score at least.
Chlorella is a source of chlorophyll, vitamin A/B3/B12/D and iron.

Septilin [Composition of 6 pills: 972 mg Balsamodendron mukul, 192 mg Conch shell calx,  390 mg Maharasnadi quath (a blend of 26 other herbs), 294 mg Tinospora cordifolia, 192 mg Rubia cordifolia, 96 mg Emblica officinalis, 96 mg Moringa pterygosperma, 36 mg Glycyrrhiza glabra; Rd: 3-6]: I took 8 pills in day and had an O. It had a weak benefit on the eyes, but it wasn’t that strong. Gut issues may be moderately better, but it is rather hard to say in such a short amount of time. This day I also had rather bad exercise intolerance once again and its combination with POIS was probably too much to handle. At least the sexual function felt rather improved. I had a good erection, control and endurance, though sexual desire was rather average. I did not experience a distinct anti-depressive effect, but in the morning while half-asleep I felt mentally more acute, but this was less so when I actually got up. In the morning my usual tinnitus felt louder as with some other supplements that have a better effect. I am not sure of the cause of this shift, but maybe it could be due to improved circulation. Somehow Septilin reminded me to astaxanthin without vitamin E. Septilin did not appear as strong as Rumalaya forte coming from the same producer. I think it deserves a moderate-good score.

MACA (Nowfoods) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1-3]: I took 6 in a day without an O. Similarly to the previous days I suffered from exercise intolerance due to excessive work. Even so it managed to noticeably reduce bloodshot eyes, though not completely, but only to a moderate degree. Gut issues were also about moderately better. I could not experience a distinct anti-depressive effect as with the extract version, but at least I felt myself a little better in the morning. Muscle fatigue was also as usual, but rhinitis was reduced a little. It is certainly not the best MACA product that I have tried so far, but it still provides some noticeable benefit nonetheless. I guess it deserves a moderate-good score.

Celery seed (Apium graveolens) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:3]: I took 3 caps in a day and had an O. I mistook it with parsley last time, so I needed to test this as well. Interestingly it has an adverse effect on my eyes, which happens in about two hours and is much reminiscent to what I usually experience with coffee meaning a temporary flare in bloodshot eyes that gets a little better after 1 or 2 hours. I had an O in the late afternoon. Well the sexual function appeared rather normal as I could not notice either an improvement or deterioration in it. Sexual desire was rather average as well. After O I had developed rather bloodshot eyes, so it was really not effective in this regard. In the morning however I was feeling myself more like on an average day as POIS symptoms weren’t that bad. It also seemed to have a mixed effect on gut issues as stool quality appeared better than usual, but the burning pain was possibly a little worse. I also felt generally depressed, so it did not have an effect on that. I think I have to put it in the mixed category. It is clear that some of its constituents should be good for me, however it also contains components that may adversely effect POIS. One suspect could be coumarin, but there may be others. It is also rather unclear which compound could be responsible for the aphrodisiac effect (for women). 
Constituents: Beta-carotene, vitamin C, manganese, apigenin, phenolic acids, flavones, flavonols, limonene, luteolin, coumarin, isocnidilide, n-butylphthalide.

Urinary tract support tincture [Extract composition per 4ml: 200 mg garden nasturtium, 80 mg hairy willowherb, 80 mg lingonberry, 60 mg silver birch, 60 mg Tribulus, 60 mg Spirulina, 20 mg Echinacea; Rd: 2x2ml]: I took 6 ml in a day without an O. It certainly helped with eye symptoms, though the experience was spoiled by some other circumstances. Gut issues were also quite better to about a moderate-good degree. I also felt some anti-depressive effect even if not too strongly. One problem that occurred though when I ate something bad in the afternoon which got my eye really bloodshot afterwards, however when the second dose was beginning to take effect later they clearly got a little better again as I had seen with the first dose around noon. I also had to do physical work at night this day, which is an extremely bad combination for me. Surely symptoms got worse as I had toiled, however by the time I went home they were not critical possibly due to a portion I took before work. I also took a portion before going to sleep and in the morning I felt relatively well even though I only slept a little which is another critical POIS inducer. Rhinitis also appeared improved in the morning. I guess it deserves a good score. The individual contribution of the herbals is not clear, however garden nasturtium seems to be an interesting addition as it was traditionally used to treat urinary and genital infections.

Molybdenum [400 ug molybdenum glycinate chelate per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps in a day without an O. I don’t think it improved eye problems, but it seemed to help with gut issues somewhat. I also masturbated in the afternoon and the sexual function appeared improved, but this could have been due to the tincture from the previous day as well. In regard of gut issues it also caused more than average flatulence, which is not a good thing when considering its low efficacy. I also felt some slight heart strain during masturbation, but this could have been due to the lack of sleep. During the night though at some point it felt like the heart was beating stronger than usual, so it may still have some effect on the organ, however it is not clear if this is an improvement or a detriment. I don’t think taking excessive mineral dosages would be a good idea anyway. I think it deserves a weak or weak-moderate score, but it is impossible to determine based on only one day. I think any effects of molybdenum are most likely in conjunction with xanthine oxidase.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on May 30, 2023, 09:12:05 AM

Grapefruit seed extract tincture (Citrus paradisi) [45 drops contain 0.5 mg Citrus bioflavonoid, which is rich in naringin; Rd: 45 drops]: I took 60 drops in a day with an O. This had a positive effect on the eyes, but only weakly. It was also useful for gut issues about moderately. In the afternoon I had an O. Sexual function was rather normal, though I had a good erection and sexual desire was rather average. After O the eyes still became worse and mostly remained so until morning. I don’t think it had a particular effect on depression or muscle fatigue. I think it deserves a moderate score. By the way it has a nice taste when put in milk and coffee with sugar, but not in either of them alone.

Buchu leaf extract (Agathosma betulina) [100 mg 1:4 extract per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took three caps in a day without an O. It did not appear to help with eyes issues, though they remained low in intensity. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. At night and in the morning the urine felt to burn less, but the difference was not so striking. In the morning I woke with a weaker erection, so it may have some positive effect in this regard. It did not have an anti-depressive effect. I am not sure about side-effects, but I felt a kind of tension on the back of my head in the evening, though I also drank a lot of coffee in the afternoon and it may have been that. I feel I can give this a weak-moderate score.
Buchu can supposedly treat kidney and urinary tract infections, urethritis, prostatitis, though its toxic compounds may not make it suitable for long-term treatment.
Constituents: the hepatotoxin pulegone, diosphenol (aka buchu camphor), limonene, methone, terpinen-4-ol and p-menthan-3-on-8-thiol, flavonoids (diosmetin, quercetin, diosmin, quercetin-3,7-diglucoside and rutin), mucilage, resin, thiamine, sulfur compounds and possibly coumarins as well.

Zhu Ling Mushroom (Polyporus umbellatus) [400 mg mycelium and fruiting body per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. It had some positive effect on eye issues, as I was doing quite a lot of work this day and even after finishing the eyes were relatively lightly bloodshot. I also had muscle fatigue, but it may not have been so bad as usual. I also masturbated some afterwards. I had a good erection, but I was not really in the mood otherwise, probably due to general fatigue so the sexual performance was rather average. Gut issues were possibly moderately better, however I also ate something bad and possibly this was the reason I felt rather usually in the morning. Rhinitis also felt reduced at least. I could not experience a distinct anti-depressive effect and even in the morning it felt more like usual in this regard. I think it deserves a moderate score.
Polyporus umbellatus is considered a good source of ecdysteroids, though other sources proved better for me previously.

Common agrimony tea (Agrimonia eupatoria): I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoons of herb to about 1.5 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I don’t think it had a particular benefit on the eyes, though I had exercise intolerance in the afternoon and the eyes remained generally the same. It did not have an anti-depressive effect and the muscle fatigue also felt usual. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better though. The morning felt rather usual, but at least I had some spontaneous erections, so the libido was recovering nicely. I can only give this a weaker score, but it may combine well with other teas especially as it appears one of the safer teas and it has some nice constituents.
Constituents: volatile oils, flavonoids, apigenin, luteolin, quercetin, kaempferol, tiliroside, triterpene glycosides (euscaphic acid and tormentic acid), phenolic acids, and 3%–21% tannins, silicic acid (10-12%), bitters, mucilage.
It may be a good substitute to regular tea and it is supposedly safe to consume long-term.

Common thyme tea (Thymus vulgaris): I made a hot tea by adding a big tablespoon of herb to about 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I was a bit surprised that it proved rather good for eye symptoms. After work the muscle fatigue felt rather usual. I don’t think it had an anti-depressive effect or only a slight one. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the sexual function felt rather usual. Afterwards the eyes did not become more bloodshot, but they felt drier and a bit tired though. Rhinitis was reduced as the nose felt more relaxed than usual. Gut issues felt about weak-moderately better, though I ate something bad again (a dish with tomato sauce), which spoiled the experience. I think thyme deserves a moderate-good score nevertheless.
Constituents: the most active are thymol (40%) and carvacrol (15%), besides these linalool, alpha-terpineol, and 1,8-cineole, borneol, p-cymene, tannins (10%), bitters, saponins can be also found in it.

Guarana (Paullinia cupana) [500 mg seed extract per pill containing 110 mg (22%) caffeine; Rd:1]:
I took 2.5 pills in a day and had an O. I have already tried this in the past, but I couldn’t see much of a difference, so I skipped on it. Similarly as before after the first pill I couldn’t see any difference even though I also consumed my regular 2 cups of morning coffee as well. I had exercise intolerance during work, but the eyes only became a little worse. In the early afternoon I also drank another 2 cups of coffee besides the second pill. Later I had an O. The sexual function seemed rather average and my libido was actually lower than usual. I almost reconsidered before O as it felt like it is going to be a bad episode. One of the eyes became bloodshot and the eyes felt tired which usually means that after O it will be even worse. Strangely though the catastrophe did not occur and the symptoms remained rather usual. I think the reason was that the second pill was beginning to take effect and this somewhat blunted the damage. Symptoms were only getting worse by the time I went to bed when I took the third (half) pill. I slept 5 hours when I woke up and felt relatively well. My mind felt clearer than usual and I also had a morning wood. After taking a leak I did not manage to fall asleep again though and was kind of half-asleep for two hours while partly fantasizing about women. Even so in the morning I still felt rather alright at least. Gut issues were weak-moderately better. A possible side-effect I felt not much after O was a kind of cramping pain possibly of the blood vessels that I felt mostly in one of my foot. I did not experience heart issues though.
While guarana has a benefit it feels rather subdued and not as clear as I would expect from caffeine.
I am also rather sure that my coffee related eye problems are not due to caffeine, but rather due to some other compounds like cafestol.

Wild strawberry leaves tea (Fragaria vesca): I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoons of herb to about 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I think it is a little useful, but it was not remarkable. The eye symptoms remained relatively low, but still I could only see a little benefit if at all. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. Depression or muscle fatigue remained as usual. I had a few hours of night work and pronounced exercise intolerance symptoms did not occur at least. It has a weak or weak-moderate benefit.
Constituents: flavonoids (quercetin), tannins (ellagitannins), caffeic acid derivatives, citrate, triterpene alcohol, and traces of essential oil. F. vesca contains the ellagitannin agrimoniin which is an isomer of sanguiin H-6.

Common sorrel tea (Rumex acetosa): I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoons of herb to about 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day and had an O. I drank only 1 liter of of the tea when I decided to skip on it, though I still had an O at the time. I could not see any significant initial reaction and then I masturbated some in the afternoon when the sexual function felt rather average and the control was rather poor as I almost came rather soon. I grew a bit frustrated due to this and decided to try the next item instead, which was blackthorn tea. I drank a cup of sorrel tea than an hour later a cup of blackthorn tea and another hour later I had an O. This time around due to persistent edging the control improved and the erection was also rather alright. Well I expected a usual POIS episode, but I was a bit surprised when symptoms only got a little worse after O and then later they actually got a little better. Now I can’t really say which one helped more, but after checking their phytochemical composition it may have been due to the extra amount of polyphenols that can be found in both. I think common sorrel alone deserves a weak-moderate score, but together with blackthorn flower they likely have a moderate effect.
Constituents: anthraquinones, polyphenols, oxalates, naphthalene, tannins, vitamin A and C.

Blackthorn flower tea (Prunus spinosa): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 0.6 liter of water and drank it twice. I drank it before and after O as said previously. In the morning I felt more like on a chronic day meaning it helped somewhat, but the effect wasn’t particularly strong. I made another cup of tea in the morning with one tablespoon of herb. During work the eyes got a little more bloodshot, however by the time I was going home they got a little better and were only lightly bloodshot which is the most common for me. Interestingly around this time I also felt a little better mentally, though I can’t say I had experienced a distinct anti-depressive effect. Muscle fatigue was mostly as usual. Gut issues also appeared a little better. I guess it deserves a weak-moderate score.
Blackthorn flower is indicated for the treatment of urinary tract disorders, inflammation, and adjunctive therapy of cardiovascular diseases. Constituents: polyphenols, flavonoid pentosides (arabinosides, xylosides, rhamnosides), A-type procyanidin dimers, anthocyanins, coumarins, and phenolic acids.

Common melilot/Sweet clover (Melilotus officinalis): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 0.8 liter of water and drank it during a day without an O. It did not help with eye symptoms at all, but they weren’t worse either. In the morning the urine burned a little less and the rhinitis also felt slightly better. Gut issues appeared a little better at first, however the morning stool was burning more so than usual and around this time I developed a bad chest inflammation that was already present when I woke up, but only with weak intensity. I think common melilot either has a weak benefit or goes to the mixed effect category. Interestingly it had a pleasant sweet taste which if I recall right was very similar to what I had experienced with sweet woodruff tea. Coumarin is evidently a sweet aromatic compound, but in the body it is converted into dicoumarol, which is a powerful anticoagulant toxin that may lead to internal hemorrhaging and death. At least common melilot is also used in the treatment of varicose issues, but it may be better to only use it externally to avoid its toxicity.
Constitutes: Coumarin, coumaric acid, melilotic acid (dihydro-o-coumaric acid), caffeic acid and mucilage.

Ambroxol (bromhexin) [30 mg ambroxol hydrochloride per pill; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3.5 pills in a day without an O. Unfortunately in the morning I had developed a stronger chest inflammation. I worked outdoors and the chest inflammation appeared to improve a few hours later. However as the last part of work I had to do the odd job of spraying pesticide in a greater amount. Around this time the chest inflammation got worse again, but this may have been due to exercise intolerance as well. When I arrived home I felt myself a little bit better mentally at least. I also masturbated a little in the afternoon, but the libido and sexual function was rather poor. After masturbation the eyes got a little bit worse, however interestingly the chest inflammation noticeably improved around this time. In the morning the eye symptoms were as usual, so I don’ think it helps in this regard. At least the chest inflammation resolved about 90% as I could only feel some residual pain. I also had some nasal congestion in the morning, which usually feels to be a clearance symptom of the respiratory tract, but rhinitis only felt weakly better at most. Gut issues may have been weakly better, but nothing significant there either. I can only give this a weak score as for general POIS treatment, but it could be useful in the treatment of chest inflammation at least. Also as it is an autophagy inducer it may have long-term benefits as well.
Recent research showed that it may be also useful in the treatment of Parkinsonism, which I guess could be due to the increased autophagy as well. Bromhexin is also a selective inhibitor of TMPRSS2 and thus could play a protective role in prostate cancer and some viral infections.

Stephania (Stephania tetrandra) [100% root powder]: I couldn’t really find relevant dosage information, so I took with 3 coffeespoons which may equal to about 3-4 grams. Its taste was somewhat bitter and the drink was foamy which likely implies the presence of saponins. In this regard it made me recall shatavari, so I decided to put it in milk. At first it appeared to have some nice anti-inflammatory effect. My eyes seemed clearer and even cognitively I felt better in a few hours. In the afternoon I had an O. The sexual function was certainly better than the day before, but I also had a hard time cumming. The ejaculate was burning once again, but this was probably an accumulated effect from the previous days. Around this time the ass and thigh felt a little more relaxed and I could also move a little easier than usual. Eye symptoms got a little worse later though. Unfortunately in the morning I wasn’t feeling much better than usual either, so in the end POIS was probably too much to handle for the supplement. Gut issues were possibly a bit better, but I also ate something with mixed effects on gut issues (yellow pea dish), so it is impossible to tell. Based on the current trial run I can give stephania a moderate rating.
Stephania is frequently used in the treatment of Lyme disease, but it also has a potent health benefit regardless. One of the issues though is that it may be not safe to use long-term due to possible liver damage.

Pine pollen: I took 3 coffeespoon worth in a day without on O. I have already tried this some time ago, but for some reason I developed a bad chest inflammation right sometime after the first dose (half teaspoon), so I was rather reluctant to test it again. This time I didn’t experience anything such even though I took a greater dose and I was just through a similar episode. Even so pine pollen seemed hardly any effective. Unfortunately I also ate an evident POIS-mimetic (dried cherries in cake) this day, so my symptoms were mostly worse actually. The eye symptoms were rather bad, so pine pollen probably does not do anything in this regard. I am also rather unsure about gut issues, but it probably has either a weak benefit or provides mixed effects. In the morning I felt rather usually. I did not masturbate due to the bad symptoms, but in the late afternoon I had noticed some increase in libido at least. For now I would rather put this in the ineffective category.
Pine pollen is supposed to increase testosterone, but it may be either not the best for this purpose or simply needs more time to act. I think the product was good quality, but it was only meant to be used for the skin and not internally, so this may have been another problem as who knows if it contained some other foreign stabilizer compounds in the package.

Valeriana root (Valeriana officinalis) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. 
Interestingly after the first capsule in the morning I felt myself noticeably better, as I experienced some weaker anti-depression and then the eyes also got noticeably less bloodshot. However this did not happen after the second capsule as symptoms got visibly worse. I suspect it was due to the plum cake I ate around noon. In the afternoon and evening I had the same old depression and one of the eyes was really bloodshot. Muscle pain could be still felt even though I was practically sitting all day. I can’t say I slept too well, but I had no problems either. In the morning the eyes were still as bloodshot as usual with regular photophobia. Gut issues were about weakly better, but nothing significant there either. Interestingly the first urine in the morning was noticeably less burning than usual, so it may be actually useful for this problem. I think it deserves a weak-moderate score. 

Schizandra tincture (Schizandra chinensis) [35% alcohol, Schizandra fruit extract, vitamin C; Rd: 3x1-2 ml (45-90 drops)]: So this is a different Schizandra product compared to earlier. Unfortunately this one hardly seemed any useful for eye symptoms. It also did not have an effect on muscle pain. In the evening I felt some transient cramps in the crotch and arms, which may be a side-effect. The force of the urine may have been a bit better though. Gut issues seemed a little better. I was really surprised when waking up at night as I felt quite well. I felt better mentally and the burning pain was reduced both in the urine and gut. In the morning though photophobia was regular and the eyes were averagely bloodshot. I guess Schizandra only starts to work slowly and may need some time to develop its full potential. Schizandra has a weak-moderate benefit in an acute setting, but I believe it may still have some use in the longer term.

Desmodium [200 mg per capsule; Rd:3]: I took 4 capsules in a day without an O. I have already tried this some time ago and while it has some benefit, it is just not that significant. The eyes did not improve or only weakly. After work muscle fatigue was as usual. I also masturbated some in the afternoon and the eye symptoms became quite worse afterwards. The sexual function was rather alright, but nothing special and the control wasn’t so good as I was close to cumming despite my intentions. At least gut issues appeared weak-moderately better. I can give this a weak-moderate rating.

Green coffee with chromium [1 pill contains: 200 mg green coffee extract (20:1), 100 mg chlorogenic acid, 2mg caffeine, 50ug chromium; Rd:2]: This time I took 3 pills without an O. I have already tried this some time ago, when it caused some heart pain, which made me stop the test. Fortunately I had no such problems this time. I don’ think it has any particular benefit on the eyes or only a minimal one at the peak of its effect. I am quite sure that it has no anti-depressive effect either. The muscle pain felt as usual after work. I masturbated some in the afternoon and the sexual performance was rather average. The eyes also became more bloodshot afterwards which forebodes insufficiency. In the evening I ate some cooked sour cabbage that messed up my gut issues somewhat. Though green coffee may still have a weak benefit on it. At least the morning felt quite as usual.

Provence wild flowers spice blend [Ingredients: hibiscus, elderflower, cornflowers, lavender, orange blossom, thyme flowers and leaves, violet, Erica and yarrow flowers]: It is recommended as a spice blend for cooking, but I decided to make a tea instead as it contains a number of nice herbs. I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water which I drank in a day and had an O. I think it had at least a moderate benefit on eye symptoms as even after O they only became a little worse. The sexual function felt rather average and I was a bit exhausted from the previous days and yet I could last for a relatively long time, so it wasn’t bad at least. Gut issues were also about moderately better. I don’t think I had experienced an anti-depressive effect though. When I got up at night I had a mixed experience as the urine was not burning and the rhinitis seemed reduced, however I also had a sore throat and one of the eyes was really painful. The morning felt rather average and the sore throat disappeared. It may get a moderate score, but it clearly can’t overcome every symptom and it may also cause some shifts in POIS.

Cistanche (Cistanche tubulosa) [Ingredients in one capsule: 210 mg Cistanche extract (stem, leaf) [std. to 22% echinacosides], 2 mg Vitamin C (as ascorbyl palmitate); Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. The eyes while not perfect were rather alright throughout the whole day. I even masturbated some in the evening and the eyes only got slightly worse, so I think it has about a moderate benefit on the eyes. Gut issues were weakly or weak-moderately better, but not especially. The sexual function felt rather average, but I was still exhausted from the previous days and sexual desire was below average. I couldn’t notice a distinct anti-depressive effect and the muscle fatigue was also rather average. When I woke up in the middle of the night I had a firm erection, even though I was rather spent in the previous evening. I was feeling rather alright, but not especially well though. In the morning I had the usual photophobia and a little bloodshot eyes. There was also some nasal congestion and rhinitis may have been reduced a little, but not significantly. I may give this a moderate-good score, but it probably needs more time to exert a greater benefit.
Cistanche is a known testosterone booster and may be also used in the treatment of CFS. It is supposed to have a slower, but smoother onset in its effects than more common testosterone boosters. Even though the product came from LifeExtension the amount of acteoside was not specified, so this may be not the best Cistanche product on the market despite the brand name.

Wild herbs spice blend [Ingredients: sea salt, leek, lovage, wild garlic, elderflower, nettle, fenugreek, sage, watercress, thyme, peppermint, cornflower blossoms]: Another spice blend that I made a tea from, though due to the salt it tasted more like a soup. I prepared the tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of hot water which I drank in a day without an O. I think it had some protective effect on the eyes, though it wasn’t that clearly restorative. In the afternoon I experienced an increased libido, so I masturbated some. I was still a little tired sexually, but the sexual function was rather alright and maybe even a bit better than usually. After some precum the eyes noticeably got worse though. However later as the previous drink began to take effect they improved a little and stabilized. I even felt a little better mentally in the evening, though it was not a distinct anti-depression. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. In the morning I felt slightly better than usual, but it wasn’t a significant difference. It gets a weak-moderate score.
Besides fenugreek lovage is another aphrodisiac in the combination and it may have a greater part in the overall effect in my opinion.

Levocetirizine dihydrochloride (Zilola) [5 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: Some people found it to be more effective than regular cetirizine, so I also wanted to test it. It showed some benefit, however it wasn’t that particularly useful. I couldn’t really see much of a difference in the beginning as during work I had regular exercise intolerance symptoms. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the sexual function seemed rather usual. Later I have also developed somewhat more bloodshot eyes, but they weren’t really bad. I woke up early in the morning and couldn’t resume sleeping. At least photophobia seemed reduced somewhat and I was feeling mentally better. Bloodshot eyes were rather regular though. Gut issues were also better, but only to about a weak-moderate degree. My last test with cetirizine had a little better effect on gut issues, but the difference may be only circumstantial. 

Tarragon/estragon (Artemisia dracunculus): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to about 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. This day I had somewhat more work and exercise intolerance induced symptoms were as much as expected. I don’t think this tea did any harm to my eyes, but they were also not better either. Muscle fatigue and depression were as usual. I sneezed quite a lot this day, but the reason was probably the vivid sunshine and that I was a bit tired. Gut issues were either weakly better or it had a mixed effect, but it is difficult to say for sure. The morning felt very usual. The urine was possibly burning a little less and rhinitis may have been slightly reduced, but these were not significant changes and other symptoms were just as always. I think I would rather regard this as ineffective or a little mixed effect both ways.
Interestingly it had a little sweetish taste which reminded me to the other teas with coumarin. Estragole and trans-anethole may induce aromatase (CYP19) and are possible carcinogens.
Constituents: essential oil: mainly: estragole, sabinene, methyl eugenol and elemicin; secondarily: terpinen-4-ol, beta-ocimene, cis-ocimene, alpha-trans-ocimene, limonene and trans-anethole, alpha-phellandrene, beta-phellandrene (Z)-artemidin, capillene; coumarins (herniarin), flavonoids (quercetin, kaempferol, luteolin, isorhamnetin, naringenin, annagenin, pinocembrin and estragonoside), phenolic acids (chlorogenic acid, caffeic acid and vanillic acid), etc.

Kola Nut, Catuaba and Guarana (Cola acuminata, Trichilia catigua, Paullinia cupana) [225 mg Kola nut seed, 225 mg Catuaba bark, 225 mg Guarana seed; Rd:1-3]: I took 4 caps in a day with an O. I can’t quite recall my exact experience with Catuaba earlier, but this time it wasn’t so great. Nevertheless it was a good experience as this product could somewhat ameliorate eye problems (possibly weak-moderately). However I couldn’t experience a distinct anti-depressive effect, though sometimes I was feeling a bit better than usual. I had a moderate workload during the day and exercise intolerance was similarly so. In the afternoon I decided to have an O, though sexual desire felt rather average. The sexual function was rather alright at least as I had a good erection and endurance and control seemed better than average. After O the eye symptoms remained low and while I could notice an increase in general POIS inflammation it wasn’t so bad as usual. I could sleep relatively well, though when I got up in the middle of the night I had a little sore throat, but this resolved rather soon after I drank some water. The eyes were also a bit dry, just like in the morning, but the photophobia wasn’t so bad and the eyes were only weakly bloodshot. In the morning I could still feel some rhinitis and also had a weak nasal congestion. While I was not perfectly well, I felt relatively relaxed.
Gut issues were evidently better, but only to a moderate degree. I think this product is potentially good, but one day is clearly not enough to manifest its full power.
It is advertised as a caffeine source, but the amount is not specified. Guarana and Kola Nut are indeed counted as sources of caffeine, however Catuaba bark is not. I also drank my usual 4 cups of coffee this day. I still believe that Catuaba alone has a greater benefit than any amount of caffeine, but some people could be interested to try such a combination regardless.

Chitosan [500 mg per capsule and 50 mg vitamin C (as L-ascorbic acid); Rd:1]: I took 4 pills in a day without an O. I have already tried this a long time ago. If I remember well it helped with gut issues somewhat at the time without anything significant otherwise. My current experience was much similar. I don’t think it had any particular effect on eye issues. It may have had about a weak-moderate benefit on gut issues. Otherwise it was not remarkable, so I can only give it a weak score.
Chitosan is recommended as a way to decrease cholesterol, though studies claim it has only a slight benefit in this regard. It may also absorb toxins in the digestive tract, which makes it an interesting choice.

Butterbur (Petasites hybridus) [75 mg root extract per capsule (standardized to 15% S-petasin) (free of pyrrolizidine alkaloids) (NMT 5ppm); Rd: 2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. It seemed to reduce eye issues about moderately. In the afternoon I also masturbated some, though the desire was not great. The sexual function was rather alright, but it was not particularly good though. My eyes only got slightly worse afterwards and even later they actually got better. In the morning I was relatively alright, though not perfectly well. Rhinitis was possibly a little reduced, but it could be still felt somewhat. Gut issues were weak-moderately better. As a possible side-effect sometimes I felt some discomfort around the liver and at other times some transient mild pain could be felt here and there, but nothing considerable. This product should not contain any toxic alkaloids, but it may be not ruled out completely. Given this and the side-effect it may be not the safest supplement. Nevertheless I think it was moderately useful for POIS. Petasites exert anti-adipogenic activity, inhibit the opening of L-type voltage-gated calcium channels and COX-2.

Celeriac pills [333 mg granulated cellery root (50%) per pill; Rd: 2-3x2]: I took 8 pills in a day without an O. My eyes remained rather alright throughout the day, except after the evening shower, and yet it did not feel like it actually improved the condition. I also developed a mild chest inflammation in the evening. The morning felt rather usual. The rhinitis was possibly a little better. Gut issues may have been somewhat better, but I think I also ate something bad and the overall experience was spoiled. I think it has a weak benefit, but nothing considerable otherwise. At least compared to celery seed I am quite certain that the root does not induce any eye symptoms.

L-ornithine [700 mg Ornithine HCl per capsule; Rd: 1]: I have already tried this a long time ago when it gave me quite a bad heart ache. This time I had no problems after the first capsule, but about an hour after the second capsule I had some minor heart complaint. Otherwise I couldn’t notice any significant change. I also developed a lower back pain, but I am not sure if this could be related to the supplement. At least the eyes remained rather alright throughout the day. Gut issues were also better, but overall only weakly. In the morning I felt mostly as usual. I think it has a weak benefit. Ornithine may increase urea, but at least the urine was not burning particularly more than usual, so it is probably not the cause. L-ornithine is also a key precursor for polyamines like spermidine, thus it may indirectly induce autophagy.

Bavarian Herbal Bitters [1 capsule contains: 162.5 mg artichoke leaf, 51.75 mg dandelion root, 41 mg gentian root, 29.5 mg turmeric rhizome, 29.5 mg yarrow flower, 20 mg ginger rhizome, 18.5 mg chamomile flower tops, 18.5 mg fennel seed, 15 mg orange peel, 7.5 mg blessed thistle aerial parts; Rd: 2]: I took 4 caps in a day without an O. I had a greater workload during the morning and exercise intolerance symptoms were mostly as usual, though the bloodshot eyes weren’t so bad. In the afternoon I masturbated some. The sexual function felt rather average. Afterwards one of the eyes became quite bloodshot, but later it got better. Even later I watched some porn again and both eyes got more bloodshot, which remained partly so even by morning. Given this I think it has only a slight benefit on the eyes if at all and only when the POIS push is not strong. Gut issues seemed about moderately better, which shows that it may be more useful when taken longer. In the morning I felt mostly as usual, but I was not unwell. I also slept relatively well. I can give this a weak-moderate score, but it was less useful than I had anticipated.

Ipriflavone complex [1 pill contains: 2.5 ug Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol), 300 mg calcium (from calcium citrate and carbonate), 150 mg Ostivone (ipriflavone – 7-isopropoxyisoflavone), 0.75 mg boron (as boron citrate, glycinate and aspartate); Rd:2]: I took 3 pill in a day and had an O. In the morning I had exercise intolerance due to heavy work, but the symptoms did not become much worse. Actually I felt myself a little better around noon. I think it only had a minimal impact on the eyes and its effect was more like a protective one and not a restorative kind. Gut issues were evidently better, but in short term only weak-moderately. During the masturbation the sexual function felt rather average, though I was also a bit fatigued from the previous days. After O the eyes got somewhat more bloodshot, but not terribly and remained so. When I got up in the middle of the night I definitely felt more aware mentally. The urine was less burning and the rhinitis was quite reduced. The eyes felt rather dry though. In the morning I still felt myself better than usual, though not perfectly of course. I also had some spontaneous erection in the morning, so the libido was recovering nicely.
Ideally I would have wanted to try the NowFood product as it only contains ipriflavone, but even the Swanson product was difficult to obtain. While evidently useful it is not clear how much ipriflavone contributes. Ipriflavone is actually an ERbeta preferential agonist and ERbeta should have a greater role in bone formation than ERalpha. I still can’t comprehend my exquisitely bad reaction to the POIS-mimetic poppy seeds that should be really good for bone health otherwise. I have also never had any issues with my bones, but this may be due to the slightly elevated estradiol level.

Genius sleep aid [ingredients in 1 capsule: 500 mg L-Glycine, 50 mg L-theanine, 50 mg Rutacarpine (Evodia Rutaecarpa) [fruit] powder, 50 mg Inositol, 0.25 mg melatonin; Rd:2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. I don’t think it was particularly effective for eye symptoms as the bloodshotness was fluctuating between a little worse and usual (normally bad). Actually during the day I couldn’t really note any significant change. At least I could sleep through the night without waking up, but I still woke up in the morning feeling close to usual. When waking up I think I felt myself slightly better mentally, but the previous ipriflavone complex was certainly better in this regard. I had the usual photophobia and regular bloodshot eyes in the morning. At least gut issues seemed better, but overall only weak-moderately. The first urine was also notably burning less unlike the previous day. Rhinitis was perhaps a little reduced, but once again the ipriflavone complex was certainly better in this regard.
With this particular formula I mostly wanted to test rutacarpine, as I could not find any standalone products. Rutacarpine is a TRPV agonist, but otherwise have numerous claimed health benefits. While some of the other constituents were somewhat beneficial, they are not in a great amount in this particular product.

