Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => Hormonal Causes and Treatments => Topic started by: Nas on September 12, 2019, 03:50:47 PM
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Hey guys,
So I've been in this forum for almost five years and I've read many posts around here for so many different theories and different treatments based on these theories. It's suffice to say non of them worked for me. I've tried Niacine, Quantum's stack, Nanna's stack, Mestinon, NSAID's, anti-histamine's, etc. All amounted to nothing, not even a slight improvements.
So over time I went back and forth on possible theories and explanations of POIS. But the theory that made most sense for me, is the dopamine theory. Since my symptoms revolved around cognitive symptoms, social withdrawal, apathy and psychological symptoms, with very little if no physical symptoms. There is little better to explain my symptoms other neurotransmitter deficiency.
So I tried many treatments to tackle that, but it also was very difficult to actually tackle the dopamine receptors since in order for you to increase dopamine neurotransmittion you have two ways: 1- dopamine agonism 2- dopamine supplementation.
The first method is very difficult, it depends on taking psychoactive drugs, most of these psychoactive drugs are illegal due to their abuse potential, and other agonists that are legal are too weak to be effective enough. For example member Iwillbeatthis told me that he took bupropion which helped for a while but couldn't even treat a Nocturnal Emission situation. Another medical student in Syria told me that bupropion helps very little. I took personally bromocriptine which is most effective on the D1, D5 receptor yet it also did very little.
The second method is less difficult yet less effective, I basically went to the dopamine metabolism wiki page and traced dopamine all the way to the closes hormone before reaching dopamine itself. I at the beginning tried L-Tyrosine, it helps a bit but not that much. Then I tried L-Dopa (mucuna supplement), it did nothing. The problem with supplements is that they are too weak, and they usually struggle to reach beyond the Blood-Brain barrier. So the last possible way to get dopamine itself is to take the levodopa medication, which is the pure form of L-dopa, which it self is the pre-metabolic form of dopamine.
Long story short, I took Seinmet which is levodopa 250mg and Crbidopa 50mg and voila it worked. It made me more concentrated, more motivated, ended the sleeping problems and reduced time to heal. It was less effective on speech slur, memory and concentration (basically cognitive symptoms) and social withdrawal. But time to heal is lessened.
Note that it says remedy and not a treatment, levodopa didn't just bring me back to child hood days where I was fully functional and social, nor will it be equal to two weeks of celibacy. But it works; it helps a bit and for someone who found no remedy for this god forsaken illness this is a step forward.
PS: Take Levodopa with an anti-emetic (if you don't want to throw up) and B6 to enhance its metabolism into dopamine.
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I'm glad you finally found something that helps!
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I'm glad you finally found something that helps!
Yeah man, been trying to contact you on the DM's but you no answer.
Try levodopa, it helps a lot!!
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10 years ago I told with my doctor the possibilty to try levodopa.
But I fear side effects of all meds.
I never took any recreative drugs but I always said I'm curious to know if cocaine may helps my Pois or not. But too dangerous...
I've tried "natural" dopa/lvdopa like fava beans or blackcurrant juice without success.
I'm happy to see the med helps you, very good job.
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Be carreful with B6 : in a correct dosage it helps dopamine synthesis but if excessive amount , the effect is the opposite !
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Thanks b_jim I'm well aware of the b6 dosage. I'm actually just taking levodopa alone without b6 but I'll also get it in the future.
I'm also very curious about recreational drugs, you live in France no? Maybe look for legal recreational drugs that target dopamine and see if they have any effect.
I also want more people to try levodopa to see if it works for everyone and not just me.
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b_jim, many years ago I don’t know if u remember, I mentioned your POIS dopamine theory to my psychiatrist and he said, if that’s true, cocaine might work.
BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS (AND VERY ILLEGAL)
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Thanks b_jim I'm well aware of the b6 dosage. I'm actually just taking levodopa alone without b6 but I'll also get it in the future.
I'm also very curious about recreational drugs, you live in France no? Maybe look for legal recreational drugs that target dopamine and see if they have any effect.
I also want more people to try levodopa to see if it works for everyone and not just me.
:D There are few legalized recreative drugs in France.
Some years ago, a specific dopaminergic anti-depressant called amineptine. But it's forbidden now (too dangerous).