Trehalose [powder; Rd: 5-10g]: I consumed 15 g in one day without an O. I don’t think it had any particular effect on the eyes. The day was mostly uneventful. I slept through the night without waking up, but I think this was due to some positive effect on the bladder. The first urine was greater in quantity and only slightly burning, which may mean that it could have some benefit on irritable bladder. The morning felt a little better than usual, but not remarkably so. Gut issues were better, but only weakly. It only gets a weak score for overall POIS treatment, but it may have a use in fixing bladder issues.

Ultimate Women's Intimate Performance [1 pill contains: 8.3 mg NE niacin, 91.43 mg panax ginseng root powder, 33.3 mg cayenne pepper (fruit), 33.3 mg damiana leaf, 33.3 mg dong quai extract (root), 33.3 mg ginger root, 33.3 mg L-arginine HCl, 33.3 mg muira puama root, 19.97 mg licorice root extract (20% GA), 18.95 mg guarana seed husk extract (22% alkaloids), 16.65 mg Avena sativa (oats) 10:1 extract, 8.57 mg panax ginseng extract (70% ginsenosides), 8.3 mg chasteberry extract (0.5% agnuside), 8.3 mg black cohosh root extract, 8.3 mg ovary extract]; Rd:3]: I took 3 pills in a day without an O. I actually wanted to have an O, but circumstances intervened, so I can’t really say how it affects sexual activity. I had to work more, but at least the exercise intolerance symptoms weren’t so bad during work. Later though after a shower one of the eyes became really bad and both seemed rather average by morning, so I can’t really say that the product helped at all with this issue. I think it had a mixed effect on gut issues. While it had some anti-inflammatory effect the stool was quite burning which is a bad sign for my case. Depression and muscle fatigue were mostly as usual. Frankly I expected more from this product as I had success with most constituents, but either the time was too short or there were problematic compounds. The pill itself was spicy, hot and cayenne pepper due to its pungency might have canceled the positive effects of the other compounds. Licorice and muira puama gave me heart issues earlier, but I had no such problems this time at least. The ovary extract certainly sounds a peculiar ingredient and it could be suspected for a negative leverage.

Copper Glycinate [1 pill contains: 3 mg copper from 30 mg copper bisglycinate, 50 mg organic blend of cauliflower, spinach, carrot, beet, tomato, blueberry, cranberry, cherry, raspberry, strawberry]: I took 1.5 pills in a day without an O. I couldn’t notice any particular change during the day. In the afternoon I had some work that resulted in regular exercise intolerance symptoms. Besides the muscle pain the eyes were relatively alright by the end of work, but once again they became worse after showering. I also had a few hours of evening work as well, after which the eyes were really bad and I felt quite hazy.
In the morning I felt mostly as usual with one of the eyes being quite bloodshot. Gut issues weren’t particularly better either, so I am inclined to say that copper is ineffective when taken acutely.

Selenium [100 ug per pill as L-Selenomethionine; Rd:1]: I took 1.5 pill in a day without an O. It did not help with eye symptoms after exercise intolerance. In the evening I also masturbated some. The libido and erection were rather good, but the control and endurance wasn’t so as I almost came without intention. The eyes remained somewhat poor after that. In the middle of the night and in the morning the rhinitis felt noticeably reduced. The morning felt mostly as usual though. Gut issues were only weakly better. Truth be told I also ate some sweets containing cardamom, so it may have been partly responsible for the beneficial effects, but it was only weak nevertheless. As I said earlier in the past I had consumed at least one box of selenium and while it felt to help a little it did not result in any considerable or lasting change.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on July 07, 2023, 08:59:42 AM

As per usual the short version is here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40769#msg40769

Brazilian bee propolis trio [Brazilian bee propolis blend: brown (85%), green (10%), red (5%); 1 capsule contains: 100 mg FLAV(tm)-M15, 3 mg PWE(tm)-MD, 3.56 mg flavonoids and organic aromatic acids (OAA); Rd:1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. This day I had a really bad workload and the propolis couldn’t help with exercise induced bloodshot eyes. At times though I somehow felt a little better mentally. It also clearly helped with rhinitis as the nose felt quite relaxed, especially in the morning, but of course nasal congestion was a little increased as well. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the sexual function felt somewhat similar to the previous day with selenium, though a little weaker possibly due to the fatigue. After the shower the eyes became more painful for a few hours as it usually happens. In the morning I certainly felt better mentally, though the eyes were still bloodshot without much change. At least photophobia was not strong, but as I said earlier this symptom shows a better association with depression. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. As a side-effect I could experience an increase in tinnitus for a short time a few hours after intake (specifically 3 hours at one time), which may imply some connection to resveratrol, astaxanthin, etc. I think it deserves a good score. 
It is marketed to be a good source of CAPE (caffeic acid phenethyl ester). CAPE also has an affinity for ERbeta and regarded as a potential SERM.

(American) Ginseng [250 mg powder per capsule; Rd:1]: They did not specify the type, but as it comes from the US, it must be the American variety. I took 3 capsules in a day without an O. This day I had some serious work in the sunshine whole day. Around noon I though I would fall over from fatigue, but later I got some energy and only felt the pain. Fortunately the eyes weren’t too bad by the time I got home. In the morning I felt rather alright even if not perfectly well. The eyes were only lightly bloodshot and photophobia wasn’t bad, though I couldn’t notice an anti-depressive effect.
Gut issues were possibly moderately better. Rhinitis was a little reduced, but not so well as with the Brazilian bee propolis. My current experience wasn’t that much different than with other kinds of ginseng, but I can’t really make a comparison with so little testing. It gets a moderate score from me.

Houttuynia/Dokudami (Houttuynia cordata) [100% dried herb powder; Rd:0.5-1 teaspoon]: I took 1.5 teaspoon or little more Houttuynia mixed in warm water in a day and had an O. Once again I had a longer workday. By the time I went home the eyes were quite nice especially considering the exercise intolerance. Muscle fatigue wasn’t too bad either. In the afternoon I had an O. The sexual function was rather alright, but I cut it short, so I can’t go into much detail about it. It is a bit strange that the ejaculate was only slightly burning considering that I had excessive work in the previous days. Interestingly even after O, the eyes remained alright by the time I went to bed and in the morning they were still good. In the morning I had the usual depression though. I also developed a light chest inflammation and rhinitis could be experienced. Gut issues were possibly moderately better. Everything considered it deserves a good score in my opinion.
Constituents: becatamide, betulinic acid, ursolic acid, biochanin A, beta-sitosterol, 2-undecanone, myrcene, sabinene, beta-pinene, flavonoids, aristolactams, amides, benzenoids, 5,4-dioxoaporphines, oxoaporphines, phenolic acids, volatile/essential oils, alkaloids and polysaccharides.
Houttuynia was identified as a herb with a significant estrogenic activity. I think its effect could be similar to chasteberry.

Ribwort plantain tea (Plantaginis folium - Plantago lanceolata): I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. I had normal amount of work this time, but sometime after noon I felt rather weak, even though the muscle fatigue wasn’t particularly bad. Photophobia also wasn’t particularly bad either, though I still sneezed a few times while wearing sunglasses. Normal people probably find it strange that I usually shade my eyes even while wearing sunglasses, but that only shows how bad my photophobia is. The eyes were rather good through the morning, so I decided to have another O in the afternoon. The sexual function felt rather alright meaning not too good or bad just normal in a good way. The ejaculate was somewhat burning, however this did not result in a clear POIS onset. The eyes remained rather alright and only got a little worse by bedtime, when I usually experience a deterioration on a daily basis anyway. I still had a very slight chest inflammation even before masturbation and it only got a little worse by the time I went to bed. I slept through the night and the morning felt a little better than average. Practically all symptoms while still perceptible just felt a little reduced. The only bothersome symptom was the light chest inflammation that still remained. The eyes were still rather clear in the morning which means that it could have a good effect on them as it is unlikely that Houttuynia would have had such a lasting effect. It had no clear anti-depressive effect. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, but it is hard to tell exactly. Regardless it deserves a moderate-good score as an overall rating.
Constituents: phenylethanoids such as acteoside (verbascoside), cistanoside F, lavandulifolioside, plantamajoside, isoacteoside and iridoid glycosides (aucubin and catalpol).
Similarly to common verbena it contains the potentially useful compounds aucubin and acteoside.

Meadowsweet tea (Filipendula ulmaria herba): I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. The chest inflammation resolved by afternoon and the eyes remained well until evening when the usual bloodshot eye symptoms arose again. There was an often felt urgency for urination, which was a bit bothersome. The urination itself was not accompanied by a greater volume and the burning pain could be still felt weakly. When I woke up in the middle of the night I did not have a similar experience as with the willow bark tea. In the morning I felt rather usual, but alright. Gut issues were a little better maybe weak-moderately. My conclusion is that it has a little positive effect, but nothing extraordinary.
Constituents: salicylaldehyde is up to 70%, flavonoids (3-4% in herb, up to 6% in flowers, quercetin-4’-glucoside, hyperoside, kaempferol-4’-glucoside, quercetin, isoquercetin, rutin), hydrolysable tannins (1-12%, the dimeric compound rugosin D) and phenolcarboxylic acids (gallic acid).
I think it could be used as an alternative to willow bark tea, though their efficacy may differ.

Common fumitory tea (Fumaria officinalis): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. It did not help with bloodshot eyes and they sometimes appeared worse, though not necessarily due to the tea. I couldn’t exactly notice any significant change otherwise. I still had a greater urge for urination from time-to-time. In the morning I felt a bit better than usual though not significantly. At least gut issues appeared better to a moderate degree or even more, however I also ate some food that could have provided some additional benefit so I am not entirely sure of its individual efficacy. As an overall feel I can only give this a weak score in acute treatment.
Constituents: isoquinoline alkaloids (fumarin), fumaric acid and derivatives, flavonoids and protopine.
Protopine is an alkaloid that also occurs in opium poppy and in its function inhibits histamine H1 receptors and platelet aggregation and also induces CYP1A1 and CYP1A2 mRNA levels.
Fumarin is a structural analog of warfarin and has an anticoagulant effect. Fumaric acid is a component of the urea and citric acid cycle. Fumaric acid can be also found in Iceland moss and bolete mushrooms in a greater quantity.

Silverweed tea (Argentina anserina): In the morning I had more work once again and around noon the exercise induced bloodshot eyes were rather bad. Later they got better, but after showering they once again turned rather bad, so its rather ineffective for this problem. By evening I also developed a lymphatic inflammation on the left side of my neck, which moved to the right side by morning when it was even stronger and the pain radiated to my shoulder. However silverweed may not be blamed as this kind of inflammation may occur seldom for no apparent reason. The morning felt rather usual. Gut issues were weakly improved. Overall it has a small benefit.
Constituents: ellagic acid, quercetin flavone and aglycone, essential oils, mucilage, minerals, flavonoids, tannins and bitter substances.

Chios gum mastic (Pistacia lentiscus): Crystals of mastic gum that form a chewing gum in the mouth. I chewed it three times in a day for at least 20 minutes without an O. The amount used was about 5g.
In the morning I had physical work and once again developed exercise induced bloodshot eyes. When I  chewed the second portion the throat got a little irritated by the end of it, but at least this resolved rather soon after stopping the chewing and drinking some water. The afternoon was rather uneventful, though the neck inflammation was still strong from the previous day. It got weaker by evening, but remained at an uncomfortable intensity even by morning. Unfortunately I still had averagely bloodshot eyes even in the evening and the next morning, so it wasn’t really any useful for eye problems. At least I felt some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, but this also wasn’t that clearly good, so it only gets a weak-moderate score. The rhinitis also seemed a little better. When I cursorily woke up during the night I certainly felt better mentally, but this did not last by morning. I also had vivid dreams which is not that usual for me. The first urine was still burning, so it may be not effective for this issue. As a possible side-effect the two minor outgrowths on the two sides of the inside of my mouth got somewhat inflamed and I even bit one of them bloody in the evening by chewing the gum, which made it even more painful. I have to say though that this symptom may have been associated to the neck inflammation as well, but I wasn’t aware of it the previous day, so I can’t determine. While it had some benefit, the other masticha products certainly felt more useful, so it only gets a weak score.

Moringa [powder, Rd: 6g=2 tsp]: I have already tried this quite a while ago without too much success. Currently I took it with 3 teaspoons in a day without an O. It may be interesting to note that morniga has a kind of pungent effect on the throat during consumption. In the morning I had once again really tiresome work and by the time I was going home I developed a mild headache. At least the eyes weren’t too bad. In the late afternoon I masturbated some. The sexual function felt rather normal. However once again the tension-like headache waves were torturing me during the more intense periods. At least even after masturbation the eyes remained relatively alright and only got a little worse by the time I was going to bed when I also felt really tired. In the morning I felt mostly as usual, but at least the lymphatic inflammation on the neck mostly resolved by this time. Gut issues were about weak-moderately or moderately better. I think it also helped with rhinitis a little. Altogether I can give it a weak-moderate score.
In a study, moringa extract containing phenols and flavonoids such as gallic acid, catechin, chlorogenic acid, ellagic acid, quercitrin, isoquercitrina, quercetin, rutin, kaempferol, and epicatechin inhibited enzymes as arginase and angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE-2), which were linked to erectile dysfunction and oxidative stress in rat’s penile.
Some other constituents: beta-sitosterol, carotenoids, isothiocyanates, tannins, phenolic acids and saponins.

Cubeb (Piper cubeba): I ate 36 pieces (about 6g) in a day without an O. To my surprise it was hardly any pungent and tasted more like allspice. The eyes remained generally alright during work. I also masturbated some in the afternoon and the sexual function felt alright, but nothing out of the ordinary. Even after this the eyes remained lightly bloodshot, so it may have some protective effect on them, though after showering one of them still got worse. In the morning I felt mostly as usual, but not particularly unwell at least. Gut issues were only weakly better though. I guess I can give it a weak-moderate score.
Besides being an aphrodisiac cubeb is also supposed to be good at treating genito-urinary infections.
Constituents: monoterpenes (sabinene 50%, alpha-thujene, and carene) and sesquiterpenes (caryophyllene, copaene, alpha- and beta-cubebene, delta-cadinene, germacrene), the oxides 1,4- and 1,8-cineole and the alcohol cubebol.

Nettle leaf tea (Urticae folium): I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. My eye problems were relatively light in the morning, but in the afternoon especially after some masturbation they slowly crept back which may mean the dissipating protective effect of cubeb from the previous day. It also means that nettle was probably not effective for this symptom. The sexual function felt rather average. In the morning I felt myself rather usually, though the eyes were a bit more painful than usual. The first urine was not particularly burning and gut issues were better, but only weakly. It clearly had no anti-depressive effect whatsoever. For me it goes into the weakly beneficial category.
Constituents: caffeic acid, ferulic acid, sinapic acid, esculetin, caffeoylmalic acids, chlorogenic acid, lutein and isomers, b-carotene and isomers, neoxanthin, violaxanthin, lycopene, quercetin, kaempferol and isorhamnetin glycosides, quercetin-3-O-rutinoside, kaempherol-3-O-rutinoside and isorhamnetin-3-O-glucoside, phylloxanthobilin, etc.
The leaves have a much greater antioxidant capacity compared to the roots. The leaves extract inhibited the 12-LOX pathway unlike the roots.

White dead nettle tea (Lamium album): I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. Around noon the eyes were rather alright and it may have actually helped a little. However in the afternoon I was edging some and afterwards the eyes got a little worse after some precum. In the evening I masturbated once again and had an O. The sexual activity felt a little better than usual (libido, erection and endurance), though the control was more like usual. After O one of the eyes became rather bad and remained so by morning, so this can’t really help with eyes when the push is stronger. At least in the morning I did not feel particularly unwell and it was more like on a usual chronic day. The urine was noticeably not burning both in the evening and morning. In the morning the rhinitis was also minimal and the airways felt cleaner, though not as much with verbena. The air was also fresher due to a windy night, so this was not necessarily due to the herb. Gut issues were weakly or weak-moderately better, but at least it felt a little better than stinging nettle. In the morning the libido also felt to be recovering nicely. I guess I can score it as weak-moderate. Once again as a source of acteoside (verbascoside) it may only show its true benefit after a longer time. It is also recommended in the management of prostatic problems.
Constituents: phenylpropanoid glycosides (lamalboside and acteoside), the flavonol p-coumaroylglucoside, tiliroside, chlorogenic acid, naringenin, apigenin and luteolin, rutoside, quercetin, kaempferol 3-O-glucosides, iridoid glycosides (lamalbid, alboside A and B, caryoptoside), hemiterpene glucoside (hemialboside), ecdysteroids (abutasterone, inokosterone, polypodine B and pterosterone), asparagine, tannins, saponins, mucilage substances, essential oil, choline, histamine, methylamine, tyramine.

Elecampane tea (Inula helenium radix): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. As expected it had a moderately bitter taste. I thought it would help with my eyes, but I think it only managed to stabilize the condition as my right eye remained rather bad throughout the day. Sometimes I think I felt myself a little better, but in the morning it was more like usual, so I don’t think it has any significant anti-depressive effect. Actually I developed a moderate chest inflammation in the morning, but this may have been due to some confectionery sweets. At least it got lighter by the next morning. I slept through the night and the first urine was still not burning particularly. Rhinitis was similarly minimal. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, but it is hard to tell exactly as usual with one day tests and eating all different things all the time. Currently I can only give it a weak score, but its inulin content could certainly make it a good addition to a herbal blend.
Constituents: the polysaccharide inulin, helenin (consisting of alantolactone and isoalantolactone), eudesmane type sesquiterpene lactones (mainly alantolactone and isoalantolactone), thymol derivatives, triterpenes, sterol, phenolic acids (caffeic, chlorogenic, dicaffeoyl quinic, hydroxibenzoic and ferulic acid-4-O-glucoside), different flavonoids (epicatechin, catechin gallate), camphor, chamazulene, waxes, bitter substances, pectic polysaccharides and up to 44% inulin.

Shepherd's purse tea (Capsella bursa-pastoris): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I still had a light chest inflammation in the morning, but it resolved by noon. The eyes also got a little better, but my right eye was still worse than usual even by morning, so it may not do that much. In the morning I felt myself rather usually and I couldn’t notice any anti-depressive effect either. The urine was still not burning, but the rhinitis could be felt a little more than in the previous days. Gut issues were also only minimally better. I think it has a weak positive effect, but nothing major.
Constituents: alkaloid and glycoside-like acid (bursic acid), the seeds contain an essential oil similar to essential mustard oil, a hemostatic peptide, 1% flavonglycoside, flavonoids (luteloin, diosmin, quercetin), biogenic amines (betaine, choline, tyramine, acetylcholine, histamine), potash, tannin, resin, fatty oil (in seeds), minerals, calcium, saponins, essential oil, potassium salts, calcium, tyramine.

Stinging nettle root tea (Urticae radix): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. In the first part of the day my right eye finally managed to recover, that was until I ate some strawberries in the afternoon which gave me bad eye symptoms once again, which became even worse after showering. At least by morning they once again recovered to a normal level, so I guess it has at least a little positive effect on the eyes. In the morning I felt myself mostly as usual. Gut issues may have been weak-moderately better. I think it was a little better than the leaf tea, but I can only give it a weak score regardless.
Constituents: 3-beta-sitosterol, sitosterol-beta-D-glucoside, other phytosterol derivatives,  secoisolariciresinol, scopoletin, etc.
The root contains more phytosterols compared to the leaves. Several compounds of the root were also shown to inhibit sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). The root extract was shown to inhibit thromboxane production and the COX-2 pathway.

Coconut flower/blossom sugar: I took 9 teaspoon of coconut flower sugar in a day without an O. This day I had a considerable workload, thus exercise intolerance was an issue. As far as I could judge it may minimally help with eye symptoms, but nothing really much. Gut issues were certainly better to about a moderate degree, however it resulted in more than average flatulence as well which is a usual drawback. When I woke up during the night I also experienced a rather loud tinnitus for some reason. Otherwise the morning felt mostly as usual indicating that it has no considerable benefit, so I can only give it a weak-moderate score.
Constituents: 70%-80% sucrose, amino acids (rich in glutamic acid, threonine, aspartic acid and serine), minerals (iron, zinc, calcium, potassium and phosphorus), vitamins such as B complex, C and E, flavonoids, anthocyanidins, polyphenols, inulin, due to caramelization toxic acrylamide and 5-hydroxymethylfurfural could be also formed, tricalcium phosphate as anticaking agent, possibly pyroglutamic acid when heated.

Rutin + Vitamin C [20mg rutin, 50mg vitamin C; Rd: 3]: I took 6 pills in a day without an O. This day my workload was even worse than the previous. Interestingly around the end of work I felt a little surge of energy instead of being completely exhausted. Eye symptoms were not particularly better and I think it only had a minimal impact on them. Gut issues were about moderately better. I can give it a weak-moderate score.

Dill seeds tea (Anethum graveolens): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I only consumed the tea without eating the seeds. I had an average workload in the morning and I developed rather usual exercise related symptoms. In the afternoon I masturbated some. The sexual function felt average in practically every respect: I had a good erection, but the libido (desire) was only average and it felt like I could come easily if I was not careful. Afterwards the eyes did not become any worse, however I experienced an increased burning pain near the anus. In the morning it felt close to usual, though some symptoms were possibly a little better (e.g. rhinitis, eye bloodshotness, burning pain of the urine). Gut issues were weakly or weak-moderately better. I think it deserves a weak-moderate score, but nothing spectacular.
Dill is related to celery, so it is interesting that I did not get similar eye problems as with the celery caps. Dill also reminded me a bit to caraway and ajwain.
Constituents: monoterpens (carvone, limonene and trans-anethole), flavonoids (kaempferol, vicenin),
apiole, dillapiole, myristicin, umbelliferone.
Kaempferol, trans-anethole, and limonene exhibit phytoestrogenic properties.

Chrysanthemum tea (Chrysanthemum morifolium): I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. It turned out to be really good for my eyes. I masturbated in two sessions once in the morning and later in the evening when I had an O. The eye symptoms remained rather alright all throughout to the next day and they only got a little more bloodshot after O, but were once again good by morning. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. In the early morning when I first woke up I kind of felt more aware than usual, but otherwise I couldn’t see an anti-depressive effect. Rhinitis wasn’t particularly bad either. I guess it deserves a moderate-good score leaning to the good side.
In TCM it is said to be similar in use as chamomile and recommended to be used in a combination with Goji berries. For me at least it was certainly more useful than chamomile. It has to be noted that Chrysanthemum is indicated to have a significant phytoestrogenic effect.

Arrowroot flour (Maranta arundinacea): I consumed with 6 teaspoons (about 15g) mixed in either hot water or coffee without an O. My eyes remained alright throughout the morning and afternoon, but they became a bit more bloodshot by evening especially after the shower, so it may not have a benefit on the eyes. I felt some cognitive weakness in the early afternoon. I took the powder with coffee in the mid-afternoon and soon experienced a minor gut pain for a short time. Later I also experienced twitches in my leg that occurs rather rarely. It felt like periodical stronger pulses of the blood vessel, though the tinnitus was only normal. In the morning I felt rather usually, but at least the urine was not burning at all. Gut issues were only weakly better. It deserves a weak score in my opinion.
It is supposed to be a good source of starch, folate, alkaloids, glycosides, phenotypic compounds, saponins, phenols, phosphorus, sodium, potassium, magnesium, iron, calcium, etc.
It is supposed to help with circulation and may even cure IBS.

Gymnema Sylvestre/Gurmar [400 mg leaf powder per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. I have already tried this in the past at least on two days, but I couldn’t see any significant change. My current experience wasn’t any different. I don’t think it helps with eye symptoms, as I had some bad bloodshot eyes by evening. Gut issues were only weakly better. The morning felt as usual with the eyes being rather tired. It may help a little, but really not much. I also couldn’t see any difference in hunger or satiety.
Constituents: gymnemic acids, gymnemasaponins, gurmarin, gymnamine, gymnemasins, conduritol, anthraquinones, flavones, hentriacontane, pentatriacontane, phytin, resins, tartaric acid, formic acid, butyric acid, lupeol, beta-amyrin related glycosides, stigmasterol, alkaloids and calcium oxalate.
Gymnema is known to suppress the sweet taste, while itself has a bitter taste.

Hemp-agrimony tea (Eupatorium cannabinum): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I don’t think it had a particular benefit on the eyes, but I don’t think it was harmful either. My left eye was rather bloodshot and by evening I realized that it must be infection related as on this day one of my colleague came down with fever which may indicate a covid infection as I had similar episodes in the past. It clearly has no anti-depressive effect. Gut issues were weakly or weak-moderately better. The morning felt rather usual. Despite the probable infection it did not show much promise, thus it only gets a weak rating.
Constituents: sesquiterpene lactones (eupatoriopicrin), polysaccharides (heteroxylan), flavonoids, essential oils, toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids.
Clearly the toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids also don’t make it suitable for long term use.

Greater burdock root/Bardanae radix tea (Arctium lappa): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. Based on its color I would say this is the real green tea, so don’t be surprised. Regarding its effects I think I could notice a positive one on the eyes, however the left eye was still persistently bad, which only confirms a likely covid infection. Otherwise I had no other serious infection related symptoms. I was sneezing a few times, which is not usual and sometimes I could feel a weaker discomfort in the throat. In the evening I also felt some minor cramps like when I had a thick blood before. Burdock as expected still appeared rather useful. I could clearly perceive an anti-depressive effect about 5 hours after consumption. Gut issues were better to about a moderate-good degree. In the morning I definitely felt a little better than usual, though of course far from perfect. I can only guess that my experience would have been even better without a concurrent infection or with longer use. The tea also appeared better than the tincture I had tried before, which may be due to the greater amount of active components. It certainly deserves a good rating.
Constituents: arctiin, arctigenin, pectin, fructooligosaccharides, inulin, dicaffeoyl acids and fructofuranan, tannin, chlorogenic acid, cynarin, flavonoids (rutin, myricetin, quercetin, apigenin and kaempferol), betulinic acid, oleanolic acid, lupeol, lappaol, diarctigenin, caffeic acid, beta-eudesmol, trachelogenin and sitosterol-beta-D-glucopyranoside.
Clearly arctigenin and arctiin must be the most active constituents. Arctigenin was shown to activate SIRT1, ERbeta and to antagonize AR.

Herb Robert tea (Geranium robertianum): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. The left eye finally got better to a level which it is not outright hurtful to look at and the right eye also seemed clearer, so it must have at least some positive effect on the eyes. By morning they were once again lightly bloodshot as most of the time when not pressured by POIS or some infection. Gut issues were about moderately better, though with a bit more flatulence than burdock. I could also not notice a clear anti-depressive effect as with burdock, so the latter must be the more useful one. In the early morning at least the urine was not particularly burning, but for some reason the tinnitus was a little louder. I also had a weak erection when I woke up and generally felt myself a little better than usual. I guess it deserves a moderate rating and it may have been slightly more useful than the Geranium capsules, but once again this may be only a dosage dependency.
Constituents: tannins (ellagitannins, geraniin, condensed tannins (proanthocyanidins)), phenolic acids (ellagic acid, gallic acid, syringic acid, ferulic acid, caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, caftaric acid), quercetin and kaempferol as aglycones or glycosides (rutin, quercitrin, hyperoside, astragalin, etc.), lectins, saponins, vitamin C, lutein, essential oils (linalool, geraniol, phytol, etc).
Tannins like geraniin are good sources of gut microbiota derived urolithins.

Bear’s garlic leaf tea (Allium ursinum): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. Its taste is rather similar to chives, though possibly a bit less strong. My eyes remained relatively alright throughout the day, though I don’t think it necessarily has much of an effect on them, as they felt rather tired in the afternoon. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, though once again it caused more than average flatulence as a side-effect. It did not have an anti-depressive effect or anything else spectacular. I guess it deserves a weak-moderate score.
Constituents: phenolic compounds (gallic acid, 3.5-diOH-benzoic acid, catechin, chlorogenic acid, 4-hydroxybenzoic acid, epicatechin, homovanillic acid, caffeic acid, vanillic acid, syringic acid, vanillin, p-coumaric acid, rutin, sinapic acid, ferulic acid, 2-OH-cinnamic acid, quercetin, luteolin, and kaempferol), vitamins, mineral substances, lectins, polysaccharides, fatty acids, amino acids, alliins (in particular methylalliin, i.e. methiin, and allylalliin, i.e. alliin) and other sulphur-containing molecules, for example allyl methyl disulphide and allicin pigments).

Lovage root tea (Levisticum officinale): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. Regarding the sexual function I had a good erection, but the libido and endurance were only normal, while the control felt a little poor as I had to be careful not to come early. The ejaculate was kind of burning, but as I said earlier this is not necessarily associated with the actual supplement. I couldn’t notice any clear improvement in the eyes, however even after O they did not get worse either. Well, after showering they were still worse and a little painful, but they were only a little bloodshot by bedtime and remained so even by morning, so it must have at least a little protective effect. Similarly I couldn’t experience an anti-depressive effect, but I also did not develop a pronounced depression either. I got up earlier than planned, so it may disturb sleeping or maybe it was only my POIS. Gut issues were either weakly or weak-moderately better. Somehow it reminded me a bit to ginseng, so I guess I could give it a moderate score.
It tastes very much like celery root, so I can only guess that they have a similar pharmacology. At least both are considered aphrodisiacs and both were shown to raise testosterone level in experimental animals. Phthalides can be found in both plants, so they may be the most active compounds. Phthalides in general show progestogenic and some estrogenic activity as well. Angelica is also a source of phthalides.

D,L-Phenylalanine: [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps in a day with an O. It was a nice surprise as it clearly had a kind of better anti-depressive effect about 3 hours after consumption. My eyes were still rather alright, so I decided to have an O again. Even before masturbation I had a weaker spontaneous erection, so libido was positively modulated. The sexual function felt even better than the previous day as I had a good erection and the control also felt better, so I could last long. The ejaculate wasn’t so burning as the last time. Once again POIS only weakly emerged, though I developed a temporary sore throat soon afterwards and later rhinitis was an issue. At least the eyes remained only lightly bloodshot even through to the morning. In the morning though they felt usually tired and had the same old photophobia. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, but the burning pain was rather usual. While I was not astonishingly well, my experience with DLPA was certainly better than L-tyrosine or L-DOPA, so I can give it a good rating. While dopamine clearly has a positive role in my depression it still doesn’t feel like it is at the core of my problem. Nevertheless dopamine contributes towards feeling better at least.

Taurine and apigenin complex [Ingredients in 1 capsule: 267 mg taurine, 67 mg green tea, ca. 8 mg apigenin and ca. 5mg of other flavonoids; Rd: 3]: I tried this before without seeing much benefit and my current experience was similar. I took 3 caps in a day without an O. Apparently it did not have any effect on the eyes as they were a bit more bloodshot and somewhat tired throughout the day. About 5-6 hours after the second cap I experienced a temporary warmness and before that I felt myself slightly better but that was about the most it did. In the morning I felt myself just like always. Gut issues were at least a little better. I am still not sure if taurine is beneficial for me or not, but at least in a smaller amount it may not hurt.
Given that this combination should activate well the GABAA receptor, it is a further confirmation that GABAergic transmission is not at the core of my POIS, especially as several herbs containing its antagonist (thujone) weren’t detrimental at all.

Olive leaf extract [500 mg per capsule, with 100 mg standardized oleuropein content; Rd:1]: I have already tried this in the past and found it to provide some benefit, however some unpleasant side-effects also occurred, so the cost-benefit ratio does not seem sufficient. This time I took 3 caps in a day without an O. It helps minimally with eye symptoms, however I remember that the last time I took the caps some net-like pattern of veins developed and that was the reason I did not try it further. Gut issues also seemed better, however I also had a diarrhea right after work which may have been due to a combination with exercise intolerance as I had more work this day. I also had a weak headache around this time and also in the evening. Rhinitis was present usually in the evening. When I got up at night I felt slightly better and urine was not particularly burning, however in the morning it was practically the same as usual. It only gets a weak-moderate score from me.

Colostrum [450 mg colostrum per capsule containing 135 mg immunoglobulins; Rd:4]: I have already tried this in the past without seeing much change, so I skipped on it. Currently I took 5 caps in a day without an O. Clearly it has no particular effect on the eyes. At least gut issues seemed a little better, but nothing significant really. Otherwise I couldn’t see anything remarkable. It may be a little useful, but nothing much in an acute setting, thus it only gets a weak score.

HMB (Calcium hydroxymethylbutyrate) [750 mg per pill; Rd: 4]: I have already tried this in the past without much benefit. Currently I took 4 pills without an O. My eyes remained only lightly bloodshot even after showering, though I still can’t say for sure if HMB really had any effect on them. The following morning felt pretty average as well. At least I was a bit surprised that gut issues were about moderately better, so it may have some use after all. I think a weak-moderate score is proper for now. This supplement should inhibit muscle breakdown, but in the morning the muscle fatigue was rather usual, so it probably does not modulate the inflammatory process itself. At least in my case it proved better than sodium butyrate, thus some people may also want to test this. HMB is also a HDAC1 inhibitor which could explain the positive effects on gut issues similarly to beta glucan.

Amaranth seeds: I ate about 200 g in a day. The first two portion was cooked while the third was raw mixed in yogurt. I don’t think it has a particular benefit on the eyes as they remained rather alright throughout the day, but after the evening shower they evidently got worse and were so even in the morning. I also masturbated some in the afternoon and the sexual function was rather normal. I avoided the O as it felt like I would have a normal POIS if I did so. I am not sure about gut issues as the quality of the stool was quite better, however the burning pain was possibly even stronger than usual, so it is either mixed effect or moderate score. Thus currently I can only give this a weak score.
Constituents: omega-3 fatty acid, vitamin C/E, glutathione, oxalic acid, alkaloids, fatty acids, coumarins, flavonoids, glycosides, rich in iron, calcium, magnesium, copper and manganese.
 
D.A.A. (d-aspartic acid) [powder, Rd: 3 g]: I have already tried this in the past for two days, but as my symptoms were getting worse probably due to inefficiency I decided to skip on it. Currently I took with 2 scoops (about 6 g) in a day without an O. Once again it hadn’t any remarkable effects as it was rather useless for the eye symptoms and gut issues were only weakly better. The morning felt pretty much as usual. Even if it boosts testosterone clearly one shouldn’t expect any immediate gain from this. As an acute treatment it only gets a weak score.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on October 30, 2023, 03:46:12 PM

I wanted to post this a while ago, but I was a bit lazy about it. Only a few other items remain in the singular test run. Actually I have began to treat myself in the meanwhile and I will share my experiences soon though unfortunately I can’t say I have made any major advancements so far.
Regarding the short tests you can find the short list here as per usual:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40769#msg40769

DMAE (dimethylethanolamine) [20 mg per pill; Rd:1]: I have already tried this a long time ago and as I recall I had some negative experience, however that may have been due to some food as well. This time I took 3 pills and had an O. I couldn’t notice any significant change after the first pill, but I had some free time, so I had an O in the afternoon. Interestingly symptoms did not escalate after O as they usually do, so it may have some protective effect after all or this episode was just weak for some other reason (e.g. DAA from the previous day and I also ate some cardamom in the morning). The sexual function was rather normal in every respect. In the morning I felt just like I always do, but POIS was not severe at all. Actually the nose also felt a little relaxed, so rhinitis was also reduced a little. It had no clear anti-depressive effect, but I wasn’t particularly depressed in the morning, which may count as a slight benefit. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. Thus DMAE does not make me much better actually, but it may still have some protective effect against a POIS episode. As a possible side-effect I experienced a little pain in the left ear without a change in tinnitus some hours after the first pill, but not after the others. There were also some little cramps in the left arm around the same time, but nothing such later, so it may have been unrelated. I can give it a moderate score based on the current experience.

Sodium benzoate: I consumed 1/3 of a coffeespoon (0.5 g) twice (1 g) in a day without an O. This is a preservative we often use in our household and I wanted to see how my body reacts as I often get reactions to canned foods (e.g. apricot and plum jam). As it turns out it can really induce bloodshot eyes which peaked about 3 hours after intake. The morning felt rather usual, but not particularly bad. This test was also a bit surprising though as the symptoms were only bad, but not terribly bad. Given that we put about 0.5g in a jar and I only eat a part of a jar at a time it is strange that I would often develop terrible eye symptoms and specifically in case of apricot jam other POIS symptoms would be also excruciatingly bad. While sodium benzoate is clearly bad for my POIS the other ingredients can’t be excluded from this potentiation of symptoms.

Dill plant (Anethum graveolens): I ate more than a whole plant (right before blooming) in a day without an O. I developed normal exercise intolerance symptoms during work. It did not help with bloodshot eyes either and though I am not sure, but they may have been slightly worse than otherwise. The morning felt just like usual. Gut issues were weakly better. I guess it was mostly ineffective even though it is supposed to contain some prospective constituents.
Constituents: apiol, apigenin, quercetin, kaempferol, d-limonene, trans-anethole, carvone, vicenin.

L-Glutamine [powder; Rd: 5 g 1-3 times a day]: I took 15 g in a day without an O. I have already tried this in the past without seeing much of a change and it was so this time as well. It did not help with eye issues. The morning felt practically the same as always. Gut issues were a little better, but I think it was due to something else I ate, so acutely L-Glutamine doesn’t seem to do much for me, thus I consider it ineffective as an acute treatment.

Arginine A.K.G. (100% Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate) [powder; Rd: 1-3g x 1-2]: This is another protein powder that I have already tried without seeing much benefit. Currently I took 9 g in a day without an O. Eye issues were even worse than the day before, but I am not sure if the supplement had anything to do with it or only did so with unusually great delay. I still masturbated for a few minutes in the afternoon and the sexual function felt rather good as I had a good libido with a firm erection. The morning felt rather usual and I also slept rather poorly. Gut issues were a little better, but I think I also ate something else that had a negative effect, so it can’t be determined properly.
NO clearly has a positive effect on sexual performance, however it is not the best treatment for my POIS regardless. 

Bilberry leaf/Myrtilli folium tea (Vaccinium myrtillus): I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. Unfortunately the poor sleep from the previous night put my POIS in high gear for the rest of the day and the tea couldn’t help much in that. My eyes were rather bloodshot and tired throughout the day which also plummeted my mood as usual. It didn’t seem like the tea helped with the issue. The morning felt rather usual, but at least I woke up with a good erection which shows some positivity on libido. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. Specifically the burning pain was noticeably reduced, but the stool quality wasn’t so good. I think this one deserves a weak score.
Constituent: polyphenols, quercetin and kaempferol glycosides, tannins, procyanidins, hydroxybenzoic acids and hydroxycinnamic acid derivatives, chlorogenic acid, feruloylquinic acid, gallic acid, triterpenes (alpha- and beta-amyrin, ursolic acid, oleanolic acid) and phytosterols. Unfortunately it also tends to accumulate heavy metals.
I have already tried some fruit extract capsules earlier, but I did not find them particularly useful. Of course sometimes I still eat bilberry yoghurt after Os, but I think this only helps minimally with POIS and I only do so to sate the food cravings with something healthy unless I ate more crappy food instead.

Yellow dock root (Rumex crispus) [400 mg per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day without an O. The initial reaction was quite promising, however in the end it did not turn out to be very useful. Probably other factors lessened its effectiveness. Around noon my eyes appeared somewhat better and I even felt some anti-depression. However not so much later I had one of my wisdom tooth removed, which put some strain on my body, even though it went rather easily. The morning felt rather usual though I wasn’t particularly unwell. Gut issues were only weakly better. Currently I can give it a moderate score, but I will have to confirm this later.
Constituents:  anthraquinones (emodin, aloe emodin, chrysophanol, rhein, nepodin and physcion); rutin, flavone glycosides; vitamin C; beta-carotene, chlorophyll, organic acids (i.e., malic, oxalic, tannic, tartaric and citric) and phytoestrogens. iron and other minerals, tannins, oxalic acid, oxalates and a complex volatile oil.

Oak bark tea (Quercus cortex): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. Contrary to the previous test in the beginning I couldn’t see much of a difference as in the early afternoon I felt just like always and the bloodshot eyes were similarly so. As I had some free time I still had an O. The sexual function felt rather normal in every respect, though the ejaculate was quite burning. Interestingly my symptoms did not get particularly worse afterwards and the eyes even improved slightly by morning. I think the oak bark had a stabilizing effect as in the morning I felt mostly as usual or even slightly better. It was also probably beneficial to get out the burning load even if it meant starting a new episode. I suspect when a burning load is present inside the testicles then it keeps even my chronic symptoms elevated. Nevertheless the oak bark was still clearly useful even if it did not make me feel much better. Gut issues were only weakly better. I think it deserves a weaker moderate score given the current experience.
Constituents: ellagitannins, roburins, 1,2,3-trihydroxybenzene (pyrogallol), 4-propyl-1,3-benzenediol, vanillin, coniferyl alcohol, coumarin, scopoletin.

Common club moss tea (Lycopodium clavatum): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I also nibbled a part of the cooked herb. It was rather useless for eye symptoms as they were present moderately without any practical change. At least it had about a weak-moderate benefit on gut issues. I couldn’t notice anything significant otherwise and the morning felt mostly as usual, thus it only gets a weak score.
Constituents: huperzine A, alkaloids, flavonoids, polyphenols, triterpenes and the radioactive element radium.
Anecdotally it is considered as the ‘balm of old man’ as it can help alleviate aging related sexual dysfunction probably by increasing testosterone.

Coltsfoot leaf tea (Tussilago farfara): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day with an O. It certainly showed some benefit on the eyes and even after O the eyes remained bloodshot only to a lesser extent. The sexual desire felt average, but I had a good firm erection and I could last relatively long with a better control, so sexual function felt improved in general. The ejaculate was weakly burning, but not like the previous time. It also showed a benefit on gut issues, but only a weak one. I could not experience an anti-depressive effect. In the morning I did not feel particularly unwell at least. As a side-effect I could experience some discomfort around the liver after the first cup and in the next morning, but not generally. I guess it has about a moderate benefit.
Constituents: tussilagone, caffeoylquinic acid derivatives, mucilage, bitter glycosides, tannins, sesquiterpenoids, triterpenoids, flavonoids, phenolic acids, chromones.
Coltsfoot is recommended for the treatment of respiratory problems, however due to the presence of toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids (senecionine and senkirkine) its use is better avoided to prevent likely liver damage.

Blackberry leaf tea (Rubus fruticosus): I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I have already tried a different product in the past and saw some benefit, though nothing extraordinary. It was mostly the same this time. The eye symptoms remained generally light, but I think it only has a slight benefit on them. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. The morning felt mostly as usual, though not in a bad way. It deserves a weak-moderate score in my opinion.
Constituents: phenolic acids (caffeic acid, ellagic acid, gallic acid, syringic acid), flavonols (quercetin, kaempferol) and their glycosides (rutin, isoquercetin, hyperoside), flavon-3-ols (catechin, epicatechin).

(Probably Summer) Savory tea (Satureja spp.): I made a hot tea by adding 1 tablespoons of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I thought to give this a last chance with another product. Fortunately this time I did not experience a flare in bloodshot eyes. Actually it may have been slightly beneficial in this regard, though not particularly so. I masturbated some in the afternoon. I had a rather good and firm erection, while the desire was more like average. Control and endurance were possibly a little better than average, but by not much. The eyes only became a little worse afterwards. I also developed a very light chest inflammation by the end of masturbation, which persisted till bedtime. Interestingly in the evening I felt like I could move slightly easier or at least when standing up from a squat it was not so painful as practically always, though this wasn’t so in the morning. This may imply a benefit of carvacrol as I experienced something similar with oregano oil, but more time would be needed to clarify this. I couldn’t see any distinct anti-depressive effect, though in the morning I was slightly more aware and I slept through the night without waking up. Otherwise the morning felt only slightly better than usual and most symptoms were typical like the first urine was burning as usual and I could also experience rhinitis as a weak burning feeling of the nostril. I am not sure about gut issues as it either had a little benefit or it was a mixed effect. As a possible side-effect rarely I felt a slight transient pressure in the head that may have been due to its ability to increase blood pressure. Everything considered I think it only deserves a weak-moderate score acutely, but could be interesting to see what it does in a longer period.
Constituents: Essential oils (mostly carvacrol), tannic acid, bitter substance, resin, mucus, iron compounds, vitamins (e.g. vitamin B1, vitamin B3, beta carotene), minerals (e.g. calcium, potassium), trace elements (e.g. copper, manganese).
Savory is supposed to enhance sexual desire and may increase testosterone.

Blue fenugreek (Trigonella caerulea): I have already tried this in the past without seeing much difference, but I also did not have any major success with regular fenugreek either. This time I took it with 3 teaspoons (about 8 g) in a day mixed in hot water and I did not have an O. It has a milder taste compared to regular fenugreek, but its health benefit could be also less, though it is not exactly clear. It did not seem like it helped with bloodshot eyes anyhow. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the sexual function felt rather average in every respect, although I was probably a bit exhausted from the previous days. When I got up in the early morning the eyes were still rather dry and the urine was burning. At least I had a weaker spontaneous erection which probably indicates a recovering libido. In the morning I felt myself rather usually. At least gut issues may have been a little better, but not particularly so. It had no anti-depressive effect and muscle fatigue also felt as usual. I developed a cramp in the back of the neck in an hour after taking the first dose which remained throughout the day, but mostly resolved by the next morning. It was probably not a side-effect, but it is still better to mention it. I also had some temporary gut pains after taking the third dose before going to sleep, which was clearly a side-effect.

L-Leucine [450 mg per capsule; Rd: 4]: I did not expect much as I have already tried this in the past without it making much of a difference. This time I took 4 caps in a day without an O. It was really useless for eye symptoms as by evening they were really bloodshot, but I think it was only due to the fatigue. In the afternoon I was also rather depressed. Gut issues weren’t particularly better either or only minimally, so I would say that it is most likely ineffective at least in a one day time frame.

Horsetail caps and tea (Equisetum arvense) [caps: 300 mg 10:1 extract; Rd: 1]: I have already tried both in the past and only saw perhaps a small benefit. This time I took 2 caps and also made a tea from the herb (about 1 liter of water and 1 tablespoon of herb). I consumed these in one day without an O. Horsetail proved rather ineffective for the treatment of eye symptoms and depression. The eye symptoms were actually pretty bad throughout the day. Perchance due to biotin? The morning felt rather usual. I had rhinitis throughout the test. The urine was burning during the day, but this was somewhat reduced in the morning. Interestingly gut issues were about moderately better as the burning pain was quite reduced. Unfortunately this did not get reflected in the amelioration of other POIS symptoms, so I can only give this a weak score. I think the caps were a little more useful compared to the tea not like it makes much of a difference.
Constituents: alkaloids, flavonoids (luteolin 5-O-glucoside, quercetin 3-O-glucoside, apigenin 5-O-glucoside and dicaffeoyl-meso-tartaric acid), phenolic acids (cinnamic acids, caffeic acid, di-E-caffeoyl-meso-tartaric acid and 5-O-caffeoylshikimic acids), phytosterols, saponins, sterols (beta-sitosterol, campasterol, isofucosterol), polienic acids, rare dicarboxylic acids (equisetolic acid), styrylpyrones, silicic acid, potassium salts, tannin, triterpenoids, volatile oils, selenium, cysteine, biotin and vitamin C.

Mirtazapin (Mirzaten) [30 mg per pill]: I took two half pills in a day without an O. Not long after the first half pill I developed a really bad food coma that I couldn’t recover from for the most part of the day. I even had to go back to sleep a little as I was about the fall of the chair due to feeling tired and disoriented. In the afternoon I had the same old depression and I couldn’t notice an anti-depressive effect. The eyes were also moderately bloodshot, so no change there either. I took the second half pill in the evening and I did not notice anything in particular until bedtime. The morning felt mostly as usual. The urine was noticeably burning. Rhinitis could be also felt. I also had a weak buttock muscle inflammation for some reason, but this also occurred in the following mornings, so it may be not related to the pills. Gut issues weren’t much better than without treatment. So in an acute test it proved to be rather ineffective. Of course it may have an anti-depressive effect in the longer-term, but I simply don’t think this medication is for me particularly. It may be interesting to note that my grandma got really hyper on this drug (a few hours after intake), but I still couldn’t experience anything such.

Pantothenic acid/Vitamin-B5 (calcium d pantothenate) [200 mg per softgel capsule; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps in a day without an O. I have already tried this in the past without seeing much benefit. This time it was similarly so. It did not seem to affect eye problems. Gut issues were possibly a little better. I could not notice any particular improvement in mood, but at least I wasn’t particularly depressed. I masturbated some in the afternoon and the sexual function felt rather average in every respect. In the morning it was mostly as usual. I could also experience rhinitis in particular. As a possible side-effect I felt some transient tingling sensations on the head in the late afternoon and evening, but not in the morning even though I took another one before going to sleep. It may have some benefit, but it only deserves a weak rating in my experience.

Black sesame seeds (Sesamum indicum): I ate 5 teaspoon worth (about 7-8g) seeds raw with other foods in a day without an O. This day I had a higher workload and I was rather exhausted by the end of it. I don’t think black sesame seed helped any with eye symptoms. Evidently it had some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, but that was probably the most I got out of it. The morning felt just like usual, thus it only gets a weak score.

China rubra 30CH (Cinchona succirubra) [pillets; Rd: 5 pillets]: Another homeopathics that I bought earlier. I took 15 pillets in a day without sexual activity. Once again I had an increased workload which determined my whole day. It was not effective for eye symptoms and I don’t think it had any effect on gut issues or only a minimal one. I would rather put this as ineffective not like a one day test could show much especially for homeopathics without active ingredients.

Xanthan gum [powder]: I took about 2 teaspoons in a day without an O. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the sexual function felt mostly normal in every respect. I don’t think it had any effect on the eyes, though at least they did not became particularly worse from masturbation, but only later when I showered. The morning felt rather usual, though at least the urine seemed less burning and the rhinitis might have been slightly better. Gut issues were a little better, specifically the burning pain was noticeably reduced, however the stool was quite loose. It only gets a weak score.

Cryptolepis tincture (Cryptolepis sanguinolenta) [1:2 root extract; Rd: 0.5ml x 3]: I took about 0.7 ml three times in a day and had an O. I was not sure what to expect, but the main outcome was mostly beneficial. The sexual function felt mostly average. More specifically the sexual desire felt less than usual, though I still had no problem with maintaining the erection. The ejaculation was a little burning, but less so than on the previous occasion. Fortunately the eye symptoms only got a little worse afterwards and were rather normal in the morning, so it has a little protective effect. Gut issues were about moderately better. As the burning pain was noticeably reduced it is hard to believe that it could be detrimental for me. It deserves a moderate score acutely, but I am not sure if it is wise to use for a longer term. It is rather interesting that I have success with both aphrodisiacs and anaphrodisiacs, though I would still opt for the former.
The major alkaloid in the root is the indoloquinoline cryptolepine.

Silver birch leaf tea (Betula pendula): I drank its tea sometimes in the past and as I remember it had some diuretic effect and somewhat reduced the burning pain in the urinary tract, however the help it provided had never amounted to much. This time I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and consumed it in a day without an O. This time I could not really experience the diuretic effect probably due to the hot weather and the urine was still normally burning in the evening and it was only reduced somewhat at the first morning urination. It did not seem to do anything for the eyes. Gut issues were possibly a little better. The morning felt mostly usual, though I had a weak throat ache when I woke up, which soon resolved. The perpetual depression was also quite evident. Thus it gets a weak score.
Constituents: phenolic acids (chlorogenic and caffeic acid), flavonoids (rutoside and hyperoside), rich in potassium, saponins, tannins, volatile oils (methyl salicylate, terpene derivatives), hyperoside, myricetin galactoside, quercitrin and other glycosides.

Yarrows tea (Achillea millefolium): I have already tried this a few times before, but I couldn’t reach a conclusion about it. This time I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. It certainly does not help eye symptoms and may actually make them worse, though not too evidently. Gut issues were rather bad in the afternoon, but not so much in the morning, so this may have been due to something that I ate instead, though not too sure exactly what. The morning also felt rather normal, so it can’t be too bad really. So my experience remains inconsistent and yet I don’t think it is of much use, so I would rather put this in the ineffective category.
While it has some nice compounds it could be that some of them counteract each other, which may explain the low efficacy.
Constituents: achilleine, apigenin, luteolin, azulene, camphor, coumarin, inulin, menthol, quercetin, rutin, succinic, salicylic (salicin) and caffeic acids, lactones, tannins, and alkaloids and volatile oil (azulene, caryophyllene, thujone, eucalyptol, alpha- and beta-pinene and borneol).

Agar-agar powder: I consumed 1.5 teaspoon worth in a day without an O. I think it provided a little help, but nothing significant. Eye issues were unchanged, but at least not particularly bad. Gut issues were a little better, but as with many other stuff it was just not significant enough to make any real change. It gets a weak score.

Rehmannia Six Combination [500 mg per capsule containing: prepared Rehmannia root, Cornus fruit, Chinese Yam rhizome, Poria sclerotium, Alisma rhizome, Tree Peony Root bark; Rd:3]: I took 3 capsules in a day without an O. This day I had an increased workload (9 hours), which put me under pressure. During work there was a time when I though I felt a little better. Nonetheless I developed exercise intolerance related symptoms, but subjectively I think they were still less in intensity than could have been expected (e.g. the eyes were only lightly bloodshot and the muscle pain was only moderate). Unfortunately the prepared meal at home also included some weaker POIS mimetics, which further messed up the test. After showering the eye symptoms got a little worse and I felt pretty tired. I also developed a weak chest inflammation, but this resolved by morning. Otherwise I slept rather poorly and had to get up early as well. The morning felt mostly usual at least. The rhinitis felt reduced in the morning, but the urine was possibly even more burning than usual. Gut issues were weak-moderately better, but I suspect it could be better with a longer test. It is really hard to tell, but I would give this a moderate score.
While Rehmannia could be clearly beneficial for me due to its acteoside content, I am less convinced about the other ingredients. For example Chinese Yam also has a phytoestrogenic property, however it seems to favor ERalpha instead.

Cognitex Elite [1 tablet contains: 100 mg calcium, 80 mg phosphorus, 166 mg sage extract (2.5% rosmarinic acid), 100 mg blueberry blend, 63 mg ashwagandha extract (10% withanolide), 50 mg phosphatidylserine, 25 mg uridine-5’-monophophate disodium, 10 mg vinpocetine); Rd: 2]: I took 2 pills without an O. This day I had a very serious workload meaning 11 hours of physical work under the blazing sun, so exercise intolerance was an issue. I couldn’t see a distinct anti-depressive effect as with the PS capsules, but generally I was feeling less depressed than usual. The eyes weren’t particularly better and after showering they still became moderately bad, which only got a little better by morning. In the morning I had a slight head-ache for a short time which may have been a side-effect. Gut issues were about moderately better as the burning pain was noticeably reduced, however stool quality wasn’t particularly better. The urine was burning as usual even in the morning. Rhinitis was noticeably reduced both in the evening and the following morning, though this wasn’t very significant. I think this one deserves a moderate score, though the heavy exercise intolerance doesn’t make this test very representative.

Vinpocetine (aka Cavinton) [10 mg per pill; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 pills in a day without an O. This day I had an increased workload, but not as critically as the days before. By the time I was going home I felt myself pretty normal. I can’t say I had experienced a clear anti-depressive effect, but generally I was less depressed. The eyes were only lightly bloodshot and I think vinpocetine had some positive stabilizing effect on them as they remained alright even after showering. Once again I slept a little poorly. At least I had a weaker spontaneous erection when getting up. In the morning I had the usual photophobia and tired eyes, but at least they were only lightly bloodshot. Gut issues were a little better, but in the morning I had a kind of weaker diarrhea. As a possible side-effect in the evening I felt some tingling around my head though this wasn’t so in the morning. Furthermore in the morning the calf felt like it was in muscle fever. Of course this may have been due to the work, but I can’t rule out the supplement either. I think I can give this a weak-moderate score, but a lower dosage is clearly preferable in the long-term.

Jing formula [500 mg per capsule containing a blend of Dendrobium stem, Chinese asparagus root, raw Rehmannia root, Astragalus root, Eucommia bark, prepared Rehmannia root, Cornus fruit, Codonopsis root, Ophiopogon tuber, Phellodendron bark; Rd: 3]: I took 3 caps in a day and had an O. This day I had a moderate amount of work, but still my symptoms remained low. In the afternoon the eyes were relatively alright, but I couldn’t see any distinct anti-depressive effect. When I masturbated the sexual function appeared mostly normal. The ejaculation however was rather strong and the burning pain could be also felt though it wasn’t strong. The O was in the evening which is not ideal as my POIS is getting stronger around this time anyway. At least symptoms remained low and the eyes were relatively alright in the morning as well. I slept through the night without waking up and I got up with the usual chronic intensity not like I had an O just before. Gut issues seemed about moderately better though it is hard to tell really. Rhinitis wasn’t bad either. Actually I expected more from this formula, though it may need more time to work. At least it had a protective effect even if a clear improvement was not seen otherwise. I guess it deserves a moderate score for now.

Purslane (Portulaca oleracea) [400 mg aerial parts per caps; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps in day without an O. I couldn’t see any significant change during the day. The eyes remained lightly bloodshot, but the weak depression was just like always. It seemed to have a little anti-inflammatory effect, but nothing significant. Gut issues were possibly weakly better, but I also had a kind of weak diarrhea in the morning, so it wasn’t so good actually. The morning was pretty much as usual, though it was slightly worse than the previous one. Strictly based on this one day test it gets a weak score.
I mostly wanted to see if I would have any negative reaction to it as purslane is a claimed telomerase inducer. Fortunately I did not, but a long term use may have unpredictable results. It is interesting to note that some people claim to have cured their lichen planus with purslane that some of us may also have. Warning on the label: Cancer and reproductive harm. This is probably due to its ability to induce telomerase activity, even though others praise this as a life prolonging effect. Somewhat surprisingly some traditional practitioners also recommend purslane in the treatment of BPH and prostatitis.
Constituents: alkaloids, omega-3 fatty acids, coumarins, flavonoids, polysaccharide, cardiac glycosides, and anthraquinone glycosides, alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid, beta-carotene and glutathione.

Macadamia nuts: I ate 25 pieces (45 g) in a day without an O. Throughout the day I did not notice any significant change. At least the eyes remained relatively alright. I developed a slight head-ache in the evening, which may have been a side-effect, but I had no such issues in the morning. Gut issues were only weakly better. In the morning I felt mostly as usual. I think its benefit is less than of the common walnut.

Evening primrose seeds (Oenothera biennis semen): I put 1 teaspoon in hot water and consumed it 3 times in a day (1 tablespoon) without an O. I have already tried a capsule form, but the encapsulated and raw forms often show a difference in efficacy, so it is worth a recheck. The work on this day was quite intensive once again, so exercise intolerance was an issue. I don’t think it has any positive effect on the eyes, though they were only a little worse than on the previous days probably due to the ex. int. Gut issues were at least a little better than on the previous days, so it has about a weak-moderate benefit. The morning felt mostly as usual and I also developed a buttocks muscle inflammation for some reason. I guess it deserves a weak score at least, but still it doesn’t do anything significant.

Cashew nuts: I ate 25 pieces (45 g) in day without an O. I masturbated in the afternoon and the libido and erection were quite alright, but otherwise the sexual function was mostly as normal. At least symptoms did not get particularly worse afterwards, though right after stopping the buttocks muscle inflammation once again flared. Actually I have already noticed that masturbation can increase this symptom, but after an O it tends to resolve, so this symptom is somehow associated to not getting off the load. A further confirmation of this is the fact that in the past this symptom often arose around the acute-chronic POIS phase transition, thus about a week after an O. As for cashew nuts I don’t think they affected the eye symptoms much. The morning was marginally better than usual, though I also felt a bit tired as I woke up frequently due to passing storms. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. I think it had a weak-moderate benefit overall, but common walnut was still a little better I think.

Lemon verbena tea (Aloysia citrodora Palau) [leaf]: I made a hot tea by adding a large tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. The eyes were about moderately bloodshot through the day, so no clear help there, though an induction could be suspected it was also not clearly detrimental. Gut issues were only weakly better. I masturbated for a short time in the evening and I had no problem raising the flag. The sexual function in general felt rather normal. The morning felt rather usual, but at least the first urine was not particularly burning and rhinitis was slightly better. Nevertheless lemon verbena was a bit disappointing as I expected a little more from it, so this only gets a weak score as of now.
Of course citral may be suspected for negative effects as I also had problems with lemongrass earlier.
Constituents: citral (30–35%), nerol, geraniol and verbascoside (acteoside).

Pecan nuts (Carya illinoinensis): I ate about 55 g in day without an O. Besides resembling to common walnut, they also tasted very similarly. I expected that it may have a similar efficacy, but then I was disappointed. The eyes remained about moderately bloodshot, so I don’t think it helps anyhow with this particular symptom. Gut issues were weakly or weak-moderately better, but I couldn’t see such an improvement as with regular walnuts. I also felt rather regularly in the morning, thus I can only give this a weak rating.
As with other nuts aflatoxin may pose a problem, thus caution is advised. I think that the variety of the nuts could be also important as in case of walnuts only the pure white ones showed a noticeable benefit.

Ironwort/mountain tea (Sideritis scardica): I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. The eyes remained about moderately bloodshot, so it does not seem to help with that. I also masturbated some in the afternoon and the sexual function seemed rather normal in a good way. Gut issues were only a little better. The morning felt pretty much as usual, so its effect wasn’t significant. Ironwort only gets a weak rating in an acute setting.
Constituents: diterpenoids and flavonoids.

Pellitory/Spanish chamomile/bertram (Anacyclus pyrethrum) [ground Bertram root]: I consumed with 2 teaspoons (4 x half) in a day with an O. It was less effective than I had hoped, but it still has some use. I couldn’t see any major initial reaction, but I had an O in the afternoon. The sexual function was rather alright as I had a good erection and endurance, but the libido and control were more like normal. The ejaculate was moderately burning once again. The eye symptoms got somewhat worse after O, but not too much and by morning they were only bloodshot to a normal level. The morning otherwise felt rather usual, but not bad. I could not see any anti-depressive effect. Gut issues were only weakly better. Currently I can say that it has about a weak-moderate benefit. Based on the short tests it may have a similar efficacy as regular chamomile, but even so I had a better experience with chrysanthemum.
Interestingly some studies show that bertram increases testosterone, libido, overall energy and mental acuity, thus it may still show a better benefit with time.

Guar gum: I consumed 3 bigger teaspoon worth (about 10 g) in a day without an O. The eyes remained lightly bloodshot through the day and they were actually rather alright in the morning, though I still had regular photophobia, thus it may help a little. Depression and other symptoms remained light as most of the time, so nothing significant otherwise. Gut issues were weak-moderately better. The morning felt mostly as usual.

Digestion herbal blend [1 teabag contains: 400 mg mint herb, 270 mg fennel fruit, 250 mg melissa, 250 mg chamomile flower, 200 mg hibiscus, 140 mg dandelion, 110 mg lemongrass herb, 90 mg green tea leaf, 40 mg turmeric; Rd: 2 teabags]: I used 3 tea bags in a day to make tea without an O. The eyes remained lightly bloodshot throughout the day. It showed some anti-inflammatory effect and yet it did not do anything spectacular. Gut issues were only weakly better and I had a better experience with guar gum in this regard. The morning felt mostly as usual, though at least I had some spontaneous erections after getting up.

Inulin powder [derived from Blue Agave Tequilana Webber]: I consumed 3 teaspoon worth (about 10 g) in a day without an O. This day I also had an increased workload. Fortunately I was not particularly unwell by the time I went home. I masturbated some in the afternoon and the sexual function felt rather normal. I had some precum, but symptoms only got a little worse afterwards. After showering the eyes felt rather tired though as it usually happens. Certainly exercise intolerance and sexual activity both make my eyes very sensitive to showering. The morning felt mostly as usual. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. All-in-all it gets a weak-moderate rating. While useful I think inulin needs to be combined with other things like milk thistle to really show its power as a standalone treatment it may not do that much.

Ground milk thistle seeds [Rd: 2 tablespoons (10g)]: I consumed with 2 tablespoons in a day without an O. It seemed to improve bloodshot eyes a little and even after masturbating in the afternoon it only got a little worse. The sexual function was rather alright, though not especially good. Unfortunately I also developed a weak chest inflammation due to the edging. I could not see a distinct anti-depressive effect as with some of the other forms. Gut issues were certainly better to about a moderate-good degree. The morning felt mostly as usual though and even the chest inflammation persisted weakly which was inconvenient. As a possible side-effect I felt a slight tension in the head right after masturbation and also in the morning, though I am not sure if it was due to the supplement or due to the strain of excessive masturbation. Nevertheless I can score this as moderate.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Frank on October 30, 2023, 11:25:13 PM

Have you tried the cognitex with prenenonlone?

https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02397/cognitex-elite-pregnenolone

I only ask because I bought the non-pregnenolone one by mistake as it had been recommended by another poster here.

I have read an interesting article regarding its neurological impacts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427920/

I will soon begin taking it at a smaller dosage 10mg when it arrives.