The risks to destroy liver with drugs are too big. Years after years I consider my sexual life lost and I prefer to keep my other organs in good shape :)
But I alway search natural ways.
Levodopa appears to be non-toxic in long term. I'm happy it works for you.
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b_jim, many years ago I don’t know if u remember, I mentioned your POIS dopamine theory to my psychiatrist and he said, if that’s true, cocaine might work.
BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS (AND VERY ILLEGAL)
It's possible that cocaine INCREASES Pois if it depletes dopamine cofactors too. Or decrease if it helps dopamine levels. For science, for the Pois knowledge I would like to test, but I'm not brave enough !
Drugs is a exciting science. But I never be tenpted to "play" with my brain.
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I feel the same way, b_jim
I just recently watched a documentary program that showed some very interesting “brain desensitization” methods possible with LSD.
But, like you, I’m too afraid to “play with my brain”!
Thanks again.
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I'd honestly try cocaine if I had access to it because just like what b_jim said, it could either treat POIS or actually CAUSE POIS. Which would tell us a lot about the nature of POIS. If it causes POIS it could be in line with why smoking cigarettes causes POIS for me. It would be anecdotal evidence of the dopamine depletion theory.
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• It's possible that cocaine INCREASES Pois if it depletes dopamine cofactors too.
• Or decrease [POIS] if it helps dopamine levels.
Interesting!
I would like to test, but I'm not brave enough !
Me, neither :)
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Whan I was a teenager, I had sometimes several ejaculations a day (especially at saturday, to keep the sunday for recover my energy).
Clearly after several ejaculations I had uncontrolled head movements.
Exactly the same symptom my father has now (he has Parkinson's symptoms and take levodopa)...
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God it feels good to be functioning socially when you're on the third day of POIS! sometimes I feel that it takes me at least 5 days so I can somewhat function socially after an orgasm.
Still I'm quite beat down compared to other people; have a tendency to stay silent, speech slurring a lot, unconfident about saying stuff, etc.
The spiral that this illness leads you is so vicious.
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Does your mother have allergies or allergic like symptoms Nas?
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Does your mother have allergies or allergic like symptoms Nas?
Nah not really.
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Hypothetically, if you were going to try cocaine to "treat" POIS would it be before O or during a POIS event, or in the window after O before POIS onset?
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have a tendency to stay silent, speech slurring a lot, unconfident about saying stuff, etc.
Do you experience a tight jaw, clenching, etc.? I've noticed that relaxing the jaw can help a lot with speech. It also helps feeling confident. For example, I've noticed that relaxing the jaw continuously makes it a lot easier to look people in the eyes.
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Hypothetically, if you were going to try cocaine to "treat" POIS would it be before O or during a POIS event, or in the window after O before POIS onset?
Interesting question, OpiesDad. If it were me (hypothetically!) I would try it at POIS onset...to reverse the damage that is beginning to creep up on me. Just a guess. When my psychiatrist mentioned it (he was also being hypothetical - not suggesting to do it) I’m not sure he knew for sure either.
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have a tendency to stay silent, speech slurring a lot, unconfident about saying stuff, etc.
Do you experience a tight jaw, clenching, etc.? I've noticed that relaxing the jaw can help a lot with speech. It also helps feeling confident. For example, I've noticed that relaxing the jaw continuously makes it a lot easier to look people in the eyes.
My jaw is fine, what I suffer from is more like impaired cognitive functions. I'm driven into bad connection with people, speech slurring, problem focusing on talking points, forgetfulness etc, compulsively.
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Levodopa is continuing to be a success.
The problem is, though, it is gradual ( not instant relief ), and it is not full relief ( Symptoms are still there but weaker ). Trying this medication came from the idea that we have deficiency in the metabolism of dopamine, and by the gradual but eventual relief of levodopa, it seems that what we suffer from is perhaps deficiency in the production of the Aromatic L-amino Acid Decarboxylase (AAAD).
AAAD deficiency is a genetic disease that is documented in the medical world. It is known to accompany great developmental delay related to the inability to produce the AAAD enzyme. It accompanies symptoms such as
Hypotonia (floppiness)
Developmental delay
Oculogyric crises
Difficulty with initiating and controlling movements
Dystonia and dyskinesia
Gastointestinal dysmotility which can present at as vomiting, gastro-oesophageal reflux, diarrhoea and/or constipation
Autonomic symptoms including difficulties controlling temperature and blood sugar, excessive sweating and nasal congestion
These issues are not present for me. They could be some of the symptoms other people suffer here from but we can't say for sure.