I am seeing an endocrinologist to who I suggested trying pregnenolone concurrently to other treatments. They advised that it is rather safe and can offer neurosteroid protection to the brain as these hormones and their derivatives are known to exhibit. They suspect that TRT works in similar nature.

Quote from: Progecitor on October 30, 2023, 03:46:12 PM

Cognitex Elite [1 tablet contains: 100 mg calcium, 80 mg phosphorus, 166 mg sage extract (2.5% rosmarinic acid), 100 mg blueberry blend, 63 mg ashwagandha extract (10% withanolide), 50 mg phosphatidylserine, 25 mg uridine-5’-monophophate disodium, 10 mg vinpocetine); Rd: 2]: I took 2 pills without an O. This day I had a very serious workload meaning 11 hours of physical work under the blazing sun, so exercise intolerance was an issue. I couldn’t see a distinct anti-depressive effect as with the PS capsules, but generally I was feeling less depressed than usual. The eyes weren’t particularly better and after showering they still became moderately bad, which only got a little better by morning. In the morning I had a slight head-ache for a short time which may have been a side-effect. Gut issues were about moderately better as the burning pain was noticeably reduced, however stool quality wasn’t particularly better. The urine was burning as usual even in the morning. Rhinitis was noticeably reduced both in the evening and the following morning, though this wasn’t very significant. I think this one deserves a moderate score, though the heavy exercise intolerance doesn’t make this test very representative.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on January 02, 2024, 05:33:11 PM

This may be commonplace for us, but I thought to share some observations about my POIS loops.
I guess it is rather normal that right after an orgasm I would instantly lose all interest in sexual activity and in a way I would feel indifference or even a little repulsed by any sexual sight or thoughts. Then day by day I would slowly regain my libido, which would often become noticeably better after around a week. After taking many supplements it is clear that many of them can help with sexual vigor and I would be able to perform really well in just a day or two, despite being in acute POIS and having various symptoms. By taking supplements to improve sexual health the symptoms would be also less, but still there nevertheless. Even though my acute and chronic POIS are not majorly different I would still often experience the transition that happens around the one week mark. When I masturbated in acute POIS while watching some porn videos I would kind of like the experience, but only in a normal manner. So what I find intriguing is that around the transition's time the sexual thoughts would begin to feel exhilarating and I would get a real craving for sex and not just in a "I-may-as-well-do-it" manner. Sexual images and videos would feel very stimulating and they would also fill me with a kind of inner warmth. Of course I mean this in a psychological manner, but at the same time it also holds true in a physiological manner. Right after orgasms I would often begin to feel very cold in a matter of minutes, but I would also get partly used to the feeling in the following days and it would not be that bothersome. However around the transition's time sometimes I would be hit with this sudden feeling of inner warmth and becoming better at the same time. This is clearly associated to the reduction of inflammation as well, as the burning pain would also feel less pronounced. Regarding the psychological aspect this inner warmth is really-really deceiving. By being well in this state it would feel like doing any sexual activity is the most natural and right thing to do, while the thought of not doing it would simply feel unnatural and repulsive. Of course after more than a thousand of failings I know perfectly well in a rational manner what will happen if I give in to the urge and yet time and time again I find myself at square one in cold hell. Thus the inevitability of POIS loops is clearly due the need of seeking this inner warmth and to delve in it. While the every day coldness and stress drives me towards it in an ever accelerating motion.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on January 04, 2024, 12:06:53 PM

Quote from: Frank on October 30, 2023, 11:25:13 PM

Have you tried the cognitex with prenenonlone?

https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02397/cognitex-elite-pregnenolone

I only ask because I bought the non-pregnenolone one by mistake as it had been recommended by another poster here.

I have read an interesting article regarding its neurological impacts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427920/

I will soon begin taking it at a smaller dosage 10mg when it arrives.

I am seeing an endocrinologist to who I suggested trying pregnenolone concurrently to other treatments. They advised that it is rather safe and can offer neurosteroid protection to the brain as these hormones and their derivatives are known to exhibit. They suspect that TRT works in similar nature.

Quote from: Progecitor on October 30, 2023, 03:46:12 PM

Cognitex Elite [1 tablet contains: 100 mg calcium, 80 mg phosphorus, 166 mg sage extract (2.5% rosmarinic acid), 100 mg blueberry blend, 63 mg ashwagandha extract (10% withanolide), 50 mg phosphatidylserine, 25 mg uridine-5’-monophophate disodium, 10 mg vinpocetine); Rd: 2]: I took 2 pills without an O. This day I had a very serious workload meaning 11 hours of physical work under the blazing sun, so exercise intolerance was an issue. I couldn’t see a distinct anti-depressive effect as with the PS capsules, but generally I was feeling less depressed than usual. The eyes weren’t particularly better and after showering they still became moderately bad, which only got a little better by morning. In the morning I had a slight head-ache for a short time which may have been a side-effect. Gut issues were about moderately better as the burning pain was noticeably reduced, however stool quality wasn’t particularly better. The urine was burning as usual even in the morning. Rhinitis was noticeably reduced both in the evening and the following morning, though this wasn’t very significant. I think this one deserves a moderate score, though the heavy exercise intolerance doesn’t make this test very representative.

I have already taken the full box of pills of Cognitex Elite (without pregnenolone) and unfortunately I can't claim it to be particularly useful. Usually I took it with other stuff, so it is hard to say anything about individual efficacy. My current protocol is to take many supplements, but only in lower doses, so I did not take more than 1 or rarely 2 pills in a day. There were a few times when I felt rather nicely, but  at other times I couldn't make out much of a difference from baseline depression, which makes me think that Cognitex Elite only had a marginal benefit and other supplements like a combination of Ecdysterone, Guggul and saffron must have been responsible for the greater boost. Personally I believe that phosphatidylserine must be the most active compound in the formula as I had benefited more from a higher dose of standalone phosphatidylserine treatment. However when I only took a smaller dose (100 mg) of that one, it also did not show much benefit either. A higher dose could be used, but it probably carries some associated risks as well.
I did not choose the one with pregnenolone intentionally as I had problems with a standalone pregnenolone product before, but may consider it in the future, though it is rather costly to buy such an expensive product just to throw away after a few pills. If you tried them both can you make a comparison to tell if there is any advantage for the pregnenolone containing one at least for you personally?
I see others benefited from a combination of pregnenolone and DHEA. I did not have much luck with DHEA either, though I only tested it for a short while. Actually my blood test shows normal DHEA levels, so it may be even unreasonable to supplement further. Of course this may not mean much as the testosterone level is also above average and yet testosterone boosters consistently provide the most acute benefit regardless.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on January 28, 2024, 10:43:35 AM

I often struggle to find the correct medical terms for my symptoms. At least the last POIS study helped to clarify one of these. The bloodshot eye problem can be clearly defined as conjunctival hyperemia. This condition is actually fairly common. In my case it is a very strong indicator of the actual POIS state. It is very common that about half an hour after an O, this problem would emerge forcefully and in a short time the eyes would become quite ugly. Generally I would feel gradually worse around this time. The recovery from this state is a slow process and it would often remain so in the chronic phase. However the symptom amplitude would often decrease apparently at the 7 day shift.
I believe that testosterone boosters and flavonoids are generally useful for this condition, though their efficacy and persistence would often falter in the face of the magnitude of POIS.
Some info on conjunctival hyperemia:
https://ophthalmologybreakingnews.com/conjunctival-hyperemia--causes-complications-and-solutions

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on February 10, 2024, 02:21:00 PM

The last few items of the individual test phase and some new products that I have tested afterwards.

Hepafix [In 1 capsule: 280 mg milk thistle extract (DER 25:1) with 126 mg silymarin, 280 mg artichoke extract (DER 6:1) with 14 mg cynarin; Rd:1]: I took it for two days with a dosage of 3 caps per day, but I did not have an O. On the first afternoon I masturbated and the sexual capability felt rather average. Interestingly though not too long after getting up in the first morning I had some strong spontaneous erections which may indicate a positive effect on libido, however nothing like this happened on the second morning. The weak chest inflammation I had earlier mostly resolved by the first morning (second day). On the second day I had to travel a long distance by car which evidently put a strain on my body as it happened similarly in the past. I don’t have motion sickness, but I still wasn’t feeling well by the time I had arrived home and also developed a headache just like in the past. I could see a little positive effect on the eyes on the first day, but not on the second day, so its effect was minimal. I could not experience an anti-depressive effect as with some other milk thistle products. I also had a bad rhinitis and the urine was burning as usual. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, but not particularly so and the ground milk thistle seeds were certainly better in this regard. Frankly it was a little disappointing as even the ground milk thistle seeds felt better, so I can only give this a weak score at the moment.
In the meantime I have almost consumed the whole box (about 100 caps) by taking daily one before going to bed. My verdict is that it doesn’t really cause any significant change in POIS unfortunately.

Capers: I ate a whole little jar with a drained net weight of 65 g in a day and had an O. The eyes were only lightly bloodshot, but I could not notice a clear improvement, however even after O they only got slightly worse, so I think it has a protective effect against deterioration at least. I had the O in the late evening which is not ideal, as the eyes felt really dry during masturbation. Regarding the sexual function the libido was possibly below average, while the control and erection felt rather average. Nevertheless I could go for a long time, so the endurance was evidently above average at least. The ejaculate was probably a little burning, but I missed to take notice of this, so it was not bad at least. The morning felt more like a chronic day, so capers clearly helped lowering the POIS bump, however I was still not particularly well. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. As a possible side-effect I felt a strong throbbing of the vein on the left side of the neck in the evening, but this may also indicate a blood vessel strengthening effect, so not necessarily detrimental. As an overall score I can evaluate this as weak-moderate, though it is clearly not rational to consume such a big amount on a daily basis.
Capers is a good source of methylglucosinolate, quercetin and rutin.

Powdered blond plantain husks (Plantago ovata) [Rd: max 5 teaspoon]: I consumed 4 teaspoon worth in a day without an O. When put in water it forms a gel very similar to guar gum. This one did not appear to be effective for eye symptoms. Gut issues were a little better. Otherwise I could not see any particular change, so it was a little disappointing. It is a possible source of acteoside, which I consider to be a good thing. It is also a common source of psyllium, that may be fermented into butyric acid in the gut. In the future I plan to use it as an additive when baking gluten free bread.

Pectin: I took 2.5 teaspoon worth in a day without an O. I had a little more work than usual and exercise intolerance was an issue. The eyes were somewhat more bloodshot than usual and I am not sure if the exercise intolerance alone could explain this. The quality of the stool was very strange that I would not even describe. Well, it was kind of hilarious and disturbing at the same time by encasing the motion of peristalsis. At least the burning pain felt a little reduced, so pectin may be not detrimental in a POIS manner. 

Arabian seven spice blend [powder; constituents: black pepper, caraway, red pepper (paprika), coriander, allspice, cinnamon, cardamom]: I consumed with 2 teaspoons (4 x half) in a day as a tea without an O. The eyes did not appear to change much during the day and they were mostly moderately bloodshot. Gut issues appeared a little better, but not much really and the burning pain was rather usual.
Certainly I had some positive experience with most of the constituents, however black pepper and red pepper may be suspected for negative effects as well due to their pungency.
Actually I have been using it some time for spicing the food with other stuff. As I would often experience an increase in the burning pain on the following days, I suspect it could have a detrimental effect as well. It also got expired in the meantime, which may also contribute to this problem. I think I will put this in the mixed category for now.

Couch grass 2 (Elymus repens (L.) Gould): Accidentally I bought another brand of this, so I tested it again. I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. Actually once again I had more work and it was kind of dirty. A lot of particles got into my eyes, which made one of them rather inflamed and painful and it could only partly recover by next morning. Nevertheless I don’t think it helped with eye symptoms. Disregarding the painful eye I masturbated some in the afternoon. The sexual function felt rather alright as it had been a bit above average. It felt like it had some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues as well, but altogether it was not that significant. Currently I can only give it a weak score.

Garden cress sprout (Lepidium sativum) [grown for about a week]: I ate quite an amount of sprouts throughout a day and also consumed 1 teaspoon of its seeds before going to sleep. Both the sprouts and seed tasted a little bitter and pungent. I masturbated a little, but I still felt sexually tired from the previous day. The eyes did not seem to improve at all. The morning felt mostly as usual, though I was not particularly unwell. Gut issues were a little better, but I could not see a significant difference. It only gets a weak score.
Anecdotally it is considered an aphrodisiac as well. I guess some of its phyto-constituents could be similar to that of maca.

Walnut leaf tea: I had some positive experience with this in the past. Particularly it helped a few times when I had a bad stomachache, which is rather rare for me though. This time I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I think it had a little benefit on the eye issues as they were only lightly bloodshot throughout the day. At one time I experienced an increased tinnitus. In the evening I also masturbated some without an O and the sexual function appeared mostly normal. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. The morning felt mostly usual though one of the eyes felt a little painful, but at least it was only normally bloodshot. I think walnut leaf tea is about weak-moderately helpful, but a higher dose could be problematic.

Dimenhydrinate (Daedalon) [50 mg per pill; Rd: max 8]: I tried this on two separate days by taking 3 pills each day and had an O on one of them. I developed a weak chest inflammation on both occasions, but in the first case it was probably due to the ejaculation and the second time I ate some processed cookies which evidently boosted POIS intensity. At both times I felt a reduction of rhinitis, but it was not complete and it was also paralleled with nasal congestion. I don’ think it did much about eye symptoms or depression. Regarding sexual function it was mostly normal, but it felt more difficult to reach an O than usual. Gut issues were somewhat better at least. I think it deserves a weak-moderate rating, but as for anti-histamines I would rather opt for cetirizine.
Some POISers had a really good experience with Dramamine which is the same drug, but in my case it helps only about as much as the other anti-histamines and in itself it does not account to much.

Colloidal silver: I consumed with 3 half coffeespoon in a day without an O. The product was not recommended for internal use, so I was rather unsure about the dosage. Even so this amount showed some benefit. I did not see much change during the day, though the symptoms felt only light. In the evening I developed a weak-moderate buttocks inflammation, similarly to what may happen with a zinc supplement. I also felt some sporadic prostatic pain during the evening. At least when I got up during the night I certainly felt better. I was more aware, thus less depressed, but my sleep quality also suffered possibly due to this. The rhinitis also felt reduced, though nasal congestion was an issue as most of the time. In the morning the libido felt improved. Gut issues were weakly better. It certainly seems like colloidal silver helps with POIS symptoms maybe to a moderate level, however at the same time side-effects and possible toxicity may not make its use worthwhile.

From this point every test was conducted while taking other stuff as well. This makes it really difficult to differentiate individual effects. At least I was taking the new supplements in a greater amount while also trying to avoid really good stuff, though hardly anything works really well anyway.

Tamsulosin (tamsulosin hydrochloride) [0.4 mg; Rd: 1]: I managed to get this as my father was prescribed to it, but refused to take it. I took daily one pill for 10 days and had an O on the 2nd and 4th days. I also had an O on the 11th day, but I had no more pills by then. I had no retrograde ejaculation on either of these occasions, though of course I do masturbate a bit excessively which may modulate outcome. POIS symptoms weren’t too bad, but they weren’t much better either, so tamsulosin does not appear to have a significant impact in general.

SAM-e (S-Adenosyl-L-methionine disulfate tosylate) [100 mg per capsule; Rd: 4 (2x2)]: Yet another supplement I had tested while treating myself. For this reason it is hard to decipher individual effects. At least I can say that it does not help with depression or bloodshot eyes. However it may actually help with gut issues about moderately. At least I am glad that it is not harmful, though I find it too expensive in view of cost-benefit. It also did not resolve my food sensitivities. After continuous use its efficacy also seemed to drop somewhat.

Turmeric powder (supplementary grade): I took this for several weeks as part of a powder tea blend, but unfortunately I can’t say I had noticed a particular benefit while on it.

Glutathione (NOW) [250 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I tested it while treating myself. Even so I could not really see any particular change on the numerous occasions I took it. I find this a bit disappointing really.

Glutathione complex [150 mg vitamin C, 100 mg glutathione, 100 mg NAC, 90 mg L-glutamine, 60 mg milk thistle, 45 mg L-glycine, 35 mg peppermint, 35 mg oregano powder, 6 mg pantothenic acid, 5 mg lutein, 50ug vitamin D3; Rd:1]: I took daily two on a few days, but once again it wasn’t of particular use. It was possibly a little more useful than the other product, but still not in a significant way and even so the role of glutathione can be questioned as the weak benefit could be due to the other components like NAC.

R-lipoic acid (sodium R-lipoic acid) [50 mg per capsule; Rd:1-2]: It has a noticeable benefit. While not outstanding it helps with gut issues and I think it even has a very slight anti-depressive effect, but this can’t be perceived every time. I guess it has a moderate power.

Oyster mushroom extract (Pleurotus ostreatus) [417 mg per capsule containing 125 mg beta-D-glucan; Rd:1]: Usually I took 2 caps on several days, but I could not see it making any significant difference. It probably helps a little, but not likely more than that. Afterwards I have been taking it for weeks (daily one), yet I could not see any significant benefit.
Pleuran is a beta-glucan derived from it, which should have a benefit in respiratory conditions.

King trumpet mushroom (Pleurotus eryngii) [powder]: Usually I took about 3 x 1/3 teaspoon worth per day put in hot water. Surprisingly it provides a noticeable benefit which once again appears about 6 hours after intake. I was feeling a little better and even got a little anti-depression out of it. The most significant effect was probably the reduction in the burning pain problem. It is interesting to note that one study finds that specifically Pleurotus eryngii contains compounds that show an anti-aromatase activity, which further confirms its key role in my case.

(generic) Propolis [165 mg per capsule containing 12.5 mg flavonoid; Rd:2]: Generally I have been taking 2-3 for several days. It also seems to have a positive effect on rhinitis, but this effect is less pronounced than of the Brazilian bee propolis trio. It may get a weaker moderate score.

Maca extract (yet another brand) (Lepidium meyenii) [400 mg of 5:1 extract per capsule; Rd:1]: As usual I took 3 in a day. This one had a really significant effect. It was kind of a pleasant surprise as I have been taking other maca products fairly regularly with only minimal benefit. This only shows that one really has to try maca extracts of different brands to see a benefit and even among them the efficacy can be very varied even when considering the proportion of the extract. As usual I would suddenly begin to feel kind of well about six hours after intake. It was even better when I took it along with hericium or king trumpet mushroom.

Lion's mane mushroom (Hericium erinaceus) [500 mg per capsule containing 100 mg polysaccharides; Rd:1]: I took 3 in a day, but even after the first one it was clearly beneficial. About 6 hours after intake I began to feel well. The next day I combined it with maca extract and saffron and I felt really well as a result. At least its anti-depressive effect lasted more than many of the other anti-depressant supplements, which makes this a prospective choice.

Monolaurin (Glyceryl Monolaurate [GML] derived from coconut) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took daily two capsules for several days. I don’t think it has any anti-depressive effect. However I believe it has a relatively good effect on rhinitis. It wasn’t as good as the brazilian propolis trio, but still provided a noticeable benefit. I think I also noticed some reduction in the burning pain of urination. On one of the days when I took the two caps closer in time I experienced some prostatic cramps that may have been due to monolaurin, though of course not necessarily as I had not experienced such on the following days. At the time I was also recovering from some infection, but I could not see an actual improvement in the slow recovery process. Thus monolaurin has some benefits, but I wouldn’t claim it to be very significant.

Shark liver oil complex [Ingredients in one liquid flow capsule: 100 mg alkoxy glycerols, 10 mg squalane, 10 mg garlic extract (0.2 mg allicin, 0.35 mg alliin), 200 ug vit A, 25 ug vit D, 3 mg vit E, 5 mg zinc; Rd:2]: I took daily two for more than a week. I can’t say I had noticed any considerable change though. Either the source is not sufficient to reach an adequate plasmalogen level or it has a lesser role in acute treatment and works more as a preventive, just like vitamin D. Actually I think this specific product could be a good addition to a stack based on its ingredient list.

Shark liver oil (from Iceland shark) [One softgel capsule contains 25 mg omega-3 fatty acids and 100 mg alkoxy glycerols; Rd:2]: I took daily one capsule. Once again there was nothing striking about it, but I decided to keep on taking it as part of a daily stack due to its supposed health benefits. I have been taking it for weeks now (daily one), but I couldn’t notice any significant improvement, so I guess it could be good for general health, but not for POIS specifically.

Oregano capsules [150 mg from 1500 mg oregano (10:1 extract) containing 70% carvacrol; Rd:1]: I have been taking it alongside other stuff for more than two months, but I couldn’t see it doing anything significant. It probably helps a little, but it is certainly less beneficial than the oregano oil essence, like I did not experience any muscle relief. At one time I took two caps at once, but the only thing that happened is that I developed a moderate headache a few hours later. Even so other symptoms did not change whatsoever. While I was taking daily one no such headache happened at least, so it appears fairy safe otherwise.

Apple cider vinegar [400 mg per capsule; Rd:2]: I took a whole box, but only one per day before going to sleep. I can’t say I have noticed any significant benefit, but in the past I have already had a positive experience with apple cider vinegar for sleep issues. I believe it makes a good combination with myricetin in this regard, so I will continue taking it as part of a night stack.

Turkesterone (Ajuga Turkestanica) [600 mg per capsule standardized to 10% turkesterone; Rd:2]: I took 3 in a day and had an O. This is another testosterone booster that I expected to have some benefit. It really did so as it clearly had some anti-depressive effect. It also had some positive effect on the eyes, though they still became a little worse after O. Of course it did not resolve POIS completely, but it is still a nice supplement nonetheless. As an ecdysteroid turkesterone’s effect rather resembles that of ecdysterone, though I can’t really say which is better at the moment. It clearly goes in the best category.

Fadogia agrestis [600 mg 10:1 stem extract per capsule; Rd: 1]: Yet another testosterone booster. Similarly to before I took 3 in a day and had an O. I could not experience an anti-depressive effect as with turkesterone and due to my disappointment and on a whim I took some other testosterone boosters (Catuaba+Diosgen (Wild Yam)+Rhaponticum tribulus+Giloy) along with it in the afternoon. Now in the evening I had some crazy good sexual performance as it felt like I have an unlimited endurance. After O I still felt slightly worse, but eye symptoms did not deteriorate as they usually do. I also noticed that I could move around easier both in the evening and morning, though I still had some muscle pain. Yet in the morning I had some usual POIS symptoms, so the protective effect could not hold that much. Of course at the moment I can’t really say if Fadogia is effective at all, but I suspect it is one of those testosterone boosters that need more time to set in as in the case of Cistanche.

Pure Royal Jelly: I took half a teaspoon 3 times in a day. Unfortunately it did not have any profound effect. It did not seem to provide an anti-depressive effect, though in the evening I may have felt a little less depressed. The eyes also did not seem to improve, though I masturbated some in the afternoon and they did not become particularly worse either. In the morning there was a clear reduction in the pain of urination, which may be the most significant effect, unless it was due to something else I took. The rhinitis was possibly slightly better, but propolis is certainly more useful in this regard. I used a higher amount than recommended, thus I would have expected some better results. I think it is a good idea to mix it in honey and use it that way and not as a singular supplement. Some time ago I also used up the royal ginseng capsules and I think that ginseng was the more active principle. I guess it deserves a weak-moderate rating when used alone.

Hericium powder: I took 3 half teaspoon worth in a day. It was a bit of a letdown. It had some anti-inflammatory effect, but it did not have an anti-depressive effect. I don’t think it was a quality issue as it came from the same producer as the king trumpet mushroom, however in this form the latter was more effective. Later I may try to encapsulate both and see if that makes a difference in their effectiveness. I guess if anyone wants to see if medicinal mushrooms could be useful, then they should really choose the extract types.

Suppository for prostatitis [ingredients: pumpkin seed, gotu kola, Boswellia oil extract, immortelle, Vitamin E, tea tree, hyaluronic acid, semisynthetic glycerides; Rd:1]: I have been applying it for more than a month now by using daily one. It is claimed to begin to work after about 1 month. For me it works right away, but only for a few hours and even so the resolution is only partial and mostly involves the local burning pain, however not other symptoms. I think its effect got a little better on the second week as the anus was not feeling as painful as usual when I applied it. Unfortunately I couldn’t see any further improvements henceforth even after one month. Whenever I have an O the burning pain would still punch through this protective barrier like molten lava. Nevertheless it is certainly a nice complimentary to oral supplements that would take a lot of time to reach the site of action and their effect would also dwindle on the way. As a further measure I have been applying some hemorrhoid creams mostly as a preventive measure. They can reduce the local irritation temporarily, but the severe itching would still punch through most of the time. I guess the Aurobin ointment is more powerful at least.

Niacin (vitamin B3) [10 mg; Rd: 1 (62.5%)]: I took 10, 20 and 30 mg along a day (60 mg altogether) and had an O. It was a nice surprise as even the first pill produced a noticeable benefit, which was about the same as of one pill of niacinamide (500 mg). The latter doses worked even better. However there was no flushing in any case or I just missed it. The timing also followed the 6-7 hour pattern. I felt the best when I woke up in the middle of the night, which was about 7-8 hours after the third dose. I was really aware with reduced depression and even the photophobia felt quite reduced. The muscles also felt like they had more energy. By morning the symptoms felt more like on a chronic day. I guess niacin deserves a place in the best category.

Cordyceps extract (Cordyceps sinensis) [1 pill contains 200 mg extract with 80 mg (40%) of polysaccharides; Rd: 2]: I took 4 pills in a day and had an O. It had some use, but it wasn’t powerful like the hericium capsules or niacin from the other days. It did not have a clear anti-depressive effect or only a slight one. The sexual function felt mostly average. The ejaculate was somewhat burning and POIS began a little worse this time. In the morning I wasn’t particularly unwell at least. I think this particular product deserves a weak-moderate rating.

Lactoferrin powder (bovine origin) [contains all 3 forms, but mostly apo lactoferrin; Rd: 2-4g or max 3x4g (12g)]: I took with 5 teaspoons (about 10 g) in a day. A few hours after intake I would feel slightly better, but this wasn’t that remarkable. Gut issues also appeared a little better, but not significantly. I guess similarly to other prebiotics lactoferrin acts more like a protective agent and should be taken more like a preventive, but it won’t acutely resolve the inflammation. Taking this much daily would be quite costly, so I will probably take it in a small amount just like the other prebiotics (inulin, beta glucan).

Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianum) [500 mg per capsule containing 400 mg of silymarin; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day alongside other stuff. The eyes were quite alright in the early afternoon, probably due to a synergy with the morning stack, but later they were more like average. I think I felt a slight anti-depressive effect at its peak, but otherwise it wasn’t particularly effective. Gut issues were somewhat better, but it wasn’t terrific. I guess it deserves a moderate score.

Herbal Gallbladder care [1 capsule contains: 140 mg milk thistle (98 mg silymarin), 140 mg burdock, 140 mg dandelion, 300 ug vitamin B6; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day. I did not find it to be particularly useful. Maybe it has some positive effect on gut issues. At the same time my eyes were moderately bad throughout the day. It may have been something I ate, but vitamin B6 could be suspected as well. At least I did not have a gallbladder pain, which is often a problem, when taking many supplements together.

Lycopene [20 mg per softgel capsules; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules in a day. I clearly felt better right after the first capsule. It has some anti-depressive effect. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the symptoms were only slightly worse afterwards. The morning certainly felt better than on an average day. While lycopene does not solve every problem, it is still a really nice supplement. I can certainly put this in the best category.

Male Vascular Sexual Support/Black Ginger (Kaempferia parviflora) [100 mg rhizome extract std. to 5% 5,7-dimethoxyflavone; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules in a day and had an O. It wasn’t as good as lycopene, but it had some use. In the evening I masturbated and had an O. Strangely the sexual performance was kind of bad contrary to my expectations. I had a low libido and it was really hard too keep up the flag. It may have been sexual exhaustion from the previous day, but who knows. At least symptoms only became a little worse after the event. In the morning I felt much like on a usual day, so it must have had some preventive effect at least. Interestingly when I woke up in the morning the flag was erect, though this was nowhere as strong as with asafoetida. It may deserve a moderate-good rating, but its effect on sexual function has to be verified.

Catalase [1 capsule contains 5000 UI catalase enzyme and 400 mg Vitamin C; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps in a day and had an O. Even though I am kind of sure in the involvement of lipid peroxidation, still it doesn’t seem like either glutathione or catalase to be particularly useful. The sexual function was better than on the previous day, but still mostly average. At O the ejaculation was burning more than usual. Even so symptoms did not rapidly get worse afterwards and only a little worse by bedtime. As a possible side-effect I felt some tension in the head in the evening, which made me skip on a third capsule. The morning felt mostly average, but at least it was not particularly bad. There may have been some reduction in the pain of urination, but I am not sure. Thus catalase may have some protective power, but it doesn’t seem to be able to improve symptoms any significantly. It gets a weak score.

Betaine HCL [1 capsule contains: 650 mg betaine HCL and 150 mg pepsin; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day. It may work, but in a subdued way. I could not see a direct anti-depressive effect as depression was light and unchanged throughout the day. In the afternoon I developed a weak headache, but it was only weakly present by morning, so I am not sure if it is a side-effect. In the morning I also had a nasal congestion, which was clearly due to betain HCL. Rhinitis was probably reduced as a consequence, though it is hard to tell, as it wasn’t strong to begin with. I don’t think it improved gut issues particularly much, but it may have some benefit. I have already tried a digestive enzyme complex several years ago and it seemed to help with food coma that often exacerbates baseline depression. Lactase enzyme similarly helped in conjunction with milk consumption, so I guess betaine with pepsin could be used for a similar purpose to take some burden off the body.

Thyme and propolis [1 capsule contains 130 mg thyme leaf, 130 mg propolis, 80 mg vitamin C, 40 mg shiitake mushroom; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day. It probably helps a little, but I couldn’t see a significant improvement. In the morning POIS was a little worse actually, but I suspect it was due to something I ate. Though it could be several things I suspect the brazil nuts I ate, that also tasted a little rancid.

Quercetin Plus [1 capsule contains 400 mg quercetin, 100 mg bromelain, 25 mg zinc; Rd:2]: I took 3 caps in a day. Unfortunately I could not see much benefit. It did not have any anti-depressive activity and eye issues didn’t seem better either. Interestingly when I woke up in the morning I couldn’t hear the tinnitus, though after getting up it returned, but this may indicate that quercetin could be useful for this condition long-term. In the morning rhinitis also appeared a little better, though I did not have a nasal congestion. Gut issue were also a little better, though not significantly. While its acute effect is certainly not remarkable quercetin could act in a subdued way that may be beneficial long-term.

Ginseng complex for man [500 mg per capsule containing 70 mg panax ginseng, 250 mg astragalus, 80 mg angelica root; Rd:4]: I had a bit more work than usual and accordingly developed bad bloodshot eyes and muscle pain. However by the time I went home the eyes seemed and felt noticeably better. In the afternoon I took 2 caps at once and early evening I even felt some anti-depression besides feeling a little better overall. When I woke up during the night I felt quite alright, though I couldn’t fall asleep again due to dry eyes, which is a frequent problem. The morning was clearly a bit better than usual and even the muscle fatigue and burning urine condition appeared a little improved. My libido also felt improved in the morning. Its overall efficacy was a little bellow the lycopene supplement that I had tried recently, but still quite nice nevertheless. It goes into the good category.

Myo-inositol [powder; Rd: 2g]: I took 5g (2-1-2g) in a day. I forgot to take my morning stack, but even so it clearly improved bloodshot eyes by the end of work. However as a downside I also developed a bit painful cramping flatulence by this time. By evening this mostly resolved. In the morning I had a slight cramping once again. The eyes were relatively alright, but photophobia persisted. When I woke up in the morning I felt slightly better, but I couldn’t notice any anti-depressive effect otherwise. There wasn’t anything else particularly noteworthy. I think it has about a moderate effect, but the ginseng complex from the other day was clearly better. I also wouldn’t take more than 1g at once as it can clearly lead to cramping trouble.

Loperamide (loperamide hydrochloride) [2 mg per pill; Rd: 1-6 (max: eight)]: I took 4 pills separately in a day and had an O. It does not seem to have an anti-depressive effect, however in the early afternoon I could see some improvement in eye bloodshotness and it had an anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. Of course this means increased flatulence, but at least it was devoid of cramping unlike myo-inositol. Instead it caused some loud bowel grumbles about 2-3 hours after intake as an inconvenience. The anti-inflammatory effect seemed to peak about 5-6 hours after consumption. I masturbated in two sessions. After the first I had a little precum and there was an increase in eye problems, but they receded by evening. In the evening I had an actual O. I had a good erection, but control was average and had to be careful not to come early. The ejaculate was minimally burning if at all, however interestingly it was smellier than usual or at least it had a strong scent, which is usually less perceptible otherwise. I suspect this indicates some improvement, though I may be wrong about it. After O the eyes got a little worse again, but improved a little once again by the time I was going to bed. Interestingly I also felt like I could move around a little easier in the evening, thus it may have some benefit on muscle fatigue. Unfortunately in the morning the eyes were quite bloodshot and photophobic and I felt just as bad as I would expect on an acute POIS day. In the morning the stool was harder than usual, but not especially so and the burning pain felt rather usual, thus without significant change either way. Given everything it may have a moderate benefit, but constipation is usual bad for me due to toxic accumulation, so I will probably not use it on a daily basis.
By the way I ate about 10 pieces of Physalis in the morning and about two hours later the eye condition certainly improved. It didn’t do much else, but at least it shows that physalis has some clear benefit.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on February 26, 2024, 01:11:32 PM

I decided to do some light microscopy on my sperm. The maximum magnification I used was 1600x, so I could see the spermatozoa relatively well. The first time I had a moderately burning ejaculate (the previous O was about a week before) and even so the spermatozoa was quite vigorous as most of them were going around as crazy. I did not check beforehand to see what counts as abnormal, but I saw that there were quite a few with a pin like head, even so most of them seemed normal. When I turned on the device in the morning, about 10 hours later, most of them were non-motile, but at the center of the view one was still trying to move by lashing its tail. Thus I reckon this sample was rather normal. The second time turned out to be more interesting though. I had another O two days later and there was only a slight burning of the ejaculate. However when examining it under the microscope I was a bit surprised to find that it was mostly static. Most of the sperm were completely immobile and even those that moved seemed to be doing it very slowly. Once again I couldn’t see any major morphological issues, though I am not an expert of course. Practically every spermatozoa had a tail and even so they were not moving at all. Once again I saw quite a few with pin like heads, but they were not the majority and both types were about equally represented in the moving and non-moving groups. I tried to see if there was any other morphological difference between the moving and non-moving groups, but I just couldn’t see any. I tried to see if there is any abnormality in the middle part, where the mitochondria is located, but I just couldn’t ascertain if there were any. Either I lack the sight and expertise or some sample staining would need to be involved. Similarly I couldn’t tell if there was any excess residual cytoplasm. At a few sperm I thought I might have seen something like that, but for the most of them I just couldn’t see anything like that. Nevertheless I have to wonder if even healthy people would have such a paralyzed sperm when they were having sex on a daily basis, or if this is a phenomenon actually related to POIS. I will try to do such an examination more often and see if I can figure out anything more.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Hopeoneday on February 26, 2024, 06:52:33 PM

A microscope? Ideas on pois blod examing? https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4188.msg44773#msg44773


Pinhead sperm, a variation of the small-head sperm, is when the head appears as a pin with minimal to no paternal DNA content. The presence of pinhead sperm may point to a diabetic condition.

Sperm Morphology | Loma Linda University Center for Fertility ...

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Muon on February 28, 2024, 09:52:52 AM

You may use the AI for a quick overview which staining/dyes highlight specific components of sperm. If I remember correctly Methylene blue might stain mast cells but some granules will show up with a different color than blue. The problem is that you do not have a reference of normal cell biology in general.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 04, 2024, 03:02:25 PM

After the last O with many "dead" sperm my POIS was quite bad even though I was taking a lot of good supplements. Particularly one of the eyes was incessantly very bloodshot which sometimes happens and probably can be associated to a concurrent infection (eye covid?). I think this was the case this time as well and I have to wonder if it had to do anything with the dead sperm.
Nevertheless 5 days after the previous occasion I had another O. This time the sperm wasn’t particularly burning. Under the microscope it was once again quite lively. There were non-motile spermatozoa, but this was the smaller fraction. There were less with pin shaped heads and the most appeared what may be considered normal. What surprised me this time was a smaller fraction of the moving spermatozoa that acted quite crazily. I mean they were shaking their heads so frantically that seemed nothing like normal. They were also moving so fast that I couldn’t get a good look at them. I can only guess this was due to the many supplements I take, which may have doped them. Whether this is a good or bad thing is uncertain, but at least POIS wasn’t particularly bad afterwards and the eyes managed to recover in the following days at least to baseline.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 23, 2024, 11:20:10 AM

Quote from: Progecitor on February 22, 2022, 01:56:44 PM

Mumps may be another reason why I had developed POIS. One of the complications of mumps is orchitis (testes inflammation). Although orchitis is unusual for prepubertal males, but it may occur. Mumps orchitis is also often accompanied by epididymitis which is the inflammation of the epididymis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps

Unfortunately I can't remember practically anything about how this happened exactly, but it can't be excluded that orchitis may have occurred. If it was so then excessive or prolonged inflammation could have caused hypermethylation of genes in some genital tissues which would later result in primary onset of POIS even though being an acquired epigenetic alteration.

The results suggest that cytokines including TNF-a and transcriptional factors such as NF-kB (p65) contribute to silencing of SRD5A2 by regulating DNMT1 activity.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4061.0

Actually later I had recalled that there was a time in my childhood, when I had red testicles for what felt a long time. I think it was about two weeks or a bit more and I am rather certain that it happened right after my mumps viral infection. I remember I was quite scared at the time, but did not mention this to my parents as I had bad experience with the hospital visit when I had the Hydrocele sclerotisatio operation a few years beforehand. Of course it was an irrational fear, but this is how I was at the time. I only had my first ejaculation about 3 years after the mumps infection, so by that time I must have been already predisposed for POIS. Actually it was rather unfortunate that I have been infected by mumps at all, as I got the morbilli vaccine when I was a year old, which was most probably an MMR vaccine, which should have protected me against the measles, mumps and rubella trio. For a long time this transient orchitis did not even occur to me as a possibility for my POIS as the testicle redness went away and by simple logic I was cured. However this was only wishful thinking when considering a broader spectrum of evidences. After coming to the site and reading a lot of posts and then also hearing about ME/CFS being suspected as a post viral phenomenon helped in the revaluation of these earlier events. Others developed POIS as post covid comorbidity which only confirms this association further. In the meantime researchers have also proven that prolonged inflammation and the associated lipid peroxidation can lead to the development of autoimmunity. Of course this also means that other causes like overmasturbation or specific drugs could be the cause of POIS as well if they sustained an inflammation for an adequate amount of time for autoimmunity to develop. Autoimmunity can also drive the development of senescence and they share a similar inflammatory profile. I only wish I knew these things like 20 years ago and had the opportunity to use the supplements that now I have access to. At this point it just feels like I have gone too far on the POIS road and became irreversibly lost in its depths.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 27, 2024, 03:51:43 PM

8 and 7 days apart I had Os once again. On the first occasion the semen was not burning, but it had a stronger smell than usual and at the second time it was rather normal. At both times the sperm appeared less sticky while sampling with the spatula. Under the microscope the spermatozoa were mostly normal I think. At both times there were only few with pin-like heads and I also couldn’t see such extreme movement as beforehand. Most were moving ones, but in aggregates there were non-moving ones as well. I saw some with what may be considered excess residual cytoplasm at both times, but then again it was not a major phenotype. I also upgraded the magnification of the scope to 2000x, but I can’t say this made the observations much better due to the fast moving spermatozoa. On both occasions I had some POIS flare, but it wasn’t particularly bad. Of course I have been taking a very lot of supplements, about daily 50, so this may be somewhat expected. Nevertheless POIS is just too powerful to be treated properly and supplements keep loosing their efficacy as well.
2 days after the previous occasion I had another O. This time once again the sperm appeared to be more sticky. The spermatozoa appeared to be fewer in number, which was similar to the time I had “dead sperm”. Clearly a 2 days interval is just not enough for sperm to recover sufficiently. Regarding the proportions it was not particularly bad though. There were more slow or non-moving ones than before, but this was about equal to the moving ones. Pin-heads were also a little more abundant than previously, however not to a significant level. This time I also saw more with what may be considered excess residual cytoplasm and these were more often slow moving ones. I also saw many that may be considered normal.
4 days later I had another O. The ejaculate was quite normal, though once again sticky. Spermatozoa was more sparse and less dense as previously, though possibly a bit more abundant. Morphologically the different forms appeared to be in mostly equal proportions. Once again a saw a bit more with pin-like heads, but they were not too abundant. This time I think I saw more with what may be considered excess residual cytoplasm. Most of the time they were slow moving or non-motile, but with normal heads. I also saw some non-motile with really bent heads. Motile and non-motile ones were about in equal proportion.
Based on what I have observed so far, I can say that one really needs about a week to have a healthy full load of sperm. I guess this may be a normal thing and if anyone plans for a child, it may be better to do sex less frequently rather than every day. There may be something to the semen re-regeneration theory as POIS clearly gets better, when the gun is full with a healthier load, however the actual fact of shooting it seems to be more important than the quality of the semen. The ROS producing capability of immature spermatozoa may be involved, but I can’t verify this with my expertise or rather lack of it.
Someone on the prostatitis reddit site mentioned he saw a reaction for leukocytes when using a urine strip test on his precum. Some time ago I had been using similar strips on my urine, but even when it was really burning, it would never produce a similar reaction. This time I applied precum to the test strip, but there was no reaction nevertheless. Precum clearly induces my POIS though as I would frequently notice a sudden onset of bloodshot eyes (conjunctival hyperemia) when it appeared. This is clearly not due to masturbation itself as I could go for some time without precum and I would not perceive this exacerbation, but only when precum occurred. Of course if I actually ejaculated the symptom would be even worse. Afterwards I tested the strip on the ejaculate as well at least last time and it turned to a light purple (dark purple indicates a high value for urine), which probably means the presence of leukocytes, though its significance is not clear.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Physi on April 21, 2024, 05:14:21 PM

Quote from: Progecitor on February 10, 2024, 02:21:00 PM

The last few items of the individual test phase and some new products that I have tested afterwards.

Hepafix [In 1 capsule: 280 mg milk thistle extract (DER 25:1) with 126 mg silymarin, 280 mg artichoke extract (DER 6:1) with 14 mg cynarin; Rd:1]: I took it for two days with a dosage of 3 caps per day, but I did not have an O. On the first afternoon I masturbated and the sexual capability felt rather average. Interestingly though not too long after getting up in the first morning I had some strong spontaneous erections which may indicate a positive effect on libido, however nothing like this happened on the second morning. The weak chest inflammation I had earlier mostly resolved by the first morning (second day). On the second day I had to travel a long distance by car which evidently put a strain on my body as it happened similarly in the past. I don’t have motion sickness, but I still wasn’t feeling well by the time I had arrived home and also developed a headache just like in the past. I could see a little positive effect on the eyes on the first day, but not on the second day, so its effect was minimal. I could not experience an anti-depressive effect as with some other milk thistle products. I also had a bad rhinitis and the urine was burning as usual. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, but not particularly so and the ground milk thistle seeds were certainly better in this regard. Frankly it was a little disappointing as even the ground milk thistle seeds felt better, so I can only give this a weak score at the moment.
In the meantime I have almost consumed the whole box (about 100 caps) by taking daily one before going to bed. My verdict is that it doesn’t really cause any significant change in POIS unfortunately.

Capers: I ate a whole little jar with a drained net weight of 65 g in a day and had an O. The eyes were only lightly bloodshot, but I could not notice a clear improvement, however even after O they only got slightly worse, so I think it has a protective effect against deterioration at least. I had the O in the late evening which is not ideal, as the eyes felt really dry during masturbation. Regarding the sexual function the libido was possibly below average, while the control and erection felt rather average. Nevertheless I could go for a long time, so the endurance was evidently above average at least. The ejaculate was probably a little burning, but I missed to take notice of this, so it was not bad at least. The morning felt more like a chronic day, so capers clearly helped lowering the POIS bump, however I was still not particularly well. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. As a possible side-effect I felt a strong throbbing of the vein on the left side of the neck in the evening, but this may also indicate a blood vessel strengthening effect, so not necessarily detrimental. As an overall score I can evaluate this as weak-moderate, though it is clearly not rational to consume such a big amount on a daily basis.
Capers is a good source of methylglucosinolate, quercetin and rutin.

Powdered blond plantain husks (Plantago ovata) [Rd: max 5 teaspoon]: I consumed 4 teaspoon worth in a day without an O. When put in water it forms a gel very similar to guar gum. This one did not appear to be effective for eye symptoms. Gut issues were a little better. Otherwise I could not see any particular change, so it was a little disappointing. It is a possible source of acteoside, which I consider to be a good thing. It is also a common source of psyllium, that may be fermented into butyric acid in the gut. In the future I plan to use it as an additive when baking gluten free bread.

Pectin: I took 2.5 teaspoon worth in a day without an O. I had a little more work than usual and exercise intolerance was an issue. The eyes were somewhat more bloodshot than usual and I am not sure if the exercise intolerance alone could explain this. The quality of the stool was very strange that I would not even describe. Well, it was kind of hilarious and disturbing at the same time by encasing the motion of peristalsis. At least the burning pain felt a little reduced, so pectin may be not detrimental in a POIS manner. 

Arabian seven spice blend [powder; constituents: black pepper, caraway, red pepper (paprika), coriander, allspice, cinnamon, cardamom]: I consumed with 2 teaspoons (4 x half) in a day as a tea without an O. The eyes did not appear to change much during the day and they were mostly moderately bloodshot. Gut issues appeared a little better, but not much really and the burning pain was rather usual.
Certainly I had some positive experience with most of the constituents, however black pepper and red pepper may be suspected for negative effects as well due to their pungency.
Actually I have been using it some time for spicing the food with other stuff. As I would often experience an increase in the burning pain on the following days, I suspect it could have a detrimental effect as well. It also got expired in the meantime, which may also contribute to this problem. I think I will put this in the mixed category for now.

Couch grass 2 (Elymus repens (L.) Gould): Accidentally I bought another brand of this, so I tested it again. I made a hot tea by adding 1.5 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. Actually once again I had more work and it was kind of dirty. A lot of particles got into my eyes, which made one of them rather inflamed and painful and it could only partly recover by next morning. Nevertheless I don’t think it helped with eye symptoms. Disregarding the painful eye I masturbated some in the afternoon. The sexual function felt rather alright as it had been a bit above average. It felt like it had some anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues as well, but altogether it was not that significant. Currently I can only give it a weak score.

Garden cress sprout (Lepidium sativum) [grown for about a week]: I ate quite an amount of sprouts throughout a day and also consumed 1 teaspoon of its seeds before going to sleep. Both the sprouts and seed tasted a little bitter and pungent. I masturbated a little, but I still felt sexually tired from the previous day. The eyes did not seem to improve at all. The morning felt mostly as usual, though I was not particularly unwell. Gut issues were a little better, but I could not see a significant difference. It only gets a weak score.
Anecdotally it is considered an aphrodisiac as well. I guess some of its phyto-constituents could be similar to that of maca.

Walnut leaf tea: I had some positive experience with this in the past. Particularly it helped a few times when I had a bad stomachache, which is rather rare for me though. This time I made a hot tea by adding 2 tablespoon of herb to 1.2 liter of water and drank it in a day without an O. I think it had a little benefit on the eye issues as they were only lightly bloodshot throughout the day. At one time I experienced an increased tinnitus. In the evening I also masturbated some without an O and the sexual function appeared mostly normal. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better. The morning felt mostly usual though one of the eyes felt a little painful, but at least it was only normally bloodshot. I think walnut leaf tea is about weak-moderately helpful, but a higher dose could be problematic.

Dimenhydrinate (Daedalon) [50 mg per pill; Rd: max 8]: I tried this on two separate days by taking 3 pills each day and had an O on one of them. I developed a weak chest inflammation on both occasions, but in the first case it was probably due to the ejaculation and the second time I ate some processed cookies which evidently boosted POIS intensity. At both times I felt a reduction of rhinitis, but it was not complete and it was also paralleled with nasal congestion. I don’ think it did much about eye symptoms or depression. Regarding sexual function it was mostly normal, but it felt more difficult to reach an O than usual. Gut issues were somewhat better at least. I think it deserves a weak-moderate rating, but as for anti-histamines I would rather opt for cetirizine.
Some POISers had a really good experience with Dramamine which is the same drug, but in my case it helps only about as much as the other anti-histamines and in itself it does not account to much.

Colloidal silver: I consumed with 3 half coffeespoon in a day without an O. The product was not recommended for internal use, so I was rather unsure about the dosage. Even so this amount showed some benefit. I did not see much change during the day, though the symptoms felt only light. In the evening I developed a weak-moderate buttocks inflammation, similarly to what may happen with a zinc supplement. I also felt some sporadic prostatic pain during the evening. At least when I got up during the night I certainly felt better. I was more aware, thus less depressed, but my sleep quality also suffered possibly due to this. The rhinitis also felt reduced, though nasal congestion was an issue as most of the time. In the morning the libido felt improved. Gut issues were weakly better. It certainly seems like colloidal silver helps with POIS symptoms maybe to a moderate level, however at the same time side-effects and possible toxicity may not make its use worthwhile.

From this point every test was conducted while taking other stuff as well. This makes it really difficult to differentiate individual effects. At least I was taking the new supplements in a greater amount while also trying to avoid really good stuff, though hardly anything works really well anyway.

Tamsulosin (tamsulosin hydrochloride) [0.4 mg; Rd: 1]: I managed to get this as my father was prescribed to it, but refused to take it. I took daily one pill for 10 days and had an O on the 2nd and 4th days. I also had an O on the 11th day, but I had no more pills by then. I had no retrograde ejaculation on either of these occasions, though of course I do masturbate a bit excessively which may modulate outcome. POIS symptoms weren’t too bad, but they weren’t much better either, so tamsulosin does not appear to have a significant impact in general.

SAM-e (S-Adenosyl-L-methionine disulfate tosylate) [100 mg per capsule; Rd: 4 (2x2)]: Yet another supplement I had tested while treating myself. For this reason it is hard to decipher individual effects. At least I can say that it does not help with depression or bloodshot eyes. However it may actually help with gut issues about moderately. At least I am glad that it is not harmful, though I find it too expensive in view of cost-benefit. It also did not resolve my food sensitivities. After continuous use its efficacy also seemed to drop somewhat.

Turmeric powder (supplementary grade): I took this for several weeks as part of a powder tea blend, but unfortunately I can’t say I had noticed a particular benefit while on it.

Glutathione (NOW) [250 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I tested it while treating myself. Even so I could not really see any particular change on the numerous occasions I took it. I find this a bit disappointing really.

Glutathione complex [150 mg vitamin C, 100 mg glutathione, 100 mg NAC, 90 mg L-glutamine, 60 mg milk thistle, 45 mg L-glycine, 35 mg peppermint, 35 mg oregano powder, 6 mg pantothenic acid, 5 mg lutein, 50ug vitamin D3; Rd:1]: I took daily two on a few days, but once again it wasn’t of particular use. It was possibly a little more useful than the other product, but still not in a significant way and even so the role of glutathione can be questioned as the weak benefit could be due to the other components like NAC.

R-lipoic acid (sodium R-lipoic acid) [50 mg per capsule; Rd:1-2]: It has a noticeable benefit. While not outstanding it helps with gut issues and I think it even has a very slight anti-depressive effect, but this can’t be perceived every time. I guess it has a moderate power.

Oyster mushroom extract (Pleurotus ostreatus) [417 mg per capsule containing 125 mg beta-D-glucan; Rd:1]: Usually I took 2 caps on several days, but I could not see it making any significant difference. It probably helps a little, but not likely more than that. Afterwards I have been taking it for weeks (daily one), yet I could not see any significant benefit.
Pleuran is a beta-glucan derived from it, which should have a benefit in respiratory conditions.

King trumpet mushroom (Pleurotus eryngii) [powder]: Usually I took about 3 x 1/3 teaspoon worth per day put in hot water. Surprisingly it provides a noticeable benefit which once again appears about 6 hours after intake. I was feeling a little better and even got a little anti-depression out of it. The most significant effect was probably the reduction in the burning pain problem. It is interesting to note that one study finds that specifically Pleurotus eryngii contains compounds that show an anti-aromatase activity, which further confirms its key role in my case.

(generic) Propolis [165 mg per capsule containing 12.5 mg flavonoid; Rd:2]: Generally I have been taking 2-3 for several days. It also seems to have a positive effect on rhinitis, but this effect is less pronounced than of the Brazilian bee propolis trio. It may get a weaker moderate score.

Maca extract (yet another brand) (Lepidium meyenii) [400 mg of 5:1 extract per capsule; Rd:1]: As usual I took 3 in a day. This one had a really significant effect. It was kind of a pleasant surprise as I have been taking other maca products fairly regularly with only minimal benefit. This only shows that one really has to try maca extracts of different brands to see a benefit and even among them the efficacy can be very varied even when considering the proportion of the extract. As usual I would suddenly begin to feel kind of well about six hours after intake. It was even better when I took it along with hericium or king trumpet mushroom.

Lion's mane mushroom (Hericium erinaceus) [500 mg per capsule containing 100 mg polysaccharides; Rd:1]: I took 3 in a day, but even after the first one it was clearly beneficial. About 6 hours after intake I began to feel well. The next day I combined it with maca extract and saffron and I felt really well as a result. At least its anti-depressive effect lasted more than many of the other anti-depressant supplements, which makes this a prospective choice.

Monolaurin (Glyceryl Monolaurate [GML] derived from coconut) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took daily two capsules for several days. I don’t think it has any anti-depressive effect. However I believe it has a relatively good effect on rhinitis. It wasn’t as good as the brazilian propolis trio, but still provided a noticeable benefit. I think I also noticed some reduction in the burning pain of urination. On one of the days when I took the two caps closer in time I experienced some prostatic cramps that may have been due to monolaurin, though of course not necessarily as I had not experienced such on the following days. At the time I was also recovering from some infection, but I could not see an actual improvement in the slow recovery process. Thus monolaurin has some benefits, but I wouldn’t claim it to be very significant.

Shark liver oil complex [Ingredients in one liquid flow capsule: 100 mg alkoxy glycerols, 10 mg squalane, 10 mg garlic extract (0.2 mg allicin, 0.35 mg alliin), 200 ug vit A, 25 ug vit D, 3 mg vit E, 5 mg zinc; Rd:2]: I took daily two for more than a week. I can’t say I had noticed any considerable change though. Either the source is not sufficient to reach an adequate plasmalogen level or it has a lesser role in acute treatment and works more as a preventive, just like vitamin D. Actually I think this specific product could be a good addition to a stack based on its ingredient list.

Shark liver oil (from Iceland shark) [One softgel capsule contains 25 mg omega-3 fatty acids and 100 mg alkoxy glycerols; Rd:2]: I took daily one capsule. Once again there was nothing striking about it, but I decided to keep on taking it as part of a daily stack due to its supposed health benefits. I have been taking it for weeks now (daily one), but I couldn’t notice any significant improvement, so I guess it could be good for general health, but not for POIS specifically.

Oregano capsules [150 mg from 1500 mg oregano (10:1 extract) containing 70% carvacrol; Rd:1]: I have been taking it alongside other stuff for more than two months, but I couldn’t see it doing anything significant. It probably helps a little, but it is certainly less beneficial than the oregano oil essence, like I did not experience any muscle relief. At one time I took two caps at once, but the only thing that happened is that I developed a moderate headache a few hours later. Even so other symptoms did not change whatsoever. While I was taking daily one no such headache happened at least, so it appears fairy safe otherwise.

Apple cider vinegar [400 mg per capsule; Rd:2]: I took a whole box, but only one per day before going to sleep. I can’t say I have noticed any significant benefit, but in the past I have already had a positive experience with apple cider vinegar for sleep issues. I believe it makes a good combination with myricetin in this regard, so I will continue taking it as part of a night stack.

Turkesterone (Ajuga Turkestanica) [600 mg per capsule standardized to 10% turkesterone; Rd:2]: I took 3 in a day and had an O. This is another testosterone booster that I expected to have some benefit. It really did so as it clearly had some anti-depressive effect. It also had some positive effect on the eyes, though they still became a little worse after O. Of course it did not resolve POIS completely, but it is still a nice supplement nonetheless. As an ecdysteroid turkesterone’s effect rather resembles that of ecdysterone, though I can’t really say which is better at the moment. It clearly goes in the best category.

Fadogia agrestis [600 mg 10:1 stem extract per capsule; Rd: 1]: Yet another testosterone booster. Similarly to before I took 3 in a day and had an O. I could not experience an anti-depressive effect as with turkesterone and due to my disappointment and on a whim I took some other testosterone boosters (Catuaba+Diosgen (Wild Yam)+Rhaponticum tribulus+Giloy) along with it in the afternoon. Now in the evening I had some crazy good sexual performance as it felt like I have an unlimited endurance. After O I still felt slightly worse, but eye symptoms did not deteriorate as they usually do. I also noticed that I could move around easier both in the evening and morning, though I still had some muscle pain. Yet in the morning I had some usual POIS symptoms, so the protective effect could not hold that much. Of course at the moment I can’t really say if Fadogia is effective at all, but I suspect it is one of those testosterone boosters that need more time to set in as in the case of Cistanche.

Pure Royal Jelly: I took half a teaspoon 3 times in a day. Unfortunately it did not have any profound effect. It did not seem to provide an anti-depressive effect, though in the evening I may have felt a little less depressed. The eyes also did not seem to improve, though I masturbated some in the afternoon and they did not become particularly worse either. In the morning there was a clear reduction in the pain of urination, which may be the most significant effect, unless it was due to something else I took. The rhinitis was possibly slightly better, but propolis is certainly more useful in this regard. I used a higher amount than recommended, thus I would have expected some better results. I think it is a good idea to mix it in honey and use it that way and not as a singular supplement. Some time ago I also used up the royal ginseng capsules and I think that ginseng was the more active principle. I guess it deserves a weak-moderate rating when used alone.

Hericium powder: I took 3 half teaspoon worth in a day. It was a bit of a letdown. It had some anti-inflammatory effect, but it did not have an anti-depressive effect. I don’t think it was a quality issue as it came from the same producer as the king trumpet mushroom, however in this form the latter was more effective. Later I may try to encapsulate both and see if that makes a difference in their effectiveness. I guess if anyone wants to see if medicinal mushrooms could be useful, then they should really choose the extract types.

Suppository for prostatitis [ingredients: pumpkin seed, gotu kola, Boswellia oil extract, immortelle, Vitamin E, tea tree, hyaluronic acid, semisynthetic glycerides; Rd:1]: I have been applying it for more than a month now by using daily one. It is claimed to begin to work after about 1 month. For me it works right away, but only for a few hours and even so the resolution is only partial and mostly involves the local burning pain, however not other symptoms. I think its effect got a little better on the second week as the anus was not feeling as painful as usual when I applied it. Unfortunately I couldn’t see any further improvements henceforth even after one month. Whenever I have an O the burning pain would still punch through this protective barrier like molten lava. Nevertheless it is certainly a nice complimentary to oral supplements that would take a lot of time to reach the site of action and their effect would also dwindle on the way. As a further measure I have been applying some hemorrhoid creams mostly as a preventive measure. They can reduce the local irritation temporarily, but the severe itching would still punch through most of the time. I guess the Aurobin ointment is more powerful at least.

Niacin (vitamin B3) [10 mg; Rd: 1 (62.5%)]: I took 10, 20 and 30 mg along a day (60 mg altogether) and had an O. It was a nice surprise as even the first pill produced a noticeable benefit, which was about the same as of one pill of niacinamide (500 mg). The latter doses worked even better. However there was no flushing in any case or I just missed it. The timing also followed the 6-7 hour pattern. I felt the best when I woke up in the middle of the night, which was about 7-8 hours after the third dose. I was really aware with reduced depression and even the photophobia felt quite reduced. The muscles also felt like they had more energy. By morning the symptoms felt more like on a chronic day. I guess niacin deserves a place in the best category.

Cordyceps extract (Cordyceps sinensis) [1 pill contains 200 mg extract with 80 mg (40%) of polysaccharides; Rd: 2]: I took 4 pills in a day and had an O. It had some use, but it wasn’t powerful like the hericium capsules or niacin from the other days. It did not have a clear anti-depressive effect or only a slight one. The sexual function felt mostly average. The ejaculate was somewhat burning and POIS began a little worse this time. In the morning I wasn’t particularly unwell at least. I think this particular product deserves a weak-moderate rating.

Lactoferrin powder (bovine origin) [contains all 3 forms, but mostly apo lactoferrin; Rd: 2-4g or max 3x4g (12g)]: I took with 5 teaspoons (about 10 g) in a day. A few hours after intake I would feel slightly better, but this wasn’t that remarkable. Gut issues also appeared a little better, but not significantly. I guess similarly to other prebiotics lactoferrin acts more like a protective agent and should be taken more like a preventive, but it won’t acutely resolve the inflammation. Taking this much daily would be quite costly, so I will probably take it in a small amount just like the other prebiotics (inulin, beta glucan).

Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianum) [500 mg per capsule containing 400 mg of silymarin; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 caps in a day alongside other stuff. The eyes were quite alright in the early afternoon, probably due to a synergy with the morning stack, but later they were more like average. I think I felt a slight anti-depressive effect at its peak, but otherwise it wasn’t particularly effective. Gut issues were somewhat better, but it wasn’t terrific. I guess it deserves a moderate score.

Herbal Gallbladder care [1 capsule contains: 140 mg milk thistle (98 mg silymarin), 140 mg burdock, 140 mg dandelion, 300 ug vitamin B6; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day. I did not find it to be particularly useful. Maybe it has some positive effect on gut issues. At the same time my eyes were moderately bad throughout the day. It may have been something I ate, but vitamin B6 could be suspected as well. At least I did not have a gallbladder pain, which is often a problem, when taking many supplements together.

Lycopene [20 mg per softgel capsules; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules in a day. I clearly felt better right after the first capsule. It has some anti-depressive effect. In the afternoon I masturbated some and the symptoms were only slightly worse afterwards. The morning certainly felt better than on an average day. While lycopene does not solve every problem, it is still a really nice supplement. I can certainly put this in the best category.

Male Vascular Sexual Support/Black Ginger (Kaempferia parviflora) [100 mg rhizome extract std. to 5% 5,7-dimethoxyflavone; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules in a day and had an O. It wasn’t as good as lycopene, but it had some use. In the evening I masturbated and had an O. Strangely the sexual performance was kind of bad contrary to my expectations. I had a low libido and it was really hard too keep up the flag. It may have been sexual exhaustion from the previous day, but who knows. At least symptoms only became a little worse after the event. In the morning I felt much like on a usual day, so it must have had some preventive effect at least. Interestingly when I woke up in the morning the flag was erect, though this was nowhere as strong as with asafoetida. It may deserve a moderate-good rating, but its effect on sexual function has to be verified.

Catalase [1 capsule contains 5000 UI catalase enzyme and 400 mg Vitamin C; Rd:1]: I took 2 caps in a day and had an O. Even though I am kind of sure in the involvement of lipid peroxidation, still it doesn’t seem like either glutathione or catalase to be particularly useful. The sexual function was better than on the previous day, but still mostly average. At O the ejaculation was burning more than usual. Even so symptoms did not rapidly get worse afterwards and only a little worse by bedtime. As a possible side-effect I felt some tension in the head in the evening, which made me skip on a third capsule. The morning felt mostly average, but at least it was not particularly bad. There may have been some reduction in the pain of urination, but I am not sure. Thus catalase may have some protective power, but it doesn’t seem to be able to improve symptoms any significantly. It gets a weak score.

Betaine HCL [1 capsule contains: 650 mg betaine HCL and 150 mg pepsin; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day. It may work, but in a subdued way. I could not see a direct anti-depressive effect as depression was light and unchanged throughout the day. In the afternoon I developed a weak headache, but it was only weakly present by morning, so I am not sure if it is a side-effect. In the morning I also had a nasal congestion, which was clearly due to betain HCL. Rhinitis was probably reduced as a consequence, though it is hard to tell, as it wasn’t strong to begin with. I don’t think it improved gut issues particularly much, but it may have some benefit. I have already tried a digestive enzyme complex several years ago and it seemed to help with food coma that often exacerbates baseline depression. Lactase enzyme similarly helped in conjunction with milk consumption, so I guess betaine with pepsin could be used for a similar purpose to take some burden off the body.

Thyme and propolis [1 capsule contains 130 mg thyme leaf, 130 mg propolis, 80 mg vitamin C, 40 mg shiitake mushroom; Rd:1]: I took 3 caps in a day. It probably helps a little, but I couldn’t see a significant improvement. In the morning POIS was a little worse actually, but I suspect it was due to something I ate. Though it could be several things I suspect the brazil nuts I ate, that also tasted a little rancid.

Quercetin Plus [1 capsule contains 400 mg quercetin, 100 mg bromelain, 25 mg zinc; Rd:2]: I took 3 caps in a day. Unfortunately I could not see much benefit. It did not have any anti-depressive activity and eye issues didn’t seem better either. Interestingly when I woke up in the morning I couldn’t hear the tinnitus, though after getting up it returned, but this may indicate that quercetin could be useful for this condition long-term. In the morning rhinitis also appeared a little better, though I did not have a nasal congestion. Gut issue were also a little better, though not significantly. While its acute effect is certainly not remarkable quercetin could act in a subdued way that may be beneficial long-term.