What is present however are low dopamine and serotonin symptoms in the central nervous system.
But we should also note that I suffered from non of this nonsense when I was a kid. In fact I remember my first masturbation sessions to be completely harmless. But I guess as I started to masturbate to porn, high levels of dopamine and serotonin started to be produced; more than my body could have time to replenish, thus developing POIS for me at such a young age.
This is a compelling theory for now and I urge everyone to try levodopa ( with medical supervision ) to see how the drug affects them.
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The medical student from Syria I talk to also reported 70% improvement with levodopa.
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Funny how we're coming full circle to the original hypothesis. All the nofappers think they have a dopamine issue too.
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uhtred sonof, member b_jim formulated a POIS dopamine theory at this forum in 2007!!!
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One point is catecholamines (like dopamine) are present in human seminal plasma and might be loss by ejaculation. In the same time, lot of dopamine is released during orgasm. Which it make a "double" usage of dopamine.
The second point is the effect of dopamine depletion, showed by scientific study :
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/dopamine-and-addiction/subjective-experiences-during-dopamine-depletion-2005/
Mr. A was a healthy, extraverted, very well functioning 21-year-old medical student without even minor psychological difficulties or psychiatric disorders in his family. His Global Assessment of Functioning Scale score was 97. Written informed consent was obtained from Mr. A. We will describe the spontaneous reported subjective experiences after he started the first dose of 750 mg AMPT at t=0 hours (1).
After 7 hours, Mr. A felt more distance between himself and his environment. Stimuli had less impact; visual and audible stimuli were less sharp. He experienced a loss of motivation and tiredness. After 18 hours, he had difficulty waking up and increasing tiredness; environmental stimuli seemed dull. He had less fluency of speech. After 20 hours, he felt confused. He felt tense before his appointment and had an urge to check his watch in an obsessive way.
After 24 hours, Mr. A had inner restlessness, flight of ideas; his ideas seemed inflicted, and he could not remember them. He felt a loss of control over his ideas. After 28 hours, he felt ashamed, frightened, anxious, and depressed. He was afraid that the situation would continue. At that time, blepharospasm, mask face, and tremor were noted. After 30 hours, he was tired and slept 11 hours. After 42 hours, he had poor concentration. In the next hours, he returned to normal
Testosterone being dopamine-related, this might explain why some guys got Pois after 40+ years when testosterone starts to decrease.
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How is your experience after 3 months?
Asking because Levodopa usually causes tolerance after a few months (in Parkinson patients)
You may want to make sure your brain dopamine/serotonin ratio not change too much, as levodopa competes with 5htp/tryptophan when crossing brain-blood barrier.
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I'm not taking Levodopa currently, I only use it when POIS is too intolerable. I'm thinking of incorporating it with the stack under reduced dosages.
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I took L-dopa and it was life changing. I finally felt normal. Maybe a little better than normal. And not in a 'covering up symptoms' way like almost every other drug has done. The issue is it lasted for less than a month. I've tried it on and off again for years and it never worked like it did when i first tried it.
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That is called my friend 'tolerance'. I have heard that to happen with all dopaminergic drugs including Vyvanse (an amphetamine pro-drug). I think one has to figure out, what is causing the drugs effect to fade off. In my case, I found that:
a) taking a small dose of Iron Carbonyl, 8mg (i.e. 50% of Daily Value) every day makes Vyvanse very smooth.
b) on-and-off taking N-Acetyl Cysteine at night time. It forces L-Dopa to get flushed from your system. Vyvanse has a tendency to build-up in your system and NAC in my experience flushes it all away, re-setting your brain.
c) once a week, or occasionally Niacin 100 to 200mg at night.
d) once a week, Vitamin C megadosing at night, say 1000mg.
As always consult with your doc, this is just what worked for me.
I took L-dopa and it was life changing. I finally felt normal. Maybe a little better than normal. And not in a 'covering up symptoms' way like almost every other drug has done. The issue is it lasted for less than a month. I've tried it on and off again for years and it never worked like it did when i first tried it.