Ginseng complex for man [500 mg per capsule containing 70 mg panax ginseng, 250 mg astragalus, 80 mg angelica root; Rd:4]: I had a bit more work than usual and accordingly developed bad bloodshot eyes and muscle pain. However by the time I went home the eyes seemed and felt noticeably better. In the afternoon I took 2 caps at once and early evening I even felt some anti-depression besides feeling a little better overall. When I woke up during the night I felt quite alright, though I couldn’t fall asleep again due to dry eyes, which is a frequent problem. The morning was clearly a bit better than usual and even the muscle fatigue and burning urine condition appeared a little improved. My libido also felt improved in the morning. Its overall efficacy was a little bellow the lycopene supplement that I had tried recently, but still quite nice nevertheless. It goes into the good category.

Myo-inositol [powder; Rd: 2g]: I took 5g (2-1-2g) in a day. I forgot to take my morning stack, but even so it clearly improved bloodshot eyes by the end of work. However as a downside I also developed a bit painful cramping flatulence by this time. By evening this mostly resolved. In the morning I had a slight cramping once again. The eyes were relatively alright, but photophobia persisted. When I woke up in the morning I felt slightly better, but I couldn’t notice any anti-depressive effect otherwise. There wasn’t anything else particularly noteworthy. I think it has about a moderate effect, but the ginseng complex from the other day was clearly better. I also wouldn’t take more than 1g at once as it can clearly lead to cramping trouble.

Loperamide (loperamide hydrochloride) [2 mg per pill; Rd: 1-6 (max: eight)]: I took 4 pills separately in a day and had an O. It does not seem to have an anti-depressive effect, however in the early afternoon I could see some improvement in eye bloodshotness and it had an anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. Of course this means increased flatulence, but at least it was devoid of cramping unlike myo-inositol. Instead it caused some loud bowel grumbles about 2-3 hours after intake as an inconvenience. The anti-inflammatory effect seemed to peak about 5-6 hours after consumption. I masturbated in two sessions. After the first I had a little precum and there was an increase in eye problems, but they receded by evening. In the evening I had an actual O. I had a good erection, but control was average and had to be careful not to come early. The ejaculate was minimally burning if at all, however interestingly it was smellier than usual or at least it had a strong scent, which is usually less perceptible otherwise. I suspect this indicates some improvement, though I may be wrong about it. After O the eyes got a little worse again, but improved a little once again by the time I was going to bed. Interestingly I also felt like I could move around a little easier in the evening, thus it may have some benefit on muscle fatigue. Unfortunately in the morning the eyes were quite bloodshot and photophobic and I felt just as bad as I would expect on an acute POIS day. In the morning the stool was harder than usual, but not especially so and the burning pain felt rather usual, thus without significant change either way. Given everything it may have a moderate benefit, but constipation is usual bad for me due to toxic accumulation, so I will probably not use it on a daily basis.
By the way I ate about 10 pieces of Physalis in the morning and about two hours later the eye condition certainly improved. It didn’t do much else, but at least it shows that physalis has some clear benefit.

Hi Progecitor,

The research you are doing is awesome. I see you have tried physalis berries.

I have experimented with this berries a lot, trying different time frames and amounts.

The thing is the effect is barely noticeable, except if I use them in the exact right way, that I described in a post.
If they are used correctly, they prevent POIS from happening for me (it works only before orgasm). But if I miss the time frame, they have 0 effect.
In my opinion, that is why some people try them and think they are useless.

Some people tried them and have answered my post, saying that it worked 100% preventing POIS for them too.

Here is the link : https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3306.0

I think it's worth a try  ;)

Keep me posted

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Warrior on April 21, 2024, 10:14:58 PM

Quote from: Progecitor

Maca extract (yet another brand) (Lepidium meyenii) [400 mg of 5:1 extract per capsule; Rd:1]: As usual I took 3 in a day. This one had a really significant effect. It was kind of a pleasant surprise as I have been taking other maca products fairly regularly with only minimal benefit. This only shows that one really has to try maca extracts of different brands to see a benefit and even among them the efficacy can be very varied even when considering the proportion of the extract. As usual I would suddenly begin to feel kind of well about six hours after intake. It was even better when I took it along with hericium or king trumpet mushroom.

Nice list! I plan on really exploring all the different medicinal herbs, adaptogens, apitherapy, medicinal shrooms, etc. So much interesting stuff to explore.

I'm planning on giving Maca a try soon. It arrives tomorrow actually!

I've been reading up on it and theres actually a few things you need to make sure of when choosing Maca for maximum therpaeutic benefit.

- Maca must be sundried or cooked for therapeutic benefits. It cannot be raw (and can actually be dangerous if you consume it raw)
- Black maca is generally known as the most potent type of Maca, but theres actually yellow and red maca that can all have unique therapeutic abilities depending on what ailments you are trying to fix
- A good site for learning more is https://themacaexperts.com/
- I didn't realise, but Maca is actually incredibly therapeutic and has a very rich history of use in Peruvian culture. Quality is especially important when it comes to Maca
- You can mix different Maca colours designed for unique therapeutic results
- I'm going to try this 'Maca for Men' which is a special ratio mix of black, red, and yellow maca. I'm also going to take it combination with black maca. Brand I'm buying from is Seleno Health here in Aus (which is a parent company to themacaexperts)

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on August 18, 2024, 05:21:25 AM

Recently some bug stung my left shin while I was riding the bicycle. Unfortunately I couldn't see what it was due to the jeans, but it was most probably a wasp that got under the cover accidentally. Interestingly following this in just half an hour I developed a right-sided chest inflammation that resembled the one I often get after POIS onset. Other POIS symptoms like bloodshot eyes did not turn particularly worse though. The flare resolved in about 3 days, which is also how it usually happens. This one felt to be a deeper one more towards the lung, which is the less frequent type as usually it is more connected to the inflamed breast lymph nodes. The site of the "bite" on the leg was less inflamed and certainly less painful compared to the chest inflammation where taking a deep breath would also hurt. I took cetirizine, ambroxol and a lot of other things, but they did not help appreciably. Thus even if I use a lot of anti-inflammatory supplements this symptom won't get better overnight and its healing needs some time. This makes me believe that the cause is tissue injury by excessive inflammation.
MCAS and other inflammatory components could be suspected to play some role in its pathology.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9615201/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/wasp-venom

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on August 29, 2024, 10:56:01 PM

Quote from: Progecitor on August 18, 2024, 05:21:25 AM

Recently some bug stung my left shin while I was riding the bicycle. Unfortunately I couldn't see what it was due to the jeans, but it was most probably a wasp that got under the cover accidentally. Interestingly following this in just half an hour I developed a right-sided chest inflammation that resembled the one I often get after POIS onset. Other POIS symptoms like bloodshot eyes did not turn particularly worse though. The flare resolved in about 3 days, which is also how it usually happens. This one felt to be a deeper one more towards the lung, which is the less frequent type as usually it is more connected to the inflamed breast lymph nodes. The site of the "bite" on the leg was less inflamed and certainly less painful compared to the chest inflammation where taking a deep breath would also hurt. I took cetirizine, ambroxol and a lot of other things, but they did not help appreciably. Thus even if I use a lot of anti-inflammatory supplements this symptom won't get better overnight and its healing needs some time. This makes me believe that the cause is tissue injury by excessive inflammation.
MCAS and other inflammatory components could be suspected to play some role in its pathology.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9615201/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/wasp-venom

By the way the wasp I mentioned earlier must have been a greater one or an actual hornet as another smaller wasp stung me recently and the wound was hardly visible compared to the previous time. The site (left hand) was itchy for a few days, but no systemic reaction occurred unlike before. I guess this means that the systemic reaction must have been only due to the volume of the wasp venom itself as I don’t appear to be particularly allergic to wasp stings otherwise.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on October 03, 2024, 04:11:05 PM

My current experience

I have been treating myself for over a year now, but to my disappointment I haven’t made any significant progress to cure myself. The most fundamental statement I can make about POIS is that it is just too damn powerful. On one hand I find that practically every supplement is useful against POIS, on the other hand practically everything stops working or drops in efficacy after a short while. This is most usually around 1 or 2 days and sometimes a bit more, however afterwards they don’t provide the noticeable benefit that they had done initially. At least in some cases drug resistance/tolerance disappeared after an extended amount of time (several months) and once again there was a perceptible benefit for one or two days. I have to emphasize that I develop a tolerance not only to herbal remedies and pharmaceuticals, but to vitamins and minerals as well. Disregarding the tolerance issues at least the effective supplements outline the nature of the underlying inflammatory condition.

The time frame when supplements are effective is also rather inconvenient. For some reason 6.5 hours seems to be the magic number following consumption, when mostly everything shows its peak benefit. Most often there is an increase in flatulence at this time, which is clearly associated to the anti-inflammatory effect. Most interestingly as drug resistance develops not only the anti-inflammatory effect gets weaker, but the flatulence as well even if it was strong before. This peak is also when I most often get a transient anti-depressive effect. Transient means that I experience a sudden clarity and my sight changes from fuzzy to focused that lasts a few minutes, then half an hour passes and I feel just alright and then an hour or two passes and I realize that I am back in the mind-fog prison. Needless to say this makes it practically impossible to get any benefit that would last throughout the day. I take the supplements in the morning, mid afternoon and late evening before bedtime. Thus during work I would not get any benefit and only begin to feel a little better by the time I was going home, however due to work induced PEM the benefit would be often reduced. Physical fatigue and pain is usually an issue in the early afternoon and I am prone to food coma around this time. By the time the afternoon dose would be working I usually started to feel mentally fatigued and tired, which once again blunts the benefit, though at least muscle pain is usually reduced by this time and I can sometimes do exercises. Then during the night I would sometimes wake up feeling quite well from the evening dose, but after sleeping a few more hours I would more likely wake up feeling messed up as usual indicating the end of the effectiveness window.

The second principal rule is that negative effects are always stronger than positive ones. Of course fatigue is the main contributor. I find that when I don’t sleep enough my general condition is worse. Unfortunately due to POIS I am rather slow and enervated in practically everything I do and I never get ahead with anything. For this reason usually I try to save time on sleeping which is probably not a good idea, thus I only sleep about 7 hours daily, which is clearly inadequate with such a disease. I have to say that when I am tired practically nothing works and even the best supplements only have transient and reduced effects. This is also true when eating POIS mimetics as they mess up my digestion and or eyes and the damage is less repairable. Daily working and/or training and ensuing muscle pain and/or fever also turns POIS intensity up a notch. Of course sexual activity is the “best” inducer, but I have plenty of POIS symptoms even without that most of the time.

Another important finding after a year of treatment is that things that did not show promise in the first few days would not start magically working even after weeks of use. To the contrary it is more of a problem that things that worked well for the first time would usually lose some of their efficacy with continued use making their benefit less perceptible. Combining stuff also does not lead to synergies and not even linear additions. It feels more like a partial addition, which may not necessarily result in a significant difference. And yet the occasions I felt the best were when I started several supplements together, that I knew would be quite useful, however they would still lose their efficacy nonetheless.

In the first half year I mostly took about 30 supplements per day, but in the second half I upped it to about 50, though sometimes I take even more than this if I count everything. Of course the supplement term mostly means boxed and encapsulated herbal medicines, but it also includes the morning smoothies, which usually consist of about 10 powdered stuff and the mixed herbal teas that usually consist of about 10 herbs and I mainly drink them in the afternoon and evening. Normally I put about half to one teaspoon of each powder into the smoothie. Usually I also add about 5 spices to the main meal, disregarding the taste. Initially I only took one of each supplement a day even if the recommended dose was higher due to the high number of combinations. Whenever I tested something new I was using a higher dose, so that any possible benefit would shine through. Lately though I would more likely to take recommended doses to see if it was worth buying again or a complete waste of money as it usually turns out.

Of course I ran into side-effects as well. Earlier gallbladder pain was quite common and I even suspended herbal teas for a time as that was the most likely cause. A higher dose of medicinal mushrooms also did that and I suspect liver toxicity behind this. Lowering the amount of supplements would usually solve this in a day or two, but even when the pain was stronger it would still resolve in 3-4 days without any remaining problem. I could even restart herbal teas after a while and with careful selection I had no such issues lately despite taking double the number of supplements than before. I also couldn’t see the eyes getting any yellower at any times, though this clearly indicates some toxic pressure on the liver. Interestingly my POIS symptoms are not in correlation as I would usually feel just as usual even when the pain was high and lowering the number of supplements would actually allow POIS to creep back to a heightened state. Of note the resolution pattern is similar to the chest inflammation and it also resembles in that the pain is only dull when at rest, however any kind of movement, especially when leaning forward would cause a sharp pain. Thus this may indicate some internal injury. Another problem is headache development, but only a few supplements do this (e.g. chinese skullcap, alfalfa, etc.) and I realized that lowering doses would reduce the risk of such happening and even if not a pain killer would reliably help. A more common problem is bloodshot eyes. This is quite troublesome as the same supplement may help with other symptoms though. Nevertheless a supplement with such a POIS mimetic effect is a no go for me even if it proved useful for other POISers (e.g. black cumin oil, folic acid). Some miscellaneous side effects like tinnitus often disappeared with continued use (e.g. phosphatidylserine, astaxanthin, noni), but their effectiveness also diminished at the same time. I had rather bad lower back pains, that are not part of my POIS and they were clearly caused by lion’s mane mushroom and possibly by gotu kola. Lately I also had some rather bad epigastrial cramps even when taking supplements that seemed safe before. Actually I realized that it must have been due to a higher dose of NAC, but a daily dose of 500 mg does not seem to hurt at all. Of course due to the high number of supplements I can never be sure if there is some progressive damage in the background, but currently I feel just fine if not considering POIS.

The measure/scale of treatability:

The first is the most easily treated while the last is the most difficult one. I can treat 1-3 relatively well, while 4-5 only moderately and 6-7 only barely, thus objectively I would say that the POIS reduction is about 40 percent with such an intense treatment, though subjectively I would more likely to say 10 or 20 percent given how I feel most of the time. As I mentioned before when starting something new with a greater effectiveness I may get a 50-60 percent resolution, but after a day or two I would plummet back to 10-20 percentile due to developing tolerance.

1. headache
2. chest inflammation (pleural effusion?)
3. rhinitis, urinary burning
4. bloodshot eyes (conjunctival hyperemia)
5. anal burning and itching
6. muscle pain and joint crackling (myalgia and osteoarthritis)
7. depression and photophobia (encephalitis)

1. The headache was most of an issue in my earlier POIS years and less so in the past years. I think this problem mostly occurred when I had a bad POIS and also ate POIS mimetics at the same time. Figuring out some of the worst mimetics and avoiding them was an important step. Always getting enough fresh air is also a key measure. Some pain killers like Quarelin (practically Algopyrin + No-Spa) can also help a lot with this issue. Daily bowel movements to avoid systemic LPO trapping and accumulation is also crucial in this regard.

2. Reducing the frequency and intensity of the chest inflammations is one of the best result I got by treating myself. A few years ago I regularly had such painful episodes that I thought I would die. Now this hardly ever happens or even if it does the pain is usually only weak or moderate and may last only a few hours and not for days as it did before. Actually recently I had a 3 days moderate episode which was unusual as it happened in the chronic phase. My mother had a bad infection at the same time as she was coughing like crazy, thus I suspect this occurrence may have been due to that even if no other infection-like symptoms had developed in my case. Another peculiar one occurred when a hornet stung me, which is rather indicative of the underlying mechanism.

3. These problems are less bothersome and more like an inconvenience, and maybe that is the reason that even a partial treatment feels like a result. Interestingly treating rhinitis often leads to partial nasal congestion, which may be inconvenient, but at least the inflammation is reduced. Brazilian propolis and monolaurin were some of the better treatments for this issue. The burning pain of urination clearly correlates to muscle pain, as at the end of work I would always have increased muscle pain and a more intensely burning urine at the same time. Then sitting for a few hours after work would usually reduce both the muscle pain and urinary burning to a weak-moderate level. The urgency of urination must be due to the accumulation of specific LPOs. Even at a small volume of urine the irritation makes it a necessity to void or otherwise a discomforting feeling persists. Unfortunately routine lab tests are unable to show anything about this. The best treatment for this issue is corn silk tea. Unfortunately it does not do much else and the effect is temporary like for practically everything, but the impact is undeniable. I just have to wonder why is it not more popular in the prostatitis group when it has such an evident benefit. Another supplement that has a great impact on urinary issues is pterostilbene. It also reduces the burning pain to a lesser degree, but what is really peculiar that it can greatly increase the force of urination. In the past decade I got used to sitting while peeing as the stream is weak and intermittent, however when taking pterostilbene I can often do it while standing. The only downside is that when the urge comes I have to do it very soon as otherwise I would develop a really bad bladder cramping. I found that the one from Swanson was particularly effective, while I bought a cheaper one as well, which had a way reduced effect, but the cramping was also not an issue with that one.

4. Bloodshot eyes are an ever present issue. I have found quite a lot of supplements for this issue and even so this does not mean that I can actually treat it well. The problem is that they mostly provide the benefit around the peak hour which takes a lot of time to wait for and then the effect is rather temporary as well. Additionally when I am tired and the POIS force is strong the benefit becomes very transient and barely perceptible if at all. The same is true for POIS onset after an O. I can evidently ameliorate the symptom with well timed supplements, however the initiation is so powerful that it just can’t be prevented completely. Drinking coffee was like shoveling coal onto the fire in this regard and I berate myself for doing so for about 20 years. For a year I only drank filtered coffee which clearly provided a step down compared to how it had been before and even so it had a less perceptible negative effect and a more perceptible one when drinking a little more even if it was filtered. Thus a few months ago (about 5) I completely stopped drinking coffee. Of course this did not make POIS much tolerable, but at least took out another co-inducer from the equation.
A closely associated problem is dry and straining eyes. This tends to be a night issue for me that almost always starts around 9 p.m. possibly as another step on the fatigue ladder, though it may be present during the day as well. Though mostly an annoyance it can certainly prevent sleeping back during the night. Eye drops may temporarily (a few minutes) help with dry eyes and have a little stabilizing effect generally though it can’t prevent or reverse the emergence of bloodshot eyes.
I have already collected some of the supplements that were useful for bloodshot eyes in a separate post, so I won’t repeat them here.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg46077#msg46077
There are also some that I have not mentioned before like Rhodiola, elderberry, rutin or high dose vitamin D, and so I will do a revision later. Unfortunately developing drug resistance is a serious issue and after a few days even combinations of them have only a little benefit, which is only enough to save me from the worst of POIS.

5. This symptom is even more stubborn than the previous one and it is at the core of my disease. The reason evidently being that it is the epicenter of the inflammation. It is interesting to see that so many people have this issue in the prostatitis group along with the burning urination and even so they don’t identify with POIS itself. I have already figured out that the burning pain is due to the excessive amount of lipid peroxides (LPO) present at the site. The difference is probably that in our case the ROS generation is more connected to the sexual activity. I also believe that due to this our disease shows a much more exaggerated fluctuation compared to baseline inflammation. The people in the prostatitis group mostly experience localized symptoms, while in our case after an O event the inflammation is so exorbitant that we develop systemic symptoms due to LPO OVERsaturation and OVERspill. The prefix of OVER really just feels a mild term to describe the actual truth behind this statement. Nevertheless the supplements that helped with this issue were mostly strong antioxidants and testosterone boosters. To name some: raw black cumin, thyme, cat’s claw, passion flower, R-lipoic acid, Q10, boron, ginger tea, white horehound tea, sage tea, dandelion root, grape seed, grapefruit seed, CBD oil, beta-sitosterol etc. Once again drug resistance is a serious issue as practically everything gets progressively less beneficial even if taken in an increased amount.
I have been on a low gluten diet for about 9 months. This means that I had stopped buying any kind of bread or buns and rolls in bakeries and instead bake them myself using gluten free flour such as rice and corn flour. I often add healthy ingredients as well. For example Goji berries are a constant addition, but I often added things like milk thistle seed, black sesame seeds, black cumin, chia seeds, linseed, inulin, turmeric, moringa, parsley and a variety of other spices, though it would often kill the yeast if I added too many things resulting in a solid spicy mass rather than any kind of bread, so I am less liberal these days. Actually in the last few weeks I gave up on this and returned to buying bread. However I only buy a kind of vitality bread made from spelt part rye and regular flour and I think it is actually better for POIS than the homemade bread I make. I suspect that the reduction of sugar is more important than the reduction of gluten.
I also cut back on milk especially after quitting coffee. I realize I can get pretty bad food comas due to it, so I plan to reduce milk consumption even more. Instead I try to eat more yogurt and kefir.
I still eat my mother’s home cooking which often contains gluten and other troublesome ingredients. Unfortunately consuming any POIS mimetics is a serious detriment and can mostly nullify any benefit provided by otherwise good supplements.

6. muscle pain and joint crackling
Muscle pain is a persistent issue. I get up with muscle pain then go to work only for it to get progressively worse. Fortunately most of the time I only do 4-6 hours of light-moderate physical activity which results in moderate muscle pain and moderately burning urine by the time I get home. However there are a fewer days when I have to work 8-10 or rarely even more hours. After such days I usually get home with a strong muscle pain and a really painful burning urine as well. The correlation between the muscle pain and the burning urine is undeniable and this is further reinforced by the fact that after sitting a few hours following work not only the muscle pain gets less intense, but at the same time the burning intensity of the urine in perfect parallel. Actually I believe this could be a major distinction from ME/CFS as I couldn’t see anyone particularly mentioning this problem on their sites. The bloodshot eyes are also in perfect “harmony” to the two previous symptoms. The more intense the work was the more brutal eye symptoms I would develop. Lasting muscle pain or fever (days) after a workout would also mess up my eyes majorly even if I was theoretically out of a POIS episode and otherwise not doing anything that particular day. My legs are more involved in the muscle pain, but the arms also hurt when lifting some weight or doing other physical activity. Sometimes just washing my teeth becomes a toil due to pain in the upper arm. Otherwise I only feel a dull pain when at rest.

The joint pain and crackling mostly involves the knees and it feels like an extension of the muscle pain. The worse muscle pain was the more issues I would have with the knees. Fortunately during work I don’t really notice the knee problems and I can mostly overcome the leg pain with willpower. However the knee problem is very apparent when I sit down to rest at home and when I try to stand up I am immediately faced with this unpleasant pain and crackling. After a longer work day the feet also tends to crackle a lot. On the rare occasion the muscle pain improved there was a clear reduction in knee pain as well and it felt much more flexible. While joint support supplements are clearly beneficial, they can’t really do anything as long as I can’t somehow solve the muscle pain problem. A lot of sleeping can usually help with muscle pain, though there are times when I wake up with more pain than I went to bed with. This maybe due to the hindered excretion of LPOs as I can’t urinate while sleeping unless I wake up due to the urge, but this itself indicates that the problem is quite bad by that time. This problem is also elevated by some POIS mimetics I ate the day before and of course it is very evident at POIS onset as well. I may have a really smooth, relaxed feeling in the muscles on the day of an O, but either several hours later or as more often happens when getting out of the bed in the morning I am suddenly faced with an increased, mostly moderate degree of pain. Of course starting work in such a condition is a really bad omen for the afternoon.
There were only a few supplements that provided a very noticeable improvement in this regard and even so they only worked like an hour and then drug tolerance or tachyphylaxis happened. The following are a few examples: rutin, oregano oil essence, ganoderma, niacin, saffron, lungwort tea, ecdysterone, possibly indole-3-carbinol

7. depression and photophobia
These two are practically the most stubborn ones. I am rather sure that both are a sign of an ongoing encephalitis. While photophobia somewhat correlates with bloodshot eyes, it has to be noted that the correlation between depression and photophobia is even stronger. On the rare chance I manage to improve depression photophobia also tends to improve. Both of these are the worst in the morning and their intensity tends to determine my whole day afterwards. While depression is not the only cognitive symptom, its extent clearly determines the others. The more depressed I am the more my thought process falters. At times I feel like I completely stopped thinking or at least my thoughts get very basic, monotonic and uncreative. I can’t recall memories or words in the fuzzy jumble. When paired with PEM after a harder work day the brain fog is mixed with a nauseating vertigo, which makes me unable to do any focused or coherent activity and all my free time is thrown to the trash.
I don’t believe the brain to be the primary site for the inflammation. It is more likely that LPOs constantly pass through the BBB and cause an extended, secondary inflammation.

Antidepressants: some exercises can help that do not lead to muscle fever, saffron, lavender, ecdysterone, damiana, guggul, L-dopa, longjack, drotaverine, licorice, burdock, guduchi, elderberry, vinpocetine, niacin, Mg-citrate, phosphatidylserine, fennel, holy basil, lycopene and maybe some others to a lesser extent. Once again after one or two occasions these also loose their edge and hardly work afterwards, thus I can’t get any constant benefits, not to mention the narrow interval of the peak benefit.
Photophobia: aspirin, resveratrol, the previous anti-depressants, but nothing works consistently.

8. secret symptom
No matter how good I have ever felt, this symptom always remained. It was clearly reduced when all other symptoms were reduced as well, however it had never ceded completely and it always remained to torture me emotionally and remind me of the futility of my battle. I could write a book about what this symptom entails, but revealing it would be a psychological disaster. I also can’t believe that no one else had realized this, but maybe I am just crazier than the rest of the world.

Miscellaneous:

- sleep issues: Though sleeping issues are not a major part of my POIS, if anyone has such problems should definitely try myricetin. This proved to be far better than any other sleep aids, such as melatonin, valeriana or any kind of sleep aid complexes. Myricetin makes it possible to sleep through most nights without waking up in the middle and then not being able to sleep back. An otherwise healthy friend of mine also had irresolvable sleeping issues, though she had tried many things. Nevertheless she also praised myricetin after trying it, thus this effect is not POIS specific.
I also realized that most of my sleeping issues originate from dry eyes that can disturb relaxation and thus sleeping. Interestingly the dry eye problem appears to be a night issue for me as it usually begins to become really bad around 9 p.m., when I am also beginning to get tired. Unfortunately washing only provides a temporary relief as in a few minutes they would be dry again. Recently I have begun experimenting with eye drops and they also help only temporary, but still slightly better than simply washing the eyes, so I see at least some worth in them.

- dopamine agonists: Generally I had a positive experience with dopamine agonists, though they could not achieve a major breakthrough. At least I could not experience any particular detrimental effects either. Unfortunately both catuaba and phenylalanine lost its initially evident anti-depressive effect, and yet I have been taking them regularly. I haven’t yet tried higher doses though. L-dopa proved to be fairly reliable anti-depressant especially when I took it with a bunch other stuff. I bought a new L-tyrozine supplement, but I could not perceive an anti-depressive effect while on it. I have just begun to take bupropion in the last few days, but so far I couldn’t see it making any difference.

- PDE4 inhibitors: I tried to combine different PDE4 inhibitors to see the outcome. I tested a combo of Tongkat ali, drotaverine and Forskolin and they certainly provided a nice relief, though far from complete. Unfortunately again drug tolerance once again dulled the overall effect. By the way the individual anti-depressive effect was greatest for tongkat ali, then drotaverine, while the cAMP booster forskolin only had a mild anti-depressive effect.

- NO boosters: One of my best experience was with NO boosters. They can really nicely increase sexual performance, especially when combined with testosterone boosters. This makes it possible to last a lot longer while edging and provides exceptional control, which makes it easier to abort masturbation when it would come to the culmination. This allowed me to confirm the observation that POIS is indeed caused by the release of the seminal fluid and not due to the physical aspects of sexual activity. I can claim this with great certainty as there were numerous occasions when I did lengthy edgings with NO boosters. I would often go for about an hour without seeing any emerging problems, but some precum would come out sooner or later and exactly then my eyes would get bloodshot right away. I would also get partial symptoms as well like an increased muscle pain the next day. Of course if I later had a full ejaculation the symptoms would manifest to their full extent. This also makes me believe that dry or retrograde ejaculations could also help in my case even if I have not managed to achieve anything like that so far. I also suspect that due to the two layered nature of my POIS, this would only help the autoimmunity part and acute POIS and not with the chronic level of symptoms that are maintained by senescence (SASP).
NO boosters: catuaba, thiamine nitrate, kola nut, guarana, asafoetida, muira puama, ginger.

- bitter stuff: Generally I had some positive experience with bitter stuff (e.g. artichoke, andrographis, neem, etc). However I often find it difficult to consume them, especially in a daily manner. If I mix them in a smoothie, it makes the whole thing hardly consumable. Andrographis was especially bad, as I simply couldn’t swallow it without making grimaces and the help it provided was moderate at best, so I am not altogether sure if it is worth the hassle. Besides andrographis the other stuff that I found to be just as impossible to consume was oregano essential oil. Even one drop is so strong that it is crazy. It is rather unfortunate that this was practically the only form that was actually useful.

- amalgam fillings: At the start of the year I had all three of my amalgam tooth fillings replaced. So far this did not cause any change. It is true though that I got them in my early POIS years around the time I noticed the one week periods. I believe I had POIS by then, but it may be possible that the amalgam fillings contributed to its worsening.

- cleanliness: Showering or bathing after an O does not stop POIS, but certainly helps to blunt it a little. In my case the temperature of the water does not seem to alter much. Nowadays I shower practically every day. In the past there were times when I had gone without for 2 or 3 days. At 3 days I have often noticed that my POIS (e.g. bloodshot eyes and depression) was much worse and taking a bath would make me feel much better. Despite all of this showering often makes my eyes more bloodshot, especially in the evenings. What is really bad though when I do it after a long day of work when PEM is high. In such cases my eyes are very labile and even pure water can turn it very bloodshot, extremely tired and painful that usually needs a full sleep before they recover to a usual state.

- latex: On some occasions I used a condom to masturbate and it definitely helped increasing the time I spent with edging as it reduced the sensation of the stimulation. I could also not experience any problem with the latex itself. Symptoms only appeared after precum or ejaculation as usual and no local reaction at all. Thus while POIS is an atopic condition, it does not necessarily imply allergy to everything.

For me the two leading theories about the cause of POIS are autoimmunity and senescence. At first I couldn’t decide, which is the more likely one, but after thinking about it at length I realized that both must be true. It must have begun with autoimmunity in the beginning when the POIS cycles were more evident and I had clear resolutions after the one week periods. However at some point in time the symptoms became chronic and ever lasting, which must be caused by SASP. I can only speculate when this may have happened, but one possibility is that this transformation was partly behind the increase of POIS strength at the age of 17 about two decades ago. Nowadays it is a 2 layered disease that involves the same inflammatory pathway, which is also the reason it feels the same and is affected by the same factors and medications. The most likely cause of autoimmunity is erroneous viral pattern recognition that misidentifies seminal dsRNA as viral particles, thus initiating the body’s inflammatory defense mechanism. At the same time exhausted senescent cells also pump out a lot of ROS, leading to robust lipid peroxidation. The pure abundance of LPOs and their metabolic products cause a state of sepsis, which manifest as POIS symptoms. By nature this inflammatory mechanism is normally protective, thus the body has a great tolerance against it and this must be the only reason that POIS is not outright lethal and just makes us very ill.

At this point I am not even sure if a cure is possible at all. I suspect I would need to prohibit the inflammation in a sustained manner if I hoped for one. So far I could not achieve that and a partial treatment only seems to dull the symptoms, but the inflammation lingers on. I would need to abstain more if I wanted to go towards this goal, but I tend to fail in this. The most I did last year were 3 and 4 weeks, however even at 4 weeks I felt generally unwell. At least I feel a step down after a week, but the difference isn’t that big.
Finding a sufficient treatment may take years, but I am rather dismayed that a last chance to have a family is slipping away right now. Nevertheless there is no other choice than the patient one, even if life passes by.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on November 10, 2024, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: Hopeoneday on February 26, 2024, 06:52:33 PM

A microscope? Ideas on pois blod examing? https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4188.msg44773#msg44773


Pinhead sperm, a variation of the small-head sperm, is when the head appears as a pin with minimal to no paternal DNA content. The presence of pinhead sperm may point to a diabetic condition.

Sperm Morphology | Loma Linda University Center for Fertility ...

Thanks for this idea even if it is a bit late!
I gave up on microscopy some time ago as it was kind of a hassle and I couldn’t see the point after several occasions. There were some pin heads, but most of the time the majority seemed to have normal heads, thus the significance of these observations is questionable. An association to diabetes is probably an association to metabolic syndrome as well. Furthermore I think metabolic syndrome mostly equals lipid peroxidation as it means a generalized inflammation caused by excessive LPOs. Thus anyone with such a chronic inflammatory state probably has an altered sperm profile as well.
I was also considering to do some blood tests as you had mentioned, and wanted to take samples before and after an O. However when I decided to do so I simply couldn’t puncture myself. I tried to push the needle into one of the fingers, but it was not piercing and I grew so frustrated that I abandoned the idea. While I often get bloody scratches during work, I find it difficult to hurt myself voluntarily. It is also a problem that I have to work with my hands every day and such a wound can be painful for a week which makes grasping with it really annoying.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on November 10, 2024, 09:41:13 AM

Quote from: Muon on February 28, 2024, 09:52:52 AM

You may use the AI for a quick overview which staining/dyes highlight specific components of sperm. If I remember correctly Methylene blue might stain mast cells but some granules will show up with a different color than blue. The problem is that you do not have a reference of normal cell biology in general.

Do you think the mast cells are actually in the ejaculate?
Nevertheless I got some Methylene Blue some time ago and dropped some on the ejaculate sample when I last used the microscope. This turned out really funny as all the spermatozoa were swimming around with blue heads that was quite bizarre. Of course this is on top of doing microscopy on ones own sperm, which is quite bizarre as it is. Nevertheless I can’t say this lead to any new revelations and even if it has some problems my sperm appears mostly alright. I guess men with infertility issues must have even worse quality sperm and even so they probably don’t have POIS. As it was unlikely that doing microscopy would lead to any new information and because it is such a hassle, especially after an O I gave up on doing it a few months ago.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Muon on November 10, 2024, 10:46:35 AM

Mast cells can be found in seminal fluid (in fertile men, infertile men or both?). I do not know what concentration is involved.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on November 10, 2024, 11:06:49 AM

Quote from: Physi on April 21, 2024, 05:14:21 PM

Quote from: Progecitor on February 10, 2024, 02:21:00 PM

By the way I ate about 10 pieces of Physalis in the morning and about two hours later the eye condition certainly improved. It didn’t do much else, but at least it shows that physalis has some clear benefit.

Hi Progecitor,

The research you are doing is awesome. I see you have tried physalis berries.

I have experimented with this berries a lot, trying different time frames and amounts.

The thing is the effect is barely noticeable, except if I use them in the exact right way, that I described in a post.
If they are used correctly, they prevent POIS from happening for me (it works only before orgasm). But if I miss the time frame, they have 0 effect.
In my opinion, that is why some people try them and think they are useless.

Some people tried them and have answered my post, saying that it worked 100% preventing POIS for them too.

Here is the link : https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3306.0

I think it's worth a try  ;)

Keep me posted

I am sorry to hear that physalis stopped working for you and I hope you find something else soon.
Unfortunately I don’t think timing would change much in my case. To begin with I have chronic POIS and the symptoms are rather persistent. Thus when I have an O it does not initiate symptoms, but only makes them worse. It is true that there is a significant exacerbation in a short amount of time on such occasions. I have already found several good supplements that could ameliorate POIS to a great degree even at onset, however practically everything drops in efficacy very rapidly making them much less useful. I don’t think there were any occasions when POIS was completely prevented, but there were a few times when the supplements could greatly ameliorate the onset. Even so in the following days POIS would still emerge to some degree even though I would still take the supplements continuously.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on November 14, 2024, 02:08:57 PM

Additional new supplements that I have tried during the past year.
As usual the short version is here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40769#msg40769

Catuaba bark 2 – small catuaba (Erythroxylum catuaba) [465 mg per capsule; 1-2]: It is the same brand as the other, but it uses a different source. Unfortunately even the first box lost its anti-depressive effect after the beginning, but I could certainly see the benefit on libido with that one. This one seemed less effective, but I am not sure if it is due to drug resistance or the different source. Even so anyone wishing to try catuaba should first obtain a product containing Trichilia catigua (big catuaba) as it may work better in comparison.
Actually there is a good comparison between the two at this site:
https://thesunlightexperiment.com/herb/catuaba

Catuaba bark tea – small catuaba tea (Erythroxylum catuaba): Unfortunately it did not prove as useful as I had hoped. It had a little benefit at most and there was no anti-depressive effect either. This tea has a red color by the way. Later I used the whole bag by adding it to mixed herbal teas. I guess it must have at least a little benefit, but small catuaba is clearly not as useful as big catuaba at least in my case.

MACA [500 mg per capsule containing 2.5 mg beta-ecdysterone; Rd: 1]: I took daily 1 or 2, but this wasn’t particularly more useful than the other maca products. Actually by this time I got a bit desensitized to maca, which could be one reason for the lower effectiveness. It is interesting that maca is also a source of beta-ecdysterone, which may work in conjunction with diosgenin. Strangely though the suma root I took also contained about 2.5 mg ecdysterone and that one seemed more effective. I have to note though that the other ecdysterone extract contained 300 mg ecdysterone per capsule and while it felt really nice, even that did not resolve POIS completely.

MACA [600 mg 6:1 extract per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took daily 2-3 caps. This was a big box (240) of the same brand I had originally had success with, however it was only minimally beneficial. I couldn’t experience any anti-depressive effect anymore. Either I developed drug resistance or the quality deteriorated. I took the whole box without seeing any major change. Even if a bit disappointing I will probably continue taking maca in the future.

Black maca complex [50 mg 100:1 black maca root extract, 50 mg 10:1 siberian ginseng extract, 50 mg L-arginine HCL, 10 mg black pepper powder, 6 mg Zinc (60%); Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps in a few days, but this supplement was a serious disappointment. Initially it has quite a nice anti-inflammatory effect (as usual around 6 hours), however later it causes a serious increase in the burning pain, which makes my symptoms worse. I am rather sure this is due to black pepper as it is hard to imagine anything else. If only the producer did not put black pepper in the combination it would have been a nice supplement, but they just had to mess it up for me.

Fenugreek extract (seed) [500 mg per capsule containing 250 mg saponins; Rd: 3]: I only took 1 per day, but I took the whole box (90 caps). I took it along with garlic caps before going to bed, but I think it only had a slight benefit.

Garlic extract with olive oil [1 capsule contains 10 mg 100:1 odorless garlic extract and olive oil; Rd: 1]: I always took 1 before bed with some fenugreek caps. Unfortunately I couldn’t see this combination making any significant difference. I think it was a little useful, but also inadequate.

Garlic complex caps [60 mg hawthorn fruit extract (1:2), 60 mg Mistletoe herb extract (1:1), 160 mg garlic extract (1:1); Rd: 3]: I took the whole box (100). I think it was a little bit useful, but it did not do anything major.

Raw garlic: For a few days I ate it regularly and sometimes I still do, however I don’t think it makes any major difference. Most of the time I took 1 clove minced and rarely 2 pieces, but I don’t think this had made any particular difference. At least this was how I felt after a few occasions, however even later I ate it more regularly often along fenugreek powder and quite a number of other stuff and from time-to-time I felt quite better and I suspect that their combination could have contributed to the overall benefit.

Asafoetida spice 2: I used it as a spice on a daily basis most often with nutmeg. It was less effective than the other product, but probably not only due to fenugreek. It was probably a quality issue. The other asafoetida product gave me crazy spontaneous erections that fenugreek hardly did, so next time I will try to buy that again.

Black cumin seed oil [100% organic, raw; Rd:1-2 teaspoon]: I took with 3 teaspoons in a day. It seemed to induce bloodshot eyes as one of the eyes was quite bloodshot about 4-6 hours after intake. Before going to bed both seemed worse. At least gut issues appeared moderately better. Thus it probably has a mixed effect on POIS. I tried it on a different day later, but once again it induced bloodshot eyes, so I won’t be using it again and I will only eat black cumin seed as raw.

Black cumin seed [raw; Rd: 1-2?g]: On the first day I ate with about 3 coffeespoons. It seemed to help with eye issues a little. From past experience it can help with gut issues, but after the first box of caps its effectiveness lessened. As I could get a good amount of black cumin seed quite cheaply I began to bake it into the gluten free bread on a regular basis. I consumed it so for more than a month, but than I realized that its compounds are probably heat sensitive, thus I began to add it to my morning smoothies instead (about 1/3 teaspoon). This way I could notice some benefit again, which dwindled shortly afterwards with continued usage. I have been taking it for about 5 months now and increased the dose to about half a teaspoon.

Black cumin oil plus capsules [In 1 capsule: 500 mg black caraway oil, 6.7 mg Vitamin E (alpha-TE), 6 mg pantothenic acid, 100 ug biotin, 100 ug folic acid, 2 ug (80 IU) vitamin D3; Rd: 6 (3x2)]: Interestingly this one also induces bloodshot eyes, whenever I use it, which is rather frustrating. Taking only 1 capsule does this, thus it is not a dosage issue. Biotin and folic acid could be suspected as a cause, but I also had the same problem with black cumin seed oil as well.

Oregano oil in corn germ oil [2 ml contains 565 mg MUFA of which 554 mg oleic acid and 1072 mg PUFA of which 1072 mg is omega– 6 fatty acid,  Rd: 1 coffeespoon (2 ml)]: It had a very mild taste compared to oregano essence, so I don’t believe there was much oregano in it, but at least it was really easy to consume. For this reason I did not expect much either. Even so from time to time I think the muscle pain appeared less intense, though not so remarkably as it happened with the oil essence. I am also a bit worried about omega-6 though this particular product did not seem to induce bloodshot eyes.

Balsam pear/bitter gourd extract [150 mg bitter gourd extract per softgel caps; Rd: 2]: I mostly took one per day and sometimes two and a whole box (100). It had some benefit on gut issues in the beginning, but it got less useful over time. I think this product was also less useful than the other I had tried before, but this may have been due to the low dose. At least this did not cause any stomach problems as the one before even when taking 2 per day.

African mango seed extract [700 mg 1:10 seed extract per caps; Rd: 1]: Mostly one per day and sometimes 2 and a whole box (60): I mostly took it with bitter gourd, but I think that one was more useful. Well, it was a little useful at least, though sometimes I felt that it may have made gut issues a little worse as well, though I am really not sure about this even after taking the whole box. I can’t compare it to the other african mango product as I had gifted that away after testing it.

Holy basil/Tulsi (Ocimum tenuiflorum) [for hair care]: I took with two teaspoons (1/2+1+1/2) in a day and had an O. This turned out to be quite good. I did not experience an anti-depressive effect, but it clearly improved eye symptoms to a moderate degree. In the evening I had an O and the ejaculate was moderately burning. Actually the sexual function was somewhat low, but the reason was probably that I also masturbated in the morning and the previous day as well and it was probably just normal sexual fatigue I think. Right after masturbation one of the eyes got bloodshot, but most interestingly it actually improved a few hours later instead getting worse as it should normally after POIS onset. Even better when waking up in the morning I felt myself unexpectedly well. Of course I was far from perfect, but cognition was relatively clear and the eyes were only slightly or normally bloodshot. The first urine was devoid of burning pain, which was a clear improvement. Gut issues were also somewhat better.
In the afternoon I had developed a neck lymph node inflammation, that persisted for a few days afterwards. I don’t necessarily think this to be a side-effect, as it happens from time-to-time. At least nothing other mentionable happened. While not perfect it certainly belongs in the best category.
Since then I have often taken it in smaller doses (1 teaspoon) as part of a powder blend tea. Unfortunately I could not experience the same level of benefit as at that first time, but I also could not find any side-effects either. Later I will try to increase the dosage. At least I can say that it has a very nice taste, so even if only for that it is really worth to consume tulsi regularly.

Bhringaraj powder (Eclipta alba) [Rd: 1/2-1 teaspoon]: I took with 1.5 teaspoon in a day. Similarly to tulsi it is used as a hair care product, though it did not prove to be as useful as the former. It wasn’t useful for the eye problem and it did not have an anti-depressive effect. At least in the morning the first urine was not particularly burning and the morning felt just alright. Gut issues were minimally better, if at all. I think it may have a little benefit, but holy basil is certainly the better choice among the two. At least my mother claimed it be really good for haircare, what I may also test later.

Fish collagen [Naticol(R) 2000 Da; Rd: 2.5-5g or 5-10g]: I took with 4 teaspoons in a day.
It was a little useful, but I don’t think it has a significant benefit at least short term. One of my friends had an acne problem related to this product, but she found bovine collagen to be quite useful for her health problems without side-effect. This also implies that different types of collagen may have somewhat different effects.

Hydrolysed collagen [In a scoop (18 g) of powder: 16.6 g hydrolysed collagen peptides, 900 mg Vitamin C, citric acid, natural flavouring (strawberry-kiwi), colourant (beetroot red), sweetener (sucralose); Rd: 1 scoop (18 g)]: I took 1 scoop (18 g) daily in the morning smoothie, until the bag got empty (500 g). Unfortunately I could not see it making any particular difference. I also could not note any adverse effects either. I believe it is a little useful, but the only actual use it had was as a flavoring for the smoothie.

Bovine collagen [Rd: 1 tablespoon]: 1 teaspoon daily. The first time I took it had a stronger anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues, but it also resulted in a weak diarrhea. By continued consumption this problem resolved however once again the anti-inflammatory effect lessened as well just like it usually goes. At least bovine collagen surely seems to be more effective than the other two forms I had tried before.

Oyster mushroom + King trumpet mushroom [powder]: I took with 3 coffeespoon in a day mostly put in hot water. Unfortunately it only had a little positive effect similar to the lion’s mane powder. I can’t figure why the standalone King trumpet mushroom was better than the former two products. I will certainly have to recheck that as well. Later I took both for a longer time and the standalone king trumpet mushroom was certainly better initially, however after a short time its effectiveness decreased just as it always happens.

Beta glucan plus maitake [100 mg Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan and 150 mg Maitake powder per capsule; Rd: 3]: I only took 1 per day. It was possibly a little useful, but it did not make any significant difference even after a whole box.

7 mushroom powder [ingredients: reishi (ganoderma lucidum), chaga (inonotus obliquus), shiitake (lentinus edodes), maitake (grifola frondosa), common lion’s mane (hericium erinaceus), cordyceps (cordyceps militaris), silver ear fungus (tremella fuciformis); Rd: 5 g]: I have already tried the encapsulated version of the same kind. I took 1.5 teaspoon on a test day. In the morning I had more work than usual, but it seemed like the powder could protect the eyes a little. However in the afternoon they were a little worse, which was possibly due to eating something and even in the morning they were more like average, so it may not help as much as I had hoped. It also did not have a particular anti-depressive power, but at least in the morning I was not particularly depressed. Regarding gut issues the burning pain felt reduced, but stool quality wasn’t much better. The most notable things in the morning were the reduced pain of urination and the rhinitis also felt improved. As a possible side-effect the gallbladder pain felt a little stronger than usual, which happens when I take a lot of supplements. Though a bit disappointing it deserves a moderate-good score. I haven’t yet taken it regularly, but a few times I did and it can certainly improve the eyes, however at the same time I am rather sure that it can induce the gallbladder pain as well, which makes me question its safety for the liver.

Reishi extract (Ganoderma lucidum) [650 mg 5:1 reishi extract per capsule; Rd: 2-3]: I took 3 capsules daily in the beginning then switched to daily 1-2. I think it helped with bloodshot eyes at the start, but I could not see a benefit on the muscles that I hoped for. Nevertheless I consider ganoderma as one of the better medicinal mushrooms and so far I couldn’t perceive any adverse effects either that is a common problem with these mushrooms.

Krill oil (Euphausia superba - crustacean) [1000 mg per caps containing 400 mg phospolipids, 120 mg EPA, 80 mg DHA and 100 ug astaxanthin; Rd: 2]: Sometimes I took 2, but most of the time only 1 capsule as it was a small box (30). It had a noticeable anti-inflammatory effect, especially in the beginning, however it did not do anything significant ultimately.

Astaxanthin 3 [160 mg Haematococcus pluvialis algae extract with 8 mg (5%) astaxanthin per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 1-2 daily and consumed a whole box (120 caps). At the beginning it certainly made me feel quite better, but as the days went on it lost its initial shine. Nevertheless I consider it one of the more useful stuff. I could not experience any side-effects either despite the higher dose, thus the tinnitus from the other product might have been an artifact or quality issue. Several people felt better after eating salmon and I think both astaxanthin and omega-3 oil must be involved in this, though I would say that individually astaxanthin is a little better.

Norwegian salmon oil [1200 mg per capsule (omega-3: 153.6 mg, omega-6: 180 mg, DHA: 24 mg, EPA: 21.6 mg, DPA: 9.6 mg, astaxanthin: 6 ug); Rd: 1-2]: I took daily 2 for about 1.5 months. I think I noticed a little benefit in the beginning, but not afterwards. Fortunately I could not experience any side-effects, unlike with the other fish oil caps that gave me bad heartaches in the past. While it does not solve POIS I will probably take this regularly in the future. It probably has a weak-moderate benefit.

Coenzyme Q10 + Vitamin E [60 mg Q10 and 35 mg vit. E per capsule; Rd: 1]: I think Q10 with vitamin E was better than the one without, similarly to the case of lycopene and astaxanthin. It was mostly useful for the gut issues only though.

N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) [600 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: For several weeks I took daily two caps alongside daily two Q10 caps. It didn’t do anything major, but appears a little useful at least. I think it improved eye and gut issues a little, but it has no anti-depressive effect. Its efficacy is possibly similar to that of quercetin. I suspect that taking such a dose for a longer time may cause epigastrial cramping, so taking 1 should be better on a daily basis and more only when there is a need. I also believe that Q10 is more effective than NAC.

N-acetyl-carnitine (ALCAR) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I have been taking daily one or two and rarely three for several weeks. Unfortunately I couldn’t see it making any major change. Specifically the muscle pain felt mostly as usual. I think it is a little beneficial and I couldn’t experience any side-effects otherwise. By the way I had some problems with carnitine tartarate in the past, but not with this form.

TUDCA+NAC (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid) [1 capsule contains: 300 mg NAC, 267 mg TUDCA; Rd:3]: I mostly took daily one or two and sometimes three for several weeks. I was really looking forward to try this, but felt a little disappointed. I think it helps a little, but I just could not see any major benefit. I suspect that daily 3 makes the stool much looser without significantly reducing the burning pain. Most often I took it alongside ALCAR, but it did not seem to make a difference.

Glucosamine sulphate 2KCl (shellfish) [1500 mg per tablet with 888 mg glucosamine]: I took 2 boxes most often 2 per day. It did not seem to have any particular benefit on POIS and the joint pain in the legs was mostly as usual. However it managed to reduce the pain in my right elbow that is a chronic pain due to some accident.

Liposomal vitamin C+D3+Zn [In 1 softgel capsule: 300 mg vitamin C, 25 ug (1000 IU) vitamin D3, 10 mg zinc, 20 mg rosehip extract, 20 mg citrus bioflavonoid; Rd:1-2]: I have taken a full box of this already. By taking daily one I couldn’t see a significant benefit however. I think it showed a little benefit on the eyes with the other supplements from time to time. While the ingredients are certainly nice, they just don’t seem to be of sufficient strength to deal with the power of POIS. I am going to take vit. C/D as part of the stack, but only as a base and not because they would provide the major benefit. It is interesting to note that even though I was taking zinc on a daily basis I did not develop the earlier mentioned buttocks inflammation, though I thought zinc may be a contributor. At least it seems to be safe in this daily amount. I guess this product deserves a weak-moderate score on its own.

Vitamin C [1000 mg L-ascorbic acid and 50 mg rose hip extract per pill; Rd: 1]: I took part of a box (about 100) by taking daily 1, but I can’t say it was any particularly more useful than the other vitamin C products.

Vitamin C+D [1000 mg of vitamin C + 100 ug (4000 IU) vitamin D + 50 mg citrus bioflavonoid per pill; Rd: 1]: I skipped on taking a separate vitamin D while on it, but similarly to the previous product it wasn’t particularly useful. This amount of vitamin C and D is clearly healthy, but one should not expect miracles on POIS. I took daily 1 pill and a whole box (90). Based on its content it is still one of the nicer products.

Slow release Vitamin C [1000 mg vitamin C + 50 ug (2000 IU) vitamin D + 30 mg rose hip per pill; Rd: 1]: I took daily 1 pill and about half a box. I can’t say it was any particularly more useful than the other products, thus a slow release does not necessarily improve efficacy.

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) [50 ug (2000 IU) vitamin D + 148 mg safflower oil per softgel caps; Rd: 1]: When taking 1 per day I couldn’t see much of a benefit, however this was one of the products I used when I tried 10000 IU daily and that made me feel rather well for a few days at least. I wonder if safflower oil had anything to do with this benefit or if it was purely due to vitamin D.

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) [75 ug (3000 IU) vitamin D per softgel caps + soybean oil; Rd: 1]: Similarly to the other product on its own it wasn’t particularly useful, however this was the other product I used when I went on the 10000 IU daily protocol, that in the beginning provided a really nice benefit on POIS.

Daily 10000 IU vitamin D3: I have been taking different vitamin D supplements daily (2000-4000 IU) for more than a year without seeing much benefit. However when I upped the dose to 10000 IU it clearly made me feel much better right away even after an O. My eyes got really clear and I also felt a little less depressed. It did not particularly help with leg pain, however in the post O mornings the pain was more focused and less diffuse. As a possible side effect on the second day I felt a dull tension in the head, but this subsided in the followings days. Unfortunately its benefit also dissipated after a few days despite the daily dosage. I still took this amount daily for a month, but than I returned to taking it as usual. Later I may try a higher dosage, though I suspect this could be unsafe as vitamin D deficiency is not necessarily the problem. I would put this among the best, though drug resistance kills my initial joy again.

Vitamin K2 (menakinon-7 form) [100 ug vitamin K2 MK-7 per caps; Rd: 2]: I took one capsule each morning alongside the daily vitamin D as recommended. I don’t think in itself it had any particular effect, though I haven’t tried a greater dose. I also took the whole box (180), thus I used it for half a year. Currently I only use the general ADEK, which contains 75 ug vitamin K, thus I should probably get more soon, as ADEK contains 2000 IU and I still take the other 2000-4000 IU vitamin D capsules daily.

B12 Forte (cyanocobalamin) [250 ug per pill (10000% of daily reference dose); Rd: 1-3]: I took 1 pill per day mostly and occasionally two, but I haven’t yet tested it thoroughly. Sometimes I think I saw some weaker anti-depressive effect at its peak effect, but it was not consistent. B12 seems to be moderately useful at this dosage, however a higher dose may be unsafe, so I am a little hesitant to try that.

B complex vitamin 1 [B1: 2.03 mg (184.55%), B2: 2 mg (142.86%), B3 (nicotinamide): 15 mg (93.75%), B5: 4.6 mg (76.67%), B6: 1.65 mg (117.86%), B12 (cyanocobalamin): 1.5 ug (60%); Rd: 1]: I have been taking 2-3 pills daily for more than a week. Unfortunately I could not see any major improvement either in the beginning or later. I don’t think it had any adverse effect either at least.

B complex vitamin 2 [B1: 1.33 mg (121%), B2: 1.4 mg (100%), B3: 16 mg (100%), B5: 6.56 mg (109%), B6: 1.71 mg (122%), B7: 50 ug (100%), B9: 200 ug (100%), B12: 5 ug (200%); Rd: 1]: I took daily 1 pill. I don’t think I saw any adverse reaction, and sometimes I thought it was a little useful actually. It wasn’t significantly useful though. At least this proves that a normal amount of these vitamins is safe enough and I only get adverse reactions when oversupplementing some vitamins like biotin or folate.

Vitamin and mineral complex (Centrum A-Z) [vit A: 800 ug (100%), vit E: 15 mg (125%), vit C: 100 mg (125%), vit D: 5 ug (100%), vit K: 30 ug (40%), B1: 1.4 mg (127%), B2: 1.75 mg (125%), B3: 20 mg (125%), B5: 7.5 mg (125%), B6: 2 mg (143%), B7: 62.5 ug (125%), B9: 200 ug (100%), B12: 2.5 ug (100%), Ca: 162 mg (20%), P: 125 mg (18%), Mg: 100 mg (27%), Fe: 5 mg (36%), I: 100 ug (67%), Cu: 0.5 mg (50%), Mn: 2 mg (100%), Cr: 40 ug (100%), Mo: 50 ug (100%), Se: 30 ug (55%), Zn: 5 mg (50%); Rd: 1]: Interestingly it felt quite good when I first used it and I even had an O after seeing its initial benefit. I was actually feeling well and it ameliorated POIS. Even so this lasted like 1 or 2 days and then its benefit was significantly reduced just like with most other stuff. It goes in the best category, not that it matters much if it stops working. It seems to make the eyes a little better, which means that at least I can tolerate this amount of biotin and folic acid, though not more based on other supplements. Other POISers also found Centrum to be useful, though it has different varieties, but it may serve as a good reference for the effectiveness of multivitamins.

Iron complex [In 1 capsule: 100 mg vitamin C, 400 ug vitamin B9 (pteroylmonoglutamic acid), 18 mg iron, 12 mg zinc; Rd: 1]: I tried it a few times and it induces bloodshot eyes, otherwise I couldn’t see any improvement. I guess the negative effect is either due to iron or folic acid.

Active folic acid (Quatrefolic form – glucosamine salt of (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolate) [400 ug per cap; Rd: 1]: I tried it a few times and this one also clearly induces bloodshot eyes. I couldn’t experience any improvements besides that. Folic acid is rather disappointing so far and money spent on different forms just feels like a waste.

Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) [100 mg per capsule (7692%); Rd: 1]: I took it several times mostly in the afternoon. Unfortunately I couldn’t see it making anything major aside from making the urine majorly yellow. This did not result in a particular reduction of the burning pain of the urine, so it may not actually help much with the POIS inflammation.

Mg-threonate [20 mg Mg per caps; Rd:1]: I have been taking it for more than a month before going to sleep, but disappointingly I could not see it doing anything in particular. Recently I switched to taking it in the morning, but it changed nothing. It does not appear to be harmful in any way at least. This form is supposed to pass the blood-brain barrier, but this may not amount to much in regard of POIS.

Mg-citrate [42 mg Mg per pill; Rd: 3]: I was really surprised when I switched from Mg-threonate to Mg-citrate as my mornings certainly felt much better following that. I even tried switching back to Mg-threonate and those mornings certainly felt worse compared to when I took Mg-citrate before going to bed. I was so glad about Mg-citrate which lasted a few days till I realized that it was also losing its edge. It is really frustrating that even minerals are culled by drug resistance. Nevertheless this form of magnesium is certainly the best I have found so far. It may be interesting to note that a friend of mine complained about Mg-bisglycinate being useless, however she found Mg-citrate to be so much better. This may suggest that Mg-citrate is really the most useful form of magnesium even if we consider otherwise generally healthy people. Considering my experience with the other magnesium forms I also have to wonder if the citrate part is actually more important.

Mg-malate [100 mg magnesium per capsule; Rd: 2]: I stopped taking Mg-citrate to test this, but even after several weeks of taking it I just can’t see any major benefit. I think it is marginally more useful than Mg-threonate, but certainly less so than Mg-citrate. Mg-malate is said to be useful in the treatment of CFS and it also has less gut-related side-effects. Nevertheless by personal experience I would still opt for Mg-citrate.

Mg-bisglycinate [150 mg magnesium per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I had been taking daily 1 for about 2 weeks and then daily 2 for two weeks as well. Unfortunately I can’t say I had noticed it making a significant change even if taken before sleeping when any benefit should be must clearly seen, thus Mg-citrate is certainly better.

Mg-orotate (magnesium orotate dihydrate) [500 mg per pill; Rd: 2-3, max 6 for a week]: I took daily 3 pills for a week. Well I couldn’t see it making such a difference as Mg-citrate. My gut issues were rather low at the time, but I think it was due to something else, though it may have contributed a little. Even so it may be only as useful as Mg-malate.

Lutein 1 [12 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: Most of the time I took it in the mornings as it is supposed to be good for the eyes. It may have a minimal benefit, but it was less beneficial than other stuff I found useful for the eyes (e.g: Rhodiola, rutin etc.).

Lutein 2 [20 mg per pill containing 20 mg lutein and 1 mg zeaxanthin; Rd: 1]: Once again I could not see any major difference, though it is probably good for the eyes nonetheless. Even if it does not help acutely it may still slow the deterioration.

Essential amino acids - EAA [Ingredients: L-Leucine 25 % (3 g), L-Lysine 16 % (1.92 g), L-Isoleucine 13 % (1.56 g), L-Valine 13 % (1.56 g), L-Threonine 10 % (1.2 g), L-Phenylalanine 9 % (1.08 g), L-Methionine 7 % (0.84 g), L-Histidine 5 % (0.6 g), L-Tryptophan 2 % (0,24 g), citric acid, mango and maracuja as flavor, sucralose as sweetener, color (red beet, beta-carotene); Rd: 1 scoop (12 g)]: I took about 1 scoop or a little less (10-12 g) every morning in a mixed smoothie until the bag was emptied (250 g). I had some hopes about this, but in the end it did not show any particular benefit neither in the beginning, nor later after several weeks of usage. It is probably a little useful, but not so much as to make any real difference. The thing I liked about this is that due to the flavor it could mask the dull or bad taste of the other stuff I put in the smoothie.

L-Valine [powder; Rd: 3g]: I think it showed some benefit on the first day with a bigger dosage, however when taking it continuously in a normal amount it did not seem to do much. I consumed a whole bag (250 g) by taking one scoop (3 g) as part of the morning smoothie. It has a slightly unpleasant taste which reminds me of MSM and for this reason I often took the two together alongside a flavored powder. One other problem I find with L-valin is that it can’t easily dissolve in water and I often have to eat the powder rather than drink it.

L-Methionine [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps in a day and had an O. My initial experience was rather great. I had an O around noon, but the POIS flare was minimal and remained low throughout the day. I was not feeling myself super well of course, but there was clearly some difference from the usual. I took it a few times afterwards, but it did not provide the same benefit as on the first occasion. It is also said that methionine accelerates aging, which made me hesitant in taking a higher dose or for a longer time.

L-Threonine [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 3]: I took it regularly, but I did not find it particularly useful. Given that EAA contained 1200 mg of threonine, without much benefit, I shouldn’t expect much from this product either. In the beginning I took 2-3 per day mostly alongside L-serine not like it made much of a difference, later I only took daily 1 until the box was depleted.

L-Serine [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 caps on the first day. My eyes remained quite bad throughout the day. Depression was also rather usual. Gut issues seemed a little better at least. Afterwards I took 1-2 or sometimes 3 in a day for several weeks. Generally I think it did nothing significant in any regard even after weeks of usage. It does not appear to have any particular side-effects, so I guess it may be slightly useful, but phosphatidylserine was much more evidently useful as a comparison.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on December 25, 2024, 10:05:10 AM

Other new stuff that I had tried during the past year:

Ecdysterone (Rhaponticum carthamoides) [333 mg 35:1 extract per capsule; Rd:1]: Usually I took 1-2 and sometimes 3. This was the first product I had tried and the one that showed the most benefit. It clearly had some anti-depressive effect after around 6 hours that was only temporary though as usual. It also made my eyes clearer and improved my gut problems. It even helped with muscle fatigue, so it is a good all-rounder. I had the best results when I combined it with guggul and taking more than one per day of both. I think this specific product was stronger than the turkesterone that is kind of similar and a little better than L-Dopa as well, though I would need to test them more rigorously to tell for sure. I have already taken the full box (90) of course.

Anise + Activated charcoal [In 1 capsule: 100 mg anise seed, 50 mg activated charcoal, 50 mg cumin, 50 mg coriander, 25 mg lemon verbena, 25 mg fennel; Rd: 3]: I took 3 caps in a day. It certainly induced a lot of flatulence, but otherwise I couldn’t see a significant improvement. Actually in the afternoon I developed a moderate chest inflammation, but I am not sure if it was due to the supplement or something that I ate. Actually I wanted to take more caps, but this made me reconsider. At least I did not get any headache as it happened with anise tea formerly. On some other days I took it with no issues, however I take a lot of other supplements and I am afraid that charcoal could inactivate them, so I use it rarely.

Diosmin and hesperedin complex [Composition of one of them: 450 mg diosmin, 50 mg hesperidin, 100 mg horse-chestnut extract, 80 mg vitamin; of the other: 450 mg diosmin, 50 mg hesperidin, 50 mg,  50 mg Red grape leaf extract, 10 mg zinc citrate; Rd: 2 for each]: I took two different products with similar content. I took two of each in a day. Unfortunately I couldn’t see a clear benefit. It was a little beneficial for gut issues, but I couldn’t note an improvement in the eyes. The other product I took earlier had a higher dose, so maybe I need to take a higher dose at once to have some noticeable benefit. My friend claimed that this helped with her varicose veins on her legs at least temporarily.

Marjoram tea (Origanum majorana): I made a hot tea by putting 1 tablespoon of dried marjoram in 1.2 liter of hot water. The eyes remained relatively alright throughout the day, but I think it was mostly a lingering effect of tulsi. I actually felt a possible slight anti-depression at its peak though. This may be due to its rosmarinic acid content. Gut issues weren’t much better as the burning pain was at least moderate, which was probably due to POIS. I did not experience a particular lightening of muscle pain, though as I remember oregano tea also did not do so. Since then I have used it as a regular spice, though without seeing a significant benefit.

Balsamic vinegar [Rd: max 2 tablespoon]: I took with 3 teaspoons in a day. It did not really improve bloodshot eyes or only minimally, but at least in the morning I was not very photophobic. During the day I couldn’t see much of a difference from baseline, but the morning felt slightly better than usual. When I woke up early morning I felt a little more relaxed than usual. When getting up in the morning I still had muscle pain, but somehow I felt like I could move around a little easier. I don’t think it improved rhinitis. Gut issues were about moderately better. It may deserve a moderate-good rating, though once again it may have had a positive interaction with the other supplements I took. Actually before going to bed I also took the apple cider vinegar caps as well. As the taste of balsamic vinegar is very close to that of apple cider vinegar, I guess they may be used as substitutes. I think its effect should be similar to a combination of niacin and flavonoids.

Turmeric extract (Curcuma longa) [450 mg turmeric extract per capsule with 47.5 mg curcumin; Rd:1]: On the first day I took 3 caps, but I could see the benefit after the first one, later I took 1 or 2 a day. This was the fourth turmeric product I tried and actually the first to have an evident benefit. It helped with bloodshot eyes, however not so much with photophobia or depression. Joint and muscle pain were also mostly as usual. It had about a moderate anti-inflammatory effect at least in the first few days afterwards which it wasn’t noticeably useful. I guess it deserves a moderate score.

Pygeum (Pygeum africanum) [400 mg bark extract per capsule with 25% phytosterols (26 mg); Rd:2]: I took 3 caps in a day and had an O. It certainly helped with the eye problem, as even after O the eyes did not became particularly worse. It does not seem to have an anti-depressive effect though. I can’t say that sexual function appeared particularly good, but at least I could last for a relatively good time, so it may improve endurance if nothing else. As a possible side effect it caused some vague cramping pain at the crotch. Later I used it rather regularly, but mostly 1 per day. I think it helped a little in the beginning, but the benefit got less noticeable later. At this dose I also could not experience any side-effects at least. I think it has a similar protective effect as I3C, though the latter is evidently stronger.

Calcium D-Glucarate [250 mg per capsule with 30 mg of calcium]: The former product was gifted away, but the new I bought had a bit increased dose. I took daily 1 and sometimes 2, but unfortunately it did not prove to be particularly good even though I have a slightly elevated estrogen level. It is supposed to help with osteoarthritis, but initially I think I heard more crackling, though later this wasn’t an issue, so I am not sure. I think I will try this again with a higher dose later.

Iberogast [tincture, extracts of peppermint, angelica, caraway, milk thistle, lemon balm, greater celandine, licorice, bitter candytuft, chamomile; Rd: 3x20 drops]: I took 3x20 drops in a day. I think it has a little positive effect on the eyes, though not very significant. In the evening and morning I noticed  a definite reduction in the burning pain of the urine and it was easier to take a leak while standing. The rhinitis was similarly reduced, though only to a lesser degree. Gut issues were about moderately better. I think I can give this a moderate rating, but certainly shows some benefit. It has a nice ingredient list, though it may harm the liver with a higher dose. Later I tried to take it regularly, but then I developed some rather unusual and painful mouth inflammation after a few days in and I was suspecting Iberogast as a possible cause, so for the time being I suspended its usage.

Carnosic acid [7.5 mg carnosic acid + 10 mg polyphenols; Rd:1]: Mostly one, but sometimes two caps. I have been taking this alongside numerous supplements on a daily basis. I couldn’t specifically associate any benefit to it, but it is clearly not harmful either. The dose may be low at least when I consider other carnosic acid products. Next time I will aim for a higher dose product.

Pine bark extract (Pinus pinaster) [100 mg per capsule of which 95 mg is proanthocyanidins; Rd: 1]: This was another pine bark product. I took 1 or 2 daily. Unfortunately I could not really notice any particular benefit that I could assign to it. It also did not seem to have any side effects, so it is probably a little beneficial at least.

Passion flower extract (Passiflora incarnata) [350 mg 1:15 extract with 17.5 mg flavonoids per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily 1 before bed. I can’t say it was terribly useful, but it had some benefit on gut issues at least.

(Plain) Propolis caps: [165 mg per capsule containing 12.5 mg flavonoids; Rd: 2]: I think it had a little benefit on rhinitis, but otherwise it was not particularly useful.

Propolis tincture: I think it was even less useful than the propolis caps, though it is hard to tell as most of the time I drank it with mixed herbal teas, that already contain a lot of stuff.

L-theanine [100 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I regularly took 1 capsule before going to bed, but it was less useful than the other product. The other product contained 250 mg per capsule, which could be one of the reasons. Myricetin was more useful for sleeping as a comparison.

Pterostilbene 2 (trans-3,5-dimethoxy-4-hydroxystilbene) [50 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: This was less useful than the other product despite the similar content. It is also possible that only drug-resistance made it so. Nevertheless I took the whole box (180) by taking daily one in the afternoon. I am rather sure that it has at least some anti-inflammatory effect on the urinary track, though in itself it is clearly not enough.

Green cardamom caps (Elettaria cardamomum) [225 mg per capsule; Rd:1-2]: I took mostly one in the mornings and rarely two. I think it can help with the eyes a little, when taken alongside other stuff. It also have some benefit on gut issues. Its benefit is about the same as pomegranate, eucommia or Rhodiola. I will probably buy it as a spice in the future and will continue taking it as cardamom also has a really nice taste.

Immune support complex [1 capsule contains 10:1 extracts of the followings: 50 mg amla, 50 mg guduchi, 40 mg tribulus, 40 mg tulsi, 40 mg neem, 40 mg ginger, 40 mg noni, 40 mg andrographis, 40 mg licorice, 40 mg nut grass, 40 mg baheda, 40 mg garlic; Rd:2]: I took 3 caps on the test day and sometimes one on other days. I clearly felt a little anti-depressive effect at the peak of its effect and generally felt a little better every time I took it. The ingredient list is rather nice as practically all of these have shown some benefit in the past. Conversely this also means that such a combination could be useful to fortify the immune system. Interestingly its composition is also a bit similar to chyawanprash.

Probiotic complex [inulin, contains 10 strains: Bifidobacterium animalis lactis, Lactobacillus plantarum, Bifidobacterium breve, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus brevis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium infantis, Bifidobacterium longum, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Rd: 2]: Most of the time I took 1 or 2 daily. Unfortunately it did not prove to be very effective, possibly a little in the beginning, but with continued usage it wasn’t so useful as I had hoped even after about two boxes. Later I figured that it may actually make me feel worse in the mornings, if I took it before bedtime, but I still need to confirm this. At least it was claimed that B. infantis might be somewhat useful for CFS though.

Rhodiola rosea root [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 caps in a day. I think this product was a little better than the one I tried before. It could clearly help with the eye issues, though only weak-moderately. I did not experience an anti-depressive effect though. Afterwards I used it as a regular morning supplement to help the eyes along with other supplements. It probably has a diminishing effect just like the other stuff I took it along with, but still a little useful nonetheless. Its effectiveness was similar to eucommia or pomegranate extract.

Elderberry (Sambucus nigra) [10:1 extract with 500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: On the first day I took 3 caps then I usually took 1 per day. It clearly improved the eyes and it also had a little anti-depressive effect at its peak. I think it was a little more useful than Rhodiola. Nevertheless when taking elderberry in a daily manner its benefit was diminished just like with everything else. I still consider this one of the better things at least. I couldn’t experience any side-effects either.

PABA (para-aminobenzoic acid) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps in a day. It is hard to say, but I think it was actually a little beneficial. Eye and gut issues were a little better than usual, but this may have been a persisting effect of the Centrum pills as well from the day before. At least I could not experience any harm from it.
 
LIV.52 [1 pill contains: 65 mg Capparis spinosa, 65 mg Cichorium intybus, 33 mg ferric oxide, 32 mg Solanum nigrum, 32 mg Terminalia arjuna, 16 mg Cassia occidentalis, 16 mg Achillea millefolium, 16 mg Tamarix gallica; Rd: 1-2x2]: I took 3 in a day and had an O. I could not see any major benefit, but at least POIS onset was below average. I took it occasionally later, but some slight bladder pain often (not always) coincided with its usage, which made me a bit cautious about using it. Later I took daily 1 pill regularly, which did not result in any negative effects, though I also could not see positive ones either. I bought the double strength version, which may help figuring out later if it is actually useful. I also can’t see the rational in the inclusion of black nightshade, which is actually considered rather toxic. Actually my blood test was rather alright while taking it, even my Gilbert’s disease disappeared, though it is hard to say why exactly as I take a myriad of supplements every day.

Boswellia paste [10 ml contains: 25 mg Boswellia extract, 300 mg vitamin C, 25 mg cinnamon extract (1:12), 25 mg beta glucan, 1.4 mg zinc gluconate, guar gum and preservatives: sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate; Rd: 1 coffeespoon]: I thought it was a good buy, but this one also induces bloodshot eyes. Evidently it must be at least partly due to sodium benzoate. One rather surprising fact that I accidentally came over is that cinnamaldehyde is metabolized into sodium benzoate in the liver and thus cinnamon acts as a slow-release form of sodium benzoate, which makes me wonder about the actual health benefits of cinnamon and could possibly explain why I often develop bloodshot eyes after consuming cinnamon. Nevertheless this product is clearly something that I should avoid.

Beetroot powder: I still could not figure out whether beetroot is useful or not. Eating the root itself cooked or fried does not induce bloodshot eyes, however I could almost always notice an increase in the burning pain of the gut, which is not supposed to be good. I could also notice its aphrodisiac effect as on some morning I woke up with an erection when I ate it the day before. Consuming the powder once again seemed to increase the burning pain, however on a test day I took with 3 teaspoon and this problem wasn’t particularly bad, which makes me rather unsure about it. As a side-effect it can irritate the throat when drunk in a concentrated way.

Spinach powder [Rd: 3 tsp]: I took a whole bag (100g) by taking daily 1 teaspoon in the morning smoothie. Unfortunately I couldn’t notice a significant reaction from it. Fortunately I couldn’t see any adverse reactions either. It is possibly a little useful.

Kale powder [Rd: 2 tsp]: I took most of a bag (100g) by taking daily 1 tsp in the morning smoothie. I think it had a little benefit on gut issues, but I can’t say it was particularly effective.

Spirulina powder [Rd: 9 g (3 teaspoon)]: I took 1 teaspoon daily with the morning smoothie. I could not experience anything spectacular, but I think it helps with gut issues at least a little. I have already taken most of the bag (250g).

(West Indian) lemon grass powder: I haven’t tested this much, but contrary to my earlier experience with its tea, it did not induce any adverse effects such as bloodshot eyes. This also means that my negative experience with its tea might have been due to some contamination and not due to lemongrass itself. So far it actually appears a little beneficial, even on the eyes, but I will have to consume it more regularly to say more.

Valeriana (Valeriana officinalis L.) [100 mg per pill; Rd: 1-2x3]: I was taking mostly 1 before sleeping and took the whole box (60 pills). I don’t think it had much of an effect on sleep or otherwise. It maybe that the dose was too low, but regardless myricetin is much better for sleeping and otherwise as well. I tried a higher dose (500 mg) valeriana before with some use, but that was gifted away. I guess it doesn’t worth to buy products with such pathetic dosages even if taken for a long time.

Valeriana/lemon balm/magnesium [100 mg valeriana extract (0.4 mg valeric acid), 100 mg lemon balm extract (5 mg rosmarinic acid), 100 mg magnesium (citrate/oxide); Rd:1]: I took daily one before sleeping for two weeks. Unfortunately I couldn’t note any significant benefit, though it probably has a little one at least.

Wood betony tea (Stachys officinalis): I tried it a few times and had some positive experience with it. I can’t say it was very effective, but it showed a certain benefit. The eyes seemed to improve at the peak benefit and it had an anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. I also felt slightly better cognitively, though it was not a marked effect. Similarly the muscle pain also seemed reduced, but not significantly. I guess it deserves a moderate-good benefit as a first time experience. As a possible side effect at the first time I developed some epigastrial pain though this did not occur on the second day, so this may have been only a coincidental happening. Later I put it in the mixed herbal teas quite often and I think it provided some additional benefit, but not so much as in the beginning.
By the way wood betony is also recommended in the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome.

Ground-ivy tea (Glechoma hederacea): Although I haven’t tested it much, this one also had some benefit, though it is probably less powerful than wood betony.

Guaiacwood tea (Guaiacum officinale) [wood]: It certainly had some anti-inflammatory effect, though it wasn’t very significant. I will need to test this more in the future. Guaiacwood is also considered as an aphrodisiac, thus it should improve sexual health. It is also a component of the traditional sarsaparilla medicine that was used in the treatment of syphilis. Additionally guaiacol is chemically related to guaifenesin, that some CFS patients found to be useful.

Damiana leaf tea (Turnera diffusa): It certainly had some anti-depressive effect a few hours after drinking it. Unfortunately on the test day I also ate something bad, so I can’t say much more. However damiana is certainly a prospective treatment. I have been using damiana capsules for some time now and they appear to be more reliable than maca capsules at least.

Siberian ginseng root tea (Eleutherococcus senticosus): It had quite a strong carminative effect, which indicates an anti-inflammatory effect, however it did not make me feel that much better. Still I think it may be a good addition in a mixed tea. If I likened maca to damiana, then siberian ginseng is more like fenugreek.

Southernwood, lad's love, or southern wormwood tea (Artemisia abrotanum): On the first test day I could not see much of an initial reaction, however in the morning I was feeling quite noticeably better, thus it may need more time (about 12 hours) to work. Similarly to greater burdock root tea this one also has a green colour. It is supposed to be an aphrodisiac and an immunstimulant. Some of its constituents are: abrotin, adenine, adenosine, alkaloids, tannins, guanine, essential oil, bitter substance, caffeic acid, choline, rutin, tannins, tannic acid, thujone, umbelliferone.

Hazel leaves tea (Corylus): It may have helped with rhinitis and I think it had a little anti-inflammatory effect. It is nothing special, but it may be a good addition to a herbal blend.

Linden bark tea (Tilia cordata) [2 teasp. to 1.2 l water]: Based on one occasion I think it is slightly useful, but not particularly so. The flower and leaves tea is probably better. I could not see any side-effects.

Galangal root tea (Alpinia galanga) [2 teasp. to 1.2 liter of water]: I can’t say it was particularly effective, but the rhinitis and the burning pain of the urine were possibly reduced by it, if it wasn’t something else I took. Its taste also reminds me of a popular chewing gum from my childhood, which is peculiar. The other galangal spice powder I had often used before did not taste so good, so it is probably of lesser quality.

Nutmeg flower tea (Myristica fragrans) [4-5 husks to 1.2 liter of water]: Well, it had a pleasant taste, but aside from that I don’t think it was any particularly more useful than nutmeg itself. It may have a little benefit, but nothing considerable.

Mullein flower tea (Verbascum) [1 tablespoon to 1.5 liter of water]: I think it showed some benefit, but it is hard to say for now. It possibly had some anti-depressive effect and some benefit on the eyes. Maybe similar to chrysanthemum?

Common heather tea (Calluna vulgaris) [1 tablespoon to 1.5 liter of water]: It was possibly a little useful, but it did not have a significant benefit.

Tafedim tea (Euphorbia hirta L. herba) [Rd: 2-3 x 1 teabag]: Now this turned out something crazy. It is supposed to help with gut issues, however it did the exact opposite of that in my case. I used it on two days, but I only used 1 teabag on each and added about a liter of water, so I used it in a diluted form below daily recommendation. On the first day I had some gut pain, but I was not really caring about it and it mostly passed by the next day. On the second day came the avalanche. In the afternoon the gut pain occurred again and I was stupid enough to drink another cup of it. This was a major fault. By evening the epigastrial pain grew very strong and cramping pain was shooting after every few seconds. This lasted throughout the night and I felt like I am going to die. I also could not sleep a second due to the crazy stabbing pain every few seconds. The pain lasted throughout the next day, though at least by evening it got better. After this it took a few days for the pain to completely disappear. What is strange though that POIS actually felt better, however I could not really appreciate that, while I felt like dying. This could have been the result of that I hardly dared to eat anything, which may have caused a fasting benefit. I think the tea itself caused some epigastrial injury as I also had some recurrent hiccups, that also occurred when 2 decades ago I had a blocked hernia. The quality of pain and its resolution was very similar to the chest inflammation that I often get from acute POIS and once from wasp sting. I am rather sure that this should imply local tissue injury and in case of the gut issues it must have blocked passage that resulted in the cramps and hiccups. By the way in case of chest inflammations I also noticed that I would have shallow rapid breaths when the pain was strong. While it did not make my POIS worse this side-effect was so terrible, that I am never going to try this tea again.
 
D-ribose [850 mg per capsule; Rd: 5]: On the first day I certainly saw some anti-inflammatory effect after just taking one, however in the following days I took more and yet I could not see it making a significant difference. Afterwards I took daily 1-3 alongside the other stuff, however it just doesn’t have an impact. I think it has a moderate and diminishing effect. And yet a few times it seemed to give me just a little bit of extra energy that I needed, so it could be at least a bit useful nonetheless.

Methylene blue [1% methylene blue, 2 drops = 1 mg medical grade antiseptic]: 5-10 drops (2.5-5 mg) per day. I haven’t yet tested it extensively. With 5 drops I could not see any significant change, however with 10 drops I saw some benefits. On a day when I had quite a lot of work by the time I went home the muscle pain wasn’t as bad as I would have expected. As for side-effects, I could experience the blue urine about two times. It occurred when I was working more and I could not go to the loo. When going home and taking a leak it was evidently bluish. I find that it can irritate the throat when it is concentrated. Also when I drank it very fast I experienced blood vessel spasms a few minutes later. I also had a diarrhea a few times and the urge came while working, so it was rather inconvenient, thus I will not take it again in the morning even if it may help with exercise intolerance. As I remember other CFS members also noted that it has just too many side-effects.

Dandelion root (Taraxacum Sp.) [515 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: On the first day it had a really nice effect on gut issues, but afterwards it had a diminishing effect. I suppose it has a good benefit, but retrospectively it belongs in the best category. Actually I started to use it regularly later and with the other stuff I take I could achieve a fairly consistent and great benefit at least in the chronic phase of POIS. The burning quality of the stool almost disappeared for a month, while on it, which is quite extraordinary. Unfortunately other symptoms like depression and muscle pain persisted, but I still felt a little better generally nonetheless. I am not yet sure what are the other important contributors, but possibly sarsaparilla, Q10, ginger and some of the other stuff I take alongside. I think this product specifically provides more benefit than inulin or the bavarian bitter herbs supplement that also contains dandelion.

Lorazepam (Loranxil) [1 mg per pill 1.5-4 mg]: Finally I had managed to get a prescription for it. Unfortunately it did not prove as useful as I had hoped, but at least it did not cause any of the POIS mimetic effects, that clonazepam did. I took 1 mg before sleep for two weeks. I certainly slept more deeply than usual, so it must be an effect related to the benzodiazepine receptors. The only withdrawal symptom I had was a weak headache on the first morning when I did not take it in the evening. It may have some benefit, but I don’t see the point of forcing it, so I stopped taking it. Someone on the prostatitis site mentioned that he experienced a greatly increased libido on the 4-5th day of withdrawal. Actually I was also feeling relatively well on the 5th day, but I was trying something new as well, so I am not sure if such a reaction is true, but this could be interesting to look out for if anyone takes lorazepam. I also felt really well for a few weeks after stopping clonazepam, but I took that for years.

Bile production stimulating complex (Raphanus sativus L. radix) [3 mg black radish concentrate, also some fennel oil; Rd: 3]: When taking daily 3 pills, it really did feel to help with gut issues. I would say it has at least a moderate benefit. I took the pills (30) then I began to use a powder form. I think it also helps somewhat, but it can also cause a lot of flatulence and I may not actually feel myself that much better, so I only use it sparingly. Of course I also eat a lot of black radishes during winter, which also helped a little in the past. Recently I have also begun to use cumin as a regular spice, besides putting black cumin in the morning smoothie for quite a while now.

Bupropion (Elontril) [modified release, 150 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: I take one per day in the mornings as recommended. At this time I emptied almost three boxes (30 pill/per box), but I still can’t see it making any significant difference, which is kind of a let down. It may be possible that it improved gut problems in a smooth way as I had less problems lately, but I also take quite a lot of other stuff so it is hard to tell if bupropion is involved. I am going to continue and increase the dose to 300 mg as the psychiatrist recommended. So far I could not see any side-effects at least, but it also lacks an anti-depressive effect. In this regard L-Dopa was certainly more useful. At least I did the Yohimbine test while on it and both may increase norepinephrine, which in my case is clearly useful as it was for some other POISers. When I increased the dose it caused a dull heartache on two days a few hours after the second pill. This is probably a bad sign. I also did not feel particularly better unfortunately, so I returned to taking one per day.

Yohimbe retest [about 10 mg yohimbine per capsule]: For a long time I have skipped on this as I was distrustful about it. The product had just expired recently and I thought to try it a last time before throwing it out. To my astonishment when I began to use this again it made me feel really well. I took it 4 hours before an O event and that time my symptoms actually improved rather than get worse. Later they got a little worse, however in the morning I felt rather alright. Then I took yohimbe again and my usual 50+ stuff as well and in the evening I felt really well. My eyes got clearer and I also felt quite relaxed and aware, thus it reduced depression. It also improved libido as I had some spontaneous erections, though not as hard as with asafoetida. In the following days I took 2 per day, but it got less effective, though it still made a difference. As for side-effects on the first day I felt some chest pain, but I was preoccupied and did not make much note of it as something similar happened the last time I tried this. Later though it did not happen again. On the second day I also got quite a diarrhea, but it was more like a stimulus as its quality was rather good. On the following days this side-effect occurred rather consistently, however its benefit was somewhat reduced, just like it always does as drug resistance develops. Actually it is less of a diarrhea, but rather an urgency of defecation as the stool is mostly of normal consistency. This side effect happens most of the time, but rather inconsistently as sometimes the urgency comes as soon as 2 hours later at other times only 4 or 6 hours later and rarely not at all. I also took yohimbine with SAM-e and niacin and that way it seemed to work better, however on one occasion I wanted to sleep a little before an all night work, but I was restless and had a high pulse, so I could not in the end. I got a bit worried about this and since then I have only taken one capsule daily at most. Nevertheless I think my earlier judgment was false and it certainly goes in the best category.

Rutin 2 [50 mg rutin + 100 mg vitamin C per pill; Rd: 1]: I took one or two pills and sometimes even three, but it did not work any better unfortunately. I had a really nice experience with the other product that has way less amount of rutin. However it lost its efficacy over time and I began to take this other product right after finishing the other one, so drug resistance have probably developed by that time.

Alpha lipoic acid (ALA) [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I mostly took 1 capsule before going to bed. I think it was a little beneficial, but not as much as R-lipoic acid.

Nasal drops 1 [ingredients: rapeseed sterols, sunflower seed oil, apricot kernel oil PEG-6 esters, silver fir needle oil, tea tree leaf oil, manuka branch/leaf oil, rosemary leaf extract, tocopherol, linalool, limonene]: I have never used such a product before, but this one was quite nice. My nose tends to be dry and a little bit inflamed, which can also inhibit the breathing making it shallow and a bit forced. That is why I wash it with warm water on a daily basis. However when the nostril is inflamed and painful, this does not necessarily help. At such an occasion I began to apply this drops and the inflammation really went down by next day and the nose felt more relaxed and smooth. Thus it is clearly effective on rhinitis if nothing else. Later I used it more frequently and while it clearly helps with rhinitis, when POIS is bad the nasal irritation is so bad, that this can only ameliorate the problem, but it can’t overcome the painful itching.

Eye drops for allergy 1 [0.15% sodium hyaluronate and 2% ectoine]: I have already used eye drops in the past, but this time I wasn’t so critical about it. Thus I can say that this one has some benefit, though at acute POIS it can’t prevent the emergence of bloodshot eyes. It can temporarily help with eye dryness, which used at a critical time may ameliorate deterioration. Dry eyes are mostly a night problem for me and treating it at times makes sleeping easier, especially if I need to resleep during the night.

Eye drops for eye redness 2 [Composition: marigold extract, chamomile extract, fennel extract and other components]: This one was a little disappointing. It is more liquid than the other one and if I miss the eye I can’t rub it in there as with the previous product. I also could not see a particular improvement in bloodshotness even when I applied it successfully. It is probably a little useful, given the herbs, but it simply can’t handle the power of POIS.

Pomegranate fruit (raw): When eating half the seeds and juice of an apple it has a better effectiveness than the extract caps. It makes my eyes really clear. It also has an anti-depressive effect at the peak of effectiveness. I did not eat it continuously to see if there is a development of resistance. I also ate smaller slices of peel a few times, but I don’t think it was as effective as the inner part. Clearly it goes in the best category.

Echinacea (Echinacea purpurea aerial parts) [400 mg per capsule; Rd:1-3]: It seemed to have a noticeable anti-inflammatory effect, which wasn’t too strong, but still apparent. I began to take one in a daily manner, sometimes two, however after several days I noticed that my libido was very low, even when watching porn. I stopped taking it thereafter. I am not perfectly sure if it was due to this, but something similar happened in the past with another Echinacea product. I am rather sure that this could be a good testing choice for those who deal with irresistible sexual urges. The only contradictory fact may be that echinacosides in Cistanche should contribute to its testosterone and DHT boosting effect, though some other compounds may override this benefit.

P-5-P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) [20 mg coenzymated vitamin B6 per capsule (1176%); Rd:1]: On the first test day I took 2 caps, but later only one. My first experience was positive as it seemed to have about a moderate anti-inflammatory effect on gut issues. Furthermore it did not cause any bloodshot eyes, that I suspect regular vit. B6 does, which is good thing. It wasn’t particularly effective otherwise. Later I took daily 1 capsule, but then I read that it may cause shoulder pain that I have been suffering from for weeks now, so I stopped after half a box for the time being. I was rather sure that the shoulder pain is a side-effect of one of the supplements, but I am taking so many that I can’t stop with all of them and the pain was more like an inconvenience and not serious, though I became unable to do any push-ups due to it. The shoulder pain has not abated even after a month, so it is probably not the P-5-P.

E-400 (vitamin E) [180.2 mg (400 IU - 721%) as dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate in 1 softgel capsule; Rd:1]: I took two per day. It was pretty clear even on the first day that it is useful. Around the peak hours I felt generally better. The eyes appeared more stable and even gut issues felt improved. I can’t say it had resolved all of my problems, but I felt that I regained the inner warmth that I usually lack in acute POIS. Also in the test days I dreamed quite a lot, which hardly ever happens otherwise, as the inflammation knocks me out. Earlier I was hesitant about vitamin E, as it was found that it can contribute to cancer development. The probable reason is that it protects even cancer cells against the body’s oxidative elimination. I guess in my case the oxidative stress is so rampant, that I should be more worried about that, thus taking a high dose of vitamin E is probably a necessity, though it is still not recommended to go over 1500% of the reference value as other side-effects could also occur. By taking 1 regularly it still feels to help a little, however its efficacy also seems to be lowered.

Chyawanprash 1 (Everest Ayurveda) [Amla, Haritaki, Bibhitaki, Andrographis, Green cardamom, Tribulus, Licorice, Gotu kola, Asparagus, Shatavari, Ashwagandha, common grape vine, sandalwood, white turmeric, nutmeg, cumin, guduchi/giloy, Ceylon cinnamon, clove, tulsi/holy basil, elecampane, kudzu vine, long pepper, camphorwood, lemon grass, valeriana, ghee, honey, palm syrup; Rd: 2-3 teaspoon (5 g/tsp)]: I took with 3 teaspoon (separately) on a day and had an O. This really kept my eyes clearer and I even felt a little better. It shows the most benefit around 6 hours after intake as usual than the benefit slowly dissipates in a few hours. Taking only one teaspoon doesn’t help that much, but on two occasions I took with 2 teaspoons at once before going to sleep. At both times 6 hours later I would wake up and feel really well. Unfortunately this would also prohibit me from sleeping back and then the benefit would decrease in a few hours, but the impact is clear and my general state would be still better than without any treatment. This one clearly goes in the best category even if it doesn’t solve everything. Sometimes I may try consuming 6 teaspoons in a day, as it may give a better result, though I fear continued usage would similarly dwindle efficacy as with everything else. By the way I think it is best consumed by putting it in warm water or mixing into a yogurt. In its natural state it just tastes too concentrated.
 
Mg-taurate [620 mg per capsule containing 49.67 mg organic magnesium; Rd: 3]: I took 3 in one day and 1 on some others. I think it induces bloodshot eyes to a lower degree. At the same time I could not see any particular benefit, even after sleeping, thus unlike with Mg-citrate.

Chasteberry fruit (Vitex agnus-castus) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took two per day. This was really good. I took it for a few days, but then I suspended it as I want to test other things as well. It had a really nice anti-depressive effect that I could experience on several occasions. Other symptoms were also somewhat better, though I am not sure if it is a good idea to take it long term.

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: Progecitor on March 01, 2025, 06:27:57 AM

Here are some of my experience with new supplements that I have tried recently. The post would be too long if I put it here in the conventional form, so I enclosed the details in a text file. This way it is not searchable on the forum, so the list items serve as keywords. I also provided the approximate benefit in parentheses. Of course this is mostly a subjective experience and even the best elements don’t eliminate POIS. It only means that the supplement has an evident benefit on symptoms. Most of these are based on one day trials, which may not count representative. However my general experience with supplements is that they work the best on the first few days and then their efficacy get greatly reduced. Thus a longer test would mean worse scores rather than better, though there may be some exceptions.

The short list of the supplements I have tried so far can be found here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40769#msg40769

I added some new items to the diet list as well:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3798.msg40400#msg40400

The current list:
Benfotiamine 1 (good), Benfotiamine 2 (moderate-good), Ener-C (moderate), ATP (weak), Nivea Naturally Good shower gel, Fenugreek leaf tea (weak), Mangosteen (moderate), L-arginine (moderate, se), Ultra man (weak-moderate, se), Rutin (good), L-carnosine (best), Zinc citrate (best), St John’s wort (good), Beeswax Honey (weak), Dextromethorphan/DXM (best), Choline/Inositol (weak), N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (weak), Chyavanaprasha 2 (best), Devil's claw (good), Pregnenolone and DHEA combination (weak-moderate), Propolis (weak), HMB 2250 (mixed?), Potassium citrate (weak), Drena Flux (best), Red clover honey (weak-moderate), Peppermint oil (moderate), Cranberry extract (mixed), Zinc picolinate (best), L-carnosine+Kola nut/Catuaba/Guarana (caffeine)+vitamin E, Guaifenesin syrup (weak-moderate), Naphazoline eye drops (best), Sea-buckthorn (good), Hawthorn extract (good), Evening primrose 2 (best), Sulforaphane (moderate), Caffeine capsules (best), Horny goat weed/maca (best), Idebenone (weak-moderate), Sunflower lecithin (moderate-good), Azelastine eye drops (weak-moderate), Spermidine (moderate-good), Cordyceps (best), Immune Aid (best), Pro-erection capsules (best), Cystone (weak), Brewer’s Yeast (good), Nattokinase enzyme (moderate-good), Hordenine (weak), Aronia tincture (weak), Ahiflower seed oil (moderate), Urinogenitary apparatus support caps 3 (moderate), Muira puama extract syrup (good), Extra virgin olive oil (weak-moderate), Arjuna tea (weak-moderate), Asthiprash jam (moderate), Chaga extract powder (good), Yohimbine and Rauwolscine (best), Vanadyl sulfate (weak), Black poplar buds tea (moderate-good), Shukraprash jam (moderate), Mutraprash jam (moderate-good), Citicoline (weak), Nasal drops 2 (with phenylephrine), “Hero Power” maca complex (best), Celery seeds tea (good), Cleavers tea (moderate), L-Proline (good, se), Prenoxdiazine hydrochloride (weak-moderate), Star anise tea (moderate), Cowslip primrose root tea (moderate), Saffron extract (good), Spiny restharrow tea (moderate), German bearded iris tea (weak-moderate), Bearberry tea (weak-moderate), Nasal drops 3 (with oxymetazoline), Cherry stalks tea (moderate), Fluvoxamine (best, se), Lime leaves tea (weak-moderate), Lemon grass powder (moderate)

Title: Re: Progecitor's summary
Post by: demografx on March 01, 2025, 06:53:28 PM

Quote from: Progecitor on March 01, 2025, 06:27:57 AM

…The post would be too long…so…the details [are] in a text file…

Many thanks, Progecitor!